Re: Tongue thrust, I was made to feel second rate

[Guest guest]

These folks may have been excellent dentists and orthos, but they

weren't worth a hoot at human relations, that's for sure.

Of course you weren't " bad " or " stupid. " And I'll bet you never once

woke up in the morning and thought, " I'm gonna practice my tongue

thrust 15 times today, just to annoy them. "

I, too, had a childhood ortho who never even spoke to his patients,

after saying, " Open up. " He'd vanish into the back room, and come

back with something new, which he then installed and sent you on your

way, with no explanation. Not even a mirror with a chance to see what

he'd done to you. The whole thing would have gone so much better if

he'd just explained a bit to me about what he was doing and how.

In fact, I am coming more and more to wonder about the wisdom of

doing much orthodontia to children, which is heresy, I know. I also

understand that appearances are really important in the adolescent

years, and that a good bite and straight teeth help with all sorts of

other things, including general health. But I do think it's

unfortunate that so many children get so little explanation or

information.

I've also wondered why almost all the children I know in braces have

the metal brackets. Are they offered options? Or is the assumption

just that " all the kids want them. " I did not, most emphatically!

Fortunately, my second ortho, who I only met well into adulthood, is

good with both children and adults. I will never forget his sweet

manner when, after hearing a mother's plea for help getting her son

to brush better, he stopped what he was doing on the boy's sister,

and said, " You're gonna help your brother with this problem about

cleaning, aren't you? You know how to do it, and you can show him he

can, too. He really can, he's just not taking the time to do it. " And

I thought, oooooh, if I'd only had someone like that working on me

when I was 13!

Cammie

>

> I couldn't help but ruffle my feathers a little when reading some

> recent posts regarding tongue thrust. From the time I was about

> ten years old, and through two rounds of braces, lower jaw

> advancement and a nearly useless genioplasty, I was also

> made to feel " bad " and " stupid " for having tongue thrust. I wore

> spurs on the back of my lower teeth for 12 years, but never once

> did someone explain to me what I was doing so wrong and

> perhaps how to correct it. Why didn't they just cut a half inch

off

> my tongue or something, I was treated like an animal about it.

> The fact is, I really don't think I was the stupid individual I was

> regarded as, somehow I managed to graduate at the top of my

> high school class and earn two college degrees. Then my

> orthodontist really boosted my self worth by explaining that I was

> one of his two most difficult cases ever, thanks a lot.... I knew

I

> was a freak, but please. Then after its all over, and ten years

> after the jaw surgery, I'm finally sick of still having lip

> incompetence and a very recessive chin, when inquiring to my

> oral surgeon about further chin correction, they'd consult with

> me, but had the gumption to tell me " I looked wonderful " in my

> post ops and nobody " could imagine that I'd ever need more

> work " .

[Guest guest]

These folks may have been excellent dentists and orthos, but they

weren't worth a hoot at human relations, that's for sure.

Of course you weren't " bad " or " stupid. " And I'll bet you never once

woke up in the morning and thought, " I'm gonna practice my tongue

thrust 15 times today, just to annoy them. "

I, too, had a childhood ortho who never even spoke to his patients,

after saying, " Open up. " He'd vanish into the back room, and come

back with something new, which he then installed and sent you on your

way, with no explanation. Not even a mirror with a chance to see what

he'd done to you. The whole thing would have gone so much better if

he'd just explained a bit to me about what he was doing and how.

In fact, I am coming more and more to wonder about the wisdom of

doing much orthodontia to children, which is heresy, I know. I also

understand that appearances are really important in the adolescent

years, and that a good bite and straight teeth help with all sorts of

other things, including general health. But I do think it's

unfortunate that so many children get so little explanation or

information.

I've also wondered why almost all the children I know in braces have

the metal brackets. Are they offered options? Or is the assumption

just that " all the kids want them. " I did not, most emphatically!

Fortunately, my second ortho, who I only met well into adulthood, is

good with both children and adults. I will never forget his sweet

manner when, after hearing a mother's plea for help getting her son

to brush better, he stopped what he was doing on the boy's sister,

and said, " You're gonna help your brother with this problem about

cleaning, aren't you? You know how to do it, and you can show him he

can, too. He really can, he's just not taking the time to do it. " And

I thought, oooooh, if I'd only had someone like that working on me

when I was 13!

Cammie

>

> I couldn't help but ruffle my feathers a little when reading some

> recent posts regarding tongue thrust. From the time I was about

> ten years old, and through two rounds of braces, lower jaw

> advancement and a nearly useless genioplasty, I was also

> made to feel " bad " and " stupid " for having tongue thrust. I wore

> spurs on the back of my lower teeth for 12 years, but never once

> did someone explain to me what I was doing so wrong and

> perhaps how to correct it. Why didn't they just cut a half inch

off

> my tongue or something, I was treated like an animal about it.

> The fact is, I really don't think I was the stupid individual I was

> regarded as, somehow I managed to graduate at the top of my

> high school class and earn two college degrees. Then my

> orthodontist really boosted my self worth by explaining that I was

> one of his two most difficult cases ever, thanks a lot.... I knew

I

> was a freak, but please. Then after its all over, and ten years

> after the jaw surgery, I'm finally sick of still having lip

> incompetence and a very recessive chin, when inquiring to my

> oral surgeon about further chin correction, they'd consult with

> me, but had the gumption to tell me " I looked wonderful " in my

> post ops and nobody " could imagine that I'd ever need more

> work " .

[Guest guest]

Sorry if I offend anyone by saying this, but...

Doing orthodontia to children is sometimes the best time to do it,

especially if you can correct a malocclusion without having to

perform surgery later in life.

If half your 7th grade class has metal brackets, and the kids on TV

have metal brackets, you won't think twice about NOT having metal

brackets. Combine that with the fact that metal brackets are cheaper,

it's an obvious choice. Only adults are concerned about hiding metal

brackets because it looks ugly, juvenile, or whatever. I personally

didn't care--I have metal brackets, my coworker has metal brackets,

and I don't think any less of myself, nor do I think I should.

As for the original post, is it so bad to be a difficult case? I'm a

freak too--I am missing 2nd molars on the top, never grew an adult

bicuspid on the left, had another impacted bicuspid on the right that

needed surgery to fix, implant on the bottom left, had to have

surgery on top and bottom to fix a crossbite, not to mention my teeth

were at an angle, my chin was off-center, etc. Was it my fault? Of

course not. Being a freak isn't your fault either, and it's nothing

to be ashamed of. Maybe it's time to listen to people when they tell

you that you look wonderful, and start believing it. Everybody's not

out to get you down.

> >

> > I couldn't help but ruffle my feathers a little when reading some

> > recent posts regarding tongue thrust. From the time I was about

> > ten years old, and through two rounds of braces, lower jaw

> > advancement and a nearly useless genioplasty, I was also

> > made to feel " bad " and " stupid " for having tongue thrust. I wore

> > spurs on the back of my lower teeth for 12 years, but never once

> > did someone explain to me what I was doing so wrong and

> > perhaps how to correct it. Why didn't they just cut a half inch

> off

> > my tongue or something, I was treated like an animal about it.

> > The fact is, I really don't think I was the stupid individual I

was

> > regarded as, somehow I managed to graduate at the top of my

> > high school class and earn two college degrees. Then my

> > orthodontist really boosted my self worth by explaining that I

was

> > one of his two most difficult cases ever, thanks a lot.... I

knew

> I

> > was a freak, but please. Then after its all over, and ten years

> > after the jaw surgery, I'm finally sick of still having lip

> > incompetence and a very recessive chin, when inquiring to my

> > oral surgeon about further chin correction, they'd consult with

> > me, but had the gumption to tell me " I looked wonderful " in my

> > post ops and nobody " could imagine that I'd ever need more

> > work " .

[Guest guest]

Sorry if I offend anyone by saying this, but...

Doing orthodontia to children is sometimes the best time to do it,

especially if you can correct a malocclusion without having to

perform surgery later in life.

If half your 7th grade class has metal brackets, and the kids on TV

have metal brackets, you won't think twice about NOT having metal

brackets. Combine that with the fact that metal brackets are cheaper,

it's an obvious choice. Only adults are concerned about hiding metal

brackets because it looks ugly, juvenile, or whatever. I personally

didn't care--I have metal brackets, my coworker has metal brackets,

and I don't think any less of myself, nor do I think I should.

As for the original post, is it so bad to be a difficult case? I'm a

freak too--I am missing 2nd molars on the top, never grew an adult

bicuspid on the left, had another impacted bicuspid on the right that

needed surgery to fix, implant on the bottom left, had to have

surgery on top and bottom to fix a crossbite, not to mention my teeth

were at an angle, my chin was off-center, etc. Was it my fault? Of

course not. Being a freak isn't your fault either, and it's nothing

to be ashamed of. Maybe it's time to listen to people when they tell

you that you look wonderful, and start believing it. Everybody's not

out to get you down.

> >

> > I couldn't help but ruffle my feathers a little when reading some

> > recent posts regarding tongue thrust. From the time I was about

> > ten years old, and through two rounds of braces, lower jaw

> > advancement and a nearly useless genioplasty, I was also

> > made to feel " bad " and " stupid " for having tongue thrust. I wore

> > spurs on the back of my lower teeth for 12 years, but never once

> > did someone explain to me what I was doing so wrong and

> > perhaps how to correct it. Why didn't they just cut a half inch

> off

> > my tongue or something, I was treated like an animal about it.

> > The fact is, I really don't think I was the stupid individual I

was

> > regarded as, somehow I managed to graduate at the top of my

> > high school class and earn two college degrees. Then my

> > orthodontist really boosted my self worth by explaining that I

was

> > one of his two most difficult cases ever, thanks a lot.... I

knew

> I

> > was a freak, but please. Then after its all over, and ten years

> > after the jaw surgery, I'm finally sick of still having lip

> > incompetence and a very recessive chin, when inquiring to my

> > oral surgeon about further chin correction, they'd consult with

> > me, but had the gumption to tell me " I looked wonderful " in my

> > post ops and nobody " could imagine that I'd ever need more

> > work " .

[Guest guest]

> >

> > I couldn't help but ruffle my feathers a little when reading

some

> > recent posts regarding tongue thrust. From the time I was

about

> > ten years old, and through two rounds of braces, lower jaw

> > advancement and a nearly useless genioplasty, I was also

> > made to feel " bad " and " stupid " for having tongue thrust. I

wore

> > spurs on the back of my lower teeth for 12 years, but never

once

> > did someone explain to me what I was doing so wrong and

> > perhaps how to correct it. Why didn't they just cut a half inch

> off

> > my tongue or something, I was treated like an animal about

it.

> > The fact is, I really don't think I was the stupid individual I was

> > regarded as, somehow I managed to graduate at the top of

my

> > high school class and earn two college degrees. Then my

> > orthodontist really boosted my self worth by explaining that I

was

> > one of his two most difficult cases ever, thanks a lot.... I knew

> I

> > was a freak, but please. Then after its all over, and ten years

> > after the jaw surgery, I'm finally sick of still having lip

> > incompetence and a very recessive chin, when inquiring to

my

> > oral surgeon about further chin correction, they'd consult with

> > me, but had the gumption to tell me " I looked wonderful " in

my

> > post ops and nobody " could imagine that I'd ever need more

> > work " .

[Guest guest]

> >

> > I couldn't help but ruffle my feathers a little when reading

some

> > recent posts regarding tongue thrust. From the time I was

about

> > ten years old, and through two rounds of braces, lower jaw

> > advancement and a nearly useless genioplasty, I was also

> > made to feel " bad " and " stupid " for having tongue thrust. I

wore

> > spurs on the back of my lower teeth for 12 years, but never

once

> > did someone explain to me what I was doing so wrong and

> > perhaps how to correct it. Why didn't they just cut a half inch

> off

> > my tongue or something, I was treated like an animal about

it.

> > The fact is, I really don't think I was the stupid individual I was

> > regarded as, somehow I managed to graduate at the top of

my

> > high school class and earn two college degrees. Then my

> > orthodontist really boosted my self worth by explaining that I

was

> > one of his two most difficult cases ever, thanks a lot.... I knew

> I

> > was a freak, but please. Then after its all over, and ten years

> > after the jaw surgery, I'm finally sick of still having lip

> > incompetence and a very recessive chin, when inquiring to

my

> > oral surgeon about further chin correction, they'd consult with

> > me, but had the gumption to tell me " I looked wonderful " in

my

> > post ops and nobody " could imagine that I'd ever need more

> > work " .

[Guest guest]

Interesting perspective, . It's true that a lot of later

problems can be prevented by early intervention, I know. And I know

if I were doing it again, I would choose all metal. (although I hope

fervently that such is not a choice I'll ever have to make again!) I

do know, too, that technologies and basic knowledge of how these

things work have changed by light years since I met my first ortho

back in the 1950s.

And I have heard that kids really do want all that stuff in their

mouths. I reckon I'm a freak, too -- because I didn't. I cried as a

child, I cried as an adult!

But I'll bet we agree that any health professional who makes a

patient -- and particularly a child! -- feel ashamed of a condition

is not doing a very good job. I can think of things I might be

ashamed of having -- but those generally come about because of

something the patient does or doesn't choose to do. Such is hardly

the case with a tongue thrust, from all I've ever heard.

And nope. You don't offend me, anyhow, in the least.

Cammie

>

> Sorry if I offend anyone by saying this, but...

>

> Doing orthodontia to children is sometimes the best time to do it,

> especially if you can correct a malocclusion without having to

> perform surgery later in life.

>

> If half your 7th grade class has metal brackets, and the kids on TV

> have metal brackets, you won't think twice about NOT having metal

> brackets. Combine that with the fact that metal brackets are

cheaper,

> it's an obvious choice. Only adults are concerned about hiding

metal

> brackets because it looks ugly, juvenile, or whatever. I personally

> didn't care--I have metal brackets, my coworker has metal brackets,

> and I don't think any less of myself, nor do I think I should.

>

> As for the original post, is it so bad to be a difficult case? I'm

a

> freak too--I am missing 2nd molars on the top, never grew an adult

> bicuspid on the left, had another impacted bicuspid on the right

that

> needed surgery to fix, implant on the bottom left, had to have

> surgery on top and bottom to fix a crossbite, not to mention my

teeth

> were at an angle, my chin was off-center, etc. Was it my fault? Of

> course not. Being a freak isn't your fault either, and it's nothing

> to be ashamed of. Maybe it's time to listen to people when they

tell

> you that you look wonderful, and start believing it. Everybody's

not

> out to get you down.

>

>

[Guest guest]

Interesting perspective, . It's true that a lot of later

problems can be prevented by early intervention, I know. And I know

if I were doing it again, I would choose all metal. (although I hope

fervently that such is not a choice I'll ever have to make again!) I

do know, too, that technologies and basic knowledge of how these

things work have changed by light years since I met my first ortho

back in the 1950s.

And I have heard that kids really do want all that stuff in their

mouths. I reckon I'm a freak, too -- because I didn't. I cried as a

child, I cried as an adult!

But I'll bet we agree that any health professional who makes a

patient -- and particularly a child! -- feel ashamed of a condition

is not doing a very good job. I can think of things I might be

ashamed of having -- but those generally come about because of

something the patient does or doesn't choose to do. Such is hardly

the case with a tongue thrust, from all I've ever heard.

And nope. You don't offend me, anyhow, in the least.

Cammie

>

> Sorry if I offend anyone by saying this, but...

>

> Doing orthodontia to children is sometimes the best time to do it,

> especially if you can correct a malocclusion without having to

> perform surgery later in life.

>

> If half your 7th grade class has metal brackets, and the kids on TV

> have metal brackets, you won't think twice about NOT having metal

> brackets. Combine that with the fact that metal brackets are

cheaper,

> it's an obvious choice. Only adults are concerned about hiding

metal

> brackets because it looks ugly, juvenile, or whatever. I personally

> didn't care--I have metal brackets, my coworker has metal brackets,

> and I don't think any less of myself, nor do I think I should.

>

> As for the original post, is it so bad to be a difficult case? I'm

a

> freak too--I am missing 2nd molars on the top, never grew an adult

> bicuspid on the left, had another impacted bicuspid on the right

that

> needed surgery to fix, implant on the bottom left, had to have

> surgery on top and bottom to fix a crossbite, not to mention my

teeth

> were at an angle, my chin was off-center, etc. Was it my fault? Of

> course not. Being a freak isn't your fault either, and it's nothing

> to be ashamed of. Maybe it's time to listen to people when they

tell

> you that you look wonderful, and start believing it. Everybody's

not

> out to get you down.

>

>

[Guest guest]

I never had spurs for thrusting... instead I had a tongue crib?

Anyone ever have one of those?

Very hard to describe, but nasty nonetheless. Basically it was like

a cage that was as wide as the roof of your mouth. It was fixed to

the roof of your mouth, a little ways behind your front teeth, and

hung down about 1/2 inch I think. It's purpose was to catch or stop

your tongue from pushing against your front teeth when you swallowed.

I hated that thing more than I hated the headgear

[Guest guest]

I never had spurs for thrusting... instead I had a tongue crib?

Anyone ever have one of those?

Very hard to describe, but nasty nonetheless. Basically it was like

a cage that was as wide as the roof of your mouth. It was fixed to

the roof of your mouth, a little ways behind your front teeth, and

hung down about 1/2 inch I think. It's purpose was to catch or stop

your tongue from pushing against your front teeth when you swallowed.

I hated that thing more than I hated the headgear

[Guest guest]

You poor thing, you were truly abused by your orthodontist! I

know things are considerably better today, than 20-25 years ago

when I had my " first " round of braces. But, I honestly think that

there are people out there who truly enjoyed inventing these 20th

century torture devices to intimidate, humiliate, and cause

suffering in children. Indeed, just like in my case the headgear,

the spurs, your " tongue crib " didn't do a lick of good. Just robbed

you of enjoying your childhood. Hey, perhaps a class action

lawsuit against the inventor of the headgear and " the crib " for

who knows what kind of psychological damage!, OK, I'm kidding

some on that one, but the way I look at it, no doc should expect a

kid to wear something, he wouldn't wear to the mall or a public

gathering himself. I'll never forget two different sights that scared

the dickens out of me. One was a kid whose headgear bar or

whatever you called it had wires going back and forth between

his teeth and the bar.... absolutely no way to get that thing off.

Another was a poor girl I saw walking into the orthodontist's

office wearing a full top/bottom headgear AND one of those

gnarly old Milwaukee Scolosis braces. What sadness! I had a

chest deformity and some scolosis of my own, so was naturally

terrified of the concept of being tortured like she was. Fortunately

it never happened, although the chest issue took two adult era

surgeries to fix up as well.

>

> I never had spurs for thrusting... instead I had a tongue crib?

> Anyone ever have one of those?

>

> Very hard to describe, but nasty nonetheless. Basically it was

like

> a cage that was as wide as the roof of your mouth. It was fixed

to

> the roof of your mouth, a little ways behind your front teeth, and

> hung down about 1/2 inch I think. It's purpose was to catch or

stop

> your tongue from pushing against your front teeth when you

swallowed.

>

> I hated that thing more than I hated the headgear

[Guest guest]

You poor thing, you were truly abused by your orthodontist! I

know things are considerably better today, than 20-25 years ago

when I had my " first " round of braces. But, I honestly think that

there are people out there who truly enjoyed inventing these 20th

century torture devices to intimidate, humiliate, and cause

suffering in children. Indeed, just like in my case the headgear,

the spurs, your " tongue crib " didn't do a lick of good. Just robbed

you of enjoying your childhood. Hey, perhaps a class action

lawsuit against the inventor of the headgear and " the crib " for

who knows what kind of psychological damage!, OK, I'm kidding

some on that one, but the way I look at it, no doc should expect a

kid to wear something, he wouldn't wear to the mall or a public

gathering himself. I'll never forget two different sights that scared

the dickens out of me. One was a kid whose headgear bar or

whatever you called it had wires going back and forth between

his teeth and the bar.... absolutely no way to get that thing off.

Another was a poor girl I saw walking into the orthodontist's

office wearing a full top/bottom headgear AND one of those

gnarly old Milwaukee Scolosis braces. What sadness! I had a

chest deformity and some scolosis of my own, so was naturally

terrified of the concept of being tortured like she was. Fortunately

it never happened, although the chest issue took two adult era

surgeries to fix up as well.

>

> I never had spurs for thrusting... instead I had a tongue crib?

> Anyone ever have one of those?

>

> Very hard to describe, but nasty nonetheless. Basically it was

like

> a cage that was as wide as the roof of your mouth. It was fixed

to

> the roof of your mouth, a little ways behind your front teeth, and

> hung down about 1/2 inch I think. It's purpose was to catch or

stop

> your tongue from pushing against your front teeth when you

swallowed.

>

> I hated that thing more than I hated the headgear

[Guest guest]

Headgear, WOW

What did you have done?

And, what is the purpose of the headgear?

I am having surgery in 15 days!!!!!!!!!!!!

I have never heard anything about headgear!

Thanks

Sharelle

denakb2000 wrote:

I never had spurs for thrusting... instead I had a tongue crib?

Anyone ever have one of those?

Very hard to describe, but nasty nonetheless. Basically it was like

a cage that was as wide as the roof of your mouth. It was fixed to

the roof of your mouth, a little ways behind your front teeth, and

hung down about 1/2 inch I think. It's purpose was to catch or stop

your tongue from pushing against your front teeth when you swallowed.

I hated that thing more than I hated the headgear

[Guest guest]

Headgear, WOW

What did you have done?

And, what is the purpose of the headgear?

I am having surgery in 15 days!!!!!!!!!!!!

I have never heard anything about headgear!

Thanks

Sharelle

denakb2000 wrote:

I never had spurs for thrusting... instead I had a tongue crib?

Anyone ever have one of those?

Very hard to describe, but nasty nonetheless. Basically it was like

a cage that was as wide as the roof of your mouth. It was fixed to

the roof of your mouth, a little ways behind your front teeth, and

hung down about 1/2 inch I think. It's purpose was to catch or stop

your tongue from pushing against your front teeth when you swallowed.

I hated that thing more than I hated the headgear

[Guest guest]

Headgear, I think, is mainly -- but not exclusively -- used for

children now, to apply extraoral pressure when the molars need to be

moved or stabilized, or when growth in a specific direction needs to

be encouraged.

Essentially, as I understand it, it's a sort of elasticized system

that fits into something wired into the mouth -- most often a molar

tube on a band -- to get some pressure working on those back teeth,

to direct growth or stabilize things, or even encourage movement. It

can be supported by bands around the neck or headcaps or bands on

top of the head. These are straps, not bands as in elastics.

There are a lot of different types, I think, and some even set up a

system to move jaws and/or teeth forward, with some sort of bar or

facemask thingie with elastics or wires pulling from the front.

None of it sounds like fun to me. But I suppose one does what one

must, and there are other worse alternatives.

If my ortho had said I had to do it, I'd have tried, and tried in

good spirits. But I'm mighty glad he didn't.

Cammie

> Headgear, WOW

> What did you have done?

> And, what is the purpose of the headgear?

>

> I am having surgery in 15 days!!!!!!!!!!!!

>

> I have never heard anything about headgear!

>

> Thanks

> Sharelle

>

[Guest guest]

Headgear, I think, is mainly -- but not exclusively -- used for

children now, to apply extraoral pressure when the molars need to be

moved or stabilized, or when growth in a specific direction needs to

be encouraged.

Essentially, as I understand it, it's a sort of elasticized system

that fits into something wired into the mouth -- most often a molar

tube on a band -- to get some pressure working on those back teeth,

to direct growth or stabilize things, or even encourage movement. It

can be supported by bands around the neck or headcaps or bands on

top of the head. These are straps, not bands as in elastics.

There are a lot of different types, I think, and some even set up a

system to move jaws and/or teeth forward, with some sort of bar or

facemask thingie with elastics or wires pulling from the front.

None of it sounds like fun to me. But I suppose one does what one

must, and there are other worse alternatives.

If my ortho had said I had to do it, I'd have tried, and tried in

good spirits. But I'm mighty glad he didn't.

Cammie

> Headgear, WOW

> What did you have done?

> And, what is the purpose of the headgear?

>

> I am having surgery in 15 days!!!!!!!!!!!!

>

> I have never heard anything about headgear!

>

> Thanks

> Sharelle

>