Guest guest Posted October 29, 2002 Report Share Posted October 29, 2002 Greetings Bill! I wish I had answers for this. Going from wake to sleep often triggers interrupted breathing, anyway. Even in healthy people. With this type of disorder it can be amplified. I understand your frustrations and fears. Some days I dread sleep. Almost always when my symptoms are worse, as this problem seems to be magnified then. As a result, my sleep patterns are very poor, as I often wait until VERY tired before sleeping. I would rather sleep soundly for a short period of time, than put up with that wake-sleep barrier !!!! As the symptoms decrease, so do my problems with sleep. I wish my sleep was more regular, but I do what seems to help. Even eight years ago my sleep study found events of central sleep apnea. I suspect it is more prominent now. Unless it becomes very troubling, I will not have further sleep studies. But, a question: Are you using a BiPAP unit? I had serious problems with the constant pressure of CPAP. Switching to BiPAP decreased the number of arousals (moving from deeper to lighter sleep). It was quite clear from graphs from the sleep study. Do you have any obstructive sleep apnea? Did you go see a Board Certified sleep specialist. One with a neurology background would probably be preferrable in this case. Are you trying any medications? There are several that seem to help with improving the breathing drive. For example, from my reading it appears medications used to treat altitude sickness can also help someone with Cheyne Stokes. No guarantees. But a thought. Just some thoughts and ideas. Hope they help. Regards, =jbf= B. Fisher Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 29, 2002 Report Share Posted October 29, 2002 Greetings Bill! I wish I had answers for this. Going from wake to sleep often triggers interrupted breathing, anyway. Even in healthy people. With this type of disorder it can be amplified. I understand your frustrations and fears. Some days I dread sleep. Almost always when my symptoms are worse, as this problem seems to be magnified then. As a result, my sleep patterns are very poor, as I often wait until VERY tired before sleeping. I would rather sleep soundly for a short period of time, than put up with that wake-sleep barrier !!!! As the symptoms decrease, so do my problems with sleep. I wish my sleep was more regular, but I do what seems to help. Even eight years ago my sleep study found events of central sleep apnea. I suspect it is more prominent now. Unless it becomes very troubling, I will not have further sleep studies. But, a question: Are you using a BiPAP unit? I had serious problems with the constant pressure of CPAP. Switching to BiPAP decreased the number of arousals (moving from deeper to lighter sleep). It was quite clear from graphs from the sleep study. Do you have any obstructive sleep apnea? Did you go see a Board Certified sleep specialist. One with a neurology background would probably be preferrable in this case. Are you trying any medications? There are several that seem to help with improving the breathing drive. For example, from my reading it appears medications used to treat altitude sickness can also help someone with Cheyne Stokes. No guarantees. But a thought. Just some thoughts and ideas. Hope they help. Regards, =jbf= B. Fisher Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 30, 2002 Report Share Posted October 30, 2002 Dear Bill, Cheyne-stokes respiration is a breathing pattern characterized by waxing and waning of the depth of respirations, that is deep breathing then slight to no breathing for short periods. This pattern continues from 45 sec. to 3 minuites at times. It is usually associated with the patient that has a disease of the repiratory center, heart, or brain. I wonder if your problem is more like sleep apnea, where you stop breathing at night related to the toungue falling to the back of your throat. This is fairly common occurance when a person is lying on their back and in a deep sleep, or heavily sedated. (ALOT of people do this) My suggestion would be to lie on your side and elevate the head of the bed at a 40 to 60 degree angle. The rational here is that you encourage your toungue to stay in a forward type position. You can get a sleep apnea monitor that will alarm when you stop breathing and wake you up. This machine is utilized on newborn infants that have immature lungs and stop breathing, the alarm alerts the caretaker that the infant needs to be stimulated to breath, but it can be used on the adult patient as well. Another piece of equipment that is available is a C PAP machine. This stands for continuous positive air pressure. This machine forces air into your lungs at a regular rate and assures proper oxygenation during the night. This machine takes some getting used to, and is worn over the face like a mask, but can provide the user with better breathing patterns. Some people that are overweight, (me included) and simply loosing weight can allow less bulk in the neck and chest area & improve their respiratory effort. There is also a surgical procedure in which they could remove part of your palate (roof of your mouth and uvula) which would allow a larger opening for air to pass. Wearing oxygen at night may also be helpful, if you are concerned you are not getting enough oxygen. I hope this information has helped. Cindi > >Reply-To: shydrager >To: " shydrager " <shydrager > >Subject: Cheyne Stokes >Date: Tue, 29 Oct 2002 21:46:53 +1000 (E. Australia Standard Time) > >Hi Everybody. I wonder if any one on the site has come across Cheyne >Stokes >Respiratory pattern. Most people I come across, are a little bit shy >talking about it to me, as they seem to think that only people on their >last >legs get this problem. >Although I have been properly tested in a sleep study set-up and have been >diagnosed, I believe it is being induced, by something else- Medication or >other problem. >I would really like to find out about occurrences and possible relief from >the problem. It makes me feel uncomfortable about going to sleep. One >thing I have noticed is, ifm I exercise a lot, the breathing pattern is >suppressed for quite a while. Unfortunately my legs want to fall from >under >me, literally, by the time I get enough exercise. >I hope somebody can supply some answers, even if they are not good ones. >Bill Pilgrim > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 30, 2002 Report Share Posted October 30, 2002 Dear Bill, Cheyne-stokes respiration is a breathing pattern characterized by waxing and waning of the depth of respirations, that is deep breathing then slight to no breathing for short periods. This pattern continues from 45 sec. to 3 minuites at times. It is usually associated with the patient that has a disease of the repiratory center, heart, or brain. I wonder if your problem is more like sleep apnea, where you stop breathing at night related to the toungue falling to the back of your throat. This is fairly common occurance when a person is lying on their back and in a deep sleep, or heavily sedated. (ALOT of people do this) My suggestion would be to lie on your side and elevate the head of the bed at a 40 to 60 degree angle. The rational here is that you encourage your toungue to stay in a forward type position. You can get a sleep apnea monitor that will alarm when you stop breathing and wake you up. This machine is utilized on newborn infants that have immature lungs and stop breathing, the alarm alerts the caretaker that the infant needs to be stimulated to breath, but it can be used on the adult patient as well. Another piece of equipment that is available is a C PAP machine. This stands for continuous positive air pressure. This machine forces air into your lungs at a regular rate and assures proper oxygenation during the night. This machine takes some getting used to, and is worn over the face like a mask, but can provide the user with better breathing patterns. Some people that are overweight, (me included) and simply loosing weight can allow less bulk in the neck and chest area & improve their respiratory effort. There is also a surgical procedure in which they could remove part of your palate (roof of your mouth and uvula) which would allow a larger opening for air to pass. Wearing oxygen at night may also be helpful, if you are concerned you are not getting enough oxygen. I hope this information has helped. Cindi > >Reply-To: shydrager >To: " shydrager " <shydrager > >Subject: Cheyne Stokes >Date: Tue, 29 Oct 2002 21:46:53 +1000 (E. Australia Standard Time) > >Hi Everybody. I wonder if any one on the site has come across Cheyne >Stokes >Respiratory pattern. Most people I come across, are a little bit shy >talking about it to me, as they seem to think that only people on their >last >legs get this problem. >Although I have been properly tested in a sleep study set-up and have been >diagnosed, I believe it is being induced, by something else- Medication or >other problem. >I would really like to find out about occurrences and possible relief from >the problem. It makes me feel uncomfortable about going to sleep. One >thing I have noticed is, ifm I exercise a lot, the breathing pattern is >suppressed for quite a while. Unfortunately my legs want to fall from >under >me, literally, by the time I get enough exercise. >I hope somebody can supply some answers, even if they are not good ones. >Bill Pilgrim > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 30, 2002 Report Share Posted October 30, 2002 , I am not up on this problem and would defer to Fisher's note or Pam and Vera's websites. is much more up on sleep/breathing problems and Pam and Vera found the websites before I got the message :-) Vera has learned a lot about web surfing ;-) - Vera which search engine do you use? I think Pam uses Goggle and I use Yahoo. YAHOOOOooooo! Hugs, Bill Werre ============================================================== Sennewald wrote: >Bill: > >Could you tell me what this pattern is as my wife has been having >respiratory problems recently. > >Message: 18 > Date: Tue, 29 Oct 2002 21:46:53 +1000 (E. Australia Standard Time) > >Subject: Cheyne Stokes > > >Hi Everybody. I wonder if any one on the site has come across Cheyne Stokes >Respiratory pattern. Most people I come across, are a little bit shy >talking about it to me, as they seem to think that only people on their last >legs get this problem. > > >Although I have been properly tested in a sleep study set-up and have been >diagnosed, I believe it is being induced, by something else- Medication or >other problem. > > >I would really like to find out about occurrences and possible relief from >the problem. It makes me feel uncomfortable about going to sleep. One >thing I have noticed is, ifm I exercise a lot, the breathing pattern is >suppressed for quite a while. Unfortunately my legs want to fall from under >me, literally, by the time I get enough exercise. > > >I hope somebody can supply some answers, even if they are not good ones. > > >Bill Pilgrim > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 30, 2002 Report Share Posted October 30, 2002 , I am not up on this problem and would defer to Fisher's note or Pam and Vera's websites. is much more up on sleep/breathing problems and Pam and Vera found the websites before I got the message :-) Vera has learned a lot about web surfing ;-) - Vera which search engine do you use? I think Pam uses Goggle and I use Yahoo. YAHOOOOooooo! Hugs, Bill Werre ============================================================== Sennewald wrote: >Bill: > >Could you tell me what this pattern is as my wife has been having >respiratory problems recently. > >Message: 18 > Date: Tue, 29 Oct 2002 21:46:53 +1000 (E. Australia Standard Time) > >Subject: Cheyne Stokes > > >Hi Everybody. I wonder if any one on the site has come across Cheyne Stokes >Respiratory pattern. Most people I come across, are a little bit shy >talking about it to me, as they seem to think that only people on their last >legs get this problem. > > >Although I have been properly tested in a sleep study set-up and have been >diagnosed, I believe it is being induced, by something else- Medication or >other problem. > > >I would really like to find out about occurrences and possible relief from >the problem. It makes me feel uncomfortable about going to sleep. One >thing I have noticed is, ifm I exercise a lot, the breathing pattern is >suppressed for quite a while. Unfortunately my legs want to fall from under >me, literally, by the time I get enough exercise. > > >I hope somebody can supply some answers, even if they are not good ones. > > >Bill Pilgrim > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 30, 2002 Report Share Posted October 30, 2002 Greetings , The Cheyne Stokes breathing pattern is a repetitive pattern of shallower and shallower breathing until breathing ceases. This is followed by an arousal as the brain notices the decrease in oxygen. The person then gasps in air, and the pattern continues. It is often a symptom of late term congestive heart failure or late stages of dying. Hence the reaction Bill receives. Fortunately, it may just indicate poor autonomic response, indicating the need for a sleep study at a certified clinic. Be certain to discuss the case with a Board Certified specialist, who is familiar with autonomic and central nervous system failure problems. Also be certain to discuss this with the tech who monitors the sleep study during they night. They will then keep an eye out for that pattern. However, more common sleep problems during the night for MSA patients are sleep apnea. Lots of snoring, then no breathing, followed by a gasping for air. This is obstructive sleep apnea. Again a sleep study would be in order if you notice that with your wife. Much more rarely, a patient simply stops breathing. This is central sleep apnea. It is fortunately very rare. The next course of action. Yup you guessed it. Talk with her doctor and see about a referral. Regards, =jbf= B. Fisher Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 30, 2002 Report Share Posted October 30, 2002 Greetings , The Cheyne Stokes breathing pattern is a repetitive pattern of shallower and shallower breathing until breathing ceases. This is followed by an arousal as the brain notices the decrease in oxygen. The person then gasps in air, and the pattern continues. It is often a symptom of late term congestive heart failure or late stages of dying. Hence the reaction Bill receives. Fortunately, it may just indicate poor autonomic response, indicating the need for a sleep study at a certified clinic. Be certain to discuss the case with a Board Certified specialist, who is familiar with autonomic and central nervous system failure problems. Also be certain to discuss this with the tech who monitors the sleep study during they night. They will then keep an eye out for that pattern. However, more common sleep problems during the night for MSA patients are sleep apnea. Lots of snoring, then no breathing, followed by a gasping for air. This is obstructive sleep apnea. Again a sleep study would be in order if you notice that with your wife. Much more rarely, a patient simply stops breathing. This is central sleep apnea. It is fortunately very rare. The next course of action. Yup you guessed it. Talk with her doctor and see about a referral. Regards, =jbf= B. Fisher Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 30, 2002 Report Share Posted October 30, 2002 Dear Bill, Cheyne-stokes respiration is a breathing pattern characterized by waxing and waning of the depth of respirations, that is deep breathing then slight to no breathing for short periods. This pattern continues from 45 sec. to 3 minuites at times. It is usually associated with the patient that has a disease of the repiratory center, heart, or brain. I wonder if your problem is more like sleep apnea, where you stop breathing at night related to the toungue falling to the back of your throat. This is fairly common occurance when a person is lying on their back and in a deep sleep, or heavily sedated. (ALOT of people do this) My suggestion would be to lie on your side and elevate the head of the bed at a 40 to 60 degree angle. The rational here is that you encourage your toungue to stay in a forward type position. You can get a sleep apnea monitor that will alarm when you stop breathing and wake you up. This machine is utilized on newborn infants that have immature lungs and stop breathing, the alarm alerts the caretaker that the infant needs to be stimulated to breath, but it can be used on the adult patient as well. Another piece of equipment that is available is a C PAP machine. This stands for continuous positive air pressure. This machine forces air into your lungs at a regular rate and assures proper oxygenation during the night. This machine takes some getting used to, and is worn over the face like a mask, but can provide the user with better breathing patterns. Some people that are overweight, (me included) and simply loosing weight can allow less bulk in the neck and chest area & improve their respiratory effort. There is also a surgical procedure in which they could remove part of your palate (roof of your mouth and uvula) which would allow a larger opening for air to pass. Wearing oxygen at night may also be helpful, if you are concerned you are not getting enough oxygen. I hope this information has helped. Cindi > >Reply-To: shydrager >To: " shydrager " <shydrager > >Subject: Cheyne Stokes >Date: Tue, 29 Oct 2002 21:46:53 +1000 (E. Australia Standard Time) > >Hi Everybody. I wonder if any one on the site has come across Cheyne >Stokes >Respiratory pattern. Most people I come across, are a little bit shy >talking about it to me, as they seem to think that only people on their >last >legs get this problem. >Although I have been properly tested in a sleep study set-up and have been >diagnosed, I believe it is being induced, by something else- Medication or >other problem. >I would really like to find out about occurrences and possible relief from >the problem. It makes me feel uncomfortable about going to sleep. One >thing I have noticed is, ifm I exercise a lot, the breathing pattern is >suppressed for quite a while. Unfortunately my legs want to fall from >under >me, literally, by the time I get enough exercise. >I hope somebody can supply some answers, even if they are not good ones. >Bill Pilgrim > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 30, 2002 Report Share Posted October 30, 2002 Dear Bill, Cheyne-stokes respiration is a breathing pattern characterized by waxing and waning of the depth of respirations, that is deep breathing then slight to no breathing for short periods. This pattern continues from 45 sec. to 3 minuites at times. It is usually associated with the patient that has a disease of the repiratory center, heart, or brain. I wonder if your problem is more like sleep apnea, where you stop breathing at night related to the toungue falling to the back of your throat. This is fairly common occurance when a person is lying on their back and in a deep sleep, or heavily sedated. (ALOT of people do this) My suggestion would be to lie on your side and elevate the head of the bed at a 40 to 60 degree angle. The rational here is that you encourage your toungue to stay in a forward type position. You can get a sleep apnea monitor that will alarm when you stop breathing and wake you up. This machine is utilized on newborn infants that have immature lungs and stop breathing, the alarm alerts the caretaker that the infant needs to be stimulated to breath, but it can be used on the adult patient as well. Another piece of equipment that is available is a C PAP machine. This stands for continuous positive air pressure. This machine forces air into your lungs at a regular rate and assures proper oxygenation during the night. This machine takes some getting used to, and is worn over the face like a mask, but can provide the user with better breathing patterns. Some people that are overweight, (me included) and simply loosing weight can allow less bulk in the neck and chest area & improve their respiratory effort. There is also a surgical procedure in which they could remove part of your palate (roof of your mouth and uvula) which would allow a larger opening for air to pass. Wearing oxygen at night may also be helpful, if you are concerned you are not getting enough oxygen. I hope this information has helped. Cindi > >Reply-To: shydrager >To: " shydrager " <shydrager > >Subject: Cheyne Stokes >Date: Tue, 29 Oct 2002 21:46:53 +1000 (E. Australia Standard Time) > >Hi Everybody. I wonder if any one on the site has come across Cheyne >Stokes >Respiratory pattern. Most people I come across, are a little bit shy >talking about it to me, as they seem to think that only people on their >last >legs get this problem. >Although I have been properly tested in a sleep study set-up and have been >diagnosed, I believe it is being induced, by something else- Medication or >other problem. >I would really like to find out about occurrences and possible relief from >the problem. It makes me feel uncomfortable about going to sleep. One >thing I have noticed is, ifm I exercise a lot, the breathing pattern is >suppressed for quite a while. Unfortunately my legs want to fall from >under >me, literally, by the time I get enough exercise. >I hope somebody can supply some answers, even if they are not good ones. >Bill Pilgrim > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 30, 2002 Report Share Posted October 30, 2002 Greetings Cindi! Well written. If you don't mind, I would like to voice my opinion (and it's just that, folks). I am not a doctor or researcher. But as a layman that did a lot os studying of options surgical procedures for most Obstructive Sleep Apnea (OSA) patients has limited success. As my ENT explained to me, in 70-50% of the patients they see a 50% improvement in the number of apnea events. This is okay, if the patient has mild to moderate sleep apnea. But anyone with severe OSA should avoid such surgery. Also, there are several studies that show the benefit of the surgery decreases with time. Nor is the surgery effective for patients with central sleep apnea (CSA). Finally the surgery can actually increase problems with swallowing. Not a good thing for an MSA patient. Ask your doctor about these items. They should be considered before taking the route to surgery. But please don't construe this as criticism. Your post was excellently written, providing much more detail than I could post today. Thank you for doing this! Taking the time to care for others, as you did so well, is what makes this group so helpful. Regards, =jbf= B. Fisher Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 30, 2002 Report Share Posted October 30, 2002 Greetings Cindi! Well written. If you don't mind, I would like to voice my opinion (and it's just that, folks). I am not a doctor or researcher. But as a layman that did a lot os studying of options surgical procedures for most Obstructive Sleep Apnea (OSA) patients has limited success. As my ENT explained to me, in 70-50% of the patients they see a 50% improvement in the number of apnea events. This is okay, if the patient has mild to moderate sleep apnea. But anyone with severe OSA should avoid such surgery. Also, there are several studies that show the benefit of the surgery decreases with time. Nor is the surgery effective for patients with central sleep apnea (CSA). Finally the surgery can actually increase problems with swallowing. Not a good thing for an MSA patient. Ask your doctor about these items. They should be considered before taking the route to surgery. But please don't construe this as criticism. Your post was excellently written, providing much more detail than I could post today. Thank you for doing this! Taking the time to care for others, as you did so well, is what makes this group so helpful. Regards, =jbf= B. Fisher Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 31, 2002 Report Share Posted October 31, 2002 Can this pattern occur during awake - i.e. non sleeping - periods? Sennewald Charlottesville, Virginia Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 31, 2002 Report Share Posted October 31, 2002 Can this pattern occur during awake - i.e. non sleeping - periods? Sennewald Charlottesville, Virginia Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 31, 2002 Report Share Posted October 31, 2002 Yes, Leo does it all the time. Ginger Re: Cheyne Stokes > Can this pattern occur during awake - i.e. non sleeping - periods? > > Sennewald Charlottesville, Virginia > > > > If you do not wish to belong to shydrager, you may > unsubscribe by sending a blank email to > > shydrager-unsubscribe > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 31, 2002 Report Share Posted October 31, 2002 Yes, Leo does it all the time. Ginger Re: Cheyne Stokes > Can this pattern occur during awake - i.e. non sleeping - periods? > > Sennewald Charlottesville, Virginia > > > > If you do not wish to belong to shydrager, you may > unsubscribe by sending a blank email to > > shydrager-unsubscribe > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 31, 2002 Report Share Posted October 31, 2002 Absolutely. It occurs during sleep or wake cycles. HOWEVER, a bit of shallow breathing followed by a deep sigh is perfectly normal. The body uses this pattern to help keep the 'air sacs' in the longs fully expanded. So, in other words, when in doubt always check with your health care professionals. Regards, =jbf= B. Fisher Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 31, 2002 Report Share Posted October 31, 2002 Absolutely. It occurs during sleep or wake cycles. HOWEVER, a bit of shallow breathing followed by a deep sigh is perfectly normal. The body uses this pattern to help keep the 'air sacs' in the longs fully expanded. So, in other words, when in doubt always check with your health care professionals. Regards, =jbf= B. Fisher Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 31, 2002 Report Share Posted October 31, 2002 , Best I can recall it's been going on at almost 3 years maybe longer. The home health nurse first called it to my attention, she would count up to 25 secs between breaths. I spoke to Dr Jankovic in Houston and he said all I could do to stop it was put a c-pap or bi-pap on him all the time. Since all he CAN do is watch TV, the kids and I decided not to do that. He is not oxygen deprived. Wish I could tell you more, but that's all I know. Ginger Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 31, 2002 Report Share Posted October 31, 2002 , Best I can recall it's been going on at almost 3 years maybe longer. The home health nurse first called it to my attention, she would count up to 25 secs between breaths. I spoke to Dr Jankovic in Houston and he said all I could do to stop it was put a c-pap or bi-pap on him all the time. Since all he CAN do is watch TV, the kids and I decided not to do that. He is not oxygen deprived. Wish I could tell you more, but that's all I know. Ginger Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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