Re: DS Not eating, worries and concerns

[Guest guest]

> Despite our inability to digest disaccharide carbohydrates, I do not think

it necessary to

> revert to pre historic diets.

I know there are people out there advocating returning to pre-historic

diets (I heard of one man who cracks open huge beef bones and eats the

marrow raw...). The diets I'm thinking of are not advocating that. These

diets teach people to eat with the same protein:carb ratio as in

hunter-gatherer diets, to get the impressive health benefits of that ratio.

I'm thinking of two books about one diet and a book about a different

diet -- if you looked through these, you'd see all sorts of recipes for home

cooking (with lots of fresh ingredients and lots of " convenience foods " ,

too); advice on what to eat at fast food restaurants to get a good

protein:carb ratio and avoid " bad fats " like hydrogenated oils; suggestions

for what to order at all different kinds of ethnic restaurants to (again)

have a meal with a good protein:carb ratio; instructions for how to

" splurge " on a decadent dessert now and again without " blowing your

metabolism out of the water " ; examples of how you can " beef up " a TV dinner

to make the protein:carb ratio better. At least one book teaches you how to

calculate insulin-stimulating carbs from information on the nutrition labels

on processed foods.

These diets aren't about extreme exclusion -- except for hazardous

over-processed foods like trans fats. The authors want to " reach everybody "

including the folks who really don't want to cook! But they do also, in

very quiet ways, encourage people to cook with fresh produce (and -- shh! --

one book even mentions organically grown food, back on about page 247!)

Kayla

[Guest guest]

>

> > Despite our inability to digest disaccharide carbohydrates, I do not think

> it necessary to

> > revert to pre historic diets.

I'm thinking of two books about one diet and a book about a different

> diet -- if you looked through these, you'd see all sorts of recipes for home

> cooking (with lots of fresh ingredients and lots of " convenience foods " ,

> too); advice on what to eat at fast food restaurants to get a good

> protein:carb ratio and avoid " bad fats " like hydrogenated oils; suggestions

> for what to order at all different kinds of ethnic restaurants to (again)

> have a meal with a good protein:carb ratio; instructions for how to

> " splurge " on a decadent dessert now and again without " blowing your

> metabolism out of the water " ; examples of how you can " beef up " a TV dinner

> to make the protein:carb ratio better. At least one book teaches you how to

> calculate insulin-stimulating carbs from information on the nutrition labels

> on processed foods.

> These diets aren't about extreme exclusion

What is their relevance to SCD>?

Kayla

I agree that it is always good to enlarge our knowlege and pursue learning.

Personally I

often adapt recipes to SCD from other sources so I appreciate your intent.

Right now we have to focus on SCD and it is important not to get confused with

other

diets and feeding suggestions. These books might be of interest to people who

have

healed. We have been asked not to discuss other diets here to protect newcomers

from

confusion. SCD is a big change for people who have been on other diets.

If people are interested they will email you but for now it is best not to

introduce

discussion of them on Pecanbread.

Just my opinion though.

By now everyone knows I am pretty fixated on SCD,. After six whole years I am

not not

tired of it yet as every day brings new discoveries and ideas.

Carol F.

SCD 6 years, celiac

[Guest guest]

Carol wrote: " Symptoms of ketosis include general tiredness, abrupt or

gradually increasing weakness,

dizziness, headaches, confusion, abdominal pain, irritability, nausea and

vomiting, sleep

problems and bad breath. [Cleveland Clinic Journal of Medicine 68(2001): p.761] "

This scares me a little because this is kind of what I've been progressively

been feeling. I am feeling weaker everyday, have had a relentless headache, mix

my words, my abdominal pain is probably just my digestion, I've also had nausea

for the last couple of days. I'm more tired and feeing quite dizzy. I think

I'll back off on the protein for awhile. I don't think I eat more protein than

others on this list but wondering if because of my " high " metabolic rate, I am

not metabolizing the protein like others...any thoughts?

Gwen

Luca-3 yrs,

scd 6 weeks for digestive problems and low weight gain for ds

carolfrilegh wrote:

>

drawn to the laxative effect of fruit.

> The other concern I have, is our protein intake. WE eat sooooo much

protein. I feel

buzzy all the time and I think ds does too. He has been so restless at night.

He had been

sleeping fairly well until we started the diet again. Does anyone know if too

much protein

can cause a buzzy feeling. I don't think it is die off anymore.

> I think we should be eating more carbs than protein as this seems more

balanced. Am

I correct?

> Also wondering where you get your HCI?

We burn fat all the time; it's only when one is carbohydrate deficient and has

to burn fat

ineffectively that one goes into a state of ketosis - when you have so much

acetone in your

blood that it noticeably spills out into your lungs, or so many other ketones

that they spill

out into your urine.

In biochemistry class, doctors learn that fat " burns in the flame of

carbohydrate. " When

you're eating enough carbohydrates, fat can be completely broken down as well.

But when

your body runs out of carb fuel to burn, your body's only choice is to burn fat

inefficiently

using a pathway that produces toxic byproducts like acetone and other ketones.

Symptoms of ketosis include general tiredness, abrupt or gradually increasing

weakness,

dizziness, headaches, confusion, abdominal pain, irritability, nausea and

vomiting, sleep

problems and bad breath. [Cleveland Clinic Journal of Medicine 68(2001): p.761]

Carol F.

SCD 6 years, celiac

For information on the Specific Carbohydrate Diet, please read the book

_Breaking the Vicious Cycle_ by Elaine Gottschall and read the following

websites:

http://www.breakingtheviciouscycle.info

and

http://www.pecanbread.com

[Guest guest]

Hi everyone who has participated in this discussion.

I have learned so much. I need to have a discussion about this as I am a very

questioning person. I do not mean to come on here and stir up trouble...LOL:)

I don't want people to feel confused but to tell you the truth, I am confused

though coming out of it a little everyday. This diet is not the only one

presented to me as a cure though I'm drawn to it for its science and success.

My situation with my son and I are not a fraction as problematic as it is for

most of you on here. So I question whether this diet is the absolute answer for

us. I've realized that this isn't the best place to discuss that question

though because I, too, believe that absolute adherance to this diet is essential

the healing of autism, chrone's, colitis, celiac, etc. But the science is there

and that's what we like about it...so for me, I need more science to decide if

the science that supports this diet is right for us. Through this discussion and

others I have realized my need for a little more proof. We are doing the diet

though not as strictly as others...and I know we have to if we are really

" doing " the diet. The food in our house is

SCD all the way but the supps still need some work. Anyway, in the end after

all the research, discussion and test results, I have still have to use my

intuition. There's always conflicting information and that's what is so

unsettling for me. Because all the authors of such information mean well. The

prehistoric ratios for protein:carbs even differs depending on what source we

are looking out. Whatever.. Anyway, I so appreciate this diet and how it has

helped everyone on here. I, also, appreciate thinking, questioning minds

because now that Elaine has passed, we must go on and no doubt this diet will

become better and better over time as we start discover how each individual can

thrive on the diet. So this diet in its flexibility and no one prescribed ratio

or routine, is suited and tailored to many different individuals.

THanks everyone, I'm feeling clearer minded about this even as I'm feeling

weaker and dizzier:)

Gwen

Luca-3

SCD for digestive issues and low growth rate for ds

" Today a new sun rises for me; everything lives,

everything is animated, everything seems to speak

to me of my passion, everything invites me to cherish it. "

--Anne de Lenclos--

---------------------------------

How low will we go? Check out Yahoo! Messenger’s low PC-to-Phone call rates.

[Guest guest]

>

> Hi everyone who has participated in this discussion.

>

> I have learned so much. I need to have a discussion about this as I am a

very

questioning person. I do not mean to come on here and stir up trouble...LOL:)

> I don't want people to feel confused but to tell you the truth, I am

confused though

coming out of it a little everyday. This diet is not the only one presented to

me as a cure

though I'm drawn to it for its science and success.

>>>>>>

Anyway, in the end after all the research, discussion and test results, I

have still have to

use my intuition. There's always conflicting information and that's what is so

unsettling

for me. Because all the authors of such information mean well. The prehistoric

ratios for

protein:carbs even differs depending on what source we are looking out.

Whatever..

Anyway, I so appreciate this diet and how it has helped everyone on here. I,

also,

appreciate thinking, questioning minds because now that Elaine has passed, we

must go

on and no doubt this diet will become better and better over time as we start

discover how

each individual can thrive on the diet. So this diet in its flexibility and no

one prescribed

ratio or routine, is suited and tailored to many different individuals.

>

> THanks everyone, I'm feeling clearer minded about this even as I'm feeling

weaker and

dizzier:)

>

> Gwen

> Luca-3

Dear Gwen,

I know how difficult changing diets and seeking solutions can be. I know how we

have

many bad days and long for more good days and answers that hold water.

SCD is not combined with other diet protocols or modified although allowed

foods can be

rotated or if necessary eliminated. Excluded foods are not to be added.

Elaine's passing means preserving the integrity of the diet as she carried it on

from Dr.

Haas, not changing it unless there is substantial reearch to validate that.

Most support lists for a particular purpose are strict and restrictive. Our

moderators Jody

and Sheila are fairly flexible but we are all agreed when it comes to keeping

SCD in tact.

When people subscribe to Pecanbread they are directed to the following

guidelines which

may clarify comments on discussion of other diets and linking them to SCD.

These are the guidelines for the list you may have missed.

GUIDELINES FOR THE PECANBREAD LIST

1. We ask that people familiarize themselves with the book " Breaking the Vicious

Cycle " , by Elaine Gottschall (henceforth referred to as BTVC) and the website

www.breakingtheviciouscycle.info before posting questions to the list. This is

due to the high volume of mail on the list and repetition in questions that are

answered easily in the book or on the website.

2. We also ask that people familiarize themselves with the website for this

group, www.pecanbread.com before posting to the list. The website is full of

valuable information such as recipes (90% of which are dairy free and some that

are egg free), questions on how to transition a child and difficult issues like

picky eaters, etc. Again this is due to the high volume of mail on the list and

repetition in questions that are answered on the pecanbread website.

3. Elaine and the list do not support modifications to the diet in BTVC being

proposed as a general rule for all on the diet. Every individual will find

certain foods are agreeable or not agreeable and, using common sense, these

adjustments can be made by each individual. Modifying the diet for the general

public is not endorsed by the author or this list.

4. To assist the answering of questions we ask that people sign their e-mails

with their condition and length of time on SCD. Also if pertinent to the

question asked, any information regarding medications and/or supplements etc.

that will aid those responding.

5. Please trim posts appropriately. Again, this is due to the size of the group

and volume of daily mail. Untrimmed posts use up our archive space more

quickly.

6. If you feel your post is Off Topic please put this in the subject line, " Off

topic " or " OT " , out of respect for those who do not have time to read through

all posts.

7. Discussions and advertising of alternative diets, illegal foods, treatments

that are not recommended, or other subjects that are not part of the science and

practices of SCD are not allowed on the list. This does include references made

in the body of an e-mail, subject lines and signature lines.

This rule is done to protect those new to SCD and to avoid confusion.

I hope SCD ultimately proves useful to you if you choose it, and you find you

are able to

follow it. A one month trial usually indicates whether it is being effective for

an individual.

We will all give you as much support and information as possible to help you

succeed.

All the best,

Carol F.

SCD 6 years, celiac

[Guest guest]

Carol wrote: " Symptoms of ketosis include general tiredness, abrupt or

gradually increasing weakness,

dizziness, headaches, confusion, abdominal pain, irritability, nausea and

vomiting, sleep

problems and bad breath. [Cleveland Clinic Journal of Medicine 68(2001): p.761] "

Dear Gwen and to all,

I thought the signs of die off where similar? Gwen I thought you where in the

beginning of the SCDiet....and at that not fully complying until recently....

This could be die off? Ketosis " bad breath " smells " fruity " . Hope this

helps...and it is undeniably fruity like juicy fruit gum! Get someone to smell

your breath for you....they will know, it is a strong funny sweet smell....if

yes then get to the doctor.

We have always contributed the symptoms mentioned above with die off and

yeast/microorganism overgrowth. Each week these symptoms are becoming

less....it is like a rolley-coaster ride every day....feel well some of the day

worse the next part...each day getting better. We try to concentrate on the

success and not the bad things.

Now day 46 (strict SCD) family problems Celiac, leaky gut, ADD, ADHD, ASD and

mental illness and more...been a little worried about what the BTVC book talks

about " relapse " of symptoms around two to three months. Gwen could this be it

also, I can't remember how much time you have.

Could people please put there time on their messages...this would help us all a

lot!

Sincerely, Antoinette

---------------------------------

For information on the Specific Carbohydrate Diet, please read the book

_Breaking the Vicious Cycle_ by Elaine Gottschall and read the following

websites:

http://www.breakingtheviciouscycle.info<http://www.breakingtheviciouscycle.info/\

>

and

http://www.pecanbread.com<http://www.pecanbread.com/>

[Guest guest]

Get the ketosis test strips from to health food store; so you'll know for sure.

It might also be die off or a food sensitivity.

Agape, brandi

Gwen Pollara wrote:

Carol wrote: " Symptoms of ketosis include general tiredness, abrupt or

gradually increasing weakness,

dizziness, headaches, confusion, abdominal pain, irritability, nausea and

vomiting, sleep

problems and bad breath. [Cleveland Clinic Journal of Medicine 68(2001): p.761] "

This scares me a little because this is kind of what I've been progressively

been feeling. I am feeling weaker everyday, have had a relentless headache, mix

my words, my abdominal pain is probably just my digestion, I've also had nausea

for the last couple of days. I'm more tired and feeing quite dizzy. I think

I'll back off on the protein for awhile. I don't think I eat more protein than

others on this list but wondering if because of my " high " metabolic rate, I am

not metabolizing the protein like others...any thoughts?

Gwen

Luca-3 yrs,

scd 6 weeks for digestive problems and low weight gain for ds

carolfrilegh wrote:

>

drawn to the laxative effect of fruit.

> The other concern I have, is our protein intake. WE eat sooooo much

protein. I feel

buzzy all the time and I think ds does too. He has been so restless at night.

He had been

sleeping fairly well until we started the diet again. Does anyone know if too

much protein

can cause a buzzy feeling. I don't think it is die off anymore.

> I think we should be eating more carbs than protein as this seems more

balanced. Am

I correct?

> Also wondering where you get your HCI?

We burn fat all the time; it's only when one is carbohydrate deficient and has

to burn fat

ineffectively that one goes into a state of ketosis - when you have so much

acetone in your

blood that it noticeably spills out into your lungs, or so many other ketones

that they spill

out into your urine.

In biochemistry class, doctors learn that fat " burns in the flame of

carbohydrate. " When

you're eating enough carbohydrates, fat can be completely broken down as well.

But when

your body runs out of carb fuel to burn, your body's only choice is to burn fat

inefficiently

using a pathway that produces toxic byproducts like acetone and other ketones.

Symptoms of ketosis include general tiredness, abrupt or gradually increasing

weakness,

dizziness, headaches, confusion, abdominal pain, irritability, nausea and

vomiting, sleep

problems and bad breath. [Cleveland Clinic Journal of Medicine 68(2001): p.761]

Carol F.

SCD 6 years, celiac

For information on the Specific Carbohydrate Diet, please read the book

_Breaking the Vicious Cycle_ by Elaine Gottschall and read the following

websites:

http://www.breakingtheviciouscycle.info

and

http://www.pecanbread.com

[Guest guest]

Hi Carol,

Don't worry, this is my last post on this topic!

About the other diets...you wrote:

> What is their relevance to SCD?

Actually, I don't think these other diets are very relevant to SCD, until

very, very late in SCD when people are symptom-free and " counting down the

months " til they can, if they wish, try going back to eating a more " normal "

diet. I think you and I actually agree on this!

I don't think there's any substitute for SCD. I'd never recommend

abandoning SCD, if you've got the kinds of gut troubles that SCD can heal.

I do think that some other diets have useful things to teach us, that could

be applied within SCD with good results.

But that's not why I got to talking about other diets. I started talking

about this stuff because somebody re-posted previously recommended diet

" standards " of 50-55% carbs, 15-20% protein, 30% fat.

I've studied protein:carb:fat ratios for several years now and according to

what I know, these standards are a prescription for protein deficiency,

insulin resistance, and seriously damaging imbalance in the major metabolic

hormones and the eicosanoid hormones. My intent in my first post on this

topic was just to " raise a red flag " so people wouldn't adopt these

hazardous standards, not realizing lots of good docs and researchers

wouldn't recommend them. And then I got caught up in trying to clarify,

defend, etc.

I am genuinely sorry for any confusion I've caused!

I'm going to be dropping off the list for a while but if/when I return, I

will do my dangedest to keep my mouth closed about things I should keep my

mouth closed about!

Kayla

[Guest guest]

davis wrote: " Get the ketosis

test strips from to health food store; so you'll know for sure.

It might also be die off or a food sensitivity. "

or sleep deprivation and not eating enough and this darn cloudy weather that

we aren't used to here in sunny colorado! LOL:)

Gwen

Agape, brandi

Gwen Pollara wrote:

Carol wrote: " Symptoms of ketosis include general tiredness, abrupt or

gradually increasing weakness,

dizziness, headaches, confusion, abdominal pain, irritability, nausea and

vomiting, sleep

problems and bad breath. [Cleveland Clinic Journal of Medicine 68(2001): p.761] "

This scares me a little because this is kind of what I've been progressively

been feeling. I am feeling weaker everyday, have had a relentless headache, mix

my words, my abdominal pain is probably just my digestion, I've also had nausea

for the last couple of days. I'm more tired and feeing quite dizzy. I think

I'll back off on the protein for awhile. I don't think I eat more protein than

others on this list but wondering if because of my " high " metabolic rate, I am

not metabolizing the protein like others...any thoughts?

Gwen

Luca-3 yrs,

scd 6 weeks for digestive problems and low weight gain for ds

carolfrilegh wrote:

>

drawn to the laxative effect of fruit.

> The other concern I have, is our protein intake. WE eat sooooo much

protein. I feel

buzzy all the time and I think ds does too. He has been so restless at night.

He had been

sleeping fairly well until we started the diet again. Does anyone know if too

much protein

can cause a buzzy feeling. I don't think it is die off anymore.

> I think we should be eating more carbs than protein as this seems more

balanced. Am

I correct?

> Also wondering where you get your HCI?

We burn fat all the time; it's only when one is carbohydrate deficient and has

to burn fat

ineffectively that one goes into a state of ketosis - when you have so much

acetone in your

blood that it noticeably spills out into your lungs, or so many other ketones

that they spill

out into your urine.

In biochemistry class, doctors learn that fat " burns in the flame of

carbohydrate. " When

you're eating enough carbohydrates, fat can be completely broken down as well.

But when

your body runs out of carb fuel to burn, your body's only choice is to burn fat

inefficiently

using a pathway that produces toxic byproducts like acetone and other ketones.

Symptoms of ketosis include general tiredness, abrupt or gradually increasing

weakness,

dizziness, headaches, confusion, abdominal pain, irritability, nausea and

vomiting, sleep

problems and bad breath. [Cleveland Clinic Journal of Medicine 68(2001): p.761]

Carol F.

SCD 6 years, celiac

For information on the Specific Carbohydrate Diet, please read the book

_Breaking the Vicious Cycle_ by Elaine Gottschall and read the following

websites:

http://www.breakingtheviciouscycle.info

and

http://www.pecanbread.com

[Guest guest]

Gwen,

Are you sure you're getting enough calories daily? I would have symptoms

like yours if my daily intake dropped below 1800 calories several days in a

row.

Kayla

[Guest guest]

>

> > What is their relevance to SCD?

>

> Actually, I don't think these other diets are very relevant to SCD, until

> very, very late in SCD when people are symptom-free and " counting down the

> months " til they can, if they wish, try going back to eating a more " normal "

> diet. I think you and I actually agree on this!

>

> I don't think there's any substitute for SCD. I'd never recommend

> abandoning SCD, if you've got the kinds of gut troubles that SCD can heal.

>

> I do think that some other diets have useful things to teach us, that could

> be applied within SCD with good results.

>

> But that's not why I got to talking about other diets. I started talking

> about this stuff because somebody re-posted previously recommended diet

> " standards " of 50-55% carbs, 15-20% protein, 30% fat.

>

> I've studied protein:carb:fat ratios for several years now and according to

> what I know, these standards are a prescription for protein deficiency,

> insulin resistance, and seriously damaging imbalance in the major metabolic

> hormones and the eicosanoid hormones. My intent in my first post on this

> topic was just to " raise a red flag " so people wouldn't adopt these

> hazardous standards, not realizing lots of good docs and researchers

> wouldn't recommend them. And then I got caught up in trying to clarify,

> defend, etc.

>

> I am genuinely sorry for any confusion I've caused!

>

> I'm going to be dropping off the list for a while but if/when I return, I

> will do my dangedest to keep my mouth closed about things I should keep my

> mouth closed about!

>

> Kayla

>

My post was intended for evryone or I'd of emailed you privately so i hope you

did not tke

offence and are not leavig on that account and ill be returning as promised. As

an adult

and with many years of other types of dieting I personally have struck a pretty

balanced

ration between fats, carbs and proteins.

Carol F.

[Guest guest]

Carol said:

We burn fat all the time; it's only when one is carbohydrate deficient and has

to burn fat

ineffectively that one goes into a state of ketosis - when you have so much

acetone in your

blood that it noticeably spills out into your lungs, or so many other ketones

that they spill

out into your urine.

Like to add:

Ketosis is also a sign of diabetes. This is why the fruity breath is a sign of

diabetes too! Some say it smells as if they have been " drinking " because it

make one act a little goofy too....and then with this fruity smell....it can

smell like it too.

Antoinette

Re: DS Not eating, worries and concerns

>

drawn to the laxative effect of fruit.

> The other concern I have, is our protein intake. WE eat sooooo much

protein. I feel

buzzy all the time and I think ds does too. He has been so restless at night.

He had been

sleeping fairly well until we started the diet again. Does anyone know if too

much protein

can cause a buzzy feeling. I don't think it is die off anymore.

> I think we should be eating more carbs than protein as this seems more

balanced. Am

I correct?

> Also wondering where you get your HCI?

In biochemistry class, doctors learn that fat " burns in the flame of

carbohydrate. " When

you're eating enough carbohydrates, fat can be completely broken down as well.

But when

your body runs out of carb fuel to burn, your body's only choice is to burn

fat inefficiently

using a pathway that produces toxic byproducts like acetone and other ketones.

Symptoms of ketosis include general tiredness, abrupt or gradually increasing

weakness,

dizziness, headaches, confusion, abdominal pain, irritability, nausea and

vomiting, sleep

problems and bad breath. [Cleveland Clinic Journal of Medicine 68(2001):

p.761]

Carol F.

SCD 6 years, celiac

For information on the Specific Carbohydrate Diet, please read the book

_Breaking the Vicious Cycle_ by Elaine Gottschall and read the following

websites:

http://www.breakingtheviciouscycle.info<http://www.breakingtheviciouscycle.info/\

>

and

http://www.pecanbread.com<http://www.pecanbread.com/>

[Guest guest]

Hi Brent,

Out of curiousity. Which SCD multi vitamin do you use for Ella? Do you use

Freeda or Kirkman children capsules?

and Elle have to be on Brain Child (the SCD allowable version). But I

need to find a new kids' multi vitamin for Margeaux. She currently is on one

that I appears to be legal; however, it is an adult vitamin and she hates it.

Jeni Lynn (gastrointestinal problems)

SCD 2 months

mom to Margeaux, 6 yr. (heavy metal toxicity, ADD, gastrointestinal problems)

, 3 yr. (heavy metal toxicity, risk for ADD, gastrointestinal problems)

Elle, 18 mo. (heavy metal toxicity, leaky gut, eczema, formerly at risk for

autism)

SCD 4 months

Re: DS Not eating, worries and concerns

For us it has been going very very slowly and watching intensely the

changes that occur.

We're still on the first groupings of foods for tolerance at 5

months. Its very basic still pureed green beans, squash, pearsauce,

bananas. We've been giving soup with bone broth, meats and eggs, the

same grape juice mixture as well and then the SCD Multi Vitamin.

Instead of going down the list quickly we've been upping the quantity

of these as well as the goat yogurt since its so beneficial one step

at a time. Mostly its just the pearsauce, bananas that I keep in

check and move up and down in quantity until her stools form. ALL

else stays the same. She gets little green beans and little squash.

Measuring out in tablespoons of the pearsauce helps. Finding out

that Ella is much more senstive to sugar late in the day helped. Even

a warm bath would cause her bowels to move about 20-30 mintues later

before she was ready to have a fully formed stool sometimes. It took

me three months to figure this out.

Ultimately we might sacrifice moveing faster but we're developing

knowledge base there since we try to keep it very simple and basic

and move one slow step at a time to see how a change effects her.

Its taken a whole month for instance to move from 1/8th tsp up to

several tablespoons now of yogurt. It took us probably three months

to get all the illegals out. I have almond flour in the freezer but

didn't want to confuse the issue in how she would be handling the

increased yogurt. Nor did I add any other foods during this time

save for a small amount of purreed carots.

It is a puzzle as Summer as commented about. Time sure helps. By

watching closely you begin to pick up the nuances. Feeding foods

together for a mixture...instead of all meat then sauces later may

help you? Perhaps you already do this? It took us a lot of time to

find this point that gives the trophies. We learned that she was

sensitive still to dairy early on and once we eliminated that her

stools formed up again. ALL the while though we would have

regressions we'd learn something from them and correct it. Ella

still was healing during this process and has she grows more tolerant

now there is more leeway in her diet. She doesn't react as violently

anymore thats for sure. She snaps back quicker after our babysitter

gave her two ripe bananas late in the evening when instructred not

too Aargh! With the two soft stools that followed I leaned much

heavier on the meats/eggs/soup...scaled back on her glucose/fructose

and the third stool was a trophy again.

Charting what happens after each food change helps immensely. For us

it was realizing Ella had a problem with even simple sugars in

quanitity. Thus finding that right quantity of grape juice/water

bananas and pearsauce really helped. This is her manipulation point

at this time now along with the yogurt.

Ellas problem was always diarrhea and never constipation. Perhaps

its been a bit less complex because of that.

WIshing you much healing and continued discovery,

Brent

> > Hi,

> >

> > I have only a few minutes to write but wanted to respond

to

> this...

> >

> > > According to standards that Jody posted a couple weeks ago.

We

> are

> > supposed to have 50 - 55%

> > > carb intake, 30% fat, and 15 - 20% protein.

> >

> > I don't know where the standards Jody posted came from,

or

> whether they are

> > supposed to be for adults, children, or both -- but I can tell

you

> that many

> > medical researchers and doctors would disagree with these

> standards, at

> > least for adults...particularly the researchers/doctors who are

> > *successfully* treating (without the usual dead-end allopathic

> drugs)

> > obesity, Type II diabetes, high blood pressure, heart disease,

and

> related

> > health problems. These folks would say lower (or much, much

lower)

> carb

> > intake (especially insulin-stimulating carbs), higher protein,

fat

> about the

> > same or somewhat higher (depending on calorie needs).

> >

> > I'm hesitant to write more because we're not supposed to

> recommend/discuss

> > other diets on this list, and most of the readily available

> information in

> > this area is in the form of books/articles/websites etc. on

> > diet...obviously.

> >

> > Maybe I can just point out that in the traditional diets

of

> the Arctic

> > peoples, about 70% of calories came from animal fats (blubber!)

and

> about

> > 30% of calories came from animal protein. Extremely little

> carbohydrate was

> > eaten. The Arctic natives were legendary for their strength

and

> endurance.

> > European explorers who adopted the native diet while exploring

in

> the Arctic

> > thrived on it.

> >

> > Kayla

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > For information on the Specific Carbohydrate Diet, please read

the

> book _Breaking the Vicious Cycle_ by Elaine Gottschall and read

the

> following websites:

> >

http://www.breakingtheviciouscycle.info<http://www.breakingtheviciousc<http://ww\

w.breakingtheviciouscycle.info<http://www.breakingtheviciousc>

ycle.info/>

> > and

> >

http://www.pecanbread.com<http://www.pecanbread.com/<http://www.pecanbread.com<h\

ttp://www.pecanbread.com/>>

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

Kayla,

Don't go; you're smart and helpful.

I'll miss you.

Agape,

Wildman wrote:

Hi Carol,

Don't worry, this is my last post on this topic!

About the other diets...you wrote:

> What is their relevance to SCD?

Actually, I don't think these other diets are very relevant to SCD, until

very, very late in SCD when people are symptom-free and " counting down the

months " til they can, if they wish, try going back to eating a more " normal "

diet. I think you and I actually agree on this!

I don't think there's any substitute for SCD. I'd never recommend

abandoning SCD, if you've got the kinds of gut troubles that SCD can heal.

I do think that some other diets have useful things to teach us, that

could

be applied within SCD with good results.

But that's not why I got to talking about other diets. I started talking

about this stuff because somebody re-posted previously recommended diet

" standards " of 50-55% carbs, 15-20% protein, 30% fat.

I've studied protein:carb:fat ratios for several years now and according

to

what I know, these standards are a prescription for protein deficiency,

insulin resistance, and seriously damaging imbalance in the major metabolic

hormones and the eicosanoid hormones. My intent in my first post on this

topic was just to " raise a red flag " so people wouldn't adopt these

hazardous standards, not realizing lots of good docs and researchers

wouldn't recommend them. And then I got caught up in trying to clarify,

defend, etc.

I am genuinely sorry for any confusion I've caused!

I'm going to be dropping off the list for a while but if/when I return, I

will do my dangedest to keep my mouth closed about things I should keep my

mouth closed about!

Kayla

For information on the Specific Carbohydrate Diet, please read the book

_Breaking the Vicious Cycle_ by Elaine Gottschall and read the following

websites:

http://www.breakingtheviciouscycle.info

and

http://www.pecanbread.com

[Guest guest]

Sleep deprivation is the worst!

Agape,

Gwen Pollara wrote:

davis wrote: " Get the ketosis

test strips from to health food store; so you'll know for sure.

It might also be die off or a food sensitivity. "

or sleep deprivation and not eating enough and this darn cloudy weather that

we aren't used to here in sunny colorado! LOL:)

Gwen

Agape, brandi

Gwen Pollara wrote:

Carol wrote: " Symptoms of ketosis include general tiredness, abrupt or

gradually increasing weakness,

dizziness, headaches, confusion, abdominal pain, irritability, nausea and

vomiting, sleep

problems and bad breath. [Cleveland Clinic Journal of Medicine 68(2001): p.761] "

This scares me a little because this is kind of what I've been progressively

been feeling. I am feeling weaker everyday, have had a relentless headache, mix

my words, my abdominal pain is probably just my digestion, I've also had nausea

for the last couple of days. I'm more tired and feeing quite dizzy. I think

I'll back off on the protein for awhile. I don't think I eat more protein than

others on this list but wondering if because of my " high " metabolic rate, I am

not metabolizing the protein like others...any thoughts?

Gwen

Luca-3 yrs,

scd 6 weeks for digestive problems and low weight gain for ds

carolfrilegh wrote:

>

drawn to the laxative effect of fruit.

> The other concern I have, is our protein intake. WE eat sooooo much

protein. I feel

buzzy all the time and I think ds does too. He has been so restless at night.

He had been

sleeping fairly well until we started the diet again. Does anyone know if too

much protein

can cause a buzzy feeling. I don't think it is die off anymore.

> I think we should be eating more carbs than protein as this seems more

balanced. Am

I correct?

> Also wondering where you get your HCI?

We burn fat all the time; it's only when one is carbohydrate deficient and has

to burn fat

ineffectively that one goes into a state of ketosis - when you have so much

acetone in your

blood that it noticeably spills out into your lungs, or so many other ketones

that they spill

out into your urine.

In biochemistry class, doctors learn that fat " burns in the flame of

carbohydrate. " When

you're eating enough carbohydrates, fat can be completely broken down as well.

But when

your body runs out of carb fuel to burn, your body's only choice is to burn fat

inefficiently

using a pathway that produces toxic byproducts like acetone and other ketones.

Symptoms of ketosis include general tiredness, abrupt or gradually increasing

weakness,

dizziness, headaches, confusion, abdominal pain, irritability, nausea and

vomiting, sleep

problems and bad breath. [Cleveland Clinic Journal of Medicine 68(2001): p.761]

Carol F.

SCD 6 years, celiac

For information on the Specific Carbohydrate Diet, please read the book

_Breaking the Vicious Cycle_ by Elaine Gottschall and read the following

websites:

http://www.breakingtheviciouscycle.info

and

http://www.pecanbread.com

[Guest guest]

Hi Jeni Lynn

We use the Freeda SCD Multi_Vitamin from Lucy's. Its disgusting to

the taste. I grind it and try to sandwich it into pearsauce. For

Ella I give it twice a day. Sometimes I plug her nose or she will.

She always has a juice/water cup nearby to wash it down quickly. Its

not pleasant either I " m afraid.

Brent

> Hi Brent,

>

> Out of curiousity. Which SCD multi vitamin do you use for Ella?

Do you use Freeda or Kirkman children capsules?

>

> and Elle have to be on Brain Child (the SCD allowable

version). But I need to find a new kids' multi vitamin for

Margeaux. She currently is on one that I appears to be legal;

however, it is an adult vitamin and she hates it.

>

> Jeni Lynn (gastrointestinal problems)

> SCD 2 months

> mom to Margeaux, 6 yr. (heavy metal toxicity, ADD, gastrointestinal

problems)

> , 3 yr. (heavy metal toxicity, risk for ADD, gastrointestinal

problems)

> Elle, 18 mo. (heavy metal toxicity, leaky gut, eczema, formerly at

risk for autism)

> SCD 4 months

> ----- Original Message -----

>

[Guest guest]

Sorry. I should have said I break it in two halfs and give it am and

pm. Ella is 4 and Elaine recommended 1 tablet a day for kids, per

Lucy's website.

Brent

> Hi Jeni Lynn

> We use the Freeda SCD Multi_Vitamin from Lucy's. Its disgusting to

> the taste. I grind it and try to sandwich it into pearsauce. For

> Ella I give it twice a day. Sometimes I plug her nose or she will.

> She always has a juice/water cup nearby to wash it down quickly. Its

> not pleasant either I " m afraid.

> Brent

>

[Guest guest]

Hi Gwen,

I started writing this days ago now, will finish it now then go on to your

other email if I have time...

I remembered your name from CC-Alt but not your son's story. There was a

mom whose little boy was at the 3rd %ile in weight, a mom who wasn't sure

whether to be worried about this or not, and the docs weren't being much

help. Was that you -- yes, now I know from your other message that this was

you.

Responding to your message...

Yes, I do think eating too much fruit will always cause diarrhea for little

kids.

> I believe in autonomy around eating and have some concern that he will

become obsessive about

> food

Well, I certainly don't believe in force-feeding kids, etc., but...For one

thing, in most traditional societies, children have very little choice about

what to eat and when. The diet is nutritious but rather monotonous and

nobody asks " What would you like for dinner today? "

In plenty of " modern " families the rule is " You eat what's served " and the

kids adapt. Perhaps each child gets to choose one " I don't eat that " food,

but only one. Or perhaps a child can eat just a small serving of a disliked

food -- but does have to eat it.

For me, autonomy around eating has to take a backseat to health. If I had

let my daughter decide what to eat, it would have been disastrous, no doubt

about it -- full-blown autism, serious under-eating and extremely poor

health and growth. A diet of green olives, passion fruit sorbet, and potato

chips just doesn't " cut it " ! Or a " white diet " of milk and refined wheat

products like so many autistic kids...

You know, I think my daughter's " eating experience " has made her not

obsessive about food, but flexible, adaptable, and creative about food. She

has learned that wanting something is not the same as needing it. She has

learned there are all sorts of ways to satisfy her appetite. She's learned

to savor a raisin and make it last five minutes, cheerfully, if one raisin

is all she can have -- instead of gobbling a handful of raisins without

really tasting them. She has learned to problem-solve about food and eating

(how can I make this taste better?) And she has learned to negotiate with

mommy!

> We tried eating some of the foods on the intro and I found them

repulsive...perhaps I'm

> not a good cook...LOL.

I'm not familiar with Elaine's intro diet -- read it more than once, but

since Dr. Natasha started us off, that's the start-up diet I know. Our

introductory foods are still favorites, especially Fluffy Soup in all its

countless variations. (I'm certainly not a great cook! Crockpot to the

rescue!) (Did you see my " Kayla's menus and recipes " post?)

> I'm also conflicted about whether to take N.C-McBride's advice on

> probiotics or Elaine's.

Sometimes I don't know what to think. Conflicting advice is confusing!

But it helps me to realize that different practitioners have different

*systems*. Dr. Natasha's probiotics recos work well within her particular

SCD *system*. Elaine's probiotics recos work well within her SCD *system*.

If a system works well for you, great; if not, perhaps a different system

will work better. But cobbling together parts of one system and parts of

another -- hmm, sometimes this synergism works beautifully and sometimes IT

JUST DON'T WORK.

So I don't know what to tell you about probiotics. Some people find

starting with tiny doses and working up works best for them. I've always

just plunged right in with full doses, without regrets.

> I think my child really does enjoy eating most of the time.

This sounds good!

> He loves food but some days he just seems to eat a few bites of a

> lot of different things.

That sounds ok, too.

> He eats a huge variety of foods except for veggies.

Uh oh. To me this means either poor digestion, or too much junk food

(which I don't think is your situation).

> I think that going back to cooking everything

> instead of raw will help.

Yes, I think that will help; but you need to get his gut healed so that raw

vegies are just fine with him. BTW, I haven't gotten my daughter to that

point yet!

> I also wonder if he just isn't a

> normal kid who just doesn't feel like eating his carrots.

Well, carrots are problematic for lots of folks to digest, from what I've

read on pecanbread. My daughter has also had a prejudice against carrots in

any form, including fresh homemade carrot juice. BUT if junk food isn't

being served, I really don't think normal kids dislike vegies! When my

daughter got through Dr. Natasha's intro diet, she started eagerly eating

vegies. I used to give her a plateful of assorted vegies for dinner every

night, just steamed and drizzled with a little oil, and she'd sit there and

work her way through them with great dedication...except for the carrots!

> We do a rotation diet without trying. I hate eating the same thing

> over and over again. We always try to mix it up though I will

> say that when I wasn't mixing it up that much, I felt fine. I

> don't know about ds.

>

Sounds good. I'm a creature of habit and have to make an effort to rotate.

> When I eat dairy,

> especially milk, I will tell you, that I feel great! I feel full

> and energetic. Milk is the only thing I really miss and I have

> to say it doesn't feel like a craving or addiction. Perhaps it

> because I need the calcium. I order calcium supps. I am not

> crazy aobut giving ds supps. I think he should get everything he

> needs through eating.

>

Do you drink raw milk?

Testing for lactose and casein problems sounds good.

Dr. Natasha, too, wants kids to get everything through eating though I

think she recommends cod liver oil and Udo's Choice Oil, and homemade yogurt

and/or sauerkraut, " for forever " . Oh, I'd love to be able to drop all the

supps, but my daughter is really dependent on things for now.

> " I think it helped that our kitchen at home was gluten-free, because of

> my own gluten intolerance. "

>

> Yes, I'm not there yet. My dh still eats muesli for breakfast.

> He refuses to get rid of it. He is careful not to get it

> anywhere but he just ain't giving it up. Got any suggestions for

> that one?

If he's very careful not to get it anywhere, and muesli for breakfast is

the only thing he's holding onto, hey, that's really good! Would he be

willing to have a special, distinctive bowl and spoon that's used only for

his muesli? And a sponge to wash it with that's not used for other things?

The only thing I'd worry about here is that muesli (at least the kind I used

to eat) is sort of " grain dusty " and if gluten dust gets in the air when he

pours it, not good. The more " quiet scooping " and the less pouring, the

better.

> Lastly, I would say that for myself, I'm doing good. I feel

> really great especially when I'm exercising and meditating. My

> gut is doing so much better and I'm learning what makes me feel

> ill. I would just like to find a probiotic that works for us.

> I'm taking acidophilus right now. I eat lots of yogurt with no

> ill affects. I cannot eat too much fermented foods.

>

All this sounds good! I hope your feeling bad this past week was just a

quickly passing flu or something, not anything really going amiss with diet

etc.

> I am wondering

> what is problematic about mag when taken orally.

Magnesium is a gut irritant. Some forms, like magnesium taurate, are less

irritating than others -- I was giving my daughter magnesium taurate for a

long time. However, I recently read that magnesium in high concentrations

in the gut acts as an antibiotic, killing gut bacteria. Also that if you're

growing candida in a petri dish and add magnesium, the candida's growth

increases exponentially; unless you add calcium at the same time. But

calcium inhibits magnesium absorption if you take them orally together. And

both calcium and magnesium neutralize stomach acid -- not a good thing for

folks with gut troubles! So you've got a double bind -- take magnesium by

itself between meals and kill your gut bacteria; or take with calcium with

meals and neutralize your stomach acid and don't absorb much magnesium

anyway. Sigh.

> I had heard

> somewhere that the gut can become dependent on it...or that it

> causes the gut muscles to be too relaxed.

Hmm...I don't think I've heard that. Couldn't swear it isn't true, though.

I've stopped the magnesium taurate. Trying to give my daughter a small

dose of ground coral (for calcium, magnesium, and trace minerals) between

meals, once or twice a day -- but just starting this. She really has almost

no " between meals " because she's a nibbler. The guy at Radiant Life,

Cogswell, says he thinks absorption of magnesium from the coral

is very good in spite of the calcium. I hope so.

I've starting giving her baths with magnesium chloride bath flakes and/or

magnesium oil (I call these " seawater baths " ), both from

www.globallight.net. Epsom salts baths when time is short, " seawater baths "

when at least 30 minutes to soak. She likes to take " play baths " where I

get in the tub with her and we just soak and play, no hair washing etc. --

these are " seawater " . For myself, I'm also putting magn oil (which is just

magn in water, feels oily) on large areas of skin before bedtime. My body

seems to crave the stuff. I will probably start this with my daughter soon,

too, but diluting the magn oil with water first to avoiding the slight

stinging I get from full strength. So this is my magnesium approach for

now, hope it will be enough.

Now to your other message(s)...

Kayla