Guest guest Posted March 12, 2003 Report Share Posted March 12, 2003 Okay guys -- we're now talking a matter of professional ethics as you will see in my explanation below. It's NOT just a matter of skin weight (which,yes, I wanted to know ... and yes, I paid for this surgery to have this information as well ... and yes, my surgeon knew I wanted this information). I am VERY well grounded, and thankful for my health, but for those of you who suggest that I move on (and I respect your opinions), here's the story. For almost 4 weeks I've been TRYING to find out the weight of the skin I had removed during my panniculectomy on 2/14. And now, from all appearances, someone's not taking personal accountability for their mistake. Yes, to err is human, but in the medical world, there is a higher standard. To backup, I personally spoke to doctor first post-op visit, day 3 post-op about the weight of my pannus. She didn't remember. Said it would be in O.R. notes. I waited to Day 6, 2nd post-op visit. Inquired with doctor, said she still didn't have O.R. notes (nurses notes), so she couldn't say. Said she'd let me know. The next week, I called hospital and faxed them a records release for O.R. surgeon's / nurses notes. Received surgeons notes but NOT the O.R. nurses notes from the hospital. I requested the O.R. nurses notes for 2-1/2 weeks. Never got them. Surgeon requested O.R. nurses notes for 2-1/2 weeks, never got them. I finally called hospital Risk Management on Monday afternoon to get things moving. Boy, did they. I read surgeons O.R. notes. There was NO MENTION of skin removal weight. In the surgeons notes, where standard info line says " skin weight, " doctors dictation says " see nurses notes. " I QUOTE - DOCTORS SURGICAL REPORT SAYS: " The abdominal skin and fat that was excised was weighed and was then discarded (see nursing notes for the exact weight). " This is in the doctor's surgical notes, and I have them. This was PROTOCOL set by my surgeon. Bottom line, O.R. Nurse did NOT follow doctor's orders. After speaking with my surgeon's office and her nurse, the nurse reiterated surgeon's notes DID REQUIRE the O.R. nurse to write down the weight and the surgeon knew (before my surgery) that I wanted that information. So, from her surgical notes above, the surgeon is in the clear and she DID put this in her notes (before my inquiry, mind you) AND the surgeon put her protocol to the nurses there to weight the specimin. (The OR nurses WERE NOT the surgeon's nurses, but employees of the hospital.) Now, the surgeons nurse agree's there's a BIG problem and that more than likely, Hospital Risk Management will be involved. The nurse mentioned how this is lawsuit potential (that the hospital didn't do their job), that the surgeon set the protocol and the hospital surgical staff did NOT follow through and do their job. Now, I explained I'm not a litigious person, but dammit, this surgery was a lot of money, and if the shoe were on the other foot, by God, that hospital would be coming after ME with both barrells. Also, another point is that I paid for a service (marked up 1000%) and didn't get it. Furthermore, this is how MORE COSTLY life and death mistakes happen. My surgeon's nurse (also a surgical nurse - but works strictly in the office) also said that, as we spoke late yesterday, she had " just " received the O.R. nurses " ADDENDUM " to the " nurses notes " of 3-1/2 weeks ago by FAX from the hospital. That ADDENDUM was signed and DATED YESTERDAY and it stated that the weight of the pannus (skin) was " 3 lbs. " Again, that report or " addendum " by the nurse was DATED YESTERDAY. When the hospital records supervisor called me yesterday, he said he had just " run the OR nurse down " as she had not " completed " her report and, after 3-1/2 weeks, asked her to 'remember' the weight of the pannus of my particular surgery. Incredible. So, the OR nurse amazingly " remembers " my surgery, writes an " ADDENDUM " to the official record (to include the weight of the pannus) that she " remembers " is " 3 lbs. " Liar. And this is where I'm pissed. She's covering her ass, and is now insulting my intelligence by thinking she can now make an " addendum " to the original surgery notes (where she had forgot to weigh and annotate the skin). Furthermore, we are speaking of a coverup as damage control and, what's even WORSE than simply admitting her mistake, is BREACHING PROFESSIONAL ETHICS!!! This is where I'm drawing the line. My surgeons nurse said this is TROUBLE with a capital " t. " Being an OR nurse herself, she said this is unbelieveable, and she has never seen such an addendum. An " addendum " from surgery 3-1/2 weeks ago and they expect US to believe that the nurse actually remembed that exact amount and is NOW reporting it????? Also, what really perked our attention was that the weight was NOT 3.1245 lbs, or 3.275 kg or 3.44 lbs, BUT EXACTLY " 3 lbs. " Huummmm. When my surgeons received the hospital OR nurses " addendum " late yesterday evening (by fax), they immediately went into damage control, as did I. Hospital Risk Management called today and left this message on my recorder. I'd say they are CERTAINLY dodging a bullet. Hi *****, this is *******, the Risk Manager at Alaska Regional Hospital. I’m returning your phone call from yesterday afternoon. I’m sorry I couldn’t get back with you sooner. I understand there was a problem, umm, with the, uhh, the nurse not weighing, uhhh, the tissue, the specimin tissue, and I talked to *********, ummm, he called me as well to let me know what happened as well, so, I’m so disheartened and so sorry this has happened, ummm, and I agree, We have some systems problems here and process problems with this whole thing that we need to, uuuhhh, correct. So, please give me a call so I can get more details from you. Ummm, I’m very interested in hearing about the problem and, umm, will be in and out with meetings all day but you can, you know, call me back ... Another issue is, if the INSURANCE COMPANY ever wants to challenge me for any reason (even though this was preauthorized, but just IF), i.e. cosmetic vs. medically necessary, i.e. " x " amount of pounds pulling on back, etc., I have NO DOCUMENTATION AS TO THE WEIGHT. The O.R. nurses " recollection " after 3-1/2 weeks is embarassing, to say the least. Okay - that's the story. It's now come down to professional ethics. Say what you will, but would YOU want to have future surgeries in a hospital where staff knowingly are compromising records? I certainly would not, and my insurance mandates using them as a preferred provider. It is for others, as well as myself, that I am taking on this battle. Bobbie Anchorage ********************************************************************** Date: Wed, 12 Mar 2003 22:36:13 -0000 Bobbi, unbundle thy undies! The chart at your surgeon's office has his dictated notes in it...look THERE. It is a record of everything that happened during your surgery. Your frustration is certainly heard and felt, but it feels like time to focus on simething else and move on...you have a LIFE! Get on with it! Love, Corrine *********************************** Subject: Re: SKIN WEIGHT Bobbie, Each time I asked my surgeon how much he took off he said he would tell me the next time he saw me - never happened. I was going to be checked for a staple line disruption and requested my surgical notes from the hospital. They enclosed both my bypass and PS notes so I know know. 5lbs off the belly and about 2 1/2 off of each arm. Marjie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 12, 2003 Report Share Posted March 12, 2003 Okay guys -- we're now talking a matter of professional ethics as you will see in my explanation below. It's NOT just a matter of skin weight (which,yes, I wanted to know ... and yes, I paid for this surgery to have this information as well ... and yes, my surgeon knew I wanted this information). I am VERY well grounded, and thankful for my health, but for those of you who suggest that I move on (and I respect your opinions), here's the story. For almost 4 weeks I've been TRYING to find out the weight of the skin I had removed during my panniculectomy on 2/14. And now, from all appearances, someone's not taking personal accountability for their mistake. Yes, to err is human, but in the medical world, there is a higher standard. To backup, I personally spoke to doctor first post-op visit, day 3 post-op about the weight of my pannus. She didn't remember. Said it would be in O.R. notes. I waited to Day 6, 2nd post-op visit. Inquired with doctor, said she still didn't have O.R. notes (nurses notes), so she couldn't say. Said she'd let me know. The next week, I called hospital and faxed them a records release for O.R. surgeon's / nurses notes. Received surgeons notes but NOT the O.R. nurses notes from the hospital. I requested the O.R. nurses notes for 2-1/2 weeks. Never got them. Surgeon requested O.R. nurses notes for 2-1/2 weeks, never got them. I finally called hospital Risk Management on Monday afternoon to get things moving. Boy, did they. I read surgeons O.R. notes. There was NO MENTION of skin removal weight. In the surgeons notes, where standard info line says " skin weight, " doctors dictation says " see nurses notes. " I QUOTE - DOCTORS SURGICAL REPORT SAYS: " The abdominal skin and fat that was excised was weighed and was then discarded (see nursing notes for the exact weight). " This is in the doctor's surgical notes, and I have them. This was PROTOCOL set by my surgeon. Bottom line, O.R. Nurse did NOT follow doctor's orders. After speaking with my surgeon's office and her nurse, the nurse reiterated surgeon's notes DID REQUIRE the O.R. nurse to write down the weight and the surgeon knew (before my surgery) that I wanted that information. So, from her surgical notes above, the surgeon is in the clear and she DID put this in her notes (before my inquiry, mind you) AND the surgeon put her protocol to the nurses there to weight the specimin. (The OR nurses WERE NOT the surgeon's nurses, but employees of the hospital.) Now, the surgeons nurse agree's there's a BIG problem and that more than likely, Hospital Risk Management will be involved. The nurse mentioned how this is lawsuit potential (that the hospital didn't do their job), that the surgeon set the protocol and the hospital surgical staff did NOT follow through and do their job. Now, I explained I'm not a litigious person, but dammit, this surgery was a lot of money, and if the shoe were on the other foot, by God, that hospital would be coming after ME with both barrells. Also, another point is that I paid for a service (marked up 1000%) and didn't get it. Furthermore, this is how MORE COSTLY life and death mistakes happen. My surgeon's nurse (also a surgical nurse - but works strictly in the office) also said that, as we spoke late yesterday, she had " just " received the O.R. nurses " ADDENDUM " to the " nurses notes " of 3-1/2 weeks ago by FAX from the hospital. That ADDENDUM was signed and DATED YESTERDAY and it stated that the weight of the pannus (skin) was " 3 lbs. " Again, that report or " addendum " by the nurse was DATED YESTERDAY. When the hospital records supervisor called me yesterday, he said he had just " run the OR nurse down " as she had not " completed " her report and, after 3-1/2 weeks, asked her to 'remember' the weight of the pannus of my particular surgery. Incredible. So, the OR nurse amazingly " remembers " my surgery, writes an " ADDENDUM " to the official record (to include the weight of the pannus) that she " remembers " is " 3 lbs. " Liar. And this is where I'm pissed. She's covering her ass, and is now insulting my intelligence by thinking she can now make an " addendum " to the original surgery notes (where she had forgot to weigh and annotate the skin). Furthermore, we are speaking of a coverup as damage control and, what's even WORSE than simply admitting her mistake, is BREACHING PROFESSIONAL ETHICS!!! This is where I'm drawing the line. My surgeons nurse said this is TROUBLE with a capital " t. " Being an OR nurse herself, she said this is unbelieveable, and she has never seen such an addendum. An " addendum " from surgery 3-1/2 weeks ago and they expect US to believe that the nurse actually remembed that exact amount and is NOW reporting it????? Also, what really perked our attention was that the weight was NOT 3.1245 lbs, or 3.275 kg or 3.44 lbs, BUT EXACTLY " 3 lbs. " Huummmm. When my surgeons received the hospital OR nurses " addendum " late yesterday evening (by fax), they immediately went into damage control, as did I. Hospital Risk Management called today and left this message on my recorder. I'd say they are CERTAINLY dodging a bullet. Hi *****, this is *******, the Risk Manager at Alaska Regional Hospital. I’m returning your phone call from yesterday afternoon. I’m sorry I couldn’t get back with you sooner. I understand there was a problem, umm, with the, uhh, the nurse not weighing, uhhh, the tissue, the specimin tissue, and I talked to *********, ummm, he called me as well to let me know what happened as well, so, I’m so disheartened and so sorry this has happened, ummm, and I agree, We have some systems problems here and process problems with this whole thing that we need to, uuuhhh, correct. So, please give me a call so I can get more details from you. Ummm, I’m very interested in hearing about the problem and, umm, will be in and out with meetings all day but you can, you know, call me back ... Another issue is, if the INSURANCE COMPANY ever wants to challenge me for any reason (even though this was preauthorized, but just IF), i.e. cosmetic vs. medically necessary, i.e. " x " amount of pounds pulling on back, etc., I have NO DOCUMENTATION AS TO THE WEIGHT. The O.R. nurses " recollection " after 3-1/2 weeks is embarassing, to say the least. Okay - that's the story. It's now come down to professional ethics. Say what you will, but would YOU want to have future surgeries in a hospital where staff knowingly are compromising records? I certainly would not, and my insurance mandates using them as a preferred provider. It is for others, as well as myself, that I am taking on this battle. Bobbie Anchorage ********************************************************************** Date: Wed, 12 Mar 2003 22:36:13 -0000 Bobbi, unbundle thy undies! The chart at your surgeon's office has his dictated notes in it...look THERE. It is a record of everything that happened during your surgery. Your frustration is certainly heard and felt, but it feels like time to focus on simething else and move on...you have a LIFE! Get on with it! Love, Corrine *********************************** Subject: Re: SKIN WEIGHT Bobbie, Each time I asked my surgeon how much he took off he said he would tell me the next time he saw me - never happened. I was going to be checked for a staple line disruption and requested my surgical notes from the hospital. They enclosed both my bypass and PS notes so I know know. 5lbs off the belly and about 2 1/2 off of each arm. Marjie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 12, 2003 Report Share Posted March 12, 2003 WRC I can certainly understand your anger and frustration. I have read your story and can see that you have made quite an impact on this hospital. If the nurse has falsified this document, they will have to let her go. Here comes the But. But, how much damage do you want to do to everyone concerned. Most of us do the best we can. If I could get sued for my mistakes I would be in big trouble. How about you, are you mistake proof. The only true wrong here is the follow up note. I don't know how many TT this nurse has seen for an MO person. But I would guess, not too many. I can believe that she would remember. I think she made an educated guess. If you are out for blood, you can surely get it the way the courts are today. But, there goes my chances for insurance coverage for my panni removal. My 2 cents. Fay Bayuk '300/173 10/23/01 Dr. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 12, 2003 Report Share Posted March 12, 2003 WRC I can certainly understand your anger and frustration. I have read your story and can see that you have made quite an impact on this hospital. If the nurse has falsified this document, they will have to let her go. Here comes the But. But, how much damage do you want to do to everyone concerned. Most of us do the best we can. If I could get sued for my mistakes I would be in big trouble. How about you, are you mistake proof. The only true wrong here is the follow up note. I don't know how many TT this nurse has seen for an MO person. But I would guess, not too many. I can believe that she would remember. I think she made an educated guess. If you are out for blood, you can surely get it the way the courts are today. But, there goes my chances for insurance coverage for my panni removal. My 2 cents. Fay Bayuk '300/173 10/23/01 Dr. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 12, 2003 Report Share Posted March 12, 2003 In a message dated 3/13/2003 3:33:57 AM Eastern Standard Time, fbayuk@... writes: > I think she made an educated guess. If > you are out for blood, you can surely get it the way the courts are today. > But, there goes my chances for insurance coverage for my panni removal. > I agree! I CAN get sued for my mistakes, and worry about it every single day. In 25 years of practice have never been sued but the threat is there with every engagement. Have lost many nights sleep over the fact that I am a human being, therefore not infallible. A big part of this whole damn mess with insurances charging impossible premiums and denying coverage whenever possible, hospitals and doctors practicing defensively rather than from the heart is due to all parties acting as if they are estranged and working at cross purposes rather than for a common good. I KNOW the medical community must be held accountable, that their standards must be very high, but in this world, mistakes will always happen because we are human. I am so frustrated by the pervasive " lets kill 'em if we can " attitude in our society. B Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 12, 2003 Report Share Posted March 12, 2003 In a message dated 3/13/2003 3:33:57 AM Eastern Standard Time, fbayuk@... writes: > I think she made an educated guess. If > you are out for blood, you can surely get it the way the courts are today. > But, there goes my chances for insurance coverage for my panni removal. > I agree! I CAN get sued for my mistakes, and worry about it every single day. In 25 years of practice have never been sued but the threat is there with every engagement. Have lost many nights sleep over the fact that I am a human being, therefore not infallible. A big part of this whole damn mess with insurances charging impossible premiums and denying coverage whenever possible, hospitals and doctors practicing defensively rather than from the heart is due to all parties acting as if they are estranged and working at cross purposes rather than for a common good. I KNOW the medical community must be held accountable, that their standards must be very high, but in this world, mistakes will always happen because we are human. I am so frustrated by the pervasive " lets kill 'em if we can " attitude in our society. B Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 13, 2003 Report Share Posted March 13, 2003 Hi Bobbie, I would like you to know that you are right in all of this....this hospital has their rules for the doctors....and in turn the doctors has their rules for their nurses....and it is the responsibilities of these parties for all the information to turn into hospital records.... Is that not what " we " are paying for....???? When I had my TT...my doctor came in after I woke up...and told me " himself " that he had removed 15 lbs. of excess skin.....and he also did a " upper-tuck " later on down the road for me....and at this time also....when I woke up....he reported to me that he removed 8lbs.....a total of 23lbs....!!!! And when you are told " 3lbs " ...!!!!!! And weeks after the surgery.....yes, that does raise questions....???? And to be dated within days of asking NOW....??? No, they are not being " fair " with you.....and are trying to cover-up " their " mistakes..... And yes, you know that they would come after you with both barrels.....and when the odds are in your corner....from the sounds of the phone call....they are in a stir of your next move.....Go for what you deserve.....you didn't have the WLS in the beginning to later have " forgotten " parts of your journey....this is YOUR journey....YOUR story....YOUR life..... " PAID IN FULL " My thoughts......Joy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 13, 2003 Report Share Posted March 13, 2003 Hi Bobbie, I would like you to know that you are right in all of this....this hospital has their rules for the doctors....and in turn the doctors has their rules for their nurses....and it is the responsibilities of these parties for all the information to turn into hospital records.... Is that not what " we " are paying for....???? When I had my TT...my doctor came in after I woke up...and told me " himself " that he had removed 15 lbs. of excess skin.....and he also did a " upper-tuck " later on down the road for me....and at this time also....when I woke up....he reported to me that he removed 8lbs.....a total of 23lbs....!!!! And when you are told " 3lbs " ...!!!!!! And weeks after the surgery.....yes, that does raise questions....???? And to be dated within days of asking NOW....??? No, they are not being " fair " with you.....and are trying to cover-up " their " mistakes..... And yes, you know that they would come after you with both barrels.....and when the odds are in your corner....from the sounds of the phone call....they are in a stir of your next move.....Go for what you deserve.....you didn't have the WLS in the beginning to later have " forgotten " parts of your journey....this is YOUR journey....YOUR story....YOUR life..... " PAID IN FULL " My thoughts......Joy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 13, 2003 Report Share Posted March 13, 2003 With all due respect, (I understand your frustration, but c'mon) this is not a matter of malpractice or of compromising one's health. It was a simple MISTAKE, not a life threatening mistake to say the least. Give em a break....this is the exact reason that we pay so much for health care when it comes to self pay. Doctors and hospital have to face frivolous lawsuits such as this. I don't even know if you are thinking about a lawsuit, I certainly hope not, but I am sure there is some blood sucking attorney out there who would jump on this for someone not weighing a piece of tissue! I really don't mean any disrespect, but I am floored that such a big deal is being mad over this. We are all human, doctors, nurses, hospital technicians included, and mistakes happen....if it is a life threatening mistake, that is another story, but this is not. Re: SKIN WEIGHT Bobbie, Each time I asked my surgeon how much he took off he said he would tell me the next time he saw me - never happened. I was going to be checked for a staple line disruption and requested my surgical notes from the hospital. They enclosed both my bypass and PS notes so I know know. 5lbs off the belly and about 2 1/2 off of each arm. Marjie Homepage: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Graduate-OSSG Unsubscribe: mailto:Graduate-OSSG-unsubscribe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 13, 2003 Report Share Posted March 13, 2003 With all due respect, (I understand your frustration, but c'mon) this is not a matter of malpractice or of compromising one's health. It was a simple MISTAKE, not a life threatening mistake to say the least. Give em a break....this is the exact reason that we pay so much for health care when it comes to self pay. Doctors and hospital have to face frivolous lawsuits such as this. I don't even know if you are thinking about a lawsuit, I certainly hope not, but I am sure there is some blood sucking attorney out there who would jump on this for someone not weighing a piece of tissue! I really don't mean any disrespect, but I am floored that such a big deal is being mad over this. We are all human, doctors, nurses, hospital technicians included, and mistakes happen....if it is a life threatening mistake, that is another story, but this is not. Re: SKIN WEIGHT Bobbie, Each time I asked my surgeon how much he took off he said he would tell me the next time he saw me - never happened. I was going to be checked for a staple line disruption and requested my surgical notes from the hospital. They enclosed both my bypass and PS notes so I know know. 5lbs off the belly and about 2 1/2 off of each arm. Marjie Homepage: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Graduate-OSSG Unsubscribe: mailto:Graduate-OSSG-unsubscribe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 13, 2003 Report Share Posted March 13, 2003 I have to say that I am sorry that you do not know the EACT weight of your skin removal. If you wanted to know that, then you should have the information. BUT, as far as a law suit goes, don't be too sure that you have a case. You have to meet a few criteria for a law suit. One of them is that the actions caused you harm. Other then frustration, I see where no harm has happened. The second is that the harm was intentional. I am sure that there was NO intention to cause you frustration here. As for your surgeons note saying " for weight, see nurses note " . THat is a poor physicians note. THat plastic surgeon should have asked, IN THE OPERAING ROOM, how much had been removed. They should have had that information before they ever walked out of the door. So, as nice and wonderful as your plastic surgeon is, they did not follow through either. ESPECIALLY since you told them BEFORE surgery that you wanted the weight. I am most concerned for you. You are putting alot of energy into something that honestly, isn't really that important. Not that it isn't important to you, but in the over all grand scheme of things, is not going to make a bit of difference in your life. Try and find something more positive to put all of this energy into. IT will make you feel better. You've made as much of a difference in the hospital policy by raising this stink as you can. They know that you are pissed, and they know that they screwed up. And i can bet that there will be a new " policy " or " standard " written to address this. Does that mean that it won't happen agian? Nope. But, you have done your part. FInd a new cause, for your sake. Your going to give yourself an ulcer. Or a heart attack. And it's really not worth it. Oh, one other thing, as for your insurance company coming back and saying that they did not remove enough skin for this surgery, that is a very valid point. Wait and see what happens. If you have issues with the insurance, then you can go back to the hosptial and make them aware of what the error is causing. They will most likely respond to you appropriately and help with the insurance issues. > Okay guys -- we're now talking a matter of professional ethics as you will > see in my explanation below. It's NOT just a matter of skin weight > (which,yes, I wanted to know ... and yes, I paid for this surgery to have > this information as well ... and yes, my surgeon knew I wanted this > information). > > I am VERY well grounded, and thankful for my health, but for those of you who > suggest that I move on (and I respect your opinions), here's the story. > > For almost 4 weeks I've been TRYING to find out the weight of the skin I had > removed during my panniculectomy on 2/14. And now, from all appearances, > someone's not taking personal accountability for their mistake. Yes, to err > is human, but in the medical world, there is a higher standard. > > To backup, I personally spoke to doctor first post-op visit, day 3 post-op > about the weight of my pannus. She didn't remember. Said it would be in > O.R. notes. > > I waited to Day 6, 2nd post-op visit. Inquired with doctor, said she still > didn't have O.R. notes (nurses notes), so she couldn't say. Said she'd let > me know. > > The next week, I called hospital and faxed them a records release for O.R. > surgeon's / nurses notes. > > Received surgeons notes but NOT the O.R. nurses notes from the hospital. I > requested the O.R. nurses notes for 2-1/2 weeks. Never got them. Surgeon > requested O.R. nurses notes for 2-1/2 weeks, never got them. I finally > called hospital Risk Management on Monday afternoon to get things moving. > Boy, did they. > > I read surgeons O.R. notes. There was NO MENTION of skin removal weight. In > the surgeons notes, where standard info line says " skin weight, " doctors > dictation says " see nurses notes. " > > I QUOTE - DOCTORS SURGICAL REPORT SAYS: > > " The abdominal skin and fat that was excised was weighed and was then > discarded (see nursing notes for the exact weight). " > > This is in the doctor's surgical notes, and I have them. This was PROTOCOL > set by my surgeon. > > Bottom line, O.R. Nurse did NOT follow doctor's orders. After speaking with > my surgeon's office and her nurse, the nurse reiterated surgeon's notes DID > REQUIRE the O.R. nurse to write down the weight and the surgeon knew (before > my surgery) that I wanted that information. > > So, from her surgical notes above, the surgeon is in the clear and she DID > put this in her notes (before my inquiry, mind you) AND the surgeon put her > protocol to the nurses there to weight the specimin. > > (The OR nurses WERE NOT the surgeon's nurses, but employees of the hospital.) > > Now, the surgeons nurse agree's there's a BIG problem and that more than > likely, Hospital Risk Management will be involved. The nurse mentioned how > this is lawsuit potential (that the hospital didn't do their job), that the > surgeon set the protocol and the hospital surgical staff did NOT follow > through and do their job. > > Now, I explained I'm not a litigious person, but dammit, this surgery was a > lot of money, and if the shoe were on the other foot, by God, that hospital > would be coming after ME with both barrells. Also, another point is that I > paid for a service (marked up 1000%) and didn't get it. Furthermore, this is > how MORE COSTLY life and death mistakes happen. > > My surgeon's nurse (also a surgical nurse - but works strictly in the office) > also said that, as we spoke late yesterday, she had " just " received the O.R. > nurses " ADDENDUM " to the " nurses notes " of 3-1/2 weeks ago by FAX from the > hospital. That ADDENDUM was signed and DATED YESTERDAY and it stated that > the weight of the pannus (skin) was " 3 lbs. " > > Again, that report or " addendum " by the nurse was DATED YESTERDAY. When the > hospital records supervisor called me yesterday, he said he had just " run the > OR nurse down " as she had not " completed " her report and, after 3- 1/2 weeks, > asked her to 'remember' the weight of the pannus of my particular surgery. > Incredible. So, the OR nurse amazingly " remembers " my surgery, writes an > " ADDENDUM " to the official record (to include the weight of the pannus) that > she " remembers " is " 3 lbs. " > > Liar. And this is where I'm pissed. She's covering her ass, and is now > insulting my intelligence by thinking she can now make an " addendum " to the > original surgery notes (where she had forgot to weigh and annotate the skin). > > > Furthermore, we are speaking of a coverup as damage control and, what's even > WORSE than simply admitting her mistake, is BREACHING PROFESSIONAL ETHICS!!! > > This is where I'm drawing the line. > > My surgeons nurse said this is TROUBLE with a capital " t. " Being an OR nurse > herself, she said this is unbelieveable, and she has never seen such an > addendum. An " addendum " from surgery 3-1/2 weeks ago and they expect US to > believe that the nurse actually remembed that exact amount and is NOW > reporting it????? Also, what really perked our attention was that the weight > was NOT 3.1245 lbs, or 3.275 kg or 3.44 lbs, BUT EXACTLY " 3 lbs. " Huummmm. > > When my surgeons received the hospital OR nurses " addendum " late yesterday > evening (by fax), they immediately went into damage control, as did I. > > Hospital Risk Management called today and left this message on my recorder. > I'd say they are CERTAINLY dodging a bullet. > > Hi *****, this is *******, the Risk Manager at Alaska Regional Hospital. I’m > returning your phone call from yesterday afternoon. I’m sorry I couldn’t > get back with you sooner. I understand there was a problem, umm, with the, > uhh, the nurse not weighing, uhhh, the tissue, the specimin tissue, and I > talked to *********, ummm, he called me as well to let me know what happened > as well, so, I’m so disheartened and so sorry this has happened, ummm, and I > agree, We have some systems problems here and process problems with this > whole thing that we need to, uuuhhh, correct. So, please give me a call so I > can get more details from you. Ummm, I’m very interested in hearing about > the problem and, umm, will be in and out with meetings all day but you can, > you know, call me back ... > > Another issue is, if the INSURANCE COMPANY ever wants to challenge me for any > reason (even though this was preauthorized, but just IF), i.e. cosmetic vs. > medically necessary, i.e. " x " amount of pounds pulling on back, etc., I have > NO DOCUMENTATION AS TO THE WEIGHT. The O.R. nurses " recollection " after > 3-1/2 weeks is embarassing, to say the least. > > Okay - that's the story. It's now come down to professional ethics. Say > what you will, but would YOU want to have future surgeries in a hospital > where staff knowingly are compromising records? I certainly would not, and > my insurance mandates using them as a preferred provider. > > It is for others, as well as myself, that I am taking on this battle. > > Bobbie > Anchorage > > ********************************************************************* * > Date: Wed, 12 Mar 2003 22:36:13 -0000 > From: " Corrine Grantwit " <GRANTWIT@M...> > > Bobbi, unbundle thy undies! The chart at your surgeon's office has > his dictated notes in it...look THERE. It is a record of everything > that happened during your surgery. Your frustration is certainly > heard and felt, but it feels like time to focus on simething else > and move on...you have a LIFE! Get on with it! Love, Corrine > > *********************************** > > From: " Marjie Wassermann " <jonnysgirl81@m...> > Subject: Re: SKIN WEIGHT > > Bobbie, > > Each time I asked my surgeon how much he took off he said he would tell me > the next time he saw me - never happened. > > I was going to be checked for a staple line disruption and requested my > surgical notes from the hospital. They enclosed both my bypass and PS notes > so I know know. 5lbs off the belly and about 2 1/2 off of each arm. > > Marjie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 13, 2003 Report Share Posted March 13, 2003 I have to say that I am sorry that you do not know the EACT weight of your skin removal. If you wanted to know that, then you should have the information. BUT, as far as a law suit goes, don't be too sure that you have a case. You have to meet a few criteria for a law suit. One of them is that the actions caused you harm. Other then frustration, I see where no harm has happened. The second is that the harm was intentional. I am sure that there was NO intention to cause you frustration here. As for your surgeons note saying " for weight, see nurses note " . THat is a poor physicians note. THat plastic surgeon should have asked, IN THE OPERAING ROOM, how much had been removed. They should have had that information before they ever walked out of the door. So, as nice and wonderful as your plastic surgeon is, they did not follow through either. ESPECIALLY since you told them BEFORE surgery that you wanted the weight. I am most concerned for you. You are putting alot of energy into something that honestly, isn't really that important. Not that it isn't important to you, but in the over all grand scheme of things, is not going to make a bit of difference in your life. Try and find something more positive to put all of this energy into. IT will make you feel better. You've made as much of a difference in the hospital policy by raising this stink as you can. They know that you are pissed, and they know that they screwed up. And i can bet that there will be a new " policy " or " standard " written to address this. Does that mean that it won't happen agian? Nope. But, you have done your part. FInd a new cause, for your sake. Your going to give yourself an ulcer. Or a heart attack. And it's really not worth it. Oh, one other thing, as for your insurance company coming back and saying that they did not remove enough skin for this surgery, that is a very valid point. Wait and see what happens. If you have issues with the insurance, then you can go back to the hosptial and make them aware of what the error is causing. They will most likely respond to you appropriately and help with the insurance issues. > Okay guys -- we're now talking a matter of professional ethics as you will > see in my explanation below. It's NOT just a matter of skin weight > (which,yes, I wanted to know ... and yes, I paid for this surgery to have > this information as well ... and yes, my surgeon knew I wanted this > information). > > I am VERY well grounded, and thankful for my health, but for those of you who > suggest that I move on (and I respect your opinions), here's the story. > > For almost 4 weeks I've been TRYING to find out the weight of the skin I had > removed during my panniculectomy on 2/14. And now, from all appearances, > someone's not taking personal accountability for their mistake. Yes, to err > is human, but in the medical world, there is a higher standard. > > To backup, I personally spoke to doctor first post-op visit, day 3 post-op > about the weight of my pannus. She didn't remember. Said it would be in > O.R. notes. > > I waited to Day 6, 2nd post-op visit. Inquired with doctor, said she still > didn't have O.R. notes (nurses notes), so she couldn't say. Said she'd let > me know. > > The next week, I called hospital and faxed them a records release for O.R. > surgeon's / nurses notes. > > Received surgeons notes but NOT the O.R. nurses notes from the hospital. I > requested the O.R. nurses notes for 2-1/2 weeks. Never got them. Surgeon > requested O.R. nurses notes for 2-1/2 weeks, never got them. I finally > called hospital Risk Management on Monday afternoon to get things moving. > Boy, did they. > > I read surgeons O.R. notes. There was NO MENTION of skin removal weight. In > the surgeons notes, where standard info line says " skin weight, " doctors > dictation says " see nurses notes. " > > I QUOTE - DOCTORS SURGICAL REPORT SAYS: > > " The abdominal skin and fat that was excised was weighed and was then > discarded (see nursing notes for the exact weight). " > > This is in the doctor's surgical notes, and I have them. This was PROTOCOL > set by my surgeon. > > Bottom line, O.R. Nurse did NOT follow doctor's orders. After speaking with > my surgeon's office and her nurse, the nurse reiterated surgeon's notes DID > REQUIRE the O.R. nurse to write down the weight and the surgeon knew (before > my surgery) that I wanted that information. > > So, from her surgical notes above, the surgeon is in the clear and she DID > put this in her notes (before my inquiry, mind you) AND the surgeon put her > protocol to the nurses there to weight the specimin. > > (The OR nurses WERE NOT the surgeon's nurses, but employees of the hospital.) > > Now, the surgeons nurse agree's there's a BIG problem and that more than > likely, Hospital Risk Management will be involved. The nurse mentioned how > this is lawsuit potential (that the hospital didn't do their job), that the > surgeon set the protocol and the hospital surgical staff did NOT follow > through and do their job. > > Now, I explained I'm not a litigious person, but dammit, this surgery was a > lot of money, and if the shoe were on the other foot, by God, that hospital > would be coming after ME with both barrells. Also, another point is that I > paid for a service (marked up 1000%) and didn't get it. Furthermore, this is > how MORE COSTLY life and death mistakes happen. > > My surgeon's nurse (also a surgical nurse - but works strictly in the office) > also said that, as we spoke late yesterday, she had " just " received the O.R. > nurses " ADDENDUM " to the " nurses notes " of 3-1/2 weeks ago by FAX from the > hospital. That ADDENDUM was signed and DATED YESTERDAY and it stated that > the weight of the pannus (skin) was " 3 lbs. " > > Again, that report or " addendum " by the nurse was DATED YESTERDAY. When the > hospital records supervisor called me yesterday, he said he had just " run the > OR nurse down " as she had not " completed " her report and, after 3- 1/2 weeks, > asked her to 'remember' the weight of the pannus of my particular surgery. > Incredible. So, the OR nurse amazingly " remembers " my surgery, writes an > " ADDENDUM " to the official record (to include the weight of the pannus) that > she " remembers " is " 3 lbs. " > > Liar. And this is where I'm pissed. She's covering her ass, and is now > insulting my intelligence by thinking she can now make an " addendum " to the > original surgery notes (where she had forgot to weigh and annotate the skin). > > > Furthermore, we are speaking of a coverup as damage control and, what's even > WORSE than simply admitting her mistake, is BREACHING PROFESSIONAL ETHICS!!! > > This is where I'm drawing the line. > > My surgeons nurse said this is TROUBLE with a capital " t. " Being an OR nurse > herself, she said this is unbelieveable, and she has never seen such an > addendum. An " addendum " from surgery 3-1/2 weeks ago and they expect US to > believe that the nurse actually remembed that exact amount and is NOW > reporting it????? Also, what really perked our attention was that the weight > was NOT 3.1245 lbs, or 3.275 kg or 3.44 lbs, BUT EXACTLY " 3 lbs. " Huummmm. > > When my surgeons received the hospital OR nurses " addendum " late yesterday > evening (by fax), they immediately went into damage control, as did I. > > Hospital Risk Management called today and left this message on my recorder. > I'd say they are CERTAINLY dodging a bullet. > > Hi *****, this is *******, the Risk Manager at Alaska Regional Hospital. I’m > returning your phone call from yesterday afternoon. I’m sorry I couldn’t > get back with you sooner. I understand there was a problem, umm, with the, > uhh, the nurse not weighing, uhhh, the tissue, the specimin tissue, and I > talked to *********, ummm, he called me as well to let me know what happened > as well, so, I’m so disheartened and so sorry this has happened, ummm, and I > agree, We have some systems problems here and process problems with this > whole thing that we need to, uuuhhh, correct. So, please give me a call so I > can get more details from you. Ummm, I’m very interested in hearing about > the problem and, umm, will be in and out with meetings all day but you can, > you know, call me back ... > > Another issue is, if the INSURANCE COMPANY ever wants to challenge me for any > reason (even though this was preauthorized, but just IF), i.e. cosmetic vs. > medically necessary, i.e. " x " amount of pounds pulling on back, etc., I have > NO DOCUMENTATION AS TO THE WEIGHT. The O.R. nurses " recollection " after > 3-1/2 weeks is embarassing, to say the least. > > Okay - that's the story. It's now come down to professional ethics. Say > what you will, but would YOU want to have future surgeries in a hospital > where staff knowingly are compromising records? I certainly would not, and > my insurance mandates using them as a preferred provider. > > It is for others, as well as myself, that I am taking on this battle. > > Bobbie > Anchorage > > ********************************************************************* * > Date: Wed, 12 Mar 2003 22:36:13 -0000 > From: " Corrine Grantwit " <GRANTWIT@M...> > > Bobbi, unbundle thy undies! The chart at your surgeon's office has > his dictated notes in it...look THERE. It is a record of everything > that happened during your surgery. Your frustration is certainly > heard and felt, but it feels like time to focus on simething else > and move on...you have a LIFE! Get on with it! Love, Corrine > > *********************************** > > From: " Marjie Wassermann " <jonnysgirl81@m...> > Subject: Re: SKIN WEIGHT > > Bobbie, > > Each time I asked my surgeon how much he took off he said he would tell me > the next time he saw me - never happened. > > I was going to be checked for a staple line disruption and requested my > surgical notes from the hospital. They enclosed both my bypass and PS notes > so I know know. 5lbs off the belly and about 2 1/2 off of each arm. > > Marjie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 13, 2003 Report Share Posted March 13, 2003 Bobbie, we've emailed privately, and I'll say it again on-list...if this blunder by the hospital (and OR nurse) prevents a real tragedy at some point in the future (like that terrible mistake at Duke with the little girl who had a transplant with a wrong blood type),it is oh so worth it. It's the simple little stupid mistakes which are the most frustrating, preventable and can be the most life-threatening. The hopsital obviously really need this wake-up call, and you may have saved another life by rocking the boat. JMHO, in NJ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 13, 2003 Report Share Posted March 13, 2003 Bobbie, we've emailed privately, and I'll say it again on-list...if this blunder by the hospital (and OR nurse) prevents a real tragedy at some point in the future (like that terrible mistake at Duke with the little girl who had a transplant with a wrong blood type),it is oh so worth it. It's the simple little stupid mistakes which are the most frustrating, preventable and can be the most life-threatening. The hopsital obviously really need this wake-up call, and you may have saved another life by rocking the boat. JMHO, in NJ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 13, 2003 Report Share Posted March 13, 2003 I'd like to clarify my response...I do believe that Bobbie has a right to cause a fuss at the hospital, but I don't believe a lawsuit is in order, UNLESS her insurance company refuses to pay due to the lack of stated tissue weight. I would think, if that was the case, that the hospital would cover those charges in order to prevent further publicity. Again, JMHO, in NJ ************************ > With all due respect, (I understand your frustration, but c'mon) this is not a matter of malpractice or of compromising one's health. It was a simple MISTAKE, not a life threatening mistake to say the least. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 13, 2003 Report Share Posted March 13, 2003 I'd like to clarify my response...I do believe that Bobbie has a right to cause a fuss at the hospital, but I don't believe a lawsuit is in order, UNLESS her insurance company refuses to pay due to the lack of stated tissue weight. I would think, if that was the case, that the hospital would cover those charges in order to prevent further publicity. Again, JMHO, in NJ ************************ > With all due respect, (I understand your frustration, but c'mon) this is not a matter of malpractice or of compromising one's health. It was a simple MISTAKE, not a life threatening mistake to say the least. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 13, 2003 Report Share Posted March 13, 2003 Fay - As I have stated many times, I am NOT a litigious individual, however, I take exception to your statement (and, am somewhat offended) by " how much damage " I " want to do to everyone concerned. " With all due respect, this is an incredible statement. How much damage I want to do? Huuummm. Fay, I am hopeful that you understand that the medical profession is held to a MUCH HIGHER STANDARD than you or I. Again, yes, we are ALL fallible, we ALL make mistakes. However, if NO ONE speaks up, a more serious mistake can happen to YOU or YOUR LOVED ONE next time. It all boils down to standard of care as well as professional ethics. I have had 2 previous standard of care issues with this same hospital (which I did not go into). This is strike 3, and my expectations for this facility have been greatly reduced (from my past experiences) from expecting to receive adequate care, to just being thankful that I come home alive. This may be a dramatic statement, but what a sad commentary when a patient should have to overlook good and decent before/during/and aftercare, and have the sole expectation of simply " coming home alive. " At this point, the old adage of " all's well that ends well " does not cut it for me. My previous negative experiences (at this same hospital) occurred during a c-section (10 years ago) AND my WLS, almost 2 years ago. I remained grounded, after these issues, and " overlooked " standard of care oversights/errors connected with these surgeries. One was with O.R. staff allowing my epidural to expire PRIOR to the surgeon cutting into me during a c-section, allowing me to FEEL EVERYTHING and resulting in me going into immediate shock from the pain of the c-section incision and the tearing of the tissue into the uterus. Despite my crys for help, despite all monitors indicating I was in distress from pain, the surgeon could not do anything but continue, nor anesthetize me UNTIL the baby's head came out. This was a serious issue, and I was almost lost from shock. I had asked about the IV as I was rolled into the OR for the c-section (it was NOT an emergency situation). I saw it was extremely low. By the time they cut, it had run out. My pleas' to the OR staff nurses was disregarded and that O.R. " oversight " resulted in me being placed me in grave danger. I never pursued this, I counted my blessings, went on with my life and my records indicate the truth of the matter. I will not go into the second incident that occurred with my nursing care during my WLS. I now am drawing the line on this one. This is strike three for this facility, that I am forced to go to as my PPO. This is not MY fight. This is not a money-making endeavor on my part. This is a fight for ALL who go AFTER me, or God forbid, for me, should I need the services of this same hospital again. Furthermore, a timely response to my records request, a timely response to my concerns and a timely acknowledgment by the nurse that there had been a mistake would have made all the difference to me. But the fact that all parties involved (except my surgeons office not associated with the hospital) tried to sweep with under the carpet SCREAMS something very loudly to me. I am hopeful, by way of my concerns, this hospital would practice more due diligence in the future. . Thank you for your thoughts. Bobbie Anchorage **************************************** <<Here comes the But. But, how much damage do you want to do to everyone concerned. Most of us do the best we can. If I could get sued for my mistakes I would be in big trouble. How about you, are you mistake proof. >> My 2 cents. Fay Bayuk '300/173 10/23/01 Dr. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 13, 2003 Report Share Posted March 13, 2003 Fay - As I have stated many times, I am NOT a litigious individual, however, I take exception to your statement (and, am somewhat offended) by " how much damage " I " want to do to everyone concerned. " With all due respect, this is an incredible statement. How much damage I want to do? Huuummm. Fay, I am hopeful that you understand that the medical profession is held to a MUCH HIGHER STANDARD than you or I. Again, yes, we are ALL fallible, we ALL make mistakes. However, if NO ONE speaks up, a more serious mistake can happen to YOU or YOUR LOVED ONE next time. It all boils down to standard of care as well as professional ethics. I have had 2 previous standard of care issues with this same hospital (which I did not go into). This is strike 3, and my expectations for this facility have been greatly reduced (from my past experiences) from expecting to receive adequate care, to just being thankful that I come home alive. This may be a dramatic statement, but what a sad commentary when a patient should have to overlook good and decent before/during/and aftercare, and have the sole expectation of simply " coming home alive. " At this point, the old adage of " all's well that ends well " does not cut it for me. My previous negative experiences (at this same hospital) occurred during a c-section (10 years ago) AND my WLS, almost 2 years ago. I remained grounded, after these issues, and " overlooked " standard of care oversights/errors connected with these surgeries. One was with O.R. staff allowing my epidural to expire PRIOR to the surgeon cutting into me during a c-section, allowing me to FEEL EVERYTHING and resulting in me going into immediate shock from the pain of the c-section incision and the tearing of the tissue into the uterus. Despite my crys for help, despite all monitors indicating I was in distress from pain, the surgeon could not do anything but continue, nor anesthetize me UNTIL the baby's head came out. This was a serious issue, and I was almost lost from shock. I had asked about the IV as I was rolled into the OR for the c-section (it was NOT an emergency situation). I saw it was extremely low. By the time they cut, it had run out. My pleas' to the OR staff nurses was disregarded and that O.R. " oversight " resulted in me being placed me in grave danger. I never pursued this, I counted my blessings, went on with my life and my records indicate the truth of the matter. I will not go into the second incident that occurred with my nursing care during my WLS. I now am drawing the line on this one. This is strike three for this facility, that I am forced to go to as my PPO. This is not MY fight. This is not a money-making endeavor on my part. This is a fight for ALL who go AFTER me, or God forbid, for me, should I need the services of this same hospital again. Furthermore, a timely response to my records request, a timely response to my concerns and a timely acknowledgment by the nurse that there had been a mistake would have made all the difference to me. But the fact that all parties involved (except my surgeons office not associated with the hospital) tried to sweep with under the carpet SCREAMS something very loudly to me. I am hopeful, by way of my concerns, this hospital would practice more due diligence in the future. . Thank you for your thoughts. Bobbie Anchorage **************************************** <<Here comes the But. But, how much damage do you want to do to everyone concerned. Most of us do the best we can. If I could get sued for my mistakes I would be in big trouble. How about you, are you mistake proof. >> My 2 cents. Fay Bayuk '300/173 10/23/01 Dr. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 13, 2003 Report Share Posted March 13, 2003 Thank you for " getting it, " Joy. Your thoughtful reply is appreciated. Bobbie Anchorage Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 13, 2003 Report Share Posted March 13, 2003 Thank you for " getting it, " Joy. Your thoughtful reply is appreciated. Bobbie Anchorage Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 13, 2003 Report Share Posted March 13, 2003 I think that everyones " opinion " is of the individual....for the one making the opinion... And from the first of this concern....not once did I read that Bobbie was talking of " malpractice " .... " sueing " ....she just was making a statement of negligence....and in reflect to her WLS journey this is an important part of her " story " .... Unless everyone else is reading " between " the lines.....this just goes to show how one reads what " they " want to read....and right away in the medical field....seems to be the first word that all sees....MALPRACTICE.... And you are right....this added stress is not healthy for " anyone " ...and I also do hope that she has rocked the waves for " future " negligence....this time it was a minor mistake....but what about the next time....???? This is where one needs to make sure that their voice is heard....so that there may NOT be a next time...... Unless we walk in her shoes....and feel her pain of " not knowing " she has the right to voice herself also...and her concerns....Good luck Bobbie.... Boogs..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 13, 2003 Report Share Posted March 13, 2003 I think that everyones " opinion " is of the individual....for the one making the opinion... And from the first of this concern....not once did I read that Bobbie was talking of " malpractice " .... " sueing " ....she just was making a statement of negligence....and in reflect to her WLS journey this is an important part of her " story " .... Unless everyone else is reading " between " the lines.....this just goes to show how one reads what " they " want to read....and right away in the medical field....seems to be the first word that all sees....MALPRACTICE.... And you are right....this added stress is not healthy for " anyone " ...and I also do hope that she has rocked the waves for " future " negligence....this time it was a minor mistake....but what about the next time....???? This is where one needs to make sure that their voice is heard....so that there may NOT be a next time...... Unless we walk in her shoes....and feel her pain of " not knowing " she has the right to voice herself also...and her concerns....Good luck Bobbie.... Boogs..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 13, 2003 Report Share Posted March 13, 2003 I am so frustrated by the pervasive " lets kill 'em if we can " > attitude in our society. And then there are times that this attitude " isn't " taken. The night my Mom dies we had her taken to the ER because we thought she had a horrible flu and her system was " taxed " due to chemo and radiation. While being given an x-ray she was left alone in the x-ray room on a cold hard table for 15 minutes........during that time (she couldn't lay flat due to her esophagus) but they made her anyway. When someone finally remembered that she was in there (they say at least 15 minutes)she had vomited and aspirated on it. When they found her she was unconscious...they tried to intibate her....but it was too late. She was dead 4 hours later!! She had just found out 2 weeks prior that her cancer was in remission and they had estimated that she would live at least another 7 to 8 years. We were devastated and shocked.....couldn't figure out what had gone wrong. Her 6 kids decided against an autopsy (she would have been really against it) and the hospital didn't know what happened but kept trying to convince us that it was a blood clot to the lung. Several days later the nurse from her oncologist office called and read the ER notes to us! The hospital NEVER mentioned the being left alone and forgotten! The nurse was all but encouraging us to " sue. " We all thought about it and prayed on and decided against it. Sure, most of us could have REALLY used the $$ and man were we PISSED!!!!!! But we decided that: 1) it couldn't/wouldn't bring her back......she had worked in the medical field her whole life.......she knew that doc's and nurses and technicians were not infallible. 2) and I had always felt as though the Lord had dealt graciously with her death........she wasn't afraid to die.......she was just afraid of " how " .........she knew ultimately with esophageal cancer she would die a long, painful suffering death! This spared her of that. Am I saying we made the 'right' decision......I don't know any better now than I did that night!! And I am NOT saying that anyone should or shouldn't ever sue........not at all. I have always struggled with the issue that yes, there are " accidents " , but then again there is always " neglect " ....I wonder if we did the right thing in the fact that this technician was never held accountable for any wrong doing.......did this leave him/her available to do it to someone else. Would it have made a difference to us if we had found out that he/she had done this sort of thing before?? I guess what I am trying to say is that all circumstances are different. We cannot say that anyone's circumstances are any less valid to sue over than anothers. Most often than not we don't know enough of the details to make that kind of judgment! For instance years ago when Mc's was sued for the hot coffee......people thought it was ridiculous.....yet most never heard the facts that Mc's had been warned repeatedly to lower the temp on their coffee...that this was NOT the first law-suit! That the coffee was SO hot it actually REMOVED the skin from the ladies thighs......she had to endure months of skin graphs and therapies!! But anyway........now that I have gotten out of hand....I just wanted to say that there is always the other side of the coin........... P. Re: Re: SKIN WEIGHT - Lengthy > In a message dated 3/13/2003 3:33:57 AM Eastern Standard Time, fbayuk@... > writes: > > I think she made an educated guess. If > > you are out for blood, you can surely get it the way the courts are today. > > But, there goes my chances for insurance coverage for my panni removal. > > > I agree! I CAN get sued for my mistakes, and worry about it every single > day. In 25 years of practice have never been sued but the threat is there > with every engagement. Have lost many nights sleep over the fact that I am a > human being, therefore not infallible. > A big part of this whole damn mess with insurances charging impossible > premiums and denying coverage whenever possible, hospitals and doctors > practicing defensively rather than from the heart is due to all parties > acting as if they are estranged and working at cross purposes rather than for > a common good. > I KNOW the medical community must be held accountable, that their standards > must be very high, but in this world, mistakes will always happen because we > are human. > B > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 13, 2003 Report Share Posted March 13, 2003 I am so frustrated by the pervasive " lets kill 'em if we can " > attitude in our society. And then there are times that this attitude " isn't " taken. The night my Mom dies we had her taken to the ER because we thought she had a horrible flu and her system was " taxed " due to chemo and radiation. While being given an x-ray she was left alone in the x-ray room on a cold hard table for 15 minutes........during that time (she couldn't lay flat due to her esophagus) but they made her anyway. When someone finally remembered that she was in there (they say at least 15 minutes)she had vomited and aspirated on it. When they found her she was unconscious...they tried to intibate her....but it was too late. She was dead 4 hours later!! She had just found out 2 weeks prior that her cancer was in remission and they had estimated that she would live at least another 7 to 8 years. We were devastated and shocked.....couldn't figure out what had gone wrong. Her 6 kids decided against an autopsy (she would have been really against it) and the hospital didn't know what happened but kept trying to convince us that it was a blood clot to the lung. Several days later the nurse from her oncologist office called and read the ER notes to us! The hospital NEVER mentioned the being left alone and forgotten! The nurse was all but encouraging us to " sue. " We all thought about it and prayed on and decided against it. Sure, most of us could have REALLY used the $$ and man were we PISSED!!!!!! But we decided that: 1) it couldn't/wouldn't bring her back......she had worked in the medical field her whole life.......she knew that doc's and nurses and technicians were not infallible. 2) and I had always felt as though the Lord had dealt graciously with her death........she wasn't afraid to die.......she was just afraid of " how " .........she knew ultimately with esophageal cancer she would die a long, painful suffering death! This spared her of that. Am I saying we made the 'right' decision......I don't know any better now than I did that night!! And I am NOT saying that anyone should or shouldn't ever sue........not at all. I have always struggled with the issue that yes, there are " accidents " , but then again there is always " neglect " ....I wonder if we did the right thing in the fact that this technician was never held accountable for any wrong doing.......did this leave him/her available to do it to someone else. Would it have made a difference to us if we had found out that he/she had done this sort of thing before?? I guess what I am trying to say is that all circumstances are different. We cannot say that anyone's circumstances are any less valid to sue over than anothers. Most often than not we don't know enough of the details to make that kind of judgment! For instance years ago when Mc's was sued for the hot coffee......people thought it was ridiculous.....yet most never heard the facts that Mc's had been warned repeatedly to lower the temp on their coffee...that this was NOT the first law-suit! That the coffee was SO hot it actually REMOVED the skin from the ladies thighs......she had to endure months of skin graphs and therapies!! But anyway........now that I have gotten out of hand....I just wanted to say that there is always the other side of the coin........... P. Re: Re: SKIN WEIGHT - Lengthy > In a message dated 3/13/2003 3:33:57 AM Eastern Standard Time, fbayuk@... > writes: > > I think she made an educated guess. If > > you are out for blood, you can surely get it the way the courts are today. > > But, there goes my chances for insurance coverage for my panni removal. > > > I agree! I CAN get sued for my mistakes, and worry about it every single > day. In 25 years of practice have never been sued but the threat is there > with every engagement. Have lost many nights sleep over the fact that I am a > human being, therefore not infallible. > A big part of this whole damn mess with insurances charging impossible > premiums and denying coverage whenever possible, hospitals and doctors > practicing defensively rather than from the heart is due to all parties > acting as if they are estranged and working at cross purposes rather than for > a common good. > I KNOW the medical community must be held accountable, that their standards > must be very high, but in this world, mistakes will always happen because we > are human. > B > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 13, 2003 Report Share Posted March 13, 2003 Nan you and your family are truly kind people. You make this all worthwhile. Your mom would have been proud of you. Fay Bayuk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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