Guest guest Posted April 27, 2006 Report Share Posted April 27, 2006 FYI: Here's what DeFelice has to say about protease safety. http://enzymestuff.com/discussionsafety.htm scroll down on this one to question about whether enzymes can digest our bodies: http://enzymestuff.com/faq.htm Knowledge is power. gwen luca-3 SCD 2 m for digestive issues kikijabunce wrote: Dear Suzanne, IT looks like you have alot on your plate too. It is difficult to know what way to go. I know. I still am trying to hang on to Elaine's truth.....whe did not like protease because she feared that it would cause an already inflamed injured gut to become more inflamed and injured. You see, Protease breaks down protien....how does this enzyme know the difference between a peace of steak and a peice of intestine if it is raw inflamed and vulnerable? Our new nutritionis that came with DAN! evaluation, doubted this...but I nknow for a FACT that when I took protease out I felt MUCH BETTER! AND THIS WAS NOT IN MY HEAD EITHER! Any more I don't argue. We all have mortgages we have to pay! Elaine new alot...she didn't know everything...but she knew alot. Our DAN! accidently called her Dr. Gottshall...not realizing that she was not a doctor. This was a sign to me! I try to remember that many have healed the gut without all this fancy DAN! protocol. Enzymes, expensive tests and chelation therapies. I am not saying we will not use it....I don't know what road to go down yet. In just two month with only SCd...and laready a profound miracle. Plus we are broke and can't afford the DAN! and all his tests and tricks up his sleeve. I liked the man I did...I just don't know who to beleive anymore. No one is trying to desceive anybody...I am certain he has only good intentions. I just know that there are many testimonies claming that SCD alone heals the gut that caused the ASD in the first place. Some kids with SCd alone have lost their label as ASD. I don't think it was in their head either....it was all in healing their damaged guts! Many a DAN! doubt these tesimonies too. So who is right...this is the question I ask today? Thought I would share with you all, Antoinette (2 mo and healing from malabsorption...now with a DAN! confusing us) > > For information on the Specific Carbohydrate Diet, please read the book _Breaking the Vicious Cycle_ by Elaine Gottschall and read the following websites: http://www.breakingtheviciouscycle.info and http://www.pecanbread.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 27, 2006 Report Share Posted April 27, 2006 Hey guys, This is what I found at enzyme stuff.com ...... " Also, healthy tissue and cells have natural mechanisms protecting them from enzyme action. The body is full of checks and balances, including lots of enzyme inhibitors, which allow enzymes in your body to function properly without digesting you away. Enzymes are used for wound healing because they selectively degrade infection and dead tissue away while leaving healing tissue growing...... " Thank you for the link this is nice to know if you have a " healthy tissue and cells " that function normally and have natural mechanisms to protect the gut from their action. This is why Elaine worried: The problem is when the gut is damaged these checks and balances may not work as well. These enzyme inhibitors may not excrete right. Protease made me sick...I don't know why for sure. It felt like it was burning my gut. I had pretty advanced Celiac Disease though, when the intestines are destroyed by auto-immune disease. I still say be careful with the protease if you know how damaged the gut is. The reason we need enzymes anyway is because the pancreas is not functioning normally or the gut is so damaged it is not excreting them normally (even if pancreas if fine). I still think I will stay away from protease for the time being. When my gut heals (knowing that my pancreas functions are normal when tested), I trust that my intestines will do the job for me and I will not need enzymes anyways. Assuming that I do not have permanent damage. I still take the other enzymes though. Don't have a problem with them. Having much success with Lipase! Sincerely, Antoinette healing in spite of her self on strict SCdiet. 2 month Celiac Protease/enzyme safety FYI: Here's what DeFelice has to say about protease safety. http://enzymestuff.com/discussionsafety.htm<http://enzymestuff.com/discussionsaf\ ety.htm> scroll down on this one to question about whether enzymes can digest our bodies: http://enzymestuff.com/faq.htm<http://enzymestuff.com/faq.htm> Knowledge is power. gwen luca-3 SCD 2 m for digestive issues Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 28, 2006 Report Share Posted April 28, 2006 I'm pretty sure that DeFelice has found this to be true. THat Celiacs cannot tolerate protease but I might be thinking of the peptidase. I'm too burnt to check the book right now. I'm wondering about your pancreatic enzyme test. We had one done on Luca and it was " normal " . I've been wondering about that since starting enzymes. Could it be that the test didn't test everything. Could it be that enzymes are still needed? I'm glad the other enzymes are helping. i also laughed when I read the part about healthy tissue. I think you could be right...if your gut is really damaged then adding in protease would eat the body. Yuk! The other thing she states is that using enzymes is like putting antiseptic onto a wound. It will sting, yeah? So we go slowly that the sting won't hurt so badly. We add in little by little. I think that's what I need to do. Step back from the protease until we've done the zyme prime for a while. Cheers, gwen Bunce wrote: Hey guys, This is what I found at enzyme stuff.com ...... " Also, healthy tissue and cells have natural mechanisms protecting them from enzyme action. The body is full of checks and balances, including lots of enzyme inhibitors, which allow enzymes in your body to function properly without digesting you away. Enzymes are used for wound healing because they selectively degrade infection and dead tissue away while leaving healing tissue growing...... " Thank you for the link this is nice to know if you have a " healthy tissue and cells " that function normally and have natural mechanisms to protect the gut from their action. This is why Elaine worried: The problem is when the gut is damaged these checks and balances may not work as well. These enzyme inhibitors may not excrete right. Protease made me sick...I don't know why for sure. It felt like it was burning my gut. I had pretty advanced Celiac Disease though, when the intestines are destroyed by auto-immune disease. I still say be careful with the protease if you know how damaged the gut is. The reason we need enzymes anyway is because the pancreas is not functioning normally or the gut is so damaged it is not excreting them normally (even if pancreas if fine). I still think I will stay away from protease for the time being. When my gut heals (knowing that my pancreas functions are normal when tested), I trust that my intestines will do the job for me and I will not need enzymes anyways. Assuming that I do not have permanent damage. I still take the other enzymes though. Don't have a problem with them. Having much success with Lipase! Sincerely, Antoinette healing in spite of her self on strict SCdiet. 2 month Celiac Protease/enzyme safety FYI: Here's what DeFelice has to say about protease safety. http://enzymestuff.com/discussionsafety.htm<http://enzymestuff.com/discussionsaf\ ety.htm> scroll down on this one to question about whether enzymes can digest our bodies: http://enzymestuff.com/faq.htm<http://enzymestuff.com/faq.htm> Knowledge is power. gwen luca-3 SCD 2 m for digestive issues Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 28, 2006 Report Share Posted April 28, 2006 I have to say I had pretty advanced celiac sprue as well and I have a hard time with protease. I am trying to do lacto like said, but it still burns a bit, not anywhere near as bad as the pep, but still a bit and starts to build up on me. Do we know if this will ever get better, should I keep on, keeping on and put up with it, or go to a protease free one > >Reply-To: pecanbread >To: pecanbread >Subject: Re: Protease/enzyme safety >Date: Fri, 28 Apr 2006 09:34:14 -0700 (PDT) > >I'm pretty sure that DeFelice has found this to be true. THat Celiacs >cannot tolerate protease but I might be thinking of the peptidase. I'm too >burnt to check the book right now. > > I'm wondering about your pancreatic enzyme test. We had one done on >Luca and it was " normal " . I've been wondering about that since starting >enzymes. Could it be that the test didn't test everything. Could it be >that enzymes are still needed? > > I'm glad the other enzymes are helping. i also laughed when I read the >part about healthy tissue. I think you could be right...if your gut is >really damaged then adding in protease would eat the body. Yuk! > > The other thing she states is that using enzymes is like putting >antiseptic onto a wound. It will sting, yeah? So we go slowly that the >sting won't hurt so badly. We add in little by little. I think that's >what I need to do. Step back from the protease until we've done the zyme >prime for a while. > > Cheers, > gwen > > Bunce wrote: > Hey guys, > >This is what I found at enzyme stuff.com ...... " Also, healthy tissue and >cells have natural mechanisms protecting them from enzyme action. The body >is full of checks and balances, including lots of enzyme inhibitors, which >allow enzymes in your body to function properly without digesting you away. >Enzymes are used for wound healing because they selectively degrade >infection and dead tissue away while leaving healing tissue growing...... " > >Thank you for the link this is nice to know if you have a " healthy tissue >and cells " that function normally and have natural mechanisms to protect >the gut from their action. > >This is why Elaine worried: The problem is when the gut is damaged these >checks and balances may not work as well. These enzyme inhibitors may not >excrete right. Protease made me sick...I don't know why for sure. It felt >like it was burning my gut. I had pretty advanced Celiac Disease though, >when the intestines are destroyed by auto-immune disease. I still say be >careful with the protease if you know how damaged the gut is. The reason >we need enzymes anyway is because the pancreas is not functioning normally >or the gut is so damaged it is not excreting them normally (even if >pancreas if fine). I still think I will stay away from protease for the >time being. When my gut heals (knowing that my pancreas functions are >normal when tested), I trust that my intestines will do the job for me and >I will not need enzymes anyways. Assuming that I do not have permanent >damage. I still take the other enzymes though. Don't have a problem with >them. Having much success with > Lipase! > >Sincerely, Antoinette healing in spite of her self on strict SCdiet. 2 >month Celiac > Protease/enzyme safety > > > FYI: Here's what DeFelice has to say about protease safety. > > > >http://enzymestuff.com/discussionsafety.htm<http://enzymestuff.com/discussionsa\ fety.htm> > > scroll down on this one to question about whether enzymes can digest >our bodies: > http://enzymestuff.com/faq.htm<http://enzymestuff.com/faq.htm> > > Knowledge is power. > > gwen > luca-3 > SCD 2 m for digestive issues > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 28, 2006 Report Share Posted April 28, 2006 Hi guys, Tonight I decided to ditch the enzymes! Elaine didn't promote them. I was thinking about this CANDASE that digest yeast/candida (it is full of protease!!!)...how does it know not to digest the good guys.....it WOULD NOT! Think about it....protein is protein.....good guys, bad guys or steak! Plus Elaine feared that it would digest the lining of our damaged gut. YIKES! It is so hard to find one with just Lipase in them...and we truly to not need the Amyalase due to this diet being just monosaccharide....so why use them! If someone can find a Lipase only or a Lactase only (for the human milk problem I have with KiKi) Please let me know. Until then forget it! Once gut heals won't need them anyway...and the gut heals fast on the strictest SCd. I think I will do it BTVC way! Antoinette (2 mo SCD entire family/celiac and ASD because of it) a.. Visit your group " pecanbread<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/pecanbread> " on the web. b.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 1, 2006 Report Share Posted May 1, 2006 Antoinette, It's important that you go with what works for you. There are lots of people that enzymes help. Just take a look at their forum. The woman who wrote the book healed her sons with enzymes alone. If you do not feel comfortable with that protocol, then it is good that you feel free to stop using them. In Gut and Psychology, Dr. Natasha actually recommends HCl but not other enzymes. This might work for you all or not. It has nothing but HCl and Pepsin in it. It is true that the strictest SCD will heal the gut. That is what is designed to do. And if you are comfortable with that method then great. For some of us on here, I think we want to see faster results or perhaps we feel the extra support is necessary. As for myself, I'm feeling fairly restricted and worn out having to always prepare my own foods. i went on a weekend retreat this weekend and though my hostess took my diet into consideration, she is a vegetarian and loves her tofu. I took my own stuff but frankly, I wanted someone else to pamper me for awhile. I took my enzymes and felt pretty good. But my intuition is telling me that my gut just ain't that damaged. Interestingly enough, during a sitting meditation or a brisk walk, my gut starts feeling tons better. Hmmm, could it be that i'm not sitting up straight enough to allow proper digestion? I digress. Gwen Luca-3 SCD 2 months for digestive issues Bunce wrote: Hi guys, Tonight I decided to ditch the enzymes! Elaine didn't promote them. I was thinking about this CANDASE that digest yeast/candida (it is full of protease!!!)...how does it know not to digest the good guys.....it WOULD NOT! Think about it....protein is protein.....good guys, bad guys or steak! Plus Elaine feared that it would digest the lining of our damaged gut. YIKES! It is so hard to find one with just Lipase in them...and we truly to not need the Amyalase due to this diet being just monosaccharide....so why use them! If someone can find a Lipase only or a Lactase only (for the human milk problem I have with KiKi) Please let me know. Until then forget it! Once gut heals won't need them anyway...and the gut heals fast on the strictest SCd. I think I will do it BTVC way! Antoinette (2 mo SCD entire family/celiac and ASD because of it) a.. Visit your group " pecanbread<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/pecanbread> " on the web. b.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 1, 2006 Report Share Posted May 1, 2006 >>> I apologize. I'm a bit confused (partly because I missed the beginning of this thread, I think). Why would protease be harmful? No problem. There is always a warranted concern about safety with any therapy or product...or diet! I posted a longish reply earlier if you didn't get it or see it. Proteases are very helpful and very healing...and part of the healing SCD yogurt. The concern is over if you take protease (as supplements or in whole-foods such as yogurt) with an injured gut are you 'digesting yourself away'. The answer is no. For one thing, if that were to happen, it would have already happen due our own proteases produced by our pancreases hitting our own injured gut tissue. So it doesn't happen based on people's experience. Proteins and proteases are seriously super specific. It isn't one type of protease attacking every protein on the plant. There are thousands of different types and if order to get them to work at all, the chemical and physical structure has to be exactly right. Things that turn protease on or off (promotors or inhibitors are present in many places in your body...not just in the gut lining). Some are related to hormones, some other chemicals, some a cascade of other events has to happen. Because protease, as a general class, are robust healers, if you take many proteases initially, you can have serious discomfort. This is not your body digesting away...it is more like a 'healing crises'. Very much like what happens with you start an anti-fungal for yeast, or start SCD with bacteria die-off, or start SCD yogurt, or start a detoxification clensing program. The proteases are working on all these things...sort like cleaning out all the gunk. It is common for people to report interesting stools for a few days during this time as crud stuck inside you making you sick is getting flushed out. All of this is temporary but it can be a) uncomfortable or alarming if you aren't aware that it can happen. Starting low and slow with proteases is recommended with serious gut injury just as it is with SCD yogurt. The idea is to get the pro- active healing substance but at a low enough rate it is tolerated. If you start a protease product and get pain, such as Antoinette posted she did, this is an indication of too much protease too fast. Much like putting antiseptic on an open wound. Just like if you have a badly skinned knee...the antiseptic prevents infection and speeds healing...but it still stings when you put it on. The recommendation in this situation is to stop the proteaes for 4-5 days, then re-start at a much lower dose. This waiting period allows the exposed but sensitive tissue to heal over a bit. The raw tissue is sensitive possibly with exposed nerves until it can heal over a bit. One reason I suggest someone considering enzymes is to start with something like Lacto (by Enzymedica) is because it is very very very low in proteases, but high in other enzymes. This has worked marvelously for many over the past couple years. Do one bottle's worth, and then switch to a higher protease enzyme product next, OR add in a strong protease product separately. It's outlined in the Low- n-Slow Method. If you are taking a high protease product, or something with proteases in it such as Candidase, and it is working...great! This entire thread is mainly for those who get discomfort in the very beginning and are not able to start off that way. It may be where in the gut you have more damage or not. But overall, proteases along with other digestive enzymes are very well studied and one of the safest things you can do - over the long term too. However, if someone doesn't want to do that, that is fine as well. It is simply another option on the table that has multiple purposes. Food breakdown is one. Speeding up gut healing is another. Fighting pathogens is another. Autoimmune diseases is another. Depends on what you opt to do as part of your total health program. . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 2, 2006 Report Share Posted May 2, 2006 Thank you this is wonderful information, I really appreciate all of your insight and work to share this with us. > >Reply-To: pecanbread >To: pecanbread >Subject: Re: Protease/enzyme safety >Date: Tue, 02 May 2006 05:52:43 -0000 > > >>> I apologize. I'm a bit confused (partly because I missed the >beginning of this thread, I think). Why would protease be harmful? > >No problem. There is always a warranted concern about safety with any >therapy or product...or diet! > >I posted a longish reply earlier if you didn't get it or see it. >Proteases are very helpful and very healing...and part of the healing >SCD yogurt. The concern is over if you take protease (as supplements >or in whole-foods such as yogurt) with an injured gut are >you 'digesting yourself away'. The answer is no. For one thing, if >that were to happen, it would have already happen due our own >proteases produced by our pancreases hitting our own injured gut >tissue. So it doesn't happen based on people's experience. > >Proteins and proteases are seriously super specific. It isn't one >type of protease attacking every protein on the plant. There are >thousands of different types and if order to get them to work at all, >the chemical and physical structure has to be exactly right. Things >that turn protease on or off (promotors or inhibitors are present in >many places in your body...not just in the gut lining). Some are >related to hormones, some other chemicals, some a cascade of other >events has to happen. > >Because protease, as a general class, are robust healers, if you take >many proteases initially, you can have serious discomfort. This is >not your body digesting away...it is more like a 'healing crises'. >Very much like what happens with you start an anti-fungal for yeast, >or start SCD with bacteria die-off, or start SCD yogurt, or start a >detoxification clensing program. The proteases are working on all >these things...sort like cleaning out all the gunk. It is common for >people to report interesting stools for a few days during this time >as crud stuck inside you making you sick is getting flushed out. All >of this is temporary but it can be a) uncomfortable or alarming if >you aren't aware that it can happen. > >Starting low and slow with proteases is recommended with serious gut >injury just as it is with SCD yogurt. The idea is to get the pro- >active healing substance but at a low enough rate it is tolerated. > >If you start a protease product and get pain, such as Antoinette >posted she did, this is an indication of too much protease too fast. >Much like putting antiseptic on an open wound. Just like if you have >a badly skinned knee...the antiseptic prevents infection and speeds >healing...but it still stings when you put it on. > >The recommendation in this situation is to stop the proteaes for 4-5 >days, then re-start at a much lower dose. This waiting period allows >the exposed but sensitive tissue to heal over a bit. The raw tissue >is sensitive possibly with exposed nerves until it can heal over a >bit. > >One reason I suggest someone considering enzymes is to start with >something like Lacto (by Enzymedica) is because it is very very very >low in proteases, but high in other enzymes. This has worked >marvelously for many over the past couple years. Do one bottle's >worth, and then switch to a higher protease enzyme product next, OR >add in a strong protease product separately. It's outlined in the Low- >n-Slow Method. > >If you are taking a high protease product, or something with >proteases in it such as Candidase, and it is working...great! This >entire thread is mainly for those who get discomfort in the very >beginning and are not able to start off that way. It may be where in >the gut you have more damage or not. > >But overall, proteases along with other digestive enzymes are very >well studied and one of the safest things you can do - over the long >term too. However, if someone doesn't want to do that, that is fine >as well. It is simply another option on the table that has multiple >purposes. Food breakdown is one. Speeding up gut healing is another. >Fighting pathogens is another. Autoimmune diseases is another. >Depends on what you opt to do as part of your total health program. > >. > > > > > _________________________________________________________________ Don’t just search. Find. Check out the new MSN Search! http://search.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200636ave/direct/01/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 2, 2006 Report Share Posted May 2, 2006 Thank you this is wonderful information, I really appreciate all of your insight and work to share this with us. > >Reply-To: pecanbread >To: pecanbread >Subject: Re: Protease/enzyme safety >Date: Tue, 02 May 2006 05:52:43 -0000 > > >>> I apologize. I'm a bit confused (partly because I missed the >beginning of this thread, I think). Why would protease be harmful? > >No problem. There is always a warranted concern about safety with any >therapy or product...or diet! > >I posted a longish reply earlier if you didn't get it or see it. >Proteases are very helpful and very healing...and part of the healing >SCD yogurt. The concern is over if you take protease (as supplements >or in whole-foods such as yogurt) with an injured gut are >you 'digesting yourself away'. The answer is no. For one thing, if >that were to happen, it would have already happen due our own >proteases produced by our pancreases hitting our own injured gut >tissue. So it doesn't happen based on people's experience. > >Proteins and proteases are seriously super specific. It isn't one >type of protease attacking every protein on the plant. There are >thousands of different types and if order to get them to work at all, >the chemical and physical structure has to be exactly right. Things >that turn protease on or off (promotors or inhibitors are present in >many places in your body...not just in the gut lining). Some are >related to hormones, some other chemicals, some a cascade of other >events has to happen. > >Because protease, as a general class, are robust healers, if you take >many proteases initially, you can have serious discomfort. This is >not your body digesting away...it is more like a 'healing crises'. >Very much like what happens with you start an anti-fungal for yeast, >or start SCD with bacteria die-off, or start SCD yogurt, or start a >detoxification clensing program. The proteases are working on all >these things...sort like cleaning out all the gunk. It is common for >people to report interesting stools for a few days during this time >as crud stuck inside you making you sick is getting flushed out. All >of this is temporary but it can be a) uncomfortable or alarming if >you aren't aware that it can happen. > >Starting low and slow with proteases is recommended with serious gut >injury just as it is with SCD yogurt. The idea is to get the pro- >active healing substance but at a low enough rate it is tolerated. > >If you start a protease product and get pain, such as Antoinette >posted she did, this is an indication of too much protease too fast. >Much like putting antiseptic on an open wound. Just like if you have >a badly skinned knee...the antiseptic prevents infection and speeds >healing...but it still stings when you put it on. > >The recommendation in this situation is to stop the proteaes for 4-5 >days, then re-start at a much lower dose. This waiting period allows >the exposed but sensitive tissue to heal over a bit. The raw tissue >is sensitive possibly with exposed nerves until it can heal over a >bit. > >One reason I suggest someone considering enzymes is to start with >something like Lacto (by Enzymedica) is because it is very very very >low in proteases, but high in other enzymes. This has worked >marvelously for many over the past couple years. Do one bottle's >worth, and then switch to a higher protease enzyme product next, OR >add in a strong protease product separately. It's outlined in the Low- >n-Slow Method. > >If you are taking a high protease product, or something with >proteases in it such as Candidase, and it is working...great! This >entire thread is mainly for those who get discomfort in the very >beginning and are not able to start off that way. It may be where in >the gut you have more damage or not. > >But overall, proteases along with other digestive enzymes are very >well studied and one of the safest things you can do - over the long >term too. However, if someone doesn't want to do that, that is fine >as well. It is simply another option on the table that has multiple >purposes. Food breakdown is one. Speeding up gut healing is another. >Fighting pathogens is another. Autoimmune diseases is another. >Depends on what you opt to do as part of your total health program. > >. > > > > > _________________________________________________________________ Don’t just search. Find. Check out the new MSN Search! http://search.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200636ave/direct/01/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 8, 2006 Report Share Posted May 8, 2006 Hey , Thank!...I just read this... still getting caught up Agape, jornmatt wrote: >>> I apologize. I'm a bit confused (partly because I missed the beginning of this thread, I think). Why would protease be harmful? No problem. There is always a warranted concern about safety with any therapy or product...or diet! I posted a longish reply earlier if you didn't get it or see it. Proteases are very helpful and very healing...and part of the healing SCD yogurt. The concern is over if you take protease (as supplements or in whole-foods such as yogurt) with an injured gut are you 'digesting yourself away'. The answer is no. For one thing, if that were to happen, it would have already happen due our own proteases produced by our pancreases hitting our own injured gut tissue. So it doesn't happen based on people's experience. Proteins and proteases are seriously super specific. It isn't one type of protease attacking every protein on the plant. There are thousands of different types and if order to get them to work at all, the chemical and physical structure has to be exactly right. Things that turn protease on or off (promotors or inhibitors are present in many places in your body...not just in the gut lining). Some are related to hormones, some other chemicals, some a cascade of other events has to happen. Because protease, as a general class, are robust healers, if you take many proteases initially, you can have serious discomfort. This is not your body digesting away...it is more like a 'healing crises'. Very much like what happens with you start an anti-fungal for yeast, or start SCD with bacteria die-off, or start SCD yogurt, or start a detoxification clensing program. The proteases are working on all these things...sort like cleaning out all the gunk. It is common for people to report interesting stools for a few days during this time as crud stuck inside you making you sick is getting flushed out. All of this is temporary but it can be a) uncomfortable or alarming if you aren't aware that it can happen. Starting low and slow with proteases is recommended with serious gut injury just as it is with SCD yogurt. The idea is to get the pro- active healing substance but at a low enough rate it is tolerated. If you start a protease product and get pain, such as Antoinette posted she did, this is an indication of too much protease too fast. Much like putting antiseptic on an open wound. Just like if you have a badly skinned knee...the antiseptic prevents infection and speeds healing...but it still stings when you put it on. The recommendation in this situation is to stop the proteaes for 4-5 days, then re-start at a much lower dose. This waiting period allows the exposed but sensitive tissue to heal over a bit. The raw tissue is sensitive possibly with exposed nerves until it can heal over a bit. One reason I suggest someone considering enzymes is to start with something like Lacto (by Enzymedica) is because it is very very very low in proteases, but high in other enzymes. This has worked marvelously for many over the past couple years. Do one bottle's worth, and then switch to a higher protease enzyme product next, OR add in a strong protease product separately. It's outlined in the Low- n-Slow Method. If you are taking a high protease product, or something with proteases in it such as Candidase, and it is working...great! This entire thread is mainly for those who get discomfort in the very beginning and are not able to start off that way. It may be where in the gut you have more damage or not. But overall, proteases along with other digestive enzymes are very well studied and one of the safest things you can do - over the long term too. However, if someone doesn't want to do that, that is fine as well. It is simply another option on the table that has multiple purposes. Food breakdown is one. Speeding up gut healing is another. Fighting pathogens is another. Autoimmune diseases is another. Depends on what you opt to do as part of your total health program. . For information on the Specific Carbohydrate Diet, please read the book _Breaking the Vicious Cycle_ by Elaine Gottschall and read the following websites: http://www.breakingtheviciouscycle.info and http://www.pecanbread.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 9, 2006 Report Share Posted May 9, 2006 To all it may conern. Elaine adamently did not like protease if the pateint was KNOWN TO HAVE INFLAMATION, ULCERATIONS, OR ERROSION of the intestines. THAT IT DOES CAUSE PROBLEMS in celiac, errosive colitis; and since most if not all ASD kids have injured intestines that have not been diagnosed...it means us too. Elaine realized this after she wrote her book, when she learned that many wanted to use enzymes. The pain or slight burning one takes when they take this enzyme is proof ot this. If one waits for the intestines to heal, they no longer need it anyways. I HAVE TALKED PERSONALY TO THOSE WHO KNEW HER WELL, and THIS IS WHAT I LEARNED, when KiKI could not get over her bout of diarrhea and pain. When we took this horrible enzyme out it vanished. My pain vanished also. Contact me off serve if you want, she has said that I can break her annonymity. Also speak to Mimi off serve about this. Dr. Haas ONLY used enzymes in the milk that he created (this was pepsin) and this was put in the milk not the body. With Elaine's recipes for baby formula and yogurt we nolonger need this pepsin to make the SCD milk). HE TOO SAYS THAT ENZYMES ARE NOT NEEDED if a strict SCDiet is implicated that the intestines take over this job on their own when the vicious cycle is broken. In most kids it is in the FIRST MONTH...if no cheating has taken place. AT THE MOST HE SAYS IT IS THREE MONTHS, if no cheating has taken place. Dr. Haas also said that protein digestion is rarely the problem with these kids anyways. That only fat digestion is the problem, and this too disappears within the first month to three months. For most it is in the first month. If you are one of the three month guys, It is almost certain you would KNOW THAT YOU HAVE INJURED INTESTINES of the celiac variety or some other diagnosis. YOu or your child, would be very very sick. The enzyme amaylase is truly a waste of money on this monodisacharide diet, for we DO NOT ALLOW STARCH. THE ONLY REASON Dr. Haas says that we may need enzymes is if we have pancreatic dysfunction. This is RARE, and would be diagnosed by your doctor. OR if you are using enzymes to cheat. In this case the SCDiet WILL NOT WORK FOR YOU. Elaine and Dr. Haas said that it take " fanatical adherance " to have this cure. The reason that DAN! doctors and autistic books talk about the use of enzymes is MOSTLY DUE to NOT PROMOTING THE CORRECT DIET THAT HEALS THE GUTS NATURAL ABILITY TO TAKE OVER THIS FUNCTION ON ITS OWN. SCD HEALS THE GUT...like not other way. Out of 603 kids, Dr. Haas had about a 97% success rate! SO SAVE YOUR MONEY LIKE WE HAVE AN BUY SAFE SCD FOODS. IF you need to use enzymes it is only because of an INNONCENT ACCIDENTS! AND EVEN THOSE, can be counterdicted by going back to the intro for a few days! Sincerely, Antoinette (2+ month and healing fine without enzymes...trust what they told us guys!) > >>> I apologize. I'm a bit confused (partly because I missed the > beginning of this thread, I think). Why would protease be harmful? > > No problem. There is always a warranted concern about safety with any > therapy or product...or diet! > > I posted a longish reply earlier if you didn't get it or see it. > Proteases are very helpful and very healing...and part of the healing > SCD yogurt. The concern is over if you take protease (as supplements > or in whole-foods such as yogurt) with an injured gut are > you 'digesting yourself away'. The answer is no. For one thing, if > that were to happen, it would have already happen due our own > proteases produced by our pancreases hitting our own injured gut > tissue. So it doesn't happen based on people's experience. > > Proteins and proteases are seriously super specific. It isn't one > type of protease attacking every protein on the plant. There are > thousands of different types and if order to get them to work at all, > the chemical and physical structure has to be exactly right. Things > that turn protease on or off (promotors or inhibitors are present in > many places in your body...not just in the gut lining). Some are > related to hormones, some other chemicals, some a cascade of other > events has to happen. > > Because protease, as a general class, are robust healers, if you take > many proteases initially, you can have serious discomfort. This is > not your body digesting away...it is more like a 'healing crises'. > Very much like what happens with you start an anti-fungal for yeast, > or start SCD with bacteria die-off, or start SCD yogurt, or start a > detoxification clensing program. The proteases are working on all > these things...sort like cleaning out all the gunk. It is common for > people to report interesting stools for a few days during this time > as crud stuck inside you making you sick is getting flushed out. All > of this is temporary but it can be a) uncomfortable or alarming if > you aren't aware that it can happen. > > Starting low and slow with proteases is recommended with serious gut > injury just as it is with SCD yogurt. The idea is to get the pro- > active healing substance but at a low enough rate it is tolerated. > > If you start a protease product and get pain, such as Antoinette > posted she did, this is an indication of too much protease too fast. > Much like putting antiseptic on an open wound. Just like if you have > a badly skinned knee...the antiseptic prevents infection and speeds > healing...but it still stings when you put it on. > > The recommendation in this situation is to stop the proteaes for 4- 5 > days, then re-start at a much lower dose. This waiting period allows > the exposed but sensitive tissue to heal over a bit. The raw tissue > is sensitive possibly with exposed nerves until it can heal over a > bit. > > One reason I suggest someone considering enzymes is to start with > something like Lacto (by Enzymedica) is because it is very very very > low in proteases, but high in other enzymes. This has worked > marvelously for many over the past couple years. Do one bottle's > worth, and then switch to a higher protease enzyme product next, OR > add in a strong protease product separately. It's outlined in the Low- > n-Slow Method. > > If you are taking a high protease product, or something with > proteases in it such as Candidase, and it is working...great! This > entire thread is mainly for those who get discomfort in the very > beginning and are not able to start off that way. It may be where in > the gut you have more damage or not. > > But overall, proteases along with other digestive enzymes are very > well studied and one of the safest things you can do - over the long > term too. However, if someone doesn't want to do that, that is fine > as well. It is simply another option on the table that has multiple > purposes. Food breakdown is one. Speeding up gut healing is another. > Fighting pathogens is another. Autoimmune diseases is another. > Depends on what you opt to do as part of your total health program. > > . > > > > > > > > For information on the Specific Carbohydrate Diet, please read the book _Breaking the Vicious Cycle_ by Elaine Gottschall and read the following websites: > http://www.breakingtheviciouscycle.info > and > http://www.pecanbread.com > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 9, 2006 Report Share Posted May 9, 2006 Ooooooh Antoinette, I just got finished reading what Dr. NC said about digestive enzymes.... you're going to like it and learn some new things too. Agape, kikijabunce wrote: To all it may conern. Elaine adamently did not like protease if the pateint was KNOWN TO HAVE INFLAMATION, ULCERATIONS, OR ERROSION of the intestines. THAT IT DOES CAUSE PROBLEMS in celiac, errosive colitis; and since most if not all ASD kids have injured intestines that have not been diagnosed...it means us too. Elaine realized this after she wrote her book, when she learned that many wanted to use enzymes. The pain or slight burning one takes when they take this enzyme is proof ot this. If one waits for the intestines to heal, they no longer need it anyways. I HAVE TALKED PERSONALY TO THOSE WHO KNEW HER WELL, and THIS IS WHAT I LEARNED, when KiKI could not get over her bout of diarrhea and pain. When we took this horrible enzyme out it vanished. My pain vanished also. Contact me off serve if you want, she has said that I can break her annonymity. Also speak to Mimi off serve about this. Dr. Haas ONLY used enzymes in the milk that he created (this was pepsin) and this was put in the milk not the body. With Elaine's recipes for baby formula and yogurt we nolonger need this pepsin to make the SCD milk). HE TOO SAYS THAT ENZYMES ARE NOT NEEDED if a strict SCDiet is implicated that the intestines take over this job on their own when the vicious cycle is broken. In most kids it is in the FIRST MONTH...if no cheating has taken place. AT THE MOST HE SAYS IT IS THREE MONTHS, if no cheating has taken place. Dr. Haas also said that protein digestion is rarely the problem with these kids anyways. That only fat digestion is the problem, and this too disappears within the first month to three months. For most it is in the first month. If you are one of the three month guys, It is almost certain you would KNOW THAT YOU HAVE INJURED INTESTINES of the celiac variety or some other diagnosis. YOu or your child, would be very very sick. The enzyme amaylase is truly a waste of money on this monodisacharide diet, for we DO NOT ALLOW STARCH. THE ONLY REASON Dr. Haas says that we may need enzymes is if we have pancreatic dysfunction. This is RARE, and would be diagnosed by your doctor. OR if you are using enzymes to cheat. In this case the SCDiet WILL NOT WORK FOR YOU. Elaine and Dr. Haas said that it take " fanatical adherance " to have this cure. The reason that DAN! doctors and autistic books talk about the use of enzymes is MOSTLY DUE to NOT PROMOTING THE CORRECT DIET THAT HEALS THE GUTS NATURAL ABILITY TO TAKE OVER THIS FUNCTION ON ITS OWN. SCD HEALS THE GUT...like not other way. Out of 603 kids, Dr. Haas had about a 97% success rate! SO SAVE YOUR MONEY LIKE WE HAVE AN BUY SAFE SCD FOODS. IF you need to use enzymes it is only because of an INNONCENT ACCIDENTS! AND EVEN THOSE, can be counterdicted by going back to the intro for a few days! Sincerely, Antoinette (2+ month and healing fine without enzymes...trust what they told us guys!) > >>> I apologize. I'm a bit confused (partly because I missed the > beginning of this thread, I think). Why would protease be harmful? > > No problem. There is always a warranted concern about safety with any > therapy or product...or diet! > > I posted a longish reply earlier if you didn't get it or see it. > Proteases are very helpful and very healing...and part of the healing > SCD yogurt. The concern is over if you take protease (as supplements > or in whole-foods such as yogurt) with an injured gut are > you 'digesting yourself away'. The answer is no. For one thing, if > that were to happen, it would have already happen due our own > proteases produced by our pancreases hitting our own injured gut > tissue. So it doesn't happen based on people's experience. > > Proteins and proteases are seriously super specific. It isn't one > type of protease attacking every protein on the plant. There are > thousands of different types and if order to get them to work at all, > the chemical and physical structure has to be exactly right. Things > that turn protease on or off (promotors or inhibitors are present in > many places in your body...not just in the gut lining). Some are > related to hormones, some other chemicals, some a cascade of other > events has to happen. > > Because protease, as a general class, are robust healers, if you take > many proteases initially, you can have serious discomfort. This is > not your body digesting away...it is more like a 'healing crises'. > Very much like what happens with you start an anti-fungal for yeast, > or start SCD with bacteria die-off, or start SCD yogurt, or start a > detoxification clensing program. The proteases are working on all > these things...sort like cleaning out all the gunk. It is common for > people to report interesting stools for a few days during this time > as crud stuck inside you making you sick is getting flushed out. All > of this is temporary but it can be a) uncomfortable or alarming if > you aren't aware that it can happen. > > Starting low and slow with proteases is recommended with serious gut > injury just as it is with SCD yogurt. The idea is to get the pro- > active healing substance but at a low enough rate it is tolerated. > > If you start a protease product and get pain, such as Antoinette > posted she did, this is an indication of too much protease too fast. > Much like putting antiseptic on an open wound. Just like if you have > a badly skinned knee...the antiseptic prevents infection and speeds > healing...but it still stings when you put it on. > > The recommendation in this situation is to stop the proteaes for 4- 5 > days, then re-start at a much lower dose. This waiting period allows > the exposed but sensitive tissue to heal over a bit. The raw tissue > is sensitive possibly with exposed nerves until it can heal over a > bit. > > One reason I suggest someone considering enzymes is to start with > something like Lacto (by Enzymedica) is because it is very very very > low in proteases, but high in other enzymes. This has worked > marvelously for many over the past couple years. Do one bottle's > worth, and then switch to a higher protease enzyme product next, OR > add in a strong protease product separately. It's outlined in the Low- > n-Slow Method. > > If you are taking a high protease product, or something with > proteases in it such as Candidase, and it is working...great! This > entire thread is mainly for those who get discomfort in the very > beginning and are not able to start off that way. It may be where in > the gut you have more damage or not. > > But overall, proteases along with other digestive enzymes are very > well studied and one of the safest things you can do - over the long > term too. However, if someone doesn't want to do that, that is fine > as well. It is simply another option on the table that has multiple > purposes. Food breakdown is one. Speeding up gut healing is another. > Fighting pathogens is another. Autoimmune diseases is another. > Depends on what you opt to do as part of your total health program. > > . > > > > > > > > For information on the Specific Carbohydrate Diet, please read the book _Breaking the Vicious Cycle_ by Elaine Gottschall and read the following websites: > http://www.breakingtheviciouscycle.info > and > http://www.pecanbread.com > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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