Using Supplements During Laser/Photoderm Treatment

[Guest guest]

The recent mailings about horse chestnut have made me wonder if there are

any supplements we should avoid taking during and after laser work.

For instance, I've been taking Pycnogenol and Rutin for a while and have

found that they have helped reduce my redness and flushing. Normally this

is a good thing, but prior to a laser treatment, I wonder if it's wise to

avoid taking them for a few days. More importantly, what about taking them

again soon after a treatment? I have just been doing some more reading

about the health benefits of grape seed and pycnogenol and apart from being

wonderful anti-inflammatories, they are also proven to be effective

anti-coagulants and help prevent blood clots from forming. Well this sounds

great until you think that the way a laser treatment works is by coagulating

a vessel so that a clot forms!

I've heard that patients should avoid taking Aspirin for pain during laser

treatment because it thins the blood and prevents clotting. And yet

Geoffrey Nase's book recommends Wobenzyme which is considered very similar

in its actions to Aspirin. However, there is no mention of avoiding taking

it during treatment.

Finally, what about Vitamin E? I'm sure a lot of us take it because it's

known to be very good for the skin. However, it is well known as being

effective after any form of trauma, surgery or injury because it aids wound

healing. It is also very good for scars. My understanding is that the way

it works is by increasing the growth of new vessels at the site of any

injury. Presumably this would be a very bad thing after laser treatment

because it could promote angiogenesis. Only one (German) doctor told me to

avoid Vitamin E for several weeks after laser treatment. He recommened

using Vitamin K cream to heal the purpura but every single Vitamin K cream I

have found also contains Vitamin E!

Most doctors are not very knowledgable when it comes to supplements and will

probably tell you that whatever you take doesn't make any difference.

But I'm wondering if its possible that the variable results many of us are

experiencing after laser/photoderm treatment could be due in part to doing

the wrong things during or after treatment. I am especially interested in

hearing if anybody HAS had successful laser treatment despite taking

Pycnogenol since that is what I am taking at the moment and have just had

treatment with the V-Star laser.

Thanks, Colin

[Guest guest]

The recent mailings about horse chestnut have made me wonder if there are

any supplements we should avoid taking during and after laser work.

For instance, I've been taking Pycnogenol and Rutin for a while and have

found that they have helped reduce my redness and flushing. Normally this

is a good thing, but prior to a laser treatment, I wonder if it's wise to

avoid taking them for a few days. More importantly, what about taking them

again soon after a treatment? I have just been doing some more reading

about the health benefits of grape seed and pycnogenol and apart from being

wonderful anti-inflammatories, they are also proven to be effective

anti-coagulants and help prevent blood clots from forming. Well this sounds

great until you think that the way a laser treatment works is by coagulating

a vessel so that a clot forms!

I've heard that patients should avoid taking Aspirin for pain during laser

treatment because it thins the blood and prevents clotting. And yet

Geoffrey Nase's book recommends Wobenzyme which is considered very similar

in its actions to Aspirin. However, there is no mention of avoiding taking

it during treatment.

Finally, what about Vitamin E? I'm sure a lot of us take it because it's

known to be very good for the skin. However, it is well known as being

effective after any form of trauma, surgery or injury because it aids wound

healing. It is also very good for scars. My understanding is that the way

it works is by increasing the growth of new vessels at the site of any

injury. Presumably this would be a very bad thing after laser treatment

because it could promote angiogenesis. Only one (German) doctor told me to

avoid Vitamin E for several weeks after laser treatment. He recommened

using Vitamin K cream to heal the purpura but every single Vitamin K cream I

have found also contains Vitamin E!

Most doctors are not very knowledgable when it comes to supplements and will

probably tell you that whatever you take doesn't make any difference.

But I'm wondering if its possible that the variable results many of us are

experiencing after laser/photoderm treatment could be due in part to doing

the wrong things during or after treatment. I am especially interested in

hearing if anybody HAS had successful laser treatment despite taking

Pycnogenol since that is what I am taking at the moment and have just had

treatment with the V-Star laser.

Thanks, Colin

[Guest guest]

Colin, at this time it's a belief thing, not a science or " knowledge "

thing. There's no good scientific evidence (that I know about) for

any of these products, especially for rosaceans specifically. So

those who don't believe won't care whether they are used during laser

treatment or not. For those who believe, it makes sense to

discontinue the products' use at least several days before treatment,

and hold off until the effects of laser treatments and skin healing

abate. (I don't know how long that is.)

Referring to both your comments and others raised over the past few

days: I'm not aware of any connection between rosacea and chronic

venous insufficiency or varicose veins. Telangiectasias are permanent

dilations of the smallest part of the vasculature -- the arterioles,

cappilaries, and venules. I'll continue to look for further

information on telangiectasias specifically in rosacea.

Although also permanently dilated vessels, varicose veins involve the

large veins and so are a different pathophysiologic phenomenon than

telangiectasias. I don't see an easy connection between them, nor

between chronic venous stasis and rosacea. Even if decreased venous

blood flow is characteristic of rosacea (as I believe one study

documented) I would think it's secondary to increased pressure

gradients from increased arterial blood flow -- flushing -- rather

than a primary sluggish venous system, as commonly affects legs and

ankles.

I especially see no connection between coagulation problems and

rosacea. Taking an anti-coagulant hoping to improve blood flow in the

face makes no physiologic sense to me. There is no theoretical

process or actual evidence that would have rosacea related to blood

clotting. Even in lower leg venous stasis, the blood flow problems

encourage clotting, not the other way around.

You raise an interesting point about Vitamin E. If you're correct and

it does promote angiogenesis, that's probably not good for any of us,

lasers or no lasers.

Good luck with your treatments. Let us know how it goes.

Marjorie

Marjorie Lazoff, MD

> The recent mailings about horse chestnut have made me wonder if

there are

> any supplements we should avoid taking during and after laser work.

>

> For instance, I've been taking Pycnogenol and Rutin for a while and

have

> found that they have helped reduce my redness and flushing.

Normally this

> is a good thing, but prior to a laser treatment, I wonder if it's

wise to

> avoid taking them for a few days. More importantly, what about

taking them

> again soon after a treatment? I have just been doing some more

reading

> about the health benefits of grape seed and pycnogenol and apart

from being

> wonderful anti-inflammatories, they are also proven to be effective

> anti-coagulants and help prevent blood clots from forming. Well

this sounds

> great until you think that the way a laser treatment works is by

coagulating

> a vessel so that a clot forms!

>

> I've heard that patients should avoid taking Aspirin for pain

during laser

> treatment because it thins the blood and prevents clotting. And yet

> Geoffrey Nase's book recommends Wobenzyme which is considered very

similar

> in its actions to Aspirin. However, there is no mention of

avoiding taking

> it during treatment.

>

> Finally, what about Vitamin E? I'm sure a lot of us take it

because it's

> known to be very good for the skin. However, it is well known as

being

> effective after any form of trauma, surgery or injury because it

aids wound

> healing. It is also very good for scars. My understanding is that

the way

> it works is by increasing the growth of new vessels at the site of

any

> injury. Presumably this would be a very bad thing after laser

treatment

> because it could promote angiogenesis. Only one (German) doctor

told me to

> avoid Vitamin E for several weeks after laser treatment. He

recommened

> using Vitamin K cream to heal the purpura but every single Vitamin

K cream I

> have found also contains Vitamin E!

>

> Most doctors are not very knowledgable when it comes to supplements

and will

> probably tell you that whatever you take doesn't make any

difference.

>

> But I'm wondering if its possible that the variable results many of

us are

> experiencing after laser/photoderm treatment could be due in part

to doing

> the wrong things during or after treatment. I am especially

interested in

> hearing if anybody HAS had successful laser treatment despite taking

> Pycnogenol since that is what I am taking at the moment and have

just had

> treatment with the V-Star laser.

>

> Thanks, Colin

[Guest guest]

Colin, at this time it's a belief thing, not a science or " knowledge "

thing. There's no good scientific evidence (that I know about) for

any of these products, especially for rosaceans specifically. So

those who don't believe won't care whether they are used during laser

treatment or not. For those who believe, it makes sense to

discontinue the products' use at least several days before treatment,

and hold off until the effects of laser treatments and skin healing

abate. (I don't know how long that is.)

Referring to both your comments and others raised over the past few

days: I'm not aware of any connection between rosacea and chronic

venous insufficiency or varicose veins. Telangiectasias are permanent

dilations of the smallest part of the vasculature -- the arterioles,

cappilaries, and venules. I'll continue to look for further

information on telangiectasias specifically in rosacea.

Although also permanently dilated vessels, varicose veins involve the

large veins and so are a different pathophysiologic phenomenon than

telangiectasias. I don't see an easy connection between them, nor

between chronic venous stasis and rosacea. Even if decreased venous

blood flow is characteristic of rosacea (as I believe one study

documented) I would think it's secondary to increased pressure

gradients from increased arterial blood flow -- flushing -- rather

than a primary sluggish venous system, as commonly affects legs and

ankles.

I especially see no connection between coagulation problems and

rosacea. Taking an anti-coagulant hoping to improve blood flow in the

face makes no physiologic sense to me. There is no theoretical

process or actual evidence that would have rosacea related to blood

clotting. Even in lower leg venous stasis, the blood flow problems

encourage clotting, not the other way around.

You raise an interesting point about Vitamin E. If you're correct and

it does promote angiogenesis, that's probably not good for any of us,

lasers or no lasers.

Good luck with your treatments. Let us know how it goes.

Marjorie

Marjorie Lazoff, MD

> The recent mailings about horse chestnut have made me wonder if

there are

> any supplements we should avoid taking during and after laser work.

>

> For instance, I've been taking Pycnogenol and Rutin for a while and

have

> found that they have helped reduce my redness and flushing.

Normally this

> is a good thing, but prior to a laser treatment, I wonder if it's

wise to

> avoid taking them for a few days. More importantly, what about

taking them

> again soon after a treatment? I have just been doing some more

reading

> about the health benefits of grape seed and pycnogenol and apart

from being

> wonderful anti-inflammatories, they are also proven to be effective

> anti-coagulants and help prevent blood clots from forming. Well

this sounds

> great until you think that the way a laser treatment works is by

coagulating

> a vessel so that a clot forms!

>

> I've heard that patients should avoid taking Aspirin for pain

during laser

> treatment because it thins the blood and prevents clotting. And yet

> Geoffrey Nase's book recommends Wobenzyme which is considered very

similar

> in its actions to Aspirin. However, there is no mention of

avoiding taking

> it during treatment.

>

> Finally, what about Vitamin E? I'm sure a lot of us take it

because it's

> known to be very good for the skin. However, it is well known as

being

> effective after any form of trauma, surgery or injury because it

aids wound

> healing. It is also very good for scars. My understanding is that

the way

> it works is by increasing the growth of new vessels at the site of

any

> injury. Presumably this would be a very bad thing after laser

treatment

> because it could promote angiogenesis. Only one (German) doctor

told me to

> avoid Vitamin E for several weeks after laser treatment. He

recommened

> using Vitamin K cream to heal the purpura but every single Vitamin

K cream I

> have found also contains Vitamin E!

>

> Most doctors are not very knowledgable when it comes to supplements

and will

> probably tell you that whatever you take doesn't make any

difference.

>

> But I'm wondering if its possible that the variable results many of

us are

> experiencing after laser/photoderm treatment could be due in part

to doing

> the wrong things during or after treatment. I am especially

interested in

> hearing if anybody HAS had successful laser treatment despite taking

> Pycnogenol since that is what I am taking at the moment and have

just had

> treatment with the V-Star laser.

>

> Thanks, Colin

[Guest guest]

What about taking supplements like vitamine C and

Pycnogenol during laser so that the new vessels grows

stronger and not just become new weak vessels ?

//Kajsa.

--- " C.S. " skrev: > The

recent mailings about horse chestnut have made

> me wonder if there are

> any supplements we should avoid taking during and

> after laser work.

>

> For instance, I've been taking Pycnogenol and Rutin

> for a while and have

> found that they have helped reduce my redness and

> flushing. Normally this

> is a good thing, but prior to a laser treatment, I

> wonder if it's wise to

> avoid taking them for a few days. More importantly,

> what about taking them

> again soon after a treatment? I have just been

> doing some more reading

> about the health benefits of grape seed and

> pycnogenol and apart from being

> wonderful anti-inflammatories, they are also proven

> to be effective

> anti-coagulants and help prevent blood clots from

> forming. Well this sounds

> great until you think that the way a laser treatment

> works is by coagulating

> a vessel so that a clot forms!

>

> I've heard that patients should avoid taking Aspirin

> for pain during laser

> treatment because it thins the blood and prevents

> clotting. And yet

> Geoffrey Nase's book recommends Wobenzyme which is

> considered very similar

> in its actions to Aspirin. However, there is no

> mention of avoiding taking

> it during treatment.

>

> Finally, what about Vitamin E? I'm sure a lot of us

> take it because it's

> known to be very good for the skin. However, it is

> well known as being

> effective after any form of trauma, surgery or

> injury because it aids wound

> healing. It is also very good for scars. My

> understanding is that the way

> it works is by increasing the growth of new vessels

> at the site of any

> injury. Presumably this would be a very bad thing

> after laser treatment

> because it could promote angiogenesis. Only one

> (German) doctor told me to

> avoid Vitamin E for several weeks after laser

> treatment. He recommened

> using Vitamin K cream to heal the purpura but every

> single Vitamin K cream I

> have found also contains Vitamin E!

>

> Most doctors are not very knowledgable when it comes

> to supplements and will

> probably tell you that whatever you take doesn't

> make any difference.

>

> But I'm wondering if its possible that the variable

> results many of us are

> experiencing after laser/photoderm treatment could

> be due in part to doing

> the wrong things during or after treatment. I am

> especially interested in

> hearing if anybody HAS had successful laser

> treatment despite taking

> Pycnogenol since that is what I am taking at the

> moment and have just had

> treatment with the V-Star laser.

>

> Thanks, Colin

_____________________________________________________

Gratis e-mail resten av livet på www.yahoo.se/mail

Busenkelt!

[Guest guest]

What about taking supplements like vitamine C and

Pycnogenol during laser so that the new vessels grows

stronger and not just become new weak vessels ?

//Kajsa.

--- " C.S. " skrev: > The

recent mailings about horse chestnut have made

> me wonder if there are

> any supplements we should avoid taking during and

> after laser work.

>

> For instance, I've been taking Pycnogenol and Rutin

> for a while and have

> found that they have helped reduce my redness and

> flushing. Normally this

> is a good thing, but prior to a laser treatment, I

> wonder if it's wise to

> avoid taking them for a few days. More importantly,

> what about taking them

> again soon after a treatment? I have just been

> doing some more reading

> about the health benefits of grape seed and

> pycnogenol and apart from being

> wonderful anti-inflammatories, they are also proven

> to be effective

> anti-coagulants and help prevent blood clots from

> forming. Well this sounds

> great until you think that the way a laser treatment

> works is by coagulating

> a vessel so that a clot forms!

>

> I've heard that patients should avoid taking Aspirin

> for pain during laser

> treatment because it thins the blood and prevents

> clotting. And yet

> Geoffrey Nase's book recommends Wobenzyme which is

> considered very similar

> in its actions to Aspirin. However, there is no

> mention of avoiding taking

> it during treatment.

>

> Finally, what about Vitamin E? I'm sure a lot of us

> take it because it's

> known to be very good for the skin. However, it is

> well known as being

> effective after any form of trauma, surgery or

> injury because it aids wound

> healing. It is also very good for scars. My

> understanding is that the way

> it works is by increasing the growth of new vessels

> at the site of any

> injury. Presumably this would be a very bad thing

> after laser treatment

> because it could promote angiogenesis. Only one

> (German) doctor told me to

> avoid Vitamin E for several weeks after laser

> treatment. He recommened

> using Vitamin K cream to heal the purpura but every

> single Vitamin K cream I

> have found also contains Vitamin E!

>

> Most doctors are not very knowledgable when it comes

> to supplements and will

> probably tell you that whatever you take doesn't

> make any difference.

>

> But I'm wondering if its possible that the variable

> results many of us are

> experiencing after laser/photoderm treatment could

> be due in part to doing

> the wrong things during or after treatment. I am

> especially interested in

> hearing if anybody HAS had successful laser

> treatment despite taking

> Pycnogenol since that is what I am taking at the

> moment and have just had

> treatment with the V-Star laser.

>

> Thanks, Colin

_____________________________________________________

Gratis e-mail resten av livet på www.yahoo.se/mail

Busenkelt!