Guest guest Posted July 8, 2002 Report Share Posted July 8, 2002 Hi, I am a 24 year old male who is experiencing persistent facial erythema, superficial telangectasia( very subtle)within the blush distribution, and severe telangectasia of the eyelids. My predicament is very complicated and I feel the need to elaborate @ great length. This may not be the appropriate place for this... but i have to talk to someone. The erythema initially manifested itself as a rash like formation comparable in shape and size to the black bars of pain worn on the cheeks of football/baseball athletes. It was something i noticed approximately when i was 20 or 21 years old. It appeared post daily hygeine (sp?) ( showering) seemed to dissipate throughout the course of the day if not in a matter of minutes later. The red area was warm to the touch like a sunburn and it grew to become a seborheic like rash, a scaly anomaly on my otherwise clear skin. Note that it had yet to spread to my nose. It began to become more pronounced and become more irritated. I tried noritate, pandel, acluve,benzoyl peroxide eythomycine topical, metrogel ( only initially), desowen and different cleansers, betadine, cetaphil, dial, sastid etc. NOTHING SEEMED TO WORK. Thinking back I recall that this was an extremely stressful time for me due to a particularly unhealthy romantic involvement with a seemingly psychotic maladjusted individual. The amount of stress and emotional discomfort i was experiencing was tremendous. At any rate ... more time passed and the topicals seemingly made it worse and the quality of my life evaporated only to be replaced by a misery so deeply rooted yet so misunderstood by my friends and family. Ironically, darkness is almost exclusively personal in that it's not necessarily palpable for others close to you. I felt my will had been broken... and i lost my ability to experience pleasure. This horrendous cutaneous manifestation coupled with my ongoing bipolar illness was a horrible recipe. And none of the doctors dubbed it rosacea. Note that I had no papular or pustule lesions just a bit of teenage acne and blackheads present with oily skin. The next hoorah was laser resurfacing... a solace for my affliction. Pulse dye ( pioneered by candela corp) was the choice of the day, note this was at least 3 years ago. The physician who did it who is the former president of the society for dermatologic surgery did not believe this to be rosacea. He dubbed it irish-anglo plethora. I had at least five treatments which were very trying in that they induced purpura which lasted for up to two weeks and made me look and feel like a leper. In time I saw some results but it seemed that erythema and the redness seemed to dissipate entirely on its own some months later. I mean in that the areas peripheral to the area treated also returned to normal. I was restored. In early February I received a phone call from my psychiatrist indicating that I had an abnormal TSH level ( note that my complection had been restored to its normal appearance for more than a year perhaps two almost)within a week following that call i noticed that my eyelids had become pink. A few days later i noticed a single telangectasia on the bridge of my nose. And a few days later that all too familar butterfly distribution blush had returned. It was subtle but quite apparent to me. I started using betadine ( which had been a favorite of my last dermatologist) and it never occured to me that it could affect my thyroid uptake levels. Naturally subsequent labs and thyroid scans proved negative. Then I obtained ( a month or two removed from the betadine) another abnormal TSH study - 0.09 w/ normal perameters being 0.34 - 4.?? Pretty far off the mark to say the least and more than enough reason for me to blame the hyperthyroidism and excess thyoid hormone for the telangectasia. I even had exophthalmus ( buldging eyes) @ one point. Also, hypetension was discovered when i saw the internist. I am a white male, age 24, 6' 1 " , 185 lbs w/ a blood pressure of 160/100. Totally abnormal. Initially used verapamil ( calcium channel blockers NO GOOD) Then changed to altace... then to inderal and now to inderal and clonidine and hopefully clonidine exclusively. Upon seeing an endocrinologist... my worst fears were confirmed... the subsequent labs and scans proved that the hyperthyroidism had corrected itself. The physician noted that this was common with true thyroiditis. The only thing notable was that my thyroid anti bodies were high. I am also getting other hormonal workups done now to see if anything else might be causing the flushing. On a whim i decided to see a different dermatologist. He seemed very presumptious in that he spent nearly a few minutes with me and initally diagnosed me with rosacea and said i had rhinophyma in that my pores were enlarged. Perhaps I should have told him that my pores looked no different than my father's or my sisters and that they had no rosacea ... also that i seem to have the bad habit of religiously squeezing my nose to rid blackheads etc. When he prescribed renova @ night w/ the metrogel my confidence in him and his opinion vanished as my knowledge of the adversity associated with retinoid topicals was extensive. ping pong. So I go back to the doctor who did the pulse dye for me before and he said he disagrees... he said it doesn't look like rosacea... he sees " REAL rosacea " every day... it must be sun damage... that i have the irish-anglo saxon pallor and it's a combination of heredity and sun damage etc. Yet when i ask if this is potentially the beginning he seems a bit ambiguous. His nurse assistant also denied the rhinophyma bit agreeing with me in that it appears to be a latter stage event. So, I had the problem before I fixed it... within a week's time it relapsed seemingly due to a thyoid problem... the only other thing i can think of is that i was taking lithium carbo around that time as well and it was in my system the first time I had the problem. I have high blood pressure when unmedicated. I have telangectasia and mild edema of the eyelids yet with no pain or discomfort just appearance ( exophthalmus before) and I am at a loss as to what to do. I hold laser resurfacing in the same context of putting a new coat of paint on a piece of rotten siding in that it is just treating the symptomology not the cause. Sleepless nights wondering if its rosacea. I do know that it is flushing based and that when the flushing subsides my skin looks normal. Already contacted people in texas about ETS... thiking about having it done... I read Dr. Nase's comments on it... and frankly I feel the same in that this is something i cannot cope/deal with and I have to take the most aggressive measures possible to annoculate this to seek some form of solace so that my youth may be restored... that I can again enjoy my life without and everlasting thunderstorm above me... anchored to me... raining depravity and doom upon me. Also I've taken a list of psychotropic meds over the past 8 years as long as my arm... lithium and tegretol have some nasty cutaneous effects in the PDR *CHECK IT OUT*, the thyroid, the blood pressure, rosacea??? Any thoughts comments appreciated. Wondering if ETS will work for me thyroid is alright right now... worried about going to far and living uncomfortably for the rest of my life w/ compensatory sweating etc... no interest in lifestyle modification, walking on eggshells dodging flushes and fleaing mirrors like Bela Lugosi. Not interested... I am a hedonist totally. Would be appreciated if I could talk to some of you about ETS ( DR. NASE???? your thoughts please) antihisitmines, clonidine etc. Morosely, WA p.s. since all this began @ 20 yrs of age aren't I too young for rosacea Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 8, 2002 Report Share Posted July 8, 2002 Hi, I am a 24 year old male who is experiencing persistent facial erythema, superficial telangectasia( very subtle)within the blush distribution, and severe telangectasia of the eyelids. My predicament is very complicated and I feel the need to elaborate @ great length. This may not be the appropriate place for this... but i have to talk to someone. The erythema initially manifested itself as a rash like formation comparable in shape and size to the black bars of pain worn on the cheeks of football/baseball athletes. It was something i noticed approximately when i was 20 or 21 years old. It appeared post daily hygeine (sp?) ( showering) seemed to dissipate throughout the course of the day if not in a matter of minutes later. The red area was warm to the touch like a sunburn and it grew to become a seborheic like rash, a scaly anomaly on my otherwise clear skin. Note that it had yet to spread to my nose. It began to become more pronounced and become more irritated. I tried noritate, pandel, acluve,benzoyl peroxide eythomycine topical, metrogel ( only initially), desowen and different cleansers, betadine, cetaphil, dial, sastid etc. NOTHING SEEMED TO WORK. Thinking back I recall that this was an extremely stressful time for me due to a particularly unhealthy romantic involvement with a seemingly psychotic maladjusted individual. The amount of stress and emotional discomfort i was experiencing was tremendous. At any rate ... more time passed and the topicals seemingly made it worse and the quality of my life evaporated only to be replaced by a misery so deeply rooted yet so misunderstood by my friends and family. Ironically, darkness is almost exclusively personal in that it's not necessarily palpable for others close to you. I felt my will had been broken... and i lost my ability to experience pleasure. This horrendous cutaneous manifestation coupled with my ongoing bipolar illness was a horrible recipe. And none of the doctors dubbed it rosacea. Note that I had no papular or pustule lesions just a bit of teenage acne and blackheads present with oily skin. The next hoorah was laser resurfacing... a solace for my affliction. Pulse dye ( pioneered by candela corp) was the choice of the day, note this was at least 3 years ago. The physician who did it who is the former president of the society for dermatologic surgery did not believe this to be rosacea. He dubbed it irish-anglo plethora. I had at least five treatments which were very trying in that they induced purpura which lasted for up to two weeks and made me look and feel like a leper. In time I saw some results but it seemed that erythema and the redness seemed to dissipate entirely on its own some months later. I mean in that the areas peripheral to the area treated also returned to normal. I was restored. In early February I received a phone call from my psychiatrist indicating that I had an abnormal TSH level ( note that my complection had been restored to its normal appearance for more than a year perhaps two almost)within a week following that call i noticed that my eyelids had become pink. A few days later i noticed a single telangectasia on the bridge of my nose. And a few days later that all too familar butterfly distribution blush had returned. It was subtle but quite apparent to me. I started using betadine ( which had been a favorite of my last dermatologist) and it never occured to me that it could affect my thyroid uptake levels. Naturally subsequent labs and thyroid scans proved negative. Then I obtained ( a month or two removed from the betadine) another abnormal TSH study - 0.09 w/ normal perameters being 0.34 - 4.?? Pretty far off the mark to say the least and more than enough reason for me to blame the hyperthyroidism and excess thyoid hormone for the telangectasia. I even had exophthalmus ( buldging eyes) @ one point. Also, hypetension was discovered when i saw the internist. I am a white male, age 24, 6' 1 " , 185 lbs w/ a blood pressure of 160/100. Totally abnormal. Initially used verapamil ( calcium channel blockers NO GOOD) Then changed to altace... then to inderal and now to inderal and clonidine and hopefully clonidine exclusively. Upon seeing an endocrinologist... my worst fears were confirmed... the subsequent labs and scans proved that the hyperthyroidism had corrected itself. The physician noted that this was common with true thyroiditis. The only thing notable was that my thyroid anti bodies were high. I am also getting other hormonal workups done now to see if anything else might be causing the flushing. On a whim i decided to see a different dermatologist. He seemed very presumptious in that he spent nearly a few minutes with me and initally diagnosed me with rosacea and said i had rhinophyma in that my pores were enlarged. Perhaps I should have told him that my pores looked no different than my father's or my sisters and that they had no rosacea ... also that i seem to have the bad habit of religiously squeezing my nose to rid blackheads etc. When he prescribed renova @ night w/ the metrogel my confidence in him and his opinion vanished as my knowledge of the adversity associated with retinoid topicals was extensive. ping pong. So I go back to the doctor who did the pulse dye for me before and he said he disagrees... he said it doesn't look like rosacea... he sees " REAL rosacea " every day... it must be sun damage... that i have the irish-anglo saxon pallor and it's a combination of heredity and sun damage etc. Yet when i ask if this is potentially the beginning he seems a bit ambiguous. His nurse assistant also denied the rhinophyma bit agreeing with me in that it appears to be a latter stage event. So, I had the problem before I fixed it... within a week's time it relapsed seemingly due to a thyoid problem... the only other thing i can think of is that i was taking lithium carbo around that time as well and it was in my system the first time I had the problem. I have high blood pressure when unmedicated. I have telangectasia and mild edema of the eyelids yet with no pain or discomfort just appearance ( exophthalmus before) and I am at a loss as to what to do. I hold laser resurfacing in the same context of putting a new coat of paint on a piece of rotten siding in that it is just treating the symptomology not the cause. Sleepless nights wondering if its rosacea. I do know that it is flushing based and that when the flushing subsides my skin looks normal. Already contacted people in texas about ETS... thiking about having it done... I read Dr. Nase's comments on it... and frankly I feel the same in that this is something i cannot cope/deal with and I have to take the most aggressive measures possible to annoculate this to seek some form of solace so that my youth may be restored... that I can again enjoy my life without and everlasting thunderstorm above me... anchored to me... raining depravity and doom upon me. Also I've taken a list of psychotropic meds over the past 8 years as long as my arm... lithium and tegretol have some nasty cutaneous effects in the PDR *CHECK IT OUT*, the thyroid, the blood pressure, rosacea??? Any thoughts comments appreciated. Wondering if ETS will work for me thyroid is alright right now... worried about going to far and living uncomfortably for the rest of my life w/ compensatory sweating etc... no interest in lifestyle modification, walking on eggshells dodging flushes and fleaing mirrors like Bela Lugosi. Not interested... I am a hedonist totally. Would be appreciated if I could talk to some of you about ETS ( DR. NASE???? your thoughts please) antihisitmines, clonidine etc. Morosely, WA p.s. since all this began @ 20 yrs of age aren't I too young for rosacea Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 8, 2002 Report Share Posted July 8, 2002 WA, there is a well documented association between lithium and a number of thyroid disorders, including thyroiditis and autoimmune antibiodies. Lithium also causes skin rashes, as does Tegretol (including erythematous rashes), and exacerbate subclinical conditions. Sounds like you have an appreciation how many factors are at play in your situation. My strong recommendation is that you obtain a proper diagnosis on your skin condition(s) -- there may be more than one -- before you undertake more procedures, esp something as potentially dangerous as ETS. If you're near a university medical center, there may be someone on staff in their dermatology department with an interest in psychodermatology. But an appointment with any academic staff or fellow dermatologist will usually get you referred to the right people. An excellent if not better alternative is to see an academic internist (a physician who works in, or is in training at, a university medical center, as opposed to a private practitioner who has admitting privileges or is " on staff " ). Internists are the diagnositicians for conditions and interactions that involve multiple internal medicine specialties, and that's what you need. Feel free to post (please, not email) if you have difficulty locating a good medical center in your area. Good luck, and keep us posted whatever you decide to do. Marjorie Marjorie Lazoff, MD > Hi, > > I am a 24 year old male who is experiencing persistent facial > erythema, superficial telangectasia( very subtle)within the blush > distribution, and severe telangectasia of the eyelids. My > predicament is very complicated and I feel the need to elaborate @ > great length. This may not be the appropriate place for this... but > i have to talk to someone. > > The erythema initially manifested itself as a rash like formation > comparable in shape and size to the black bars of pain worn on the > cheeks of football/baseball athletes. It was something i noticed > approximately when i was 20 or 21 years old. It appeared post daily > hygeine (sp?) ( showering) seemed to dissipate throughout the course > of the day if not in a matter of minutes later. The red area was > warm to the touch like a sunburn and it grew to become a seborheic > like rash, a scaly anomaly on my otherwise clear skin. Note that it > had yet to spread to my nose. It began to become more pronounced and > become more irritated. I tried noritate, pandel, acluve,benzoyl > peroxide eythomycine topical, metrogel ( only initially), desowen > and different cleansers, betadine, cetaphil, dial, sastid etc. > NOTHING SEEMED TO WORK. Thinking back I recall that this was an > extremely stressful time for me due to a particularly unhealthy > romantic involvement with a seemingly psychotic maladjusted > individual. The amount of stress and emotional discomfort i was > experiencing was tremendous. > > At any rate ... more time passed and the topicals seemingly made it > worse and the quality of my life evaporated only to be replaced by a > misery so deeply rooted yet so misunderstood by my friends and > family. Ironically, darkness is almost exclusively personal in that > it's not necessarily palpable for others close to you. I felt my > will had been broken... and i lost my ability to experience > pleasure. This horrendous cutaneous manifestation coupled with my > ongoing bipolar illness was a horrible recipe. And none of the > doctors dubbed it rosacea. Note that I had no papular or pustule > lesions just a bit of teenage acne and blackheads present with oily > skin. > > The next hoorah was laser resurfacing... a solace for my > affliction. Pulse dye ( pioneered by candela corp) was the choice of > the day, note this was at least 3 years ago. The physician who did > it who is the former president of the society for dermatologic > surgery did not believe this to be rosacea. He dubbed it irish- anglo > plethora. I had at least five treatments which were very trying in > that they induced purpura which lasted for up to two weeks and made > me look and feel like a leper. In time I saw some results but it > seemed that erythema and the redness seemed to dissipate entirely on > its own some months later. I mean in that the areas peripheral to > the area treated also returned to normal. I was restored. > > In early February I received a phone call from my psychiatrist > indicating that I had an abnormal TSH level ( note that my > complection had been restored to its normal appearance for more than > a year perhaps two almost)within a week following that call i > noticed that my eyelids had become pink. A few days later i noticed > a single telangectasia on the bridge of my nose. And a few days > later that all too familar butterfly distribution blush had > returned. It was subtle but quite apparent to me. I started using > betadine ( which had been a favorite of my last dermatologist) and > it never occured to me that it could affect my thyroid uptake > levels. Naturally subsequent labs and thyroid scans proved negative. > Then I obtained ( a month or two removed from the betadine) another > abnormal TSH study - 0.09 w/ normal perameters being 0.34 - 4.?? > Pretty far off the mark to say the least and more than enough reason > for me to blame the hyperthyroidism and excess thyoid hormone for > the telangectasia. I even had exophthalmus ( buldging eyes) @ one > point. Also, hypetension was discovered when i saw the internist. I > am a white male, age 24, 6' 1 " , 185 lbs w/ a blood pressure of > 160/100. Totally abnormal. Initially used verapamil ( calcium > channel blockers NO GOOD) Then changed to altace... then to inderal > and now to inderal and clonidine and hopefully clonidine exclusively. > > Upon seeing an endocrinologist... my worst fears were confirmed... > the subsequent labs and scans proved that the hyperthyroidism had > corrected itself. The physician noted that this was common with true > thyroiditis. The only thing notable was that my thyroid anti bodies > were high. I am also getting other hormonal workups done now to see > if anything else might be causing the flushing. > > On a whim i decided to see a different dermatologist. He seemed > very presumptious in that he spent nearly a few minutes with me and > initally diagnosed me with rosacea and said i had rhinophyma in that > my pores were enlarged. Perhaps I should have told him that my pores > looked no different than my father's or my sisters and that they had > no rosacea ... also that i seem to have the bad habit of religiously > squeezing my nose to rid blackheads etc. When he prescribed renova @ > night w/ the metrogel my confidence in him and his opinion vanished > as my knowledge of the adversity associated with retinoid topicals > was extensive. > > ping pong. So I go back to the doctor who did the pulse dye for me > before and he said he disagrees... he said it doesn't look like > rosacea... he sees " REAL rosacea " every day... it must be sun > damage... that i have the irish-anglo saxon pallor and it's a > combination of heredity and sun damage etc. Yet when i ask if this > is potentially the beginning he seems a bit ambiguous. His nurse > assistant also denied the rhinophyma bit agreeing with me in that it > appears to be a latter stage event. > > So, I had the problem before I fixed it... within a week's time it > relapsed seemingly due to a thyoid problem... the only other thing i > can think of is that i was taking lithium carbo around that time as > well and it was in my system the first time I had the problem. I > have high blood pressure when unmedicated. I have telangectasia and > mild edema of the eyelids yet with no pain or discomfort just > appearance ( exophthalmus before) and I am at a loss as to what to > do. > > I hold laser resurfacing in the same context of putting a new coat > of paint on a piece of rotten siding in that it is just treating the > symptomology not the cause. Sleepless nights wondering if its > rosacea. I do know that it is flushing based and that when the > flushing subsides my skin looks normal. > > Already contacted people in texas about ETS... thiking about > having it done... I read Dr. Nase's comments on it... and frankly I > feel the same in that this is something i cannot cope/deal with and > I have to take the most aggressive measures possible to annoculate > this to seek some form of solace so that my youth may be restored... > that I can again enjoy my life without and everlasting thunderstorm > above me... anchored to me... raining depravity and doom upon me. > > Also I've taken a list of psychotropic meds over the past 8 years > as long as my arm... lithium and tegretol have some nasty cutaneous > effects in the PDR *CHECK IT OUT*, the thyroid, the blood pressure, > rosacea??? > > Any thoughts comments appreciated. Wondering if ETS will work for me > thyroid is alright right now... worried about going to far and > living uncomfortably for the rest of my life w/ compensatory > sweating etc... > > no interest in lifestyle modification, walking on eggshells dodging > flushes and fleaing mirrors like Bela Lugosi. Not interested... I am > a hedonist totally. > > Would be appreciated if I could talk to some of you about ETS ( DR. > NASE???? your thoughts please) antihisitmines, clonidine etc. > > Morosely, > WA > > p.s. since all this began @ 20 yrs of age aren't I too young for > rosacea Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 8, 2002 Report Share Posted July 8, 2002 WA, there is a well documented association between lithium and a number of thyroid disorders, including thyroiditis and autoimmune antibiodies. Lithium also causes skin rashes, as does Tegretol (including erythematous rashes), and exacerbate subclinical conditions. Sounds like you have an appreciation how many factors are at play in your situation. My strong recommendation is that you obtain a proper diagnosis on your skin condition(s) -- there may be more than one -- before you undertake more procedures, esp something as potentially dangerous as ETS. If you're near a university medical center, there may be someone on staff in their dermatology department with an interest in psychodermatology. But an appointment with any academic staff or fellow dermatologist will usually get you referred to the right people. An excellent if not better alternative is to see an academic internist (a physician who works in, or is in training at, a university medical center, as opposed to a private practitioner who has admitting privileges or is " on staff " ). Internists are the diagnositicians for conditions and interactions that involve multiple internal medicine specialties, and that's what you need. Feel free to post (please, not email) if you have difficulty locating a good medical center in your area. Good luck, and keep us posted whatever you decide to do. Marjorie Marjorie Lazoff, MD > Hi, > > I am a 24 year old male who is experiencing persistent facial > erythema, superficial telangectasia( very subtle)within the blush > distribution, and severe telangectasia of the eyelids. My > predicament is very complicated and I feel the need to elaborate @ > great length. This may not be the appropriate place for this... but > i have to talk to someone. > > The erythema initially manifested itself as a rash like formation > comparable in shape and size to the black bars of pain worn on the > cheeks of football/baseball athletes. It was something i noticed > approximately when i was 20 or 21 years old. It appeared post daily > hygeine (sp?) ( showering) seemed to dissipate throughout the course > of the day if not in a matter of minutes later. The red area was > warm to the touch like a sunburn and it grew to become a seborheic > like rash, a scaly anomaly on my otherwise clear skin. Note that it > had yet to spread to my nose. It began to become more pronounced and > become more irritated. I tried noritate, pandel, acluve,benzoyl > peroxide eythomycine topical, metrogel ( only initially), desowen > and different cleansers, betadine, cetaphil, dial, sastid etc. > NOTHING SEEMED TO WORK. Thinking back I recall that this was an > extremely stressful time for me due to a particularly unhealthy > romantic involvement with a seemingly psychotic maladjusted > individual. The amount of stress and emotional discomfort i was > experiencing was tremendous. > > At any rate ... more time passed and the topicals seemingly made it > worse and the quality of my life evaporated only to be replaced by a > misery so deeply rooted yet so misunderstood by my friends and > family. Ironically, darkness is almost exclusively personal in that > it's not necessarily palpable for others close to you. I felt my > will had been broken... and i lost my ability to experience > pleasure. This horrendous cutaneous manifestation coupled with my > ongoing bipolar illness was a horrible recipe. And none of the > doctors dubbed it rosacea. Note that I had no papular or pustule > lesions just a bit of teenage acne and blackheads present with oily > skin. > > The next hoorah was laser resurfacing... a solace for my > affliction. Pulse dye ( pioneered by candela corp) was the choice of > the day, note this was at least 3 years ago. The physician who did > it who is the former president of the society for dermatologic > surgery did not believe this to be rosacea. He dubbed it irish- anglo > plethora. I had at least five treatments which were very trying in > that they induced purpura which lasted for up to two weeks and made > me look and feel like a leper. In time I saw some results but it > seemed that erythema and the redness seemed to dissipate entirely on > its own some months later. I mean in that the areas peripheral to > the area treated also returned to normal. I was restored. > > In early February I received a phone call from my psychiatrist > indicating that I had an abnormal TSH level ( note that my > complection had been restored to its normal appearance for more than > a year perhaps two almost)within a week following that call i > noticed that my eyelids had become pink. A few days later i noticed > a single telangectasia on the bridge of my nose. And a few days > later that all too familar butterfly distribution blush had > returned. It was subtle but quite apparent to me. I started using > betadine ( which had been a favorite of my last dermatologist) and > it never occured to me that it could affect my thyroid uptake > levels. Naturally subsequent labs and thyroid scans proved negative. > Then I obtained ( a month or two removed from the betadine) another > abnormal TSH study - 0.09 w/ normal perameters being 0.34 - 4.?? > Pretty far off the mark to say the least and more than enough reason > for me to blame the hyperthyroidism and excess thyoid hormone for > the telangectasia. I even had exophthalmus ( buldging eyes) @ one > point. Also, hypetension was discovered when i saw the internist. I > am a white male, age 24, 6' 1 " , 185 lbs w/ a blood pressure of > 160/100. Totally abnormal. Initially used verapamil ( calcium > channel blockers NO GOOD) Then changed to altace... then to inderal > and now to inderal and clonidine and hopefully clonidine exclusively. > > Upon seeing an endocrinologist... my worst fears were confirmed... > the subsequent labs and scans proved that the hyperthyroidism had > corrected itself. The physician noted that this was common with true > thyroiditis. The only thing notable was that my thyroid anti bodies > were high. I am also getting other hormonal workups done now to see > if anything else might be causing the flushing. > > On a whim i decided to see a different dermatologist. He seemed > very presumptious in that he spent nearly a few minutes with me and > initally diagnosed me with rosacea and said i had rhinophyma in that > my pores were enlarged. Perhaps I should have told him that my pores > looked no different than my father's or my sisters and that they had > no rosacea ... also that i seem to have the bad habit of religiously > squeezing my nose to rid blackheads etc. When he prescribed renova @ > night w/ the metrogel my confidence in him and his opinion vanished > as my knowledge of the adversity associated with retinoid topicals > was extensive. > > ping pong. So I go back to the doctor who did the pulse dye for me > before and he said he disagrees... he said it doesn't look like > rosacea... he sees " REAL rosacea " every day... it must be sun > damage... that i have the irish-anglo saxon pallor and it's a > combination of heredity and sun damage etc. Yet when i ask if this > is potentially the beginning he seems a bit ambiguous. His nurse > assistant also denied the rhinophyma bit agreeing with me in that it > appears to be a latter stage event. > > So, I had the problem before I fixed it... within a week's time it > relapsed seemingly due to a thyoid problem... the only other thing i > can think of is that i was taking lithium carbo around that time as > well and it was in my system the first time I had the problem. I > have high blood pressure when unmedicated. I have telangectasia and > mild edema of the eyelids yet with no pain or discomfort just > appearance ( exophthalmus before) and I am at a loss as to what to > do. > > I hold laser resurfacing in the same context of putting a new coat > of paint on a piece of rotten siding in that it is just treating the > symptomology not the cause. Sleepless nights wondering if its > rosacea. I do know that it is flushing based and that when the > flushing subsides my skin looks normal. > > Already contacted people in texas about ETS... thiking about > having it done... I read Dr. Nase's comments on it... and frankly I > feel the same in that this is something i cannot cope/deal with and > I have to take the most aggressive measures possible to annoculate > this to seek some form of solace so that my youth may be restored... > that I can again enjoy my life without and everlasting thunderstorm > above me... anchored to me... raining depravity and doom upon me. > > Also I've taken a list of psychotropic meds over the past 8 years > as long as my arm... lithium and tegretol have some nasty cutaneous > effects in the PDR *CHECK IT OUT*, the thyroid, the blood pressure, > rosacea??? > > Any thoughts comments appreciated. Wondering if ETS will work for me > thyroid is alright right now... worried about going to far and > living uncomfortably for the rest of my life w/ compensatory > sweating etc... > > no interest in lifestyle modification, walking on eggshells dodging > flushes and fleaing mirrors like Bela Lugosi. Not interested... I am > a hedonist totally. > > Would be appreciated if I could talk to some of you about ETS ( DR. > NASE???? your thoughts please) antihisitmines, clonidine etc. > > Morosely, > WA > > p.s. since all this began @ 20 yrs of age aren't I too young for > rosacea Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 8, 2002 Report Share Posted July 8, 2002 hi, i wish i could say more about ETS but i don't know anything about it. i wanted to comment about your situation though. i too have now been thought not to have rosacea as the primary cause of the severe, rapid intermittent flushing and rash i get. it seems to happen every few months and appears almost over night as a painful red rash over my face and also severe swelling. the pain and burning is incredible, so much so i can not sleep or eat. even vicodin does not touch it. this last episode drove me to several emergency appointments with dermatologists, Minor Injury/Urgent Care, and finally an ambulance ride to the ER. i hadn't eaten in 6 days and finally threw up and passed out. my heart rate was up in the 130's. but the weirdest thing was that my jaw completely locked on the way to the hospital. they couldn't get my mouth opened until a few hours later after 2 demerol shots and some valium. personally i think the two may be unrelated. i have Generalized Dystonia which can affect the muscles in my face, or any muscle it chooses. the spasms in my legs were already acting up because i hadn't eaten in so long, and from the stress of the pain i had. what scared me more was how painful the rash was. even when the poor nurse messed up a little with taking out the IV and blood got all over, it was absolutely nothing compared to the pain on my face. one thing i have noticed with 2 out of the 3 times this has happened to me, is that is eventually resolves with the start and end of a menstrual period. i do have " undiagnosed " PCOS (because i am not overweight...125 pounds at 5' 8 " ) and don't normally get periods. my hormone levels as of a couple years ago were over 3 times normal for a woman. i had an MRI done to look for an androgen secreting tumor, but none was found. only what they called " insignificant ovarian cysts " . i've used Aldactone in high doses for years now, but the general care doctor hasn't followed up on me for over a year, and didn't refer me to an endocrinologist. Because Aldactone has controlled most problems for me i've never bothered fighting it. i also do not have an OBGYN either. i'm having a patch test done soon, Lupus tests came back negative twice now. i had my thyroid checked, but i haven't heard anything from the hospital about it. thats not unusual....usually i have to ask them what the results were, so i don't know if that play a part in it like yours does. so i'm now wondering if there is a connection between hormones and whatever is happening to me. i've heard you can be allergic to your own hormones. does anyone know how they test for that??????? i took Benadryl at the start of this last crisis, but it did not work. i wonder if that automatically rules out an allergy. Angie On Mon, 08 Jul 2002 10:09:23 -0000 " j_5ive1313 " writes: > Hi, > > I am a 24 year old male who is experiencing persistent facial > erythema, superficial telangectasia( very subtle)within the blush > distribution, and severe telangectasia of the eyelids. My > predicament is very complicated and I feel the need to elaborate @ > great length. This may not be the appropriate place for this... but > i have to talk to someone. > > The erythema initially manifested itself as a rash like formation > > comparable in shape and size to the black bars of pain worn on the > cheeks of football/baseball athletes. It was something i noticed > approximately when i was 20 or 21 years old. It appeared post daily > hygeine (sp?) ( showering) seemed to dissipate throughout the course > > of the day if not in a matter of minutes later. The red area was > warm to the touch like a sunburn and it grew to become a seborheic > like rash, a scaly anomaly on my otherwise clear skin. Note that it > had yet to spread to my nose. It began to become more pronounced and > > become more irritated. I tried noritate, pandel, acluve,benzoyl > peroxide eythomycine topical, metrogel ( only initially), desowen > and different cleansers, betadine, cetaphil, dial, sastid etc. > NOTHING SEEMED TO WORK. Thinking back I recall that this was an > extremely stressful time for me due to a particularly unhealthy > romantic involvement with a seemingly psychotic maladjusted > individual. The amount of stress and emotional discomfort i was > experiencing was tremendous. > > At any rate ... more time passed and the topicals seemingly made it > > worse and the quality of my life evaporated only to be replaced by a > > misery so deeply rooted yet so misunderstood by my friends and > family. Ironically, darkness is almost exclusively personal in that > it's not necessarily palpable for others close to you. I felt my > will had been broken... and i lost my ability to experience > pleasure. This horrendous cutaneous manifestation coupled with my > ongoing bipolar illness was a horrible recipe. And none of the > doctors dubbed it rosacea. Note that I had no papular or pustule > lesions just a bit of teenage acne and blackheads present with oily > skin. > > The next hoorah was laser resurfacing... a solace for my > affliction. Pulse dye ( pioneered by candela corp) was the choice of > > the day, note this was at least 3 years ago. The physician who did > it who is the former president of the society for dermatologic > surgery did not believe this to be rosacea. He dubbed it irish-anglo > > plethora. I had at least five treatments which were very trying in > that they induced purpura which lasted for up to two weeks and made > me look and feel like a leper. In time I saw some results but it > seemed that erythema and the redness seemed to dissipate entirely on > > its own some months later. I mean in that the areas peripheral to > the area treated also returned to normal. I was restored. > > In early February I received a phone call from my psychiatrist > indicating that I had an abnormal TSH level ( note that my > complection had been restored to its normal appearance for more than > > a year perhaps two almost)within a week following that call i > noticed that my eyelids had become pink. A few days later i noticed > a single telangectasia on the bridge of my nose. And a few days > later that all too familar butterfly distribution blush had > returned. It was subtle but quite apparent to me. I started using > betadine ( which had been a favorite of my last dermatologist) and > it never occured to me that it could affect my thyroid uptake > levels. Naturally subsequent labs and thyroid scans proved negative. > > Then I obtained ( a month or two removed from the betadine) another > abnormal TSH study - 0.09 w/ normal perameters being 0.34 - 4.?? > Pretty far off the mark to say the least and more than enough reason > > for me to blame the hyperthyroidism and excess thyoid hormone for > the telangectasia. I even had exophthalmus ( buldging eyes) @ one > point. Also, hypetension was discovered when i saw the internist. I > am a white male, age 24, 6' 1 " , 185 lbs w/ a blood pressure of > 160/100. Totally abnormal. Initially used verapamil ( calcium > channel blockers NO GOOD) Then changed to altace... then to inderal > and now to inderal and clonidine and hopefully clonidine > exclusively. > > Upon seeing an endocrinologist... my worst fears were confirmed... > the subsequent labs and scans proved that the hyperthyroidism had > corrected itself. The physician noted that this was common with true > > thyroiditis. The only thing notable was that my thyroid anti bodies > were high. I am also getting other hormonal workups done now to see > if anything else might be causing the flushing. > > On a whim i decided to see a different dermatologist. He seemed > very presumptious in that he spent nearly a few minutes with me and > initally diagnosed me with rosacea and said i had rhinophyma in that > > my pores were enlarged. Perhaps I should have told him that my pores > > looked no different than my father's or my sisters and that they had > > no rosacea ... also that i seem to have the bad habit of religiously > > squeezing my nose to rid blackheads etc. When he prescribed renova @ > > night w/ the metrogel my confidence in him and his opinion vanished > as my knowledge of the adversity associated with retinoid topicals > was extensive. > > ping pong. So I go back to the doctor who did the pulse dye for me > before and he said he disagrees... he said it doesn't look like > rosacea... he sees " REAL rosacea " every day... it must be sun > damage... that i have the irish-anglo saxon pallor and it's a > combination of heredity and sun damage etc. Yet when i ask if this > is potentially the beginning he seems a bit ambiguous. His nurse > assistant also denied the rhinophyma bit agreeing with me in that it > > appears to be a latter stage event. > > So, I had the problem before I fixed it... within a week's time it > > relapsed seemingly due to a thyoid problem... the only other thing i > > can think of is that i was taking lithium carbo around that time as > well and it was in my system the first time I had the problem. I > have high blood pressure when unmedicated. I have telangectasia and > mild edema of the eyelids yet with no pain or discomfort just > appearance ( exophthalmus before) and I am at a loss as to what to > do. > > I hold laser resurfacing in the same context of putting a new coat > of paint on a piece of rotten siding in that it is just treating the > > symptomology not the cause. Sleepless nights wondering if its > rosacea. I do know that it is flushing based and that when the > flushing subsides my skin looks normal. > > Already contacted people in texas about ETS... thiking about > having it done... I read Dr. Nase's comments on it... and frankly I > feel the same in that this is something i cannot cope/deal with and > I have to take the most aggressive measures possible to annoculate > this to seek some form of solace so that my youth may be restored... > > that I can again enjoy my life without and everlasting thunderstorm > above me... anchored to me... raining depravity and doom upon me. > > Also I've taken a list of psychotropic meds over the past 8 years > > as long as my arm... lithium and tegretol have some nasty cutaneous > effects in the PDR *CHECK IT OUT*, the thyroid, the blood pressure, > rosacea??? > > Any thoughts comments appreciated. Wondering if ETS will work for me > > thyroid is alright right now... worried about going to far and > living uncomfortably for the rest of my life w/ compensatory > sweating etc... > > no interest in lifestyle modification, walking on eggshells dodging > > flushes and fleaing mirrors like Bela Lugosi. Not interested... I am > > a hedonist totally. > > Would be appreciated if I could talk to some of you about ETS ( DR. > > NASE???? your thoughts please) antihisitmines, clonidine etc. > > Morosely, > WA > > p.s. since all this began @ 20 yrs of age aren't I too young for > rosacea > > > > -- > Please read the list highlights before posting to the whole group > (http://rosacea.ii.net/toc.html). Your post will be delayed if you > don't give a meaningful subject or trim your reply text. You must > change the subject when replying to a digest ! > > See http://www.drnase.com for info on his recently published book. > > To leave the list send an email to > rosacea-support-unsubscribe > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 8, 2002 Report Share Posted July 8, 2002 hi, i wish i could say more about ETS but i don't know anything about it. i wanted to comment about your situation though. i too have now been thought not to have rosacea as the primary cause of the severe, rapid intermittent flushing and rash i get. it seems to happen every few months and appears almost over night as a painful red rash over my face and also severe swelling. the pain and burning is incredible, so much so i can not sleep or eat. even vicodin does not touch it. this last episode drove me to several emergency appointments with dermatologists, Minor Injury/Urgent Care, and finally an ambulance ride to the ER. i hadn't eaten in 6 days and finally threw up and passed out. my heart rate was up in the 130's. but the weirdest thing was that my jaw completely locked on the way to the hospital. they couldn't get my mouth opened until a few hours later after 2 demerol shots and some valium. personally i think the two may be unrelated. i have Generalized Dystonia which can affect the muscles in my face, or any muscle it chooses. the spasms in my legs were already acting up because i hadn't eaten in so long, and from the stress of the pain i had. what scared me more was how painful the rash was. even when the poor nurse messed up a little with taking out the IV and blood got all over, it was absolutely nothing compared to the pain on my face. one thing i have noticed with 2 out of the 3 times this has happened to me, is that is eventually resolves with the start and end of a menstrual period. i do have " undiagnosed " PCOS (because i am not overweight...125 pounds at 5' 8 " ) and don't normally get periods. my hormone levels as of a couple years ago were over 3 times normal for a woman. i had an MRI done to look for an androgen secreting tumor, but none was found. only what they called " insignificant ovarian cysts " . i've used Aldactone in high doses for years now, but the general care doctor hasn't followed up on me for over a year, and didn't refer me to an endocrinologist. Because Aldactone has controlled most problems for me i've never bothered fighting it. i also do not have an OBGYN either. i'm having a patch test done soon, Lupus tests came back negative twice now. i had my thyroid checked, but i haven't heard anything from the hospital about it. thats not unusual....usually i have to ask them what the results were, so i don't know if that play a part in it like yours does. so i'm now wondering if there is a connection between hormones and whatever is happening to me. i've heard you can be allergic to your own hormones. does anyone know how they test for that??????? i took Benadryl at the start of this last crisis, but it did not work. i wonder if that automatically rules out an allergy. Angie On Mon, 08 Jul 2002 10:09:23 -0000 " j_5ive1313 " writes: > Hi, > > I am a 24 year old male who is experiencing persistent facial > erythema, superficial telangectasia( very subtle)within the blush > distribution, and severe telangectasia of the eyelids. My > predicament is very complicated and I feel the need to elaborate @ > great length. This may not be the appropriate place for this... but > i have to talk to someone. > > The erythema initially manifested itself as a rash like formation > > comparable in shape and size to the black bars of pain worn on the > cheeks of football/baseball athletes. It was something i noticed > approximately when i was 20 or 21 years old. It appeared post daily > hygeine (sp?) ( showering) seemed to dissipate throughout the course > > of the day if not in a matter of minutes later. The red area was > warm to the touch like a sunburn and it grew to become a seborheic > like rash, a scaly anomaly on my otherwise clear skin. Note that it > had yet to spread to my nose. It began to become more pronounced and > > become more irritated. I tried noritate, pandel, acluve,benzoyl > peroxide eythomycine topical, metrogel ( only initially), desowen > and different cleansers, betadine, cetaphil, dial, sastid etc. > NOTHING SEEMED TO WORK. Thinking back I recall that this was an > extremely stressful time for me due to a particularly unhealthy > romantic involvement with a seemingly psychotic maladjusted > individual. The amount of stress and emotional discomfort i was > experiencing was tremendous. > > At any rate ... more time passed and the topicals seemingly made it > > worse and the quality of my life evaporated only to be replaced by a > > misery so deeply rooted yet so misunderstood by my friends and > family. Ironically, darkness is almost exclusively personal in that > it's not necessarily palpable for others close to you. I felt my > will had been broken... and i lost my ability to experience > pleasure. This horrendous cutaneous manifestation coupled with my > ongoing bipolar illness was a horrible recipe. And none of the > doctors dubbed it rosacea. Note that I had no papular or pustule > lesions just a bit of teenage acne and blackheads present with oily > skin. > > The next hoorah was laser resurfacing... a solace for my > affliction. Pulse dye ( pioneered by candela corp) was the choice of > > the day, note this was at least 3 years ago. The physician who did > it who is the former president of the society for dermatologic > surgery did not believe this to be rosacea. He dubbed it irish-anglo > > plethora. I had at least five treatments which were very trying in > that they induced purpura which lasted for up to two weeks and made > me look and feel like a leper. In time I saw some results but it > seemed that erythema and the redness seemed to dissipate entirely on > > its own some months later. I mean in that the areas peripheral to > the area treated also returned to normal. I was restored. > > In early February I received a phone call from my psychiatrist > indicating that I had an abnormal TSH level ( note that my > complection had been restored to its normal appearance for more than > > a year perhaps two almost)within a week following that call i > noticed that my eyelids had become pink. A few days later i noticed > a single telangectasia on the bridge of my nose. And a few days > later that all too familar butterfly distribution blush had > returned. It was subtle but quite apparent to me. I started using > betadine ( which had been a favorite of my last dermatologist) and > it never occured to me that it could affect my thyroid uptake > levels. Naturally subsequent labs and thyroid scans proved negative. > > Then I obtained ( a month or two removed from the betadine) another > abnormal TSH study - 0.09 w/ normal perameters being 0.34 - 4.?? > Pretty far off the mark to say the least and more than enough reason > > for me to blame the hyperthyroidism and excess thyoid hormone for > the telangectasia. I even had exophthalmus ( buldging eyes) @ one > point. Also, hypetension was discovered when i saw the internist. I > am a white male, age 24, 6' 1 " , 185 lbs w/ a blood pressure of > 160/100. Totally abnormal. Initially used verapamil ( calcium > channel blockers NO GOOD) Then changed to altace... then to inderal > and now to inderal and clonidine and hopefully clonidine > exclusively. > > Upon seeing an endocrinologist... my worst fears were confirmed... > the subsequent labs and scans proved that the hyperthyroidism had > corrected itself. The physician noted that this was common with true > > thyroiditis. The only thing notable was that my thyroid anti bodies > were high. I am also getting other hormonal workups done now to see > if anything else might be causing the flushing. > > On a whim i decided to see a different dermatologist. He seemed > very presumptious in that he spent nearly a few minutes with me and > initally diagnosed me with rosacea and said i had rhinophyma in that > > my pores were enlarged. Perhaps I should have told him that my pores > > looked no different than my father's or my sisters and that they had > > no rosacea ... also that i seem to have the bad habit of religiously > > squeezing my nose to rid blackheads etc. When he prescribed renova @ > > night w/ the metrogel my confidence in him and his opinion vanished > as my knowledge of the adversity associated with retinoid topicals > was extensive. > > ping pong. So I go back to the doctor who did the pulse dye for me > before and he said he disagrees... he said it doesn't look like > rosacea... he sees " REAL rosacea " every day... it must be sun > damage... that i have the irish-anglo saxon pallor and it's a > combination of heredity and sun damage etc. Yet when i ask if this > is potentially the beginning he seems a bit ambiguous. His nurse > assistant also denied the rhinophyma bit agreeing with me in that it > > appears to be a latter stage event. > > So, I had the problem before I fixed it... within a week's time it > > relapsed seemingly due to a thyoid problem... the only other thing i > > can think of is that i was taking lithium carbo around that time as > well and it was in my system the first time I had the problem. I > have high blood pressure when unmedicated. I have telangectasia and > mild edema of the eyelids yet with no pain or discomfort just > appearance ( exophthalmus before) and I am at a loss as to what to > do. > > I hold laser resurfacing in the same context of putting a new coat > of paint on a piece of rotten siding in that it is just treating the > > symptomology not the cause. Sleepless nights wondering if its > rosacea. I do know that it is flushing based and that when the > flushing subsides my skin looks normal. > > Already contacted people in texas about ETS... thiking about > having it done... I read Dr. Nase's comments on it... and frankly I > feel the same in that this is something i cannot cope/deal with and > I have to take the most aggressive measures possible to annoculate > this to seek some form of solace so that my youth may be restored... > > that I can again enjoy my life without and everlasting thunderstorm > above me... anchored to me... raining depravity and doom upon me. > > Also I've taken a list of psychotropic meds over the past 8 years > > as long as my arm... lithium and tegretol have some nasty cutaneous > effects in the PDR *CHECK IT OUT*, the thyroid, the blood pressure, > rosacea??? > > Any thoughts comments appreciated. Wondering if ETS will work for me > > thyroid is alright right now... worried about going to far and > living uncomfortably for the rest of my life w/ compensatory > sweating etc... > > no interest in lifestyle modification, walking on eggshells dodging > > flushes and fleaing mirrors like Bela Lugosi. Not interested... I am > > a hedonist totally. > > Would be appreciated if I could talk to some of you about ETS ( DR. > > NASE???? your thoughts please) antihisitmines, clonidine etc. > > Morosely, > WA > > p.s. since all this began @ 20 yrs of age aren't I too young for > rosacea > > > > -- > Please read the list highlights before posting to the whole group > (http://rosacea.ii.net/toc.html). Your post will be delayed if you > don't give a meaningful subject or trim your reply text. You must > change the subject when replying to a digest ! > > See http://www.drnase.com for info on his recently published book. > > To leave the list send an email to > rosacea-support-unsubscribe > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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