Re: Information about retinoids.

[Guest guest]

I'm not offended or mad at all, Ian. I just don't know you, and your

post suggested that I did. While I may not automatically extend

respect to you as an online colleague, but I certainly respect your

presence in this group, as I do every member.

All this information on retinaldehyde is new to me. In your first

reference, I don't see how we can leap from retinoids inhibiting VEGF

in a petrie dish to inhibiting rosacea's neoangiogenesis (if that

theory is even correct). But the third reference is an interesting

study. I don't know that the results are that significant, or how

they verified the erythema was vascular and not inflammatory in

origin; plus, there is no control group, so we don't know what a 15%

drop in erythema after 5 months means in a larger context. Still,

here's the full abstrast, for those not familiar with the study:

-=-=-=

Dermatology 1999;199 Suppl 1:53-6

Retinaldehyde alleviates rosacea.

Vienne MP, Ochando N, Borrel MT, Gall Y, Lauze C, Dupuy P.

Department of Clinical Research, Pierre Fabre Research Institute,

Toulouse, France.

BACKGROUND: Anecdotal observations suggest that retinoic acid may be

effective in mild rosacea. AIM: Our aim was to investigate, by an

exploratory clinical and instrumental study, the effects of a topical

formulation with the retinoic acid precursor retinaldehyde, in

patients with vascular signs of facial rosacea. METHODS: Female

patients were treated with a 0.05% retinaldehyde cream that was

applied once daily for 6 months. Clinical assessments of persistent

erythema and telangiectasia were performed every month, using a 4-

point severity score (absent to severe). The clinical response for

each parameter was defined as a decrease of at least 1 grade in the

severity score. In addition, erythema was further evaluated by

measurement of the a* parameter, using a spectrophotometer on

lesional and nonlesional areas. RESULTS: A total of 23 women

comprised the study population. At baseline, 10 patients had diffuse

erythema, 3 patients had isolated telangiectasia and 10 patients had

both. During retinaldehyde treatment, a clinical response was

revealed in about 75% of the patients with erythema, after 5 months

(p < 0.05). Similarly, isolated telangiectasia responded to

retinaldehyde, although to a lesser extent and after a longer period

of treatment (46% responders after 6 months, nonsignificant). Using

the spectrophotometer, the a* parameter diminished in patients with

erythema by about 15%, after 2 months of treatment (p = 0.001).

CONCLUSION: This study indicates that retinaldehyde has beneficial

effects on the vascular component of rosacea.

-=-=-=

If we believe the following two studies, retinaldehyde is well

tolerated:

-=-=-=-=

Dermatology 1999;199 Suppl 1:61-3

Tolerance of topical retinaldehyde in humans.

Sachsenberg-Studer EM.

Department of Dermatology, J.-W. Goethe University Hospital,

furt, Germany.

BACKGROUND: Retinaldehyde (RAL) has been used as a topical agent in

many countries since 1994. AIM: To review current data on the

tolerance of retinaldehyde and to report the results of a long-term

pilot study. METHODS: Data from published and on-file studies have

been compiled. Forty-five patients who had applied RAL on the face

for 12-89 months were specifically examined for side-effects.

RESULTS: Studies in humans demonstrated an excellent tolerance of

topical RAL on human skin. It was much better tolerated than retinoic

acid and could be used even on sensitive facial skin. It does not

have phototoxic or photo-allergic properties. No side-effects were

associated with long-term use. CONCLUSION: Current data indicate a

good topical tolerance of RAL in humans.

PMID: 10473964 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

-=-=-=

Dermatology 1999;199 Suppl 1:57-60

Tolerance profile of retinol, retinaldehyde and retinoic acid under

maximized and long-term clinical conditions.

Fluhr JW, Vienne MP, Lauze C, Dupuy P, Gehring W, Gloor M.

Department of Dermatology, Klinikum Karlsruhe, Germany.

JFluhr@...

BACKGROUND: Topical retinoic acid (RA) causes irritation of the skin.

To prevent this side effect, natural precursors of RA have been

proposed. The aim of the present study was to compare the local

tolerance profiles of retinol (ROL), retinaldehyde (RAL) and RA.

METHODS: ROL, RAL and RA were studied using repeated insult patch

tests for 14 days (n = 6). Similarly, RAL and RA were assessed in

long-term clinical use for 44 weeks (n = 355). Clinical scoring on

irritation, measurement of transepidermal water loss (barrier

function) and laser Doppler blood flow perfusion units (irritation)

were performed. RESULTS: Under maximized conditions, an equally low

irritation potential for ROL and RAL and a more pronounced irritant

effect with RA could be demonstrated clinically (p < 0.05 in the

intergroup analysis). Furthermore, RAL and RA induced more scaling

than ROL (p < 0.05), and ROL and RA tended to induce more

burning/pruritus than RAL (nonsignificant). The TEWL values were low

with ROL and high with RAL and RA (nonsignificant, intergroup

analysis). The laser Doppler measurements confirmed pro-irritating

effects of RA and the nonirritating effects of ROL and RAL (p = 0.

001, intergroup analysis). The long-term clinical study showed that

the study population developed a high frequency of erythema (44% of

the population), scaling (35%) and burning/pruritus (29%) with RA in

the first 4 weeks of treatment, whereas these 3 parameters were

significantly less frequent with RAL (p < 0.0001 in the intergroup

analysis). CONCLUSION: The natural retinoids ROL and RAL do have a

good tolerance profile, in contrast with the irritating potential of

RA.

-=-=-==-

So the suggestion is that retinaldehyde impacts on the vascular

features of rosacea. Is there any clinical study more current than

this 1999 study? (If not, I wonder what happened.)

I can't easily find the brand name for retinaldehyde. Anyone know?

Marjorie

Marjorie Lazoff, MD

> Hello everybody:

> Hope things are doing well, I will like to apologyse to Dr Majorie

if

> i ofend her in some way i can honestly say that it is not my

> intention, this is a group, a team that shares the same condition

and

> thats enough to look at it in a possitive way, we all want to feel

> better and thats all there is to it even for the next generations.

> Just dont get mad Dr Majorie in all games the mad is the one who

> looses, i remember that the first thing you learn in medical school

> is to respect your collegues, if you dont have anything possitive

to

> say about a partner dont lie but keep it quiet, not only for

ethics

> just because we are humans and we will make a mistake sometime, I

> find it dissapointing that Dr Majorie with all the respect she

> deserves since i think she is wise,caring,bright, and experienced,

> puts in doubt my credibility when we have had contact one or two

> times only, thats not acceptable in anyway.

> well here are some of the references from the articules you were

> asking me for.

> INHIBITORY EFFECT OF RETINOIDS ON THE VASCULAR ENDOTHELIAL GROWTH

> FACTOR PRODUCED BY HUMAN KERATINOCYTES.

> LACHGAR-DERMATOLOGY 01-JANUARY-1999.

> FROM NIH-NLM MEDLINE.

> NLM CITATION IP

> 1047 3956 (PUBMED)

> 99 40 640(MEDLINE)

> PUBLICATION:JOURNAL ARTICLE

> AUTHORS:lACHGAR S,CHAVERON M,GALLY.

> CONCLUSSION:VEGF EXPRESSION BY KERATINOCYTES ON CONTACT WITH

> RETINOIDS AT DIFERENT CONCENTRATIONS STRONGLY REDUCED SKIN CAPACITY

> TO PERFORM NEOANGIOGENESIS IN ROSACEA AND OTHER DERMATOSiS.

>

> 2) RETINOIDS-WICH INDICATIONS WILL BENEFIT IN THE NEAR FUTURE.

> ZOBULISCC-SKIN PHARMACOLOGY AND SKIN APPLIED PHYSIOLOGY-2001.

> FROM NLH MEDLINE-21470564.

> AFFILIATION:DEPARTMENT OF DERMATOLOGY, UNIVERSITY MEDICAL CENTER,

> BENJAMIN FRANKLIN, BERLIN GERMANY.

> REFERENCES 90.

> TOPICAL TRETINOIN,RETINALDDEHYDE,ADAPELEN,ISOTRETINOIN,BEXOROTENE

ARE

> USED IN MANY DERMATOSIS AND HAD BEEN SUCCESFULLY USED IN ROSACEA

AND

> ACNEIFORM DISORDERS.

>

> 3)RETINALDHEYDE ALLEVIATES ROSACEA.

> VIENNE MP-DERMATOLOGY-01-01-99.

> FROM NLH MEDLINE.

> NLH CITATION ID:99-406446.

> PUBLICATION TYPE:CLINICAL TRIAL, CONTROLLED CLINICAL TRIAL.

> JOURNAL ARTICULE:

> CONCLUSION: RETINOIC ACID HAS BENEFICAL EFFECTS ON THE VASCULAR

> COMPONENT OF ROSACEA.

>

> 4)REPAIR UVA ELASTIC AND COLLAGEN FIBER DAMAGED WITH 0.05%

> RETINALDEHYDE CREAM.

> FROM NLH MEDLINE.

> JOURNAL ARTICULE.

> AUTHOR AFFILIATION: DEPARTMENT OF PATHOLOGY

> HOSPITLE-SALPETIERE, PARIS FRANCE.

> AUTHORS:BIOSNIC S,LECHARPEITIER

> CONCLUCION:IT HAS BEEN SHOWN THAT RETINALDEHYDE AND TRETINOIN SHARE

> THE SAME PROPERTIES IN THEIR BIOLOGICAL AND BENEFICAL EFFECTS BY

> INDUCING SPECIALLY ON DERMAL CONECTIVE TISSUE SIGNIFICANT REPAIR

OF

> ELASTIC AND CONECTIVE FIBERS INDUCED BY SOLAR(UVA) EXPOSURE, IS

> CLASSIC THAT A PATHOLOGY REPORT OF A BIOPSY OF ROSACEA SKIN SHOWS

> SOLAR ELASTOSIS, THIS STUDY INDICATES THAT RETINOIDS ARE BENEFICAL.

> iT LOOKS TO ME THAT CORTICOIDS AND RETINOIDS ACT DIFERENT

> CORTICOSTEROIDS THIN, ATROPHY THE SKIN, RETINOIDS THICK, REFILL

WITH

> COLLAGEN AND ELASTIN, I GUESS THE TRICK WILL BE IN FINDING A

RETINOID

> THAT WOULD BE BETTER TOLERATED FOR US.

>

> There are many related articules in mdconsult, ovid, etc i am just

> very tiered hope this will be of help for you and all.

> Dr Ian Alarcon.

[Guest guest]

I'm not offended or mad at all, Ian. I just don't know you, and your

post suggested that I did. While I may not automatically extend

respect to you as an online colleague, but I certainly respect your

presence in this group, as I do every member.

All this information on retinaldehyde is new to me. In your first

reference, I don't see how we can leap from retinoids inhibiting VEGF

in a petrie dish to inhibiting rosacea's neoangiogenesis (if that

theory is even correct). But the third reference is an interesting

study. I don't know that the results are that significant, or how

they verified the erythema was vascular and not inflammatory in

origin; plus, there is no control group, so we don't know what a 15%

drop in erythema after 5 months means in a larger context. Still,

here's the full abstrast, for those not familiar with the study:

-=-=-=

Dermatology 1999;199 Suppl 1:53-6

Retinaldehyde alleviates rosacea.

Vienne MP, Ochando N, Borrel MT, Gall Y, Lauze C, Dupuy P.

Department of Clinical Research, Pierre Fabre Research Institute,

Toulouse, France.

BACKGROUND: Anecdotal observations suggest that retinoic acid may be

effective in mild rosacea. AIM: Our aim was to investigate, by an

exploratory clinical and instrumental study, the effects of a topical

formulation with the retinoic acid precursor retinaldehyde, in

patients with vascular signs of facial rosacea. METHODS: Female

patients were treated with a 0.05% retinaldehyde cream that was

applied once daily for 6 months. Clinical assessments of persistent

erythema and telangiectasia were performed every month, using a 4-

point severity score (absent to severe). The clinical response for

each parameter was defined as a decrease of at least 1 grade in the

severity score. In addition, erythema was further evaluated by

measurement of the a* parameter, using a spectrophotometer on

lesional and nonlesional areas. RESULTS: A total of 23 women

comprised the study population. At baseline, 10 patients had diffuse

erythema, 3 patients had isolated telangiectasia and 10 patients had

both. During retinaldehyde treatment, a clinical response was

revealed in about 75% of the patients with erythema, after 5 months

(p < 0.05). Similarly, isolated telangiectasia responded to

retinaldehyde, although to a lesser extent and after a longer period

of treatment (46% responders after 6 months, nonsignificant). Using

the spectrophotometer, the a* parameter diminished in patients with

erythema by about 15%, after 2 months of treatment (p = 0.001).

CONCLUSION: This study indicates that retinaldehyde has beneficial

effects on the vascular component of rosacea.

-=-=-=

If we believe the following two studies, retinaldehyde is well

tolerated:

-=-=-=-=

Dermatology 1999;199 Suppl 1:61-3

Tolerance of topical retinaldehyde in humans.

Sachsenberg-Studer EM.

Department of Dermatology, J.-W. Goethe University Hospital,

furt, Germany.

BACKGROUND: Retinaldehyde (RAL) has been used as a topical agent in

many countries since 1994. AIM: To review current data on the

tolerance of retinaldehyde and to report the results of a long-term

pilot study. METHODS: Data from published and on-file studies have

been compiled. Forty-five patients who had applied RAL on the face

for 12-89 months were specifically examined for side-effects.

RESULTS: Studies in humans demonstrated an excellent tolerance of

topical RAL on human skin. It was much better tolerated than retinoic

acid and could be used even on sensitive facial skin. It does not

have phototoxic or photo-allergic properties. No side-effects were

associated with long-term use. CONCLUSION: Current data indicate a

good topical tolerance of RAL in humans.

PMID: 10473964 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

-=-=-=

Dermatology 1999;199 Suppl 1:57-60

Tolerance profile of retinol, retinaldehyde and retinoic acid under

maximized and long-term clinical conditions.

Fluhr JW, Vienne MP, Lauze C, Dupuy P, Gehring W, Gloor M.

Department of Dermatology, Klinikum Karlsruhe, Germany.

JFluhr@...

BACKGROUND: Topical retinoic acid (RA) causes irritation of the skin.

To prevent this side effect, natural precursors of RA have been

proposed. The aim of the present study was to compare the local

tolerance profiles of retinol (ROL), retinaldehyde (RAL) and RA.

METHODS: ROL, RAL and RA were studied using repeated insult patch

tests for 14 days (n = 6). Similarly, RAL and RA were assessed in

long-term clinical use for 44 weeks (n = 355). Clinical scoring on

irritation, measurement of transepidermal water loss (barrier

function) and laser Doppler blood flow perfusion units (irritation)

were performed. RESULTS: Under maximized conditions, an equally low

irritation potential for ROL and RAL and a more pronounced irritant

effect with RA could be demonstrated clinically (p < 0.05 in the

intergroup analysis). Furthermore, RAL and RA induced more scaling

than ROL (p < 0.05), and ROL and RA tended to induce more

burning/pruritus than RAL (nonsignificant). The TEWL values were low

with ROL and high with RAL and RA (nonsignificant, intergroup

analysis). The laser Doppler measurements confirmed pro-irritating

effects of RA and the nonirritating effects of ROL and RAL (p = 0.

001, intergroup analysis). The long-term clinical study showed that

the study population developed a high frequency of erythema (44% of

the population), scaling (35%) and burning/pruritus (29%) with RA in

the first 4 weeks of treatment, whereas these 3 parameters were

significantly less frequent with RAL (p < 0.0001 in the intergroup

analysis). CONCLUSION: The natural retinoids ROL and RAL do have a

good tolerance profile, in contrast with the irritating potential of

RA.

-=-=-==-

So the suggestion is that retinaldehyde impacts on the vascular

features of rosacea. Is there any clinical study more current than

this 1999 study? (If not, I wonder what happened.)

I can't easily find the brand name for retinaldehyde. Anyone know?

Marjorie

Marjorie Lazoff, MD

> Hello everybody:

> Hope things are doing well, I will like to apologyse to Dr Majorie

if

> i ofend her in some way i can honestly say that it is not my

> intention, this is a group, a team that shares the same condition

and

> thats enough to look at it in a possitive way, we all want to feel

> better and thats all there is to it even for the next generations.

> Just dont get mad Dr Majorie in all games the mad is the one who

> looses, i remember that the first thing you learn in medical school

> is to respect your collegues, if you dont have anything possitive

to

> say about a partner dont lie but keep it quiet, not only for

ethics

> just because we are humans and we will make a mistake sometime, I

> find it dissapointing that Dr Majorie with all the respect she

> deserves since i think she is wise,caring,bright, and experienced,

> puts in doubt my credibility when we have had contact one or two

> times only, thats not acceptable in anyway.

> well here are some of the references from the articules you were

> asking me for.

> INHIBITORY EFFECT OF RETINOIDS ON THE VASCULAR ENDOTHELIAL GROWTH

> FACTOR PRODUCED BY HUMAN KERATINOCYTES.

> LACHGAR-DERMATOLOGY 01-JANUARY-1999.

> FROM NIH-NLM MEDLINE.

> NLM CITATION IP

> 1047 3956 (PUBMED)

> 99 40 640(MEDLINE)

> PUBLICATION:JOURNAL ARTICLE

> AUTHORS:lACHGAR S,CHAVERON M,GALLY.

> CONCLUSSION:VEGF EXPRESSION BY KERATINOCYTES ON CONTACT WITH

> RETINOIDS AT DIFERENT CONCENTRATIONS STRONGLY REDUCED SKIN CAPACITY

> TO PERFORM NEOANGIOGENESIS IN ROSACEA AND OTHER DERMATOSiS.

>

> 2) RETINOIDS-WICH INDICATIONS WILL BENEFIT IN THE NEAR FUTURE.

> ZOBULISCC-SKIN PHARMACOLOGY AND SKIN APPLIED PHYSIOLOGY-2001.

> FROM NLH MEDLINE-21470564.

> AFFILIATION:DEPARTMENT OF DERMATOLOGY, UNIVERSITY MEDICAL CENTER,

> BENJAMIN FRANKLIN, BERLIN GERMANY.

> REFERENCES 90.

> TOPICAL TRETINOIN,RETINALDDEHYDE,ADAPELEN,ISOTRETINOIN,BEXOROTENE

ARE

> USED IN MANY DERMATOSIS AND HAD BEEN SUCCESFULLY USED IN ROSACEA

AND

> ACNEIFORM DISORDERS.

>

> 3)RETINALDHEYDE ALLEVIATES ROSACEA.

> VIENNE MP-DERMATOLOGY-01-01-99.

> FROM NLH MEDLINE.

> NLH CITATION ID:99-406446.

> PUBLICATION TYPE:CLINICAL TRIAL, CONTROLLED CLINICAL TRIAL.

> JOURNAL ARTICULE:

> CONCLUSION: RETINOIC ACID HAS BENEFICAL EFFECTS ON THE VASCULAR

> COMPONENT OF ROSACEA.

>

> 4)REPAIR UVA ELASTIC AND COLLAGEN FIBER DAMAGED WITH 0.05%

> RETINALDEHYDE CREAM.

> FROM NLH MEDLINE.

> JOURNAL ARTICULE.

> AUTHOR AFFILIATION: DEPARTMENT OF PATHOLOGY

> HOSPITLE-SALPETIERE, PARIS FRANCE.

> AUTHORS:BIOSNIC S,LECHARPEITIER

> CONCLUCION:IT HAS BEEN SHOWN THAT RETINALDEHYDE AND TRETINOIN SHARE

> THE SAME PROPERTIES IN THEIR BIOLOGICAL AND BENEFICAL EFFECTS BY

> INDUCING SPECIALLY ON DERMAL CONECTIVE TISSUE SIGNIFICANT REPAIR

OF

> ELASTIC AND CONECTIVE FIBERS INDUCED BY SOLAR(UVA) EXPOSURE, IS

> CLASSIC THAT A PATHOLOGY REPORT OF A BIOPSY OF ROSACEA SKIN SHOWS

> SOLAR ELASTOSIS, THIS STUDY INDICATES THAT RETINOIDS ARE BENEFICAL.

> iT LOOKS TO ME THAT CORTICOIDS AND RETINOIDS ACT DIFERENT

> CORTICOSTEROIDS THIN, ATROPHY THE SKIN, RETINOIDS THICK, REFILL

WITH

> COLLAGEN AND ELASTIN, I GUESS THE TRICK WILL BE IN FINDING A

RETINOID

> THAT WOULD BE BETTER TOLERATED FOR US.

>

> There are many related articules in mdconsult, ovid, etc i am just

> very tiered hope this will be of help for you and all.

> Dr Ian Alarcon.

[Guest guest]

Marjorie,

Actually, in Albert Kligman, M.D.'s, patent for retinoids (see link:

http://www.pharmcast.com/Patents/Yr2001/May2001/050801/6228887_Retinoi

ds050801.htm ) he says that briefly describes what retinoids can do

for photodamaged skin and those with rosacea:

" The treatment achieves rapid amelioration of skin disorders such as

photodamaged skin, hyperpigmentation, rosacea, premalignant cancers

including actinic keratoses, wrinkles, superficial scarring,

epidermal atrophy and atypia, and keratosis pilaris, by daily or

every other day application for about one to two months. Thereafter,

the high strength applications may be tapered off, and the treated

skin maintained with more conventional lower concentration

compositions.... "

" After completion of the treatment of photoaging according to the

method of this invention, the improvement in skin condition and

appearance may be maintained by use of conventional skin treatment

protocols, e.g., treatment with low strength (0.05%) tretinoin

emollient creams, or other retinoid compositions, such as retinol or

isotretinoin formulations.

The present invention is not only useful for treating individuals

with photodamaged or photoaged skin, but also may be used with

individuals who have other skin disorders including rosacea,

hyperpigmentation (melasma), premalignant skin cancers (including

actinic keratoses), wrinkles, superficial scarring, epidermal atrophy

and/or atypia, and keratosis pilaris. "

I wouldn't use any of the retinoids myself to relieve my rosacea

symptoms because they irritate the heck out of my skin.

Take care,

Matija

> > Hello everybody:

> > Hope things are doing well, I will like to apologyse to Dr

Majorie

> if

> > i ofend her in some way i can honestly say that it is not my

> > intention, this is a group, a team that shares the same condition

> and

> > thats enough to look at it in a possitive way, we all want to

feel

> > better and thats all there is to it even for the next generations.

> > Just dont get mad Dr Majorie in all games the mad is the one who

> > looses, i remember that the first thing you learn in medical

school

> > is to respect your collegues, if you dont have anything possitive

> to

> > say about a partner dont lie but keep it quiet, not only for

> ethics

> > just because we are humans and we will make a mistake sometime, I

> > find it dissapointing that Dr Majorie with all the respect she

> > deserves since i think she is wise,caring,bright, and

experienced,

> > puts in doubt my credibility when we have had contact one or two

> > times only, thats not acceptable in anyway.

> > well here are some of the references from the articules you were

> > asking me for.

> > INHIBITORY EFFECT OF RETINOIDS ON THE VASCULAR ENDOTHELIAL

GROWTH

> > FACTOR PRODUCED BY HUMAN KERATINOCYTES.

> > LACHGAR-DERMATOLOGY 01-JANUARY-1999.

> > FROM NIH-NLM MEDLINE.

> > NLM CITATION IP

> > 1047 3956 (PUBMED)

> > 99 40 640(MEDLINE)

> > PUBLICATION:JOURNAL ARTICLE

> > AUTHORS:lACHGAR S,CHAVERON M,GALLY.

> > CONCLUSSION:VEGF EXPRESSION BY KERATINOCYTES ON CONTACT WITH

> > RETINOIDS AT DIFERENT CONCENTRATIONS STRONGLY REDUCED SKIN

CAPACITY

> > TO PERFORM NEOANGIOGENESIS IN ROSACEA AND OTHER DERMATOSiS.

> >

> > 2) RETINOIDS-WICH INDICATIONS WILL BENEFIT IN THE NEAR FUTURE.

> > ZOBULISCC-SKIN PHARMACOLOGY AND SKIN APPLIED PHYSIOLOGY-2001.

> > FROM NLH MEDLINE-21470564.

> > AFFILIATION:DEPARTMENT OF DERMATOLOGY, UNIVERSITY MEDICAL CENTER,

> > BENJAMIN FRANKLIN, BERLIN GERMANY.

> > REFERENCES 90.

> > TOPICAL TRETINOIN,RETINALDDEHYDE,ADAPELEN,ISOTRETINOIN,BEXOROTENE

> ARE

> > USED IN MANY DERMATOSIS AND HAD BEEN SUCCESFULLY USED IN ROSACEA

> AND

> > ACNEIFORM DISORDERS.

> >

> > 3)RETINALDHEYDE ALLEVIATES ROSACEA.

> > VIENNE MP-DERMATOLOGY-01-01-99.

> > FROM NLH MEDLINE.

> > NLH CITATION ID:99-406446.

> > PUBLICATION TYPE:CLINICAL TRIAL, CONTROLLED CLINICAL TRIAL.

> > JOURNAL ARTICULE:

> > CONCLUSION: RETINOIC ACID HAS BENEFICAL EFFECTS ON THE VASCULAR

> > COMPONENT OF ROSACEA.

> >

> > 4)REPAIR UVA ELASTIC AND COLLAGEN FIBER DAMAGED WITH 0.05%

> > RETINALDEHYDE CREAM.

> > FROM NLH MEDLINE.

> > JOURNAL ARTICULE.

> > AUTHOR AFFILIATION: DEPARTMENT OF PATHOLOGY

> > HOSPITLE-SALPETIERE, PARIS FRANCE.

> > AUTHORS:BIOSNIC S,LECHARPEITIER

> > CONCLUCION:IT HAS BEEN SHOWN THAT RETINALDEHYDE AND TRETINOIN

SHARE

> > THE SAME PROPERTIES IN THEIR BIOLOGICAL AND BENEFICAL EFFECTS BY

> > INDUCING SPECIALLY ON DERMAL CONECTIVE TISSUE SIGNIFICANT

REPAIR

> OF

> > ELASTIC AND CONECTIVE FIBERS INDUCED BY SOLAR(UVA) EXPOSURE, IS

> > CLASSIC THAT A PATHOLOGY REPORT OF A BIOPSY OF ROSACEA SKIN SHOWS

> > SOLAR ELASTOSIS, THIS STUDY INDICATES THAT RETINOIDS ARE

BENEFICAL.

> > iT LOOKS TO ME THAT CORTICOIDS AND RETINOIDS ACT DIFERENT

> > CORTICOSTEROIDS THIN, ATROPHY THE SKIN, RETINOIDS THICK, REFILL

> WITH

> > COLLAGEN AND ELASTIN, I GUESS THE TRICK WILL BE IN FINDING A

> RETINOID

> > THAT WOULD BE BETTER TOLERATED FOR US.

> >

> > There are many related articules in mdconsult, ovid, etc i am

just

> > very tiered hope this will be of help for you and all.

> > Dr Ian Alarcon.

[Guest guest]

Marjorie,

Actually, in Albert Kligman, M.D.'s, patent for retinoids (see link:

http://www.pharmcast.com/Patents/Yr2001/May2001/050801/6228887_Retinoi

ds050801.htm ) he says that briefly describes what retinoids can do

for photodamaged skin and those with rosacea:

" The treatment achieves rapid amelioration of skin disorders such as

photodamaged skin, hyperpigmentation, rosacea, premalignant cancers

including actinic keratoses, wrinkles, superficial scarring,

epidermal atrophy and atypia, and keratosis pilaris, by daily or

every other day application for about one to two months. Thereafter,

the high strength applications may be tapered off, and the treated

skin maintained with more conventional lower concentration

compositions.... "

" After completion of the treatment of photoaging according to the

method of this invention, the improvement in skin condition and

appearance may be maintained by use of conventional skin treatment

protocols, e.g., treatment with low strength (0.05%) tretinoin

emollient creams, or other retinoid compositions, such as retinol or

isotretinoin formulations.

The present invention is not only useful for treating individuals

with photodamaged or photoaged skin, but also may be used with

individuals who have other skin disorders including rosacea,

hyperpigmentation (melasma), premalignant skin cancers (including

actinic keratoses), wrinkles, superficial scarring, epidermal atrophy

and/or atypia, and keratosis pilaris. "

I wouldn't use any of the retinoids myself to relieve my rosacea

symptoms because they irritate the heck out of my skin.

Take care,

Matija

> > Hello everybody:

> > Hope things are doing well, I will like to apologyse to Dr

Majorie

> if

> > i ofend her in some way i can honestly say that it is not my

> > intention, this is a group, a team that shares the same condition

> and

> > thats enough to look at it in a possitive way, we all want to

feel

> > better and thats all there is to it even for the next generations.

> > Just dont get mad Dr Majorie in all games the mad is the one who

> > looses, i remember that the first thing you learn in medical

school

> > is to respect your collegues, if you dont have anything possitive

> to

> > say about a partner dont lie but keep it quiet, not only for

> ethics

> > just because we are humans and we will make a mistake sometime, I

> > find it dissapointing that Dr Majorie with all the respect she

> > deserves since i think she is wise,caring,bright, and

experienced,

> > puts in doubt my credibility when we have had contact one or two

> > times only, thats not acceptable in anyway.

> > well here are some of the references from the articules you were

> > asking me for.

> > INHIBITORY EFFECT OF RETINOIDS ON THE VASCULAR ENDOTHELIAL

GROWTH

> > FACTOR PRODUCED BY HUMAN KERATINOCYTES.

> > LACHGAR-DERMATOLOGY 01-JANUARY-1999.

> > FROM NIH-NLM MEDLINE.

> > NLM CITATION IP

> > 1047 3956 (PUBMED)

> > 99 40 640(MEDLINE)

> > PUBLICATION:JOURNAL ARTICLE

> > AUTHORS:lACHGAR S,CHAVERON M,GALLY.

> > CONCLUSSION:VEGF EXPRESSION BY KERATINOCYTES ON CONTACT WITH

> > RETINOIDS AT DIFERENT CONCENTRATIONS STRONGLY REDUCED SKIN

CAPACITY

> > TO PERFORM NEOANGIOGENESIS IN ROSACEA AND OTHER DERMATOSiS.

> >

> > 2) RETINOIDS-WICH INDICATIONS WILL BENEFIT IN THE NEAR FUTURE.

> > ZOBULISCC-SKIN PHARMACOLOGY AND SKIN APPLIED PHYSIOLOGY-2001.

> > FROM NLH MEDLINE-21470564.

> > AFFILIATION:DEPARTMENT OF DERMATOLOGY, UNIVERSITY MEDICAL CENTER,

> > BENJAMIN FRANKLIN, BERLIN GERMANY.

> > REFERENCES 90.

> > TOPICAL TRETINOIN,RETINALDDEHYDE,ADAPELEN,ISOTRETINOIN,BEXOROTENE

> ARE

> > USED IN MANY DERMATOSIS AND HAD BEEN SUCCESFULLY USED IN ROSACEA

> AND

> > ACNEIFORM DISORDERS.

> >

> > 3)RETINALDHEYDE ALLEVIATES ROSACEA.

> > VIENNE MP-DERMATOLOGY-01-01-99.

> > FROM NLH MEDLINE.

> > NLH CITATION ID:99-406446.

> > PUBLICATION TYPE:CLINICAL TRIAL, CONTROLLED CLINICAL TRIAL.

> > JOURNAL ARTICULE:

> > CONCLUSION: RETINOIC ACID HAS BENEFICAL EFFECTS ON THE VASCULAR

> > COMPONENT OF ROSACEA.

> >

> > 4)REPAIR UVA ELASTIC AND COLLAGEN FIBER DAMAGED WITH 0.05%

> > RETINALDEHYDE CREAM.

> > FROM NLH MEDLINE.

> > JOURNAL ARTICULE.

> > AUTHOR AFFILIATION: DEPARTMENT OF PATHOLOGY

> > HOSPITLE-SALPETIERE, PARIS FRANCE.

> > AUTHORS:BIOSNIC S,LECHARPEITIER

> > CONCLUCION:IT HAS BEEN SHOWN THAT RETINALDEHYDE AND TRETINOIN

SHARE

> > THE SAME PROPERTIES IN THEIR BIOLOGICAL AND BENEFICAL EFFECTS BY

> > INDUCING SPECIALLY ON DERMAL CONECTIVE TISSUE SIGNIFICANT

REPAIR

> OF

> > ELASTIC AND CONECTIVE FIBERS INDUCED BY SOLAR(UVA) EXPOSURE, IS

> > CLASSIC THAT A PATHOLOGY REPORT OF A BIOPSY OF ROSACEA SKIN SHOWS

> > SOLAR ELASTOSIS, THIS STUDY INDICATES THAT RETINOIDS ARE

BENEFICAL.

> > iT LOOKS TO ME THAT CORTICOIDS AND RETINOIDS ACT DIFERENT

> > CORTICOSTEROIDS THIN, ATROPHY THE SKIN, RETINOIDS THICK, REFILL

> WITH

> > COLLAGEN AND ELASTIN, I GUESS THE TRICK WILL BE IN FINDING A

> RETINOID

> > THAT WOULD BE BETTER TOLERATED FOR US.

> >

> > There are many related articules in mdconsult, ovid, etc i am

just

> > very tiered hope this will be of help for you and all.

> > Dr Ian Alarcon.