SV: Off GFCF HELP PLEASE!

[Guest guest]

This looks like a classic " phase 1 " reaction = more or less exactly what could

be expected. The hyperactive phase comes later, and gets more serious, the

longer you manage to delay it by supplying more offending protein.

Let me repeat from a previous posting:

INTERPRETATION OF INFRINGEMENT EXPERIENCE

PROBLEM NO. 1

IF your son has a peptide problem, then the intake of gluten or casein is likely

to affect him in a way that is analogous to morphine intake.

* Even if the opoid peptides are not exactly like morphine, the initial

reaction is likely to have several aspects to it that the patient is liely to

consider " positive " or " pleasant " . Drowsiness must be expected.

* The unpleasantness comes later on, with habituation.

Any drug addict should be able to tell you this.

PROBLEM NO. 2

Autism is not in itself an illness. It's a name that's used to tell that the

patient has a certain number of symptoms that make up the diagnostic criteria

for autism. Many of these symptoms are NOT the direct result of the underlying

illness. They are, rather, the effect of skewed development.

Since the autistic symptoms are NOT direct results of exposure to milk or

gluten peptides, but rather to the body's adaption to this exposure over time,

such exposure will NOT normally result in immediate regression into " autistic "

behaviour, in a patient that has been on the diet for a while. More probably,

it will make the patient display a different subset of other symptoms related to

the causes, rather than the effects of autistic development.

OTHER PROBLEMS

There are other problems as well, that affect the interpretation of diet

infringement observations. I've sent a couple of other posts about this, you

can look them up in the archives. I've also written about these problems at

www.advimoss.no/gfcf_results.htm . One particularly puzzling problem is the

bell-shaped dose response curve.

An extract from the (yet) unfinished GFCF FAQ glossary:

Bell-shaped dose response curve

Imagine you drink one glass of wine. You get slightly fuzzy. Drink another, and

the fuzziness increases. Drink a bottle or two, and you'll get roaring drunk.

Add more bottles, and sooner or later you will die of alcohol intoxication. This

is an example of a (more or less) linear dose response curve.

Other substances, and among these you'll find the bioactive peptides, behave in

a totally different manner. Up to a certain level, they don't cause much of a

reaction at all. Beyond that point, an increased dose causes a sharp increase in

response. Beyond a certain point, a further increase of the dose will cause a

decrease of the total response. (Imagine being very drunk and then becoming

nearly sober by drinking two bottles more).

Some people would guess, at this point, that giving enormous quantities of

gluten and milk might be just as effective as withdrawing them completely. These

people may, in fact, be right, but only up to a point, and only for a while.

While symptoms may be masked, damage will nevertheless occur, and adaption will

cause the point of maximum dose/effect relationship to move.

CONCLUSION

Interpreting the effects of diet infringements is not easy. We need to stick

together, and share information like this. You can do it through the GFCFkids

diet survey (at www.gfcfdiet.com)

Yours

n Klaveness

PS: Keep us posted about development !

-----Opprinnelig melding-----

Fra: kwolf66741@... kwolf66741@...>

Til: GFCFKids GFCFKids >

Dato: 3. mai 2001 20:03

Emne: Re: Off GFCF HELP PLEASE!

>Hi all,

>

>My son Jack has been GFCF for almost 2 years now, and because we saw no

>changes with the diet we decided in January to challenge it. However, right

>around that time Jack ended up getting really sick (horrible sinus infection)

>and became lethargic and mellow and refused to eat. We put him back on the

>diet because we didn't know at first what was going on. After a few weeks

>the sinus infection cleared up and he was back to his old happy, active self

>again.

>

>Anyway, we just decided to reintroduce gluten and casein again. About 2

>weeks ago we added dairy into Jack's diet for one week - no changes. Then

>last week we added gluten. Again, no negative changes. However in the last

>few days he's refused to eat anything, even his beloved Mc's fries and

>he is very mellow and sad seeming again. (Now he's a huge kid for 3 1/2

>years old - 56 lbs, so I am not too concerned about him losing weight) he

>just seems so mellow and sad. I am not sure if he is not feeling well

>(spring allergies are horrible right now and he is congested) or if it is the

>diet. I just have never heard of any child having a reaction like that,

>don't most kids WANT the foods they couldn't have and aren't most kids

>affected by being more hyper or aggressive???? Jack won't eat ANY foods and

>is just MELLOW - so unlike him.

>

>Needless to say I am getting very worried and would just like to hear some

>other opinions on what might be going on.

>

>Thanks so much in advance!

>Kim

>kwolf66741@...

[Guest guest]

At Friday 5/4/01 05:01 AM, n Klaveness wrote:

>Imagine you drink one glass of wine. You get slightly fuzzy. Drink

>another, and the fuzziness increases. Drink a bottle or two, and you'll

>get roaring drunk. Add more bottles, and sooner or later you will die of

>alcohol intoxication. This is an example of a (more or less) linear dose

>response curve.

>

>Other substances, and among these you'll find the bioactive peptides,

>behave in a totally different manner. Up to a certain level, they don't

>cause much of a reaction at all.

Since unlike alcohol these peptides normally occur in the body in all

people, wouldn't a 'normal' degree of tolerance be expected? Thus

accounting for the lower dosages having no behavioral impact?

>Beyond that point, an increased dose causes a sharp increase in response.

>Beyond a certain point, a further increase of the dose will cause a

>decrease of the total response. (Imagine being very drunk and then

>becoming nearly sober by drinking two bottles more).

Amphetamine can act this way too I believe. At the moderate doses one sees

hyperactivity, at greater doses one sees what could be misinterpreted as a

sedative-like effect because the person has become almost paralyzed from

the effects of the drug. Is it possible this is what you're seeing with the

high dosages of G/C peptides?

>Some people would guess, at this point, that giving enormous quantities of

>gluten and milk might be just as effective as withdrawing them completely.

Like treating hyperactivity in children with ritalin? Uch!

>These people may, in fact, be right, but only up to a point, and only for

>a while. While symptoms may be masked, damage will nevertheless occur, and

>adaption will cause the point of maximum dose/effect relationship to move.

Are there any results yet on gauging tolerance and dosage? These seem like

critical quantitative results. Perhaps owing to the ability to develop

tolerance very quickly though they are very problematic to ascertain?

>CONCLUSION

>Interpreting the effects of diet infringements is not easy. We need to

>stick together, and share information like this. You can do it through

>the GFCFkids diet survey (at www.gfcfdiet.com)

We've just started this yesterday. I am personally also very interested in

seeing what effects may occur on myself if I can get off these foods. I

believe such effects and behavior occur on a continuum. So even though I

have ever been diagnosed ASD for instance, perhaps it is still more than

coincidence that I've always loved such foods as

bread

ice cream

milk

cream cheese

butter

We'll see. From a practical point of view we are a family of 5 and just

learning to cook GF/CF. I believe the only way to be 100% GF/CF, at least

for our family is to prepare everything ourselves from known ingredients.

My wife and I are ok cooks and the kids enjoy helping and learning as well.

So there is hope. And as any parent knows, priorities too.

Nice to have that constant excuse at the end of everything, huh? Sorry for

the long post.

Marty