Guest guest Posted November 3, 2004 Report Share Posted November 3, 2004 Hi , What and I are referring to are the condyles. In case you don't know, the condyles are the vertical part of your lower jaw where it hinges with the upper in the temporomandibular (or TMJ) joint. Sometimes as a result of arthritis or congenital abnormalities (in my case both), the condyles can just " melt away " . Even the stress of orthognathic surgery (in rare cases) can cause condylar resorption. When just one condyle starts to deteriorate, the lower jaw gets pulled over to that side and appears assymetric. If both condyles are affected, it will cause an open bite and/or overbite that continues to worsen as the bone " melts away " . For example, in my case, I had mainly a huge open bite but not an overbite. By the time, I had my first surgery, it had progressed to a 22 mm overbite as well. By correcting my bite, we were hoping that my joints would stop deteriorating but they rapidly got worse. My surgeon even did the surgery in two stages to minimize stress on the joints. My bite was perfect in the first few months post-op but by six months I had an 8 mm overbite again. Since then I've had three more surgeries to reconstruct the joints. I think what you're talking about is bone and gum recession around the teeth themselves. That's not really been a problem for me so I'm not too familiar with that. I hope that won't be a problem for you either. I also hope that I haven't confused you more. > > > > Hi all. I don't pop in much anymore now that I'm a year and a > half > > post-op. It seems the surgery didn't stop my left joint from > > getting worse. Since the outcome of my surgery hasn't been as > > postive as hoped, I haven't visted much because I don't want to > > scare others away from the surgery. My outcome isn't the norm, and > I > > still swear that my overall experience has been positive. I > remain > > hopefull that the much improved position of my teeth will help get > > my bite stabilized. > > > > So what brings me here today? I just had my one year follow up > with > > my ortho. I knew my bite had changed, but my upper and lower > bonded > > retainers are fine, and my upper removable retainer still fits > like > > a glove. That leaves the bones and the likely culprits. My teeth > > don't meet on the right anymore, so my ortho suspects I've begun > > experiencing the two words no one had yet voiced to me - condylar > > resorbtion. As he put it, the condyles can " just melt " . I knew > > about condylar resorbtion long before my visit today, largely from > > the Yahoo boards (thanks, minirascal and others! It is good to be > > prepared), so given my history of joint issues, it's always > floated > > around as an unspoken possibility in the back of my mind. Now > it's > > gone from possible to probable. > > > > I already have plans to start splint therapy (again - round 3) in > > early 2005, so even though this is the first specific mention of > > condylar resporbtion in regards to me, I was already headed down > the > > path of treatment for it. Wish me luck as I continue on this path > > that I'd hoped to have gotten off of by now! My best to all of > you. > > > > And if there are pre-opers reading this, remember, I'm NOT THE > NORM!! > > > > > > (used to be emshelby2003) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 3, 2004 Report Share Posted November 3, 2004 Hi , What and I are referring to are the condyles. In case you don't know, the condyles are the vertical part of your lower jaw where it hinges with the upper in the temporomandibular (or TMJ) joint. Sometimes as a result of arthritis or congenital abnormalities (in my case both), the condyles can just " melt away " . Even the stress of orthognathic surgery (in rare cases) can cause condylar resorption. When just one condyle starts to deteriorate, the lower jaw gets pulled over to that side and appears assymetric. If both condyles are affected, it will cause an open bite and/or overbite that continues to worsen as the bone " melts away " . For example, in my case, I had mainly a huge open bite but not an overbite. By the time, I had my first surgery, it had progressed to a 22 mm overbite as well. By correcting my bite, we were hoping that my joints would stop deteriorating but they rapidly got worse. My surgeon even did the surgery in two stages to minimize stress on the joints. My bite was perfect in the first few months post-op but by six months I had an 8 mm overbite again. Since then I've had three more surgeries to reconstruct the joints. I think what you're talking about is bone and gum recession around the teeth themselves. That's not really been a problem for me so I'm not too familiar with that. I hope that won't be a problem for you either. I also hope that I haven't confused you more. > > > > Hi all. I don't pop in much anymore now that I'm a year and a > half > > post-op. It seems the surgery didn't stop my left joint from > > getting worse. Since the outcome of my surgery hasn't been as > > postive as hoped, I haven't visted much because I don't want to > > scare others away from the surgery. My outcome isn't the norm, and > I > > still swear that my overall experience has been positive. I > remain > > hopefull that the much improved position of my teeth will help get > > my bite stabilized. > > > > So what brings me here today? I just had my one year follow up > with > > my ortho. I knew my bite had changed, but my upper and lower > bonded > > retainers are fine, and my upper removable retainer still fits > like > > a glove. That leaves the bones and the likely culprits. My teeth > > don't meet on the right anymore, so my ortho suspects I've begun > > experiencing the two words no one had yet voiced to me - condylar > > resorbtion. As he put it, the condyles can " just melt " . I knew > > about condylar resorbtion long before my visit today, largely from > > the Yahoo boards (thanks, minirascal and others! It is good to be > > prepared), so given my history of joint issues, it's always > floated > > around as an unspoken possibility in the back of my mind. Now > it's > > gone from possible to probable. > > > > I already have plans to start splint therapy (again - round 3) in > > early 2005, so even though this is the first specific mention of > > condylar resporbtion in regards to me, I was already headed down > the > > path of treatment for it. Wish me luck as I continue on this path > > that I'd hoped to have gotten off of by now! My best to all of > you. > > > > And if there are pre-opers reading this, remember, I'm NOT THE > NORM!! > > > > > > (used to be emshelby2003) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 4, 2004 Report Share Posted November 4, 2004 Hi , Sorry I wasn't more specific about what this deterioration is. I've been dealing with TMJ problems for so long that I sometimes forget that others don't know all this stupid terminology I've had to learn. May you never truly have need to know more about this! sums it up pretty well. It really doesn't have anything to do with the teeth moving. My predicament, and hers as well, is that the bones in our joints are changing, which affects how our upper and lower arches meet, even though the shape of each arch hasn't changed. My teeth are exactly where my ortho left them when he took my braces off one year ago today, but my bones aren't in the same shape they were a year ago today. To be really specific, if you take your fingers and put them directly in front of your ears, open your mouth and your jaw joint opening, it's the lower bone, known in medical terminology as the condyle, on my my left side that is " melting " away. That melting condition is what is know as condylar resobption. That said, when you read things like this on this board, please keep in mind that cases like mine and 's aren't the norm. Some people do have bad experiences, but both and I had jaw problems before we had orthognathic surgery of any kind. I remember my fears growing day by day as my surgery day got closer, but once I was on the other side, I kind of chuckled at myself for getting so nervous about the surgery because it was so much easier than I ever expected it to be. Hang in there! > > > > > > Hi all. I don't pop in much anymore now that I'm a year and a > > half > > > post-op. It seems the surgery didn't stop my left joint from > > > getting worse. Since the outcome of my surgery hasn't been as > > > postive as hoped, I haven't visted much because I don't want to > > > scare others away from the surgery. My outcome isn't the norm, > and > > I > > > still swear that my overall experience has been positive. I > > remain > > > hopefull that the much improved position of my teeth will help > get > > > my bite stabilized. > > > > > > So what brings me here today? I just had my one year follow up > > with > > > my ortho. I knew my bite had changed, but my upper and lower > > bonded > > > retainers are fine, and my upper removable retainer still fits > > like > > > a glove. That leaves the bones and the likely culprits. My > teeth > > > don't meet on the right anymore, so my ortho suspects I've begun > > > experiencing the two words no one had yet voiced to me - > condylar > > > resorbtion. As he put it, the condyles can " just melt " . I knew > > > about condylar resorbtion long before my visit today, largely > from > > > the Yahoo boards (thanks, minirascal and others! It is good to > be > > > prepared), so given my history of joint issues, it's always > > floated > > > around as an unspoken possibility in the back of my mind. Now > > it's > > > gone from possible to probable. > > > > > > I already have plans to start splint therapy (again - round 3) > in > > > early 2005, so even though this is the first specific mention > of > > > condylar resporbtion in regards to me, I was already headed down > > the > > > path of treatment for it. Wish me luck as I continue on this > path > > > that I'd hoped to have gotten off of by now! My best to all of > > you. > > > > > > And if there are pre-opers reading this, remember, I'm NOT THE > > NORM!! > > > > > > > > > (used to be emshelby2003) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 4, 2004 Report Share Posted November 4, 2004 Hi , Sorry I wasn't more specific about what this deterioration is. I've been dealing with TMJ problems for so long that I sometimes forget that others don't know all this stupid terminology I've had to learn. May you never truly have need to know more about this! sums it up pretty well. It really doesn't have anything to do with the teeth moving. My predicament, and hers as well, is that the bones in our joints are changing, which affects how our upper and lower arches meet, even though the shape of each arch hasn't changed. My teeth are exactly where my ortho left them when he took my braces off one year ago today, but my bones aren't in the same shape they were a year ago today. To be really specific, if you take your fingers and put them directly in front of your ears, open your mouth and your jaw joint opening, it's the lower bone, known in medical terminology as the condyle, on my my left side that is " melting " away. That melting condition is what is know as condylar resobption. That said, when you read things like this on this board, please keep in mind that cases like mine and 's aren't the norm. Some people do have bad experiences, but both and I had jaw problems before we had orthognathic surgery of any kind. I remember my fears growing day by day as my surgery day got closer, but once I was on the other side, I kind of chuckled at myself for getting so nervous about the surgery because it was so much easier than I ever expected it to be. Hang in there! > > > > > > Hi all. I don't pop in much anymore now that I'm a year and a > > half > > > post-op. It seems the surgery didn't stop my left joint from > > > getting worse. Since the outcome of my surgery hasn't been as > > > postive as hoped, I haven't visted much because I don't want to > > > scare others away from the surgery. My outcome isn't the norm, > and > > I > > > still swear that my overall experience has been positive. I > > remain > > > hopefull that the much improved position of my teeth will help > get > > > my bite stabilized. > > > > > > So what brings me here today? I just had my one year follow up > > with > > > my ortho. I knew my bite had changed, but my upper and lower > > bonded > > > retainers are fine, and my upper removable retainer still fits > > like > > > a glove. That leaves the bones and the likely culprits. My > teeth > > > don't meet on the right anymore, so my ortho suspects I've begun > > > experiencing the two words no one had yet voiced to me - > condylar > > > resorbtion. As he put it, the condyles can " just melt " . I knew > > > about condylar resorbtion long before my visit today, largely > from > > > the Yahoo boards (thanks, minirascal and others! It is good to > be > > > prepared), so given my history of joint issues, it's always > > floated > > > around as an unspoken possibility in the back of my mind. Now > > it's > > > gone from possible to probable. > > > > > > I already have plans to start splint therapy (again - round 3) > in > > > early 2005, so even though this is the first specific mention > of > > > condylar resporbtion in regards to me, I was already headed down > > the > > > path of treatment for it. Wish me luck as I continue on this > path > > > that I'd hoped to have gotten off of by now! My best to all of > > you. > > > > > > And if there are pre-opers reading this, remember, I'm NOT THE > > NORM!! > > > > > > > > > (used to be emshelby2003) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 4, 2004 Report Share Posted November 4, 2004 - and , thanks for the specifics on your condition. i hope all continues to be well for both of you, it DOES sound like the exception. Best, -- In orthognathicsurgerysupport , " " <erinmklein@y...> wrote: > > Hi , > > Sorry I wasn't more specific about what this deterioration is. I've > been dealing with TMJ problems for so long that I sometimes forget > that others don't know all this stupid terminology I've had to > learn. May you never truly have need to know more about this! > > sums it up pretty well. It really doesn't have anything to do > with the teeth moving. My predicament, and hers as well, is that > the bones in our joints are changing, which affects how our upper > and lower arches meet, even though the shape of each arch hasn't > changed. My teeth are exactly where my ortho left them when he took > my braces off one year ago today, but my bones aren't in the same > shape they were a year ago today. To be really specific, if you > take your fingers and put them directly in front of your ears, open > your mouth and your jaw joint opening, it's the lower bone, known in > medical terminology as the condyle, on my my left side that > is " melting " away. That melting condition is what is know as > condylar resobption. > > That said, when you read things like this on this board, please keep > in mind that cases like mine and 's aren't the norm. Some > people do have bad experiences, but both and I had jaw > problems before we had orthognathic surgery of any kind. I remember > my fears growing day by day as my surgery day got closer, but once I > was on the other side, I kind of chuckled at myself for getting so > nervous about the surgery because it was so much easier than I ever > expected it to be. Hang in there! > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi all. I don't pop in much anymore now that I'm a year and a > > > half > > > > post-op. It seems the surgery didn't stop my left joint from > > > > getting worse. Since the outcome of my surgery hasn't been as > > > > postive as hoped, I haven't visted much because I don't want > to > > > > scare others away from the surgery. My outcome isn't the norm, > > and > > > I > > > > still swear that my overall experience has been positive. I > > > remain > > > > hopefull that the much improved position of my teeth will help > > get > > > > my bite stabilized. > > > > > > > > So what brings me here today? I just had my one year follow > up > > > with > > > > my ortho. I knew my bite had changed, but my upper and lower > > > bonded > > > > retainers are fine, and my upper removable retainer still fits > > > like > > > > a glove. That leaves the bones and the likely culprits. My > > teeth > > > > don't meet on the right anymore, so my ortho suspects I've > begun > > > > experiencing the two words no one had yet voiced to me - > > condylar > > > > resorbtion. As he put it, the condyles can " just melt " . I > knew > > > > about condylar resorbtion long before my visit today, largely > > from > > > > the Yahoo boards (thanks, minirascal and others! It is good > to > > be > > > > prepared), so given my history of joint issues, it's always > > > floated > > > > around as an unspoken possibility in the back of my mind. Now > > > it's > > > > gone from possible to probable. > > > > > > > > I already have plans to start splint therapy (again - round 3) > > in > > > > early 2005, so even though this is the first specific mention > > of > > > > condylar resporbtion in regards to me, I was already headed > down > > > the > > > > path of treatment for it. Wish me luck as I continue on this > > path > > > > that I'd hoped to have gotten off of by now! My best to all > of > > > you. > > > > > > > > And if there are pre-opers reading this, remember, I'm NOT THE > > > NORM!! > > > > > > > > > > > > (used to be emshelby2003) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 4, 2004 Report Share Posted November 4, 2004 - and , thanks for the specifics on your condition. i hope all continues to be well for both of you, it DOES sound like the exception. Best, -- In orthognathicsurgerysupport , " " <erinmklein@y...> wrote: > > Hi , > > Sorry I wasn't more specific about what this deterioration is. I've > been dealing with TMJ problems for so long that I sometimes forget > that others don't know all this stupid terminology I've had to > learn. May you never truly have need to know more about this! > > sums it up pretty well. It really doesn't have anything to do > with the teeth moving. My predicament, and hers as well, is that > the bones in our joints are changing, which affects how our upper > and lower arches meet, even though the shape of each arch hasn't > changed. My teeth are exactly where my ortho left them when he took > my braces off one year ago today, but my bones aren't in the same > shape they were a year ago today. To be really specific, if you > take your fingers and put them directly in front of your ears, open > your mouth and your jaw joint opening, it's the lower bone, known in > medical terminology as the condyle, on my my left side that > is " melting " away. That melting condition is what is know as > condylar resobption. > > That said, when you read things like this on this board, please keep > in mind that cases like mine and 's aren't the norm. Some > people do have bad experiences, but both and I had jaw > problems before we had orthognathic surgery of any kind. I remember > my fears growing day by day as my surgery day got closer, but once I > was on the other side, I kind of chuckled at myself for getting so > nervous about the surgery because it was so much easier than I ever > expected it to be. Hang in there! > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi all. I don't pop in much anymore now that I'm a year and a > > > half > > > > post-op. It seems the surgery didn't stop my left joint from > > > > getting worse. Since the outcome of my surgery hasn't been as > > > > postive as hoped, I haven't visted much because I don't want > to > > > > scare others away from the surgery. My outcome isn't the norm, > > and > > > I > > > > still swear that my overall experience has been positive. I > > > remain > > > > hopefull that the much improved position of my teeth will help > > get > > > > my bite stabilized. > > > > > > > > So what brings me here today? I just had my one year follow > up > > > with > > > > my ortho. I knew my bite had changed, but my upper and lower > > > bonded > > > > retainers are fine, and my upper removable retainer still fits > > > like > > > > a glove. That leaves the bones and the likely culprits. My > > teeth > > > > don't meet on the right anymore, so my ortho suspects I've > begun > > > > experiencing the two words no one had yet voiced to me - > > condylar > > > > resorbtion. As he put it, the condyles can " just melt " . I > knew > > > > about condylar resorbtion long before my visit today, largely > > from > > > > the Yahoo boards (thanks, minirascal and others! It is good > to > > be > > > > prepared), so given my history of joint issues, it's always > > > floated > > > > around as an unspoken possibility in the back of my mind. Now > > > it's > > > > gone from possible to probable. > > > > > > > > I already have plans to start splint therapy (again - round 3) > > in > > > > early 2005, so even though this is the first specific mention > > of > > > > condylar resporbtion in regards to me, I was already headed > down > > > the > > > > path of treatment for it. Wish me luck as I continue on this > > path > > > > that I'd hoped to have gotten off of by now! My best to all > of > > > you. > > > > > > > > And if there are pre-opers reading this, remember, I'm NOT THE > > > NORM!! > > > > > > > > > > > > (used to be emshelby2003) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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