elefanten shoes for $17. like striedrite walkers

[Guest guest]

I just wondered if anyone liked the elefanten shoes? I LOVE them

and just found tons of them at marshalls. They are the flex sole

high top style.....these are the best shoes and they are only $17.

Normally they are $50 or more. If anyone is interested I would be

willing to check what sizes they have and could pick them up and

mail them if you wanted to send me a check or something. They had

plain white, dark brown and white with pink at the top. I saw alot

of size 4's and 6.5's, and 7's. Anyways, feel free to email if

anyone would like a pair.

Oh, I was just thinking someone might not trust me....If you do

ebay, I could easily put them on as an auction for you.

[Guest guest]

, do you think they had any really small ones like 1's or 2's?

elefanten shoes for $17. like striedrite walkers

I just wondered if anyone liked the elefanten shoes? I LOVE them

and just found tons of them at marshalls. They are the flex sole

high top style.....these are the best shoes and they are only $17.

Normally they are $50 or more. If anyone is interested I would be

willing to check what sizes they have and could pick them up and

mail them if you wanted to send me a check or something. They had

plain white, dark brown and white with pink at the top. I saw alot

of size 4's and 6.5's, and 7's. Anyways, feel free to email if

anyone would like a pair.

Oh, I was just thinking someone might not trust me....If you do

ebay, I could easily put them on as an auction for you.

[Guest guest]

Bummer - I don't think 's feet are going to be that size for a LONG, LONG

time. LOL Thanks for offering!

Chris

elefanten shoes for $17. like

striedrite walkers

>

>

>

> I just wondered if anyone liked the elefanten shoes? I LOVE

them

> and just found tons of them at marshalls. They are the flex sole

> high top style.....these are the best shoes and they are only

$17.

> Normally they are $50 or more. If anyone is interested I would

be

> willing to check what sizes they have and could pick them up and

> mail them if you wanted to send me a check or something. They

had

> plain white, dark brown and white with pink at the top. I saw

alot

> of size 4's and 6.5's, and 7's. Anyways, feel free to email if

> anyone would like a pair.

> Oh, I was just thinking someone might not trust me....If you do

> ebay, I could easily put them on as an auction for you.

>

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

No I think the smallest was a 3.5 or 4. If I get many replies I

will just write down all the sizes people want and go buy them. If

people decide they don't want them I can return them. But would like

to know if people are really interested beforehand. I got Grace a

pair and they are so nice.

> , do you think they had any really small ones like 1's or

2's?

> elefanten shoes for $17. like

striedrite walkers

>

>

>

> I just wondered if anyone liked the elefanten shoes? I LOVE

them

> and just found tons of them at marshalls. They are the flex sole

> high top style.....these are the best shoes and they are only

$17.

> Normally they are $50 or more. If anyone is interested I would

be

> willing to check what sizes they have and could pick them up and

> mail them if you wanted to send me a check or something. They

had

> plain white, dark brown and white with pink at the top. I saw

alot

> of size 4's and 6.5's, and 7's. Anyways, feel free to email if

> anyone would like a pair.

> Oh, I was just thinking someone might not trust me....If you do

> ebay, I could easily put them on as an auction for you.

>

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

do you know if they by any chance come in a 3? my daughter

has a very small foot but has not started walking yet, so i thought

maybe she would be a 3 by the time she walks.

michelle and samantha

BL CF

12/16/03

> No I think the smallest was a 3.5 or 4. If I get many replies I

> will just write down all the sizes people want and go buy them.

If

> people decide they don't want them I can return them. But would

like

> to know if people are really interested beforehand. I got Grace a

> pair and they are so nice.

> > , do you think they had any really small ones like 1's

or

> 2's?

> > elefanten shoes for $17. like

> striedrite walkers

> >

> >

> >

> > I just wondered if anyone liked the elefanten shoes? I LOVE

> them

> > and just found tons of them at marshalls. They are the flex

sole

> > high top style.....these are the best shoes and they are only

> $17.

> > Normally they are $50 or more. If anyone is interested I would

> be

> > willing to check what sizes they have and could pick them up

and

> > mail them if you wanted to send me a check or something. They

> had

> > plain white, dark brown and white with pink at the top. I saw

> alot

> > of size 4's and 6.5's, and 7's. Anyways, feel free to email

if

> > anyone would like a pair.

> > Oh, I was just thinking someone might not trust me....If you

do

> > ebay, I could easily put them on as an auction for you.

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

Thank you for offering, but is still in a size 1. I am bummed that i

will have to pass!

DM

chris@...> wrote:

, do you think they had any really small ones like 1's or 2's?

elefanten shoes for $17. like striedrite walkers

I just wondered if anyone liked the elefanten shoes? I LOVE them

and just found tons of them at marshalls. They are the flex sole

high top style.....these are the best shoes and they are only $17.

Normally they are $50 or more. If anyone is interested I would be

willing to check what sizes they have and could pick them up and

mail them if you wanted to send me a check or something. They had

plain white, dark brown and white with pink at the top. I saw alot

of size 4's and 6.5's, and 7's. Anyways, feel free to email if

anyone would like a pair.

Oh, I was just thinking someone might not trust me....If you do

ebay, I could easily put them on as an auction for you.

[Guest guest]

my daughter is not finally able to wear shoes... she's been in and out of casts

so much from surgery.. but she's in a size 4.5 right now... and has a pair of

stride rites... so i am looking for something next size up... do they have them

in 5 or 5.5?

Dawn-Marie dawnmarie2251@...> wrote:Thank you for offering, but

is still in a size 1. I am bummed that i will have to pass!

DM

chris@...> wrote:

, do you think they had any really small ones like 1's or 2's?

elefanten shoes for $17. like striedrite walkers

I just wondered if anyone liked the elefanten shoes? I LOVE them

and just found tons of them at marshalls. They are the flex sole

high top style.....these are the best shoes and they are only $17.

Normally they are $50 or more. If anyone is interested I would be

willing to check what sizes they have and could pick them up and

mail them if you wanted to send me a check or something. They had

plain white, dark brown and white with pink at the top. I saw alot

of size 4's and 6.5's, and 7's. Anyways, feel free to email if

anyone would like a pair.

Oh, I was just thinking someone might not trust me....If you do

ebay, I could easily put them on as an auction for you.

[Guest guest]

> , do you think they had any really small ones like 1's or

2's?

> elefanten shoes for $17. like

striedrite walkers

>

>

>

> I just wondered if anyone liked the elefanten shoes? I LOVE

them

> and just found tons of them at marshalls. They are the flex sole

> high top style.....these are the best shoes and they are only

$17.

> Normally they are $50 or more. If anyone is interested I would

be

> willing to check what sizes they have and could pick them up and

> mail them if you wanted to send me a check or something. They

had

> plain white, dark brown and white with pink at the top. I saw

alot

> of size 4's and 6.5's, and 7's. Anyways, feel free to email if

> anyone would like a pair.

> Oh, I was just thinking someone might not trust me....If you do

> ebay, I could easily put them on as an auction for you.

>

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Hi

Do you have a picture of the shoes and are they for when they start walking?

One more question do our cf babies have to wear special shoes for walking or at

all?

Thank you in advance

Jen mom to -07-11-2004...bcf..dbb 16\7

elefanten shoes for $17. like striedrite walkers

I just wondered if anyone liked the elefanten shoes? I LOVE them

and just found tons of them at marshalls. They are the flex sole

high top style.....these are the best shoes and they are only $17.

Normally they are $50 or more. If anyone is interested I would be

willing to check what sizes they have and could pick them up and

mail them if you wanted to send me a check or something. They had

plain white, dark brown and white with pink at the top. I saw alot

of size 4's and 6.5's, and 7's. Anyways, feel free to email if

anyone would like a pair.

Oh, I was just thinking someone might not trust me....If you do

ebay, I could easily put them on as an auction for you.

[Guest guest]

Dr. Ponseti said we definitely need to wear good walking shoes for

when out of the bar, while it is important for baby to get used to his

piggies out in the open and touching other surfaces, it is also

important that they get good support when they are walking.

course, my little guy has to go one step further and actually have

shoes made for him by , due to the severity, but

generally kids just need super wide shoes. Some have smaller feet,

like my son, 16 months and a size 2 extra wide, and some have wider

feet. I think a lot of us have had trouble finding shoes that are

wide enough in the smaller sizes...or maybe it's just me. Anyhoo,

their feet should be good in an ankle supporting hard soled shoe.

HTH,

> Hi

> Do you have a picture of the shoes and are they for when they start

walking?

> One more question do our cf babies have to wear special shoes for

walking or at all?

> Thank you in advance

> Jen mom to -07-11-2004...bcf..dbb 16\7

> elefanten shoes for $17. like

striedrite walkers

>

>

>

> I just wondered if anyone liked the elefanten shoes? I LOVE them

> and just found tons of them at marshalls. They are the flex sole

> high top style.....these are the best shoes and they are only $17.

> Normally they are $50 or more. If anyone is interested I would be

> willing to check what sizes they have and could pick them up and

> mail them if you wanted to send me a check or something. They had

> plain white, dark brown and white with pink at the top. I saw alot

> of size 4's and 6.5's, and 7's. Anyways, feel free to email if

> anyone would like a pair.

> Oh, I was just thinking someone might not trust me....If you do

> ebay, I could easily put them on as an auction for you.

>

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

she's in a cast right now since she had the tendon release done so late... and i

think she is going to see dr dobbs in st louis for a consult... but if he just

puts her in the DBB then i will want to get them... but i need to wait and see

what he says first... because by then she may have a growth spurt!!! so i will

let you know... thank you very very much...

mommy to Grace 12-03-03 BCF

boothejennifer boothejennifer@...> wrote:

--- In nosurgery4clubfoot , Caroland

I saw several small pairs in the brown. Probably like a 3. I am

almost positive there were some 5's and 5.5 (I bought a 5.5 for

Grace). If you are seriously interested you can email me at

boothejennifer@... and tell me what size and color

preference you have white, brown or white w/pink. Also if the color

you want is not available let me know if you would want the other

colors. I will probably go back tomorrow afternoon. Also I will

charge for shipping, but whatever is cheapest. It wont be more than

3-5$ to ship.

lisa caroland

__________________________________________________

[Guest guest]

We are not there yet, my son is 4 mos and in the DBB but I have been

dreaming of regular shoes!! Do you buy 2 sizes? Are stride rite a

recommended brand? How about robeez? Thanks! Lori

_____

From: Wold

Sent: Friday, January 21, 2005 4:34 AM

To: nosurgery4clubfoot

Subject: Re: elefanten shoes for $17. like striedrite

walkers

Dr. Ponseti said we definitely need to wear good walking shoes for

when out of the bar, while it is important for baby to get used to his

piggies out in the open and touching other surfaces, it is also

important that they get good support when they are walking.

course, my little guy has to go one step further and actually have

shoes made for him by , due to the severity, but

generally kids just need super wide shoes. Some have smaller feet,

like my son, 16 months and a size 2 extra wide, and some have wider

feet. I think a lot of us have had trouble finding shoes that are

wide enough in the smaller sizes...or maybe it's just me. Anyhoo,

their feet should be good in an ankle supporting hard soled shoe.

HTH,

> Hi

> Do you have a picture of the shoes and are they for when they start

walking?

> One more question do our cf babies have to wear special shoes for

walking or at all?

> Thank you in advance

> Jen mom to -07-11-2004...bcf..dbb 16\7

> elefanten shoes for $17. like

striedrite walkers

>

>

>

> I just wondered if anyone liked the elefanten shoes? I LOVE them

> and just found tons of them at marshalls. They are the flex sole

> high top style.....these are the best shoes and they are only $17.

> Normally they are $50 or more. If anyone is interested I would be

> willing to check what sizes they have and could pick them up and

> mail them if you wanted to send me a check or something. They had

> plain white, dark brown and white with pink at the top. I saw alot

> of size 4's and 6.5's, and 7's. Anyways, feel free to email if

> anyone would like a pair.

> Oh, I was just thinking someone might not trust me....If you do

> ebay, I could easily put them on as an auction for you.

>

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

There really isn't a recommended brand. It's more what works for your

childs feet. Stride Rite also tends to make wider shoes. I have had

good luck with payless, but they don't always have good ankle support

available. I would just buy one size. because we have the special

shoes I don't knwo when I will be able to see my little guy in real

shoes, but hey, if these work and do the trick who really cares??

hehe! But they sure are cute in their little tennis shoes or boots!

Don't fret, your time will come and that little guy will just pick

himself up and walk! Hold on to that dream and keep that DBB on!! At

least you got a good early start!

Keep on going,

> > Hi

> > Do you have a picture of the shoes and are they for when they start

> walking?

> > One more question do our cf babies have to wear special shoes for

> walking or at all?

> > Thank you in advance

> > Jen mom to -07-11-2004...bcf..dbb 16\7

> > elefanten shoes for $17. like

> striedrite walkers

> >

> >

> >

> > I just wondered if anyone liked the elefanten shoes? I LOVE them

> > and just found tons of them at marshalls. They are the flex sole

> > high top style.....these are the best shoes and they are only $17.

> > Normally they are $50 or more. If anyone is interested I would be

> > willing to check what sizes they have and could pick them up and

> > mail them if you wanted to send me a check or something. They had

> > plain white, dark brown and white with pink at the top. I saw alot

> > of size 4's and 6.5's, and 7's. Anyways, feel free to email if

> > anyone would like a pair.

> > Oh, I was just thinking someone might not trust me....If you do

> > ebay, I could easily put them on as an auction for you.

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

At walmart I bought those baby shoes, kind of the old fashioned variety, the

white leather baby boots. They were flexible, high top and wide. They really

resemble the white DBB boots except not open toed. Anyway, those were $10 and

seem to work really well on my baby. I can even run them through the washing

machine and put white shoe polish back on them.

s.

> We are not there yet, my son is 4 mos and in the DBB but I have been

> dreaming of regular shoes!! Do you buy 2 sizes? Are stride rite a

> recommended brand? How about robeez? Thanks! Lori

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Thanks for the advice!! I thought for sure we would be spending a fortune

on 2 pairs of shoes for correct sizing (unilateral cf)! Lori

_____

From: Wold

Sent: Saturday, January 22, 2005 6:12 AM

To: nosurgery4clubfoot

Subject: Re: elefanten shoes for $17. like striedrite

walkers

There really isn't a recommended brand. It's more what works for your

childs feet. Stride Rite also tends to make wider shoes. I have had

good luck with payless, but they don't always have good ankle support

available. I would just buy one size. because we have the special

shoes I don't knwo when I will be able to see my little guy in real

shoes, but hey, if these work and do the trick who really cares??

hehe! But they sure are cute in their little tennis shoes or boots!

Don't fret, your time will come and that little guy will just pick

himself up and walk! Hold on to that dream and keep that DBB on!! At

least you got a good early start!

Keep on going,

> > Hi

> > Do you have a picture of the shoes and are they for when they start

> walking?

> > One more question do our cf babies have to wear special shoes for

> walking or at all?

> > Thank you in advance

> > Jen mom to -07-11-2004...bcf..dbb 16\7

> > elefanten shoes for $17. like

> striedrite walkers

> >

> >

> >

> > I just wondered if anyone liked the elefanten shoes? I LOVE them

> > and just found tons of them at marshalls. They are the flex sole

> > high top style.....these are the best shoes and they are only $17.

> > Normally they are $50 or more. If anyone is interested I would be

> > willing to check what sizes they have and could pick them up and

> > mail them if you wanted to send me a check or something. They had

> > plain white, dark brown and white with pink at the top. I saw alot

> > of size 4's and 6.5's, and 7's. Anyways, feel free to email if

> > anyone would like a pair.

> > Oh, I was just thinking someone might not trust me....If you do

> > ebay, I could easily put them on as an auction for you.

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

Thanks! I will keep my eye out! Lori

_____

From: Number23

Sent: Saturday, January 22, 2005 8:18 AM

To: nosurgery4clubfoot

Subject: Re: Re: elefanten shoes for $17. like

striedrite walkers

At walmart I bought those baby shoes, kind of the old fashioned variety, the

white leather baby boots. They were flexible, high top and wide. They

really resemble the white DBB boots except not open toed. Anyway, those were

$10 and seem to work really well on my baby. I can even run them through

the washing machine and put white shoe polish back on them.

s.

> We are not there yet, my son is 4 mos and in the DBB but I have been

> dreaming of regular shoes!! Do you buy 2 sizes? Are stride rite a

> recommended brand? How about robeez? Thanks! Lori

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

I hadn't actually thought of that, but I guess I would go with the

size that fits the non clubfoot, as the other is usually smaller.

We're bilateral over here, but I can't imagine that there is that huge

of a difference, possibly just half a size and I would think the

smaller foot would be just fine. Maybe double up on socks on that

foot? I'm not sure what problems there are with unilateral if

any...someone else will probably jump in if they've had to deal with

that being an issue. Sorry about that! But I would think just

one size would be fine. But what do I know? LOL

> > > Hi

> > > Do you have a picture of the shoes and are they for when they start

> > walking?

> > > One more question do our cf babies have to wear special shoes for

> > walking or at all?

> > > Thank you in advance

> > > Jen mom to -07-11-2004...bcf..dbb 16\7

> > > elefanten shoes for $17. like

> > striedrite walkers

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > I just wondered if anyone liked the elefanten shoes? I LOVE them

> > > and just found tons of them at marshalls. They are the flex sole

> > > high top style.....these are the best shoes and they are only

$17.

> > > Normally they are $50 or more. If anyone is interested I would be

> > > willing to check what sizes they have and could pick them up and

> > > mail them if you wanted to send me a check or something. They had

> > > plain white, dark brown and white with pink at the top. I saw

alot

> > > of size 4's and 6.5's, and 7's. Anyways, feel free to email if

> > > anyone would like a pair.

> > > Oh, I was just thinking someone might not trust me....If you do

> > > ebay, I could easily put them on as an auction for you.

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

[Guest guest]

I don't have experience there either (then just shut up, right?) but I know if

's feet were unilateral I'd have one whale of a time fitting him in the

same size shoes cuz his cf are shaped so weird.

s.

I hadn't actually thought of that, but I guess I would go with the

size that fits the non clubfoot, as the other is usually smaller.

We're bilateral over here, but I can't imagine that there is that huge

of a difference, possibly just half a size and I would think the

smaller foot would be just fine. Maybe double up on socks on that

foot? I'm not sure what problems there are with unilateral if

any...someone else will probably jump in if they've had to deal with

that being an issue. Sorry about that! But I would think just

one size would be fine. But what do I know? LOL

> > > Hi

> > > Do you have a picture of the shoes and are they for when they start

> > walking?

> > > One more question do our cf babies have to wear special shoes for

> > walking or at all?

> > > Thank you in advance

> > > Jen mom to -07-11-2004...bcf..dbb 16\7

> > > elefanten shoes for $17. like

> > striedrite walkers

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > I just wondered if anyone liked the elefanten shoes? I LOVE them

> > > and just found tons of them at marshalls. They are the flex sole

> > > high top style.....these are the best shoes and they are only

$17.

> > > Normally they are $50 or more. If anyone is interested I would be

> > > willing to check what sizes they have and could pick them up and

> > > mail them if you wanted to send me a check or something. They had

> > > plain white, dark brown and white with pink at the top. I saw

alot

> > > of size 4's and 6.5's, and 7's. Anyways, feel free to email if

> > > anyone would like a pair.

> > > Oh, I was just thinking someone might not trust me....If you do

> > > ebay, I could easily put them on as an auction for you.

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

[Guest guest]

Many of the unilateral cases do wind up with a significant size difference. Up

to a size or 2. Nordstrom's will split pairs for you, that is make sure each

foot has a shoe that fits, at no extra charge. Something to keep in mind when

the time comes.

Naomi

The Family

Naomi Hannah(02/21/01) Jonah(06/20/03, bilateral clubfoot, FAB 14/7)

Lori Webb lori.webb@...> wrote:

Thanks for the advice!! I thought for sure we would be spending a fortune

on 2 pairs of shoes for correct sizing (unilateral cf)! Lori

_____

From: Wold

Sent: Saturday, January 22, 2005 6:12 AM

To: nosurgery4clubfoot

Subject: Re: elefanten shoes for $17. like striedrite

walkers

There really isn't a recommended brand. It's more what works for your

childs feet. Stride Rite also tends to make wider shoes. I have had

good luck with payless, but they don't always have good ankle support

available. I would just buy one size. because we have the special

shoes I don't knwo when I will be able to see my little guy in real

shoes, but hey, if these work and do the trick who really cares??

hehe! But they sure are cute in their little tennis shoes or boots!

Don't fret, your time will come and that little guy will just pick

himself up and walk! Hold on to that dream and keep that DBB on!! At

least you got a good early start!

Keep on going,

> > Hi

> > Do you have a picture of the shoes and are they for when they start

> walking?

> > One more question do our cf babies have to wear special shoes for

> walking or at all?

> > Thank you in advance

> > Jen mom to -07-11-2004...bcf..dbb 16\7

> > elefanten shoes for $17. like

> striedrite walkers

> >

> >

> >

> > I just wondered if anyone liked the elefanten shoes? I LOVE them

> > and just found tons of them at marshalls. They are the flex sole

> > high top style.....these are the best shoes and they are only $17.

> > Normally they are $50 or more. If anyone is interested I would be

> > willing to check what sizes they have and could pick them up and

> > mail them if you wanted to send me a check or something. They had

> > plain white, dark brown and white with pink at the top. I saw alot

> > of size 4's and 6.5's, and 7's. Anyways, feel free to email if

> > anyone would like a pair.

> > Oh, I was just thinking someone might not trust me....If you do

> > ebay, I could easily put them on as an auction for you.

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

see? told ya someone would chime in! LOL. I had no idea there could

be that big of a difference. What a wonderful thing Noordstroms does.

That's awesome and good to know!!

> > > Hi

> > > Do you have a picture of the shoes and are they for when they start

> > walking?

> > > One more question do our cf babies have to wear special shoes for

> > walking or at all?

> > > Thank you in advance

> > > Jen mom to -07-11-2004...bcf..dbb 16\7

> > > elefanten shoes for $17. like

> > striedrite walkers

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > I just wondered if anyone liked the elefanten shoes? I LOVE them

> > > and just found tons of them at marshalls. They are the flex sole

> > > high top style.....these are the best shoes and they are only

$17.

> > > Normally they are $50 or more. If anyone is interested I would be

> > > willing to check what sizes they have and could pick them up and

> > > mail them if you wanted to send me a check or something. They had

> > > plain white, dark brown and white with pink at the top. I saw

alot

> > > of size 4's and 6.5's, and 7's. Anyways, feel free to email if

> > > anyone would like a pair.

> > > Oh, I was just thinking someone might not trust me....If you do

> > > ebay, I could easily put them on as an auction for you.

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

[Guest guest]

Sure, but for the price you'd pay at Nordstrom's you could probably

buy 2 pairs somewhere else!!! :-) J/K...anyway, that is nice of them

to do that!

, mommy of:

Guinevere, on, Ava 8/4/04 right CF DBB 23/7

> > > > Hi

> > > > Do you have a picture of the shoes and are they for when

they start

> > > walking?

> > > > One more question do our cf babies have to wear special

shoes for

> > > walking or at all?

> > > > Thank you in advance

> > > > Jen mom to -07-11-2004...bcf..dbb 16\7

> > > > elefanten shoes for $17. like

> > > striedrite walkers

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > I just wondered if anyone liked the elefanten shoes? I

LOVE them

> > > > and just found tons of them at marshalls. They are the

flex sole

> > > > high top style.....these are the best shoes and they are

only

> $17.

> > > > Normally they are $50 or more. If anyone is interested I

would be

> > > > willing to check what sizes they have and could pick them

up and

> > > > mail them if you wanted to send me a check or something.

They had

> > > > plain white, dark brown and white with pink at the top. I

saw

> alot

> > > > of size 4's and 6.5's, and 7's. Anyways, feel free to

email if

> > > > anyone would like a pair.

> > > > Oh, I was just thinking someone might not trust me....If

you do

> > > > ebay, I could easily put them on as an auction for you.

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >