RE: I am at the end of my rope

February 2, 2005

Everett climbs in to his high chair with the tray down in the *eating* position

wearing his DBB (just shimmies under the tray, then turns around to sit!) , and

climbs back down, up stairs, in to regular chairs....anything he can do minus

the DBB he can do with the DBB except walk and he's working on that right now.

s.

RE: I am at the end of my rope

Darbi was wearing it that long when she learned to

walk, apparently it didn't hinder her at all.

February 2, 2005

You know I think it sucks parents are made to feel guilty for giving their child

a little relaxer once in a while. How many adults come home from a hard day

and drink a beer for the exact same reason? Or take a Tylanol PM pill or even

a Rx pill to relax and help them sleep. Your kid can't tell you, Dang it's

been a hard day I think I need a little something to chill me out.....but that

doesn't mean they wouldn't appreciate it once in while all the same. Growing up

is a tough gig! Pound for pound I bet they work 100 times harder than we do

and suffer a hundred times the emotional exhaustion just from their little

brains sucking up so much data all the time and their little worlds being so

completely out of their own control.

s.

mSubject: RE: I am at the end of my rope

OMG..that is good..LOL. benadryl might be worth a shot! I got the okay from

the dr. because he scratches his eczema so it would be guilt free!

February 2, 2005

Oh I hope it gets better for you both! Let us know what happens.

s.

I am going to do that. It sounds like it is a start. I will put his shoes

on now and see what happens over the next few days.

THANK YOU EVERYONE FOR YOUR HELP WITH THIS DREADFUL SITUATION!!!

Mommy to (12-17-98) and

Christian (1-30-04) LCF - DBB (nights only)

_____

February 2, 2005

> Well, it breaks my heart when he cries at night so I always end up

going in

> there to console him. I don't know if he will sleep better

without the

> shoes because I haven't taken them off him at night yet. He has

managed to

> take them off himself at about 4 or 5 in the morning. When I pick

him up

> and stand with him on my shoulder he is the most comfortable -

whatever that

> means for him. Anyway, Dr. Herzenberg lowered his hours from 23/7

to 12

> hours at night because of his age. I guess he believes that it

would

> interrupt him developmentally to wear them longer. THESE KIDS

SHOULD COME

> WITH HANDBOOKS!!! LOLOL

>

> As far as a growth spurt go, I didn't know it was something that

would

> bother them at night? Also, teething, I considered that and have

put baby

> Orajel and given him Tylenol and that didn't change one thing.

>

> He is due for his one year well baby check up and I am going to

bring this

> up to the doctor to see if there is something that I am missing.

I cannot

> go on like this much longer.

>

> Thank you for your suggestions.

>

> Mommy to (12-17-98) and

>

> Christian (1-30-04) LCF - DBB (nights only)

>

> _____

>

> From: [mailto:chris@c...]

> Sent: Wednesday, February 02, 2005 10:59 AM

> To: nosurgery4clubfoot

> Subject: Re: I am at the end of my rope

>

> ,

> In my opinion, and it's just my opinion, CIO isn't for me. IF

they need

> you, they need you. That's what being a parent is. While you may

perceive

> that as a bit AP, children learn what the world will deal them by

their

> parents reactions. If their needs aren't met, they learn they

can't trust.

> They feel abandoned. They don't know if they are going to be

taken care of

> or not. In my mind, that's not a good place to put an infant or

child.

> Ferber may have a wonderful following, but I've been in the 'kid

business'

> long enough both professionally and personally to know that he's

not my idea

> of a wonderful solution. Even Pantley's book " The No-

Cry Sleep

> Solution: Gentle Ways to Help Your Baby Sleep Through the Nght "

has a

> better, less cruel, less grueling approach. I'm looking for

a 'paper' (I

> use that term loosely) that I've seen on the cons of CIO. If I

find it

> again, I'll post it if anyone is interested.

> Chris

>

> PS: In an interview Ferber did with a new parent, he recanted

several of

> his statements in his book, suggested that he's often taken out of

context

> and that he regrets writing some broad statements that were

accepted at the

> time. He's realized that kids need the security of their

parents. I have

> that url saved in my favorites somewhere if you need me to find

that, too.

> ----------

>

> No virus found in this outgoing message.

> Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.

> Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 265.8.4 - Release Date: 2/1/05

>

February 2, 2005

-

I didn't experience exactly the same thing, but I know sleeping next

to my son helps. The one thing I can suggest is do not take him off

of the bar at nights.

My son has never been a good sleeper, he is a tosser and turner.

He'd be up a few times a night calling for mommy. I was one of the

only things that could comfort him. So you may have found that your

son is using you as his " lovey " like my son at 2 1/2 still does,

Shane ends up sleeping with us half the night every night because of

this. he starts in his " big boy bed " then halfway through the night

gets up and can't get back to sleep without me and ends up in our

bed. there could be a chance your son needs a " lovey " , if he

doesn't already have one and that could be you right now. My older

son has a blanket and a bear and has always slept great.

Also a warning, don't let him go the night without the DBB. We did

that and Shane slept like a champ, first full night's sleep for

him. And the first full night for me in 3 years, so we ended up

weaning him from the bar, he was a year and a half. Now at 2 1/2 we

are going back to the bar at night's to prevent a relapse, we're

kinda afraid that it could happen. We can still turn his foot out

70 degrees and he has 10 % dorsiflexion but we want to make sure he

stays at that level because it looks like he could turn back.

So I guess I have to say is do what you feel is right for you and

your son. If he needs you and you can give up a little bit of sleep

or your time at night it will be worth it in the end.

June

Chase (8-27-00)

Shane (rcf 8-12-02)

> Well, it breaks my heart when he cries at night so I always end up

going in

> there to console him. I don't know if he will sleep better

without the

> shoes because I haven't taken them off him at night yet. He has

managed to

> take them off himself at about 4 or 5 in the morning. When I pick

him up

> and stand with him on my shoulder he is the most comfortable -

whatever that

> means for him. Anyway, Dr. Herzenberg lowered his hours from 23/7

to 12

> hours at night because of his age. I guess he believes that it

would

> interrupt him developmentally to wear them longer. THESE KIDS

SHOULD COME

> WITH HANDBOOKS!!! LOLOL

>

> As far as a growth spurt go, I didn't know it was something that

would

> bother them at night? Also, teething, I considered that and have

put baby

> Orajel and given him Tylenol and that didn't change one thing.

>

> He is due for his one year well baby check up and I am going to

bring this

> up to the doctor to see if there is something that I am missing.

I cannot

> go on like this much longer.

>

> Thank you for your suggestions.

>

> Mommy to (12-17-98) and

>

> Christian (1-30-04) LCF - DBB (nights only)

>

> _____

>

> From: [mailto:chris@c...]

> Sent: Wednesday, February 02, 2005 10:59 AM

> To: nosurgery4clubfoot

> Subject: Re: I am at the end of my rope

>

> ,

> In my opinion, and it's just my opinion, CIO isn't for me. IF

they need

> you, they need you. That's what being a parent is. While you may

perceive

> that as a bit AP, children learn what the world will deal them by

their

> parents reactions. If their needs aren't met, they learn they

can't trust.

> They feel abandoned. They don't know if they are going to be

taken care of

> or not. In my mind, that's not a good place to put an infant or

child.

> Ferber may have a wonderful following, but I've been in the 'kid

business'

> long enough both professionally and personally to know that he's

not my idea

> of a wonderful solution. Even Pantley's book " The No-

Cry Sleep

> Solution: Gentle Ways to Help Your Baby Sleep Through the Nght "

has a

> better, less cruel, less grueling approach. I'm looking for

a 'paper' (I

> use that term loosely) that I've seen on the cons of CIO. If I

find it

> again, I'll post it if anyone is interested.

> Chris

>

> PS: In an interview Ferber did with a new parent, he recanted

several of

> his statements in his book, suggested that he's often taken out of

context

> and that he regrets writing some broad statements that were

accepted at the

> time. He's realized that kids need the security of their

parents. I have

> that url saved in my favorites somewhere if you need me to find

that, too.

> ----------

>

> No virus found in this outgoing message.

> Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.

> Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 265.8.4 - Release Date: 2/1/05

>

February 2, 2005

According to the email from Dr. Ponseti of his protocol posted on here a

few days ago, the hours drop to 12-14 when the child is walking. In an

infant with the protocol from the beginning this is a gradual process

but when they are of walking age when they begin the 23/7, then 12- 14

hours would be for a walking child. My Kelsey is in the DBB 23/7 right

now and I can say for certain that she is being held back

developmentally by this. Just when she gets ready during her break to

try out her feet, she has to go back in it and with a bath thrown in

there she gets no practice at all. It frustrates her every day. So,

while it may not be the case for you, I believe whole heartedly that

Kelsey is being held back by this brace. It frustrates me to no end

that I have no options for her.

Jenni

number23 wrote:

>I am curious why at one year of age your dr. thinks he is old enough to go

from 24 hours directly down to 12 hours. I was of the impression the 12 hours

phase was for the 3 and 4 year olds. Like I said earlier, we're at 16 months

old and Dr. P still has us wearing them 14 hours (not Atypical or particularly

bad feet, either.) Have you considered asking Dr. Ponseti for a recommendation

just to back this up? Developmentally speaking, I'm not aware of any of our cf

kids on this loop being developmentally impaired due to DBB use. This moring

Everett stood up in his, with out holding on to anything - from a sit on the

floor to a stand, just that easy. He is trying to walk in it and I figure he'll

learn how by the time it's all over with.

>s.

>

>Subject: RE: I am at the end of my rope

>

>Dr. Herzenberg lowered his hours from 23/7 to 12

>hours at night because of his age.

>

February 2, 2005

I totally agree with you one this one! My dauthter who is going on

14months also has not got that chance to try to learn to walk, first

off cause those " great " dr. did not know what they were doing and

therefor her feet were never corrected and now because she is in the

brace 23/7. I too put her in the walker and give her periods of

barefoot time but when you least expect it its time to put the brace

back on! My daughter also loves bath time, she cries when I get her

out but we just have 1hr.

The good thing is we only have 3more weeks and I believe Dr.P said I

could drop her to 18hrs for 1 month then nap/bedtime. But I am going

to check with him to make sure. So I can sympathize w/ your

frustration!

and

BL CF 12/16/03

Mithchells 23/7

>

> >I am curious why at one year of age your dr. thinks he is old

enough to go from 24 hours directly down to 12 hours. I was of the

impression the 12 hours phase was for the 3 and 4 year olds. Like

I said earlier, we're at 16 months old and Dr. P still has us

wearing them 14 hours (not Atypical or particularly bad feet,

either.) Have you considered asking Dr. Ponseti for a

recommendation just to back this up? Developmentally speaking, I'm

not aware of any of our cf kids on this loop being developmentally

impaired due to DBB use. This moring Everett stood up in his, with

out holding on to anything - from a sit on the floor to a stand,

just that easy. He is trying to walk in it and I figure he'll learn

how by the time it's all over with.

> >s.

> >

> >Subject: RE: I am at the end of my rope

> >

> >Dr. Herzenberg lowered his hours from 23/7 to 12

> >hours at night because of his age.

> >

February 2, 2005

went through the same thing when we went down to 12 hours. It was almost

like leaving the brace on longer was easier! He just has to get used to wearing

it at night only- It is just like getting used to wearing the brace all over

again. He is so used to being " free " during the day, the he can't get used to

wearing it at night. It will get easier.

2/9/04 DBB 12 hours

Gerace cgerace@...> wrote:

Ever since we have been given " nights only " with the DBB our nights have

been HELL!!!!! I cannot take it any longer. Christian is getting up every

two hours! 11:00 p.m., 1:00 a.m., 3:00 a.m. and 5:00 a.m.!!!!!!!! He isn't

hungry or sick and when he wakes up crying he SCREAMS for more than an hour

unless I go in and console him! I feel like I am losing my mind. What is

going on? Anyone experience such a dramatic change?????

Mommy to (12-17-98) and

Christian (1-30-04) LCF - DBB (nights only)

February 3, 2005

YEAH !!! I'm thrilled for you. Enjoy your day now that you've had more

sleep!!! LOL

Chris

Re: I am at the end of my rope

went through the same thing when we went down to 12 hours. It was

almost like leaving the brace on longer was easier! He just has to get used

to wearing it at night only- It is just like getting used to wearing the

brace all over again. He is so used to being " free " during the day, the he

can't get used to wearing it at night. It will get easier.

2/9/04 DBB 12 hours

Gerace cgerace@...> wrote:

Ever since we have been given " nights only " with the DBB our nights have

been HELL!!!!! I cannot take it any longer. Christian is getting up every

two hours! 11:00 p.m., 1:00 a.m., 3:00 a.m. and 5:00 a.m.!!!!!!!! He isn't

hungry or sick and when he wakes up crying he SCREAMS for more than an hour

unless I go in and console him! I feel like I am losing my mind. What is

going on? Anyone experience such a dramatic change?????

Mommy to (12-17-98) and

Christian (1-30-04) LCF - DBB (nights only)

February 3, 2005

You are all never gonna believe this! I put the DBB on him at about 3:00 (I

think) yesterday afternoon. There were no problems during the day (as

usual) and I put him to bed at 7:00 p.m. He only woke up once at 2:15 a.m.

and went back to sleep until 6:00. This has not happened in almost 3

weeks!!!!!!! I CANNOT BELIEVE THAT KEEPING THE BRACE ON LONGER ACTUALLY

WORKED...I hope it just wasn't a fluke that he decided to sleep better last

night. I am keeping my fingers crossed for the future.

I WOULD HAVE NEVER EVER THOUGHT OF THAT IF IT WASN'T FOR THIS GROUP.

Mommy to (12-17-98) and

Christian (1-30-04) LCF - DBB (nights only)

_____

From: Tichauer

Sent: Wednesday, February 02, 2005 10:56 PM

To: nosurgery4clubfoot

Subject: Re: I am at the end of my rope

went through the same thing when we went down to 12 hours. It was

almost like leaving the brace on longer was easier! He just has to get used

to wearing it at night only- It is just like getting used to wearing the

brace all over again. He is so used to being " free " during the day, the he

can't get used to wearing it at night. It will get easier.

2/9/04 DBB 12 hours

Gerace cgerace@...> wrote:

Ever since we have been given " nights only " with the DBB our nights have

been HELL!!!!! I cannot take it any longer. Christian is getting up every

two hours! 11:00 p.m., 1:00 a.m., 3:00 a.m. and 5:00 a.m.!!!!!!!! He isn't

hungry or sick and when he wakes up crying he SCREAMS for more than an hour

unless I go in and console him! I feel like I am losing my mind. What is

going on? Anyone experience such a dramatic change?????

Mommy to (12-17-98) and

Christian (1-30-04) LCF - DBB (nights only)

February 3, 2005

And the other good news is, longer is better!!!

I hope it continues to work out.

Shook

Retail Operations Manager/Baking Instructor

Vie de France Yamazaki, Inc.

2070 Chain Bridge Rd. Suite 500

Vienna, VA 22182

x374

fax

February 3, 2005

Wow, I bet you feel all sorts of bran new this morning! Yippee!

s.

Re: I am at the end of my rope

went through the same thing when we went down to 12 hours. It was

almost like leaving the brace on longer was easier! He just has to get used

to wearing it at night only- It is just like getting used to wearing the

brace all over again. He is so used to being " free " during the day, the he

can't get used to wearing it at night. It will get easier.

2/9/04 DBB 12 hours

Gerace cgerace@...> wrote:

Ever since we have been given " nights only " with the DBB our nights have

been HELL!!!!! I cannot take it any longer. Christian is getting up every

two hours! 11:00 p.m., 1:00 a.m., 3:00 a.m. and 5:00 a.m.!!!!!!!! He isn't

hungry or sick and when he wakes up crying he SCREAMS for more than an hour

unless I go in and console him! I feel like I am losing my mind. What is

going on? Anyone experience such a dramatic change?????

Mommy to (12-17-98) and

Christian (1-30-04) LCF - DBB (nights only)

February 3, 2005

Woo-Hoo! You gotta love that, I just love it when I think Sammy is

going to have a " wakeful " night and he surprises me and sleeps all the

way thru. We'll keep our fingers crossed that you can keep getting

your z's.

> Ever since we have been given " nights only " with the DBB our nights have

> been HELL!!!!! I cannot take it any longer. Christian is getting

up every

> two hours! 11:00 p.m., 1:00 a.m., 3:00 a.m. and 5:00 a.m.!!!!!!!!

He isn't

> hungry or sick and when he wakes up crying he SCREAMS for more than

an hour

> unless I go in and console him! I feel like I am losing my mind.

What is

> going on? Anyone experience such a dramatic change?????

>

> Mommy to (12-17-98) and

>

> Christian (1-30-04) LCF - DBB (nights only)

>

February 3, 2005

HI ,

I have a question. My son (almost 3 month old) has

been wearing DBB for the past 2 weeks. Before we put

on the DBB we thought that we were blessed in the

sence that our baby usually slept from 9PM till 6AM

without waking up. He did this since he was a few

weeks old. But I've noticed that since we put on the

DBB he started waking up every 2-3 hours during the

night. Is that really because of the DBB? And we'll

he go back to his old schedule?

--- jagrindon jagrindon@...> wrote:

>

> Woo-Hoo! You gotta love that, I just love it when I

> think Sammy is

> going to have a " wakeful " night and he surprises me

> and sleeps all the

> way thru. We'll keep our fingers crossed that you

> can keep getting

> your z's.

>

> > Ever since we have been given " nights only " with

> the DBB our nights have

> > been HELL!!!!! I cannot take it any longer.

> Christian is getting

> up every

> > two hours! 11:00 p.m., 1:00 a.m., 3:00 a.m. and

> 5:00 a.m.!!!!!!!!

> He isn't

> > hungry or sick and when he wakes up crying he

> SCREAMS for more than

> an hour

> > unless I go in and console him! I feel like I am

> losing my mind.

> What is

> > going on? Anyone experience such a dramatic

> change?????

> >

> > Mommy to (12-17-98) and

> >

> > Christian (1-30-04) LCF - DBB (nights only)

> >

> > [Non-text portions of this message have been

> removed]

> >

February 3, 2005

,

It is hard to say if he is waking because of the DBB. If there is

nothing else going on with him and he has been doing it for 2 weeks

since he started wearing the brace it is likely the culprit. 2 wks.

should be enough time for him to get used to it but there are still a

lot of things that could be affecting his sleep in the brace. When he

wakes up is he crying as if in pain or does he just wake up and then

go back to sleep easily (with or without comfort?) My son is 4 months

and has been wearing the brace for about 6 weeks, he just started

waking in the night last weekend (he was sleeping through the night

before), I think it is because he is getting the brace tangled in the

covers because as soon as I go in and straighten them out he is out

like a light again. If you think this could be part of his problem

you might try the sleep sacks, there was a discussion about them here

last week, I think that is what I am going to try. The other thing

could be the length of the bar, have you measured to see if it is at

least as wide as his shoulders? If it is not wide enough I believe

this can cause them to be uncomfortable in the bar. I'm sure others

will have lots more suggestions -- everyone is very helpful here!

Good luck!

> > > Ever since we have been given " nights only " with

> > the DBB our nights have

> > > been HELL!!!!! I cannot take it any longer.

> > Christian is getting

> > up every

> > > two hours! 11:00 p.m., 1:00 a.m., 3:00 a.m. and

> > 5:00 a.m.!!!!!!!!

> > He isn't

> > > hungry or sick and when he wakes up crying he

> > SCREAMS for more than

> > an hour

> > > unless I go in and console him! I feel like I am

> > losing my mind.

> > What is

> > > going on? Anyone experience such a dramatic

> > change?????

> > >

> > > Mommy to (12-17-98) and

> > >

> > > Christian (1-30-04) LCF - DBB (nights only)

> > >

> > > [Non-text portions of this message have been

> > removed]

> > >

February 3, 2005

All babies are different, and some will go through spurts of sleeping all

night (5-6 hours is considered sleeping through for an infant this age) and

then not. My first two never did, but Darbi (my CF baby) was doing that at

a few weeks old, a few times a week or more often till she was about 5mo's

old. That stopped lol. Now she's 22mo's old and wakes at least twice a

night still to nurse. Often she's waking because she's tangled in the

covers. Other than the obvious painful period where her shoes weren't

fitting properly and she got that awful sore her sleeping patterns didn't

change with DBB wear. I do however give her some concessions now because

she is wearing it and I'm sure when she wakes it'd more difficult to self

comfort quickly because she has to haul the brace over if she wants to roll

or whatever. I'm sure she wakes a little more than she would without it

(of course she can't sleep without it not, she's more wakeful if it's not

on actually).

It is also normal for a child this age to wake every 2-3 hours at night,

especially if he's nursing. And you're right, you were blessed with him

sleeping that long before.

With all that said... it is more than likely that the DBB is causing him

to be wakeful. If he's nursing, you can take him to bed with you and side

lie nurse which will allow you both to go right back to sleep (if you're

sleep deprived by now). He should also get more used to wearing it while

sleeping, especially if he's doing 23/7 for 3mo's and (as we saw yesterday

with Christian) not dropped too suddenly to too few hours.

How is he tolerating it during the day? If all is well with everything

else, I'm thinking you'll just have to work through it or come up with some

way to calm him quickly so he can go back to sleep. I do know that if it

takes a while to get to baby, he's going to be very awake by the time you

get there which will make it more difficult to get back to sleep. For both

of you lol!

Good luck! Hang in there, it WILL get better!

Kori

At 10:44 AM 2/3/2005, you wrote:

>HI ,

>

>I have a question. My son (almost 3 month old) has

>been wearing DBB for the past 2 weeks. Before we put

>on the DBB we thought that we were blessed in the

>sence that our baby usually slept from 9PM till 6AM

>without waking up. He did this since he was a few

>weeks old. But I've noticed that since we put on the

>DBB he started waking up every 2-3 hours during the

>night. Is that really because of the DBB? And we'll

>he go back to his old schedule?

>

>--- jagrindon jagrindon@...> wrote:

>

> >

> > Woo-Hoo! You gotta love that, I just love it when I

> > think Sammy is

> > going to have a " wakeful " night and he surprises me

> > and sleeps all the

> > way thru. We'll keep our fingers crossed that you

> > can keep getting

> > your z's.

> >

> > > Ever since we have been given " nights only " with

> > the DBB our nights have

> > > been HELL!!!!! I cannot take it any longer.

> > Christian is getting

> > up every

> > > two hours! 11:00 p.m., 1:00 a.m., 3:00 a.m. and

> > 5:00 a.m.!!!!!!!!

> > He isn't

> > > hungry or sick and when he wakes up crying he

> > SCREAMS for more than

> > an hour

> > > unless I go in and console him! I feel like I am

> > losing my mind.

> > What is

> > > going on? Anyone experience such a dramatic

> > change?????

> > >

> > > Mommy to (12-17-98) and

> > >

> > > Christian (1-30-04) LCF - DBB (nights only)

> > >

> > > [Non-text portions of this message have been

> > removed]

> > >

February 3, 2005

I have just recently started having this problem with . She

has been in the brace 23/7 for almost 3 weeks and for the past

couple of nights has been waking up quite often. She sleeps with me

b/c I still bf her but why all of the sudden is she doing this?

During the day she is fine with them on and I bf her to sleep and

she is ok. but all of the sudden she wakes up 3-5 times a night like

she cant find a comfortable position to sleep in. She takes good

naps during the day SO WHAT IS GOING ON? I usually let her out of

the brace in the evenings could i be putting the brace too tight?

HELP!!

and

BL CF 12/16/03

s 23/7

?

> > > > Ever since we have been given " nights only " with

> > > the DBB our nights have

> > > > been HELL!!!!! I cannot take it any longer.

> > > Christian is getting

> > > up every

> > > > two hours! 11:00 p.m., 1:00 a.m., 3:00 a.m. and

> > > 5:00 a.m.!!!!!!!!

> > > He isn't

> > > > hungry or sick and when he wakes up crying he

> > > SCREAMS for more than

> > > an hour

> > > > unless I go in and console him! I feel like I am

> > > losing my mind.

> > > What is

> > > > going on? Anyone experience such a dramatic

> > > change?????

> > > >

> > > > Mommy to (12-17-98) and

> > > >

> > > > Christian (1-30-04) LCF - DBB (nights only)

> > > >

> > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been

> > > removed]

> > > >

February 3, 2005

,

I find that if I do her 'bedtime stuff' and get her jammies on early in the

evening so she has a chance to " settle " in to her shoes for awhile before she

goes to sleep, she sleeps better. Don't understand it but hey - whatever works.

You might try taking her shoes off earlier in the day to see if that helps.