Re: Apraxia and Slow Processing

[Guest guest]

I think so...My son has processing issues and has Apraxia (well now

Dyspraxia because he talks). I'm trying out the Listening Therapy for my

son to address his auditory processing problems staring Feb. 15th. Look up

Alfred Tomatis studies....it's really interesting!

Can anyone tell me (or give me an opinion) -- When a child has apraxia, and

is diagnosed as

" processing more slowly " than normal -- are the two related?

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 2/4/2008 5:28:04 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,

kiddietalk@... writes:

Even to the

general public the words " This is why I brought up partial paralysis

as an example. Again you can't judge one's ability on their

disability. So yes an apraxic child may tie his shoe slower, but

that doesn't mean he cognitively doesn't understand what he 'needs'

to do -he has trouble executing the motor skills needed to perform

the task as quickly as he wants. So an apraxic has slow processing

on actions -not slow processing on thoughts. There is a difference.

I agree with this statement, but just wanted to point out that there are so

many different things that people may be referring to when they use the term

" slow processing " in reference to our kids.

I don't think that most people MEAN to offend with this term, but rather

lack ANOTHER term to use that might describe the thought behind what they are

referring to.

I know that I sometimes think of Asa as having " slow processing " even while

the child is literally a genius and I KNOW he has no problem with processing

the THOUGHTS of things, but of course, since it's a motor planning problem, I

know he has the problem of EXECUTION to those tasks-- so it can actually be,

depending on how a person is using the term-- can be, in fact, slow

processing. (even though we know it's not the processing on the thoughts or

brain)

I dunno if I'm saying this to make sense, because I AGREE with what you've

said above, because my son has Global Apraxia/Developmental Dyspraxia, so I've

seen those looks people give when they assume he's " not all there " and that

he's " slow " , and there's nothing further from the truth! But I think they

just lack the FULL UNDERSTANDING of the condition, so the terms can sometimes

be

misused or used in an incorrect situation.

Becky

**************Biggest Grammy Award surprises of all time on AOL Music.

(http://music.aol.com/grammys/pictures/never-won-a-grammy?NCID=aolcmp00300000002\

5

48)

[Guest guest]

Apraxia does not go hand in hand with slow processing!!!

Yes there could be children in this group who have other diagnosis co

existing with the apraxia. As parents of children that are verbal

disabled -if you give up and believe your child to have " slow

processing " then who is there to advocate for him or her? And

perhaps some have to look outside of the verbal disabled box into one

most have more understanding of.

If a child has partial paralysis and takes more time to follow a task

due to that partial paralysis...does that mean he has " slow

processing " or that he needs a bit more time to overcome his

disability?

You have to test processing on ability -not on disability -or that is a

violation of that individual's civil rights!

Our children with apraxia have to overcome a motor planning disorder

of speech which takes them longer to motor plan. (try doing anything while

looking

in a mirror and you'll understand better what they deal with every

minute of their life) They have so much discrimination to fight

against in the world being there is so little awareness of apraxia -

as is one would suspect based upon more recent autism awareness that

autism and apraxia are one in the same. They are not. Autism is not

just a lack of speech -apraxia could be.

But many with apraxia have low tone, sensory issues to deal with too.

I've been saying for years to not pile up diagnosis on diagnosis

unless you know for sure that it's needed to help that child. What

good would the diagnosis of slow processing do to a child and their

future? Or should we say " what bad " which is more like it. Give the

children without a voice the benefit of the doubt like I did -and let

them prove everyone wrong like my son Tanner did. In

almost all cases they will -check the archives.

Here's my son Tanner story

http://www.cherab.org/information/familiesrelate/letter.html

Here's an archive on " diagnosis du jour "

start of archive from 2004~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

I know this was not one of your questions...but at what age -

considering how well your daughter is doing especially -do they stop

using the diagnosis " developmental language disorder " ?... Why not

just " language disorder? "

Speaking of which -you want to be sure that what your daughter has

truly is a language or receptive disorder and not just an expressive

disorder, or a combination of both receptive and expressive. Too

many communication impaired children are assumed to have receptive

disorders that do not.

Typically a child with " just " a language disorder does not have

other neurological " soft signs " like DSI (sensory integration

dysfunction) so you may want to make sure the language disorder

diagnosis is correct. A great person to speak to about this is Dr.

a Tallal who is an advisor to the CHERAB Foundation.

http://www.cherab.org/information/speechlanguage/advisoryboard.html

" SLI is a developmental language disorder in the absence of frank

neurological, sensori-motor, non-verbal cognitive or social

emotional deficits (see Watkins, 1994). "

http://web.gc.cuny.edu/Speechandhearing/labs/dnl/sli.htm

As Dr. Tallal and I discussed one day -unfortunately a late talker -

may

be diagnosed or misdiagnosed as apraxic, PDD, speech language

impaired -or just plain old speech delayed depending upon where you

live in the country or the world and who you see on a particular day.

And speaking of early signs of a language disorder from another

CHERAB advisor - Kaufman:

http://www.kidspeech.com/signs_recept.html

Until there is genetic, blood, or other testing to know for sure,

speech and language impairment diagnosis are up to the whim of the

professional diagnosing them. It's not clear cut like a broken

arm...or a cut, and due to the varied diagnosis and assumptions of

the child's capabilities, the therapies and treatments vary, some

being more appropriate than others for the specific child, some even

being inappropriate. This is why it's so important to seek out the

most accurate diagnosis so you can seek the most appropriate

therapies to best help your child get up to speed prior to

kindergarten if possible.

Due to the epileptic pattern in the left temporal lobe, what does

the neurodevelopmental doctor have to say?

What grade is your child in and what type of placement? Is she

mainstreamed in kindergarten or first grade for example. Does she

have friends, or have trouble making friends? How does she

communicate and how often do others understand her? I'm sure all is

OK since you say it seems like now she is on the right track -just

wanted to post all of the above just in case.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~end of archive from 2004

=====

[Guest guest]

Apraxia is a neurological motor planning disorder - the message to/from the

brain to the affected areas of the body (verbal, oral, limb, etc.) is not

getting through in a clear, consistent, and efficient manner. So, yes, apraxia

is equated with " slow processing. " Also, from my understanding, apraxia is the

absence of something - thus the absence of the neurological messages in, for our

kids, speech production. Dyspraxia is the inconsistency in the messages. So,

you are really correct in saying that because your ds now is speaking, it

probably should be referred to as dyspraxia (although most of us here still call

it apraxia - we all still have a pretty darn good idea what we all mean!).

Sherry and Josh

myra.bauza@... wrote:

I think so...My son has processing issues and has Apraxia (well now

Dyspraxia because he talks). I'm trying out the Listening Therapy for my

son to address his auditory processing problems staring Feb. 15th. Look up

Alfred Tomatis studies....it's really interesting!

Can anyone tell me (or give me an opinion) -- When a child has apraxia, and

is diagnosed as

" processing more slowly " than normal -- are the two related?

[Guest guest]

Isn't the processing issue related to neuropathy?

>

> Apraxia does not go hand in hand with slow processing!!!

>

> Yes there could be children in this group who have other diagnosis

co

> existing with the apraxia. As parents of children that are verbal

> disabled -if you give up and believe your child to have " slow

> processing " then who is there to advocate for him or her? And

> perhaps some have to look outside of the verbal disabled box into

one

> most have more understanding of.

>

> If a child has partial paralysis and takes more time to follow a

task

> due to that partial paralysis...does that mean he has " slow

> processing " or that he needs a bit more time to overcome his

> disability?

>

> You have to test processing on ability -not on disability -or that

is a

> violation of that individual's civil rights!

>

> Our children with apraxia have to overcome a motor planning disorder

> of speech which takes them longer to motor plan. (try doing

anything while looking

> in a mirror and you'll understand better what they deal with every

> minute of their life) They have so much discrimination to fight

> against in the world being there is so little awareness of apraxia -

> as is one would suspect based upon more recent autism awareness that

> autism and apraxia are one in the same. They are not. Autism is

not

> just a lack of speech -apraxia could be.

>

> But many with apraxia have low tone, sensory issues to deal with

too.

>

> I've been saying for years to not pile up diagnosis on diagnosis

> unless you know for sure that it's needed to help that child. What

> good would the diagnosis of slow processing do to a child and their

> future? Or should we say " what bad " which is more like it. Give

the

> children without a voice the benefit of the doubt like I did -and

let

> them prove everyone wrong like my son Tanner did. In

> almost all cases they will -check the archives.

>

> Here's my son Tanner story

> http://www.cherab.org/information/familiesrelate/letter.html

>

> Here's an archive on " diagnosis du jour "

>

> start of archive from 2004~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

>

> I know this was not one of your questions...but at what age -

> considering how well your daughter is doing especially -do they stop

> using the diagnosis " developmental language disorder " ?... Why not

> just " language disorder? "

>

> Speaking of which -you want to be sure that what your daughter has

> truly is a language or receptive disorder and not just an expressive

> disorder, or a combination of both receptive and expressive. Too

> many communication impaired children are assumed to have receptive

> disorders that do not.

>

> Typically a child with " just " a language disorder does not have

> other neurological " soft signs " like DSI (sensory integration

> dysfunction) so you may want to make sure the language disorder

> diagnosis is correct. A great person to speak to about this is Dr.

> a Tallal who is an advisor to the CHERAB Foundation.

> http://www.cherab.org/information/speechlanguage/advisoryboard.html

> " SLI is a developmental language disorder in the absence of frank

> neurological, sensori-motor, non-verbal cognitive or social

> emotional deficits (see Watkins, 1994). "

> http://web.gc.cuny.edu/Speechandhearing/labs/dnl/sli.htm

>

> As Dr. Tallal and I discussed one day -unfortunately a late talker -

> may

> be diagnosed or misdiagnosed as apraxic, PDD, speech language

> impaired -or just plain old speech delayed depending upon where you

> live in the country or the world and who you see on a particular

day.

>

> And speaking of early signs of a language disorder from another

> CHERAB advisor - Kaufman:

> http://www.kidspeech.com/signs_recept.html

>

> Until there is genetic, blood, or other testing to know for sure,

> speech and language impairment diagnosis are up to the whim of the

> professional diagnosing them. It's not clear cut like a broken

> arm...or a cut, and due to the varied diagnosis and assumptions of

> the child's capabilities, the therapies and treatments vary, some

> being more appropriate than others for the specific child, some even

> being inappropriate. This is why it's so important to seek out the

> most accurate diagnosis so you can seek the most appropriate

> therapies to best help your child get up to speed prior to

> kindergarten if possible.

>

> Due to the epileptic pattern in the left temporal lobe, what does

> the neurodevelopmental doctor have to say?

>

> What grade is your child in and what type of placement? Is she

> mainstreamed in kindergarten or first grade for example. Does she

> have friends, or have trouble making friends? How does she

> communicate and how often do others understand her? I'm sure all is

> OK since you say it seems like now she is on the right track -just

> wanted to post all of the above just in case.

> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~end of archive from 2004

>

> =====

>

[Guest guest]

I think the two are separate issues, but they are frequently co-morbid

conditions. I just watched the NACD dvd on Learning and Attention

Problems (very good!), and I learned some very interesting things about

auditory processing.

There are many frequencies of sound from 20Hz to 20,000, but hearing

tests only test 6-8! You can pass a hearing testing and still have

significant hearing issues. The brain learns to process specific

frequencies of sound in the first two years of life, but this process

can be interrupted any time there is fluid in the middle ear (not just

ear infection). This problem is almost never identified. (It can be

easily detected by a tympanagram, but pediatricians do not usually do

this test.) Bob Doman thinks that dairy products are a large part of

the problem. When this development doesn't happen, the ear can't

process tones, language development is delayed and, since it affects

the vestibular system, motor development can be delayed as well. The

Listening Program re-educates the brain to process sound (tonal

processing).

According to Bob Doman, about 1 in 1,000 kids who have auditory

problems have a problem with processing tones fast enough. Since they

are slow to process the first tone of a word, they can't move on to the

next sound, etc. FastForward is a program that works on that type of

problem.

And then there is auditory sequential processing, which is improved by

practicing digit spans. Also, there is auditory dominance, which

affects long memory (storage) of information. The NACD likes kids to

have their dominant ear, eye, hand, and foot all be on the same side,

and they give activities to make this happen.

I think many SLPs and other experts tend to misuse one term for the

other. A good audiologist can probably tell you which type of problem

your child has, but they usually don't want to evaluate them until they

are 6-8 years old. In the meantime, you have lost valuable time.

That's why I love the NACD approach. They can give you stuff to

improve today.

in NJ

>

> Can anyone tell me (or give me an opinion) -- When a child has

apraxia, and is diagnosed as

> " processing more slowly " than normal -- are the two related?

>

[Guest guest]

Right after I posted my message I thought about the fact that

apraxia 'is' a motor planning disorder so thanks for bringing this up

Sherry! Yes you are correct that apraxia is a motor planning

disorder and at times they will take longer to do things based on

their motor planning disorder -but that doesn't exactly mean that our

children have " slow processing " in regards to a cognitive/receptive

angle/separate diagnosis which is the direction I based the emails

when auditory processing as a diagnosis was brought up. Even to the

general public the words " This is why I brought up partial paralysis

as an example. Again you can't judge one's ability on their

disability. So yes an apraxic child may tie his shoe slower, but

that doesn't mean he cognitively doesn't understand what he 'needs'

to do -he has trouble executing the motor skills needed to perform

the task as quickly as he wants. So an apraxic has slow processing

on actions -not slow processing on thoughts. There is a difference.

As you know as a mom -our children desperately at times know what

they want to say or do -but can't. I just as always want to make

sure that those with apraxia are not underestimated -so I will always

be the one (at times lone) voice that believes in the untapped

ability of that verbal disabled child.

" Never underestimate the power of dreams and the influence of the

human spirit. We are all the same in this notion: The potential for

greatness lives within each of us. "

Wilma Rudolph quotes (First American woman Runner to win three gold

medals at a single Olympics. 1940-1994)

=====

[Guest guest]

Maybe it is me but I am less hung up on labels. I also have the

benefit of a young child who has yet to be scarred by labels but here

is my take on the whole processing thing. My child is slow in

processing in three areas. Auditory processing: be it a B12

deficiency, yeast or toxins, something has prevented him from hearing

things correctly and he therefore can't articulate well. Whether that

continues now or whether his current articulation is from simply

hearing things wrong for so long I do not know. It is likely a combo

and I am intent on finding the cause and the solution. His second

delayed processing area is visual. He just got glasses so whether he

has true phonemic awareness issues or whether he is just now seeing

things right and we have to play catch up I do not know. What I do

know is that he was holding an " O " from a game and saying " It's an O "

when he was on E which I had to take him off of to address a bleeding

issue. It will be nice if I can get that back. Lastly, he has an

issue with his hands. The OT said he crossed the midline but

something is up with his hands. My guess is he did not cross it

properly and that he has peripheral neuropathy that interferes with

this intermittently. It is the best it has ever been but we must

investigate MB12 issues and general toxicity among other things to

see what is behind this.

>

> Right after I posted my message I thought about the fact that

> apraxia 'is' a motor planning disorder so thanks for bringing this

up

> Sherry! Yes you are correct that apraxia is a motor planning

> disorder and at times they will take longer to do things based on

> their motor planning disorder -but that doesn't exactly mean that

our

> children have " slow processing " in regards to a cognitive/receptive

> angle/separate diagnosis which is the direction I based the emails

> when auditory processing as a diagnosis was brought up. Even to

the

> general public the words " This is why I brought up partial

paralysis

> as an example. Again you can't judge one's ability on their

> disability. So yes an apraxic child may tie his shoe slower, but

> that doesn't mean he cognitively doesn't understand what he 'needs'

> to do -he has trouble executing the motor skills needed to perform

> the task as quickly as he wants. So an apraxic has slow

processing

> on actions -not slow processing on thoughts. There is a

difference.

> As you know as a mom -our children desperately at times know what

> they want to say or do -but can't. I just as always want to make

> sure that those with apraxia are not underestimated -so I will

always

> be the one (at times lone) voice that believes in the untapped

> ability of that verbal disabled child.

>

> " Never underestimate the power of dreams and the influence of the

> human spirit. We are all the same in this notion: The potential for

> greatness lives within each of us. "

> Wilma Rudolph quotes (First American woman Runner to win three

gold

> medals at a single Olympics. 1940-1994)

>

> =====

>

[Guest guest]

This is where mainstream medicine served us well. We had that test

and my son has that issue and it is resolving. He had fluid, it was

never infected, but would not leave. That, for him, was milk. Doris

Rapp says that children requiring tubes typically need to be off milk

and that that allergy causes the problems requiring the tubes.

Similar to what my ENT said about our son...after the darn surgery!

Doris Rapp also says that despite the belief that children grow out

of milk allergies typically 75% of them do not but they allergic

reaction that occurs is different and leads to other issues. That

explains the bald and gut impaired members of my family who think

they grew out of it.

Asthma is another milk allergic indicator according to Rapp or Bock

(can;t say as I am reading both at the same time).

, this is a big help. At least I understand why we have had such

a great response to TLP. Also makes me think catching the milk thing

early (though not early enough for my eternal mommy guilt) saved us

from a much worse condition.

[Guest guest]

Absolutely, - I've been around this board for quite some time and you know

I would never underestimate what our kiddoes are capable of accomplishing!

Yikes, when you figure that evil doc originally saying Josh had MR, would never

walk unassisted, would never speak intelligibly - and look what he's

accomplished over the years! I never meant to imply that our kiddoes have some

cognitive issues or muscle tone issues or sensory issues affecting their ability

to process - unless, of course, that has been a proper diagnosis in addition to

the apraxia (which, in Josh's case, it has). So, as I wrote, apraxia is a motor

planning disorder which, in and of itself, does affect the processing of the

neurological messages.

Sherry and Josh (who, notwithstanding what the evil doc said years ago, was a

gold medal winner in Special Olympic basketball skills and will be going to the

State competition next month! HAH! to that doc!!!)

kiddietalk <kiddietalk@...> wrote:

Right after I posted my message I thought about the fact that

apraxia 'is' a motor planning disorder so thanks for bringing this up

Sherry! Yes you are correct that apraxia is a motor planning

disorder and at times they will take longer to do things based on

their motor planning disorder -but that doesn't exactly mean that our

children have " slow processing " in regards to a cognitive/receptive

angle/separate diagnosis which is the direction I based the emails

when auditory processing as a diagnosis was brought up. Even to the

general public the words " This is why I brought up partial paralysis

as an example. Again you can't judge one's ability on their

disability. So yes an apraxic child may tie his shoe slower, but

that doesn't mean he cognitively doesn't understand what he 'needs'

to do -he has trouble executing the motor skills needed to perform

the task as quickly as he wants. So an apraxic has slow processing

on actions -not slow processing on thoughts. There is a difference.

As you know as a mom -our children desperately at times know what

they want to say or do -but can't. I just as always want to make

sure that those with apraxia are not underestimated -so I will always

be the one (at times lone) voice that believes in the untapped

ability of that verbal disabled child.

" Never underestimate the power of dreams and the influence of the

human spirit. We are all the same in this notion: The potential for

greatness lives within each of us. "

Wilma Rudolph quotes (First American woman Runner to win three gold

medals at a single Olympics. 1940-1994)

=====

[Guest guest]

I think this is where autism and apraxia have crossed paths. We all know

that there is something going on neurologically with unparallel development.

Addressing the issues through therapy and biomedically is what apraxia and

autism have in common. Autism to me is just a wider spectrum of disorders

and include apraxia. The old autism model (classic Kraner model) does not

really apply as much as Autism Spectrum Disorder does in today's times. As

for as disorders involving autism, some kids have a few, and some kids have

more. What I have learned though that all of these kids are actually very

smart in different ways, Unfortunately when you start to fine tune the

diagnosis, sometimes you are denied services for disorders that are not

quite defined. I actually was denied some support because the doctor

diagnosed my kids with Autism Spectrum Disorder and not Autism. UGG! Its

the same thing. On the other hand I was given more services than I would

have if the dx would have been just apraxia. This is where labeling gets in

the way. I wish the dx could just be " something's not right, and some things

are very right " and just help my child where there are shortfalls.

I am happy to report though that after 9 months of diet and biomedical

interventions, the autism and apraxia have resolved for one of my twins and

the other is doing quite well. All fine and large motor skills are there and

we now have beautiful articulation. His receptive language is near age

appropriate, but his expressive language is a little to selective to be

normal. No real therapies done. A few weeks ago we started OT and PT and ST.

We were on a 9 month waiting list. The therapists are all scratching their

heads wondering why we are there.(except for the ST and OT for the one twin

that still has some minor issues)

So I will have to jump on board with Liz. More concerned with what has

prevented my child from developing normally and reversing it. Along this

path comes the necessary rehabilitation (therapy). I am sure some kids have

fully recovered from using one or the other but I am just covering my bases.

Nickerson

[ ] Re: Apraxia and Slow Processing

> Maybe it is me but I am less hung up on labels. I also have the

> benefit of a young child who has yet to be scarred by labels but here

> is my take on the whole processing thing. My child is slow in

> processing in three areas.

[Guest guest]

Liz there is much in the archives and in research about self-

fulfilling prophecies and the research of Dr. Rosenthal. Please

don't assume that it's OK because your child is younger to say your

child is " slow " in three areas! There is a huge problem with many

here assuming that apraxia and processing disorders co exist or that

children with apraxia have slow receptive/cognitive processing skills

which is also a sign of mental retardation. And the fact so many

today are accepting this is very sad. Perhaps unlike the children

here from over the years like my son Tanner -the children in the

group today won't be mainstreamed. Is that the belief? Because

belief becomes reality and you get to choose now. Your child's

future depends in some part on your belief. Isn't it a mother and

father's instinct to raise our child up?

And to answer the question about therapy for another diagnosis

working. Many here with autistic children found some of the methods

used for apraxia to work as well. The Kaufman Kit can be used by any

late talker- even one that isn't apraxic.

We tried various therapies for Tanner that are used for deaf children

including learning sign -that doesn't mean Tanner is deaf. Just

because a therapy helps doesn't mean a child has the diagnosis that

therapy was originally designed for.

Please do some homework on the awesome Dr. Rosenthal and the

work he has done. You will also find much about him in the

archives. Sadly if you believe your child to be slow..in three areas

no less -you 'are' probably going to find out you are right. When

nobody else believed in Tanner Glenn and I did and guess who proved

everyone but us wrong -not us -but Tanner did! I loved sharing the whole

story with Dr. Rosenthal because he is brilliant and he is the one

that inspired me. And I saw it work. They could have been right and

Tanner would have been in special ed today.

http://www.cherab.org/information/familiesrelate/letter.html

I know some of you don't understand this -but again don't assume the

worst and don't underestimate those that can't verbally prove you

wrong...yet. Sometimes it's best to be wrong and if you believe

apraxia and slow processing of receptive or cognitive skills go hand

in hand -then you 'are' wrong. Apraxia is not a cognitive disorder.

And even if in your child's case you were right and for example one's

child has co existing mental retardation with the apraxia -you are

still best to believe in your child and give the benefit of the

doubt. Look at Robin's daughter -it's a hard pill to swallow

to be wrong -or assume others are right with bogus diagnosis about

your child - years down the road.

http://www.cherab.org/news/.html

And while for ethical reasons Dr. Rosenthal's research was done in

the positive -in speaking with him he agrees that it works both

ways. If that's the case why think anything but the positive?

http://www.facultydirectory.ucr.edu/cgi-bin/pub/public_individual.pl?faculty=534

http://www.pineforge.com/newman4study/resources/rosenthal1.htm

http://www.psichi.org/pubs/articles/article_121.asp

http://www.accel-team.com/pygmalion/prophecy_01.html

http://www.musicedmagic.com/class-management/classroom-vision-and-the-self-fulfi\

lling-prophecy.html

http://www.motivation-tools.com/workplace/social_prejudice.htm

tons more -just google it or search the archives here

=====

[Guest guest]

I gotta tell ya.....

We corrected auditory tonal processing via The Listening Program

We brought Marks auditory digit spans up to a solid 8 (high functioning adult)

from a 5 (five year old child);

We changed his auditory dominance from left to right by plugging his ear.

We eliminated milk products & other stuff to address allergens (remains a

continuous work in process as we discover more items). We ensure that the ear

stays clear and functional.

TA DAAAAAAAA! The result is a brand new kid.... I swear, the difference to

function with these steps is from really disfunctional child to highly

functional child and the benefits are simpley too numerous to list. They effect

every single area of life just as dyspraxia affects every single area of

life......

For those of you who have not yet investigated this path, I highly recommend it.

Many of our children have severe auditory processing issues! (which go

undetected by many professionals)

Janice

Mother of Mark, 13

[sPAM][ ] Re: Apraxia and Slow Processing

I think the two are separate issues, but they are frequently co-morbid

conditions. I just watched the NACD dvd on Learning and Attention

Problems (very good!), and I learned some very interesting things about

auditory processing.

There are many frequencies of sound from 20Hz to 20,000, but hearing

tests only test 6-8! You can pass a hearing testing and still have

significant hearing issues. The brain learns to process specific

frequencies of sound in the first two years of life, but this process

can be interrupted any time there is fluid in the middle ear (not just

ear infection). This problem is almost never identified. (It can be

easily detected by a tympanagram, but pediatricians do not usually do

this test.) Bob Doman thinks that dairy products are a large part of

the problem. When this development doesn't happen, the ear can't

process tones, language development is delayed and, since it affects

the vestibular system, motor development can be delayed as well. The

Listening Program re-educates the brain to process sound (tonal

processing).

According to Bob Doman, about 1 in 1,000 kids who have auditory

problems have a problem with processing tones fast enough. Since they

are slow to process the first tone of a word, they can't move on to the

next sound, etc. FastForward is a program that works on that type of

problem.

And then there is auditory sequential processing, which is improved by

practicing digit spans. Also, there is auditory dominance, which

affects long memory (storage) of information. The NACD likes kids to

have their dominant ear, eye, hand, and foot all be on the same side,

and they give activities to make this happen.

I think many SLPs and other experts tend to misuse one term for the

other. A good audiologist can probably tell you which type of problem

your child has, but they usually don't want to evaluate them until they

are 6-8 years old. In the meantime, you have lost valuable time.

That's why I love the NACD approach. They can give you stuff to

improve today.

in NJ

>

> Can anyone tell me (or give me an opinion) -- When a child has

apraxia, and is diagnosed as

> " processing more slowly " than normal -- are the two related?

>

[Guest guest]

Go Josh! You must inform that doc.

> Right after I posted my message I thought about the fact

that

> apraxia 'is' a motor planning disorder so thanks for bringing this

up

> Sherry! Yes you are correct that apraxia is a motor planning

> disorder and at times they will take longer to do things based on

> their motor planning disorder -but that doesn't exactly mean that

our

> children have " slow processing " in regards to a cognitive/receptive

> angle/separate diagnosis which is the direction I based the emails

> when auditory processing as a diagnosis was brought up. Even to the

> general public the words " This is why I brought up partial

paralysis

> as an example. Again you can't judge one's ability on their

> disability. So yes an apraxic child may tie his shoe slower, but

> that doesn't mean he cognitively doesn't understand what he 'needs'

> to do -he has trouble executing the motor skills needed to perform

> the task as quickly as he wants. So an apraxic has slow processing

> on actions -not slow processing on thoughts. There is a difference.

> As you know as a mom -our children desperately at times know what

> they want to say or do -but can't. I just as always want to make

> sure that those with apraxia are not underestimated -so I will

always

> be the one (at times lone) voice that believes in the untapped

> ability of that verbal disabled child.

>

> " Never underestimate the power of dreams and the influence of the

> human spirit. We are all the same in this notion: The potential for

> greatness lives within each of us. "

> Wilma Rudolph quotes (First American woman Runner to win three gold

> medals at a single Olympics. 1940-1994)

>

> =====

>

[Guest guest]

LOL Crazy women! My hubby loved that!

[sPAM]Re: [ ] Re: Apraxia and Slow Processing

>

>

> Absolutely, - I've been around this board for quite some time and

> you know I would never underestimate what our kiddoes are capable of

> accomplishing! Yikes, when you figure that evil doc originally saying Josh

> had MR, would never walk unassisted, would never speak intelligibly - and

> look what he's accomplished over the years! I never meant to imply that

> our kiddoes have some cognitive issues or muscle tone issues or sensory

> issues affecting their ability to process - unless, of course, that has

> been

> a proper diagnosis in addition to the apraxia (which, in Josh's case, it

> has). So, as I wrote, apraxia is a motor planning disorder which, in and

> of itself, does affect the processing of the neurological messages.

>

> Sherry and Josh (who, notwithstanding what the evil doc said years ago,

> was a gold medal winner in Special Olympic basketball skills and will be

> going to the State competition next month! HAH! to that doc!!!)

>

> kiddietalk <kiddietalk@...> wrote:

> Right after I posted my message I thought about the fact that

> apraxia 'is' a motor planning disorder so thanks for bringing this up

> Sherry! Yes you are correct that apraxia is a motor planning

> disorder and at times they will take longer to do things based on

> their motor planning disorder -but that doesn't exactly mean that our

> children have " slow processing " in regards to a cognitive/receptive

> angle/separate diagnosis which is the direction I based the emails

> when auditory processing as a diagnosis was brought up. Even to the

> general public the words " This is why I brought up partial paralysis

> as an example. Again you can't judge one's ability on their

> disability. So yes an apraxic child may tie his shoe slower, but

> that doesn't mean he cognitively doesn't understand what he 'needs'

> to do -he has trouble executing the motor skills needed to perform

> the task as quickly as he wants. So an apraxic has slow processing

> on actions -not slow processing on thoughts. There is a difference.

> As you know as a mom -our children desperately at times know what

> they want to say or do -but can't. I just as always want to make

> sure that those with apraxia are not underestimated -so I will always

> be the one (at times lone) voice that believes in the untapped

> ability of that verbal disabled child.

>

> " Never underestimate the power of dreams and the influence of the

> human spirit. We are all the same in this notion: The potential for

> greatness lives within each of us. "

> Wilma Rudolph quotes (First American woman Runner to win three gold

> medals at a single Olympics. 1940-1994)

>

> =====

>

[Guest guest]

My friends.....

I have to agree.... with both of you(!).... that word 'processing' is awefully

vague and doesn't really tell us a whole lot. Every thing in our bodies is a

'process' of some sort. Our intellect is comprised of so many variables that to

simply say a child has slow 'processing' is really a cop-out. My digestive

system is also a 'process' and has nothing to do with my knowledge base or

intellect. The key is to locate 'which' process (es) is not functioning up to

speed and to remediate it.

This is the key and it can be done extremely successfully with the 'right'

professional or therapeutic approach. If we don't have a therapy to fix

something, then it simply means that we haven't developed it yet, not that our

child lacks the ability to overcome and heal whatever ailment he/she may have.

Our children are not limited by their label but have unlimited potential.

Thus 'slow' processing is a demeaning term orchastrated by a person who is

obviously ill-qualified to professionally assess a child with any proficiency!

It is a polite way of saying MR! (and not too polite at that!)

While my child 'HAD' (past tense as this is remedied now) poor auditory

processing, his visual processing was off the charts and he was years and years

ahead of his

age group (7 years ahead of his age-group to be exact!) Yet.... to a casual

observer, he too seemed 'slow'. But, he was actually extremely gifted and

uniquely intelligent. Our children quite often 'hide' their gifts but usually

they are in there.... just waiting to be discovered and displayed to the world!

So.... please do not believe this person if they want to pigeon hole your child

as being 'slow'. Our kids are a lot more complex and more interesting than this

professional realizes. Stick around for a while and hear about our kids and

what we are learning about them.

Here and there you will find gems that completely apply to your child. Do not

get overwhelmed by discussions of chemical toxicity, special diets, etc. Take

it slow and read the posts without giving up on us 'crazy' women too soon.

Together we are forging a path to unlock the various secrets of our

children...... They are all wonderful children and so full of promise!

Janice

Mother of Mark, 13

[sPAM]Re: [ ] Re: Apraxia and Slow Processing

Absolutely, - I've been around this board for quite some time and you

know I would never underestimate what our kiddoes are capable of accomplishing!

Yikes, when you figure that evil doc originally saying Josh had MR, would never

walk unassisted, would never speak intelligibly - and look what he's

accomplished over the years! I never meant to imply that our kiddoes have some

cognitive issues or muscle tone issues or sensory issues affecting their ability

to process - unless, of course, that has been a proper diagnosis in addition to

the apraxia (which, in Josh's case, it has). So, as I wrote, apraxia is a motor

planning disorder which, in and of itself, does affect the processing of the

neurological messages.

Sherry and Josh (who, notwithstanding what the evil doc said years ago, was a

gold medal winner in Special Olympic basketball skills and will be going to the

State competition next month! HAH! to that doc!!!)

kiddietalk <kiddietalk@...> wrote:

Right after I posted my message I thought about the fact that

apraxia 'is' a motor planning disorder so thanks for bringing this up

Sherry! Yes you are correct that apraxia is a motor planning

disorder and at times they will take longer to do things based on

their motor planning disorder -but that doesn't exactly mean that our

children have " slow processing " in regards to a cognitive/receptive

angle/separate diagnosis which is the direction I based the emails

when auditory processing as a diagnosis was brought up. Even to the

general public the words " This is why I brought up partial paralysis

as an example. Again you can't judge one's ability on their

disability. So yes an apraxic child may tie his shoe slower, but

that doesn't mean he cognitively doesn't understand what he 'needs'

to do -he has trouble executing the motor skills needed to perform

the task as quickly as he wants. So an apraxic has slow processing

on actions -not slow processing on thoughts. There is a difference.

As you know as a mom -our children desperately at times know what

they want to say or do -but can't. I just as always want to make

sure that those with apraxia are not underestimated -so I will always

be the one (at times lone) voice that believes in the untapped

ability of that verbal disabled child.

" Never underestimate the power of dreams and the influence of the

human spirit. We are all the same in this notion: The potential for

greatness lives within each of us. "

Wilma Rudolph quotes (First American woman Runner to win three gold

medals at a single Olympics. 1940-1994)

=====

[Guest guest]

,

Because we have older children and have experienced the 'stupidity' of the

'system', we have a better understanding of the word 'slow' and the insidious

nature to which many of the professionals out there use it..... It is a one way

ticket to special education..... and 'opportunities' class....

I say... Run Forest, RUN! Yes, I do jokingly call my boy Forest Gump.... but I

have to run myself for he gives me a chase & a threat at my joke. (yes, he does

get it!)

In the educational system, SLOW processing is not used in a nice way....

Usually people use the word 'slow' to mean mental retardation of some sort. In

actuality, Marks original IQ tests in grade 2, described him as being borderline

mentally handicapped with regards to non-verbal persuits. I have it in black

and white.... Unbelievable!

Now, once they state this about your child at the tender age of 8, it is assumed

to be never-changing and a testament to that childs abilities.... FOREVER!!!

That is your child's life-promise as per the educational system. This is a

BAAAAAAD thing for it forever limits your child within the system.

This is sooooo wrong!

I listened to these people who encouraged me to do 'nothing' for my child and so

my child did not improve. As soon as I researched and found help for my child,

everything turned around and he got better. His IQ has definately changed and

someday (when I have extra $$$), I shall have him retested to prove it!

So.... Liz and all of you with little ones..... if you wonder why , myself

and others 'react' so reflexively to the word slow as though we have been

back-handed across the face.... this is the reason. We have had such aweful

experiences with the system and with others (usually complete idiots) who assume

that our kids are stupid. They only see what is in front of them and perform

the 'easy' diagnosis. They do not look beneath the surface to the diamond that

sparkles and glows beneath the rough exterior.... our children are truly....

diamonds in the rough!

Janice

Mother of Mark, 13

[sPAM][ ] Re: Apraxia and Slow Processing

Liz there is much in the archives and in research about self-

fulfilling prophecies and the research of Dr. Rosenthal. Please

don't assume that it's OK because your child is younger to say your

child is " slow " in three areas! There is a huge problem with many

here assuming that apraxia and processing disorders co exist or that

children with apraxia have slow receptive/cognitive processing skills

which is also a sign of mental retardation. And the fact so many

today are accepting this is very sad. Perhaps unlike the children

here from over the years like my son Tanner -the children in the

group today won't be mainstreamed. Is that the belief? Because

belief becomes reality and you get to choose now. Your child's

future depends in some part on your belief. Isn't it a mother and

father's instinct to raise our child up?

And to answer the question about therapy for another diagnosis

working. Many here with autistic children found some of the methods

used for apraxia to work as well. The Kaufman Kit can be used by any

late talker- even one that isn't apraxic.

We tried various therapies for Tanner that are used for deaf children

including learning sign -that doesn't mean Tanner is deaf. Just

because a therapy helps doesn't mean a child has the diagnosis that

therapy was originally designed for.

Please do some homework on the awesome Dr. Rosenthal and the

work he has done. You will also find much about him in the

archives. Sadly if you believe your child to be slow..in three areas

no less -you 'are' probably going to find out you are right. When

nobody else believed in Tanner Glenn and I did and guess who proved

everyone but us wrong -not us -but Tanner did! I loved sharing the whole

story with Dr. Rosenthal because he is brilliant and he is the one

that inspired me. And I saw it work. They could have been right and

Tanner would have been in special ed today.

http://www.cherab.org/information/familiesrelate/letter.html

I know some of you don't understand this -but again don't assume the

worst and don't underestimate those that can't verbally prove you

wrong...yet. Sometimes it's best to be wrong and if you believe

apraxia and slow processing of receptive or cognitive skills go hand

in hand -then you 'are' wrong. Apraxia is not a cognitive disorder.

And even if in your child's case you were right and for example one's

child has co existing mental retardation with the apraxia -you are

still best to believe in your child and give the benefit of the

doubt. Look at Robin's daughter -it's a hard pill to swallow

to be wrong -or assume others are right with bogus diagnosis about

your child - years down the road.

http://www.cherab.org/news/.html

And while for ethical reasons Dr. Rosenthal's research was done in

the positive -in speaking with him he agrees that it works both

ways. If that's the case why think anything but the positive?

http://www.facultydirectory.ucr.edu/cgi-bin/pub/public_individual.pl?faculty=534

http://www.pineforge.com/newman4study/resources/rosenthal1.htm

http://www.psichi.org/pubs/articles/article_121.asp

http://www.accel-team.com/pygmalion/prophecy_01.html

http://www.musicedmagic.com/class-management/classroom-vision-and-the-self-fulfi\

lling-prophecy.html

http://www.motivation-tools.com/workplace/social_prejudice.htm

tons more -just google it or search the archives here

=====

[Guest guest]

I do believe my and my childrens digestive processing, impaired as it

was, dis affect and in fact compromise the full expression of their

intellect and knoeledge base.

Turns out I have a kid with good visual processing and bad auditory

and the reverse in the other kid.

As for overwhelming posts, try these books...much more succinct:

Is this Your Child

The A's by Dr. Bock

Feast without yeast

Sincerely,

A crazy mom

> Right after I posted my message I thought about the fact that

> apraxia 'is' a motor planning disorder so thanks for bringing

this up

> Sherry! Yes you are correct that apraxia is a motor planning

> disorder and at times they will take longer to do things based on

> their motor planning disorder -but that doesn't exactly mean that

our

> children have " slow processing " in regards to a

cognitive/receptive

> angle/separate diagnosis which is the direction I based the

emails

> when auditory processing as a diagnosis was brought up. Even to

the

> general public the words " This is why I brought up partial

paralysis

> as an example. Again you can't judge one's ability on their

> disability. So yes an apraxic child may tie his shoe slower, but

> that doesn't mean he cognitively doesn't understand what

he 'needs'

> to do -he has trouble executing the motor skills needed to

perform

> the task as quickly as he wants. So an apraxic has slow

processing

> on actions -not slow processing on thoughts. There is a

difference.

> As you know as a mom -our children desperately at times know what

> they want to say or do -but can't. I just as always want to make

> sure that those with apraxia are not underestimated -so I will

always

> be the one (at times lone) voice that believes in the untapped

> ability of that verbal disabled child.

>

> " Never underestimate the power of dreams and the influence of the

> human spirit. We are all the same in this notion: The potential

for

> greatness lives within each of us. "

> Wilma Rudolph quotes (First American woman Runner to win three

gold

> medals at a single Olympics. 1940-1994)

>

> =====

>

[Guest guest]

Oh no, I get it. It is thanks to parents like you and who fought

for proper treatment of our children that moms like me with little

ones have an easier time of it and a better path for our children.

Many thanks to you, , and all the moms and caregivers who blaxed

that trail making it far easier for us newbies.

>

> ,

>

> Because we have older children and have experienced the 'stupidity'

of the 'system', we have a better understanding of the word 'slow'

and the insidious nature to which many of the professionals out there

use it..... It is a one way ticket to special education.....

and 'opportunities' class....

>

> I say... Run Forest, RUN! Yes, I do jokingly call my boy Forest

Gump.... but I have to run myself for he gives me a chase & a threat

at my joke. (yes, he does get it!)

>

> In the educational system, SLOW processing is not used in a nice

way.... Usually people use the word 'slow' to mean mental

retardation of some sort. In actuality, Marks original IQ tests in

grade 2, described him as being borderline mentally handicapped with

regards to non-verbal persuits. I have it in black and white....

Unbelievable!

>

> Now, once they state this about your child at the tender age of 8,

it is assumed to be never-changing and a testament to that childs

abilities.... FOREVER!!! That is your child's life-promise as per

the educational system. This is a BAAAAAAD thing for it forever

limits your child within the system.

>

> This is sooooo wrong!

>

> I listened to these people who encouraged me to do 'nothing' for my

child and so my child did not improve. As soon as I researched and

found help for my child, everything turned around and he got better.

His IQ has definately changed and someday (when I have extra $$$), I

shall have him retested to prove it!

>

> So.... Liz and all of you with little ones..... if you wonder why

, myself and others 'react' so reflexively to the word slow as

though we have been back-handed across the face.... this is the

reason. We have had such aweful experiences with the system and with

others (usually complete idiots) who assume that our kids are

stupid. They only see what is in front of them and perform

the 'easy' diagnosis. They do not look beneath the surface to the

diamond that sparkles and glows beneath the rough exterior.... our

children are truly.... diamonds in the rough!

>

> Janice

> Mother of Mark, 13

>

>

>

> [sPAM][ ] Re: Apraxia and Slow

Processing

>

>

> Liz there is much in the archives and in research about self-

> fulfilling prophecies and the research of Dr. Rosenthal. Please

> don't assume that it's OK because your child is younger to say

your

> child is " slow " in three areas! There is a huge problem with many

> here assuming that apraxia and processing disorders co exist or

that

> children with apraxia have slow receptive/cognitive processing

skills

> which is also a sign of mental retardation. And the fact so many

> today are accepting this is very sad. Perhaps unlike the children

> here from over the years like my son Tanner -the children in the

> group today won't be mainstreamed. Is that the belief? Because

> belief becomes reality and you get to choose now. Your child's

> future depends in some part on your belief. Isn't it a mother and

> father's instinct to raise our child up?

>

> And to answer the question about therapy for another diagnosis

> working. Many here with autistic children found some of the

methods

> used for apraxia to work as well. The Kaufman Kit can be used by

any

> late talker- even one that isn't apraxic.

>

> We tried various therapies for Tanner that are used for deaf

children

> including learning sign -that doesn't mean Tanner is deaf. Just

> because a therapy helps doesn't mean a child has the diagnosis

that

> therapy was originally designed for.

>

> Please do some homework on the awesome Dr. Rosenthal and

the

> work he has done. You will also find much about him in the

> archives. Sadly if you believe your child to be slow..in three

areas

> no less -you 'are' probably going to find out you are right. When

> nobody else believed in Tanner Glenn and I did and guess who

proved

> everyone but us wrong -not us -but Tanner did! I loved sharing

the whole

> story with Dr. Rosenthal because he is brilliant and he is the

one

> that inspired me. And I saw it work. They could have been right

and

> Tanner would have been in special ed today.

> http://www.cherab.org/information/familiesrelate/letter.html

>

> I know some of you don't understand this -but again don't assume

the

> worst and don't underestimate those that can't verbally prove you

> wrong...yet. Sometimes it's best to be wrong and if you believe

> apraxia and slow processing of receptive or cognitive skills go

hand

> in hand -then you 'are' wrong. Apraxia is not a cognitive

disorder.

>

> And even if in your child's case you were right and for example

one's

> child has co existing mental retardation with the apraxia -you

are

> still best to believe in your child and give the benefit of the

> doubt. Look at Robin's daughter -it's a hard pill to

swallow

> to be wrong -or assume others are right with bogus diagnosis

about

> your child - years down the road.

> http://www.cherab.org/news/.html

>

> And while for ethical reasons Dr. Rosenthal's research was done

in

> the positive -in speaking with him he agrees that it works both

> ways. If that's the case why think anything but the positive?

>

> http://www.facultydirectory.ucr.edu/cgi-

bin/pub/public_individual.pl?faculty=534

> http://www.pineforge.com/newman4study/resources/rosenthal1.htm

> http://www.psichi.org/pubs/articles/article_121.asp

> http://www.accel-team.com/pygmalion/prophecy_01.html

> http://www.musicedmagic.com/class-management/classroom-vision-and-

the-self-fulfilling-prophecy.html

> http://www.motivation-tools.com/workplace/social_prejudice.htm

>

> tons more -just google it or search the archives here

>

> =====

>

[Guest guest]

I want to go further with my praise for the moms of older kids and

moms of kids in school. Make no mistake, I could never, ever do what

you do. If I had to sit through meetings with people who were

labeling my kid without a grasp of who he is or what he can do...his

true potential, well, let me describe what the scene of 's IEP

would be like: " Picture a 41 year old redhead in an orange jumpsuit

with duct tape on her mouth sitting between to her long-suffering and

patient husband and the police officer the school brought in to keep

the peace. This is one of the many reasons I am homeschooling.

Joke of it is I was, back in the day, a very obedient and quiet

student and remained that way as an adult...until this. My voice

comes out in writing I suppose. My passion comes out whem the subject

is near and dear to me, as my family is.

>

> ,

>

> Because we have older children and have experienced the 'stupidity'

of the 'system', we have a better understanding of the word 'slow'

and the insidious nature to which many of the professionals out there

use it..... It is a one way ticket to special education.....

and 'opportunities' class....

>

> I say... Run Forest, RUN! Yes, I do jokingly call my boy Forest

Gump.... but I have to run myself for he gives me a chase & a threat

at my joke. (yes, he does get it!)

>

> In the educational system, SLOW processing is not used in a nice

way.... Usually people use the word 'slow' to mean mental

retardation of some sort. In actuality, Marks original IQ tests in

grade 2, described him as being borderline mentally handicapped with

regards to non-verbal persuits. I have it in black and white....

Unbelievable!

>

> Now, once they state this about your child at the tender age of 8,

it is assumed to be never-changing and a testament to that childs

abilities.... FOREVER!!! That is your child's life-promise as per

the educational system. This is a BAAAAAAD thing for it forever

limits your child within the system.

>

> This is sooooo wrong!

>

> I listened to these people who encouraged me to do 'nothing' for my

child and so my child did not improve. As soon as I researched and

found help for my child, everything turned around and he got better.

His IQ has definately changed and someday (when I have extra $$$), I

shall have him retested to prove it!

>

> So.... Liz and all of you with little ones..... if you wonder why

, myself and others 'react' so reflexively to the word slow as

though we have been back-handed across the face.... this is the

reason. We have had such aweful experiences with the system and with

others (usually complete idiots) who assume that our kids are

stupid. They only see what is in front of them and perform

the 'easy' diagnosis. They do not look beneath the surface to the

diamond that sparkles and glows beneath the rough exterior.... our

children are truly.... diamonds in the rough!

>

> Janice

> Mother of Mark, 13

>

>

>

> [sPAM][ ] Re: Apraxia and Slow

Processing

>

>

> Liz there is much in the archives and in research about self-

> fulfilling prophecies and the research of Dr. Rosenthal. Please

> don't assume that it's OK because your child is younger to say

your

> child is " slow " in three areas! There is a huge problem with many

> here assuming that apraxia and processing disorders co exist or

that

> children with apraxia have slow receptive/cognitive processing

skills

> which is also a sign of mental retardation. And the fact so many

> today are accepting this is very sad. Perhaps unlike the children

> here from over the years like my son Tanner -the children in the

> group today won't be mainstreamed. Is that the belief? Because

> belief becomes reality and you get to choose now. Your child's

> future depends in some part on your belief. Isn't it a mother and

> father's instinct to raise our child up?

>

> And to answer the question about therapy for another diagnosis

> working. Many here with autistic children found some of the

methods

> used for apraxia to work as well. The Kaufman Kit can be used by

any

> late talker- even one that isn't apraxic.

>

> We tried various therapies for Tanner that are used for deaf

children

> including learning sign -that doesn't mean Tanner is deaf. Just

> because a therapy helps doesn't mean a child has the diagnosis

that

> therapy was originally designed for.

>

> Please do some homework on the awesome Dr. Rosenthal and

the

> work he has done. You will also find much about him in the

> archives. Sadly if you believe your child to be slow..in three

areas

> no less -you 'are' probably going to find out you are right. When

> nobody else believed in Tanner Glenn and I did and guess who

proved

> everyone but us wrong -not us -but Tanner did! I loved sharing

the whole

> story with Dr. Rosenthal because he is brilliant and he is the

one

> that inspired me. And I saw it work. They could have been right

and

> Tanner would have been in special ed today.

> http://www.cherab.org/information/familiesrelate/letter.html

>

> I know some of you don't understand this -but again don't assume

the

> worst and don't underestimate those that can't verbally prove you

> wrong...yet. Sometimes it's best to be wrong and if you believe

> apraxia and slow processing of receptive or cognitive skills go

hand

> in hand -then you 'are' wrong. Apraxia is not a cognitive

disorder.

>

> And even if in your child's case you were right and for example

one's

> child has co existing mental retardation with the apraxia -you

are

> still best to believe in your child and give the benefit of the

> doubt. Look at Robin's daughter -it's a hard pill to

swallow

> to be wrong -or assume others are right with bogus diagnosis

about

> your child - years down the road.

> http://www.cherab.org/news/.html

>

> And while for ethical reasons Dr. Rosenthal's research was done

in

> the positive -in speaking with him he agrees that it works both

> ways. If that's the case why think anything but the positive?

>

> http://www.facultydirectory.ucr.edu/cgi-

bin/pub/public_individual.pl?faculty=534

> http://www.pineforge.com/newman4study/resources/rosenthal1.htm

> http://www.psichi.org/pubs/articles/article_121.asp

> http://www.accel-team.com/pygmalion/prophecy_01.html

> http://www.musicedmagic.com/class-management/classroom-vision-and-

the-self-fulfilling-prophecy.html

> http://www.motivation-tools.com/workplace/social_prejudice.htm

>

> tons more -just google it or search the archives here

>

> =====

>

[Guest guest]

Well said Janice! Thanks for being there as another " old timer " !!

And you are right - Forrest Gump as a movie is a great example of a

mother's belief in her child. " Run Forrest Run! "

My " old timer " favorite of course is Helen Keller -and her story is a

testimony to teachers as well.

" Helen's key achievement the one she craved most of all was learning

how to speak " Learn how she did and learn how she says

(oh this is so profound isn't it)

" I am not dumb now "

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0uBlIDp9CWY

=====

[Guest guest]

,

I have been meaning to write you back about getting the boys in touch with one

another. I broached the subject to Mark the other day and he seemed curious to

talk to another dyspraxic kid even though he doesn't do well with the telephone.

He thought it might be easier if it were speakerphone? I have been so

absolutely ill this past week that I just have been 'getting through' but we

haven't forgotten this idea.... let me recover and we will give it a shot?

Question: Does Tanner sweat?

This is one of the next things up on our agenda with the environmental

doctor.... getting Mark to start sweating. He rarely breaks a sweat even after

running 4 or 5 kms in a cross country run!

I understood it when he was younger but he should be sweating by now. The most

he gets is a little clammy behind his neck. So to sweat is to detox..... we

must get him to sweat!

Hence.... an infared sauna is the next item on the 'big' ticket list.

My doctor is so funny. We sit in his office, we first discuss how Mark is

doing, how he is faring, and look at any health protocols that we should be

changing. Then he will slap his hand on a chess timer, and will say..... are

you ready for your environmental lesson dear? And then we start..... and I

learn all about excitotoxins, mold, water, dishware, Pabain (bad stuff, in the

lotions, sunscreen & creams), and electromagnectic energy and why my son cannot

handle these things and how to reduce his exposure while he is detoxing. It is

actually a very 'cool' experience.

One of the things that I learned is that smelling is worse than inhalation with

regards to chemical sensitivity. When you smell a toxic substance in through

your nose, it crosses the blood/brain barrier which is why we will often get a

headache to noxious fumes. When you inhale a toxic substance, the bodies

natural filtration system kicks in and you are not as adversely affected; the

blood brain barrier is not crossed. This is why the 'smell' of household

cleaners and such is often very hard on our children. It goes straight to their

head!

Janice

Mother of Mark, 13

[sPAM]Re:[ ] Re: Apraxia and Slow Processing

Well said Janice! Thanks for being there as another " old timer " !!

And you are right - Forrest Gump as a movie is a great example of a

mother's belief in her child. " Run Forrest Run! "

My " old timer " favorite of course is Helen Keller -and her story is a

testimony to teachers as well.

" Helen's key achievement the one she craved most of all was learning

how to speak " Learn how she did and learn how she says

(oh this is so profound isn't it)

" I am not dumb now "

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0uBlIDp9CWY

=====

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 2/5/2008 9:40:30 A.M. Eastern Standard Time,

lizlaw@... writes:

I had a similar reaction when a friend at lunch the other week

said " is almost normal now, right? " This is a woman, a

scientist, who is pregnant and recently overreacted to a prematurely

done ultrasound and almost aborted her child because there was a

suggestion of shortened femur.

Oh my!!! I can't even go there with this sort of mom who thinks this ways

let alone makes that sort of comment to another mom of a special needs

child!!!!

Good thing she said it to YOU and not ME, because I'm not so sure I would

have been as patient as you were with that comment.

for the record-- according to my last U/S about 3wks ago, the baby's femur

was measuring shorter in length than they wanted. They spent an INORDINANT

amount of time looking at every single detail of the baby's heart, and the U/S

was well over an hour and half almost! I was just slightly annoyed, because I

feel they over react with this sort of thing, and that the femur length is

NOT a marker for down's syndrome but is simply something they " look for " . Of

course I have to go back next week so they can measure the length again, but

seriously-- they just worry moms so unnecessarily so!

And the thought of going in for yet ANOTHER Ultra Sound, REALLY bothers me

greatly. I do NOT buy the whole " they're perfectly safe " thing-- I just don't

agree and I can't stand that they are putting the baby at MORE risk, I feel,

to continue having all these ultrasounds.

<sigh>

bek

**************Biggest Grammy Award surprises of all time on AOL Music.

(http://music.aol.com/grammys/pictures/never-won-a-grammy?NCID=aolcmp00300000002\

5

48)

[Guest guest]

Interesting . Again you are the youtube finder of great things.

My son started Prompt Therapy (sort of a hybrid therapy with prompt

mixed in as he is talking unprompted). Since I am new to this I may

get this wrong but when watching this it dawned on me that Helen

learning to speak occurred from sort of a reverse Prompt Therapy kind

of intervention. Very cool.

>

> Well said Janice! Thanks for being there as another " old timer " !!

> And you are right - Forrest Gump as a movie is a great example of a

> mother's belief in her child. " Run Forrest Run! "

>

> My " old timer " favorite of course is Helen Keller -and her story is

a

> testimony to teachers as well.

> " Helen's key achievement the one she craved most of all was learning

> how to speak " Learn how she did and learn how she says

> (oh this is so profound isn't it)

> " I am not dumb now "

> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0uBlIDp9CWY

>

> =====

>

[Guest guest]

I had a similar reaction when a friend at lunch the other week

said " is almost normal now, right? " This is a woman, a

scientist, who is pregnant and recently overreacted to a prematurely

done ultrasound and almost aborted her child because there was a

suggestion of shortened femur. Not trying to stir up the abortion

debate here at all and was not trying to stir it up with her. Instead

I spent the weeks between her early ultrasound and the gentic testing

results (that came out fine and the femur is now the correct size)

encouraging her to recalculate dates, look at the promise and hope of

NACD kids, etc. I also asked her to get a water filter (shameless I

know but she is doing it because she grew up in fluoridated Canada

and lives in a particularly toxic part of NJ and works in a

pharmaceutical plant where all the goodies are manufactured) and I

pointed her to more expansive research on the femur issue that was

encouraging. She told another friend that I supported her in ways she

thought not possible. I am not saying that to pat myself on the back

(it was my job as a friend) but rather to express that despite how

annoying I can be she received the info well. (I also gave it to her

piecemeal after assessing if it was appropriate...there was no master

plan to bombard her, it was about support). So, she was not the first

person I was expecting to drudge up the whole " normal " comment.

Still, I think it was her way of saying " He's doing well isn't he? " I

won't lie though, it still hurt.

>

>

> In a message dated 2/4/2008 5:28:04 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,

> kiddietalk@... writes:

>

> Even to the

> general public the words " This is why I brought up partial

paralysis

> as an example. Again you can't judge one's ability on their

> disability. So yes an apraxic child may tie his shoe slower, but

> that doesn't mean he cognitively doesn't understand what

he 'needs'

> to do -he has trouble executing the motor skills needed to perform

> the task as quickly as he wants. So an apraxic has slow processing

> on actions -not slow processing on thoughts. There is a

difference.

>

>

>

>

>

>

> I agree with this statement, but just wanted to point out that

there are so

> many different things that people may be referring to when they

use the term

> " slow processing " in reference to our kids.

> I don't think that most people MEAN to offend with this term, but

rather

> lack ANOTHER term to use that might describe the thought behind

what they are

> referring to.

>

> I know that I sometimes think of Asa as having " slow processing "

even while

> the child is literally a genius and I KNOW he has no problem with

processing

> the THOUGHTS of things, but of course, since it's a motor planning

problem, I

> know he has the problem of EXECUTION to those tasks-- so it can

actually be,

> depending on how a person is using the term-- can be, in fact, slow

> processing. (even though we know it's not the processing on the

thoughts or brain)

> I dunno if I'm saying this to make sense, because I AGREE with what

you've

> said above, because my son has Global Apraxia/Developmental

Dyspraxia, so I've

> seen those looks people give when they assume he's " not all there "

and that

> he's " slow " , and there's nothing further from the truth! But I

think they

> just lack the FULL UNDERSTANDING of the condition, so the terms

can sometimes be

> misused or used in an incorrect situation.

>

>

> Becky

>

>

>

> **************Biggest Grammy Award surprises of all time on AOL

Music.

> (http://music.aol.com/grammys/pictures/never-won-a-grammy?

NCID=aolcmp003000000025

> 48)

>

>

>