Re: Jenn, Jody, Brent, others . . . please help me think

[Guest guest]

If the die-off reaction is not severe, you may not want to change the dose

at all for the probiotic. But, just to let you know for the future, you

should start out with a very small amt. and work up to a whole capsule. Only

you know your kids and if you're not worried then that's what counts. Good

luck. You're a natural mom and you will be able to do what you need to to

gain control. Jody is very knowledgable and may be able to help you if you

need it. Jenn & K

Jenn, Jody, Brent, others . . . please help me think

> Dear Jenn,

>

> Holy cow! I just finished typing a very long post explaining some stuff

and lost it when the computer popped up saying it experienced an error. I

don't think I have the time and energy to type it out again in the coherent

fashion it was. This will be the incoherent version which matches my

current thought process.

>

> I didn't decrease the acidophilus. We are still having die-off (if that

is what it is). My friend convinced me to hang with it a couple more days

because she doesn't think this is solely a reaction to the acidophilus. The

die-off didn't occur until 5 days after I introduced the probiotic. And

since the kids are only passing one bowel a day, they aren't experiencing

constant diarrhea and loss of electrolytes and stuff. For these reasons, I

will follow my friends advice and hang on a few more days to see if this

works itself out. [i know that when you give an anti-fungal you are supposed

to expect die-off for 7 - 10 days and then things are supposed to improve

without cessation of the anti-fungal. Maybe I need to treat the probiotic

the same?]

>

> There are a couple different possibilities to what is happening:

> 1. The kids also just began a magnesium/calcium supplement. It could be

that I need to decrease their magnesium intake.

>

> 2. Also, our chelation was put on hold for this last week for 2 months

with Elle due to a ever-so-slightly elevated BUN. I am conflicted about

this, but to look on the bright side . . . I have 2 whole months to

completely focus on healing her gut without interference from the chelators.

All this is to say that she could be having die-off from the elimination of

the chelators (even though they were only transdermal).

>

> 3. In addition to this, it could be that their carb intake was more than

they could handle this week. I have really been trying to increase their

carbs to give them more calories and balance out an ammonia problem they are

having. But, I could just be going too fast.

>

> Today I need to introduce Elle to her milk thistle supplement so that I

can support her liver and reduce the little stress that it has experienced.

I don't want any variables other than that for a few days so everything else

needs to remain the same.

>

> Here are some of the things swirling in my head:

> 1. I need to get all my kids on all their supplements.

>

> 2. Then I need to find my kids baseline (like Brent has) where I know I

can return when things go haywire. This will be a little tricky because

Elaine's intro is not a perfect fit for us (no eggs for Elle, no casein for

anyone, and I am suspicious of a chicken sensitivity in Elle).

>

> 3. Then, I need to start SCD over again so that I can pinpoint

problematic foods better (rather than wondering whether the problem is a

supplement, a food, or the amount of a food since these things have been

constantly changing simultaneously since we began SCD).

>

> 3. Somehow I have to do this while rotating adequately so that Elle

doesn't develop more allergies (all the while remaining egg free, nut free,

and casein free).

>

> I am a bit overwhelmed by all this, and I am in the middle of trying to

figure out the best way to attack this situation.

>

> So to make a long story short, I haven't stopped the probiotic because I

can't have any more variables just now.

>

> I am sorry that this is so choppy and there may not be a good, logical

flow to what I am saying. It is a good reflection of my thinking right now

.. . . very disconnected and overwhelming. If you have any suggestions on a

game plan, I will consider them as I regroup and replan.

>

> JODY, IF YOU ARE READING THIS, PLEASE GIVE YOUR INPUT!

>

> Jeni Lynn (gastrointestinal problems)

> SCD 2 months

> mom to Margeaux, 6 yr. (heavy metal toxicity, add, gastrointestinal

problems)

> , 3 yr. (heavy metal toxicity, risk for add, gastrointestinal

problems)

> Elle, 18 mo. (heavy metal toxicity, leaky gut, eczema)

> SCD 4 months

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

You do have a lot going on. Your puzzle is complex and your learning

more as you go. Going slowly, changing one thing at a time,

developing possible theories then seeing if they turn out to be

true. I've always been a bit confused about " is it die off? or is

it a food intolerance? "

When I saw you increased their carbs of course this is what I latch

onto since it was the case with Ella to cause a reaction of

softness. If you started the higher glucose nearer the softer stool

then wouldn't that be more the culprit? You mentioned symptoms

occured 5 days after the probiotic was started? When did you raise

the glucose? Was it all at once? Or a gradual increase on the

glucose? Could you find a common dominator in the glucose foods you

give with some sort of glycemic index/count of sugar in each then

have a pretty good idea how much your giving each day?

I've often thought I should have some sort of count on how much sugar

is in each of Ella's glucoses to keep it pretty constant then add for

if she goes to school. You rotating so it might help too to get a

common denominator and apply math to her food intake. Realizeing

she'll need more as time goes on and can handle more on the days she

goes to pre-school or its a sunny day and we go to the

park....Clearly 1/2 cup of butternut squash has less carbs then 1/2

applesauce.

Its a little more guess work for me at this point. If i measured in

tablespoons, 1/4 cups, etc. I'd have a little more confidence giving

carbs late in the day then I do now.

When we got softness due to cold, interolence, die off, illegal, we

wouldn't go back to the intro diet it was still the Basics just less

carbs. Meats, Soup, Eggs, bananas, banana pancakes, Juice/water,

butternut squash, pearsauce, applesauce all in stage 1. Since Ella

was sensitive to milk we didn't do the dry curd or cheesecake either

at the intro.

For what its worth,

Brent

>

> Dear Jenn,

>

> Holy cow! I just finished typing a very long post explaining some

stuff and lost it when the computer popped up saying it experienced

an error. I don't think I have the time and energy to type it out

again in the coherent fashion it was. This will be the incoherent

version which matches my current thought process.

>

> I didn't decrease the acidophilus. We are still having die-off (if

that is what it is). My friend convinced me to hang with it a couple

more days because she doesn't think this is solely a reaction to the

acidophilus. The die-off didn't occur until 5 days after I

introduced the probiotic. And since the kids are only passing one

bowel a day, they aren't experiencing constant diarrhea and loss of

electrolytes and stuff. For these reasons, I will follow my friends

advice and hang on a few more days to see if this works itself out.

[i know that when you give an anti-fungal you are supposed to expect

die-off for 7 - 10 days and then things are supposed to improve

without cessation of the anti-fungal. Maybe I need to treat the

probiotic the same?]

>

> There are a couple different possibilities to what is happening:

> 1. The kids also just began a magnesium/calcium supplement. It

could be that I need to decrease their magnesium intake.

>

> 2. Also, our chelation was put on hold for this last week for 2

months with Elle due to a ever-so-slightly elevated BUN. I am

conflicted about this, but to look on the bright side . . . I have 2

whole months to completely focus on healing her gut without

interference from the chelators. All this is to say that she could

be having die-off from the elimination of the chelators (even though

they were only transdermal).

>

> 3. In addition to this, it could be that their carb intake was

more than they could handle this week. I have really been trying to

increase their carbs to give them more calories and balance out an

ammonia problem they are having. But, I could just be going too fast.

>

> Today I need to introduce Elle to her milk thistle supplement so

that I can support her liver and reduce the little stress that it has

experienced. I don't want any variables other than that for a few

days so everything else needs to remain the same.

>

> Here are some of the things swirling in my head:

> 1. I need to get all my kids on all their supplements.

>

> 2. Then I need to find my kids baseline (like Brent has) where I

know I can return when things go haywire. This will be a little

tricky because Elaine's intro is not a perfect fit for us (no eggs

for Elle, no casein for anyone, and I am suspicious of a chicken

sensitivity in Elle).

>

> 3. Then, I need to start SCD over again so that I can pinpoint

problematic foods better (rather than wondering whether the problem

is a supplement, a food, or the amount of a food since these things

have been constantly changing simultaneously since we began SCD).

>

> 3. Somehow I have to do this while rotating adequately so that

Elle doesn't develop more allergies (all the while remaining egg

free, nut free, and casein free).

>

> I am a bit overwhelmed by all this, and I am in the middle of

trying to figure out the best way to attack this situation.

>

> So to make a long story short, I haven't stopped the probiotic

because I can't have any more variables just now.

>

> I am sorry that this is so choppy and there may not be a good,

logical flow to what I am saying. It is a good reflection of my

thinking right now . . . very disconnected and overwhelming. If you

have any suggestions on a game plan, I will consider them as I

regroup and replan.

>

> JODY, IF YOU ARE READING THIS, PLEASE GIVE YOUR INPUT!

>

> Jeni Lynn (gastrointestinal problems)

> SCD 2 months

> mom to Margeaux, 6 yr. (heavy metal toxicity, add, gastrointestinal

problems)

> , 3 yr. (heavy metal toxicity, risk for add, gastrointestinal

problems)

> Elle, 18 mo. (heavy metal toxicity, leaky gut, eczema)

> SCD 4 months

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

I did read it, but I am seriously sleep deprived at this very moment

and your questions are tough ones. I'll think about it and post a

response soon.

Jody

mom to -7 and -9

SCD 1/03