Re: RE: Neuroleptic induced Parkinsonism -and causes

[Guest guest]

Deborah,

Please note from the site you sent earlier:

" Throughout the CMDG site map there are references to a variety of

medications that you may not be familiar with. We would suggest

discussing these with your physician or pharmacist.

The list below provide some names of some of the medications used under

the headings of the movement disorders they are used for ...

All medications have side effects. Many side effects are related to the

initial dose strength, increasing the medication too quickly, or getting

to too high a dose. Often by reporting the problem to your physician

adjustments can be made to allow a more complete trial of a medication

before " giving up " on a medication prior to a possible effective dose

being acheived. "

I have wondered all along about why you picked Sinemet and Florinef as

possibly causing your movement problems as I have never seen them

mentioned with a side effect of reduced movement - only too much

movement (dyskinesia). Sinemet is not a dopamine blocking agent - it is

a dopamine producing agent. Florinef seems to have few side effects

that resemble MSA symptoms that I can find. If you read the info

carefully on the site you mentioned

http://www.cmdg.org/Movement_/drug/Acute_Parkinsons/acute_parkinsons.htm

you see these statements:

" The symptoms occur within one month of starting neuroleptics in 50% of

cases and within three months in 90%. It is not infrequent to see drug

induced Parkinsonism, akathisia, and other dyskinesias simultaneously.

Minor extrapyramidal features on exam can be identified as early as the

fourth day of treatment in elderly patients. "

And

" Metoclopramide tends to induce a Parkinsonism frequently affecting

females over the age of 60 particularly with the renal failure. These

cases have a bilateral onset and a prominent tremor with coexistent oral

facial dyskinesias. The risk relates to the duration of use of

metoclopramide. "

Metoclopramide IS a dopamine blocking agent and DOES cut muscle spasm

especially in the stomach muscles. However, most people with MSA have

only the Parkinson type rigidity and little of the tremor (although

there is some tremor associated with MSA at times). The Sinemet CAN

produce dyskinesia, but even I can tell the difference between PD type

tremor and dyskinesia (since the doctor showed me how to spot it when I

asked about it). Talk to your doctor and ask questions.

If you look at Pam's site, you will see that uppers, downers and pain

killers can cause MSA like symptoms - which I have said all along. I do

not remember if you used any uppers or downers, but I don't think you

mentioned them, so I still do not understand how you had drug induced

symptoms of MSA or PD.

On another note Pam's site has this note which should cause everyone to

watch out for alternative therapies:

Norepinephrine (Levophed) is often used in some recent " alternative

medical treatments " being sold as possible treatments for MSA. In one

case that I know of, the patient was advised to stop taking Sinemet and

start taking a combination of drugs including Norepinephrine (Levophed).

His medical doctor told him it was not a good idea, but another

" doctor " (outside the USA) told him to stop taking the Sinemet and start

the Norepinephrine (Levophed). The patient lost most movement within

weeks and has still not recovered movement using Norepinephrine

(Levophed) almost two years later. On the CoQ10, tests have been done

on PD patients and are inconclusive (even with highly pure refined

drugs), yet some people are pushing it as a " cure " . If you want to pay

the money for the good stuff, go ahead but don't be fooled by false

claims that it is a cure for MSA and pay out huge sums for it. Always

know what you are getting, mystery " cures " are not worth big bucks.

That is why I continue to advise people on this list to listen to their

doctors rather than go looking for an alternative " cure " for MSA.

Granted we have no cure at this time, but most people with MSA can get

some relief from some symptoms with careful experimentation using

accepted prescription medicines, exercise, proper liquid intake, and

proper diet. I still know of any patient with MSA who has gotten ANY

real help from alternative medicine. Massage and accupuncture may help

pain and movement slightly, but Tylenol and range of motion exercise

also help most patients somewhat (and are much cheaper).

Take care, Bill Werre

Note: If it is as cold in NC as it is here in VA, you need warm fuzzies

I played softball in 41 deg weather on Monday - YUK!

========================================================================

Deborah Setzer wrote:

>Jean,

>

> Of course I will. As stated in my previous post... I can find lots of

>articles on drugs that reduce dopamine causing this to happen but am not

>having much luck finding articles producing this when given meds to increase

>dopamine.

>

>Hugs and Warm Fuzzies,

>Deborah aka Tenacity

>

[Guest guest]

Deborah,

Please note from the site you sent earlier:

" Throughout the CMDG site map there are references to a variety of

medications that you may not be familiar with. We would suggest

discussing these with your physician or pharmacist.

The list below provide some names of some of the medications used under

the headings of the movement disorders they are used for ...

All medications have side effects. Many side effects are related to the

initial dose strength, increasing the medication too quickly, or getting

to too high a dose. Often by reporting the problem to your physician

adjustments can be made to allow a more complete trial of a medication

before " giving up " on a medication prior to a possible effective dose

being acheived. "

I have wondered all along about why you picked Sinemet and Florinef as

possibly causing your movement problems as I have never seen them

mentioned with a side effect of reduced movement - only too much

movement (dyskinesia). Sinemet is not a dopamine blocking agent - it is

a dopamine producing agent. Florinef seems to have few side effects

that resemble MSA symptoms that I can find. If you read the info

carefully on the site you mentioned

http://www.cmdg.org/Movement_/drug/Acute_Parkinsons/acute_parkinsons.htm

you see these statements:

" The symptoms occur within one month of starting neuroleptics in 50% of

cases and within three months in 90%. It is not infrequent to see drug

induced Parkinsonism, akathisia, and other dyskinesias simultaneously.

Minor extrapyramidal features on exam can be identified as early as the

fourth day of treatment in elderly patients. "

And

" Metoclopramide tends to induce a Parkinsonism frequently affecting

females over the age of 60 particularly with the renal failure. These

cases have a bilateral onset and a prominent tremor with coexistent oral

facial dyskinesias. The risk relates to the duration of use of

metoclopramide. "

Metoclopramide IS a dopamine blocking agent and DOES cut muscle spasm

especially in the stomach muscles. However, most people with MSA have

only the Parkinson type rigidity and little of the tremor (although

there is some tremor associated with MSA at times). The Sinemet CAN

produce dyskinesia, but even I can tell the difference between PD type

tremor and dyskinesia (since the doctor showed me how to spot it when I

asked about it). Talk to your doctor and ask questions.

If you look at Pam's site, you will see that uppers, downers and pain

killers can cause MSA like symptoms - which I have said all along. I do

not remember if you used any uppers or downers, but I don't think you

mentioned them, so I still do not understand how you had drug induced

symptoms of MSA or PD.

On another note Pam's site has this note which should cause everyone to

watch out for alternative therapies:

Norepinephrine (Levophed) is often used in some recent " alternative

medical treatments " being sold as possible treatments for MSA. In one

case that I know of, the patient was advised to stop taking Sinemet and

start taking a combination of drugs including Norepinephrine (Levophed).

His medical doctor told him it was not a good idea, but another

" doctor " (outside the USA) told him to stop taking the Sinemet and start

the Norepinephrine (Levophed). The patient lost most movement within

weeks and has still not recovered movement using Norepinephrine

(Levophed) almost two years later. On the CoQ10, tests have been done

on PD patients and are inconclusive (even with highly pure refined

drugs), yet some people are pushing it as a " cure " . If you want to pay

the money for the good stuff, go ahead but don't be fooled by false

claims that it is a cure for MSA and pay out huge sums for it. Always

know what you are getting, mystery " cures " are not worth big bucks.

That is why I continue to advise people on this list to listen to their

doctors rather than go looking for an alternative " cure " for MSA.

Granted we have no cure at this time, but most people with MSA can get

some relief from some symptoms with careful experimentation using

accepted prescription medicines, exercise, proper liquid intake, and

proper diet. I still know of any patient with MSA who has gotten ANY

real help from alternative medicine. Massage and accupuncture may help

pain and movement slightly, but Tylenol and range of motion exercise

also help most patients somewhat (and are much cheaper).

Take care, Bill Werre

Note: If it is as cold in NC as it is here in VA, you need warm fuzzies

I played softball in 41 deg weather on Monday - YUK!

========================================================================

Deborah Setzer wrote:

>Jean,

>

> Of course I will. As stated in my previous post... I can find lots of

>articles on drugs that reduce dopamine causing this to happen but am not

>having much luck finding articles producing this when given meds to increase

>dopamine.

>

>Hugs and Warm Fuzzies,

>Deborah aka Tenacity

>