Guest guest Posted July 13, 2001 Report Share Posted July 13, 2001 When I did my MMPI for I lied my ass off on it. I also lied to the toad of a Dr. she had me see who " evaluated " the MMPI test. He was a moron and a jerk. There was no way I was getting into anything heavier than my weight issues (pun intended) with this dork. At one point he looked at my MMPI and then looked at me under his glasses and said, " Well, it says you have SOME self esteem. " He was nasty like that throughout the process. After I decided not to use , I asked the Dr. to fax my psych eval to my new Dr. who worked for Rabkin. Well, I gave them MY fax number to see what he wrote to about me. He stated I was irritable and annoyed at the first meeting. He didn't mention that it was because they scheduled me at noon and then didn't show up until 1:30pm and I had to drive 4 hours one way to see them. I didn't really appreciate waiting the extra hour and a half. Then when they got there it was " well, we usually don't schedule people at that time. " Well, fucking duh! Then don't schedule me for that time. That's why I was irritated and annoyed. I guess I was supposed to kiss their asses for them bothering to see me. Fuck that! And fuck them! I sent the report on to Rabkin's psych guy. We had a pleasant chat on the phone and he said taking the MMPI was worthless. He cleared me just by talking to me. He also said, " Hey, I'm not going to deny anyone. Even crazy people deserve a chance to be thin! " My hero. Donna June 13th DS Rabkin > > Leonard said: > > Message: 16 > > Date: Wed, 11 Jul 2001 19:20:14 -0700 (PDT) > > From: Garguy <thepflanz@y...> > > Subject: Re: Re: What can we learn from ? > > > > Dear Psychology Experts, > > > > Eliminating people from having WLS because they do not > > have 'normal' > > psychosocial backup or > > support groups is going to eliminate most guys, in my > > limited > > experience, from much needed WLS for > > super and plain old morbid obesity. I was at a WLS > > meeting the other > > night, and not one of the > > humungous guys there had any such backup. So you are > > projecting your > > values on the population of > > all fatties. You cannot, generally speaking, diagnose > > accurately mental > > illness by a single trait > > such as whether or not someone has plenty of support, > > nor can you > > predict how someone is going to > > react to an unknown complex of post-surgical > > 'challenges'. Life ain't > > that simple. Preliminary > > diagnoses using DSMs, which is how the shrinks do it, > > normally involves > > a constellation of traits > > or behaviors; nor are their diagnostics the last word > > on anything, for > > that matter. > > > > These psychological exams are a can of worms. They are > > rejecting people > > because they don't like > > doctors or have antisocial feelings, etc. They have > > you believing in > > their voodoo. There are > > simply too many variables involved and insufficient > > data to make > > realistic predictions as to what > > could happen post-surgically. This is like trying to > > predict the > > weather a month from now. It's > > all guesswork. The ASBS surgical guidelines, which are > > the specialty > > guidelines, do not deny > > surgery to anyone unless they are obviously psychotic. > > This means that > > all of us neurotic, > > finger-nail-biting fatsos who are ready to burst into > > tears the moment > > someone looks cross-eyed at > > us should be able to get surgery. It also means that > > you are being > > hassled about your psychic > > state by surgeons who are a little confused about > > psychological issues. > > The NIH guidelines really > > don't say anything different, though they amount to a > > plea to use as > > many disciplines as the > > surgeons find necessary. This is why the dietitians > > and the shrinks are > > getting a piece of the > > pie. The surgeons are just being generous with the > > insurance companies > > or your money. > > > > As far as post-operative depression goes, you should > > be expecting some > > of those experiencing > > massive weight loss to have bouts of depression > > related to their weight > > loss or to their > > post-surgical morbidities. There is nothing wrong with > > having these > > bouts. There is, however, > > something wrong in worrying about what might be the > > etiology of any > > person's depression. You are > > playing God. The important thing is to get them > > treated along with the > > morbidities attending the > > surgery. What you ought to be doing, then, is helping > > to get some > > help rather than trying to > > come up with some grand insight. No one, not even the > > best shrink or > > the best test, could have > > predicted how would feel after her surgery, so > > all of this > > blathering about who gave her the > > okay is malarkey, too. Many people are negative about > > outcomes but > > positive as hell afterwards. > > Let's hope that gets some help and eventually > > gets positive. > > > > This shrink business has all the elements of Salem > > Massachusetts and > > witch hunting. It is obvious > > that it is being misused by these surgeons to predict > > outcomes that are > > unpredictable, and that > > they are using these tests to cover their asses when > > their asses would > > be better covered by simply > > giving better followup care of a medical, surgical, or > > psychiatric type > > when appropriate. > > > > ***************** > > > > to a certain extent I agree. > > I do believe that properly done psych evals might > > uncover persons who believe they will not succeed, or > > persons who have no support system. Those persons > > might be encouraged to identify support groups and to > > speak to successful post ops to build their " success > > mentality " before surgery. We all know that a positive > > mental outlook assists in a positive physical > > recovery. > > > > I think many of the psych evals are poorly thought out > > and not really effective. However, I've seen some > > posts from people that have really flipped out over > > the psych evals and most of them seem to end up not > > having surgery. > > > > I think a psych eval with a doctor who specializes in > > evaluating bariatric patients, and then possibly 2-3 > > pre-op visits and say 2-3 post op visits with a > > transition to a person's own mental health provider > > would be a good way to go. > > > > Dr. requires that people see psych docs on > > her team. That way, she knows that they know what to > > look for. I don't say that method is perfect but it's > > the best type of method I've seen to date. > > > > becki > > > > > > ===== > > Becki, near Portland, OR > > BMI 50-ish, age 42 > > pre-op DS. hoping to get approval > > through Aetna Traditional Choice > > (fighting 'investigational' denial) > > Consulted with Dr. on 3-13-01 > > psych ok, nutrition ok, beckeye_58@y... > > > > __________________________________________________ > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 13, 2001 Report Share Posted July 13, 2001 When I did my MMPI for I lied my ass off on it. I also lied to the toad of a Dr. she had me see who " evaluated " the MMPI test. He was a moron and a jerk. There was no way I was getting into anything heavier than my weight issues (pun intended) with this dork. At one point he looked at my MMPI and then looked at me under his glasses and said, " Well, it says you have SOME self esteem. " He was nasty like that throughout the process. After I decided not to use , I asked the Dr. to fax my psych eval to my new Dr. who worked for Rabkin. Well, I gave them MY fax number to see what he wrote to about me. He stated I was irritable and annoyed at the first meeting. He didn't mention that it was because they scheduled me at noon and then didn't show up until 1:30pm and I had to drive 4 hours one way to see them. I didn't really appreciate waiting the extra hour and a half. Then when they got there it was " well, we usually don't schedule people at that time. " Well, fucking duh! Then don't schedule me for that time. That's why I was irritated and annoyed. I guess I was supposed to kiss their asses for them bothering to see me. Fuck that! And fuck them! I sent the report on to Rabkin's psych guy. We had a pleasant chat on the phone and he said taking the MMPI was worthless. He cleared me just by talking to me. He also said, " Hey, I'm not going to deny anyone. Even crazy people deserve a chance to be thin! " My hero. Donna June 13th DS Rabkin > > Leonard said: > > Message: 16 > > Date: Wed, 11 Jul 2001 19:20:14 -0700 (PDT) > > From: Garguy <thepflanz@y...> > > Subject: Re: Re: What can we learn from ? > > > > Dear Psychology Experts, > > > > Eliminating people from having WLS because they do not > > have 'normal' > > psychosocial backup or > > support groups is going to eliminate most guys, in my > > limited > > experience, from much needed WLS for > > super and plain old morbid obesity. I was at a WLS > > meeting the other > > night, and not one of the > > humungous guys there had any such backup. So you are > > projecting your > > values on the population of > > all fatties. You cannot, generally speaking, diagnose > > accurately mental > > illness by a single trait > > such as whether or not someone has plenty of support, > > nor can you > > predict how someone is going to > > react to an unknown complex of post-surgical > > 'challenges'. Life ain't > > that simple. Preliminary > > diagnoses using DSMs, which is how the shrinks do it, > > normally involves > > a constellation of traits > > or behaviors; nor are their diagnostics the last word > > on anything, for > > that matter. > > > > These psychological exams are a can of worms. They are > > rejecting people > > because they don't like > > doctors or have antisocial feelings, etc. They have > > you believing in > > their voodoo. There are > > simply too many variables involved and insufficient > > data to make > > realistic predictions as to what > > could happen post-surgically. This is like trying to > > predict the > > weather a month from now. It's > > all guesswork. The ASBS surgical guidelines, which are > > the specialty > > guidelines, do not deny > > surgery to anyone unless they are obviously psychotic. > > This means that > > all of us neurotic, > > finger-nail-biting fatsos who are ready to burst into > > tears the moment > > someone looks cross-eyed at > > us should be able to get surgery. It also means that > > you are being > > hassled about your psychic > > state by surgeons who are a little confused about > > psychological issues. > > The NIH guidelines really > > don't say anything different, though they amount to a > > plea to use as > > many disciplines as the > > surgeons find necessary. This is why the dietitians > > and the shrinks are > > getting a piece of the > > pie. The surgeons are just being generous with the > > insurance companies > > or your money. > > > > As far as post-operative depression goes, you should > > be expecting some > > of those experiencing > > massive weight loss to have bouts of depression > > related to their weight > > loss or to their > > post-surgical morbidities. There is nothing wrong with > > having these > > bouts. There is, however, > > something wrong in worrying about what might be the > > etiology of any > > person's depression. You are > > playing God. The important thing is to get them > > treated along with the > > morbidities attending the > > surgery. What you ought to be doing, then, is helping > > to get some > > help rather than trying to > > come up with some grand insight. No one, not even the > > best shrink or > > the best test, could have > > predicted how would feel after her surgery, so > > all of this > > blathering about who gave her the > > okay is malarkey, too. Many people are negative about > > outcomes but > > positive as hell afterwards. > > Let's hope that gets some help and eventually > > gets positive. > > > > This shrink business has all the elements of Salem > > Massachusetts and > > witch hunting. It is obvious > > that it is being misused by these surgeons to predict > > outcomes that are > > unpredictable, and that > > they are using these tests to cover their asses when > > their asses would > > be better covered by simply > > giving better followup care of a medical, surgical, or > > psychiatric type > > when appropriate. > > > > ***************** > > > > to a certain extent I agree. > > I do believe that properly done psych evals might > > uncover persons who believe they will not succeed, or > > persons who have no support system. Those persons > > might be encouraged to identify support groups and to > > speak to successful post ops to build their " success > > mentality " before surgery. We all know that a positive > > mental outlook assists in a positive physical > > recovery. > > > > I think many of the psych evals are poorly thought out > > and not really effective. However, I've seen some > > posts from people that have really flipped out over > > the psych evals and most of them seem to end up not > > having surgery. > > > > I think a psych eval with a doctor who specializes in > > evaluating bariatric patients, and then possibly 2-3 > > pre-op visits and say 2-3 post op visits with a > > transition to a person's own mental health provider > > would be a good way to go. > > > > Dr. requires that people see psych docs on > > her team. That way, she knows that they know what to > > look for. I don't say that method is perfect but it's > > the best type of method I've seen to date. > > > > becki > > > > > > ===== > > Becki, near Portland, OR > > BMI 50-ish, age 42 > > pre-op DS. hoping to get approval > > through Aetna Traditional Choice > > (fighting 'investigational' denial) > > Consulted with Dr. on 3-13-01 > > psych ok, nutrition ok, beckeye_58@y... > > > > __________________________________________________ > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 14, 2001 Report Share Posted July 14, 2001 Wow - Donna, Thanks for sharing your experience. Your profanity, on the other hand, is not appreciated. Dina in Aloha, OR Age 37/BMI 61 Waiting for my consult with Dr. Hoping my new insurance will cover it all.... Re: Re: What can we learn from ? > > > > Dear Psychology Experts, > > > > Eliminating people from having WLS because they do not > > have 'normal' > > psychosocial backup or > > support groups is going to eliminate most guys, in my > > limited > > experience, from much needed WLS for > > super and plain old morbid obesity. I was at a WLS > > meeting the other > > night, and not one of the > > humungous guys there had any such backup. So you are > > projecting your > > values on the population of > > all fatties. You cannot, generally speaking, diagnose > > accurately mental > > illness by a single trait > > such as whether or not someone has plenty of support, > > nor can you > > predict how someone is going to > > react to an unknown complex of post-surgical > > 'challenges'. Life ain't > > that simple. Preliminary > > diagnoses using DSMs, which is how the shrinks do it, > > normally involves > > a constellation of traits > > or behaviors; nor are their diagnostics the last word > > on anything, for > > that matter. > > > > These psychological exams are a can of worms. They are > > rejecting people > > because they don't like > > doctors or have antisocial feelings, etc. They have > > you believing in > > their voodoo. There are > > simply too many variables involved and insufficient > > data to make > > realistic predictions as to what > > could happen post-surgically. This is like trying to > > predict the > > weather a month from now. It's > > all guesswork. The ASBS surgical guidelines, which are > > the specialty > > guidelines, do not deny > > surgery to anyone unless they are obviously psychotic. > > This means that > > all of us neurotic, > > finger-nail-biting fatsos who are ready to burst into > > tears the moment > > someone looks cross-eyed at > > us should be able to get surgery. It also means that > > you are being > > hassled about your psychic > > state by surgeons who are a little confused about > > psychological issues. > > The NIH guidelines really > > don't say anything different, though they amount to a > > plea to use as > > many disciplines as the > > surgeons find necessary. This is why the dietitians > > and the shrinks are > > getting a piece of the > > pie. The surgeons are just being generous with the > > insurance companies > > or your money. > > > > As far as post-operative depression goes, you should > > be expecting some > > of those experiencing > > massive weight loss to have bouts of depression > > related to their weight > > loss or to their > > post-surgical morbidities. There is nothing wrong with > > having these > > bouts. There is, however, > > something wrong in worrying about what might be the > > etiology of any > > person's depression. You are > > playing God. The important thing is to get them > > treated along with the > > morbidities attending the > > surgery. What you ought to be doing, then, is helping > > to get some > > help rather than trying to > > come up with some grand insight. No one, not even the > > best shrink or > > the best test, could have > > predicted how would feel after her surgery, so > > all of this > > blathering about who gave her the > > okay is malarkey, too. Many people are negative about > > outcomes but > > positive as hell afterwards. > > Let's hope that gets some help and eventually > > gets positive. > > > > This shrink business has all the elements of Salem > > Massachusetts and > > witch hunting. It is obvious > > that it is being misused by these surgeons to predict > > outcomes that are > > unpredictable, and that > > they are using these tests to cover their asses when > > their asses would > > be better covered by simply > > giving better followup care of a medical, surgical, or > > psychiatric type > > when appropriate. > > > > ***************** > > > > to a certain extent I agree. > > I do believe that properly done psych evals might > > uncover persons who believe they will not succeed, or > > persons who have no support system. Those persons > > might be encouraged to identify support groups and to > > speak to successful post ops to build their " success > > mentality " before surgery. We all know that a positive > > mental outlook assists in a positive physical > > recovery. > > > > I think many of the psych evals are poorly thought out > > and not really effective. However, I've seen some > > posts from people that have really flipped out over > > the psych evals and most of them seem to end up not > > having surgery. > > > > I think a psych eval with a doctor who specializes in > > evaluating bariatric patients, and then possibly 2-3 > > pre-op visits and say 2-3 post op visits with a > > transition to a person's own mental health provider > > would be a good way to go. > > > > Dr. requires that people see psych docs on > > her team. That way, she knows that they know what to > > look for. I don't say that method is perfect but it's > > the best type of method I've seen to date. > > > > becki > > > > > > ===== > > Becki, near Portland, OR > > BMI 50-ish, age 42 > > pre-op DS. hoping to get approval > > through Aetna Traditional Choice > > (fighting 'investigational' denial) > > Consulted with Dr. on 3-13-01 > > psych ok, nutrition ok, beckeye_58@y... > > > > __________________________________________________ > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 14, 2001 Report Share Posted July 14, 2001 Wow - Donna, Thanks for sharing your experience. Your profanity, on the other hand, is not appreciated. Dina in Aloha, OR Age 37/BMI 61 Waiting for my consult with Dr. Hoping my new insurance will cover it all.... Re: Re: What can we learn from ? > > > > Dear Psychology Experts, > > > > Eliminating people from having WLS because they do not > > have 'normal' > > psychosocial backup or > > support groups is going to eliminate most guys, in my > > limited > > experience, from much needed WLS for > > super and plain old morbid obesity. I was at a WLS > > meeting the other > > night, and not one of the > > humungous guys there had any such backup. So you are > > projecting your > > values on the population of > > all fatties. You cannot, generally speaking, diagnose > > accurately mental > > illness by a single trait > > such as whether or not someone has plenty of support, > > nor can you > > predict how someone is going to > > react to an unknown complex of post-surgical > > 'challenges'. Life ain't > > that simple. Preliminary > > diagnoses using DSMs, which is how the shrinks do it, > > normally involves > > a constellation of traits > > or behaviors; nor are their diagnostics the last word > > on anything, for > > that matter. > > > > These psychological exams are a can of worms. They are > > rejecting people > > because they don't like > > doctors or have antisocial feelings, etc. They have > > you believing in > > their voodoo. There are > > simply too many variables involved and insufficient > > data to make > > realistic predictions as to what > > could happen post-surgically. This is like trying to > > predict the > > weather a month from now. It's > > all guesswork. The ASBS surgical guidelines, which are > > the specialty > > guidelines, do not deny > > surgery to anyone unless they are obviously psychotic. > > This means that > > all of us neurotic, > > finger-nail-biting fatsos who are ready to burst into > > tears the moment > > someone looks cross-eyed at > > us should be able to get surgery. It also means that > > you are being > > hassled about your psychic > > state by surgeons who are a little confused about > > psychological issues. > > The NIH guidelines really > > don't say anything different, though they amount to a > > plea to use as > > many disciplines as the > > surgeons find necessary. This is why the dietitians > > and the shrinks are > > getting a piece of the > > pie. The surgeons are just being generous with the > > insurance companies > > or your money. > > > > As far as post-operative depression goes, you should > > be expecting some > > of those experiencing > > massive weight loss to have bouts of depression > > related to their weight > > loss or to their > > post-surgical morbidities. There is nothing wrong with > > having these > > bouts. There is, however, > > something wrong in worrying about what might be the > > etiology of any > > person's depression. You are > > playing God. The important thing is to get them > > treated along with the > > morbidities attending the > > surgery. What you ought to be doing, then, is helping > > to get some > > help rather than trying to > > come up with some grand insight. No one, not even the > > best shrink or > > the best test, could have > > predicted how would feel after her surgery, so > > all of this > > blathering about who gave her the > > okay is malarkey, too. Many people are negative about > > outcomes but > > positive as hell afterwards. > > Let's hope that gets some help and eventually > > gets positive. > > > > This shrink business has all the elements of Salem > > Massachusetts and > > witch hunting. It is obvious > > that it is being misused by these surgeons to predict > > outcomes that are > > unpredictable, and that > > they are using these tests to cover their asses when > > their asses would > > be better covered by simply > > giving better followup care of a medical, surgical, or > > psychiatric type > > when appropriate. > > > > ***************** > > > > to a certain extent I agree. > > I do believe that properly done psych evals might > > uncover persons who believe they will not succeed, or > > persons who have no support system. Those persons > > might be encouraged to identify support groups and to > > speak to successful post ops to build their " success > > mentality " before surgery. We all know that a positive > > mental outlook assists in a positive physical > > recovery. > > > > I think many of the psych evals are poorly thought out > > and not really effective. However, I've seen some > > posts from people that have really flipped out over > > the psych evals and most of them seem to end up not > > having surgery. > > > > I think a psych eval with a doctor who specializes in > > evaluating bariatric patients, and then possibly 2-3 > > pre-op visits and say 2-3 post op visits with a > > transition to a person's own mental health provider > > would be a good way to go. > > > > Dr. requires that people see psych docs on > > her team. That way, she knows that they know what to > > look for. I don't say that method is perfect but it's > > the best type of method I've seen to date. > > > > becki > > > > > > ===== > > Becki, near Portland, OR > > BMI 50-ish, age 42 > > pre-op DS. hoping to get approval > > through Aetna Traditional Choice > > (fighting 'investigational' denial) > > Consulted with Dr. on 3-13-01 > > psych ok, nutrition ok, beckeye_58@y... > > > > __________________________________________________ > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 14, 2001 Report Share Posted July 14, 2001 I appreciate profanity when it's called for. And it seemed called for in this case. JMFO -Sherry (Lake Marcel, WA) BPD/DS Feb. 2, 2001 self-pay 5'5 " / 315 pounds / 33 years old Lost 9 pounds in pre-op weight loss efforts Have lost 96 pounds since surgery! Total of 105 pounds gone forEVER! http://www.fluffynet.com/wls/ > > > Leonard said: > > > Message: 16 > > > Date: Wed, 11 Jul 2001 19:20:14 -0700 (PDT) > > > From: Garguy <thepflanz@y...> > > > Subject: Re: Re: What can we learn from ? > > > > > > Dear Psychology Experts, > > > > > > Eliminating people from having WLS because they do not > > > have 'normal' > > > psychosocial backup or > > > support groups is going to eliminate most guys, in my > > > limited > > > experience, from much needed WLS for > > > super and plain old morbid obesity. I was at a WLS > > > meeting the other > > > night, and not one of the > > > humungous guys there had any such backup. So you are > > > projecting your > > > values on the population of > > > all fatties. You cannot, generally speaking, diagnose > > > accurately mental > > > illness by a single trait > > > such as whether or not someone has plenty of support, > > > nor can you > > > predict how someone is going to > > > react to an unknown complex of post-surgical > > > 'challenges'. Life ain't > > > that simple. Preliminary > > > diagnoses using DSMs, which is how the shrinks do it, > > > normally involves > > > a constellation of traits > > > or behaviors; nor are their diagnostics the last word > > > on anything, for > > > that matter. > > > > > > These psychological exams are a can of worms. They are > > > rejecting people > > > because they don't like > > > doctors or have antisocial feelings, etc. They have > > > you believing in > > > their voodoo. There are > > > simply too many variables involved and insufficient > > > data to make > > > realistic predictions as to what > > > could happen post-surgically. This is like trying to > > > predict the > > > weather a month from now. It's > > > all guesswork. The ASBS surgical guidelines, which are > > > the specialty > > > guidelines, do not deny > > > surgery to anyone unless they are obviously psychotic. > > > This means that > > > all of us neurotic, > > > finger-nail-biting fatsos who are ready to burst into > > > tears the moment > > > someone looks cross-eyed at > > > us should be able to get surgery. It also means that > > > you are being > > > hassled about your psychic > > > state by surgeons who are a little confused about > > > psychological issues. > > > The NIH guidelines really > > > don't say anything different, though they amount to a > > > plea to use as > > > many disciplines as the > > > surgeons find necessary. This is why the dietitians > > > and the shrinks are > > > getting a piece of the > > > pie. The surgeons are just being generous with the > > > insurance companies > > > or your money. > > > > > > As far as post-operative depression goes, you should > > > be expecting some > > > of those experiencing > > > massive weight loss to have bouts of depression > > > related to their weight > > > loss or to their > > > post-surgical morbidities. There is nothing wrong with > > > having these > > > bouts. There is, however, > > > something wrong in worrying about what might be the > > > etiology of any > > > person's depression. You are > > > playing God. The important thing is to get them > > > treated along with the > > > morbidities attending the > > > surgery. What you ought to be doing, then, is helping > > > to get some > > > help rather than trying to > > > come up with some grand insight. No one, not even the > > > best shrink or > > > the best test, could have > > > predicted how would feel after her surgery, so > > > all of this > > > blathering about who gave her the > > > okay is malarkey, too. Many people are negative about > > > outcomes but > > > positive as hell afterwards. > > > Let's hope that gets some help and eventually > > > gets positive. > > > > > > This shrink business has all the elements of Salem > > > Massachusetts and > > > witch hunting. It is obvious > > > that it is being misused by these surgeons to predict > > > outcomes that are > > > unpredictable, and that > > > they are using these tests to cover their asses when > > > their asses would > > > be better covered by simply > > > giving better followup care of a medical, surgical, or > > > psychiatric type > > > when appropriate. > > > > > > ***************** > > > > > > to a certain extent I agree. > > > I do believe that properly done psych evals might > > > uncover persons who believe they will not succeed, or > > > persons who have no support system. Those persons > > > might be encouraged to identify support groups and to > > > speak to successful post ops to build their " success > > > mentality " before surgery. We all know that a positive > > > mental outlook assists in a positive physical > > > recovery. > > > > > > I think many of the psych evals are poorly thought out > > > and not really effective. However, I've seen some > > > posts from people that have really flipped out over > > > the psych evals and most of them seem to end up not > > > having surgery. > > > > > > I think a psych eval with a doctor who specializes in > > > evaluating bariatric patients, and then possibly 2-3 > > > pre-op visits and say 2-3 post op visits with a > > > transition to a person's own mental health provider > > > would be a good way to go. > > > > > > Dr. requires that people see psych docs on > > > her team. That way, she knows that they know what to > > > look for. I don't say that method is perfect but it's > > > the best type of method I've seen to date. > > > > > > becki > > > > > > > > > ===== > > > Becki, near Portland, OR > > > BMI 50-ish, age 42 > > > pre-op DS. hoping to get approval > > > through Aetna Traditional Choice > > > (fighting 'investigational' denial) > > > Consulted with Dr. on 3-13-01 > > > psych ok, nutrition ok, beckeye_58@y... > > > > > > __________________________________________________ > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 14, 2001 Report Share Posted July 14, 2001 I appreciate profanity when it's called for. And it seemed called for in this case. JMFO -Sherry (Lake Marcel, WA) BPD/DS Feb. 2, 2001 self-pay 5'5 " / 315 pounds / 33 years old Lost 9 pounds in pre-op weight loss efforts Have lost 96 pounds since surgery! Total of 105 pounds gone forEVER! http://www.fluffynet.com/wls/ > > > Leonard said: > > > Message: 16 > > > Date: Wed, 11 Jul 2001 19:20:14 -0700 (PDT) > > > From: Garguy <thepflanz@y...> > > > Subject: Re: Re: What can we learn from ? > > > > > > Dear Psychology Experts, > > > > > > Eliminating people from having WLS because they do not > > > have 'normal' > > > psychosocial backup or > > > support groups is going to eliminate most guys, in my > > > limited > > > experience, from much needed WLS for > > > super and plain old morbid obesity. I was at a WLS > > > meeting the other > > > night, and not one of the > > > humungous guys there had any such backup. So you are > > > projecting your > > > values on the population of > > > all fatties. You cannot, generally speaking, diagnose > > > accurately mental > > > illness by a single trait > > > such as whether or not someone has plenty of support, > > > nor can you > > > predict how someone is going to > > > react to an unknown complex of post-surgical > > > 'challenges'. Life ain't > > > that simple. Preliminary > > > diagnoses using DSMs, which is how the shrinks do it, > > > normally involves > > > a constellation of traits > > > or behaviors; nor are their diagnostics the last word > > > on anything, for > > > that matter. > > > > > > These psychological exams are a can of worms. They are > > > rejecting people > > > because they don't like > > > doctors or have antisocial feelings, etc. They have > > > you believing in > > > their voodoo. There are > > > simply too many variables involved and insufficient > > > data to make > > > realistic predictions as to what > > > could happen post-surgically. This is like trying to > > > predict the > > > weather a month from now. It's > > > all guesswork. The ASBS surgical guidelines, which are > > > the specialty > > > guidelines, do not deny > > > surgery to anyone unless they are obviously psychotic. > > > This means that > > > all of us neurotic, > > > finger-nail-biting fatsos who are ready to burst into > > > tears the moment > > > someone looks cross-eyed at > > > us should be able to get surgery. It also means that > > > you are being > > > hassled about your psychic > > > state by surgeons who are a little confused about > > > psychological issues. > > > The NIH guidelines really > > > don't say anything different, though they amount to a > > > plea to use as > > > many disciplines as the > > > surgeons find necessary. This is why the dietitians > > > and the shrinks are > > > getting a piece of the > > > pie. The surgeons are just being generous with the > > > insurance companies > > > or your money. > > > > > > As far as post-operative depression goes, you should > > > be expecting some > > > of those experiencing > > > massive weight loss to have bouts of depression > > > related to their weight > > > loss or to their > > > post-surgical morbidities. There is nothing wrong with > > > having these > > > bouts. There is, however, > > > something wrong in worrying about what might be the > > > etiology of any > > > person's depression. You are > > > playing God. The important thing is to get them > > > treated along with the > > > morbidities attending the > > > surgery. What you ought to be doing, then, is helping > > > to get some > > > help rather than trying to > > > come up with some grand insight. No one, not even the > > > best shrink or > > > the best test, could have > > > predicted how would feel after her surgery, so > > > all of this > > > blathering about who gave her the > > > okay is malarkey, too. Many people are negative about > > > outcomes but > > > positive as hell afterwards. > > > Let's hope that gets some help and eventually > > > gets positive. > > > > > > This shrink business has all the elements of Salem > > > Massachusetts and > > > witch hunting. It is obvious > > > that it is being misused by these surgeons to predict > > > outcomes that are > > > unpredictable, and that > > > they are using these tests to cover their asses when > > > their asses would > > > be better covered by simply > > > giving better followup care of a medical, surgical, or > > > psychiatric type > > > when appropriate. > > > > > > ***************** > > > > > > to a certain extent I agree. > > > I do believe that properly done psych evals might > > > uncover persons who believe they will not succeed, or > > > persons who have no support system. Those persons > > > might be encouraged to identify support groups and to > > > speak to successful post ops to build their " success > > > mentality " before surgery. We all know that a positive > > > mental outlook assists in a positive physical > > > recovery. > > > > > > I think many of the psych evals are poorly thought out > > > and not really effective. However, I've seen some > > > posts from people that have really flipped out over > > > the psych evals and most of them seem to end up not > > > having surgery. > > > > > > I think a psych eval with a doctor who specializes in > > > evaluating bariatric patients, and then possibly 2-3 > > > pre-op visits and say 2-3 post op visits with a > > > transition to a person's own mental health provider > > > would be a good way to go. > > > > > > Dr. requires that people see psych docs on > > > her team. That way, she knows that they know what to > > > look for. I don't say that method is perfect but it's > > > the best type of method I've seen to date. > > > > > > becki > > > > > > > > > ===== > > > Becki, near Portland, OR > > > BMI 50-ish, age 42 > > > pre-op DS. hoping to get approval > > > through Aetna Traditional Choice > > > (fighting 'investigational' denial) > > > Consulted with Dr. on 3-13-01 > > > psych ok, nutrition ok, beckeye_58@y... > > > > > > __________________________________________________ > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 14, 2001 Report Share Posted July 14, 2001 I agree Sherry...it went with the story...besides...I'm a big girl...I know where my delete key is if someone writes in a manner that I don't care for. One thing I've learned being online for the past 4 years, we are all different, we all have different ideas what is humorous and we all have different ideas on what is appropriate. I personally just try to remember that my standards are not everyone's standards nor should I expect everyone to have mine. And Donna....you hit it right on the head why I decided not to go to Dr. . I appreciate profanity when it's called for. And it seemed called for in this case. JMFO -Sherry (Lake Marcel, WA) BPD/DS Feb. 2, 2001 self-pay 5'5" / 315 pounds / 33 years old Lost 9 pounds in pre-op weight loss efforts Have lost 96 pounds since surgery! Total of 105 pounds gone forEVER! http://www.fluffynet.com/wls/ > > Garguy...(sorry, don't know your name), > > > > I question to you then would be - were you the surgeon, with > consults > > being scheduled out 3 to 4 months in advance, seeing 5 new patients > a day, ~~* AJ *~~ BMI 59 Surgery date 7/24/01 going self pay - Dr Baltasar Spain Check out the Bellingham Support for WLS WWW.lookin2bthin.homestead.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 14, 2001 Report Share Posted July 14, 2001 I agree Sherry...it went with the story...besides...I'm a big girl...I know where my delete key is if someone writes in a manner that I don't care for. One thing I've learned being online for the past 4 years, we are all different, we all have different ideas what is humorous and we all have different ideas on what is appropriate. I personally just try to remember that my standards are not everyone's standards nor should I expect everyone to have mine. And Donna....you hit it right on the head why I decided not to go to Dr. . I appreciate profanity when it's called for. And it seemed called for in this case. JMFO -Sherry (Lake Marcel, WA) BPD/DS Feb. 2, 2001 self-pay 5'5" / 315 pounds / 33 years old Lost 9 pounds in pre-op weight loss efforts Have lost 96 pounds since surgery! Total of 105 pounds gone forEVER! http://www.fluffynet.com/wls/ > > Garguy...(sorry, don't know your name), > > > > I question to you then would be - were you the surgeon, with > consults > > being scheduled out 3 to 4 months in advance, seeing 5 new patients > a day, ~~* AJ *~~ BMI 59 Surgery date 7/24/01 going self pay - Dr Baltasar Spain Check out the Bellingham Support for WLS WWW.lookin2bthin.homestead.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 14, 2001 Report Share Posted July 14, 2001 Wow. You are welcome. But your lack of appreciation for my profanity is not appreciated. Donna > > > Leonard said: > > > Message: 16 > > > Date: Wed, 11 Jul 2001 19:20:14 -0700 (PDT) > > > From: Garguy <thepflanz@y...> > > > Subject: Re: Re: What can we learn from ? > > > > > > Dear Psychology Experts, > > > > > > Eliminating people from having WLS because they do not > > > have 'normal' > > > psychosocial backup or > > > support groups is going to eliminate most guys, in my > > > limited > > > experience, from much needed WLS for > > > super and plain old morbid obesity. I was at a WLS > > > meeting the other > > > night, and not one of the > > > humungous guys there had any such backup. So you are > > > projecting your > > > values on the population of > > > all fatties. You cannot, generally speaking, diagnose > > > accurately mental > > > illness by a single trait > > > such as whether or not someone has plenty of support, > > > nor can you > > > predict how someone is going to > > > react to an unknown complex of post-surgical > > > 'challenges'. Life ain't > > > that simple. Preliminary > > > diagnoses using DSMs, which is how the shrinks do it, > > > normally involves > > > a constellation of traits > > > or behaviors; nor are their diagnostics the last word > > > on anything, for > > > that matter. > > > > > > These psychological exams are a can of worms. They are > > > rejecting people > > > because they don't like > > > doctors or have antisocial feelings, etc. They have > > > you believing in > > > their voodoo. There are > > > simply too many variables involved and insufficient > > > data to make > > > realistic predictions as to what > > > could happen post-surgically. This is like trying to > > > predict the > > > weather a month from now. It's > > > all guesswork. The ASBS surgical guidelines, which are > > > the specialty > > > guidelines, do not deny > > > surgery to anyone unless they are obviously psychotic. > > > This means that > > > all of us neurotic, > > > finger-nail-biting fatsos who are ready to burst into > > > tears the moment > > > someone looks cross-eyed at > > > us should be able to get surgery. It also means that > > > you are being > > > hassled about your psychic > > > state by surgeons who are a little confused about > > > psychological issues. > > > The NIH guidelines really > > > don't say anything different, though they amount to a > > > plea to use as > > > many disciplines as the > > > surgeons find necessary. This is why the dietitians > > > and the shrinks are > > > getting a piece of the > > > pie. The surgeons are just being generous with the > > > insurance companies > > > or your money. > > > > > > As far as post-operative depression goes, you should > > > be expecting some > > > of those experiencing > > > massive weight loss to have bouts of depression > > > related to their weight > > > loss or to their > > > post-surgical morbidities. There is nothing wrong with > > > having these > > > bouts. There is, however, > > > something wrong in worrying about what might be the > > > etiology of any > > > person's depression. You are > > > playing God. The important thing is to get them > > > treated along with the > > > morbidities attending the > > > surgery. What you ought to be doing, then, is helping > > > to get some > > > help rather than trying to > > > come up with some grand insight. No one, not even the > > > best shrink or > > > the best test, could have > > > predicted how would feel after her surgery, so > > > all of this > > > blathering about who gave her the > > > okay is malarkey, too. Many people are negative about > > > outcomes but > > > positive as hell afterwards. > > > Let's hope that gets some help and eventually > > > gets positive. > > > > > > This shrink business has all the elements of Salem > > > Massachusetts and > > > witch hunting. It is obvious > > > that it is being misused by these surgeons to predict > > > outcomes that are > > > unpredictable, and that > > > they are using these tests to cover their asses when > > > their asses would > > > be better covered by simply > > > giving better followup care of a medical, surgical, or > > > psychiatric type > > > when appropriate. > > > > > > ***************** > > > > > > to a certain extent I agree. > > > I do believe that properly done psych evals might > > > uncover persons who believe they will not succeed, or > > > persons who have no support system. Those persons > > > might be encouraged to identify support groups and to > > > speak to successful post ops to build their " success > > > mentality " before surgery. We all know that a positive > > > mental outlook assists in a positive physical > > > recovery. > > > > > > I think many of the psych evals are poorly thought out > > > and not really effective. However, I've seen some > > > posts from people that have really flipped out over > > > the psych evals and most of them seem to end up not > > > having surgery. > > > > > > I think a psych eval with a doctor who specializes in > > > evaluating bariatric patients, and then possibly 2-3 > > > pre-op visits and say 2-3 post op visits with a > > > transition to a person's own mental health provider > > > would be a good way to go. > > > > > > Dr. requires that people see psych docs on > > > her team. That way, she knows that they know what to > > > look for. I don't say that method is perfect but it's > > > the best type of method I've seen to date. > > > > > > becki > > > > > > > > > ===== > > > Becki, near Portland, OR > > > BMI 50-ish, age 42 > > > pre-op DS. hoping to get approval > > > through Aetna Traditional Choice > > > (fighting 'investigational' denial) > > > Consulted with Dr. on 3-13-01 > > > psych ok, nutrition ok, beckeye_58@y... > > > > > > __________________________________________________ > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 14, 2001 Report Share Posted July 14, 2001 Wow. You are welcome. But your lack of appreciation for my profanity is not appreciated. Donna > > > Leonard said: > > > Message: 16 > > > Date: Wed, 11 Jul 2001 19:20:14 -0700 (PDT) > > > From: Garguy <thepflanz@y...> > > > Subject: Re: Re: What can we learn from ? > > > > > > Dear Psychology Experts, > > > > > > Eliminating people from having WLS because they do not > > > have 'normal' > > > psychosocial backup or > > > support groups is going to eliminate most guys, in my > > > limited > > > experience, from much needed WLS for > > > super and plain old morbid obesity. I was at a WLS > > > meeting the other > > > night, and not one of the > > > humungous guys there had any such backup. So you are > > > projecting your > > > values on the population of > > > all fatties. You cannot, generally speaking, diagnose > > > accurately mental > > > illness by a single trait > > > such as whether or not someone has plenty of support, > > > nor can you > > > predict how someone is going to > > > react to an unknown complex of post-surgical > > > 'challenges'. Life ain't > > > that simple. Preliminary > > > diagnoses using DSMs, which is how the shrinks do it, > > > normally involves > > > a constellation of traits > > > or behaviors; nor are their diagnostics the last word > > > on anything, for > > > that matter. > > > > > > These psychological exams are a can of worms. They are > > > rejecting people > > > because they don't like > > > doctors or have antisocial feelings, etc. They have > > > you believing in > > > their voodoo. There are > > > simply too many variables involved and insufficient > > > data to make > > > realistic predictions as to what > > > could happen post-surgically. This is like trying to > > > predict the > > > weather a month from now. It's > > > all guesswork. The ASBS surgical guidelines, which are > > > the specialty > > > guidelines, do not deny > > > surgery to anyone unless they are obviously psychotic. > > > This means that > > > all of us neurotic, > > > finger-nail-biting fatsos who are ready to burst into > > > tears the moment > > > someone looks cross-eyed at > > > us should be able to get surgery. It also means that > > > you are being > > > hassled about your psychic > > > state by surgeons who are a little confused about > > > psychological issues. > > > The NIH guidelines really > > > don't say anything different, though they amount to a > > > plea to use as > > > many disciplines as the > > > surgeons find necessary. This is why the dietitians > > > and the shrinks are > > > getting a piece of the > > > pie. The surgeons are just being generous with the > > > insurance companies > > > or your money. > > > > > > As far as post-operative depression goes, you should > > > be expecting some > > > of those experiencing > > > massive weight loss to have bouts of depression > > > related to their weight > > > loss or to their > > > post-surgical morbidities. There is nothing wrong with > > > having these > > > bouts. There is, however, > > > something wrong in worrying about what might be the > > > etiology of any > > > person's depression. You are > > > playing God. The important thing is to get them > > > treated along with the > > > morbidities attending the > > > surgery. What you ought to be doing, then, is helping > > > to get some > > > help rather than trying to > > > come up with some grand insight. No one, not even the > > > best shrink or > > > the best test, could have > > > predicted how would feel after her surgery, so > > > all of this > > > blathering about who gave her the > > > okay is malarkey, too. Many people are negative about > > > outcomes but > > > positive as hell afterwards. > > > Let's hope that gets some help and eventually > > > gets positive. > > > > > > This shrink business has all the elements of Salem > > > Massachusetts and > > > witch hunting. It is obvious > > > that it is being misused by these surgeons to predict > > > outcomes that are > > > unpredictable, and that > > > they are using these tests to cover their asses when > > > their asses would > > > be better covered by simply > > > giving better followup care of a medical, surgical, or > > > psychiatric type > > > when appropriate. > > > > > > ***************** > > > > > > to a certain extent I agree. > > > I do believe that properly done psych evals might > > > uncover persons who believe they will not succeed, or > > > persons who have no support system. Those persons > > > might be encouraged to identify support groups and to > > > speak to successful post ops to build their " success > > > mentality " before surgery. We all know that a positive > > > mental outlook assists in a positive physical > > > recovery. > > > > > > I think many of the psych evals are poorly thought out > > > and not really effective. However, I've seen some > > > posts from people that have really flipped out over > > > the psych evals and most of them seem to end up not > > > having surgery. > > > > > > I think a psych eval with a doctor who specializes in > > > evaluating bariatric patients, and then possibly 2-3 > > > pre-op visits and say 2-3 post op visits with a > > > transition to a person's own mental health provider > > > would be a good way to go. > > > > > > Dr. requires that people see psych docs on > > > her team. That way, she knows that they know what to > > > look for. I don't say that method is perfect but it's > > > the best type of method I've seen to date. > > > > > > becki > > > > > > > > > ===== > > > Becki, near Portland, OR > > > BMI 50-ish, age 42 > > > pre-op DS. hoping to get approval > > > through Aetna Traditional Choice > > > (fighting 'investigational' denial) > > > Consulted with Dr. on 3-13-01 > > > psych ok, nutrition ok, beckeye_58@y... > > > > > > __________________________________________________ > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 14, 2001 Report Share Posted July 14, 2001 LO- F'N- L Donna > > > > Leonard said: > > > > Message: 16 > > > > Date: Wed, 11 Jul 2001 19:20:14 -0700 (PDT) > > > > From: Garguy <thepflanz@y...> > > > > Subject: Re: Re: What can we learn from ? > > > > > > > > Dear Psychology Experts, > > > > > > > > Eliminating people from having WLS because they do not > > > > have 'normal' > > > > psychosocial backup or > > > > support groups is going to eliminate most guys, in my > > > > limited > > > > experience, from much needed WLS for > > > > super and plain old morbid obesity. I was at a WLS > > > > meeting the other > > > > night, and not one of the > > > > humungous guys there had any such backup. So you are > > > > projecting your > > > > values on the population of > > > > all fatties. You cannot, generally speaking, diagnose > > > > accurately mental > > > > illness by a single trait > > > > such as whether or not someone has plenty of support, > > > > nor can you > > > > predict how someone is going to > > > > react to an unknown complex of post-surgical > > > > 'challenges'. Life ain't > > > > that simple. Preliminary > > > > diagnoses using DSMs, which is how the shrinks do it, > > > > normally involves > > > > a constellation of traits > > > > or behaviors; nor are their diagnostics the last word > > > > on anything, for > > > > that matter. > > > > > > > > These psychological exams are a can of worms. They are > > > > rejecting people > > > > because they don't like > > > > doctors or have antisocial feelings, etc. They have > > > > you believing in > > > > their voodoo. There are > > > > simply too many variables involved and insufficient > > > > data to make > > > > realistic predictions as to what > > > > could happen post-surgically. This is like trying to > > > > predict the > > > > weather a month from now. It's > > > > all guesswork. The ASBS surgical guidelines, which are > > > > the specialty > > > > guidelines, do not deny > > > > surgery to anyone unless they are obviously psychotic. > > > > This means that > > > > all of us neurotic, > > > > finger-nail-biting fatsos who are ready to burst into > > > > tears the moment > > > > someone looks cross-eyed at > > > > us should be able to get surgery. It also means that > > > > you are being > > > > hassled about your psychic > > > > state by surgeons who are a little confused about > > > > psychological issues. > > > > The NIH guidelines really > > > > don't say anything different, though they amount to a > > > > plea to use as > > > > many disciplines as the > > > > surgeons find necessary. This is why the dietitians > > > > and the shrinks are > > > > getting a piece of the > > > > pie. The surgeons are just being generous with the > > > > insurance companies > > > > or your money. > > > > > > > > As far as post-operative depression goes, you should > > > > be expecting some > > > > of those experiencing > > > > massive weight loss to have bouts of depression > > > > related to their weight > > > > loss or to their > > > > post-surgical morbidities. There is nothing wrong with > > > > having these > > > > bouts. There is, however, > > > > something wrong in worrying about what might be the > > > > etiology of any > > > > person's depression. You are > > > > playing God. The important thing is to get them > > > > treated along with the > > > > morbidities attending the > > > > surgery. What you ought to be doing, then, is helping > > > > to get some > > > > help rather than trying to > > > > come up with some grand insight. No one, not even the > > > > best shrink or > > > > the best test, could have > > > > predicted how would feel after her surgery, so > > > > all of this > > > > blathering about who gave her the > > > > okay is malarkey, too. Many people are negative about > > > > outcomes but > > > > positive as hell afterwards. > > > > Let's hope that gets some help and eventually > > > > gets positive. > > > > > > > > This shrink business has all the elements of Salem > > > > Massachusetts and > > > > witch hunting. It is obvious > > > > that it is being misused by these surgeons to predict > > > > outcomes that are > > > > unpredictable, and that > > > > they are using these tests to cover their asses when > > > > their asses would > > > > be better covered by simply > > > > giving better followup care of a medical, surgical, or > > > > psychiatric type > > > > when appropriate. > > > > > > > > ***************** > > > > > > > > to a certain extent I agree. > > > > I do believe that properly done psych evals might > > > > uncover persons who believe they will not succeed, or > > > > persons who have no support system. Those persons > > > > might be encouraged to identify support groups and to > > > > speak to successful post ops to build their " success > > > > mentality " before surgery. We all know that a positive > > > > mental outlook assists in a positive physical > > > > recovery. > > > > > > > > I think many of the psych evals are poorly thought out > > > > and not really effective. However, I've seen some > > > > posts from people that have really flipped out over > > > > the psych evals and most of them seem to end up not > > > > having surgery. > > > > > > > > I think a psych eval with a doctor who specializes in > > > > evaluating bariatric patients, and then possibly 2-3 > > > > pre-op visits and say 2-3 post op visits with a > > > > transition to a person's own mental health provider > > > > would be a good way to go. > > > > > > > > Dr. requires that people see psych docs on > > > > her team. That way, she knows that they know what to > > > > look for. I don't say that method is perfect but it's > > > > the best type of method I've seen to date. > > > > > > > > becki > > > > > > > > > > > > ===== > > > > Becki, near Portland, OR > > > > BMI 50-ish, age 42 > > > > pre-op DS. hoping to get approval > > > > through Aetna Traditional Choice > > > > (fighting 'investigational' denial) > > > > Consulted with Dr. on 3-13-01 > > > > psych ok, nutrition ok, beckeye_58@y... > > > > > > > > __________________________________________________ > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 14, 2001 Report Share Posted July 14, 2001 LO- F'N- L Donna > > > > Leonard said: > > > > Message: 16 > > > > Date: Wed, 11 Jul 2001 19:20:14 -0700 (PDT) > > > > From: Garguy <thepflanz@y...> > > > > Subject: Re: Re: What can we learn from ? > > > > > > > > Dear Psychology Experts, > > > > > > > > Eliminating people from having WLS because they do not > > > > have 'normal' > > > > psychosocial backup or > > > > support groups is going to eliminate most guys, in my > > > > limited > > > > experience, from much needed WLS for > > > > super and plain old morbid obesity. I was at a WLS > > > > meeting the other > > > > night, and not one of the > > > > humungous guys there had any such backup. So you are > > > > projecting your > > > > values on the population of > > > > all fatties. You cannot, generally speaking, diagnose > > > > accurately mental > > > > illness by a single trait > > > > such as whether or not someone has plenty of support, > > > > nor can you > > > > predict how someone is going to > > > > react to an unknown complex of post-surgical > > > > 'challenges'. Life ain't > > > > that simple. Preliminary > > > > diagnoses using DSMs, which is how the shrinks do it, > > > > normally involves > > > > a constellation of traits > > > > or behaviors; nor are their diagnostics the last word > > > > on anything, for > > > > that matter. > > > > > > > > These psychological exams are a can of worms. They are > > > > rejecting people > > > > because they don't like > > > > doctors or have antisocial feelings, etc. They have > > > > you believing in > > > > their voodoo. There are > > > > simply too many variables involved and insufficient > > > > data to make > > > > realistic predictions as to what > > > > could happen post-surgically. This is like trying to > > > > predict the > > > > weather a month from now. It's > > > > all guesswork. The ASBS surgical guidelines, which are > > > > the specialty > > > > guidelines, do not deny > > > > surgery to anyone unless they are obviously psychotic. > > > > This means that > > > > all of us neurotic, > > > > finger-nail-biting fatsos who are ready to burst into > > > > tears the moment > > > > someone looks cross-eyed at > > > > us should be able to get surgery. It also means that > > > > you are being > > > > hassled about your psychic > > > > state by surgeons who are a little confused about > > > > psychological issues. > > > > The NIH guidelines really > > > > don't say anything different, though they amount to a > > > > plea to use as > > > > many disciplines as the > > > > surgeons find necessary. This is why the dietitians > > > > and the shrinks are > > > > getting a piece of the > > > > pie. The surgeons are just being generous with the > > > > insurance companies > > > > or your money. > > > > > > > > As far as post-operative depression goes, you should > > > > be expecting some > > > > of those experiencing > > > > massive weight loss to have bouts of depression > > > > related to their weight > > > > loss or to their > > > > post-surgical morbidities. There is nothing wrong with > > > > having these > > > > bouts. There is, however, > > > > something wrong in worrying about what might be the > > > > etiology of any > > > > person's depression. You are > > > > playing God. The important thing is to get them > > > > treated along with the > > > > morbidities attending the > > > > surgery. What you ought to be doing, then, is helping > > > > to get some > > > > help rather than trying to > > > > come up with some grand insight. No one, not even the > > > > best shrink or > > > > the best test, could have > > > > predicted how would feel after her surgery, so > > > > all of this > > > > blathering about who gave her the > > > > okay is malarkey, too. Many people are negative about > > > > outcomes but > > > > positive as hell afterwards. > > > > Let's hope that gets some help and eventually > > > > gets positive. > > > > > > > > This shrink business has all the elements of Salem > > > > Massachusetts and > > > > witch hunting. It is obvious > > > > that it is being misused by these surgeons to predict > > > > outcomes that are > > > > unpredictable, and that > > > > they are using these tests to cover their asses when > > > > their asses would > > > > be better covered by simply > > > > giving better followup care of a medical, surgical, or > > > > psychiatric type > > > > when appropriate. > > > > > > > > ***************** > > > > > > > > to a certain extent I agree. > > > > I do believe that properly done psych evals might > > > > uncover persons who believe they will not succeed, or > > > > persons who have no support system. Those persons > > > > might be encouraged to identify support groups and to > > > > speak to successful post ops to build their " success > > > > mentality " before surgery. We all know that a positive > > > > mental outlook assists in a positive physical > > > > recovery. > > > > > > > > I think many of the psych evals are poorly thought out > > > > and not really effective. However, I've seen some > > > > posts from people that have really flipped out over > > > > the psych evals and most of them seem to end up not > > > > having surgery. > > > > > > > > I think a psych eval with a doctor who specializes in > > > > evaluating bariatric patients, and then possibly 2-3 > > > > pre-op visits and say 2-3 post op visits with a > > > > transition to a person's own mental health provider > > > > would be a good way to go. > > > > > > > > Dr. requires that people see psych docs on > > > > her team. That way, she knows that they know what to > > > > look for. I don't say that method is perfect but it's > > > > the best type of method I've seen to date. > > > > > > > > becki > > > > > > > > > > > > ===== > > > > Becki, near Portland, OR > > > > BMI 50-ish, age 42 > > > > pre-op DS. hoping to get approval > > > > through Aetna Traditional Choice > > > > (fighting 'investigational' denial) > > > > Consulted with Dr. on 3-13-01 > > > > psych ok, nutrition ok, beckeye_58@y... > > > > > > > > __________________________________________________ > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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