Re: Lilka--wls and sex, a response to your question

December 6, 2005

Man I wish I could write like you Francisco. You state what I too

struggle with so eloquently!! Have I told you recently how much Ive

missed you in here. I know we kept in contact off site, but Ive

missed your inspiration in here.

Huggles

>

> Lilka:

>

> I pondered a lot about how to respond to your question about how

this

> operation, this process affects large people sexually. I didn't

> mention sex in my list of desires because sex to me is an extension

> of my heart. They are linked one to another. Sex to me is

> incredibly unfulfilling without some emotion attached to, without a

> connection, however brief, to another's soul. Some people have

this

> stereotype of gay men being wanton sexual predators unable to

control

> their impulses. I'm not that way, nor are the men I've dated. I'm

> not saying that there are not gay men (and straight men) like that,

> but it's just not me (no judgment implied).

>

> I know one of my big fears about losing weight was becoming more

> attractive, and hence, more available in a sexual way. As this

> journey has unfolded, my fears did not come to pass. True, I've

> dated many men since the break up of my 11-year long-term

> relationship. (Let me state for the record, " date " does not

> necessarily imply " sexual liaison " … I'm talking meeting for coffee

at

> Starbucks (decaf, non-fat, no foam latte), a walk along the Marina

> Harbor, or dinner and a movie… perhaps some hand holding, a little

> kissing and a hug or two. But I digress…)

>

> I was terrified that I would become uncontrollable in the same way

> that I was out of control with food. And then it hit me. I have

the

> ability to say, " No. " No is a difficult word for many of us who

are

> used to being such people pleasers. And as I worked on building

> boundaries around food, abound the treatment I expect from others,

> around every aspect of my new life, I knew that I could also build

> boundaries around sexual behavior. I do not mean to imply that

this

> was an easy process. Indeed, it was quite difficult as I am a

> survivor of childhood sexual abuse perpetrated by a female

neighbor.

> (No one should assume that this is what turned me " gay. " I knew I

> was gay before this happened, which only made it more horrific to

> me. But again, I digress…)

>

> The thing is, as I learned that food could not and would never fill

> the void in my heart, I also saw a parallel with sex. Just as

there

> are many tasty morsels that are not good food choices for me, there

> are also many tempting men in San Francisco—equally inappropriate

> choices for me.

>

> As I got closer and closer to my goal weight, the way I was treated

> took a huge paradigm shift. As a morbidly obese gay man, I was

> invisible in the Castro. A few times, I even got disparaging

remarks

> said to me as I passed someone on the sidewalk, or I could hear

> snickering behind my back. Now I blend in, and sometimes, I've

even

> been the object of flirtatious behavior.

>

> Even now, when a man is attracted to me, it doesn't register as

> true. I'm working on taking it in a just enjoying it, but for my

> whole life, my self-esteem (the little that existed) was based

> entirely on personality characteristics, not physical ones. I

valued

> myself as a caring, thoughtful, intelligent, introspective,

> empathetic man. I was so happy when my ex (Zach) fell in love with

> that part of me. But when someone now tells me, " You're hot, " I'm

> still a little taken aback by it. I'm hot? Me? Has he seen me?

> Does he know the real me? And I immediately start to discount this

> comment as untrue. How can anyone see me that way? If a man

cruises

> me (cruises = gay talk for making prolonged and potentially

> flirtatious eye contact that is meant to convey sexual interest), I

> think that he's looking at someone behind me.

>

> So, I guess what I'm saying to answer your question is that yes,

this

> process affects sexuality, at least it did in my case. You know,

as

> morbidly obese people, we often dream of having someone notice us

for

> how handsome or beautiful we are, or at least we wonder what it

would

> be like to be desired in that way. Being desired has caused me to

be

> shaken at my core with fear, but as with all this process, walking

> through that fear, and just enjoying it as a gift of passion from

God—

> with no need to act on it at all—is the key.

>

> I didn't become a wanton slut. But I've been given entrée into a

> life I've never known: the dating life that others go through in

high

> school and college. And it's been such a wondrous experience.

Yes,

> there have been disappointments, and I haven't yet found Mr. Right,

> but somehow, I've drawn so many dates that my friends call me " Date-

o-

> matic. " For example, in the last three weeks I've been on nine

dates

> with eight different guys. The last few days have been kind of

crazy—

> two dates on Sunday, one yesterday, and another tonight. And one

of

> them (whom I've dated and known for a while) wrote me a card that

> said, " Francisco, It seems insufficient to write it… but you've

> become a light in my life. Hugs and kisses, Joe. " (This will be

the

> subject of another post…)

>

> Yikes, this is going on forever, but I'll end with this. I think

> I've drawn men to me because somehow they sense that my deep desire

> to be loved has been fulfilled. I desire their companionship not

to

> fill a void in my heart, but rather to shave a love that dwells

> within me. The more you feed that love, the more it grows. Many

of

> us post-opers have been called radiant. I believe that's where

that

> radiance comes from—the gift of love we give ourselves.

>

> Francisco

>

December 6, 2005

Lilka: Francisco and I have met and talked about these very things before, and that's where we originally got the idea to maybe try to create a support group where people can talk about things like this...instead of focusing on the latest protein drink. It didn't really get off the ground for various reasons...but I haven't given up the idea. Like Francisco, I am a survivor of sexual abuse as a child. Somewhere along the way, I had a twisted self-perception: my value to men was my sexuality. I never became promiscious, per se..but I also didn't really live up to my own religious/ethical standards (which were probably too strict, anyway.) I was constantly in turmoil: on the one hand, I was a very sexual woman and I had some meaningful and loving sexual relationships. On the other hand, that kind of intimacy sometimes caused me fear on a deep level...and I would gain weight as a

protective device. I also wound up in long-term relationships that were not sexually fulfilling: different drives. Mine was higher. As someone who felt unfulfilled, I used food to munch down the passion that wasn't being expressed sexually. ANd then, i also packed on lbs as a protective device to keep men away...to help me remain faithful to my then boyfriend..or later on, my husband. This didn't work, because even when I was very heavy, I did manage to attract men to me. I have been pretty much normal weight and also morbidly obese as a sexually active woman. There are fewer opportunities and choices when you are very heavy to be sure. It's harder to find sexy lingerie, harder to find the "little black dress: that makes you look attractive...and it's harder to feel good about yourself and your sexuality. Further,

sometimes, physically...it's a bit harder for some obese women to find sexual pleasure when they are heavier: partly, it's due to being self-conscious, and thereby unable to "lose control". Partly, it's because your stomach can get in the way of full coital contact. ANd partly, when you aren't in an environment where men are viewing you in a sexual way (or women), it's hard to think of yourself as a sexual being. It becomes one of those "use it or lose it" situations. You feel unattractive, and gain weight, if you have PCOS (lots of overweight women do), the more weight you gain, the more your hormones conspire against your sexual desires...also, you can start getting facial hair and other things which make you feel masculine, and not desirable. So, I have found that as I lose weight, more people notice me in a sexual way. This used to scare me when I was younger...but as Francisco has mentioned...I'm a grown

up. I establish boundaries for what I eat (you learn to say, "NO, and I really mean NO, I do not want to eat chocolate cake. it will make me sick. Please respect what I've said"), and I can do it for my sexuality, too. My marriage was on the rocks for a long time, and nearly two years ago I separated from my husband (more than a year before I had my surgery.) Prior to separating, I became very vulnerable to a gorgeous French man, and I was very drawn in by his attraction to me (as well as by my attraction to him.) I never cheated on my husband during our marriage, and Olivier and I never slept together. However, I was ignited sexually by my desire for him...and by the idea of the two of us together...by his desire for me. I started buying different clothes, making sure I had perfume on and some nice lingerie. I started thinking of myself as beautiful and sexually desirable again.. All of this started when

I weighed 240 lbs. I now weigh 163. When things started to go awry with Olivier, and I felt unwanted or desirable to him, and when I started to try and "save" my marriage, I gained back up to 261 (after having lost down to 205 during the first blush of our attraction). So now here I am. I wear sexy clothes, but not all of the time. Some of my stuff is conservative. I wear what is appropriate for the occasion. The other day, a Marina Girl (i.e. 20 or 30 something, very beautiful, thin, rich and successful) said, "You always look so cute. You really have that Casual Chic thing down." It was a tremendous compliment to me, because I just threw on a pair of jeans, a little top, a pair of boots, and a necklace and a bracelet. I always wanted to be able to dress that simply (as opposed to dressing to the nines) and look casual and

elegant and attractive. Apparently, I have arrived...even in the eyes of a Marina Girl. It blew me away. I get a lot of attention from men, including my boss...who totally treats me differently than he used to. Men do somersaults to open doors for me. More men establish eye contact and tell me I have a beautiful smile or tell me with their body language that they appreciate the way I look. And that's wonderful. It's a compliment. It's terrific. But part of it has nothing to do with who I am. They like the package. And hey, the package counts. But there is more to me. They haven't seen that part. And that's ok. They won't BE seeing that part. I happen to know the rest of me is even better than the way I look. But instead, i found this guy on the Internet, who didn't see a photo of me for the first month or so

that we got to know each other. After we started to talk, I sent a relatively recent photo (prior to my weightloss). I then also sent him old photos from when I was thinner and younger, but I identified them as such. (I had avoided cameras and didn't really have any current photos that weren't me plastered on the arm of my husband or various boyfriends.) He really liked me. Just the way I was. And then, when he met me, I was much thinner. I was 171 (now I'm 11 lbs. lighter). He was blown away by the way I looked...but he loved me regardless of whether I was fat or thin. Our sexual chemistry is tremendous, and the sexual relationship is loving and passionate and meaningful. (by the way, the divorce has begun.) Now, he's moving from France and he's going to be living with me come January. He's a wonderful guy, and he loves me. I say, "what do you love about me?" He

responds, "I love many things about you...but that's not WHY I love you. I love you because I simply love you. And all of those great things may change, you may gain weight, get old, have an accident and not be so funny and intelligent anymore...but even so, I will still love you. You were made for me, and I was made for you." And here's the thing...he really believes that. Meanwhile, the other French guy is telling me that he still loves me, that he always will (he was never able to step up to the plate fully before because of a lot of reasons). Is he saying all of that now because I'm thin? No, I really don't think so. I sent him an updated picture of me(at his request), and after he finished telling me that he and I look much better together than eric and i do (I sent him an and me photo), I asked how he thought I looked. He said, "Beautiful, as always. You are

always beautiful, you always have been, always will be." I said, "Yeah, but hello! I'm a lot thinner now, what do you think? Don't I look better now?" He said, "When I met you at that party 5 years ago, when you walked in...there was no one else who existed on the planet. You were a star. I couldn't take my eyes off of you. Nothing has changed now that you are thinner." The thing is, I believe what he is saying. Because he saw me with eyes of love. They both loved me, and were attracted to me regardless of my weight. Olivier for sure, because he met me when I was thinner...and , probably, because he saw a photo of me when I was heavier. The biggest change is me. I see the change. In my comfort level. I can let go of self-consciousness. I am not afraid of being judged harshly by men who would have dismissed me because I'm a "fat girl"

when I walk into a room. I smile, I establish eye contact. I move more gracefully. I feel more attractive. And so, I get more attention than I used to. But I keep in mind that I am projecting something different out into the universe now, and thus, I am creating a different response in others. That's all. I'm not a better or worse, more or less worthwhile person. My soul is no more or less attractive than it used to be. I'm just sending a different vibe out. And yes, there are men and women out there who respond favorably to what is deemed to be "universally attractive"...and thus, they may show you more positive energy when you aren't restrained by your extra weight...when your facial bones show more...when your eyes enlarge because they are freed of the pudginess that surrounds them now... And some of those people are totally superfical jerks who you will

discover are totally superficial jerks five minutes into the conversation. You dismiss those people, and you move on. But some of those people are cool people, with lots of good things gonig on inside...and they are more accessible and open to you, because the barrier of fat is gone. People can't help what they are attracted to in a person on a physical level. It is programming from early childhood. The women in their lives, their perceptions of beauty...what the first girl that awakened their sexuality looked like. They aren't bad people just because they have certain preferences. So, yes, those are new people in your field that maybe you wouldn't have had a shot at before, because they wouldn't go in through a front door painted blue. But now that it is painted red, they walk in willingly and explore the rest of the house within. This

society does value beauty. Television, advertisements, etc. Even in the animal world, there are some individuals who are viewed as more sexually attractive than others. If you just realize that, you can let go of anger ("Oh sure, why didn't you notice me before? HUH???") and also, you can let go of the sense of desperation that might throw you into the arms of man after man. Because, it's all just science...this science of physical attraction. It's biology. And while somebody responding to you biologically is flattering, there is no magic there. It's just science. But the magic. Well, the magic is there in the connection between souls. And those souls connect whether you are fat or thin...as long as you are available, open and ready and willing to connect. And if you feel more comfortable, WORTHY, and willing to risk because you no longer are constrained

by your self-consciousness of extra weight...you may just reach out more to other people...and you may find that magic out there. You can screw every guy or gal around. You can always find somebody willing. Shoot, you can go to a sex club at 500 lbs. and find somebody willing to do you. These are options you have now. When you are thin, the same will be true...and you'll probably find even more opportunities. But you don't have to take all of those opportunities. You can hold out for the magic. I did. And I'm glad I did. Robynn Diane Duenas wrote: Man I wish I could write like you

Francisco. You state what I too struggle with so eloquently!! Have I told you recently how much Ive missed you in here. I know we kept in contact off site, but Ive missed your inspiration in here.Huggles>> Lilka:> > I pondered a lot about how to respond to your question about how this > operation, this process affects large people sexually. I didn't > mention sex in my list of desires because sex to me is an extension > of my heart. They are linked one to another. Sex to me is > incredibly unfulfilling without some emotion attached to, without a > connection, however brief, to another's soul. Some people have this > stereotype of gay men being wanton sexual predators unable to control > their impulses. I'm not that

way, nor are the men I've dated. I'm > not saying that there are not gay men (and straight men) like that, > but it's just not me (no judgment implied).> > I know one of my big fears about losing weight was becoming more > attractive, and hence, more available in a sexual way. As this > journey has unfolded, my fears did not come to pass. True, I've > dated many men since the break up of my 11-year long-term > relationship. (Let me state for the record, "date" does not > necessarily imply "sexual liaison"… I'm talking meeting for coffee at > Starbucks (decaf, non-fat, no foam latte), a walk along the Marina > Harbor, or dinner and a movie… perhaps some hand holding, a little > kissing and a hug or two. But I digress…) > > I was terrified that I would become uncontrollable in the same way > that I was out of control with food. And then it

hit me. I have the > ability to say, "No." No is a difficult word for many of us who are > used to being such people pleasers. And as I worked on building > boundaries around food, abound the treatment I expect from others, > around every aspect of my new life, I knew that I could also build > boundaries around sexual behavior. I do not mean to imply that this > was an easy process. Indeed, it was quite difficult as I am a > survivor of childhood sexual abuse perpetrated by a female neighbor. > (No one should assume that this is what turned me "gay." I knew I > was gay before this happened, which only made it more horrific to > me. But again, I digress…)> > The thing is, as I learned that food could not and would never fill > the void in my heart, I also saw a parallel with sex. Just as there > are many tasty morsels

that are not good food choices for me, there > are also many tempting men in San Francisco—equally inappropriate > choices for me.> > As I got closer and closer to my goal weight, the way I was treated > took a huge paradigm shift. As a morbidly obese gay man, I was > invisible in the Castro. A few times, I even got disparaging remarks > said to me as I passed someone on the sidewalk, or I could hear > snickering behind my back. Now I blend in, and sometimes, I've even > been the object of flirtatious behavior.> > Even now, when a man is attracted to me, it doesn't register as > true. I'm working on taking it in a just enjoying it, but for my > whole life, my self-esteem (the little that existed) was based > entirely on personality characteristics, not physical ones. I valued > myself as a caring, thoughtful, intelligent, introspective,

> empathetic man. I was so happy when my ex (Zach) fell in love with > that part of me. But when someone now tells me, "You're hot," I'm > still a little taken aback by it. I'm hot? Me? Has he seen me? > Does he know the real me? And I immediately start to discount this > comment as untrue. How can anyone see me that way? If a man cruises > me (cruises = gay talk for making prolonged and potentially > flirtatious eye contact that is meant to convey sexual interest), I > think that he's looking at someone behind me.> > So, I guess what I'm saying to answer your question is that yes, this > process affects sexuality, at least it did in my case. You know, as > morbidly obese people, we often dream of having someone notice us for > how handsome or beautiful we are, or at least we wonder what it would > be like

to be desired in that way. Being desired has caused me to be > shaken at my core with fear, but as with all this process, walking > through that fear, and just enjoying it as a gift of passion from God—> with no need to act on it at all—is the key.> > I didn't become a wanton slut. But I've been given entrée into a > life I've never known: the dating life that others go through in high > school and college. And it's been such a wondrous experience. Yes, > there have been disappointments, and I haven't yet found Mr. Right, > but somehow, I've drawn so many dates that my friends call me "Date-o-> matic." For example, in the last three weeks I've been on nine dates > with eight different guys. The last few days have been kind of crazy—> two dates on Sunday, one yesterday, and another tonight. And one of > them (whom I've

dated and known for a while) wrote me a card that > said, "Francisco, It seems insufficient to write it… but you've > become a light in my life. Hugs and kisses, Joe." (This will be the > subject of another post…)> > Yikes, this is going on forever, but I'll end with this. I think > I've drawn men to me because somehow they sense that my deep desire > to be loved has been fulfilled. I desire their companionship not to > fill a void in my heart, but rather to shave a love that dwells > within me. The more you feed that love, the more it grows. Many of > us post-opers have been called radiant. I believe that's where that > radiance comes from—the gift of love we give ourselves.> > Francisco>

December 7, 2005

Francisco I love all you wrote, it is all so true. So much of this will be true for a lot of post ops. When we were heavy I do believe a lot of us let people cross boundaries, and as our self esteem gets better we protect our boundaries more. Some people around us see this as good, others who use to cross our boundaries with no understanding think now we're mean or have an attitude. My husband has a lot of depression and he was sent to IOP (intensive outpatient program) and the physiologist and doctors taught him about anger, self esteem, boundaries and co-dependency and WOW what a difference in the way he looks at things now and how he reacts to things and how much more he loves life. It was the best thing that could of ever happened for him and our marriage of 24 years. Thank you for all your words. Take care. Donnamanisodream wrote: Lilka:I pondered a lot about how to respond to your question about how this operation, this process affects large people sexually. I didn't mention sex in my list of desires because sex to me is an extension of my heart. They are linked one to another. Sex to me is incredibly unfulfilling without some emotion attached to, without a connection, however brief, to another's soul. Some people have this stereotype of gay men being wanton sexual predators unable to control their impulses. I'm not that way, nor are the men I've dated. I'm not saying that there are not gay men (and straight men) like that, but it's just not me (no judgment implied).I know one of my big fears about losing weight was becoming more attractive, and hence, more available in a sexual way. As this journey has unfolded, my fears did not

come to pass. True, I've dated many men since the break up of my 11-year long-term relationship. (Let me state for the record, "date" does not necessarily imply "sexual liaison"… I'm talking meeting for coffee at Starbucks (decaf, non-fat, no foam latte), a walk along the Marina Harbor, or dinner and a movie… perhaps some hand holding, a little kissing and a hug or two. But I digress…) I was terrified that I would become uncontrollable in the same way that I was out of control with food. And then it hit me. I have the ability to say, "No." No is a difficult word for many of us who are used to being such people pleasers. And as I worked on building boundaries around food, abound the treatment I expect from others, around every aspect of my new life, I knew that I could also build boundaries around sexual behavior. I do not mean to imply that this was an easy process.

Indeed, it was quite difficult as I am a survivor of childhood sexual abuse perpetrated by a female neighbor. (No one should assume that this is what turned me "gay." I knew I was gay before this happened, which only made it more horrific to me. But again, I digress…)The thing is, as I learned that food could not and would never fill the void in my heart, I also saw a parallel with sex. Just as there are many tasty morsels that are not good food choices for me, there are also many tempting men in San Francisco—equally inappropriate choices for me.As I got closer and closer to my goal weight, the way I was treated took a huge paradigm shift. As a morbidly obese gay man, I was invisible in the Castro. A few times, I even got disparaging remarks said to me as I passed someone on the sidewalk, or I could hear snickering behind my back. Now I blend in, and sometimes, I've even been the

object of flirtatious behavior.Even now, when a man is attracted to me, it doesn't register as true. I'm working on taking it in a just enjoying it, but for my whole life, my self-esteem (the little that existed) was based entirely on personality characteristics, not physical ones. I valued myself as a caring, thoughtful, intelligent, introspective, empathetic man. I was so happy when my ex (Zach) fell in love with that part of me. But when someone now tells me, "You're hot," I'm still a little taken aback by it. I'm hot? Me? Has he seen me? Does he know the real me? And I immediately start to discount this comment as untrue. How can anyone see me that way? If a man cruises me (cruises = gay talk for making prolonged and potentially flirtatious eye contact that is meant to convey sexual interest), I think that he's looking at someone behind me.So, I guess

what I'm saying to answer your question is that yes, this process affects sexuality, at least it did in my case. You know, as morbidly obese people, we often dream of having someone notice us for how handsome or beautiful we are, or at least we wonder what it would be like to be desired in that way. Being desired has caused me to be shaken at my core with fear, but as with all this process, walking through that fear, and just enjoying it as a gift of passion from God—with no need to act on it at all—is the key.I didn't become a wanton slut. But I've been given entrée into a life I've never known: the dating life that others go through in high school and college. And it's been such a wondrous experience. Yes, there have been disappointments, and I haven't yet found Mr. Right, but somehow, I've drawn so many dates that my friends call me "Date-o-matic." For example, in the last three weeks I've

been on nine dates with eight different guys. The last few days have been kind of crazy—two dates on Sunday, one yesterday, and another tonight. And one of them (whom I've dated and known for a while) wrote me a card that said, "Francisco, It seems insufficient to write it… but you've become a light in my life. Hugs and kisses, Joe." (This will be the subject of another post…)Yikes, this is going on forever, but I'll end with this. I think I've drawn men to me because somehow they sense that my deep desire to be loved has been fulfilled. I desire their companionship not to fill a void in my heart, but rather to shave a love that dwells within me. The more you feed that love, the more it grows. Many of us post-opers have been called radiant. I believe that's where that radiance comes from—the gift of love we give ourselves.Francisco

December 7, 2005

Francisco I love all you wrote, it is all so true. So much of this will be true for a lot of post ops. When we were heavy I do believe a lot of us let people cross boundaries, and as our self esteem gets better we protect our boundaries more. Some people around us see this as good, others who use to cross our boundaries with no understanding think now we're mean or have an attitude. My husband has a lot of depression and he was sent to IOP (intensive outpatient program) and the physiologist and doctors taught him about anger, self esteem, boundaries and co-dependency and WOW what a difference in the way he looks at things now and how he reacts to things and how much more he loves life. It was the best thing that could of ever happened for him and our marriage of 24 years. Thank you for all your words. Take care. Donnamanisodream wrote: Lilka:I pondered a lot about how to respond to your question about how this operation, this process affects large people sexually. I didn't mention sex in my list of desires because sex to me is an extension of my heart. They are linked one to another. Sex to me is incredibly unfulfilling without some emotion attached to, without a connection, however brief, to another's soul. Some people have this stereotype of gay men being wanton sexual predators unable to control their impulses. I'm not that way, nor are the men I've dated. I'm not saying that there are not gay men (and straight men) like that, but it's just not me (no judgment implied).I know one of my big fears about losing weight was becoming more attractive, and hence, more available in a sexual way. As this journey has unfolded, my fears did not

come to pass. True, I've dated many men since the break up of my 11-year long-term relationship. (Let me state for the record, "date" does not necessarily imply "sexual liaison"… I'm talking meeting for coffee at Starbucks (decaf, non-fat, no foam latte), a walk along the Marina Harbor, or dinner and a movie… perhaps some hand holding, a little kissing and a hug or two. But I digress…) I was terrified that I would become uncontrollable in the same way that I was out of control with food. And then it hit me. I have the ability to say, "No." No is a difficult word for many of us who are used to being such people pleasers. And as I worked on building boundaries around food, abound the treatment I expect from others, around every aspect of my new life, I knew that I could also build boundaries around sexual behavior. I do not mean to imply that this was an easy process.

Indeed, it was quite difficult as I am a survivor of childhood sexual abuse perpetrated by a female neighbor. (No one should assume that this is what turned me "gay." I knew I was gay before this happened, which only made it more horrific to me. But again, I digress…)The thing is, as I learned that food could not and would never fill the void in my heart, I also saw a parallel with sex. Just as there are many tasty morsels that are not good food choices for me, there are also many tempting men in San Francisco—equally inappropriate choices for me.As I got closer and closer to my goal weight, the way I was treated took a huge paradigm shift. As a morbidly obese gay man, I was invisible in the Castro. A few times, I even got disparaging remarks said to me as I passed someone on the sidewalk, or I could hear snickering behind my back. Now I blend in, and sometimes, I've even been the

object of flirtatious behavior.Even now, when a man is attracted to me, it doesn't register as true. I'm working on taking it in a just enjoying it, but for my whole life, my self-esteem (the little that existed) was based entirely on personality characteristics, not physical ones. I valued myself as a caring, thoughtful, intelligent, introspective, empathetic man. I was so happy when my ex (Zach) fell in love with that part of me. But when someone now tells me, "You're hot," I'm still a little taken aback by it. I'm hot? Me? Has he seen me? Does he know the real me? And I immediately start to discount this comment as untrue. How can anyone see me that way? If a man cruises me (cruises = gay talk for making prolonged and potentially flirtatious eye contact that is meant to convey sexual interest), I think that he's looking at someone behind me.So, I guess

what I'm saying to answer your question is that yes, this process affects sexuality, at least it did in my case. You know, as morbidly obese people, we often dream of having someone notice us for how handsome or beautiful we are, or at least we wonder what it would be like to be desired in that way. Being desired has caused me to be shaken at my core with fear, but as with all this process, walking through that fear, and just enjoying it as a gift of passion from God—with no need to act on it at all—is the key.I didn't become a wanton slut. But I've been given entrée into a life I've never known: the dating life that others go through in high school and college. And it's been such a wondrous experience. Yes, there have been disappointments, and I haven't yet found Mr. Right, but somehow, I've drawn so many dates that my friends call me "Date-o-matic." For example, in the last three weeks I've

been on nine dates with eight different guys. The last few days have been kind of crazy—two dates on Sunday, one yesterday, and another tonight. And one of them (whom I've dated and known for a while) wrote me a card that said, "Francisco, It seems insufficient to write it… but you've become a light in my life. Hugs and kisses, Joe." (This will be the subject of another post…)Yikes, this is going on forever, but I'll end with this. I think I've drawn men to me because somehow they sense that my deep desire to be loved has been fulfilled. I desire their companionship not to fill a void in my heart, but rather to shave a love that dwells within me. The more you feed that love, the more it grows. Many of us post-opers have been called radiant. I believe that's where that radiance comes from—the gift of love we give ourselves.Francisco

December 7, 2005

Robynn You are so right. It wasn't me getting small that made my marriage end up staying together, it was my husband learning life is better if you have boundaries yourself and respecting others, learning self esteem, not having to be co-dependent and how to use anger when necessary in an appropriate way. WOW what a difference, and the magic is back, his depression is gone, and life is good. You sound wonderful too, glad things are working out so well for you. You take care. DonnaRobynn VanPatten wrote: Lilka: Francisco and I have met and talked about these very things before, and that's where we originally got the idea to maybe try to create a support group where people can talk about things like this...instead of focusing on the latest protein

drink. It didn't really get off the ground for various reasons...but I haven't given up the idea. Like Francisco, I am a survivor of sexual abuse as a child. Somewhere along the way, I had a twisted self-perception: my value to men was my sexuality. I never became promiscious, per se..but I also didn't really live up to my own religious/ethical standards (which were probably too strict, anyway.) I was constantly in turmoil: on the one hand, I was a very sexual woman and I had some meaningful and loving sexual relationships. On the other hand, that kind of intimacy sometimes caused me fear on a deep level...and I would gain weight as a protective device. I also wound up in long-term relationships that were not sexually fulfilling: different drives. Mine was higher. As someone who felt unfulfilled, I used food to munch down the passion that wasn't being expressed

sexually. ANd then, i also packed on lbs as a protective device to keep men away...to help me remain faithful to my then boyfriend..or later on, my husband. This didn't work, because even when I was very heavy, I did manage to attract men to me. I have been pretty much normal weight and also morbidly obese as a sexually active woman. There are fewer opportunities and choices when you are very heavy to be sure. It's harder to find sexy lingerie, harder to find the "little black dress: that makes you look attractive...and it's harder to feel good about yourself and your sexuality. Further, sometimes, physically...it's a bit harder for some obese women to find sexual pleasure when they are heavier: partly, it's due to being self-conscious, and thereby unable to "lose control". Partly, it's because your stomach can get in the way of full coital contact.

ANd partly, when you aren't in an environment where men are viewing you in a sexual way (or women), it's hard to think of yourself as a sexual being. It becomes one of those "use it or lose it" situations. You feel unattractive, and gain weight, if you have PCOS (lots of overweight women do), the more weight you gain, the more your hormones conspire against your sexual desires...also, you can start getting facial hair and other things which make you feel masculine, and not desirable. So, I have found that as I lose weight, more people notice me in a sexual way. This used to scare me when I was younger...but as Francisco has mentioned...I'm a grown up. I establish boundaries for what I eat (you learn to say, "NO, and I really mean NO, I do not want to eat chocolate cake. it will make me sick. Please respect what I've said"), and I can do it for my sexuality, too. My marriage was on the

rocks for a long time, and nearly two years ago I separated from my husband (more than a year before I had my surgery.) Prior to separating, I became very vulnerable to a gorgeous French man, and I was very drawn in by his attraction to me (as well as by my attraction to him.) I never cheated on my husband during our marriage, and Olivier and I never slept together. However, I was ignited sexually by my desire for him...and by the idea of the two of us together...by his desire for me. I started buying different clothes, making sure I had perfume on and some nice lingerie. I started thinking of myself as beautiful and sexually desirable again.. All of this started when I weighed 240 lbs. I now weigh 163. When things started to go awry with Olivier, and I felt unwanted or desirable to him, and when I started to try and "save" my marriage, I gained back up to 261 (after having lost down to 205

during the first blush of our attraction). So now here I am. I wear sexy clothes, but not all of the time. Some of my stuff is conservative. I wear what is appropriate for the occasion. The other day, a Marina Girl (i.e. 20 or 30 something, very beautiful, thin, rich and successful) said, "You always look so cute. You really have that Casual Chic thing down." It was a tremendous compliment to me, because I just threw on a pair of jeans, a little top, a pair of boots, and a necklace and a bracelet. I always wanted to be able to dress that simply (as opposed to dressing to the nines) and look casual and elegant and attractive. Apparently, I have arrived...even in the eyes of a Marina Girl. It blew me away. I get a lot of attention from men, including my boss...who totally treats me differently than he used to. Men do somersaults to open

doors for me. More men establish eye contact and tell me I have a beautiful smile or tell me with their body language that they appreciate the way I look. And that's wonderful. It's a compliment. It's terrific. But part of it has nothing to do with who I am. They like the package. And hey, the package counts. But there is more to me. They haven't seen that part. And that's ok. They won't BE seeing that part. I happen to know the rest of me is even better than the way I look. But instead, i found this guy on the Internet, who didn't see a photo of me for the first month or so that we got to know each other. After we started to talk, I sent a relatively recent photo (prior to my weightloss). I then also sent him old photos from when I was thinner and younger, but I identified them as such. (I had avoided cameras and didn't really have any

current photos that weren't me plastered on the arm of my husband or various boyfriends.) He really liked me. Just the way I was. And then, when he met me, I was much thinner. I was 171 (now I'm 11 lbs. lighter). He was blown away by the way I looked...but he loved me regardless of whether I was fat or thin. Our sexual chemistry is tremendous, and the sexual relationship is loving and passionate and meaningful. (by the way, the divorce has begun.) Now, he's moving from France and he's going to be living with me come January. He's a wonderful guy, and he loves me. I say, "what do you love about me?" He responds, "I love many things about you...but that's not WHY I love you. I love you because I simply love you. And all of those great things may change, you may gain weight, get old, have an accident and not be so funny and intelligent anymore...but even so, I will still love

you. You were made for me, and I was made for you." And here's the thing...he really believes that. Meanwhile, the other French guy is telling me that he still loves me, that he always will (he was never able to step up to the plate fully before because of a lot of reasons). Is he saying all of that now because I'm thin? No, I really don't think so. I sent him an updated picture of me(at his request), and after he finished telling me that he and I look much better together than eric and i do (I sent him an and me photo), I asked how he thought I looked. He said, "Beautiful, as always. You are always beautiful, you always have been, always will be." I said, "Yeah, but hello! I'm a lot thinner now, what do you think? Don't I look better now?" He said, "When I met you at that party 5 years ago, when you walked in...there was no one else who existed on the

planet. You were a star. I couldn't take my eyes off of you. Nothing has changed now that you are thinner." The thing is, I believe what he is saying. Because he saw me with eyes of love. They both loved me, and were attracted to me regardless of my weight. Olivier for sure, because he met me when I was thinner...and , probably, because he saw a photo of me when I was heavier. The biggest change is me. I see the change. In my comfort level. I can let go of self-consciousness. I am not afraid of being judged harshly by men who would have dismissed me because I'm a "fat girl" when I walk into a room. I smile, I establish eye contact. I move more gracefully. I feel more attractive. And so, I get more attention than I used to. But I keep in mind that I am projecting something different out into the

universe now, and thus, I am creating a different response in others. That's all. I'm not a better or worse, more or less worthwhile person. My soul is no more or less attractive than it used to be. I'm just sending a different vibe out. And yes, there are men and women out there who respond favorably to what is deemed to be "universally attractive"...and thus, they may show you more positive energy when you aren't restrained by your extra weight...when your facial bones show more...when your eyes enlarge because they are freed of the pudginess that surrounds them now... And some of those people are totally superfical jerks who you will discover are totally superficial jerks five minutes into the conversation. You dismiss those people, and you move on. But some of those people are cool people, with lots of good things gonig on inside...and they are more accessible and open to you,

because the barrier of fat is gone. People can't help what they are attracted to in a person on a physical level. It is programming from early childhood. The women in their lives, their perceptions of beauty...what the first girl that awakened their sexuality looked like. They aren't bad people just because they have certain preferences. So, yes, those are new people in your field that maybe you wouldn't have had a shot at before, because they wouldn't go in through a front door painted blue. But now that it is painted red, they walk in willingly and explore the rest of the house within. This society does value beauty. Television, advertisements, etc. Even in the animal world, there are some individuals who are viewed as more sexually attractive than others. If you just realize that, you can let go of anger ("Oh sure, why didn't

you notice me before? HUH???") and also, you can let go of the sense of desperation that might throw you into the arms of man after man. Because, it's all just science...this science of physical attraction. It's biology. And while somebody responding to you biologically is flattering, there is no magic there. It's just science. But the magic. Well, the magic is there in the connection between souls. And those souls connect whether you are fat or thin...as long as you are available, open and ready and willing to connect. And if you feel more comfortable, WORTHY, and willing to risk because you no longer are constrained by your self-consciousness of extra weight...you may just reach out more to other people...and you may find that magic out there. You can screw every guy or gal around. You can always find somebody willing. Shoot, you can go to a sex club at 500

lbs. and find somebody willing to do you. These are options you have now. When you are thin, the same will be true...and you'll probably find even more opportunities. But you don't have to take all of those opportunities. You can hold out for the magic. I did. And I'm glad I did. Robynn Diane Duenas wrote: Man I wish I could write like you Francisco. You state what I too struggle with so eloquently!! Have I told you recently how much Ive missed you in here. I know we kept in contact off site, but Ive missed your inspiration in here.Huggles>> Lilka:> > I pondered a lot about how to respond to your question about how this > operation, this process affects large people sexually. I didn't > mention sex in my list of desires because sex to me is an extension > of my heart. They are linked one to another. Sex to me is > incredibly unfulfilling without some emotion attached to, without a > connection, however brief, to another's soul. Some people have this > stereotype of gay men being wanton sexual predators unable to control > their impulses. I'm not that way, nor are the men I've dated. I'm > not saying that there are not gay men (and straight men) like that, > but it's just not me (no judgment implied).> > I know one of my big fears about losing weight was becoming

more > attractive, and hence, more available in a sexual way. As this > journey has unfolded, my fears did not come to pass. True, I've > dated many men since the break up of my 11-year long-term > relationship. (Let me state for the record, "date" does not > necessarily imply "sexual liaison"… I'm talking meeting for coffee at > Starbucks (decaf, non-fat, no foam latte), a walk along the Marina > Harbor, or dinner and a movie… perhaps some hand holding, a little > kissing and a hug or two. But I digress…) > > I was terrified that I would become uncontrollable in the same way > that I was out of control with food. And then it hit me. I have the > ability to say, "No." No is a difficult word for many of us who are > used to being such people pleasers. And as I worked on building > boundaries around food, abound the treatment I

expect from others, > around every aspect of my new life, I knew that I could also build > boundaries around sexual behavior. I do not mean to imply that this > was an easy process. Indeed, it was quite difficult as I am a > survivor of childhood sexual abuse perpetrated by a female neighbor. > (No one should assume that this is what turned me "gay." I knew I > was gay before this happened, which only made it more horrific to > me. But again, I digress…)> > The thing is, as I learned that food could not and would never fill > the void in my heart, I also saw a parallel with sex. Just as there > are many tasty morsels that are not good food choices for me, there > are also many tempting men in San Francisco—equally inappropriate > choices for me.> > As I got closer and closer to my goal weight, the way I was treated > took a huge

paradigm shift. As a morbidly obese gay man, I was > invisible in the Castro. A few times, I even got disparaging remarks > said to me as I passed someone on the sidewalk, or I could hear > snickering behind my back. Now I blend in, and sometimes, I've even > been the object of flirtatious behavior.> > Even now, when a man is attracted to me, it doesn't register as > true. I'm working on taking it in a just enjoying it, but for my > whole life, my self-esteem (the little that existed) was based > entirely on personality characteristics, not physical ones. I valued > myself as a caring, thoughtful, intelligent, introspective, > empathetic man. I was so happy when my ex (Zach) fell in love with > that part of me. But when someone now tells me, "You're hot," I'm > still a little taken aback by it. I'm hot? Me? Has he seen

me? > Does he know the real me? And I immediately start to discount this > comment as untrue. How can anyone see me that way? If a man cruises > me (cruises = gay talk for making prolonged and potentially > flirtatious eye contact that is meant to convey sexual interest), I > think that he's looking at someone behind me.> > So, I guess what I'm saying to answer your question is that yes, this > process affects sexuality, at least it did in my case. You know, as > morbidly obese people, we often dream of having someone notice us for > how handsome or beautiful we are, or at least we wonder what it would > be like to be desired in that way. Being desired has caused me to be > shaken at my core with fear, but as with all this process, walking > through that fear, and just enjoying it as a gift of passion from God—> with no

need to act on it at all—is the key.> > I didn't become a wanton slut. But I've been given entrée into a > life I've never known: the dating life that others go through in high > school and college. And it's been such a wondrous experience. Yes, > there have been disappointments, and I haven't yet found Mr. Right, > but somehow, I've drawn so many dates that my friends call me "Date-o-> matic." For example, in the last three weeks I've been on nine dates > with eight different guys. The last few days have been kind of crazy—> two dates on Sunday, one yesterday, and another tonight. And one of > them (whom I've dated and known for a while) wrote me a card that > said, "Francisco, It seems insufficient to write it… but you've > become a light in my life. Hugs and kisses, Joe." (This will be the > subject of another

post…)> > Yikes, this is going on forever, but I'll end with this. I think > I've drawn men to me because somehow they sense that my deep desire > to be loved has been fulfilled. I desire their companionship not to > fill a void in my heart, but rather to shave a love that dwells > within me. The more you feed that love, the more it grows. Many of > us post-opers have been called radiant. I believe that's where that > radiance comes from—the gift of love we give ourselves.> > Francisco> Donna JordonDSJordon@...

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December 7, 2005