Re: your thoughts... DEBBIE

[Guest guest]

> ,

>

> I enjoy reading your messages. You certainly seem well

> informed. I'm scheduled for surgery 27 July. I saw what

> you've written to/about and that attorney...

> Lundquist (sp?). Since you had your surgery

> after 's death, I have to ask...did you

> have any second thoughts?

Yes. Lots. It is very sobering to realize that someone who

shared her life and who was a member of the MGB family was

suddenly gone, a mother of four, sister to Fanney, not a

statistic, but a very real human being, a young woman,

with no exceptional risks, less at risk even than I was.

Here, then gone. Everyone on the list was greatly affected

by 's death.

Some good came of it, though, because all of us went into

surgery afterwards with our eyes wide open.

Some of us made last-words videos or letters for our

children and loved ones, in case we didn't make it,

etting them know that we loved them and that if we didn't

make it, be glad that we passed doing something we wanted

to do for ourselves. Some of us made " living wills " or

directives about what should be done if we should end up

comatose. You can't think about these things without having

the chilling reality of the possibility settle around your

shoulders like a damp fog.

I think all of us have cried at some point, for , for

ourselves, for what we could be and want to be, and fear

that we'll let our families down, whether it is by being

so fat we can't be of much use to them, or whether we die

from surgery to cure us, or from fear that we can or

can't ever go through with it, be who we want to be.

There's also a certain fear of succeeding that comes in there

somewhere, too. What will it be like to suddenly be " normal, "

and have no reason to hide at home, to be expected to

socialize, to get on the rides, to sit in the booths, to

perch in a lawn chair, to wear plaid and horizontal stripes,

to swing on a swing, to run and not be winded or embarrased

or look like a rhinocerous in heat?

All surgery has risks to it, particularly the risks of death from

anaesthesia, unexpected allergic reactions, sepsis from

contamination in the hospital, and this particular surgery

has risks of sepsis or peritonitis from a wound during surgery

or a leak after surgery.

Rationally, I knew my risk of death was great at my weight,

if not immediately, then too soon, before I would see my

children have children, before I could get out and enjoy being

on my own again. But that hadn't been enough to make me lose

the weight and keep it off.

The man I loved, the person I wanted to share life with, the

person I wanted to be proud to have me by his side, died

suddenly of a stroke in March (before 's death),

at age 52. He wasn't overweight and he didn't smoke. That

was devestating, but it brought home something for me, that

life is precious and it may be short no matter what we do.

That just may be our cards.

But I wanted to *live* the life I have left and enjoy it

and I could not do that fat.

I looked *exactly* the same size and shape as my paternal

grandmother. I knew that surgery was my only hope to overcome

these bad genetic cards and my own bad habits.

I also knew that Dr. Rutledge's procedure has the *lowest* risks

of complications of all the procedures, plus it is the only

surgery that is completely and easily reversible in a one-hour

laparoscopic procedure.

So if I were going to have the surgery, and I was bound and

determined, the only sensible choice was the MGB. The reasons

and conclusions I had come to about the surgery didn't change

because died, but I did spend a lot more time making

sure those decisions were sound.

The risks in surgery were less -- 37 minutes operating time

and under anesthesia, versus 2-7 hours; the recovery time

was far less -- 24 to 48 hours versus 2-8 weeks; the

risk of ulcer was virtually zero, compared to 3-18% in

other procedures; the risk of perforation during surgery

depended on the skill of the surgeon and with 600+ surgeries

to his credit, I didn't think I would find anyone more

skilled. And the weight loss was as good or better than

any other procedure. It was also easily reversible.

None of this could be said for any of the other procedures.

The RNY had a lot of different possible complications, from

poorly healing incisions, bowel obstruction, leaks from two

different connections, ulcerations and esophagitis. The

hess and scopinaro bypasses with duodenal switch resulted

in *major* and permanent rearrangement to the intestines that

could not be reversed. The banding procedures had their own

risks, of the band slipping, the stomach rupturing, and

they didn't result in effective long-term weight loss. And

all these procedures had longer surgery times and if they

were an open procedure, terrible incisions from stem to

stern with 6-8 weeks recovery time. I cried when I saw

pictures of one woman's incisions who had the procedure I

had first considered.

http://geocities.com/HotSprings/6698/Incision.htm

(In contrast, I have 5 small, 3/4 " incisions and never had

any pain from the incisions.)

I talked (by email) to as many patients as I could

of as many procedures as I could. I tested every " but " or

" why " or " how come? " until I had answers that satisfied me.

I think everybody should do that. Don't take my word or

anybody else's word for it (like anybody on this list needs

to hear that! I never saw such a researching bunch of people!)

Whatever decision you make should be the right decision for

*you* and we all reached the decision we did for our own

reasons.

> I had a lapcholy a few years ago. There was no question

> with my gall bladder surgery that I wanted the procedure.

> The acute attacks were frightening and extremely painful.

> And while I knew there were risks

> with the surgery, I was not overly concerned about 'waking up'.

Well, here's good news. There's less risk with the MGB than

there is in the lap gallbladder removal (the specific statistics

are in Dr. Rutledge's ASBS paper).

> And, to some extent I was blissfully unaware of the frequency of

> complications.

>

> For some reason this time, death is all I can think about.

You're better informed, so you are facing the decision with all

the facts this time. Confronting the prospect of death is

pretty unnerving, or at least it sure was for me. It's a very

real risk.

> I think this is partly because part of me sees this surgery

> as elective/cosmetic. (That is to say I have this little

> voice in my head that says - if I just ate differently and

> exercised, I wouldn't need it.

We've *all* heard that speech all our lives! It's become

part of us, part of the guilt we beat ourselves over the head

with. But even modern medical science has finally abandoned

that mantra. A great study Dr. Rutledge will mention during

the first clinic was a study of identical twins, separated

at birth, where one twin " exercised and ate right " and the

other didn't. The difference in their weights? 4 pounds.

That pretty well establishes that genetics plays a much

larger role in our obesity than not.

And if it were true that " exercising and eating right " would

work, none of us would be where we are today. We've *all*

exercised and gone on diets. We've lost the same 100 pounds

how many times? And it always comes back and brings friends.

> And, since there's no acute pain or known comorbidities,

> am I really in some kind of danger?) Rationally, I know

> that my extra 100+ pounds could cause a heart attack or

> other myriad of health problems - today - that I'd be faced

> to deal with. I already have mild elevation of BP,

> lipidemia, reflux, joint pain, etc.

Imagine living without any of that -- or can you? Or

imagine it in 10 years. I bet you are younger than me. (I'm

47). I wish I could have had this surgery 20 years ago or

even 10 years ago.

> I definitely want a better quality of life. Maybe because

> obesity is such an insidious disease, it's harder to

> 'believe' that this surgery is just as important to my

> health and wellbeing - long term.

Well, heart disease is a silent killer, too. It's hard for

most people to believe they have a life-threatening illness

until they have that first heart attack. I don't mean that

you are going to have a heart attack, I just mean that there

are more conditions than just obesity that are " silent killers, "

but nobody is out there kicking themselves in the head for

having their arteries routed out (which is dangerous and can

kill you, too) as a cure. Why should we feel guilty or less

worthy to get medical treatment for our own life-threatening

condition?

But me, personally, my main motivation for the surgery

wasn't the joint pain, or the fear of early death or any of

that. No, I wanted to look good and be able to do things

again. Just to be the " real me. " I was trapped in layers

of fat and I hated it and how I looked and how I felt.

Each of us has our own reasons, whatever they are.

> So, I guess what I'm trying to say is...I'd be very

> interested to know your feelings those 2 weeks prior

> to surgery. Did you have any misgivings or anxiety attacks?

Yes, definitely and the MGB support group helped a lot. It

didn't kick in full force until I had a surgery date, then

I had three weeks to second-guess myself, worry about it,

worry about my kids, and get myself wound up into a good

anxiety ball. Yes, I did all that. But by the second week,

I was really, really, really excited -- a lot like getting

ready to take a safari into dangerous but thrilling

new territory. I was happy and ready. Still worried, but

ready. I could still have changed my mind, but after I made

the final decision to have it, I was at peace with it.

I tried to deal with the possibilities that I would

have complications or even die, by preparing things for my

family and as many contingencies as I could think of and

actually could do something about. The rest, I just let

go of and turned over to God. I prayed a lot, for Dr.

Rutledge, for the other patients, for their families, for

my family.

> One other question...

> I tend to get myself worked up rather nicely before

> nerve-racking experiences. I don't know if my surgery

> will be in the morning or not. Do you know if Dr. R will

> prescribe Valium (or something) to keep the tension

> manageable?

I don't know. That's one you'd have to ask him, or probably

the anesthesiologist, actually, because that is who is

taking care of you before the surgery. They can put a

sedative in your I.V. and some of the other folks who have

had the surgery said they got that.

Me, I was too interested in everything going on (I just have

to *know*! I am so nosey!) to be worried the day of surgery and

I was wide awake until I got in the surgery room and made sure

they had me in the right place with the right doctor (getting the

wrong surgery by some other doctor is not my idea of an acceptable

risk of surgery!)

> I look forward to seeing more about your progress and your

> response.

>

> Kind regards,

>

> Debbie

Best wishes for you, whatever you decide, Debbie!

Hugs!

[Guest guest]

HI I am new to the group and like others have many questions and

concerns....I have been reading the posts which have been informative and

raising more questions and doubts....I don't even know this or have

heard of her before and my heart sank when I read she passed away and tears

runnimg down my face...may I ask what happened.....did something happen to

her in sugery or was it complications after surgery?

Thanks

Kendra...do I or don't I have the surgery

[Guest guest]

, thank you so much for this - I needed to read much of that. I have

high blood pressure, adult onset diabetes, bad knees, bad back, and, like

you, want to get back to the " old " me - that cute, thin, clothes hound that

I used to be!!!! Can't wait now - you have encouraged me beyond

belief!!! Joanne in Ohio

wrote:

>

> > ,

> >

> > I enjoy reading your messages. You certainly seem well

> > informed. I'm scheduled for surgery 27 July. I saw what

> > you've written to/about and that attorney...

> > Lundquist (sp?). Since you had your surgery

> > after 's death, I have to ask...did you

> > have any second thoughts?

>

> Yes. Lots. It is very sobering to realize that someone who

> shared her life and who was a member of the MGB family was

> suddenly gone, a mother of four, sister to Fanney, not a

> statistic, but a very real human being, a young woman,

> with no exceptional risks, less at risk even than I was.

> Here, then gone. Everyone on the list was greatly affected

> by 's death.

>

> Some good came of it, though, because all of us went into

> surgery afterwards with our eyes wide open.

>

> Some of us made last-words videos or letters for our

> children and loved ones, in case we didn't make it,

> etting them know that we loved them and that if we didn't

> make it, be glad that we passed doing something we wanted

> to do for ourselves. Some of us made " living wills " or

> directives about what should be done if we should end up

> comatose. You can't think about these things without having

> the chilling reality of the possibility settle around your

> shoulders like a damp fog.

>

> I think all of us have cried at some point, for , for

> ourselves, for what we could be and want to be, and fear

> that we'll let our families down, whether it is by being

> so fat we can't be of much use to them, or whether we die

> from surgery to cure us, or from fear that we can or

> can't ever go through with it, be who we want to be.

>

> There's also a certain fear of succeeding that comes in there

> somewhere, too. What will it be like to suddenly be " normal, "

> and have no reason to hide at home, to be expected to

> socialize, to get on the rides, to sit in the booths, to

> perch in a lawn chair, to wear plaid and horizontal stripes,

> to swing on a swing, to run and not be winded or embarrased

> or look like a rhinocerous in heat?

>

> All surgery has risks to it, particularly the risks of death from

> anaesthesia, unexpected allergic reactions, sepsis from

> contamination in the hospital, and this particular surgery

> has risks of sepsis or peritonitis from a wound during surgery

> or a leak after surgery.

>

> Rationally, I knew my risk of death was great at my weight,

> if not immediately, then too soon, before I would see my

> children have children, before I could get out and enjoy being

> on my own again. But that hadn't been enough to make me lose

> the weight and keep it off.

>

> The man I loved, the person I wanted to share life with, the

> person I wanted to be proud to have me by his side, died

> suddenly of a stroke in March (before 's death),

> at age 52. He wasn't overweight and he didn't smoke. That

> was devestating, but it brought home something for me, that

> life is precious and it may be short no matter what we do.

> That just may be our cards.

>

> But I wanted to *live* the life I have left and enjoy it

> and I could not do that fat.

>

> I looked *exactly* the same size and shape as my paternal

> grandmother. I knew that surgery was my only hope to overcome

> these bad genetic cards and my own bad habits.

>

> I also knew that Dr. Rutledge's procedure has the *lowest* risks

> of complications of all the procedures, plus it is the only

> surgery that is completely and easily reversible in a one-hour

> laparoscopic procedure.

>

> So if I were going to have the surgery, and I was bound and

> determined, the only sensible choice was the MGB. The reasons

> and conclusions I had come to about the surgery didn't change

> because died, but I did spend a lot more time making

> sure those decisions were sound.

>

> The risks in surgery were less -- 37 minutes operating time

> and under anesthesia, versus 2-7 hours; the recovery time

> was far less -- 24 to 48 hours versus 2-8 weeks; the

> risk of ulcer was virtually zero, compared to 3-18% in

> other procedures; the risk of perforation during surgery

> depended on the skill of the surgeon and with 600+ surgeries

> to his credit, I didn't think I would find anyone more

> skilled. And the weight loss was as good or better than

> any other procedure. It was also easily reversible.

>

> None of this could be said for any of the other procedures.

> The RNY had a lot of different possible complications, from

> poorly healing incisions, bowel obstruction, leaks from two

> different connections, ulcerations and esophagitis. The

> hess and scopinaro bypasses with duodenal switch resulted

> in *major* and permanent rearrangement to the intestines that

> could not be reversed. The banding procedures had their own

> risks, of the band slipping, the stomach rupturing, and

> they didn't result in effective long-term weight loss. And

> all these procedures had longer surgery times and if they

> were an open procedure, terrible incisions from stem to

> stern with 6-8 weeks recovery time. I cried when I saw

> pictures of one woman's incisions who had the procedure I

> had first considered.

>

> http://geocities.com/HotSprings/6698/Incision.htm

>

> (In contrast, I have 5 small, 3/4 " incisions and never had

> any pain from the incisions.)

>

> I talked (by email) to as many patients as I could

> of as many procedures as I could. I tested every " but " or

> " why " or " how come? " until I had answers that satisfied me.

> I think everybody should do that. Don't take my word or

> anybody else's word for it (like anybody on this list needs

> to hear that! I never saw such a researching bunch of people!)

>

> Whatever decision you make should be the right decision for

> *you* and we all reached the decision we did for our own

> reasons.

>

> > I had a lapcholy a few years ago. There was no question

> > with my gall bladder surgery that I wanted the procedure.

> > The acute attacks were frightening and extremely painful.

> > And while I knew there were risks

> > with the surgery, I was not overly concerned about 'waking up'.

>

> Well, here's good news. There's less risk with the MGB than

> there is in the lap gallbladder removal (the specific statistics

> are in Dr. Rutledge's ASBS paper).

>

> > And, to some extent I was blissfully unaware of the frequency of

> > complications.

> >

> > For some reason this time, death is all I can think about.

>

> You're better informed, so you are facing the decision with all

> the facts this time. Confronting the prospect of death is

> pretty unnerving, or at least it sure was for me. It's a very

> real risk.

>

> > I think this is partly because part of me sees this surgery

> > as elective/cosmetic. (That is to say I have this little

> > voice in my head that says - if I just ate differently and

> > exercised, I wouldn't need it.

>

> We've *all* heard that speech all our lives! It's become

> part of us, part of the guilt we beat ourselves over the head

> with. But even modern medical science has finally abandoned

> that mantra. A great study Dr. Rutledge will mention during

> the first clinic was a study of identical twins, separated

> at birth, where one twin " exercised and ate right " and the

> other didn't. The difference in their weights? 4 pounds.

>

> That pretty well establishes that genetics plays a much

> larger role in our obesity than not.

>

> And if it were true that " exercising and eating right " would

> work, none of us would be where we are today. We've *all*

> exercised and gone on diets. We've lost the same 100 pounds

> how many times? And it always comes back and brings friends.

>

> > And, since there's no acute pain or known comorbidities,

> > am I really in some kind of danger?) Rationally, I know

> > that my extra 100+ pounds could cause a heart attack or

> > other myriad of health problems - today - that I'd be faced

> > to deal with. I already have mild elevation of BP,

> > lipidemia, reflux, joint pain, etc.

>

> Imagine living without any of that -- or can you? Or

> imagine it in 10 years. I bet you are younger than me. (I'm

> 47). I wish I could have had this surgery 20 years ago or

> even 10 years ago.

>

> > I definitely want a better quality of life. Maybe because

> > obesity is such an insidious disease, it's harder to

> > 'believe' that this surgery is just as important to my

> > health and wellbeing - long term.

>

> Well, heart disease is a silent killer, too. It's hard for

> most people to believe they have a life-threatening illness

> until they have that first heart attack. I don't mean that

> you are going to have a heart attack, I just mean that there

> are more conditions than just obesity that are " silent killers, "

> but nobody is out there kicking themselves in the head for

> having their arteries routed out (which is dangerous and can

> kill you, too) as a cure. Why should we feel guilty or less

> worthy to get medical treatment for our own life-threatening

> condition?

>

> But me, personally, my main motivation for the surgery

> wasn't the joint pain, or the fear of early death or any of

> that. No, I wanted to look good and be able to do things

> again. Just to be the " real me. " I was trapped in layers

> of fat and I hated it and how I looked and how I felt.

> Each of us has our own reasons, whatever they are.

>

> > So, I guess what I'm trying to say is...I'd be very

> > interested to know your feelings those 2 weeks prior

> > to surgery. Did you have any misgivings or anxiety attacks?

>

> Yes, definitely and the MGB support group helped a lot. It

> didn't kick in full force until I had a surgery date, then

> I had three weeks to second-guess myself, worry about it,

> worry about my kids, and get myself wound up into a good

> anxiety ball. Yes, I did all that. But by the second week,

> I was really, really, really excited -- a lot like getting

> ready to take a safari into dangerous but thrilling

> new territory. I was happy and ready. Still worried, but

> ready. I could still have changed my mind, but after I made

> the final decision to have it, I was at peace with it.

> I tried to deal with the possibilities that I would

> have complications or even die, by preparing things for my

> family and as many contingencies as I could think of and

> actually could do something about. The rest, I just let

> go of and turned over to God. I prayed a lot, for Dr.

> Rutledge, for the other patients, for their families, for

> my family.

>

> > One other question...

> > I tend to get myself worked up rather nicely before

> > nerve-racking experiences. I don't know if my surgery

> > will be in the morning or not. Do you know if Dr. R will

> > prescribe Valium (or something) to keep the tension

> > manageable?

>

> I don't know. That's one you'd have to ask him, or probably

> the anesthesiologist, actually, because that is who is

> taking care of you before the surgery. They can put a

> sedative in your I.V. and some of the other folks who have

> had the surgery said they got that.

>

> Me, I was too interested in everything going on (I just have

> to *know*! I am so nosey!) to be worried the day of surgery and

> I was wide awake until I got in the surgery room and made sure

> they had me in the right place with the right doctor (getting the

> wrong surgery by some other doctor is not my idea of an acceptable

> risk of surgery!)

>

> > I look forward to seeing more about your progress and your

> > response.

> >

> > Kind regards,

> >

> > Debbie

>

> Best wishes for you, whatever you decide, Debbie!

>

> Hugs!

>

>

>

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