Re: two bad words - and minirascal, are you out there? - to

[Guest guest]

Hi ,

What and I are referring to are the condyles. In case you don't

know, the condyles are the vertical part of your lower jaw where it

hinges with the upper in the temporomandibular (or TMJ) joint.

Sometimes as a result of arthritis or congenital abnormalities (in

my case both), the condyles can just " melt away " . Even the stress of

orthognathic surgery (in rare cases) can cause condylar resorption.

When just one condyle starts to deteriorate, the lower jaw gets

pulled over to that side and appears assymetric. If both condyles

are affected, it will cause an open bite and/or overbite that

continues to worsen as the bone " melts away " . For example, in my

case, I had mainly a huge open bite but not an overbite. By the

time, I had my first surgery, it had progressed to a 22 mm overbite

as well. By correcting my bite, we were hoping that my joints would

stop deteriorating but they rapidly got worse. My surgeon even did

the surgery in two stages to minimize stress on the joints. My bite

was perfect in the first few months post-op but by six months I had

an 8 mm overbite again. Since then I've had three more surgeries to

reconstruct the joints.

I think what you're talking about is bone and gum recession around

the teeth themselves. That's not really been a problem for me so I'm

not too familiar with that. I hope that won't be a problem for you

either. I also hope that I haven't confused you more.

> >

> > Hi all. I don't pop in much anymore now that I'm a year and a

> half

> > post-op. It seems the surgery didn't stop my left joint from

> > getting worse. Since the outcome of my surgery hasn't been as

> > postive as hoped, I haven't visted much because I don't want to

> > scare others away from the surgery. My outcome isn't the norm,

and

> I

> > still swear that my overall experience has been positive. I

> remain

> > hopefull that the much improved position of my teeth will help

get

> > my bite stabilized.

> >

> > So what brings me here today? I just had my one year follow up

> with

> > my ortho. I knew my bite had changed, but my upper and lower

> bonded

> > retainers are fine, and my upper removable retainer still fits

> like

> > a glove. That leaves the bones and the likely culprits. My

teeth

> > don't meet on the right anymore, so my ortho suspects I've begun

> > experiencing the two words no one had yet voiced to me -

condylar

> > resorbtion. As he put it, the condyles can " just melt " . I knew

> > about condylar resorbtion long before my visit today, largely

from

> > the Yahoo boards (thanks, minirascal and others! It is good to

be

> > prepared), so given my history of joint issues, it's always

> floated

> > around as an unspoken possibility in the back of my mind. Now

> it's

> > gone from possible to probable.

> >

> > I already have plans to start splint therapy (again - round 3)

in

> > early 2005, so even though this is the first specific mention

of

> > condylar resporbtion in regards to me, I was already headed down

> the

> > path of treatment for it. Wish me luck as I continue on this

path

> > that I'd hoped to have gotten off of by now! My best to all of

> you.

> >

> > And if there are pre-opers reading this, remember, I'm NOT THE

> NORM!!

> >

> >

> > (used to be emshelby2003)

[Guest guest]

Hi ,

What and I are referring to are the condyles. In case you don't

know, the condyles are the vertical part of your lower jaw where it

hinges with the upper in the temporomandibular (or TMJ) joint.

Sometimes as a result of arthritis or congenital abnormalities (in

my case both), the condyles can just " melt away " . Even the stress of

orthognathic surgery (in rare cases) can cause condylar resorption.

When just one condyle starts to deteriorate, the lower jaw gets

pulled over to that side and appears assymetric. If both condyles

are affected, it will cause an open bite and/or overbite that

continues to worsen as the bone " melts away " . For example, in my

case, I had mainly a huge open bite but not an overbite. By the

time, I had my first surgery, it had progressed to a 22 mm overbite

as well. By correcting my bite, we were hoping that my joints would

stop deteriorating but they rapidly got worse. My surgeon even did

the surgery in two stages to minimize stress on the joints. My bite

was perfect in the first few months post-op but by six months I had

an 8 mm overbite again. Since then I've had three more surgeries to

reconstruct the joints.

I think what you're talking about is bone and gum recession around

the teeth themselves. That's not really been a problem for me so I'm

not too familiar with that. I hope that won't be a problem for you

either. I also hope that I haven't confused you more.

> >

> > Hi all. I don't pop in much anymore now that I'm a year and a

> half

> > post-op. It seems the surgery didn't stop my left joint from

> > getting worse. Since the outcome of my surgery hasn't been as

> > postive as hoped, I haven't visted much because I don't want to

> > scare others away from the surgery. My outcome isn't the norm,

and

> I

> > still swear that my overall experience has been positive. I

> remain

> > hopefull that the much improved position of my teeth will help

get

> > my bite stabilized.

> >

> > So what brings me here today? I just had my one year follow up

> with

> > my ortho. I knew my bite had changed, but my upper and lower

> bonded

> > retainers are fine, and my upper removable retainer still fits

> like

> > a glove. That leaves the bones and the likely culprits. My

teeth

> > don't meet on the right anymore, so my ortho suspects I've begun

> > experiencing the two words no one had yet voiced to me -

condylar

> > resorbtion. As he put it, the condyles can " just melt " . I knew

> > about condylar resorbtion long before my visit today, largely

from

> > the Yahoo boards (thanks, minirascal and others! It is good to

be

> > prepared), so given my history of joint issues, it's always

> floated

> > around as an unspoken possibility in the back of my mind. Now

> it's

> > gone from possible to probable.

> >

> > I already have plans to start splint therapy (again - round 3)

in

> > early 2005, so even though this is the first specific mention

of

> > condylar resporbtion in regards to me, I was already headed down

> the

> > path of treatment for it. Wish me luck as I continue on this

path

> > that I'd hoped to have gotten off of by now! My best to all of

> you.

> >

> > And if there are pre-opers reading this, remember, I'm NOT THE

> NORM!!

> >

> >

> > (used to be emshelby2003)

[Guest guest]

Hi ,

Sorry I wasn't more specific about what this deterioration is. I've

been dealing with TMJ problems for so long that I sometimes forget

that others don't know all this stupid terminology I've had to

learn. May you never truly have need to know more about this!

sums it up pretty well. It really doesn't have anything to do

with the teeth moving. My predicament, and hers as well, is that

the bones in our joints are changing, which affects how our upper

and lower arches meet, even though the shape of each arch hasn't

changed. My teeth are exactly where my ortho left them when he took

my braces off one year ago today, but my bones aren't in the same

shape they were a year ago today. To be really specific, if you

take your fingers and put them directly in front of your ears, open

your mouth and your jaw joint opening, it's the lower bone, known in

medical terminology as the condyle, on my my left side that

is " melting " away. That melting condition is what is know as

condylar resobption.

That said, when you read things like this on this board, please keep

in mind that cases like mine and 's aren't the norm. Some

people do have bad experiences, but both and I had jaw

problems before we had orthognathic surgery of any kind. I remember

my fears growing day by day as my surgery day got closer, but once I

was on the other side, I kind of chuckled at myself for getting so

nervous about the surgery because it was so much easier than I ever

expected it to be. Hang in there!

> > >

> > > Hi all. I don't pop in much anymore now that I'm a year and a

> > half

> > > post-op. It seems the surgery didn't stop my left joint from

> > > getting worse. Since the outcome of my surgery hasn't been as

> > > postive as hoped, I haven't visted much because I don't want

to

> > > scare others away from the surgery. My outcome isn't the norm,

> and

> > I

> > > still swear that my overall experience has been positive. I

> > remain

> > > hopefull that the much improved position of my teeth will help

> get

> > > my bite stabilized.

> > >

> > > So what brings me here today? I just had my one year follow

up

> > with

> > > my ortho. I knew my bite had changed, but my upper and lower

> > bonded

> > > retainers are fine, and my upper removable retainer still fits

> > like

> > > a glove. That leaves the bones and the likely culprits. My

> teeth

> > > don't meet on the right anymore, so my ortho suspects I've

begun

> > > experiencing the two words no one had yet voiced to me -

> condylar

> > > resorbtion. As he put it, the condyles can " just melt " . I

knew

> > > about condylar resorbtion long before my visit today, largely

> from

> > > the Yahoo boards (thanks, minirascal and others! It is good

to

> be

> > > prepared), so given my history of joint issues, it's always

> > floated

> > > around as an unspoken possibility in the back of my mind. Now

> > it's

> > > gone from possible to probable.

> > >

> > > I already have plans to start splint therapy (again - round 3)

> in

> > > early 2005, so even though this is the first specific mention

> of

> > > condylar resporbtion in regards to me, I was already headed

down

> > the

> > > path of treatment for it. Wish me luck as I continue on this

> path

> > > that I'd hoped to have gotten off of by now! My best to all

of

> > you.

> > >

> > > And if there are pre-opers reading this, remember, I'm NOT THE

> > NORM!!

> > >

> > >

> > > (used to be emshelby2003)

[Guest guest]

Hi ,

Sorry I wasn't more specific about what this deterioration is. I've

been dealing with TMJ problems for so long that I sometimes forget

that others don't know all this stupid terminology I've had to

learn. May you never truly have need to know more about this!

sums it up pretty well. It really doesn't have anything to do

with the teeth moving. My predicament, and hers as well, is that

the bones in our joints are changing, which affects how our upper

and lower arches meet, even though the shape of each arch hasn't

changed. My teeth are exactly where my ortho left them when he took

my braces off one year ago today, but my bones aren't in the same

shape they were a year ago today. To be really specific, if you

take your fingers and put them directly in front of your ears, open

your mouth and your jaw joint opening, it's the lower bone, known in

medical terminology as the condyle, on my my left side that

is " melting " away. That melting condition is what is know as

condylar resobption.

That said, when you read things like this on this board, please keep

in mind that cases like mine and 's aren't the norm. Some

people do have bad experiences, but both and I had jaw

problems before we had orthognathic surgery of any kind. I remember

my fears growing day by day as my surgery day got closer, but once I

was on the other side, I kind of chuckled at myself for getting so

nervous about the surgery because it was so much easier than I ever

expected it to be. Hang in there!

> > >

> > > Hi all. I don't pop in much anymore now that I'm a year and a

> > half

> > > post-op. It seems the surgery didn't stop my left joint from

> > > getting worse. Since the outcome of my surgery hasn't been as

> > > postive as hoped, I haven't visted much because I don't want

to

> > > scare others away from the surgery. My outcome isn't the norm,

> and

> > I

> > > still swear that my overall experience has been positive. I

> > remain

> > > hopefull that the much improved position of my teeth will help

> get

> > > my bite stabilized.

> > >

> > > So what brings me here today? I just had my one year follow

up

> > with

> > > my ortho. I knew my bite had changed, but my upper and lower

> > bonded

> > > retainers are fine, and my upper removable retainer still fits

> > like

> > > a glove. That leaves the bones and the likely culprits. My

> teeth

> > > don't meet on the right anymore, so my ortho suspects I've

begun

> > > experiencing the two words no one had yet voiced to me -

> condylar

> > > resorbtion. As he put it, the condyles can " just melt " . I

knew

> > > about condylar resorbtion long before my visit today, largely

> from

> > > the Yahoo boards (thanks, minirascal and others! It is good

to

> be

> > > prepared), so given my history of joint issues, it's always

> > floated

> > > around as an unspoken possibility in the back of my mind. Now

> > it's

> > > gone from possible to probable.

> > >

> > > I already have plans to start splint therapy (again - round 3)

> in

> > > early 2005, so even though this is the first specific mention

> of

> > > condylar resporbtion in regards to me, I was already headed

down

> > the

> > > path of treatment for it. Wish me luck as I continue on this

> path

> > > that I'd hoped to have gotten off of by now! My best to all

of

> > you.

> > >

> > > And if there are pre-opers reading this, remember, I'm NOT THE

> > NORM!!

> > >

> > >

> > > (used to be emshelby2003)

[Guest guest]

- and , thanks for the specifics on your condition. i hope

all continues to be well for both of you, it DOES sound like the

exception. Best,

-- In orthognathicsurgerysupport , " "

<erinmklein@y...> wrote:

>

> Hi ,

>

> Sorry I wasn't more specific about what this deterioration is.

I've

> been dealing with TMJ problems for so long that I sometimes forget

> that others don't know all this stupid terminology I've had to

> learn. May you never truly have need to know more about this!

>

> sums it up pretty well. It really doesn't have anything to

do

> with the teeth moving. My predicament, and hers as well, is that

> the bones in our joints are changing, which affects how our upper

> and lower arches meet, even though the shape of each arch hasn't

> changed. My teeth are exactly where my ortho left them when he

took

> my braces off one year ago today, but my bones aren't in the same

> shape they were a year ago today. To be really specific, if you

> take your fingers and put them directly in front of your ears,

open

> your mouth and your jaw joint opening, it's the lower bone, known

in

> medical terminology as the condyle, on my my left side that

> is " melting " away. That melting condition is what is know as

> condylar resobption.

>

> That said, when you read things like this on this board, please

keep

> in mind that cases like mine and 's aren't the norm. Some

> people do have bad experiences, but both and I had jaw

> problems before we had orthognathic surgery of any kind. I

remember

> my fears growing day by day as my surgery day got closer, but once

I

> was on the other side, I kind of chuckled at myself for getting so

> nervous about the surgery because it was so much easier than I

ever

> expected it to be. Hang in there!

>

>

>

>

> > > >

> > > > Hi all. I don't pop in much anymore now that I'm a year and

a

> > > half

> > > > post-op. It seems the surgery didn't stop my left joint

from

> > > > getting worse. Since the outcome of my surgery hasn't been

as

> > > > postive as hoped, I haven't visted much because I don't want

> to

> > > > scare others away from the surgery. My outcome isn't the

norm,

> > and

> > > I

> > > > still swear that my overall experience has been positive. I

> > > remain

> > > > hopefull that the much improved position of my teeth will

help

> > get

> > > > my bite stabilized.

> > > >

> > > > So what brings me here today? I just had my one year follow

> up

> > > with

> > > > my ortho. I knew my bite had changed, but my upper and

lower

> > > bonded

> > > > retainers are fine, and my upper removable retainer still

fits

> > > like

> > > > a glove. That leaves the bones and the likely culprits. My

> > teeth

> > > > don't meet on the right anymore, so my ortho suspects I've

> begun

> > > > experiencing the two words no one had yet voiced to me -

> > condylar

> > > > resorbtion. As he put it, the condyles can " just melt " . I

> knew

> > > > about condylar resorbtion long before my visit today,

largely

> > from

> > > > the Yahoo boards (thanks, minirascal and others! It is good

> to

> > be

> > > > prepared), so given my history of joint issues, it's always

> > > floated

> > > > around as an unspoken possibility in the back of my mind.

Now

> > > it's

> > > > gone from possible to probable.

> > > >

> > > > I already have plans to start splint therapy (again - round

3)

> > in

> > > > early 2005, so even though this is the first specific

mention

> > of

> > > > condylar resporbtion in regards to me, I was already headed

> down

> > > the

> > > > path of treatment for it. Wish me luck as I continue on

this

> > path

> > > > that I'd hoped to have gotten off of by now! My best to all

> of

> > > you.

> > > >

> > > > And if there are pre-opers reading this, remember, I'm NOT

THE

> > > NORM!!

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > (used to be emshelby2003)

[Guest guest]

- and , thanks for the specifics on your condition. i hope

all continues to be well for both of you, it DOES sound like the

exception. Best,

-- In orthognathicsurgerysupport , " "

<erinmklein@y...> wrote:

>

> Hi ,

>

> Sorry I wasn't more specific about what this deterioration is.

I've

> been dealing with TMJ problems for so long that I sometimes forget

> that others don't know all this stupid terminology I've had to

> learn. May you never truly have need to know more about this!

>

> sums it up pretty well. It really doesn't have anything to

do

> with the teeth moving. My predicament, and hers as well, is that

> the bones in our joints are changing, which affects how our upper

> and lower arches meet, even though the shape of each arch hasn't

> changed. My teeth are exactly where my ortho left them when he

took

> my braces off one year ago today, but my bones aren't in the same

> shape they were a year ago today. To be really specific, if you

> take your fingers and put them directly in front of your ears,

open

> your mouth and your jaw joint opening, it's the lower bone, known

in

> medical terminology as the condyle, on my my left side that

> is " melting " away. That melting condition is what is know as

> condylar resobption.

>

> That said, when you read things like this on this board, please

keep

> in mind that cases like mine and 's aren't the norm. Some

> people do have bad experiences, but both and I had jaw

> problems before we had orthognathic surgery of any kind. I

remember

> my fears growing day by day as my surgery day got closer, but once

I

> was on the other side, I kind of chuckled at myself for getting so

> nervous about the surgery because it was so much easier than I

ever

> expected it to be. Hang in there!

>

>

>

>

> > > >

> > > > Hi all. I don't pop in much anymore now that I'm a year and

a

> > > half

> > > > post-op. It seems the surgery didn't stop my left joint

from

> > > > getting worse. Since the outcome of my surgery hasn't been

as

> > > > postive as hoped, I haven't visted much because I don't want

> to

> > > > scare others away from the surgery. My outcome isn't the

norm,

> > and

> > > I

> > > > still swear that my overall experience has been positive. I

> > > remain

> > > > hopefull that the much improved position of my teeth will

help

> > get

> > > > my bite stabilized.

> > > >

> > > > So what brings me here today? I just had my one year follow

> up

> > > with

> > > > my ortho. I knew my bite had changed, but my upper and

lower

> > > bonded

> > > > retainers are fine, and my upper removable retainer still

fits

> > > like

> > > > a glove. That leaves the bones and the likely culprits. My

> > teeth

> > > > don't meet on the right anymore, so my ortho suspects I've

> begun

> > > > experiencing the two words no one had yet voiced to me -

> > condylar

> > > > resorbtion. As he put it, the condyles can " just melt " . I

> knew

> > > > about condylar resorbtion long before my visit today,

largely

> > from

> > > > the Yahoo boards (thanks, minirascal and others! It is good

> to

> > be

> > > > prepared), so given my history of joint issues, it's always

> > > floated

> > > > around as an unspoken possibility in the back of my mind.

Now

> > > it's

> > > > gone from possible to probable.

> > > >

> > > > I already have plans to start splint therapy (again - round

3)

> > in

> > > > early 2005, so even though this is the first specific

mention

> > of

> > > > condylar resporbtion in regards to me, I was already headed

> down

> > > the

> > > > path of treatment for it. Wish me luck as I continue on

this

> > path

> > > > that I'd hoped to have gotten off of by now! My best to all

> of

> > > you.

> > > >

> > > > And if there are pre-opers reading this, remember, I'm NOT

THE

> > > NORM!!

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > (used to be emshelby2003)