Re:Probiotics/ Hyperactivity--- Jody/Summer/All

[Guest guest]

Why is this?... Why would probiotics cause hyperactivity... maybe it's die-off.

Agape,

Cindy wrote:

Hi Molly I can relate. My son, who never has a lack of energy is off

the charts with any type of probiotics. I gave up trying to introduce

the yogurts [nut based] and have switched to the non-dairly probiotic

SCdophillus...i found that even giving him the tiniest amount possible

out of the capsule, it made him hyper, so i am trying to give it after

supper, as it seems to take an few hours or so to 'hit' him. So far it

hasn't affected his sleep, and goodness knows he couldn't possibly get

up any earlier anyway! Aside from the probiotics and the obvious

connection to hyperness, the miniscule amount of probiotic and its

bowel affect seems to make him feel a bit on edge, or not quite

himself....die off, i am sure. So i am trying to persevere with the

smallest amount that he can tolerate, with minimal side effects.

I know how frustrating it is to have a kid whose body/mind won't be

still enough to even do the things they want to do never mind the

things we want them to!

Good luck! and by the way, i've learned to always trust those

instincts too.

Cindy, IBS, SCD 11 months

Brady, 5, ASD, CP, SCD 11 months

For information on the Specific Carbohydrate Diet, please read the book

_Breaking the Vicious Cycle_ by Elaine Gottschall and read the following

websites:

http://www.breakingtheviciouscycle.info

and

http://www.pecanbread.com

[Guest guest]

Some people, especially spectrum people, have immune reactions to certain

strains of probiotics, molds and yeasts. Often, there is an underlying virus,

bacterial or fungal infection that the immune system is trying to work on

ineffectively, because it is depressed. It starts over-reacting to everything,

its weak and confused.

That's what I don't understand about the legal and illegal cheeses in BTVC.

Now that I am learning and experimenting on making my own cheeses, butters and

so on, and am reading books on the process, from company to company, from

individual to individual, different cultures, molds and techniques are used from

batch to batch.

Also, for making any yogurt or fermented dairy product, it is a must to

sterilize all equipment if yeast trips up your immune system.

Yeast is in the air. The minute your SCD pasturized milk starts cooling, it is

innoculated with yeasts from the air! For some, with really weak immune systems,

it is like eating left over food...the yeasts that have grown are too much. So

the yogurt or dripped cheese becomes innoculated with yeast strains, which

proceed to grow in the perfect environment we have set up for the probiotic

starter to grow in.

Some hard and soft cheeses are further innoculated for flavor with penicillum

bacterial cultures to ripen the flavor on the outside of the cheese. For some

with antibiotic sensitivity, this can cause a reaction...and the person would

think it was the casein, lactose or the cheese itself.

The cultures and techniques used from one cheesemaker to another are varied,

and there is no way to account for that in a legal/illegal list. Some cheese on

the legal list will be made in similar fashion to cheeses on the illegal list,

even if they are aged for 60 days.

For most people, this will not be an issue...we can get away just cleaning our

utensils and not " sterilizing " our yogurt making supplies. Most yogurt makers do

sterilize their supplies for these reasons.

The best sourdough bread is made in certain boulangerie in France. Why can't

these sourdough recipes be recreated? Because some of the sourdough breads are

using the same airborne innoculations that have existed in the air in these

particular boulangerie shops for hundreds of years. Part of the culture used for

making breads (I used to be a bread maker myself) is not the yeast that is added

into the dough, it is airborne innoculation. The more bread you make, the more

certain types of yeast will grow in your air. The more yogurt you make, the more

certain yeasts and bacteria may gravitate to your cheese dripping bag and

" flavor " the cheese.

This is all part of the art, not the science behind bread and cheesemaking.

There is no way that all the particular nuiances to these arts can be so

categorized.

Its why the best cremerie places are in france, and the boulangerie as well.

You walk into a shop that has been there for centuries, where the art and

cultures have been fine tuned and felt by the people making it.

A far cry from the way we view these types of food in North America.

This discussion could go on for eons, die-off yes, immune sensitivity to

certain strains yes, and other factors, it just depends on that one person's

health situation.

Rambling Pecanbread Summer

davis wrote:

Why is this?... Why would probiotics cause hyperactivity... maybe it's

die-off.

Agape,

Cindy wrote:

Hi Molly I can relate. My son, who never has a lack of energy is off

the charts with any type of probiotics. I gave up trying to introduce

the yogurts [nut based] and have switched to the non-dairly probiotic

SCdophillus...i found that even giving him the tiniest amount possible

out of the capsule, it made him hyper, so i am trying to give it after

supper, as it seems to take an few hours or so to 'hit' him. So far it

hasn't affected his sleep, and goodness knows he couldn't possibly get

up any earlier anyway! Aside from the probiotics and the obvious

connection to hyperness, the miniscule amount of probiotic and its

bowel affect seems to make him feel a bit on edge, or not quite

himself....die off, i am sure. So i am trying to persevere with the

smallest amount that he can tolerate, with minimal side effects.

I know how frustrating it is to have a kid whose body/mind won't be

still enough to even do the things they want to do never mind the

things we want them to!

Good luck! and by the way, i've learned to always trust those

instincts too.

Cindy, IBS, SCD 11 months

Brady, 5, ASD, CP, SCD 11 months

__________________________________________________

[Guest guest]

We had problems with probiotics for a while....Mikey had very low beneficial

bacteria in his stool analysis. Small amts of probiotics would cause severe

aggression and hyperactivity. We started slow...gave only one strain in small

amts, gradually worked up the dose and then added another strain, and so on. If

he started having the behaviors I would back off a bit and go slower. Hope this

helps!!

Deanna

davis wrote:

Why is this?... Why would probiotics cause hyperactivity... maybe it's

die-off.

Agape,

Cindy wrote:

Hi Molly I can relate. My son, who never has a lack of energy is off

the charts with any type of probiotics. I gave up trying to introduce

the yogurts [nut based] and have switched to the non-dairly probiotic

SCdophillus...i found that even giving him the tiniest amount possible

out of the capsule, it made him hyper, so i am trying to give it after

supper, as it seems to take an few hours or so to 'hit' him. So far it

hasn't affected his sleep, and goodness knows he couldn't possibly get

up any earlier anyway! Aside from the probiotics and the obvious

connection to hyperness, the miniscule amount of probiotic and its

bowel affect seems to make him feel a bit on edge, or not quite

himself....die off, i am sure. So i am trying to persevere with the

smallest amount that he can tolerate, with minimal side effects.

I know how frustrating it is to have a kid whose body/mind won't be

still enough to even do the things they want to do never mind the

things we want them to!

Good luck! and by the way, i've learned to always trust those

instincts too.

Cindy, IBS, SCD 11 months

Brady, 5, ASD, CP, SCD 11 months

For information on the Specific Carbohydrate Diet, please read the book

_Breaking the Vicious Cycle_ by Elaine Gottschall and read the following

websites:

http://www.breakingtheviciouscycle.info

and

http://www.pecanbread.com

[Guest guest]

Yes, I got to that part in the GAPS Book... it's a war!

Agape,

Deanna wrote:

We had problems with probiotics for a while....Mikey had very low beneficial

bacteria in his stool analysis. Small amts of probiotics would cause severe

aggression and hyperactivity. We started slow...gave only one strain in small

amts, gradually worked up the dose and then added another strain, and so on. If

he started having the behaviors I would back off a bit and go slower. Hope this

helps!!

Deanna

davis wrote:

Why is this?... Why would probiotics cause hyperactivity... maybe it's

die-off.

Agape,

Cindy wrote:

Hi Molly I can relate. My son, who never has a lack of energy is off

the charts with any type of probiotics. I gave up trying to introduce

the yogurts [nut based] and have switched to the non-dairly probiotic

SCdophillus...i found that even giving him the tiniest amount possible

out of the capsule, it made him hyper, so i am trying to give it after

supper, as it seems to take an few hours or so to 'hit' him. So far it

hasn't affected his sleep, and goodness knows he couldn't possibly get

up any earlier anyway! Aside from the probiotics and the obvious

connection to hyperness, the miniscule amount of probiotic and its

bowel affect seems to make him feel a bit on edge, or not quite

himself....die off, i am sure. So i am trying to persevere with the

smallest amount that he can tolerate, with minimal side effects.

I know how frustrating it is to have a kid whose body/mind won't be

still enough to even do the things they want to do never mind the

things we want them to!

Good luck! and by the way, i've learned to always trust those

instincts too.

Cindy, IBS, SCD 11 months

Brady, 5, ASD, CP, SCD 11 months

For information on the Specific Carbohydrate Diet, please read the book

_Breaking the Vicious Cycle_ by Elaine Gottschall and read the following

websites:

http://www.breakingtheviciouscycle.info

and

http://www.pecanbread.com

[Guest guest]

I have to get this book...everyone is referring to it!!

Deanna

davis wrote:

Yes, I got to that part in the GAPS Book... it's a war!

Agape,

Deanna wrote:

We had problems with probiotics for a while....Mikey had very low beneficial

bacteria in his stool analysis. Small amts of probiotics would cause severe

aggression and hyperactivity. We started slow...gave only one strain in small

amts, gradually worked up the dose and then added another strain, and so on. If

he started having the behaviors I would back off a bit and go slower. Hope this

helps!!

Deanna

davis wrote:

Why is this?... Why would probiotics cause hyperactivity... maybe it's

die-off.

Agape,

Cindy wrote:

Hi Molly I can relate. My son, who never has a lack of energy is off

the charts with any type of probiotics. I gave up trying to introduce

the yogurts [nut based] and have switched to the non-dairly probiotic

SCdophillus...i found that even giving him the tiniest amount possible

out of the capsule, it made him hyper, so i am trying to give it after

supper, as it seems to take an few hours or so to 'hit' him. So far it

hasn't affected his sleep, and goodness knows he couldn't possibly get

up any earlier anyway! Aside from the probiotics and the obvious

connection to hyperness, the miniscule amount of probiotic and its

bowel affect seems to make him feel a bit on edge, or not quite

himself....die off, i am sure. So i am trying to persevere with the

smallest amount that he can tolerate, with minimal side effects.

I know how frustrating it is to have a kid whose body/mind won't be

still enough to even do the things they want to do never mind the

things we want them to!

Good luck! and by the way, i've learned to always trust those

instincts too.

Cindy, IBS, SCD 11 months

Brady, 5, ASD, CP, SCD 11 months

For information on the Specific Carbohydrate Diet, please read the book

_Breaking the Vicious Cycle_ by Elaine Gottschall and read the following

websites:

http://www.breakingtheviciouscycle.info

and

http://www.pecanbread.com

[Guest guest]

I am reading GAPS too. Wonderful book by the way. What I have

learned from much research. Dr. Haas book, Elaine's, GAPS and

countless others is that BIFIDUS strains although in normal numbers

are benifitual...if the vicious cycle starts this should not be one

of the probiotics given....cuased pathology and problems. Check

BTVC book to learn more. In high numbers the good guys become " bad

guys " and it is a balancing act to get them back into check.

Antifungals and enzymes from what I now understand can even cause

this balancing act to take longer to happen. Implimenting with diet

is the best option for some.

Antoinette

> Hi Molly I can relate. My son, who never has a lack of energy

is off

> the charts with any type of probiotics. I gave up trying to

introduce

> the yogurts [nut based] and have switched to the non-dairly

probiotic

> SCdophillus...i found that even giving him the tiniest amount

possible

> out of the capsule, it made him hyper, so i am trying to give it

after

> supper, as it seems to take an few hours or so to 'hit' him. So

far it

> hasn't affected his sleep, and goodness knows he couldn't possibly

get

> up any earlier anyway! Aside from the probiotics and the obvious

> connection to hyperness, the miniscule amount of probiotic and its

> bowel affect seems to make him feel a bit on edge, or not quite

> himself....die off, i am sure. So i am trying to persevere with

the

> smallest amount that he can tolerate, with minimal side effects.

> I know how frustrating it is to have a kid whose body/mind won't

be

> still enough to even do the things they want to do never mind the

> things we want them to!

> Good luck! and by the way, i've learned to always trust those

> instincts too.

>

> Cindy, IBS, SCD 11 months

> Brady, 5, ASD, CP, SCD 11 months

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

> For information on the Specific Carbohydrate Diet, please read the

book _Breaking the Vicious Cycle_ by Elaine Gottschall and read the

following websites:

> http://www.breakingtheviciouscycle.info

> and

> http://www.pecanbread.com

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

I can't answer your question about which test for bifidus, but I can tell you my

personal opinion regarding Bifidus. For one, it is part of the normal intestinal

flora. It is passed onto young ones in breast milk. For people like myself who

could not breastfeed, I hardly think overgrowing Bifidus is a problem.

The problem is gut damage that leads to overgrowing Bifidus, if not the

Bifidus, over growing yeast, clostridia, and so and and so forth. I do not

believe there is anything wrong with Bifidus itself. For those few people this

might be a problem for, not consuming it would be an excellent idea.

I think SCD, starting with intro, where these things are excluded for a bit is

a first rate idea, one borrowed from many ancient healing systems. Elimination,

then reintroduction. There are trillions of organisms in our intestines. There

are those who do have overgrowth, whether by yeast, bifidus, something else, and

upon a slow and careful reintroduction, this may be felt out.

Summer

davis wrote:

Some may have to disagree with Elaine regarding the non use of bifidus... is

there a way to tell if our kids have enough bifidus?... will a CDSA tell?... it

seems like my son may need some... I'm going to have to 'retool'/restart this

summer.

Agape,

kikijabunce wrote:

I am reading GAPS too. Wonderful book by the way. What I have

learned from much research. Dr. Haas book, Elaine's, GAPS and

countless others is that BIFIDUS strains although in normal numbers

are benifitual...if the vicious cycle starts this should not be one

of the probiotics given....cuased pathology and problems. Check

BTVC book to learn more. In high numbers the good guys become " bad

guys " and it is a balancing act to get them back into check.

Antifungals and enzymes from what I now understand can even cause

this balancing act to take longer to happen. Implimenting with diet

is the best option for some.

Antoinette

> Hi Molly I can relate. My son, who never has a lack of energy

is off

> the charts with any type of probiotics. I gave up trying to

introduce

> the yogurts [nut based] and have switched to the non-dairly

probiotic

> SCdophillus...i found that even giving him the tiniest amount

possible

> out of the capsule, it made him hyper, so i am trying to give it

after

> supper, as it seems to take an few hours or so to 'hit' him. So

far it

> hasn't affected his sleep, and goodness knows he couldn't possibly

get

> up any earlier anyway! Aside from the probiotics and the obvious

> connection to hyperness, the miniscule amount of probiotic and its

> bowel affect seems to make him feel a bit on edge, or not quite

> himself....die off, i am sure. So i am trying to persevere with

the

> smallest amount that he can tolerate, with minimal side effects.

> I know how frustrating it is to have a kid whose body/mind won't

be

> still enough to even do the things they want to do never mind the

> things we want them to!

> Good luck! and by the way, i've learned to always trust those

> instincts too.

>

> Cindy, IBS, SCD 11 months

> Brady, 5, ASD, CP, SCD 11 months

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

> For information on the Specific Carbohydrate Diet, please read the

book _Breaking the Vicious Cycle_ by Elaine Gottschall and read the

following websites:

> http://www.breakingtheviciouscycle.info

> and

> http://www.pecanbread.com

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Have had really good luck with L. casei as well, it seems to agree with me

very well and I see the most benefit when I include it in my probiotic

supplementation. I think it is a very individual thing and depends on the

needs of each persons individual gut flora and immune needs. If I just have

acidophlus I get tremendously sick, I believe for me personally having that

one strain creates an imbalance in my flora

>

>Reply-To: pecanbread

>To: pecanbread

>Subject: Re: Re:Probiotics/ Hyperactivity--- Jody/Summer/All

>Date: Mon, 15 May 2006 03:35:17 -0700 (PDT)

>

>This sounds wise to me. The two most numerous beneficial gut flora are

>acidolphilus and bifidus...

> antbiotics, stress, steroids and other factors have kept his good gut

>flora from residence... My son has been on antibiotics, rotating 4 kinds to

>kill off Lyme's for the past year, and on prednisolone for the past 9

>months...He just came off all that this month...

> My gut (:-)) is telling me he needs a full spectrum of gut flora.

> Agape,

>

>Gertrude Snicklegrove wrote:

> I can't answer your question about which test for bifidus, but I can

>tell you my personal opinion regarding Bifidus. For one, it is part of the

>normal intestinal flora. It is passed onto young ones in breast milk. For

>people like myself who could not breastfeed, I hardly think overgrowing

>Bifidus is a problem.

>

> The problem is gut damage that leads to overgrowing Bifidus, if not the

>Bifidus, over growing yeast, clostridia, and so and and so forth. I do not

>believe there is anything wrong with Bifidus itself. For those few people

>this might be a problem for, not consuming it would be an excellent idea.

>

> I think SCD, starting with intro, where these things are excluded for a

>bit is a first rate idea, one borrowed from many ancient healing systems.

>Elimination, then reintroduction. There are trillions of organisms in our

>intestines. There are those who do have overgrowth, whether by yeast,

>bifidus, something else, and upon a slow and careful reintroduction, this

>may be felt out.

>

>

> Summer

>

>

> davis wrote:

> Some may have to disagree with Elaine regarding the non use of

>bifidus... is there a way to tell if our kids have enough bifidus?... will

>a CDSA tell?... it seems like my son may need some... I'm going to have to

>'retool'/restart this summer.

> Agape,

>

>

> kikijabunce wrote:

> I am reading GAPS too. Wonderful book by the way. What I have

>learned from much research. Dr. Haas book, Elaine's, GAPS and

>countless others is that BIFIDUS strains although in normal numbers

>are benifitual...if the vicious cycle starts this should not be one

>of the probiotics given....cuased pathology and problems. Check

>BTVC book to learn more. In high numbers the good guys become " bad

>guys " and it is a balancing act to get them back into check.

>Antifungals and enzymes from what I now understand can even cause

>this balancing act to take longer to happen. Implimenting with diet

>is the best option for some.

>

>Antoinette

>

>

> > Hi Molly I can relate. My son, who never has a lack of energy

>is off

> > the charts with any type of probiotics. I gave up trying to

>introduce

> > the yogurts [nut based] and have switched to the non-dairly

>probiotic

> > SCdophillus...i found that even giving him the tiniest amount

>possible

> > out of the capsule, it made him hyper, so i am trying to give it

>after

> > supper, as it seems to take an few hours or so to 'hit' him. So

>far it

> > hasn't affected his sleep, and goodness knows he couldn't possibly

>get

> > up any earlier anyway! Aside from the probiotics and the obvious

> > connection to hyperness, the miniscule amount of probiotic and its

> > bowel affect seems to make him feel a bit on edge, or not quite

> > himself....die off, i am sure. So i am trying to persevere with

>the

> > smallest amount that he can tolerate, with minimal side effects.

> > I know how frustrating it is to have a kid whose body/mind won't

>be

> > still enough to even do the things they want to do never mind the

> > things we want them to!

> > Good luck! and by the way, i've learned to always trust those

> > instincts too.

> >

> > Cindy, IBS, SCD 11 months

> > Brady, 5, ASD, CP, SCD 11 months

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > For information on the Specific Carbohydrate Diet, please read the

>book _Breaking the Vicious Cycle_ by Elaine Gottschall and read the

>following websites:

> > http://www.breakingtheviciouscycle.info

> > and

> > http://www.pecanbread.com

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

If I just have

> acidophlus I get tremendously sick, I believe for me personally

having that

> one strain creates an imbalance in my flora

acidophilus is very effective against yeast so in actual fact that

being sick may be yeast die off

[Guest guest]

CDSA is how we knew that our son had zip, zero, zilch---no growth of

bifidus. Yes, it is tested in the CDSA and the CDSA 2.0 under the

beneficial bacteria section.

Angie

>

> Some may have to disagree with Elaine regarding the non use of

bifidus... is there a way to tell if our kids have enough bifidus?...

will a CDSA tell?... it seems like my son may need some... I'm going to

have to 'retool'/restart this summer.

> Agape,

>

>

[Guest guest]

Die off reaction is getting blamed for being " casien " in the yogurt

(which it can't be ina 24 hour batch) and accidolphilus is getting

blamed for making those sick too. Both the probiotic rich yogurt

and the accidophilus are making those think that they are getting

sick because of the food....guys it's die off reaction...and as much

as it sucks...it is needed and should not be avoided. The same with

the PHENOLS in the food...phenols are mother natures way to

detox.....when eating the SCD way....the phenols cause this to

happen. It isn't the almond flours fault....it is the DETOX affect

that the phenols in the fruit and nuts cause.

Die off is not fun....acidophilus is the way that we are beating

this YEAST war with KIKI and myself. No more outward signs of

yeast....as long as we take it....I have trippled the dose...and am

doing well.....die off was not fun though. Believe me. YUCK.

Let's try to do what works...or we will not have good results.

Oh, and ALL the tests for bifidus overgrowth (of this good guy that

goes bad in those with a damaged gut...) can only be tested by stool

tests that only check for the lower part of the gut (this is what

GAPS says)...NOT GOOD....because Dr. Haas said that the problem with

bifidus overgrowth is much much higher. Please becareful and not

use the BIFIDUS if you have a problem with overgrowth of this " good

guy " gone bad.....this diet will not deplete it completely...just

puts it back into check...without even worrying about this one.

THAT IS if we don't have to take antibiotics and antifungals that

screw all this balancing act up. I truly can now see how mother

nature alone can fix this if we just let her. GAPS explains this

beautifuly....some of these quick fixes are slowing progress down.

Thank you Summer for agreeing with Dr Haas and Elaine....for most of

us here (if we have ASD kids/which automaticaly makes them canidate

for injured guts) to leave it out (the Bifidus).....or we may be

reapeating history again (doing things that do not work)....Dr. Haas

discovered that it is not a good idea to take this...Elaine again

discovered the same thing. Bifidus amoung other things is truly a

part of the vicious cycle. In correct numbers BIFIDUS is HIGHLY

NEEDED.

You see this vicious cycle usualy starts in infancy....with the

introduction of baby formula....rice cerals that do not diegest and

just ferment more BIFIDUS amoung other things like yeasts.... or gut

flora from the mother at birth (that more than likely is out of wack

too according to GAPS)....so then the baby gets Out of wack gut

flora...eventhough at one time BIFIDUS was good in the babies

gut...this becomes a Huge PROBLEM IN THE VICIOUS CYCLE...causing

colic, colitis, IBS...GERD....celiac...AUTISM.

Review BTVC....WE try to trust what has worked for others.......and

it is working. I know that others are individual....but are we

truly that unique if we all are here on the most part with ASD

problems and damaged guts???? WE probably have so much BIFIDUS that

we wouldn't have to supplement ever again.

2.5 months ONLY...and healing when no ohter way worked...and God

knows we tried....wasted much time in past...now we are getting

better...first year is the roughest thanks mostly to DIE OFF

Reactions....and trying to trust what has worked for others.

Antoinette

(

>

> If I just have

> > acidophlus I get tremendously sick, I believe for me personally

> having that

> > one strain creates an imbalance in my flora

>

> acidophilus is very effective against yeast so in actual fact that

> being sick may be yeast die off

>

[Guest guest]

According to Dr. Haas and now Dr. Natasha from GAPS....the

tests that check for gut flora are not accurate.

At this time there is no modern day test that can test for Bifidus

overgrowth in the higher parts of the intestine. Most tests just

test for poop that is found in the lower gut.

Bifidus overgrowth problems occur much higher in the illium. So

truly, there is no way one would know by looking at the POOP.

One thing is for certain...the gut is never 100% free of bifidus

unless the child has undergone gut sterilization...which I highly

doubt has happened.

This means good news...for us....SCDiet puts all the gut bugs back

into check so that they can do their job again correctly. If too

low they go up....if too high they go down....but it takes 1 to 2

years for some of us according to Dr. Haas, Elaine and now Dr.

Natasha from GAPS.

It is my opinion after having the success that we are now having

(when no doctor helped before) that we will take heed to this

bifidus warning and not include it.

It more than likely will compromise the way the SCDIET works if we

listen to more " good intentioned " doctors. We can't take that risk

any more. We choose this BTVC route after experimenting for 1.5

years and getting no where...seeing our celiac daughter slip into

autism.....so now we trust in the process that has worked for 50

years on thousands of people...and in just 2.5 months see her emerge

from her cave...I know that we all are unque...but turly if we are

on this list serve with ASD kids...we all more than likely have

damaged guts....and this could work for all of us. When ever we

throw in anti-fungals (that can cause the overgrowth of more

imbalance)...and enzymes that kill yeasts...and much more...and

such...it truly could be taking longer to break the vicious cycle by

Nautral treatment through just SCD food. Only my opinon...and we

are having success.

Antoinette

> >

> > Some may have to disagree with Elaine regarding the non use of

> bifidus... is there a way to tell if our kids have enough

bifidus?...

> will a CDSA tell?... it seems like my son may need some... I'm

going to

> have to 'retool'/restart this summer.

> > Agape,

> >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Hey !

A CDSA from Doctor's Data will tell you Toren's level of bifidus

bacteria. I am completely into this thread because 's CDSA

showed that he had no bifidus at all, and I have never known what to

do about it because of Elaine's position on this.

Jeni Lynn (gastrointestinal problems)

mom to , 4 yr. old today (risk for ADD, gastrointestinal

problems, heavy metal toxicity)

SCD 5 months