Mandy

[Guest guest]

I would love to meet you as well I am 5 minutes from Joan we have lived in

this mountain most are

lifes Joan actually went to elementary school here. Both are children where

born and raised here.

We love it winters are cold for Calif. But summers are heaven. This morning

I left a foot of snow at my house 4000 feet drove 9 miles to work no snow at

all. Just beautiful montains clean air and the feel that god is close.

However I think the deer are a pain in the butt Joan !! We would have great

visit !!! Robin O - Calif 211-130 - ????? Dec 5 2002 - Dr Higa Fresno

_________________________________________________________________

Expand your wine savvy — and get some great new recipes — at MSN Wine.

http://wine.msn.com

[Guest guest]

I would love to meet you as well I am 5 minutes from Joan we have lived in

this mountain most are

lifes Joan actually went to elementary school here. Both are children where

born and raised here.

We love it winters are cold for Calif. But summers are heaven. This morning

I left a foot of snow at my house 4000 feet drove 9 miles to work no snow at

all. Just beautiful montains clean air and the feel that god is close.

However I think the deer are a pain in the butt Joan !! We would have great

visit !!! Robin O - Calif 211-130 - ????? Dec 5 2002 - Dr Higa Fresno

_________________________________________________________________

Expand your wine savvy — and get some great new recipes — at MSN Wine.

http://wine.msn.com

[Guest guest]

Mandy, thank you for all the information. The only thing I researched was

specifically related to high quality versus low quality for protein only,

and really didn't get a creditable answer. I read every bit of the

information, and it was great. I like many of the sources, including Adele

and Fit for Life. I was particularly interested in gelatin's

relationship to Diabetes, digestion, and digestive disorders. Also it's

properties in relationship to fast weight loss. Very good information, and

a big thank you for your research.

I intend on continuing it twice a day in my hot drinks, a quantity that the

research considered beneficial.

As it's not my only source of protein, I think it complements the meat &

cheese proteins.

Thank you so much.

Joan

LAP RNY 11/18/03

Dr. Higa, Fresno, CA

282pre-op/275surg/235/140

jclinton@...

[Guest guest]

Mandy, thank you for all the information. The only thing I researched was

specifically related to high quality versus low quality for protein only,

and really didn't get a creditable answer. I read every bit of the

information, and it was great. I like many of the sources, including Adele

and Fit for Life. I was particularly interested in gelatin's

relationship to Diabetes, digestion, and digestive disorders. Also it's

properties in relationship to fast weight loss. Very good information, and

a big thank you for your research.

I intend on continuing it twice a day in my hot drinks, a quantity that the

research considered beneficial.

As it's not my only source of protein, I think it complements the meat &

cheese proteins.

Thank you so much.

Joan

LAP RNY 11/18/03

Dr. Higa, Fresno, CA

282pre-op/275surg/235/140

jclinton@...

[Guest guest]

Dear all,

Mandy was NOT banned for speaking her mind or due to the topic of the

gelatin thread. She was banned for attacking someone (Lori, ONE of the

several moderators of this group) viciously and maliciously. THAT can't

be tolerated. All Lori did was privately ask Mandy to take her topic

private.

Writing someone privately to ask them to tone down, or stop posting

something inappropriate, or some other behavior that is problematic, is

perfectly acceptable and done all the time (I moderate 3 groups and

several of my friends are moderators as well. None of us (me or my

friends) moderate this group in any way, we are in New Jersey and

moderate out local groups, plus I am moderator of a group started in

Oregon, and another one in California) and in checking with my moderator

friends, I have learned that this is done all the time.

Anyway, Mandy took Lori's simple PRIVATE request, and, rather than

answer her privately where no conflict would have been witnessed in the

group and they could have dialoged about it, she brought it public.

Now, bringing it public would not have been so bad, but doing it

viciously and maliciously was what caused the problem.

We are free to say anything we want here. You can see that by the hot

feelings this banning has created. No one is being censored or asked to

stop. The group is minorly moderated and only for spam and personal

attacks, as far as I can tell.

I have to let you know that doing this kind of job (moderator) in a

group with almost 2,000 members, is no easy task. Lori and the other

moderators should be commended, not abused.

The reason Mandy was asked to take the conversation off list was due to

the ongoing, lengthy, verbose, research that she was posting, one after

the other, when it was of interest to only a handful of people. She was

not told not to discuss the topic, but rather, to address it to the few

of you who expressed an interest in it.

If you think about it, our surgeons, cross the board, have expressed the

absolute need for protein and fluids. I have polled over 200 people in

the past three weeks (since the thread started) and have not found one

person among them (my surgeons included) who have heard that gelatin is

a good source of protein for us. In fact, the research I have done in

the past week due to the prevalence of the topic, has shown me that

gelatin is NOT good source of protein for us. Yes, it's good for bones,

etc., due to the collagen, but the message that was starting to come

across in the postings when someone said she would not be trying the

gelatin, was that she was making a mistake. This was Mandy's opinion,

no one else's, and she was trying to convince this woman of the error of

her ways. That's when we had the deluge of gelatin research hitting the

board.

So, from what I can see, yes, a few people were interested in the topic,

but not so many that it had to be the ongoing theme of the month.

For Mandy to have reacted so violently to a simple suggestion of taking

the topic private, was just plain wrong. There is no way you can

convince me otherwise. This group was formed by Di and Sue as a

mechanism to help people who were new to the surgery, exploring their

options, and learning about the surgery, to have a place to go and ask

their questions and get help and support. People who stay post-op and

offer support are always welcome because their advice and information

from 'living it' are definitely invaluable. However, again, vicious and

malicious attacks, no matter how angry someone makes you, are not

acceptable, no matter who they come from.

Sorry if you disagree. I liked Mandy too, but I would have banned her

also if I was in a moderator position on this group. I don't accept

unacceptable behavior from anyone. At times, like in any family, there

will be disagreements. If you disagree with someone, do you attack them

or do you just express your disagreement in a civilized manner? Think

about that before giving Lori any more of a hard time about this. It's

all about attitude and Mandy's, when someone disagreed with her, was not

acceptable.

That's all I have to say on the subject.

live each day like it's your last... love like you've never been hurt...

Deb in Hazlet, NJ

" Debbie Dancer "

distal rny

September 3, 2002

386/212/165

BMI 60/31/24

-174

-100 "

Angel to Bill, Debbie, Ilene, Roy, and Ro

[Guest guest]

Dear all,

Mandy was NOT banned for speaking her mind or due to the topic of the

gelatin thread. She was banned for attacking someone (Lori, ONE of the

several moderators of this group) viciously and maliciously. THAT can't

be tolerated. All Lori did was privately ask Mandy to take her topic

private.

Writing someone privately to ask them to tone down, or stop posting

something inappropriate, or some other behavior that is problematic, is

perfectly acceptable and done all the time (I moderate 3 groups and

several of my friends are moderators as well. None of us (me or my

friends) moderate this group in any way, we are in New Jersey and

moderate out local groups, plus I am moderator of a group started in

Oregon, and another one in California) and in checking with my moderator

friends, I have learned that this is done all the time.

Anyway, Mandy took Lori's simple PRIVATE request, and, rather than

answer her privately where no conflict would have been witnessed in the

group and they could have dialoged about it, she brought it public.

Now, bringing it public would not have been so bad, but doing it

viciously and maliciously was what caused the problem.

We are free to say anything we want here. You can see that by the hot

feelings this banning has created. No one is being censored or asked to

stop. The group is minorly moderated and only for spam and personal

attacks, as far as I can tell.

I have to let you know that doing this kind of job (moderator) in a

group with almost 2,000 members, is no easy task. Lori and the other

moderators should be commended, not abused.

The reason Mandy was asked to take the conversation off list was due to

the ongoing, lengthy, verbose, research that she was posting, one after

the other, when it was of interest to only a handful of people. She was

not told not to discuss the topic, but rather, to address it to the few

of you who expressed an interest in it.

If you think about it, our surgeons, cross the board, have expressed the

absolute need for protein and fluids. I have polled over 200 people in

the past three weeks (since the thread started) and have not found one

person among them (my surgeons included) who have heard that gelatin is

a good source of protein for us. In fact, the research I have done in

the past week due to the prevalence of the topic, has shown me that

gelatin is NOT good source of protein for us. Yes, it's good for bones,

etc., due to the collagen, but the message that was starting to come

across in the postings when someone said she would not be trying the

gelatin, was that she was making a mistake. This was Mandy's opinion,

no one else's, and she was trying to convince this woman of the error of

her ways. That's when we had the deluge of gelatin research hitting the

board.

So, from what I can see, yes, a few people were interested in the topic,

but not so many that it had to be the ongoing theme of the month.

For Mandy to have reacted so violently to a simple suggestion of taking

the topic private, was just plain wrong. There is no way you can

convince me otherwise. This group was formed by Di and Sue as a

mechanism to help people who were new to the surgery, exploring their

options, and learning about the surgery, to have a place to go and ask

their questions and get help and support. People who stay post-op and

offer support are always welcome because their advice and information

from 'living it' are definitely invaluable. However, again, vicious and

malicious attacks, no matter how angry someone makes you, are not

acceptable, no matter who they come from.

Sorry if you disagree. I liked Mandy too, but I would have banned her

also if I was in a moderator position on this group. I don't accept

unacceptable behavior from anyone. At times, like in any family, there

will be disagreements. If you disagree with someone, do you attack them

or do you just express your disagreement in a civilized manner? Think

about that before giving Lori any more of a hard time about this. It's

all about attitude and Mandy's, when someone disagreed with her, was not

acceptable.

That's all I have to say on the subject.

live each day like it's your last... love like you've never been hurt...

Deb in Hazlet, NJ

" Debbie Dancer "

distal rny

September 3, 2002

386/212/165

BMI 60/31/24

-174

-100 "

Angel to Bill, Debbie, Ilene, Roy, and Ro