Guest guest Posted July 18, 2002 Report Share Posted July 18, 2002 Thanks Marjorie! I have to say, I wish this post was one of the first things I read after being diagnosed with cea. The food issue always confuses me. This makes sense! Can we place it in the highlights section of the website? One question though - what about caffeine? Michele --- emarjency wrote: > , here's a copy & paste on some dietary and > non-dietary > information I posted on June 11th to the group. I > prefaced these > comments with a disclaimer -- these are my ideas and > opinions. Please > read this in that spirit and NOT as medical advice > or medical > information. I added some new comments at the end, > also completely my > own opinion. > > " ...Regarding food triggers that cause flushing: > first, everyone > agrees that there are foods/drinks like alcohol and > spicy foods that > cause immediate flushing in many people, rosaceans > and non-rosaceans. > Statistically, they are likely culprits -- although > it's important > that not all rosaceans will flush to even these > common triggers. > Also, some may flush only with certain amounts or > with combined > triggers such as beer under a hot sun, red wine when > under emotional > stress, etc. > > Much less commonly, there are people on this list > and elsewhere who > attribute immediate flushing to foods that contain > or release small > peptides such as histamine; whether this is related > to a deficiency > in an enzyme as some hypothesize or some kind of > vascular reaction, I > don't know. The list of foods varies from Web site > and references, > and I don't know what to believe so I'm listing all > I found (in no > particular order): cheese, sour cream, spinach, > eggplant, red wine, > mackerel, anchovies, herring, sardines, yeast, > sausage, sauerkraut, > canned tuna, preserves, spinach, tomatoes, > strawberry, chocolate, > protease-containing fruits like bananas and papayas, > alcohol, citrus > fruits, avocado, raisins, and vinegar. Obviously > most rosaceans don't > flush to any of these. > > Third, a number of people on this list and in the > lay press attribute > rosacean triggers to to food allergies/intolerances. > Unlike the > above, food allergies/intolerances usually manifest > as a skin > inflammation (itchy, red, hives or small papules on > the epidermis) or > as angioedema (painless swelling of the dermis). > > (If a food allergy manifests by flushing, it should > be accompanied by > low blood pressure and with a major allergic > reaction. (This is in > distinction to the rosacea triggers and > histamine-containing foods > discussed above, where flushing may be accompanied > with minor > lightheadedness, but not the systemic systems that > are part of an > allergic reaction.)) > > Intolerances also involve the immune system, but not > the stereotypic > pathways involved in an allergic reaction. > Intolerances also tend to > be delayed by hours or even days. Most commonly, > food intolerances > are accompanied by GI symptoms, but not uniformly > so. They can just > involve only skin inflammation, although the face is > not the most > common place they manifest. > > Statistically, the most common foods to induce food > intolerances in > the general public are wheat products, gluten > products (Celiac > disease is one form of gluten intolerance, and for a > number of > reasons it's tempting to see a relationship between > rosacea and > Celiac disease, but Celiac's dermatologic feature > looks nothing like > rosacea and is rarely just on the face), cow dairy > products, and soy > products. I've not found evidence that explains > whether rosaceans are > more suspectable to food intolerances, or more > suspectible to > manifest food intolerances as facial rashes. > > So here's how I would put it together, considering > dietary and non- > dietary triggers: > > With a flush alone, the most common triggers are > environmental and > individual (physical or emotional stress), but some > foods like > alcohol or spicy foods are also common culprits. > Over the months, it > should be clear whether any of these triggers affect > a particular > person, alone or in combination, and how much > exposure can be > tolerated, if any. If flushing presents at times > when none of the > most common triggers apply, it's reasonable to > consider side effects > of one's medications and hormonal states such as > menopause, and then > subtle environmental factors or histamine-associated > foods. > > Identification is made easy because the trigger > causes an immediate > flush reaction; the flush will be while still in the > pizzeria, not > two hours later. Also, rest assured that if you > aren't being rushed > to the hospital then the flush isn't the result of > any kind of > allergy. (As explained above, a flush is a serious > manifestation of > an allergy usually accompanied by hypotension and > other systemic > symptoms.) > > In contrast to flushing, what triggers the > irritative/inflammatory > symptoms of rosacea can be much harder to identify, > largely because > the trigger can be hours if not days away. Far and > away the most > common triggers of irritative/inflammatory rosacean > symptoms are from > topicals -- something applied directly the skin. > Topicals can cause > an immediate sensitivity such as burning or itching > and/or delayed > symptoms, by hours or days (rarely, weeks). So the > new soap today may > result in a worsening of papules and redness (not > flushing redness, > but inflammatory redness) two days from now, after > we've already > tried the new moisturizer. Or the reaction may occur > a week later, > after the ingredients have built up in the skin or > sensitization has > occurred. The most classic type of reaction here is > an irritative > contact dermatitis, but consider other types of > contact dermatitis as > well, such as nickel from eyeglasses or new face or > hand jewelry, or > even nail polish. > > What challenges most rosaceans is differentiating > between the normal > exacerbation and remissions that characterize > vascular and > inflammatory rosacea, with more subtle triggers that > could be from > many sources, including histamine-related foods and > food > intolerances, respectively. > > I respect that many in this group give a higher > priority to diet and > rosacea. In my opinion, the kind of elimination and > other restrictive > diets aren't likely to impact the health of most > rosaceans -- in > contrast to things that are likely to benefit most > everyone, like > drinking 6-8 glasses of water/day, taking a good > multivitamin with > healthy doses of B vitamins, getting a good nite's > sleep each night, > and using the smallest amounts of basic cleansers > and moisturizers > without frequent changes that risk sensitizing > sensitive skin > further. > > After a month of just doing these basic things, with > attention to > === message truncated === __________________________________________________ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 18, 2002 Report Share Posted July 18, 2002 Thanks Marjorie! I have to say, I wish this post was one of the first things I read after being diagnosed with cea. The food issue always confuses me. This makes sense! Can we place it in the highlights section of the website? One question though - what about caffeine? Michele --- emarjency wrote: > , here's a copy & paste on some dietary and > non-dietary > information I posted on June 11th to the group. I > prefaced these > comments with a disclaimer -- these are my ideas and > opinions. Please > read this in that spirit and NOT as medical advice > or medical > information. I added some new comments at the end, > also completely my > own opinion. > > " ...Regarding food triggers that cause flushing: > first, everyone > agrees that there are foods/drinks like alcohol and > spicy foods that > cause immediate flushing in many people, rosaceans > and non-rosaceans. > Statistically, they are likely culprits -- although > it's important > that not all rosaceans will flush to even these > common triggers. > Also, some may flush only with certain amounts or > with combined > triggers such as beer under a hot sun, red wine when > under emotional > stress, etc. > > Much less commonly, there are people on this list > and elsewhere who > attribute immediate flushing to foods that contain > or release small > peptides such as histamine; whether this is related > to a deficiency > in an enzyme as some hypothesize or some kind of > vascular reaction, I > don't know. The list of foods varies from Web site > and references, > and I don't know what to believe so I'm listing all > I found (in no > particular order): cheese, sour cream, spinach, > eggplant, red wine, > mackerel, anchovies, herring, sardines, yeast, > sausage, sauerkraut, > canned tuna, preserves, spinach, tomatoes, > strawberry, chocolate, > protease-containing fruits like bananas and papayas, > alcohol, citrus > fruits, avocado, raisins, and vinegar. Obviously > most rosaceans don't > flush to any of these. > > Third, a number of people on this list and in the > lay press attribute > rosacean triggers to to food allergies/intolerances. > Unlike the > above, food allergies/intolerances usually manifest > as a skin > inflammation (itchy, red, hives or small papules on > the epidermis) or > as angioedema (painless swelling of the dermis). > > (If a food allergy manifests by flushing, it should > be accompanied by > low blood pressure and with a major allergic > reaction. (This is in > distinction to the rosacea triggers and > histamine-containing foods > discussed above, where flushing may be accompanied > with minor > lightheadedness, but not the systemic systems that > are part of an > allergic reaction.)) > > Intolerances also involve the immune system, but not > the stereotypic > pathways involved in an allergic reaction. > Intolerances also tend to > be delayed by hours or even days. Most commonly, > food intolerances > are accompanied by GI symptoms, but not uniformly > so. They can just > involve only skin inflammation, although the face is > not the most > common place they manifest. > > Statistically, the most common foods to induce food > intolerances in > the general public are wheat products, gluten > products (Celiac > disease is one form of gluten intolerance, and for a > number of > reasons it's tempting to see a relationship between > rosacea and > Celiac disease, but Celiac's dermatologic feature > looks nothing like > rosacea and is rarely just on the face), cow dairy > products, and soy > products. I've not found evidence that explains > whether rosaceans are > more suspectable to food intolerances, or more > suspectible to > manifest food intolerances as facial rashes. > > So here's how I would put it together, considering > dietary and non- > dietary triggers: > > With a flush alone, the most common triggers are > environmental and > individual (physical or emotional stress), but some > foods like > alcohol or spicy foods are also common culprits. > Over the months, it > should be clear whether any of these triggers affect > a particular > person, alone or in combination, and how much > exposure can be > tolerated, if any. If flushing presents at times > when none of the > most common triggers apply, it's reasonable to > consider side effects > of one's medications and hormonal states such as > menopause, and then > subtle environmental factors or histamine-associated > foods. > > Identification is made easy because the trigger > causes an immediate > flush reaction; the flush will be while still in the > pizzeria, not > two hours later. Also, rest assured that if you > aren't being rushed > to the hospital then the flush isn't the result of > any kind of > allergy. (As explained above, a flush is a serious > manifestation of > an allergy usually accompanied by hypotension and > other systemic > symptoms.) > > In contrast to flushing, what triggers the > irritative/inflammatory > symptoms of rosacea can be much harder to identify, > largely because > the trigger can be hours if not days away. Far and > away the most > common triggers of irritative/inflammatory rosacean > symptoms are from > topicals -- something applied directly the skin. > Topicals can cause > an immediate sensitivity such as burning or itching > and/or delayed > symptoms, by hours or days (rarely, weeks). So the > new soap today may > result in a worsening of papules and redness (not > flushing redness, > but inflammatory redness) two days from now, after > we've already > tried the new moisturizer. Or the reaction may occur > a week later, > after the ingredients have built up in the skin or > sensitization has > occurred. The most classic type of reaction here is > an irritative > contact dermatitis, but consider other types of > contact dermatitis as > well, such as nickel from eyeglasses or new face or > hand jewelry, or > even nail polish. > > What challenges most rosaceans is differentiating > between the normal > exacerbation and remissions that characterize > vascular and > inflammatory rosacea, with more subtle triggers that > could be from > many sources, including histamine-related foods and > food > intolerances, respectively. > > I respect that many in this group give a higher > priority to diet and > rosacea. In my opinion, the kind of elimination and > other restrictive > diets aren't likely to impact the health of most > rosaceans -- in > contrast to things that are likely to benefit most > everyone, like > drinking 6-8 glasses of water/day, taking a good > multivitamin with > healthy doses of B vitamins, getting a good nite's > sleep each night, > and using the smallest amounts of basic cleansers > and moisturizers > without frequent changes that risk sensitizing > sensitive skin > further. > > After a month of just doing these basic things, with > attention to > === message truncated === __________________________________________________ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 18, 2002 Report Share Posted July 18, 2002 Thanks Marjorie! I have to say, I wish this post was one of the first things I read after being diagnosed with cea. The food issue always confuses me. This makes sense! Can we place it in the highlights section of the website? One question though - what about caffeine? Michele --- emarjency wrote: > , here's a copy & paste on some dietary and > non-dietary > information I posted on June 11th to the group. I > prefaced these > comments with a disclaimer -- these are my ideas and > opinions. Please > read this in that spirit and NOT as medical advice > or medical > information. I added some new comments at the end, > also completely my > own opinion. > > " ...Regarding food triggers that cause flushing: > first, everyone > agrees that there are foods/drinks like alcohol and > spicy foods that > cause immediate flushing in many people, rosaceans > and non-rosaceans. > Statistically, they are likely culprits -- although > it's important > that not all rosaceans will flush to even these > common triggers. > Also, some may flush only with certain amounts or > with combined > triggers such as beer under a hot sun, red wine when > under emotional > stress, etc. > > Much less commonly, there are people on this list > and elsewhere who > attribute immediate flushing to foods that contain > or release small > peptides such as histamine; whether this is related > to a deficiency > in an enzyme as some hypothesize or some kind of > vascular reaction, I > don't know. The list of foods varies from Web site > and references, > and I don't know what to believe so I'm listing all > I found (in no > particular order): cheese, sour cream, spinach, > eggplant, red wine, > mackerel, anchovies, herring, sardines, yeast, > sausage, sauerkraut, > canned tuna, preserves, spinach, tomatoes, > strawberry, chocolate, > protease-containing fruits like bananas and papayas, > alcohol, citrus > fruits, avocado, raisins, and vinegar. Obviously > most rosaceans don't > flush to any of these. > > Third, a number of people on this list and in the > lay press attribute > rosacean triggers to to food allergies/intolerances. > Unlike the > above, food allergies/intolerances usually manifest > as a skin > inflammation (itchy, red, hives or small papules on > the epidermis) or > as angioedema (painless swelling of the dermis). > > (If a food allergy manifests by flushing, it should > be accompanied by > low blood pressure and with a major allergic > reaction. (This is in > distinction to the rosacea triggers and > histamine-containing foods > discussed above, where flushing may be accompanied > with minor > lightheadedness, but not the systemic systems that > are part of an > allergic reaction.)) > > Intolerances also involve the immune system, but not > the stereotypic > pathways involved in an allergic reaction. > Intolerances also tend to > be delayed by hours or even days. Most commonly, > food intolerances > are accompanied by GI symptoms, but not uniformly > so. They can just > involve only skin inflammation, although the face is > not the most > common place they manifest. > > Statistically, the most common foods to induce food > intolerances in > the general public are wheat products, gluten > products (Celiac > disease is one form of gluten intolerance, and for a > number of > reasons it's tempting to see a relationship between > rosacea and > Celiac disease, but Celiac's dermatologic feature > looks nothing like > rosacea and is rarely just on the face), cow dairy > products, and soy > products. I've not found evidence that explains > whether rosaceans are > more suspectable to food intolerances, or more > suspectible to > manifest food intolerances as facial rashes. > > So here's how I would put it together, considering > dietary and non- > dietary triggers: > > With a flush alone, the most common triggers are > environmental and > individual (physical or emotional stress), but some > foods like > alcohol or spicy foods are also common culprits. > Over the months, it > should be clear whether any of these triggers affect > a particular > person, alone or in combination, and how much > exposure can be > tolerated, if any. If flushing presents at times > when none of the > most common triggers apply, it's reasonable to > consider side effects > of one's medications and hormonal states such as > menopause, and then > subtle environmental factors or histamine-associated > foods. > > Identification is made easy because the trigger > causes an immediate > flush reaction; the flush will be while still in the > pizzeria, not > two hours later. Also, rest assured that if you > aren't being rushed > to the hospital then the flush isn't the result of > any kind of > allergy. (As explained above, a flush is a serious > manifestation of > an allergy usually accompanied by hypotension and > other systemic > symptoms.) > > In contrast to flushing, what triggers the > irritative/inflammatory > symptoms of rosacea can be much harder to identify, > largely because > the trigger can be hours if not days away. Far and > away the most > common triggers of irritative/inflammatory rosacean > symptoms are from > topicals -- something applied directly the skin. > Topicals can cause > an immediate sensitivity such as burning or itching > and/or delayed > symptoms, by hours or days (rarely, weeks). So the > new soap today may > result in a worsening of papules and redness (not > flushing redness, > but inflammatory redness) two days from now, after > we've already > tried the new moisturizer. Or the reaction may occur > a week later, > after the ingredients have built up in the skin or > sensitization has > occurred. The most classic type of reaction here is > an irritative > contact dermatitis, but consider other types of > contact dermatitis as > well, such as nickel from eyeglasses or new face or > hand jewelry, or > even nail polish. > > What challenges most rosaceans is differentiating > between the normal > exacerbation and remissions that characterize > vascular and > inflammatory rosacea, with more subtle triggers that > could be from > many sources, including histamine-related foods and > food > intolerances, respectively. > > I respect that many in this group give a higher > priority to diet and > rosacea. In my opinion, the kind of elimination and > other restrictive > diets aren't likely to impact the health of most > rosaceans -- in > contrast to things that are likely to benefit most > everyone, like > drinking 6-8 glasses of water/day, taking a good > multivitamin with > healthy doses of B vitamins, getting a good nite's > sleep each night, > and using the smallest amounts of basic cleansers > and moisturizers > without frequent changes that risk sensitizing > sensitive skin > further. > > After a month of just doing these basic things, with > attention to > === message truncated === __________________________________________________ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 18, 2002 Report Share Posted July 18, 2002 Thanks Marjorie! I have to say, I wish this post was one of the first things I read after being diagnosed with cea. The food issue always confuses me. This makes sense! Can we place it in the highlights section of the website? One question though - what about caffeine? Michele --- emarjency wrote: > , here's a copy & paste on some dietary and > non-dietary > information I posted on June 11th to the group. I > prefaced these > comments with a disclaimer -- these are my ideas and > opinions. Please > read this in that spirit and NOT as medical advice > or medical > information. I added some new comments at the end, > also completely my > own opinion. > > " ...Regarding food triggers that cause flushing: > first, everyone > agrees that there are foods/drinks like alcohol and > spicy foods that > cause immediate flushing in many people, rosaceans > and non-rosaceans. > Statistically, they are likely culprits -- although > it's important > that not all rosaceans will flush to even these > common triggers. > Also, some may flush only with certain amounts or > with combined > triggers such as beer under a hot sun, red wine when > under emotional > stress, etc. > > Much less commonly, there are people on this list > and elsewhere who > attribute immediate flushing to foods that contain > or release small > peptides such as histamine; whether this is related > to a deficiency > in an enzyme as some hypothesize or some kind of > vascular reaction, I > don't know. The list of foods varies from Web site > and references, > and I don't know what to believe so I'm listing all > I found (in no > particular order): cheese, sour cream, spinach, > eggplant, red wine, > mackerel, anchovies, herring, sardines, yeast, > sausage, sauerkraut, > canned tuna, preserves, spinach, tomatoes, > strawberry, chocolate, > protease-containing fruits like bananas and papayas, > alcohol, citrus > fruits, avocado, raisins, and vinegar. Obviously > most rosaceans don't > flush to any of these. > > Third, a number of people on this list and in the > lay press attribute > rosacean triggers to to food allergies/intolerances. > Unlike the > above, food allergies/intolerances usually manifest > as a skin > inflammation (itchy, red, hives or small papules on > the epidermis) or > as angioedema (painless swelling of the dermis). > > (If a food allergy manifests by flushing, it should > be accompanied by > low blood pressure and with a major allergic > reaction. (This is in > distinction to the rosacea triggers and > histamine-containing foods > discussed above, where flushing may be accompanied > with minor > lightheadedness, but not the systemic systems that > are part of an > allergic reaction.)) > > Intolerances also involve the immune system, but not > the stereotypic > pathways involved in an allergic reaction. > Intolerances also tend to > be delayed by hours or even days. Most commonly, > food intolerances > are accompanied by GI symptoms, but not uniformly > so. They can just > involve only skin inflammation, although the face is > not the most > common place they manifest. > > Statistically, the most common foods to induce food > intolerances in > the general public are wheat products, gluten > products (Celiac > disease is one form of gluten intolerance, and for a > number of > reasons it's tempting to see a relationship between > rosacea and > Celiac disease, but Celiac's dermatologic feature > looks nothing like > rosacea and is rarely just on the face), cow dairy > products, and soy > products. I've not found evidence that explains > whether rosaceans are > more suspectable to food intolerances, or more > suspectible to > manifest food intolerances as facial rashes. > > So here's how I would put it together, considering > dietary and non- > dietary triggers: > > With a flush alone, the most common triggers are > environmental and > individual (physical or emotional stress), but some > foods like > alcohol or spicy foods are also common culprits. > Over the months, it > should be clear whether any of these triggers affect > a particular > person, alone or in combination, and how much > exposure can be > tolerated, if any. If flushing presents at times > when none of the > most common triggers apply, it's reasonable to > consider side effects > of one's medications and hormonal states such as > menopause, and then > subtle environmental factors or histamine-associated > foods. > > Identification is made easy because the trigger > causes an immediate > flush reaction; the flush will be while still in the > pizzeria, not > two hours later. Also, rest assured that if you > aren't being rushed > to the hospital then the flush isn't the result of > any kind of > allergy. (As explained above, a flush is a serious > manifestation of > an allergy usually accompanied by hypotension and > other systemic > symptoms.) > > In contrast to flushing, what triggers the > irritative/inflammatory > symptoms of rosacea can be much harder to identify, > largely because > the trigger can be hours if not days away. Far and > away the most > common triggers of irritative/inflammatory rosacean > symptoms are from > topicals -- something applied directly the skin. > Topicals can cause > an immediate sensitivity such as burning or itching > and/or delayed > symptoms, by hours or days (rarely, weeks). So the > new soap today may > result in a worsening of papules and redness (not > flushing redness, > but inflammatory redness) two days from now, after > we've already > tried the new moisturizer. Or the reaction may occur > a week later, > after the ingredients have built up in the skin or > sensitization has > occurred. The most classic type of reaction here is > an irritative > contact dermatitis, but consider other types of > contact dermatitis as > well, such as nickel from eyeglasses or new face or > hand jewelry, or > even nail polish. > > What challenges most rosaceans is differentiating > between the normal > exacerbation and remissions that characterize > vascular and > inflammatory rosacea, with more subtle triggers that > could be from > many sources, including histamine-related foods and > food > intolerances, respectively. > > I respect that many in this group give a higher > priority to diet and > rosacea. In my opinion, the kind of elimination and > other restrictive > diets aren't likely to impact the health of most > rosaceans -- in > contrast to things that are likely to benefit most > everyone, like > drinking 6-8 glasses of water/day, taking a good > multivitamin with > healthy doses of B vitamins, getting a good nite's > sleep each night, > and using the smallest amounts of basic cleansers > and moisturizers > without frequent changes that risk sensitizing > sensitive skin > further. > > After a month of just doing these basic things, with > attention to > === message truncated === __________________________________________________ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 18, 2002 Report Share Posted July 18, 2002 > One question though - what about caffeine? I don't know but others here might, Michele. Caffeine vasoconstricts cranial vessels and so is commonly added to aspirin and other medications for vascular headache relief, but it is also a central nervous system stimulant and so may theoretically cause central face vasodilation. Marjorie Marjorie Lazoff, MD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 18, 2002 Report Share Posted July 18, 2002 > One question though - what about caffeine? I don't know but others here might, Michele. Caffeine vasoconstricts cranial vessels and so is commonly added to aspirin and other medications for vascular headache relief, but it is also a central nervous system stimulant and so may theoretically cause central face vasodilation. Marjorie Marjorie Lazoff, MD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 18, 2002 Report Share Posted July 18, 2002 > One question though - what about caffeine? I don't know but others here might, Michele. Caffeine vasoconstricts cranial vessels and so is commonly added to aspirin and other medications for vascular headache relief, but it is also a central nervous system stimulant and so may theoretically cause central face vasodilation. Marjorie Marjorie Lazoff, MD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 18, 2002 Report Share Posted July 18, 2002 > One question though - what about caffeine? I don't know but others here might, Michele. Caffeine vasoconstricts cranial vessels and so is commonly added to aspirin and other medications for vascular headache relief, but it is also a central nervous system stimulant and so may theoretically cause central face vasodilation. Marjorie Marjorie Lazoff, MD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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