Re: Question about RNY vs. DS

[Guest guest]

One of the best posts I have ever read

Dan

>

> In a message dated 8/15/01 5:57:44 AM, duodenalswitch@y... writes:

>

> << It is an easy way out if you dont have

>

> the discipline to go with the RNY but you are taking a chance.If I

have the

>

> DS and eat what I want I would be dead in twenty years with all the

fat and

>

> sugar that most obese people consume.I want tpo be normal and eat

right like

>

> I have tought my family.This is just the conclusion that I came to

while I

>

> did my research.If the DS were a procedure with more history I

might have

>

> gone that route. I want to teach myself to eat again.This time I

know what is

>

> good and bad. I dont want food to control me as it has.I want to be

able to

>

> refrain.If we can eat what want we still have a problem.Thats like

drinking

>

> neer beer if your an alcoholic or smoking light ciggarettes instead

of normal

>

> strength. Again that is my opinion. >>

>

> : I think you have made the correct choice for you, too.

I've found

> that there is a certain mentality that will be attracted to the

stricter

> limitations of an RNY (fear of having food 'control' you post-op,

the need

> for a surgery that will 'force' one to eat right -- although I

disagree that

> the RNY really has the power to do this in many cases) just as

there is a

> certain mentality that is more attracted to the DS.

>

> I do not think that we lack 'willpower' or 'discipline' when we

choose the DS

> anymore than I think people have more willpower or discipline who

have the

> RNY. I think the statement about the possibility dying from high

fat and

> sugar consumption as a post-op DS is extremely inaccurate. In

fact, one

> would be more apt to have higher fat storage in an RNY! LOL The

fat one

> eats with the DS is mostly NOT absorbed -- so it passes OUT of the

system.

> Fat is NOT an issue with the DS. Sugar, on the other hand, *can

be*, but

> there is no guarantee that sugar will NOT be an issue with an RNY.

NOT

> everyone dumps and the dumping effect MAY NOT be permanant.

>

> It is so interesting to me that these surgeries are often not

evaluated

> merely on their physical benefits (I think there are benefits to

both but I

> am certainly biased towards the DS) but that there is such a strong

emotional

> component involved. From my experience, it seems that most RNY

folk view

> their obesity as a severe addiction which must require external

force to

> control (i.e. - the dumping syndrome). It must also involve some

pain,

> sacrifice and challenge in order for one to prove that they have

developed

> proper 'self control' and 'willpower'. In other words, I think

many RNY folk

> are drawn to the surgery on an emotional level more than a factual

level.

> Certainly some choose the RNY for physical reasons --- they don't

want a

> malapsorptive/distal surgery, they have colon problems/disease that

might

> make the RNY more attractive, etc. But, most of the reasons I hear

are

> purely emotional --- They involve issues of control (or lack

thereof), fear

> of the power of food and it's role in the person's life and a

strong, strong

> desire to be 'regulated' or 'put on the right track'.

>

> On the other hand, most DS folk are attracted by the physical,

factual

> aspects of the surgery and the post-op lifestyle it allows. I know

there are

> emotional issues for us, too --- Mainly we do NOT want food to

control us

> anymore but feel that WE are in control of it with the surgery to

the large

> degree. We don't need or want an external force 'pushing us' to

eat or

> behave properly. We mainly want to be 'normal' again. What a sigh

of relief

> when we can eat a decent portion, feel full and satisfied and live

without

> food and hunger being so central to our lives! We are sick of the

> 'discipline' required on strict diet regimines (that never got us

anywhere

> anyway). What normal person deals with such discipline issues in

their

> everyday lives? Only fat people who are so 'out of control' always

question

> their lack of control (and constantly faced by others questioning

it).

>

> We love to discuss medical issues in depth and I think, on the

whole, are

> very intelligent and informed. We may be a bit on the aggressive,

> independent side, too as personalities go. LOL But, with this

*may come* a

> certain downplaying of emotional issues, perhaps? I mean, we will

discuss

> and debate but when emotional issues come up perhaps some of us are

> challenged or uncomfortable in some ways... I'm not saying this is

true for

> EVERYONE by any means but perhaps we tend to think that our obesity

is mainly

> a physical problem and don't always address or are prepared for the

various

> emotional issues that can come up as post-ops. I mean, our

emotional issues

> are RELATED to being obese but not necessarily center around eating

and food

> per se. Does that make sense?

>

> All the best,

>

> lap ds with gallbladder removal

> January 25, 2001

> Dr. Gagner/Mt. Sinai/NYC

>

> six months post-op and still feelin' fabu!

>

> pre-oP: 307 lbs/bmi 45

> now: 229

[Guest guest]

One of the best posts I have ever read

Dan

>

> In a message dated 8/15/01 5:57:44 AM, duodenalswitch@y... writes:

>

> << It is an easy way out if you dont have

>

> the discipline to go with the RNY but you are taking a chance.If I

have the

>

> DS and eat what I want I would be dead in twenty years with all the

fat and

>

> sugar that most obese people consume.I want tpo be normal and eat

right like

>

> I have tought my family.This is just the conclusion that I came to

while I

>

> did my research.If the DS were a procedure with more history I

might have

>

> gone that route. I want to teach myself to eat again.This time I

know what is

>

> good and bad. I dont want food to control me as it has.I want to be

able to

>

> refrain.If we can eat what want we still have a problem.Thats like

drinking

>

> neer beer if your an alcoholic or smoking light ciggarettes instead

of normal

>

> strength. Again that is my opinion. >>

>

> : I think you have made the correct choice for you, too.

I've found

> that there is a certain mentality that will be attracted to the

stricter

> limitations of an RNY (fear of having food 'control' you post-op,

the need

> for a surgery that will 'force' one to eat right -- although I

disagree that

> the RNY really has the power to do this in many cases) just as

there is a

> certain mentality that is more attracted to the DS.

>

> I do not think that we lack 'willpower' or 'discipline' when we

choose the DS

> anymore than I think people have more willpower or discipline who

have the

> RNY. I think the statement about the possibility dying from high

fat and

> sugar consumption as a post-op DS is extremely inaccurate. In

fact, one

> would be more apt to have higher fat storage in an RNY! LOL The

fat one

> eats with the DS is mostly NOT absorbed -- so it passes OUT of the

system.

> Fat is NOT an issue with the DS. Sugar, on the other hand, *can

be*, but

> there is no guarantee that sugar will NOT be an issue with an RNY.

NOT

> everyone dumps and the dumping effect MAY NOT be permanant.

>

> It is so interesting to me that these surgeries are often not

evaluated

> merely on their physical benefits (I think there are benefits to

both but I

> am certainly biased towards the DS) but that there is such a strong

emotional

> component involved. From my experience, it seems that most RNY

folk view

> their obesity as a severe addiction which must require external

force to

> control (i.e. - the dumping syndrome). It must also involve some

pain,

> sacrifice and challenge in order for one to prove that they have

developed

> proper 'self control' and 'willpower'. In other words, I think

many RNY folk

> are drawn to the surgery on an emotional level more than a factual

level.

> Certainly some choose the RNY for physical reasons --- they don't

want a

> malapsorptive/distal surgery, they have colon problems/disease that

might

> make the RNY more attractive, etc. But, most of the reasons I hear

are

> purely emotional --- They involve issues of control (or lack

thereof), fear

> of the power of food and it's role in the person's life and a

strong, strong

> desire to be 'regulated' or 'put on the right track'.

>

> On the other hand, most DS folk are attracted by the physical,

factual

> aspects of the surgery and the post-op lifestyle it allows. I know

there are

> emotional issues for us, too --- Mainly we do NOT want food to

control us

> anymore but feel that WE are in control of it with the surgery to

the large

> degree. We don't need or want an external force 'pushing us' to

eat or

> behave properly. We mainly want to be 'normal' again. What a sigh

of relief

> when we can eat a decent portion, feel full and satisfied and live

without

> food and hunger being so central to our lives! We are sick of the

> 'discipline' required on strict diet regimines (that never got us

anywhere

> anyway). What normal person deals with such discipline issues in

their

> everyday lives? Only fat people who are so 'out of control' always

question

> their lack of control (and constantly faced by others questioning

it).

>

> We love to discuss medical issues in depth and I think, on the

whole, are

> very intelligent and informed. We may be a bit on the aggressive,

> independent side, too as personalities go. LOL But, with this

*may come* a

> certain downplaying of emotional issues, perhaps? I mean, we will

discuss

> and debate but when emotional issues come up perhaps some of us are

> challenged or uncomfortable in some ways... I'm not saying this is

true for

> EVERYONE by any means but perhaps we tend to think that our obesity

is mainly

> a physical problem and don't always address or are prepared for the

various

> emotional issues that can come up as post-ops. I mean, our

emotional issues

> are RELATED to being obese but not necessarily center around eating

and food

> per se. Does that make sense?

>

> All the best,

>

> lap ds with gallbladder removal

> January 25, 2001

> Dr. Gagner/Mt. Sinai/NYC

>

> six months post-op and still feelin' fabu!

>

> pre-oP: 307 lbs/bmi 45

> now: 229

[Guest guest]

,

I don't know why, but I always feel soooo good after I read your appends,

and I

just wanted to take a minute to thank you for the time you take. As a

pre-op, it

means a lot to me.

Bye,

Donna

ruisha@...

To: duodenalswitch

08/15/2001 cc:

09:38 AM Subject: Re: Re:

Question about RNY vs. DS

Please respond

to

duodenalswitch

In a message dated 8/15/01 5:57:44 AM, duodenalswitch

writes:

<< It is an easy way out if you dont have

the discipline to go with the RNY but you are taking a chance.If I have the

DS and eat what I want I would be dead in twenty years with all the fat and

sugar that most obese people consume.I want tpo be normal and eat right

like

I have tought my family.This is just the conclusion that I came to while I

did my research.If the DS were a procedure with more history I might have

gone that route. I want to teach myself to eat again.This time I know what

is

good and bad. I dont want food to control me as it has.I want to be able to

refrain.If we can eat what want we still have a problem.Thats like drinking

neer beer if your an alcoholic or smoking light ciggarettes instead of

normal

strength. Again that is my opinion. >>

: I think you have made the correct choice for you, too. I've found

that there is a certain mentality that will be attracted to the stricter

limitations of an RNY (fear of having food 'control' you post-op, the need

for a surgery that will 'force' one to eat right -- although I disagree

that

the RNY really has the power to do this in many cases) just as there is a

certain mentality that is more attracted to the DS.

I do not think that we lack 'willpower' or 'discipline' when we choose the

DS

anymore than I think people have more willpower or discipline who have the

RNY. I think the statement about the possibility dying from high fat and

sugar consumption as a post-op DS is extremely inaccurate. In fact, one

would be more apt to have higher fat storage in an RNY! LOL The fat one

eats with the DS is mostly NOT absorbed -- so it passes OUT of the system.

Fat is NOT an issue with the DS. Sugar, on the other hand, *can be*, but

there is no guarantee that sugar will NOT be an issue with an RNY. NOT

everyone dumps and the dumping effect MAY NOT be permanant.

It is so interesting to me that these surgeries are often not evaluated

merely on their physical benefits (I think there are benefits to both but I

am certainly biased towards the DS) but that there is such a strong

emotional

component involved. From my experience, it seems that most RNY folk view

their obesity as a severe addiction which must require external force to

control (i.e. - the dumping syndrome). It must also involve some pain,

sacrifice and challenge in order for one to prove that they have developed

proper 'self control' and 'willpower'. In other words, I think many RNY

folk

are drawn to the surgery on an emotional level more than a factual level.

Certainly some choose the RNY for physical reasons --- they don't want a

malapsorptive/distal surgery, they have colon problems/disease that might

make the RNY more attractive, etc. But, most of the reasons I hear are

purely emotional --- They involve issues of control (or lack thereof), fear

of the power of food and it's role in the person's life and a strong,

strong

desire to be 'regulated' or 'put on the right track'.

On the other hand, most DS folk are attracted by the physical, factual

aspects of the surgery and the post-op lifestyle it allows. I know there

are

emotional issues for us, too --- Mainly we do NOT want food to control us

anymore but feel that WE are in control of it with the surgery to the large

degree. We don't need or want an external force 'pushing us' to eat or

behave properly. We mainly want to be 'normal' again. What a sigh of

relief

when we can eat a decent portion, feel full and satisfied and live without

food and hunger being so central to our lives! We are sick of the

'discipline' required on strict diet regimines (that never got us anywhere

anyway). What normal person deals with such discipline issues in their

everyday lives? Only fat people who are so 'out of control' always

question

their lack of control (and constantly faced by others questioning it).

We love to discuss medical issues in depth and I think, on the whole, are

very intelligent and informed. We may be a bit on the aggressive,

independent side, too as personalities go. LOL But, with this *may come*

a

certain downplaying of emotional issues, perhaps? I mean, we will discuss

and debate but when emotional issues come up perhaps some of us are

challenged or uncomfortable in some ways... I'm not saying this is true for

EVERYONE by any means but perhaps we tend to think that our obesity is

mainly

a physical problem and don't always address or are prepared for the various

emotional issues that can come up as post-ops. I mean, our emotional

issues

are RELATED to being obese but not necessarily center around eating and

food

per se. Does that make sense?

All the best,

lap ds with gallbladder removal

January 25, 2001

Dr. Gagner/Mt. Sinai/NYC

six months post-op and still feelin' fabu!

pre-oP: 307 lbs/bmi 45

now: 229

----------------------------------------------------------------------

[Guest guest]

,

I don't know why, but I always feel soooo good after I read your appends,

and I

just wanted to take a minute to thank you for the time you take. As a

pre-op, it

means a lot to me.

Bye,

Donna

ruisha@...

To: duodenalswitch

08/15/2001 cc:

09:38 AM Subject: Re: Re:

Question about RNY vs. DS

Please respond

to

duodenalswitch

In a message dated 8/15/01 5:57:44 AM, duodenalswitch

writes:

<< It is an easy way out if you dont have

the discipline to go with the RNY but you are taking a chance.If I have the

DS and eat what I want I would be dead in twenty years with all the fat and

sugar that most obese people consume.I want tpo be normal and eat right

like

I have tought my family.This is just the conclusion that I came to while I

did my research.If the DS were a procedure with more history I might have

gone that route. I want to teach myself to eat again.This time I know what

is

good and bad. I dont want food to control me as it has.I want to be able to

refrain.If we can eat what want we still have a problem.Thats like drinking

neer beer if your an alcoholic or smoking light ciggarettes instead of

normal

strength. Again that is my opinion. >>

: I think you have made the correct choice for you, too. I've found

that there is a certain mentality that will be attracted to the stricter

limitations of an RNY (fear of having food 'control' you post-op, the need

for a surgery that will 'force' one to eat right -- although I disagree

that

the RNY really has the power to do this in many cases) just as there is a

certain mentality that is more attracted to the DS.

I do not think that we lack 'willpower' or 'discipline' when we choose the

DS

anymore than I think people have more willpower or discipline who have the

RNY. I think the statement about the possibility dying from high fat and

sugar consumption as a post-op DS is extremely inaccurate. In fact, one

would be more apt to have higher fat storage in an RNY! LOL The fat one

eats with the DS is mostly NOT absorbed -- so it passes OUT of the system.

Fat is NOT an issue with the DS. Sugar, on the other hand, *can be*, but

there is no guarantee that sugar will NOT be an issue with an RNY. NOT

everyone dumps and the dumping effect MAY NOT be permanant.

It is so interesting to me that these surgeries are often not evaluated

merely on their physical benefits (I think there are benefits to both but I

am certainly biased towards the DS) but that there is such a strong

emotional

component involved. From my experience, it seems that most RNY folk view

their obesity as a severe addiction which must require external force to

control (i.e. - the dumping syndrome). It must also involve some pain,

sacrifice and challenge in order for one to prove that they have developed

proper 'self control' and 'willpower'. In other words, I think many RNY

folk

are drawn to the surgery on an emotional level more than a factual level.

Certainly some choose the RNY for physical reasons --- they don't want a

malapsorptive/distal surgery, they have colon problems/disease that might

make the RNY more attractive, etc. But, most of the reasons I hear are

purely emotional --- They involve issues of control (or lack thereof), fear

of the power of food and it's role in the person's life and a strong,

strong

desire to be 'regulated' or 'put on the right track'.

On the other hand, most DS folk are attracted by the physical, factual

aspects of the surgery and the post-op lifestyle it allows. I know there

are

emotional issues for us, too --- Mainly we do NOT want food to control us

anymore but feel that WE are in control of it with the surgery to the large

degree. We don't need or want an external force 'pushing us' to eat or

behave properly. We mainly want to be 'normal' again. What a sigh of

relief

when we can eat a decent portion, feel full and satisfied and live without

food and hunger being so central to our lives! We are sick of the

'discipline' required on strict diet regimines (that never got us anywhere

anyway). What normal person deals with such discipline issues in their

everyday lives? Only fat people who are so 'out of control' always

question

their lack of control (and constantly faced by others questioning it).

We love to discuss medical issues in depth and I think, on the whole, are

very intelligent and informed. We may be a bit on the aggressive,

independent side, too as personalities go. LOL But, with this *may come*

a

certain downplaying of emotional issues, perhaps? I mean, we will discuss

and debate but when emotional issues come up perhaps some of us are

challenged or uncomfortable in some ways... I'm not saying this is true for

EVERYONE by any means but perhaps we tend to think that our obesity is

mainly

a physical problem and don't always address or are prepared for the various

emotional issues that can come up as post-ops. I mean, our emotional

issues

are RELATED to being obese but not necessarily center around eating and

food

per se. Does that make sense?

All the best,

lap ds with gallbladder removal

January 25, 2001

Dr. Gagner/Mt. Sinai/NYC

six months post-op and still feelin' fabu!

pre-oP: 307 lbs/bmi 45

now: 229

----------------------------------------------------------------------

[Guest guest]

At 01:220 -0400 8/15/01, shs43bulldog@... wrote:

>There is not

>enough research on it, in my opinion.It is an easy way out if you dont have

>the discipline to go with the RNY but you are taking a chance.If I have the

>DS and eat what I want I would be dead in twenty years with all the fat and

>sugar that most obese people consume.I

I'm glad you made the decision you wanted; it's definitely not the

decision I've made for myself, and I feel confident I will be able to

eat correctly enough to ensure a long, long life with plenty of time

for my grandchildren and greatgrandchildren.

And just for the record, DS/BPD is NOT an easy way out!!! And any

surgical intervention is 'taking a chance.'

Speaking only from my personal experience, those I know who had the

RNY have either regained ALL their weight back within 4 years or else

they are in health trouble due to frequent vomiting, malnourishment,

and other difficulties.

I've read, researched, talked, and asked for over 2 years now and

made my decision to have the DS/BPD based on this information. The

RNY is not for me.

--stella

[Guest guest]

At 01:220 -0400 8/15/01, shs43bulldog@... wrote:

>There is not

>enough research on it, in my opinion.It is an easy way out if you dont have

>the discipline to go with the RNY but you are taking a chance.If I have the

>DS and eat what I want I would be dead in twenty years with all the fat and

>sugar that most obese people consume.I

I'm glad you made the decision you wanted; it's definitely not the

decision I've made for myself, and I feel confident I will be able to

eat correctly enough to ensure a long, long life with plenty of time

for my grandchildren and greatgrandchildren.

And just for the record, DS/BPD is NOT an easy way out!!! And any

surgical intervention is 'taking a chance.'

Speaking only from my personal experience, those I know who had the

RNY have either regained ALL their weight back within 4 years or else

they are in health trouble due to frequent vomiting, malnourishment,

and other difficulties.

I've read, researched, talked, and asked for over 2 years now and

made my decision to have the DS/BPD based on this information. The

RNY is not for me.

--stella

[Guest guest]

Great answer...you hit on alot of the things I feel about the differences in

these surgeries. At least one of us can get it down in writing so it makes

sense...LOL

AJ

ruisha@... wrote:

>

>In a message dated 8/15/01 5:57:44 AM, duodenalswitch writes:

>

><< It is an easy way out if you dont have

>

>the discipline to go with the RNY but you are taking a chance.If I have the

>

>DS and eat what I want I would be dead in twenty years with all the fat and

>

>sugar that most obese people consume.I want tpo be normal and eat right like

>

>I have tought my family.This is just the conclusion that I came to while I

>

>did my research.If the DS were a procedure with more history I might have

>

>gone that route. I want to teach myself to eat again.This time I know what is

>

>good and bad. I dont want food to control me as it has.I want to be able to

>

>refrain.If we can eat what want we still have a problem.Thats like drinking

>

>neer beer if your an alcoholic or smoking light ciggarettes instead of normal

>

>strength. Again that is my opinion. >>

>

>: I think you have made the correct choice for you, too. I've found

>that there is a certain mentality that will be attracted to the stricter

>limitations of an RNY (fear of having food 'control' you post-op, the need

>for a surgery that will 'force' one to eat right -- although I disagree that

>the RNY really has the power to do this in many cases) just as there is a

>certain mentality that is more attracted to the DS.

>

>I do not think that we lack 'willpower' or 'discipline' when we choose the DS

>anymore than I think people have more willpower or discipline who have the

>RNY. I think the statement about the possibility dying from high fat and

>sugar consumption as a post-op DS is extremely inaccurate. In fact, one

>would be more apt to have higher fat storage in an RNY! LOL The fat one

>eats with the DS is mostly NOT absorbed -- so it passes OUT of the system.

>Fat is NOT an issue with the DS. Sugar, on the other hand, *can be*, but

>there is no guarantee that sugar will NOT be an issue with an RNY. NOT

>everyone dumps and the dumping effect MAY NOT be permanant.

>

>It is so interesting to me that these surgeries are often not evaluated

>merely on their physical benefits (I think there are benefits to both but I

>am certainly biased towards the DS) but that there is such a strong emotional

>component involved. From my experience, it seems that most RNY folk view

>their obesity as a severe addiction which must require external force to

>control (i.e. - the dumping syndrome). It must also involve some pain,

>sacrifice and challenge in order for one to prove that they have developed

>proper 'self control' and 'willpower'. In other words, I think many RNY folk

>are drawn to the surgery on an emotional level more than a factual level.

>Certainly some choose the RNY for physical reasons --- they don't want a

>malapsorptive/distal surgery, they have colon problems/disease that might

>make the RNY more attractive, etc. But, most of the reasons I hear are

>purely emotional --- They involve issues of control (or lack thereof), fear

>of the power of food and it's role in the person's life and a strong, strong

>desire to be 'regulated' or 'put on the right track'.

>

>On the other hand, most DS folk are attracted by the physical, factual

>aspects of the surgery and the post-op lifestyle it allows. I know there are

>emotional issues for us, too --- Mainly we do NOT want food to control us

>anymore but feel that WE are in control of it with the surgery to the large

>degree. We don't need or want an external force 'pushing us' to eat or

>behave properly. We mainly want to be 'normal' again. What a sigh of relief

>when we can eat a decent portion, feel full and satisfied and live without

>food and hunger being so central to our lives! We are sick of the

>'discipline' required on strict diet regimines (that never got us anywhere

>anyway). What normal person deals with such discipline issues in their

>everyday lives? Only fat people who are so 'out of control' always question

>their lack of control (and constantly faced by others questioning it).

>

>We love to discuss medical issues in depth and I think, on the whole, are

>very intelligent and informed. We may be a bit on the aggressive,

>independent side, too as personalities go. LOL But, with this *may come* a

>certain downplaying of emotional issues, perhaps? I mean, we will discuss

>and debate but when emotional issues come up perhaps some of us are

>challenged or uncomfortable in some ways... I'm not saying this is true for

>EVERYONE by any means but perhaps we tend to think that our obesity is mainly

>a physical problem and don't always address or are prepared for the various

>emotional issues that can come up as post-ops. I mean, our emotional issues

>are RELATED to being obese but not necessarily center around eating and food

>per se. Does that make sense?

>

>All the best,

>

>lap ds with gallbladder removal

>January 25, 2001

>Dr. Gagner/Mt. Sinai/NYC

>

>six months post-op and still feelin' fabu!

>

>pre-oP: 307 lbs/bmi 45

>now: 229

>

>----------------------------------------------------------------------

>

[Guest guest]

Great answer...you hit on alot of the things I feel about the differences in

these surgeries. At least one of us can get it down in writing so it makes

sense...LOL

AJ

ruisha@... wrote:

>

>In a message dated 8/15/01 5:57:44 AM, duodenalswitch writes:

>

><< It is an easy way out if you dont have

>

>the discipline to go with the RNY but you are taking a chance.If I have the

>

>DS and eat what I want I would be dead in twenty years with all the fat and

>

>sugar that most obese people consume.I want tpo be normal and eat right like

>

>I have tought my family.This is just the conclusion that I came to while I

>

>did my research.If the DS were a procedure with more history I might have

>

>gone that route. I want to teach myself to eat again.This time I know what is

>

>good and bad. I dont want food to control me as it has.I want to be able to

>

>refrain.If we can eat what want we still have a problem.Thats like drinking

>

>neer beer if your an alcoholic or smoking light ciggarettes instead of normal

>

>strength. Again that is my opinion. >>

>

>: I think you have made the correct choice for you, too. I've found

>that there is a certain mentality that will be attracted to the stricter

>limitations of an RNY (fear of having food 'control' you post-op, the need

>for a surgery that will 'force' one to eat right -- although I disagree that

>the RNY really has the power to do this in many cases) just as there is a

>certain mentality that is more attracted to the DS.

>

>I do not think that we lack 'willpower' or 'discipline' when we choose the DS

>anymore than I think people have more willpower or discipline who have the

>RNY. I think the statement about the possibility dying from high fat and

>sugar consumption as a post-op DS is extremely inaccurate. In fact, one

>would be more apt to have higher fat storage in an RNY! LOL The fat one

>eats with the DS is mostly NOT absorbed -- so it passes OUT of the system.

>Fat is NOT an issue with the DS. Sugar, on the other hand, *can be*, but

>there is no guarantee that sugar will NOT be an issue with an RNY. NOT

>everyone dumps and the dumping effect MAY NOT be permanant.

>

>It is so interesting to me that these surgeries are often not evaluated

>merely on their physical benefits (I think there are benefits to both but I

>am certainly biased towards the DS) but that there is such a strong emotional

>component involved. From my experience, it seems that most RNY folk view

>their obesity as a severe addiction which must require external force to

>control (i.e. - the dumping syndrome). It must also involve some pain,

>sacrifice and challenge in order for one to prove that they have developed

>proper 'self control' and 'willpower'. In other words, I think many RNY folk

>are drawn to the surgery on an emotional level more than a factual level.

>Certainly some choose the RNY for physical reasons --- they don't want a

>malapsorptive/distal surgery, they have colon problems/disease that might

>make the RNY more attractive, etc. But, most of the reasons I hear are

>purely emotional --- They involve issues of control (or lack thereof), fear

>of the power of food and it's role in the person's life and a strong, strong

>desire to be 'regulated' or 'put on the right track'.

>

>On the other hand, most DS folk are attracted by the physical, factual

>aspects of the surgery and the post-op lifestyle it allows. I know there are

>emotional issues for us, too --- Mainly we do NOT want food to control us

>anymore but feel that WE are in control of it with the surgery to the large

>degree. We don't need or want an external force 'pushing us' to eat or

>behave properly. We mainly want to be 'normal' again. What a sigh of relief

>when we can eat a decent portion, feel full and satisfied and live without

>food and hunger being so central to our lives! We are sick of the

>'discipline' required on strict diet regimines (that never got us anywhere

>anyway). What normal person deals with such discipline issues in their

>everyday lives? Only fat people who are so 'out of control' always question

>their lack of control (and constantly faced by others questioning it).

>

>We love to discuss medical issues in depth and I think, on the whole, are

>very intelligent and informed. We may be a bit on the aggressive,

>independent side, too as personalities go. LOL But, with this *may come* a

>certain downplaying of emotional issues, perhaps? I mean, we will discuss

>and debate but when emotional issues come up perhaps some of us are

>challenged or uncomfortable in some ways... I'm not saying this is true for

>EVERYONE by any means but perhaps we tend to think that our obesity is mainly

>a physical problem and don't always address or are prepared for the various

>emotional issues that can come up as post-ops. I mean, our emotional issues

>are RELATED to being obese but not necessarily center around eating and food

>per se. Does that make sense?

>

>All the best,

>

>lap ds with gallbladder removal

>January 25, 2001

>Dr. Gagner/Mt. Sinai/NYC

>

>six months post-op and still feelin' fabu!

>

>pre-oP: 307 lbs/bmi 45

>now: 229

>

>----------------------------------------------------------------------

>

[Guest guest]

I have chosen the DS for the many reasons already talked about. So I

have asked myself, what things might I find more attractive about the

RNY (being Devil's advocate).

As I see it the RNY has two distinct advantages over the DS.

#1) It is an easier surgery to perform esp. laprascopically. You can

find many more suregons to do the RNY. Insurance approval is also

easier.

#2) The RNY does not give the foul stool oder and increased bowel

movements of the DS. The RNY does not require the nutritional

followup that the DS requires (though some followup is still

required).

Against these two advantages for the RNY, I see DS as having the

following distinct advantages:

#1) The DS is more effictive than the RNY in terms of long term

weight maintainance. Very few DS patients regain significant weight.

#2) The DS allows relatively normal eating - no dumping, vomiting,

chewing into tiny bites etc.

This is a drastically simplified set of arguments, but I think it

gets the essential point across.

I agree with the previous posts though regarding the emotional

perference that some have for the RNY.

Actually, if you really feel that your obiesity is from a lack of

control and that you should be punished for your lack of control then

try the adjustable band. They can keep tightening it until you

cry " uncle " . What a pefect torture (uh ... I mean weight loss)

device. It will be slow but most effective. Eventually if tightened

enough the victum (.. I mean patient) will start to vomit all solid

foods. Ingenious isn't it. I can't think of a better technique to

keep overweight prisonars (... I mean patients) in line. It sort of

reminds me of a Star Trek episode or something. A collar of

obiedience. LOL

Hull

[Guest guest]

I have chosen the DS for the many reasons already talked about. So I

have asked myself, what things might I find more attractive about the

RNY (being Devil's advocate).

As I see it the RNY has two distinct advantages over the DS.

#1) It is an easier surgery to perform esp. laprascopically. You can

find many more suregons to do the RNY. Insurance approval is also

easier.

#2) The RNY does not give the foul stool oder and increased bowel

movements of the DS. The RNY does not require the nutritional

followup that the DS requires (though some followup is still

required).

Against these two advantages for the RNY, I see DS as having the

following distinct advantages:

#1) The DS is more effictive than the RNY in terms of long term

weight maintainance. Very few DS patients regain significant weight.

#2) The DS allows relatively normal eating - no dumping, vomiting,

chewing into tiny bites etc.

This is a drastically simplified set of arguments, but I think it

gets the essential point across.

I agree with the previous posts though regarding the emotional

perference that some have for the RNY.

Actually, if you really feel that your obiesity is from a lack of

control and that you should be punished for your lack of control then

try the adjustable band. They can keep tightening it until you

cry " uncle " . What a pefect torture (uh ... I mean weight loss)

device. It will be slow but most effective. Eventually if tightened

enough the victum (.. I mean patient) will start to vomit all solid

foods. Ingenious isn't it. I can't think of a better technique to

keep overweight prisonars (... I mean patients) in line. It sort of

reminds me of a Star Trek episode or something. A collar of

obiedience. LOL

Hull

[Guest guest]

This is going to be another 'generic' question relative to DS vs RNY.

I have made the decision to have DS vs RNY for all of the very reasons

that get posted. I would like to ask, however, if there are certain

'patterns'

of eating that are more conducive to success with one procedure

versus the other, i.e., binge eating, comfort eating, etc.

Thanks,

Donna

[Guest guest]

This is going to be another 'generic' question relative to DS vs RNY.

I have made the decision to have DS vs RNY for all of the very reasons

that get posted. I would like to ask, however, if there are certain

'patterns'

of eating that are more conducive to success with one procedure

versus the other, i.e., binge eating, comfort eating, etc.

Thanks,

Donna

[Guest guest]

I think you showed some good benefits on both sides...and I love your

humor...LOL

AJ still laughing

chull1@... wrote:

>I have chosen the DS for the many reasons already talked about. So I

>have asked myself, what things might I find more attractive about the

>RNY (being Devil's advocate).

>

>As I see it the RNY has two distinct advantages over the DS.

>

>#1) It is an easier surgery to perform esp. laprascopically. You can

>find many more suregons to do the RNY. Insurance approval is also

>easier.

>

>#2) The RNY does not give the foul stool oder and increased bowel

>movements of the DS. The RNY does not require the nutritional

>followup that the DS requires (though some followup is still

>required).

>

>Against these two advantages for the RNY, I see DS as having the

>following distinct advantages:

>

>#1) The DS is more effictive than the RNY in terms of long term

>weight maintainance. Very few DS patients regain significant weight.

>

>#2) The DS allows relatively normal eating - no dumping, vomiting,

>chewing into tiny bites etc.

>

>

>This is a drastically simplified set of arguments, but I think it

>gets the essential point across.

>

>I agree with the previous posts though regarding the emotional

>perference that some have for the RNY.

>

>Actually, if you really feel that your obiesity is from a lack of

>control and that you should be punished for your lack of control then

>try the adjustable band. They can keep tightening it until you

>cry " uncle " . What a pefect torture (uh ... I mean weight loss)

>device. It will be slow but most effective. Eventually if tightened

>enough the victum (.. I mean patient) will start to vomit all solid

>foods. Ingenious isn't it. I can't think of a better technique to

>keep overweight prisonars (... I mean patients) in line. It sort of

>reminds me of a Star Trek episode or something. A collar of

>obiedience. LOL

>

>Hull

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>----------------------------------------------------------------------

>

[Guest guest]

Yanno,

My knee-jerk reaction to this thread was, " what an idiot! " I then

tried to be more objective and see the OP's point of view... I started

thinking about why I reacted that way.. and realized it was a learned

response.. picked up from my grandmother.

My gran had no weight problems until later in life, and I now know it

was bad kidneys and edema, not her eating habits(she died of kidney

failure caused by sepsis at age 74). My gran celebrated life and

family, and loved nothing more than fixing up a holiday feast to get

everyone together.. that lady could COOK- her pies were legendary, her

divinity devine.. but was ours a fat family? Nope. Just me and my

mom. And despite what many believed, family members can tell you that

we didn't eat as much as our slender relatives.

My gran worked in the bagging room at Imperial Sugar, from 6am to 6

pm.. she ate dinner after work when she felt like it.. her kids might

eat at 7, as soon as the meal was ready.. but Mamie ate after resting

and drinking a few glasses of iced tea.

Was my gran undisciplined? I doubt it.. she was a single mom during

the depression, raising one son with tuberculosis, one son who had a

wanderlust, and a surprise daughter who was born 10 years after the

youngest boy. She worked long shifts, plus got up early to milk a

jersey cow (the doctor said Uncle needed fresh milk) and bottle &

deliver what they couldn't drink for extra money.. and they didn't

have much. But she believed in celebrating life- her motto might well

have been " LIVE! LIVE! LIVE! " (from the movie Mame), because that's

what she did. She ate when and what she pleased... she did not

understand people who lived their lives like a punishment.. if God had

intended man to be miserable, he wouldn't have given him the potential

for such joy.. and yes.. I think that her attitudes towards life.. and

food.. probably tempered mine. So yeah, I guess my grandma showed me

that the DS is the better choice..

And.. even had I not gotten the DS.. since my cholesterol levels are

genetically predisposed to be low (never yet >150).. I doubt fat was

going to kill me before.. and it definitely won't now <G>. Too bad my

78 lbs-soaking-wet best friend can't say the same.. she says

(jokingly) that just driving by a Mcs sends her cholesterol

level into the 300s...

THANK YOU, MAMIE!!

...just my .02. =)

Liane

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 8/15/01 1:23:35 AM Eastern Daylight Time,

shs43bulldog@... writes:

> We are what we eat and we have arteries who will

> fill up with all the bad things if we put them in. In our old days we will

> need many of the vitamins from the good foods to help us have a common

> bowel

> movement,if we have the DS ,could we lose the nourishment? There is not

> enough research on it, in my opinion.It is an easy way out if you dont have

> the discipline to go with the RNY but you are taking a chance

I am speaking only for myself. I am choosing the duodenal switch and I must

be alot more diligent with this surgery over the RNY. I am lactose

intolerant and extremely sensitive to fatty foods now so with the DS, I will

not be able to go overboard on fat laden foods just because I won't absorb

the fat. In fact, RNY patients can tolerate fatty foods better than we can

but must eat them in smaller portions. They will also absorb more of the

fat. Alot more!

You seem to think that DS'ers can just eat whatever they like whenever they

like, but this is not the case at all. You need to go back and question your

sources of information.

Honestly, I can't believe you just said that the duodenal switch is an easy

way out. I find this extremely insulting and ignorant. I could maybe get

past a comment like that from someone totally ignorant that doesn't have a

major weight problem but coming from someone that needs weight loss surgery

themselves?? I don't think having to maintain a strict regimin of vitamins

and always having to worry about my bowel habits an easy way out. FYI the

reason the RNY is more popular is because, #1, the DS is newer and more

advanced #2 very few surgeons are qualified to do the surgery, #3, it is a

more expensive procedure and sometimes that is a problem for insurance

companies but believe me, it is the wave of the future.

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 8/15/01 1:57:22 PM Eastern Daylight Time,

chull1@... writes:

> They can keep tightening it until you

> cry " uncle " . What a pefect torture (uh ... I mean weight loss)

> device. It will be slow but most effective. Eventually if tightened

> enough the victum (.. I mean patient) will start to vomit all solid

> foods. Ingenious isn't it.

Lol, I think I just peed in my chair!

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 8/15/01 1:57:22 PM Eastern Daylight Time,

chull1@... writes:

> They can keep tightening it until you

> cry " uncle " . What a pefect torture (uh ... I mean weight loss)

> device. It will be slow but most effective. Eventually if tightened

> enough the victum (.. I mean patient) will start to vomit all solid

> foods. Ingenious isn't it.

Lol, I think I just peed in my chair!

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 8/15/01 4:11:17 PM, duodenalswitch writes:

<<

Great answer...you hit on alot of the things I feel about the differences in

these surgeries. At least one of us can get it down in writing so it makes

sense...LOL

>>

Thanks, AJ! I'm not sure how much sense I made but I was hoping someone

would understand what I was trying to express! LOL I've just found a real

difference in outlook between people who have had the two surgeries. I'm

sure this doesn't apply to everyone but it's just that the majority of people

I've spoken to seem to fit this description...

I tell you, I had a fullness incident tonight. We went out to Chinatown

(Camille has a Chinese class there every Wednesday and we meet my dh in the

park and go out to eat, etc.).. I had a wonderful bowl of pork/shrimp wonton

noodle soup. Couldn't finish it b/c I got full. Well, these 'youtiao' ---

literally translated as 'oily sticks' were calling me (it's fried dough and I

dip it in sweet soy milk - yum)... Of course, I had a few pieces. The damn

things EXPANDED in my small tummy! Ouch, ouch, ouch! It was SO

uncomfortable. I've only done this before with cinnamon buns (I wrote about

it on the list earlier - ouch! Talk about food expanding!)... After about 30

minutes I felt better but it was really hellish before that point!

All the best,

lap ds with gallbladder removal

January 25, 2001

Dr. Gagner/Mt. Sinai/NYC

six months post-op and still feelin' fabu!

preop: 307 lbs/bmi 45

now: 228 (I'm at 228 again! Hopefully going down even further... whew...)

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 8/15/01 4:11:17 PM, duodenalswitch writes:

<<

Great answer...you hit on alot of the things I feel about the differences in

these surgeries. At least one of us can get it down in writing so it makes

sense...LOL

>>

Thanks, AJ! I'm not sure how much sense I made but I was hoping someone

would understand what I was trying to express! LOL I've just found a real

difference in outlook between people who have had the two surgeries. I'm

sure this doesn't apply to everyone but it's just that the majority of people

I've spoken to seem to fit this description...

I tell you, I had a fullness incident tonight. We went out to Chinatown

(Camille has a Chinese class there every Wednesday and we meet my dh in the

park and go out to eat, etc.).. I had a wonderful bowl of pork/shrimp wonton

noodle soup. Couldn't finish it b/c I got full. Well, these 'youtiao' ---

literally translated as 'oily sticks' were calling me (it's fried dough and I

dip it in sweet soy milk - yum)... Of course, I had a few pieces. The damn

things EXPANDED in my small tummy! Ouch, ouch, ouch! It was SO

uncomfortable. I've only done this before with cinnamon buns (I wrote about

it on the list earlier - ouch! Talk about food expanding!)... After about 30

minutes I felt better but it was really hellish before that point!

All the best,

lap ds with gallbladder removal

January 25, 2001

Dr. Gagner/Mt. Sinai/NYC

six months post-op and still feelin' fabu!

preop: 307 lbs/bmi 45

now: 228 (I'm at 228 again! Hopefully going down even further... whew...)

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 8/15/01 4:11:17 PM, duodenalswitch writes:

<< I would like to ask, however, if there are certain

'patterns'

of eating that are more conducive to success with one procedure

versus the other, i.e., binge eating, comfort eating, etc.

>>

Donna: This is an interesting question and one that I really don't have the

answer to. I know that most who do choose the RNY *tend to* feel totally out

of control with their eating, so much so that they really find the surgery

that prevents one from eating certain foods (mainly sugar items) in order to

modify their behavior. I think that it can change one's eating habits (but

one has to be mentally prepared for it), but it can also add more problems

down the road. For example, what happens when one dumps initally, says 'I'll

NEVEr eat chocolate again' then feels resentment that one can't even have a

slice of birthday cake and some years down the road discovers that the

dumping is lessened? Maybe they'll 'make up for lost time' by eating the

stuff all over again!

I also think a lot of post-op RNYs really have to deal with loss of food as a

comfort, etc. - perhaps moreso than Dsers because we generally can and do eat

anything (I'm not just talking about sugar here, which we all know can

sabotage ANY surgery, but fried and fatty foods). HOw can one feel satisfied

with such tiny bites of things and have to chew so much? I mean, I know of a

gal who said she had her 'shotglass collection' all lined up and ready for

her RNY post-op life! Sheesh! I'd go crazy if I had to eat out of

shotglasses, even if it was for one year post-op!

Most compulsive sugar eaters think the RNY is better because it can condition

one not to eat sweets. Problem is dumping is NOT guaranteed nor is it always

permanant. Personally, I was a pretty balanced, nutritious eater. Don't get

me wrong, I had my chocolates (now I don't seem to enjoy chocolate HALF as

much as pre-op, either! Weird, eh?), etc. but it wasn't like I binged on

sweets. I ate too much, really. My portions and frequency were astounding.

But, I thought I 'felt hungry' and would be miserable (lightheaded, weak) if

I drastically cut back on the calories. I feel so great now because I can

eat until I'm full, feel totally satisfied and not have that annoying hunger

bothering me. I feel much more balanced.

all the best,

lap ds with gallbladder removal

January 25, 2001

Dr. Gagner/Mt. Sinai/NYC

six months post-op and still feelin' fabu!

pre-op: 307 lbs/bmi 45

now: 228 again! Yahoo!

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 8/15/01 10:11:04 PM Eastern Daylight Time,

jhensel@... writes:

> I have always eaten what I wanted when I wanted and the weight is coming off

> and my labs are excellent!

>

So let's say for example, if you ate some lasagna, a couple bites of sausage

and peppers and some garlic bread, you wouldn't get horrid diarrhea? Tell me

you don't and I will go to bed with a smile on my face!

I'm just thinking out loud here. I wonder how much we really are getting

away with if we eat fat laden foods. I am still pre-op so I have all of the

excitement about eating healthy and trying to stay low fat. According to my

nutritionists handout and Nicolle Siegals from Mt. Sinai, you will slow down

your weight loss if you don't follow their instructions. I don't want to do

anything to hinder my weight loss. I'm worried that my PCOS my slow it down

as it is.

[Guest guest]

Gosh Judi that is so hard for my moridly obese mind to conceive. I guess you

will have to give me a few months to say, hey Judi, you were so right! <g>

Thanks for letting me go to bed happy!

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 8/15/01 6:31:21 PM Pacific Daylight Time, ruisha@...

writes:

> After about 30

> minutes I felt better but it was really hellish before that point!

>

>

I already had that happen..its not fun for sure! I try to think ahead now

when I eat something...but when its good...its hard...LOL

~~* AJ *~~

Post op 7/24/01 Open BPD/DS

self pay - Dr Baltasar -Alcoy Spain

07/24/01 BMI 64 - 415.1

08/06/01 BMI 59 - 390.2 -24.9 lbs!!!!!!!!!!~~~~

Check out the

Bellingham Support for WLS

WWW.WLSBellingham.homestead.com

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 8/15/01 6:31:21 PM Pacific Daylight Time, ruisha@...

writes:

> After about 30

> minutes I felt better but it was really hellish before that point!

>

>

I already had that happen..its not fun for sure! I try to think ahead now

when I eat something...but when its good...its hard...LOL

~~* AJ *~~

Post op 7/24/01 Open BPD/DS

self pay - Dr Baltasar -Alcoy Spain

07/24/01 BMI 64 - 415.1

08/06/01 BMI 59 - 390.2 -24.9 lbs!!!!!!!!!!~~~~

Check out the

Bellingham Support for WLS

WWW.WLSBellingham.homestead.com

[Guest guest]

> HOw can one feel satisfied

> with such tiny bites of things and have to chew so much? I mean, I know

of

> a

> gal who said she had her 'shotglass collection' all lined up and ready for

> her RNY post-op life! Sheesh! I'd go crazy if I had to eat out of

> shotglasses, even if it was for one year post-op!

The thought of it is overwhelmingly depressing. My Endo was the first to

suggest WLS to me, and she only mentioned RNY. I started investigating via

the internet and the more I read the more I knew this was something that I

couldn't live with. Yet I thought I had no choices. It was truly the most

fortunate day of my life when I read the DS website and joined the DS list.

I thought it sounded like some sort of dream. It is. One I'm living, today!

I'm 13 months out as of yesterday. As for eating whatever I please, that's

just what I do. Yesterday I had spaghetti, meatballs, garlic bread. Ribeye

steak, baked potato with butter, salad and ranch dressing. Lunch today was a

chili dog and a few fries. Country fried steak, mashed potatoes, corn and

rolls for dinner. And snacks? I love Fritos, grapes, watermelon, pretzels,

peanuts. If I want it, I eat it.

Michele B., Cols, Ohio

Failed VBG 1986

Revision - Open BPD/DS 7/14/00

Wt 320/175 BMI 50.2/27.4 -145 pounds in 1 year

Dr. P. Maguire, Kettering OH

Self-pay

http://hometown.aol.com/chezmich/index.html