Guest guest Posted July 25, 2002 Report Share Posted July 25, 2002 > Deryk, at least one study demonstrated increased cerebral blood flow > with horse chestnut. The deeper structures of the eye receive blood > directly from cerebral vessels, and increased blood flow could > absolutely give you throbbing and bloodshot eyes. Uh-oh. This would then be a substance to avoid if, like me, you suffer from migraines.....Pat Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 25, 2002 Report Share Posted July 25, 2002 > Deryk, at least one study demonstrated increased cerebral blood flow > with horse chestnut. The deeper structures of the eye receive blood > directly from cerebral vessels, and increased blood flow could > absolutely give you throbbing and bloodshot eyes. Uh-oh. This would then be a substance to avoid if, like me, you suffer from migraines.....Pat Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 25, 2002 Report Share Posted July 25, 2002 - I took Horse Chestnut for a time about a year ago because they claim it's beneficial for repairing damaged blood vessels and I was hoping it would help with the varicose veins in my legs but after a very short time I had to stop taking it because it seemed to actually make them worse! I even got a few new ones. got some wicked headaches as well. also, Emarjency, have you ever heard of people getting headaches from Aspirin???? I get one every time I take an aspirin, even the low dose ones....but not from Advil or Tylenol...weird. -- In rosacea-support@y..., " emarjency " <emarjency@s...> wrote: > Deryk, at least one study demonstrated increased cerebral blood flow > with horse chestnut. The deeper structures of the eye receive blood > directly from cerebral vessels, and increased blood flow could > absolutely give you throbbing and bloodshot eyes. > > (Ocular rosacea involve the superficial structures of the eye, which > receive the same blood supply as the rest of the central face, a > different major branch of blood flow to the head.) > > I've done some reading on horse chestnut, and nothing convinces me it > would be helpful for the majority of rosaceans, although it may well > have benefits for other conditions. It has a respectable list of side > effects, as others have already commented. > > Marjorie > > Marjorie Lazoff, MD > > > > > > > > > > > > I just starting taking horse chestnut but had a very negative > > reaction--not to my skin, but to my eyes. Within an hour of taking > > the pill, my eyes become extremely bloodshot and throbbing. The > > following day, I, in the spirit of scientific experimentation, took > > another pill and had the same results in my eyes--again no dermal > > reaction. Can anyone put some reason to this effect? > > Deryk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 25, 2002 Report Share Posted July 25, 2002 - I took Horse Chestnut for a time about a year ago because they claim it's beneficial for repairing damaged blood vessels and I was hoping it would help with the varicose veins in my legs but after a very short time I had to stop taking it because it seemed to actually make them worse! I even got a few new ones. got some wicked headaches as well. also, Emarjency, have you ever heard of people getting headaches from Aspirin???? I get one every time I take an aspirin, even the low dose ones....but not from Advil or Tylenol...weird. -- In rosacea-support@y..., " emarjency " <emarjency@s...> wrote: > Deryk, at least one study demonstrated increased cerebral blood flow > with horse chestnut. The deeper structures of the eye receive blood > directly from cerebral vessels, and increased blood flow could > absolutely give you throbbing and bloodshot eyes. > > (Ocular rosacea involve the superficial structures of the eye, which > receive the same blood supply as the rest of the central face, a > different major branch of blood flow to the head.) > > I've done some reading on horse chestnut, and nothing convinces me it > would be helpful for the majority of rosaceans, although it may well > have benefits for other conditions. It has a respectable list of side > effects, as others have already commented. > > Marjorie > > Marjorie Lazoff, MD > > > > > > > > > > > > I just starting taking horse chestnut but had a very negative > > reaction--not to my skin, but to my eyes. Within an hour of taking > > the pill, my eyes become extremely bloodshot and throbbing. The > > following day, I, in the spirit of scientific experimentation, took > > another pill and had the same results in my eyes--again no dermal > > reaction. Can anyone put some reason to this effect? > > Deryk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 25, 2002 Report Share Posted July 25, 2002 Marjorie: Thank you so much for looking into horse chestnut. I had done searches on the internet and could not find info on cerebral blood flow and horse chestnut. I'm glad you were able to find some info on it. The increased blood flow must have been why some of us reacted badly to it. Patty > > > > I just starting taking horse chestnut but had a very negative > > reaction--not to my skin, but to my eyes. Within an hour of taking > > the pill, my eyes become extremely bloodshot and throbbing. The > > following day, I, in the spirit of scientific experimentation, took > > another pill and had the same results in my eyes--again no dermal > > reaction. Can anyone put some reason to this effect? > > Deryk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 25, 2002 Report Share Posted July 25, 2002 Marjorie: Thank you so much for looking into horse chestnut. I had done searches on the internet and could not find info on cerebral blood flow and horse chestnut. I'm glad you were able to find some info on it. The increased blood flow must have been why some of us reacted badly to it. Patty > > > > I just starting taking horse chestnut but had a very negative > > reaction--not to my skin, but to my eyes. Within an hour of taking > > the pill, my eyes become extremely bloodshot and throbbing. The > > following day, I, in the spirit of scientific experimentation, took > > another pill and had the same results in my eyes--again no dermal > > reaction. Can anyone put some reason to this effect? > > Deryk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 25, 2002 Report Share Posted July 25, 2002 Marjorie... Since there is more cerebral blood flow with Horse Chestnut does that mean I shouldn't try it if I have Glaucoma in the family and I am predisposed to a Closed Angle occurrence? (I'm having laser surgery for it next month.) Also, I too am a vascular nightmare--cea and Migraine and Lord knows what else! is it an Ixnay on the Horse Chestnut if we have migraine?? Thanks for sharing your knowledge with us, karen -- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 25, 2002 Report Share Posted July 25, 2002 Marjorie... Since there is more cerebral blood flow with Horse Chestnut does that mean I shouldn't try it if I have Glaucoma in the family and I am predisposed to a Closed Angle occurrence? (I'm having laser surgery for it next month.) Also, I too am a vascular nightmare--cea and Migraine and Lord knows what else! is it an Ixnay on the Horse Chestnut if we have migraine?? Thanks for sharing your knowledge with us, karen -- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 25, 2002 Report Share Posted July 25, 2002 Marjorie... Since there is more cerebral blood flow with Horse Chestnut does that mean I shouldn't try it if I have Glaucoma in the family and I am predisposed to a Closed Angle occurrence? (I'm having laser surgery for it next month.) Also, I too am a vascular nightmare--cea and Migraine and Lord knows what else! is it an Ixnay on the Horse Chestnut if we have migraine?? Thanks for sharing your knowledge with us, karen -- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 25, 2002 Report Share Posted July 25, 2002 Marjorie... Since there is more cerebral blood flow with Horse Chestnut does that mean I shouldn't try it if I have Glaucoma in the family and I am predisposed to a Closed Angle occurrence? (I'm having laser surgery for it next month.) Also, I too am a vascular nightmare--cea and Migraine and Lord knows what else! is it an Ixnay on the Horse Chestnut if we have migraine?? Thanks for sharing your knowledge with us, karen -- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 25, 2002 Report Share Posted July 25, 2002 , there was one study that found an increase in cerebral blood flow with horse chestnut (Mundinger F, Walter E, Kaiser G. [Regional cerebral blood flow in severe brain damage and its change by aescin studied with xenon 133] Arzneimittelforschung. 1969 Jul;19(7):1123-8. German. PMID: 5394513). Supporting this study are several others that document a decrease in both intracranial pressure and chemically induced brain edema in animals; a decrease in brain pressure and edema might well increase cerebral blood flow. So if the 1969 German study is true and if it can be extended to people without brain damage, then that might explain Deryk's throbbing and bloodshot eyes without associated skin changes. Certainly not the strongest evidence, and I don't know the clinical significance of all that. But I wouldn't recommend horse chestnut because from what I read, I saw no logic, common sense, or evidence that has horse chestnut impacting favorably on rosacea. Regarding theories presented in this group, I don't see a common pathophysiology between lower extremity chronic venous insufficiency and rosacea, and the horse chestnut studies that do document anti-inflammatory effect demonstrate its effectiveness in the early stages of acute injury -- which explains why it might improve pain and swelling after acute knee injury or surgery, but that's not the same as chronic inflammatory conditions like rosacea. Plus, as several have already mentioned, horse chestnut does have side effects. Finally, the horse chestnut's active ingredients and potential toxins vary depending on what part(s) of the tree is (are) used, so formulation is critical and there's no oversight in that regard, as there are with FDA approved prescription or over-the-counter medications. Marjorie Marjorie Lazoff, MD > Marjorie... > > Since there is more cerebral blood flow with Horse Chestnut does that > mean I shouldn't try it if I have Glaucoma in the family and I am > predisposed to a Closed Angle occurrence? (I'm having laser surgery > for it next month.) > > Also, I too am a vascular nightmare--cea and Migraine and Lord > knows what else! is it an Ixnay on the Horse Chestnut if we have > migraine?? > > Thanks for sharing your knowledge with us, > karen > -- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 25, 2002 Report Share Posted July 25, 2002 , there was one study that found an increase in cerebral blood flow with horse chestnut (Mundinger F, Walter E, Kaiser G. [Regional cerebral blood flow in severe brain damage and its change by aescin studied with xenon 133] Arzneimittelforschung. 1969 Jul;19(7):1123-8. German. PMID: 5394513). Supporting this study are several others that document a decrease in both intracranial pressure and chemically induced brain edema in animals; a decrease in brain pressure and edema might well increase cerebral blood flow. So if the 1969 German study is true and if it can be extended to people without brain damage, then that might explain Deryk's throbbing and bloodshot eyes without associated skin changes. Certainly not the strongest evidence, and I don't know the clinical significance of all that. But I wouldn't recommend horse chestnut because from what I read, I saw no logic, common sense, or evidence that has horse chestnut impacting favorably on rosacea. Regarding theories presented in this group, I don't see a common pathophysiology between lower extremity chronic venous insufficiency and rosacea, and the horse chestnut studies that do document anti-inflammatory effect demonstrate its effectiveness in the early stages of acute injury -- which explains why it might improve pain and swelling after acute knee injury or surgery, but that's not the same as chronic inflammatory conditions like rosacea. Plus, as several have already mentioned, horse chestnut does have side effects. Finally, the horse chestnut's active ingredients and potential toxins vary depending on what part(s) of the tree is (are) used, so formulation is critical and there's no oversight in that regard, as there are with FDA approved prescription or over-the-counter medications. Marjorie Marjorie Lazoff, MD > Marjorie... > > Since there is more cerebral blood flow with Horse Chestnut does that > mean I shouldn't try it if I have Glaucoma in the family and I am > predisposed to a Closed Angle occurrence? (I'm having laser surgery > for it next month.) > > Also, I too am a vascular nightmare--cea and Migraine and Lord > knows what else! is it an Ixnay on the Horse Chestnut if we have > migraine?? > > Thanks for sharing your knowledge with us, > karen > -- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 26, 2002 Report Share Posted July 26, 2002 Thanks so much, Margorie. I guess I'll have to pass on the Horsie! >, there was one study that found an increase in cerebral blood >flow with horse chestnut (Mundinger F, Walter E, Kaiser G. [Regional >cerebral blood flow in severe brain damage and its change by aescin >studied with xenon 133] Arzneimittelforschung. 1969 Jul;19(7):1123-8. >German. PMID: 5394513). Supporting this study are several others that >document a decrease in both intracranial pressure and chemically >induced brain edema in animals; a decrease in brain pressure and >edema might well increase cerebral blood flow. > >So if the 1969 German study is true and if it can be extended to >people without brain damage, then that might explain Deryk's >throbbing and bloodshot eyes without associated skin changes. >Certainly not the strongest evidence, and I don't know the clinical >significance of all that. > >But I wouldn't recommend horse chestnut because from what I read, I >saw no logic, common sense, or evidence that has horse chestnut >impacting favorably on rosacea. Regarding theories presented in this >group, I don't see a common pathophysiology between lower extremity >chronic venous insufficiency and rosacea, and the horse chestnut >studies that do document anti-inflammatory effect demonstrate its >effectiveness in the early stages of acute injury -- which explains >why it might improve pain and swelling after acute knee injury or >surgery, but that's not the same as chronic inflammatory conditions >like rosacea. Plus, as several have already mentioned, horse chestnut >does have side effects. Finally, the horse chestnut's active >ingredients and potential toxins vary depending on what part(s) of >the tree is (are) used, so formulation is critical and there's no >oversight in that regard, as there are with FDA approved prescription >or over-the-counter medications. > >Marjorie > >Marjorie Lazoff, MD > > > >> Marjorie... >> >> Since there is more cerebral blood flow with Horse Chestnut does >that >> mean I shouldn't try it if I have Glaucoma in the family and I am >> predisposed to a Closed Angle occurrence? (I'm having laser surgery > > for it next month.) > > > > Also, I too am a vascular nightmare--cea and Migraine and Lord > > knows what else! is it an Ixnay on the Horse Chestnut if we have > > migraine?? > > > > Thanks for sharing your knowledge with us, >> karen >> -- > > > >-- >Please read the list highlights before posting to the whole group >(http://rosacea.ii.net/toc.html). Your post will be delayed if you >don't give a meaningful subject or trim your reply text. You must >change the subject when replying to a digest ! > >See http://www.drnase.com for info on his recently published book. > >To leave the list send an email to rosacea-support-unsubscribe > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 26, 2002 Report Share Posted July 26, 2002 Thanks so much, Margorie. I guess I'll have to pass on the Horsie! >, there was one study that found an increase in cerebral blood >flow with horse chestnut (Mundinger F, Walter E, Kaiser G. [Regional >cerebral blood flow in severe brain damage and its change by aescin >studied with xenon 133] Arzneimittelforschung. 1969 Jul;19(7):1123-8. >German. PMID: 5394513). Supporting this study are several others that >document a decrease in both intracranial pressure and chemically >induced brain edema in animals; a decrease in brain pressure and >edema might well increase cerebral blood flow. > >So if the 1969 German study is true and if it can be extended to >people without brain damage, then that might explain Deryk's >throbbing and bloodshot eyes without associated skin changes. >Certainly not the strongest evidence, and I don't know the clinical >significance of all that. > >But I wouldn't recommend horse chestnut because from what I read, I >saw no logic, common sense, or evidence that has horse chestnut >impacting favorably on rosacea. Regarding theories presented in this >group, I don't see a common pathophysiology between lower extremity >chronic venous insufficiency and rosacea, and the horse chestnut >studies that do document anti-inflammatory effect demonstrate its >effectiveness in the early stages of acute injury -- which explains >why it might improve pain and swelling after acute knee injury or >surgery, but that's not the same as chronic inflammatory conditions >like rosacea. Plus, as several have already mentioned, horse chestnut >does have side effects. Finally, the horse chestnut's active >ingredients and potential toxins vary depending on what part(s) of >the tree is (are) used, so formulation is critical and there's no >oversight in that regard, as there are with FDA approved prescription >or over-the-counter medications. > >Marjorie > >Marjorie Lazoff, MD > > > >> Marjorie... >> >> Since there is more cerebral blood flow with Horse Chestnut does >that >> mean I shouldn't try it if I have Glaucoma in the family and I am >> predisposed to a Closed Angle occurrence? (I'm having laser surgery > > for it next month.) > > > > Also, I too am a vascular nightmare--cea and Migraine and Lord > > knows what else! is it an Ixnay on the Horse Chestnut if we have > > migraine?? > > > > Thanks for sharing your knowledge with us, >> karen >> -- > > > >-- >Please read the list highlights before posting to the whole group >(http://rosacea.ii.net/toc.html). Your post will be delayed if you >don't give a meaningful subject or trim your reply text. You must >change the subject when replying to a digest ! > >See http://www.drnase.com for info on his recently published book. > >To leave the list send an email to rosacea-support-unsubscribe > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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