Re: Feingold

[Guest guest]

Hi: My understanding of salicylates and phenols is that phenols are a

subgroup or type of salicylates, so I would think that if you are addressing

the larger issue of salcylates, phenols would already be addressed. Am I

wrong? Thanks for any clarification! Tamara

>From: JoyceW10@...

>Reply-To: GFCFKids

>To: GFCFKids

>Subject: Feingold

>Date: Fri, 23 Mar 2001 16:50:14 EST

>

>we started the Feingold a few times starting sept 2000 and each time saw

>improvement; each time I went off, saw old behaviors. the stricter I am on

>Feingold, but better my son does. But it didn't " cure " everything. This

>Month, 3/2001, we found out about his being Autistic [spectrum] and are

>considering GFCF --- The Feingold my understanding does focus on

>Salicylates, but perhaps we need to think about phenols too?

>have you seen [related but diff topic, www.NeuroImmunDr.com?

>

>

>please just excuse the typos.........

>JoyceW, So Calif, [5y6m old son, divorced, work FT]

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

I thought that salicylates were a natural asprin containing foods and

phenols were the color in foods

Pat in Salem

Feingold

> >Date: Fri, 23 Mar 2001 16:50:14 EST

> >

> >we started the Feingold a few times starting sept 2000 and each time saw

> >improvement; each time I went off, saw old behaviors. the stricter I am

on

> >Feingold, but better my son does. But it didn't " cure " everything.

This

> >Month, 3/2001, we found out about his being Autistic [spectrum] and are

> >considering GFCF --- The Feingold my understanding does focus on

> >Salicylates, but perhaps we need to think about phenols too?

> >have you seen [related but diff topic, www.NeuroImmunDr.com?

> >

> >

> >please just excuse the typos.........

> >JoyceW, So Calif, [5y6m old son, divorced, work FT]

> >

> >

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

>I thought that salicylates were a natural asprin containing foods and

>phenols were the color in foods

>Pat in Salem

> Re: Feingold

>

>

>> Hi: My understanding of salicylates and phenols is that phenols are a

>> subgroup or type of salicylates, so I would think that if you are

>addressing

>> the larger issue of salcylates, phenols would already be addressed. Am I

>> wrong? Thanks for any clarification! Tamara

>>

Tamara, This is a copy of the best explanations I have seen concerning

phenols; It was posted here on the list . . . . If you would like

links to some good salicylate charts, let me know.

BLOCK QUOTE ::

Of all the confusions and misunderstandings around the diet, the issue

of

phenols and salicylates - and which should be avoided - is perhaps the

worst

of all.

I hope some of this will help but if anyone can add to these comments I

would be delighted:

Firstly and most simply: A salicylate is a type of phenol and all

phenols

are types of alcohol (though not the types that make you drunk).

The confusion begins with phenol because it is both the name of a

specific

chemical and the generic name for a group of chemicals - " The phenols " .

The

specific chemical is made up of two components: A ring of six carbon

atoms

and an alcohol group. In chemistry, a carbon ring is often called an

" aromatic " ring because chemicals of this type usually smell quite

strongly.

The specific phenol chemical is a liquid and was once used as a surgical

antiseptic (ie it kills germs and bacteria). It is still used in some

household cleaners and mouthwashes. It is quite toxic. No-one would ever

dream of knowingly drinking it.

Phenol is also used as a generic term for ANY chemical which has an

aromatic

ring and an alcohol (hydroxyl) group. There are countless such chemicals

including tyrosine, a component of most proteins (of both animal and

vegetable origin) and adrenalin. It would be impossible to avoid eating

phenols. It's not like gluten. Where there is life, there are phenols.

Salicylic acid is a type of phenol. It is made up of three components:

An

aromatic ring and an alcohol group (like all phenols) AND something

called a

carboxyl group. Salicylic acid occurs naturally in certain plants and is

used

in making aspirin and in food additives such as dyes. When salicylic

acid

reacts with certain other chemicals, the resultant new chemical is

called a

salicylate. There are lots of different salicylates.

If there is a problem for our kids in this area it is likely to be with

salicylates rather than with all phenols. Why? Because in the guts, it

seems

that breaking down salicylates can use up a lot of sulphate and one of

the

problems of our kids is that don't have much free sulphate in their guts

in

the first place (which is why some of us find Epsom Salt - magnesium

sulphate - baths to be helpful). If they use up their sulphate to break

down

salicylates, they might not have enough to break down other chemicals.

Plus

sulphate seems to play a key role in helping to keep a healthy lining to

the

guts. This all makes sense because we all know that one of the problems

of

long term use of aspirin is that it can cause stomach bleeding because

eating a lot of aspirin can start to affect the walls of the stomach.

As well as affecting the guts - or should that be " because they affect

the

guts " , salicylates have been fingered for their role in causing

hyperactivity in children (eg the Feingold Diet) and also for sometimes

causing skin problems such as eczema and urticaria.

Feingold lists the foods which are high in salicylates as being Almonds,

Apples, Apricots, Berries (all), Cherries, Chili powder, Cider & cider

vinegar (apples), Cloves, Coffee, Cucumbers & pickles, Currants, Grapes

&

raisins, Nectarines, Oranges, Paprika, Peaches, Peppers (bell & chili),

Plums, prunes, Tangerines, Tea, Tomatoes, Wine & wine vinegar (grapes),

Oil

of wintergreen (methyl salicylate). Plus they suggest avoiding all foods

which list " natural flavors " or " natural col ours " as these are quite

likely

to contain salicylates.

So should you avoid all these foods for your kids? Well, I don't and if

you

look carefully at Feingold you'll see that they don't either. What they

suggest is that you remove all of them to begin with and then

re-introduce

them one by one to see which have negative effects and which don't.

Remember

that there are many different types of salicylates and some kids seem

better

at handling some than others. For example, my Calum reacts badly to

several

foods on the above list (eg blackcurrant, tomatoes and oranges). But

other

foods produce no noticeable effects at all (eg apples, grapes and

strawberries). Then again he can't eat egg yolks or prawns - and they

are

not on the list at all. Neither are bananas which many of our kids react

badly too.

It's a drag but it looks like we just have to face it: After gluten and

casein are removed, almost all of us find a heap of other things we have

to

avoid for our kids as well. And after a year in the game I have come to

the

conclusion that whatever list you consult for advice, at the end of the

day

there's no getting away from it: Every kid is different and will have a

different pattern of things to avoid.

With best wishes,

(father of Calum - storming to recovery on GFCF!)

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