Jump to content
RemedySpot.com

Re: Thanks to Everyone

Rate this topic


Guest guest

Recommended Posts

Hey ,

Is he still planning to come on the 25th? I think Dr. Pirani will

convince him by just telling him the medical facts. And explaining

step by step the processes involved.

The Ponseti method is not some 'alternative' kind of cf treatment, it

is fast becoming the main treatment for this deformity. Give it a few

more years and it will be the norm! Parents are just plain demanding

it. It is forcing orthopedic surgeons that have resisted for years to

even look at the data (because it does not involve surgery which is

what they spent all those years in medical school studing then

putting into practice)to change.

Granted, your current doc does not jump right to surgery but her

method of treating cf is not Ponseti which is just sooooo superior. I

am sure your dh will see this when he speaks with Dr. Pirani. And if

he doesn't come, you will see and you will be so resolute in the

treatment Hayden should have!!

I am sorry you are having to deal with this extra shi# but honestly,

once Hayden is on the right track and you feel better about his care,

everything else will work itself out I promise!

ttys

& Grace

> >

> > , the problem with fiberglass casts is that

> the doc cannot

> form them around the foot as " custom " as a plaster

> cast, and it's

> very key that the doc form the cast and hold the foot

> totally exact

> as it hardens, smoothing it in where it needs formed

> to fit like a

> glove. Like I said before, the bones in the foot have

> to be placed

> in a very specific, sequential manner to do any good

> and held there

> while casted. It's not a cast just anyone can apply

> as perhaps a

> broken-leg cast could be. There shouldn't be any

> bruising. It

> should be done slowly and methodically holding the

> bones exactly as

> it's done.

> >

> > The FAB (dbb) isn't going to stay on if his foot

> isn't corrected to

> begin with. The FAB is NOT to correct a foot but to

> MAINTAIN

> correction - big difference! Many docs seem to over

> look that little

> fact.

> >

> > Also, prior patients feet might look normal on the

> out side but

> that's no proof they will remain normal thorugh out

> life. Have you

> spoken to any adult patients or at least teen age/oder

> kids whove

> been treated here? What are theire results?

> >

> > The tenotomy is a very minor, one=time deal. My dh

> stayed in with

> our 2nd son while he had the tenotomy. It was one

> little prick in

> the heel and over with. Ten minutes or so start to

> finish, numbing

> the skin, pricking the tendon to release it, then

> re-casting so the

> foot would heal in the right position. Wiggling a

> needs injecting a

> burning agent sounds like hell to me compared to the

> tenotomy. My

> nephew got botox shots for a non-cf condition and he

> says the pain

> was unbearable.

> >

> > I still say you should seek alternative treatments

> because it is

> taking too long. Your kid should be done by now and

> moved on to much

> greener pastures in his treatment by this many weeks

> in to the deal.

> My 1st son's doctor really believed in what he was

> doing too - and

> had other " happy " patients, but he totally screwed up

> my kid and I

> didn't realize it until it was too late. It's not too

> late for your

> kid.

> > Thanks to Everyone

> >

> >

> > First off a great big thanks to so many caring and

> concerned people

> > for all of your responses, support and suggestions,

> as well as

> > direction to articles, etc.

> >

> > I feel I should clarify a few things so that you can

> all have a

> fuller

> > understanding of the issues with Hayden's skin. It

> is not my

> > intention to bash on Dr. Alvarez because I feel that

> she truly

> > believes in what she is doing. And she has had

> success, no doubt

> > about it, as I have seen the older children that she

> has treated

> from

> > infancy. They look fine and all of the parents seem

> to think the

> > Botox is a good idea and that it works. It is not

> like Hayden has

> not

> > made progress, either. His feet are worlds

> different from what they

> > were at birth. I will post some photos so you can

> see the

> comparison.

> > My biggest issues have been with her particular

> bedside manner

> > (blunt) and the fact that Hayden screams so much

> when she is

> examining

> > him or when she was holding his foot in position for

> the casting.

> > When I took the casts off, there were often bruises

> across the tops

> of

> > feet from where she had held his foot. This was

> very disconcerting

> > for me, but I was always told that this was normal.

> Let me say that

> > this did not offer me much reassurance. No one

> likes to see their

> > child marked in any way and while I understand that

> the treatment is

> > going to involve discomfort in some form along the

> way, it honestly

> > was starting to feel like ritual torture every week.

> >

> > The casts that Hayden had applied were fibreglass

> with a batting-

> type

> > underlayer. I do not know what fibre it was, but it

> appeared to be

> > cotton. The final casts he had were put on with a

> cotton flannel

> > underlay which actually made his skin worse and was

> stuck to his

> skin

> > in many places where it had been weeping. There has

> been another

> > little girl undergoing the same treatment as Hayden

> with the same

> > issues. Both babies were large at birth (Hayden 9

> pounds, Baby

> Girl 9

> > pounds 13 ounces) which made them sweaty and overly

> warm to start

> > with. We had an unusually hot and humid summer this

> year that did

> not

> > help. Having a cast on in that kind of heat must be

> like wearing

> > three pairs of pants under a snow suit in the

> Bahamas! Knowing that

> > the other child was enduring the same problems with

> her skin made me

> > think that this was not an allergic reaction. It

> was suggested to

> me

> > that the reason his feet were taking longer to

> correct was because

> it

> > was so hot - his feet were swollen and they could

> not get a proper

> > position each time. The second to last casts we had

> on were done by

> > another doctor because we were there on a different

> day and I

> noticed

> > that he worked very hard to get a " heel " in the cast

> and took his

> > time. I did see a big difference after that cast

> came off. That

> > being said, the Club Foot Clinic at Children's is

> very busy and I

> know

> > they are trying to see as many people as they can.

> >

> > I'm still feeling very uncertain about the boots and

> bar. I think

> > they are the Dennis Brown type. I kind of got a

> " just tough it out "

> > response when I expressed concerns about how well

> they are fitting

> him

> > as they continue to slip on his feet or come

> completely off. He's a

> > real kicker and don't think for a moment he hasn't

> realized he can

> > free himself if he tries hard enough! I know that

> some of the

> > fussiness can come from them just not wanting to be

> in them as they

> > are restrictive. But when I see his foot has

> slipped and he is

> > cranky, I can't understand how that would be

> comfortable and don't

> > think that I should be having to replace/adjust them

> all day long.

> > How can they do their job if they don't fit

> properly? I have tried

> > the socks without seams and the socks with grips on

> the bottom and

> > neither seems better than the other. When I look at

> Hayden's feet

> in

> > socks, the right foot seems to be be fine, but the

> left does not

> fill

> > out the heel.

> >

> > I am interested in meeting with Dr. Pirani. If he

> decides that

> Hayden

> > will need more casts, then I am okay with that but

> it still brings

> the

> > skin issue along with it. And maybe he will have

> other suggestions

> to

> > that end. I am not keen on the idea of a tenotomy,

> but after

> thinking

> > about it a bit, I don't think that it is any more or

> less invasive

> > than the Botox treatment. The Botox consisted of

> inserting the

> needle

> > and then moving it all around the tendon and

> injecting it bit by

> bit.

> > I suppose if it would help bring the tendon down

> just that little

> bit

> > more, then I would agree to it.

> >

> > At any rate, I am glad that I have this group of

> people to rely on

> and

> > appreciate all of your kind words!

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

Link to comment
Share on other sites

-

Would it help your husband to see corrected feet?? So then he knows

that your son's feet are not corrected? Let me know as I have oodles

of cute pictures of tootsies to send you! You can email me privately

at leenernd @ hotmail .com(minus the spaces). I just emailed Dr

Ponseti about a month ago to get his opinion on my son's feet-he was

so kind and reassuring that 's tootsies are indeed corrected!

let me know-

kathleen

mom to david 13 months fab 12/7

> >

> > , the problem with fiberglass casts is that

> the doc cannot

> form them around the foot as " custom " as a plaster

> cast, and it's

> very key that the doc form the cast and hold the foot

> totally exact

> as it hardens, smoothing it in where it needs formed

> to fit like a

> glove. Like I said before, the bones in the foot have

> to be placed

> in a very specific, sequential manner to do any good

> and held there

> while casted. It's not a cast just anyone can apply

> as perhaps a

> broken-leg cast could be. There shouldn't be any

> bruising. It

> should be done slowly and methodically holding the

> bones exactly as

> it's done.

> >

> > The FAB (dbb) isn't going to stay on if his foot

> isn't corrected to

> begin with. The FAB is NOT to correct a foot but to

> MAINTAIN

> correction - big difference! Many docs seem to over

> look that little

> fact.

> >

> > Also, prior patients feet might look normal on the

> out side but

> that's no proof they will remain normal thorugh out

> life. Have you

> spoken to any adult patients or at least teen age/oder

> kids whove

> been treated here? What are theire results?

> >

> > The tenotomy is a very minor, one=time deal. My dh

> stayed in with

> our 2nd son while he had the tenotomy. It was one

> little prick in

> the heel and over with. Ten minutes or so start to

> finish, numbing

> the skin, pricking the tendon to release it, then

> re-casting so the

> foot would heal in the right position. Wiggling a

> needs injecting a

> burning agent sounds like hell to me compared to the

> tenotomy. My

> nephew got botox shots for a non-cf condition and he

> says the pain

> was unbearable.

> >

> > I still say you should seek alternative treatments

> because it is

> taking too long. Your kid should be done by now and

> moved on to much

> greener pastures in his treatment by this many weeks

> in to the deal.

> My 1st son's doctor really believed in what he was

> doing too - and

> had other " happy " patients, but he totally screwed up

> my kid and I

> didn't realize it until it was too late. It's not too

> late for your

> kid.

> > Thanks to Everyone

> >

> >

> > First off a great big thanks to so many caring and

> concerned people

> > for all of your responses, support and suggestions,

> as well as

> > direction to articles, etc.

> >

> > I feel I should clarify a few things so that you can

> all have a

> fuller

> > understanding of the issues with Hayden's skin. It

> is not my

> > intention to bash on Dr. Alvarez because I feel that

> she truly

> > believes in what she is doing. And she has had

> success, no doubt

> > about it, as I have seen the older children that she

> has treated

> from

> > infancy. They look fine and all of the parents seem

> to think the

> > Botox is a good idea and that it works. It is not

> like Hayden has

> not

> > made progress, either. His feet are worlds

> different from what they

> > were at birth. I will post some photos so you can

> see the

> comparison.

> > My biggest issues have been with her particular

> bedside manner

> > (blunt) and the fact that Hayden screams so much

> when she is

> examining

> > him or when she was holding his foot in position for

> the casting.

> > When I took the casts off, there were often bruises

> across the tops

> of

> > feet from where she had held his foot. This was

> very disconcerting

> > for me, but I was always told that this was normal.

> Let me say that

> > this did not offer me much reassurance. No one

> likes to see their

> > child marked in any way and while I understand that

> the treatment is

> > going to involve discomfort in some form along the

> way, it honestly

> > was starting to feel like ritual torture every week.

> >

> > The casts that Hayden had applied were fibreglass

> with a batting-

> type

> > underlayer. I do not know what fibre it was, but it

> appeared to be

> > cotton. The final casts he had were put on with a

> cotton flannel

> > underlay which actually made his skin worse and was

> stuck to his

> skin

> > in many places where it had been weeping. There has

> been another

> > little girl undergoing the same treatment as Hayden

> with the same

> > issues. Both babies were large at birth (Hayden 9

> pounds, Baby

> Girl 9

> > pounds 13 ounces) which made them sweaty and overly

> warm to start

> > with. We had an unusually hot and humid summer this

> year that did

> not

> > help. Having a cast on in that kind of heat must be

> like wearing

> > three pairs of pants under a snow suit in the

> Bahamas! Knowing that

> > the other child was enduring the same problems with

> her skin made me

> > think that this was not an allergic reaction. It

> was suggested to

> me

> > that the reason his feet were taking longer to

> correct was because

> it

> > was so hot - his feet were swollen and they could

> not get a proper

> > position each time. The second to last casts we had

> on were done by

> > another doctor because we were there on a different

> day and I

> noticed

> > that he worked very hard to get a " heel " in the cast

> and took his

> > time. I did see a big difference after that cast

> came off. That

> > being said, the Club Foot Clinic at Children's is

> very busy and I

> know

> > they are trying to see as many people as they can.

> >

> > I'm still feeling very uncertain about the boots and

> bar. I think

> > they are the Dennis Brown type. I kind of got a

> " just tough it out "

> > response when I expressed concerns about how well

> they are fitting

> him

> > as they continue to slip on his feet or come

> completely off. He's a

> > real kicker and don't think for a moment he hasn't

> realized he can

> > free himself if he tries hard enough! I know that

> some of the

> > fussiness can come from them just not wanting to be

> in them as they

> > are restrictive. But when I see his foot has

> slipped and he is

> > cranky, I can't understand how that would be

> comfortable and don't

> > think that I should be having to replace/adjust them

> all day long.

> > How can they do their job if they don't fit

> properly? I have tried

> > the socks without seams and the socks with grips on

> the bottom and

> > neither seems better than the other. When I look at

> Hayden's feet

> in

> > socks, the right foot seems to be be fine, but the

> left does not

> fill

> > out the heel.

> >

> > I am interested in meeting with Dr. Pirani. If he

> decides that

> Hayden

> > will need more casts, then I am okay with that but

> it still brings

> the

> > skin issue along with it. And maybe he will have

> other suggestions

> to

> > that end. I am not keen on the idea of a tenotomy,

> but after

> thinking

> > about it a bit, I don't think that it is any more or

> less invasive

> > than the Botox treatment. The Botox consisted of

> inserting the

> needle

> > and then moving it all around the tendon and

> injecting it bit by

> bit.

> > I suppose if it would help bring the tendon down

> just that little

> bit

> > more, then I would agree to it.

> >

> > At any rate, I am glad that I have this group of

> people to rely on

> and

> > appreciate all of your kind words!

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

Link to comment
Share on other sites

-

Would it help your husband to see corrected feet?? So then he knows

that your son's feet are not corrected? Let me know as I have oodles

of cute pictures of tootsies to send you! You can email me privately

at leenernd @ hotmail .com(minus the spaces). I just emailed Dr

Ponseti about a month ago to get his opinion on my son's feet-he was

so kind and reassuring that 's tootsies are indeed corrected!

let me know-

kathleen

mom to david 13 months fab 12/7

> >

> > , the problem with fiberglass casts is that

> the doc cannot

> form them around the foot as " custom " as a plaster

> cast, and it's

> very key that the doc form the cast and hold the foot

> totally exact

> as it hardens, smoothing it in where it needs formed

> to fit like a

> glove. Like I said before, the bones in the foot have

> to be placed

> in a very specific, sequential manner to do any good

> and held there

> while casted. It's not a cast just anyone can apply

> as perhaps a

> broken-leg cast could be. There shouldn't be any

> bruising. It

> should be done slowly and methodically holding the

> bones exactly as

> it's done.

> >

> > The FAB (dbb) isn't going to stay on if his foot

> isn't corrected to

> begin with. The FAB is NOT to correct a foot but to

> MAINTAIN

> correction - big difference! Many docs seem to over

> look that little

> fact.

> >

> > Also, prior patients feet might look normal on the

> out side but

> that's no proof they will remain normal thorugh out

> life. Have you

> spoken to any adult patients or at least teen age/oder

> kids whove

> been treated here? What are theire results?

> >

> > The tenotomy is a very minor, one=time deal. My dh

> stayed in with

> our 2nd son while he had the tenotomy. It was one

> little prick in

> the heel and over with. Ten minutes or so start to

> finish, numbing

> the skin, pricking the tendon to release it, then

> re-casting so the

> foot would heal in the right position. Wiggling a

> needs injecting a

> burning agent sounds like hell to me compared to the

> tenotomy. My

> nephew got botox shots for a non-cf condition and he

> says the pain

> was unbearable.

> >

> > I still say you should seek alternative treatments

> because it is

> taking too long. Your kid should be done by now and

> moved on to much

> greener pastures in his treatment by this many weeks

> in to the deal.

> My 1st son's doctor really believed in what he was

> doing too - and

> had other " happy " patients, but he totally screwed up

> my kid and I

> didn't realize it until it was too late. It's not too

> late for your

> kid.

> > Thanks to Everyone

> >

> >

> > First off a great big thanks to so many caring and

> concerned people

> > for all of your responses, support and suggestions,

> as well as

> > direction to articles, etc.

> >

> > I feel I should clarify a few things so that you can

> all have a

> fuller

> > understanding of the issues with Hayden's skin. It

> is not my

> > intention to bash on Dr. Alvarez because I feel that

> she truly

> > believes in what she is doing. And she has had

> success, no doubt

> > about it, as I have seen the older children that she

> has treated

> from

> > infancy. They look fine and all of the parents seem

> to think the

> > Botox is a good idea and that it works. It is not

> like Hayden has

> not

> > made progress, either. His feet are worlds

> different from what they

> > were at birth. I will post some photos so you can

> see the

> comparison.

> > My biggest issues have been with her particular

> bedside manner

> > (blunt) and the fact that Hayden screams so much

> when she is

> examining

> > him or when she was holding his foot in position for

> the casting.

> > When I took the casts off, there were often bruises

> across the tops

> of

> > feet from where she had held his foot. This was

> very disconcerting

> > for me, but I was always told that this was normal.

> Let me say that

> > this did not offer me much reassurance. No one

> likes to see their

> > child marked in any way and while I understand that

> the treatment is

> > going to involve discomfort in some form along the

> way, it honestly

> > was starting to feel like ritual torture every week.

> >

> > The casts that Hayden had applied were fibreglass

> with a batting-

> type

> > underlayer. I do not know what fibre it was, but it

> appeared to be

> > cotton. The final casts he had were put on with a

> cotton flannel

> > underlay which actually made his skin worse and was

> stuck to his

> skin

> > in many places where it had been weeping. There has

> been another

> > little girl undergoing the same treatment as Hayden

> with the same

> > issues. Both babies were large at birth (Hayden 9

> pounds, Baby

> Girl 9

> > pounds 13 ounces) which made them sweaty and overly

> warm to start

> > with. We had an unusually hot and humid summer this

> year that did

> not

> > help. Having a cast on in that kind of heat must be

> like wearing

> > three pairs of pants under a snow suit in the

> Bahamas! Knowing that

> > the other child was enduring the same problems with

> her skin made me

> > think that this was not an allergic reaction. It

> was suggested to

> me

> > that the reason his feet were taking longer to

> correct was because

> it

> > was so hot - his feet were swollen and they could

> not get a proper

> > position each time. The second to last casts we had

> on were done by

> > another doctor because we were there on a different

> day and I

> noticed

> > that he worked very hard to get a " heel " in the cast

> and took his

> > time. I did see a big difference after that cast

> came off. That

> > being said, the Club Foot Clinic at Children's is

> very busy and I

> know

> > they are trying to see as many people as they can.

> >

> > I'm still feeling very uncertain about the boots and

> bar. I think

> > they are the Dennis Brown type. I kind of got a

> " just tough it out "

> > response when I expressed concerns about how well

> they are fitting

> him

> > as they continue to slip on his feet or come

> completely off. He's a

> > real kicker and don't think for a moment he hasn't

> realized he can

> > free himself if he tries hard enough! I know that

> some of the

> > fussiness can come from them just not wanting to be

> in them as they

> > are restrictive. But when I see his foot has

> slipped and he is

> > cranky, I can't understand how that would be

> comfortable and don't

> > think that I should be having to replace/adjust them

> all day long.

> > How can they do their job if they don't fit

> properly? I have tried

> > the socks without seams and the socks with grips on

> the bottom and

> > neither seems better than the other. When I look at

> Hayden's feet

> in

> > socks, the right foot seems to be be fine, but the

> left does not

> fill

> > out the heel.

> >

> > I am interested in meeting with Dr. Pirani. If he

> decides that

> Hayden

> > will need more casts, then I am okay with that but

> it still brings

> the

> > skin issue along with it. And maybe he will have

> other suggestions

> to

> > that end. I am not keen on the idea of a tenotomy,

> but after

> thinking

> > about it a bit, I don't think that it is any more or

> less invasive

> > than the Botox treatment. The Botox consisted of

> inserting the

> needle

> > and then moving it all around the tendon and

> injecting it bit by

> bit.

> > I suppose if it would help bring the tendon down

> just that little

> bit

> > more, then I would agree to it.

> >

> > At any rate, I am glad that I have this group of

> people to rely on

> and

> > appreciate all of your kind words!

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

Link to comment
Share on other sites

You hit the nail on the head. HE is not doing any of his own research. He has

put this baby firmly in your hands so my opinion is you have his blessing to

rock it anyway you see fit.

Sweetie you have to think more about your child who cannot make his own

decisions and think less about hurting the ego of a grown man, even if he is

your husband. Is saving your husband's hurt feelings today going to be worth

watching your son suffer through this horrible treatment and a life time of ill

feet? It kind of ticks me off because it sounds like your dh is forcing you to

choose between either him or your child and that plain sucks. ... but if that is

the case, well that baby cannot take care of himself and if he could speak I can

almost guarentee he'd ask you for the easier, more painless, and more successful

form of treatment. But he can't ask. Therefore as his mother you have to act

on HIS behalf, screw your fear of your husband, screw your husband's attitude

and opinions. Your mother instinct is right, it's real, and you should be

trusting it. There's a time and place for that submissive wife stuff, but

compromising your child's health and welfare isn't one of them in my book.

Seriously ask yourself what you are waiting for? What are you afraid of? And

how strong are your regrets going to be in five years, ten years, twenty years,

for not trying an alternative while you had the chance? How do you face your

child through this painful stuff knowing it doesn't have to be painful? What

is really the worst that is going to happen to you if you go ahead and seek the

treatment option (Ponseti)? Are we condemning a child in some twisted effort to

save a marriage here? Ummm.....wow, don't get me started on that one but to

hear you talk you are dancing mighty close to the edge of saying that yourself

and if that's the case you have some serious soul searching to do.

Sorry to sound like a hard @$$ here but if he's not going to be part of the

solution, you need to take the bull by the horns and do what is right for a

helpless child you concieved and gave birth to. That baby didn't ask to be born

but there he is anyway and you have an obligation to him above all else until he

can become an adult and take care of himself.

That's my take on the situation. Hope I haven't pissed you off.

s.

> >

> > , the problem with fiberglass casts is that

> the doc cannot

> form them around the foot as " custom " as a plaster

> cast, and it's

> very key that the doc form the cast and hold the foot

> totally exact

> as it hardens, smoothing it in where it needs formed

> to fit like a

> glove. Like I said before, the bones in the foot have

> to be placed

> in a very specific, sequential manner to do any good

> and held there

> while casted. It's not a cast just anyone can apply

> as perhaps a

> broken-leg cast could be. There shouldn't be any

> bruising. It

> should be done slowly and methodically holding the

> bones exactly as

> it's done.

> >

> > The FAB (dbb) isn't going to stay on if his foot

> isn't corrected to

> begin with. The FAB is NOT to correct a foot but to

> MAINTAIN

> correction - big difference! Many docs seem to over

> look that little

> fact.

> >

> > Also, prior patients feet might look normal on the

> out side but

> that's no proof they will remain normal thorugh out

> life. Have you

> spoken to any adult patients or at least teen age/oder

> kids whove

> been treated here? What are theire results?

> >

> > The tenotomy is a very minor, one=time deal. My dh

> stayed in with

> our 2nd son while he had the tenotomy. It was one

> little prick in

> the heel and over with. Ten minutes or so start to

> finish, numbing

> the skin, pricking the tendon to release it, then

> re-casting so the

> foot would heal in the right position. Wiggling a

> needs injecting a

> burning agent sounds like hell to me compared to the

> tenotomy. My

> nephew got botox shots for a non-cf condition and he

> says the pain

> was unbearable.

> >

> > I still say you should seek alternative treatments

> because it is

> taking too long. Your kid should be done by now and

> moved on to much

> greener pastures in his treatment by this many weeks

> in to the deal.

> My 1st son's doctor really believed in what he was

> doing too - and

> had other " happy " patients, but he totally screwed up

> my kid and I

> didn't realize it until it was too late. It's not too

> late for your

> kid.

> > Thanks to Everyone

> >

> >

> > First off a great big thanks to so many caring and

> concerned people

> > for all of your responses, support and suggestions,

> as well as

> > direction to articles, etc.

> >

> > I feel I should clarify a few things so that you can

> all have a

> fuller

> > understanding of the issues with Hayden's skin. It

> is not my

> > intention to bash on Dr. Alvarez because I feel that

> she truly

> > believes in what she is doing. And she has had

> success, no doubt

> > about it, as I have seen the older children that she

> has treated

> from

> > infancy. They look fine and all of the parents seem

> to think the

> > Botox is a good idea and that it works. It is not

> like Hayden has

> not

> > made progress, either. His feet are worlds

> different from what they

> > were at birth. I will post some photos so you can

> see the

> comparison.

> > My biggest issues have been with her particular

> bedside manner

> > (blunt) and the fact that Hayden screams so much

> when she is

> examining

> > him or when she was holding his foot in position for

> the casting.

> > When I took the casts off, there were often bruises

> across the tops

> of

> > feet from where she had held his foot. This was

> very disconcerting

> > for me, but I was always told that this was normal.

> Let me say that

> > this did not offer me much reassurance. No one

> likes to see their

> > child marked in any way and while I understand that

> the treatment is

> > going to involve discomfort in some form along the

> way, it honestly

> > was starting to feel like ritual torture every week.

> >

> > The casts that Hayden had applied were fibreglass

> with a batting-

> type

> > underlayer. I do not know what fibre it was, but it

> appeared to be

> > cotton. The final casts he had were put on with a

> cotton flannel

> > underlay which actually made his skin worse and was

> stuck to his

> skin

> > in many places where it had been weeping. There has

> been another

> > little girl undergoing the same treatment as Hayden

> with the same

> > issues. Both babies were large at birth (Hayden 9

> pounds, Baby

> Girl 9

> > pounds 13 ounces) which made them sweaty and overly

> warm to start

> > with. We had an unusually hot and humid summer this

> year that did

> not

> > help. Having a cast on in that kind of heat must be

> like wearing

> > three pairs of pants under a snow suit in the

> Bahamas! Knowing that

> > the other child was enduring the same problems with

> her skin made me

> > think that this was not an allergic reaction. It

> was suggested to

> me

> > that the reason his feet were taking longer to

> correct was because

> it

> > was so hot - his feet were swollen and they could

> not get a proper

> > position each time. The second to last casts we had

> on were done by

> > another doctor because we were there on a different

> day and I

> noticed

> > that he worked very hard to get a " heel " in the cast

> and took his

> > time. I did see a big difference after that cast

> came off. That

> > being said, the Club Foot Clinic at Children's is

> very busy and I

> know

> > they are trying to see as many people as they can.

> >

> > I'm still feeling very uncertain about the boots and

> bar. I think

> > they are the Dennis Brown type. I kind of got a

> " just tough it out "

> > response when I expressed concerns about how well

> they are fitting

> him

> > as they continue to slip on his feet or come

> completely off. He's a

> > real kicker and don't think for a moment he hasn't

> realized he can

> > free himself if he tries hard enough! I know that

> some of the

> > fussiness can come from them just not wanting to be

> in them as they

> > are restrictive. But when I see his foot has

> slipped and he is

> > cranky, I can't understand how that would be

> comfortable and don't

> > think that I should be having to replace/adjust them

> all day long.

> > How can they do their job if they don't fit

> properly? I have tried

> > the socks without seams and the socks with grips on

> the bottom and

> > neither seems better than the other. When I look at

> Hayden's feet

> in

> > socks, the right foot seems to be be fine, but the

> left does not

> fill

> > out the heel.

> >

> > I am interested in meeting with Dr. Pirani. If he

> decides that

> Hayden

> > will need more casts, then I am okay with that but

> it still brings

> the

> > skin issue along with it. And maybe he will have

> other suggestions

> to

> > that end. I am not keen on the idea of a tenotomy,

> but after

> thinking

> > about it a bit, I don't think that it is any more or

> less invasive

> > than the Botox treatment. The Botox consisted of

> inserting the

> needle

> > and then moving it all around the tendon and

> injecting it bit by

> bit.

> > I suppose if it would help bring the tendon down

> just that little

> bit

> > more, then I would agree to it.

> >

> > At any rate, I am glad that I have this group of

> people to rely on

> and

> > appreciate all of your kind words!

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

Link to comment
Share on other sites

You hit the nail on the head. HE is not doing any of his own research. He has

put this baby firmly in your hands so my opinion is you have his blessing to

rock it anyway you see fit.

Sweetie you have to think more about your child who cannot make his own

decisions and think less about hurting the ego of a grown man, even if he is

your husband. Is saving your husband's hurt feelings today going to be worth

watching your son suffer through this horrible treatment and a life time of ill

feet? It kind of ticks me off because it sounds like your dh is forcing you to

choose between either him or your child and that plain sucks. ... but if that is

the case, well that baby cannot take care of himself and if he could speak I can

almost guarentee he'd ask you for the easier, more painless, and more successful

form of treatment. But he can't ask. Therefore as his mother you have to act

on HIS behalf, screw your fear of your husband, screw your husband's attitude

and opinions. Your mother instinct is right, it's real, and you should be

trusting it. There's a time and place for that submissive wife stuff, but

compromising your child's health and welfare isn't one of them in my book.

Seriously ask yourself what you are waiting for? What are you afraid of? And

how strong are your regrets going to be in five years, ten years, twenty years,

for not trying an alternative while you had the chance? How do you face your

child through this painful stuff knowing it doesn't have to be painful? What

is really the worst that is going to happen to you if you go ahead and seek the

treatment option (Ponseti)? Are we condemning a child in some twisted effort to

save a marriage here? Ummm.....wow, don't get me started on that one but to

hear you talk you are dancing mighty close to the edge of saying that yourself

and if that's the case you have some serious soul searching to do.

Sorry to sound like a hard @$$ here but if he's not going to be part of the

solution, you need to take the bull by the horns and do what is right for a

helpless child you concieved and gave birth to. That baby didn't ask to be born

but there he is anyway and you have an obligation to him above all else until he

can become an adult and take care of himself.

That's my take on the situation. Hope I haven't pissed you off.

s.

> >

> > , the problem with fiberglass casts is that

> the doc cannot

> form them around the foot as " custom " as a plaster

> cast, and it's

> very key that the doc form the cast and hold the foot

> totally exact

> as it hardens, smoothing it in where it needs formed

> to fit like a

> glove. Like I said before, the bones in the foot have

> to be placed

> in a very specific, sequential manner to do any good

> and held there

> while casted. It's not a cast just anyone can apply

> as perhaps a

> broken-leg cast could be. There shouldn't be any

> bruising. It

> should be done slowly and methodically holding the

> bones exactly as

> it's done.

> >

> > The FAB (dbb) isn't going to stay on if his foot

> isn't corrected to

> begin with. The FAB is NOT to correct a foot but to

> MAINTAIN

> correction - big difference! Many docs seem to over

> look that little

> fact.

> >

> > Also, prior patients feet might look normal on the

> out side but

> that's no proof they will remain normal thorugh out

> life. Have you

> spoken to any adult patients or at least teen age/oder

> kids whove

> been treated here? What are theire results?

> >

> > The tenotomy is a very minor, one=time deal. My dh

> stayed in with

> our 2nd son while he had the tenotomy. It was one

> little prick in

> the heel and over with. Ten minutes or so start to

> finish, numbing

> the skin, pricking the tendon to release it, then

> re-casting so the

> foot would heal in the right position. Wiggling a

> needs injecting a

> burning agent sounds like hell to me compared to the

> tenotomy. My

> nephew got botox shots for a non-cf condition and he

> says the pain

> was unbearable.

> >

> > I still say you should seek alternative treatments

> because it is

> taking too long. Your kid should be done by now and

> moved on to much

> greener pastures in his treatment by this many weeks

> in to the deal.

> My 1st son's doctor really believed in what he was

> doing too - and

> had other " happy " patients, but he totally screwed up

> my kid and I

> didn't realize it until it was too late. It's not too

> late for your

> kid.

> > Thanks to Everyone

> >

> >

> > First off a great big thanks to so many caring and

> concerned people

> > for all of your responses, support and suggestions,

> as well as

> > direction to articles, etc.

> >

> > I feel I should clarify a few things so that you can

> all have a

> fuller

> > understanding of the issues with Hayden's skin. It

> is not my

> > intention to bash on Dr. Alvarez because I feel that

> she truly

> > believes in what she is doing. And she has had

> success, no doubt

> > about it, as I have seen the older children that she

> has treated

> from

> > infancy. They look fine and all of the parents seem

> to think the

> > Botox is a good idea and that it works. It is not

> like Hayden has

> not

> > made progress, either. His feet are worlds

> different from what they

> > were at birth. I will post some photos so you can

> see the

> comparison.

> > My biggest issues have been with her particular

> bedside manner

> > (blunt) and the fact that Hayden screams so much

> when she is

> examining

> > him or when she was holding his foot in position for

> the casting.

> > When I took the casts off, there were often bruises

> across the tops

> of

> > feet from where she had held his foot. This was

> very disconcerting

> > for me, but I was always told that this was normal.

> Let me say that

> > this did not offer me much reassurance. No one

> likes to see their

> > child marked in any way and while I understand that

> the treatment is

> > going to involve discomfort in some form along the

> way, it honestly

> > was starting to feel like ritual torture every week.

> >

> > The casts that Hayden had applied were fibreglass

> with a batting-

> type

> > underlayer. I do not know what fibre it was, but it

> appeared to be

> > cotton. The final casts he had were put on with a

> cotton flannel

> > underlay which actually made his skin worse and was

> stuck to his

> skin

> > in many places where it had been weeping. There has

> been another

> > little girl undergoing the same treatment as Hayden

> with the same

> > issues. Both babies were large at birth (Hayden 9

> pounds, Baby

> Girl 9

> > pounds 13 ounces) which made them sweaty and overly

> warm to start

> > with. We had an unusually hot and humid summer this

> year that did

> not

> > help. Having a cast on in that kind of heat must be

> like wearing

> > three pairs of pants under a snow suit in the

> Bahamas! Knowing that

> > the other child was enduring the same problems with

> her skin made me

> > think that this was not an allergic reaction. It

> was suggested to

> me

> > that the reason his feet were taking longer to

> correct was because

> it

> > was so hot - his feet were swollen and they could

> not get a proper

> > position each time. The second to last casts we had

> on were done by

> > another doctor because we were there on a different

> day and I

> noticed

> > that he worked very hard to get a " heel " in the cast

> and took his

> > time. I did see a big difference after that cast

> came off. That

> > being said, the Club Foot Clinic at Children's is

> very busy and I

> know

> > they are trying to see as many people as they can.

> >

> > I'm still feeling very uncertain about the boots and

> bar. I think

> > they are the Dennis Brown type. I kind of got a

> " just tough it out "

> > response when I expressed concerns about how well

> they are fitting

> him

> > as they continue to slip on his feet or come

> completely off. He's a

> > real kicker and don't think for a moment he hasn't

> realized he can

> > free himself if he tries hard enough! I know that

> some of the

> > fussiness can come from them just not wanting to be

> in them as they

> > are restrictive. But when I see his foot has

> slipped and he is

> > cranky, I can't understand how that would be

> comfortable and don't

> > think that I should be having to replace/adjust them

> all day long.

> > How can they do their job if they don't fit

> properly? I have tried

> > the socks without seams and the socks with grips on

> the bottom and

> > neither seems better than the other. When I look at

> Hayden's feet

> in

> > socks, the right foot seems to be be fine, but the

> left does not

> fill

> > out the heel.

> >

> > I am interested in meeting with Dr. Pirani. If he

> decides that

> Hayden

> > will need more casts, then I am okay with that but

> it still brings

> the

> > skin issue along with it. And maybe he will have

> other suggestions

> to

> > that end. I am not keen on the idea of a tenotomy,

> but after

> thinking

> > about it a bit, I don't think that it is any more or

> less invasive

> > than the Botox treatment. The Botox consisted of

> inserting the

> needle

> > and then moving it all around the tendon and

> injecting it bit by

> bit.

> > I suppose if it would help bring the tendon down

> just that little

> bit

> > more, then I would agree to it.

> >

> > At any rate, I am glad that I have this group of

> people to rely on

> and

> > appreciate all of your kind words!

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Well this information is new to me so I appreciate the education.

s.

Thanks to Everyone

> >

> >

> > First off a great big thanks to so many caring and concerned

people

> > for all of your responses, support and suggestions, as well as

> > direction to articles, etc.

> >

> > I feel I should clarify a few things so that you can all have a

> fuller

> > understanding of the issues with Hayden's skin. It is not my

> > intention to bash on Dr. Alvarez because I feel that she truly

> > believes in what she is doing. And she has had success, no doubt

> > about it, as I have seen the older children that she has treated

> from

> > infancy. They look fine and all of the parents seem to think the

> > Botox is a good idea and that it works. It is not like Hayden

has

> not

> > made progress, either. His feet are worlds different from what

they

> > were at birth. I will post some photos so you can see the

> comparison.

> > My biggest issues have been with her particular bedside manner

> > (blunt) and the fact that Hayden screams so much when she is

> examining

> > him or when she was holding his foot in position for the casting.

> > When I took the casts off, there were often bruises across the

tops

> of

> > feet from where she had held his foot. This was very

disconcerting

> > for me, but I was always told that this was normal. Let me say

that

> > this did not offer me much reassurance. No one likes to see their

> > child marked in any way and while I understand that the treatment

is

> > going to involve discomfort in some form along the way, it

honestly

> > was starting to feel like ritual torture every week.

> >

> > The casts that Hayden had applied were fibreglass with a batting-

> type

> > underlayer. I do not know what fibre it was, but it appeared to

be

> > cotton. The final casts he had were put on with a cotton flannel

> > underlay which actually made his skin worse and was stuck to his

> skin

> > in many places where it had been weeping. There has been another

> > little girl undergoing the same treatment as Hayden with the same

> > issues. Both babies were large at birth (Hayden 9 pounds, Baby

> Girl 9

> > pounds 13 ounces) which made them sweaty and overly warm to start

> > with. We had an unusually hot and humid summer this year that

did

> not

> > help. Having a cast on in that kind of heat must be like wearing

> > three pairs of pants under a snow suit in the Bahamas! Knowing

that

> > the other child was enduring the same problems with her skin made

me

> > think that this was not an allergic reaction. It was suggested

to

> me

> > that the reason his feet were taking longer to correct was

because

> it

> > was so hot - his feet were swollen and they could not get a proper

> > position each time. The second to last casts we had on were done

by

> > another doctor because we were there on a different day and I

> noticed

> > that he worked very hard to get a " heel " in the cast and took his

> > time. I did see a big difference after that cast came off. That

> > being said, the Club Foot Clinic at Children's is very busy and I

> know

> > they are trying to see as many people as they can.

> >

> > I'm still feeling very uncertain about the boots and bar. I think

> > they are the Dennis Brown type. I kind of got a " just tough it

out "

> > response when I expressed concerns about how well they are

fitting

> him

> > as they continue to slip on his feet or come completely off.

He's a

> > real kicker and don't think for a moment he hasn't realized he can

> > free himself if he tries hard enough! I know that some of the

> > fussiness can come from them just not wanting to be in them as

they

> > are restrictive. But when I see his foot has slipped and he is

> > cranky, I can't understand how that would be comfortable and don't

> > think that I should be having to replace/adjust them all day

long.

> > How can they do their job if they don't fit properly? I have

tried

> > the socks without seams and the socks with grips on the bottom and

> > neither seems better than the other. When I look at Hayden's

feet

> in

> > socks, the right foot seems to be be fine, but the left does not

> fill

> > out the heel.

> >

> > I am interested in meeting with Dr. Pirani. If he decides that

> Hayden

> > will need more casts, then I am okay with that but it still

brings

> the

> > skin issue along with it. And maybe he will have other

suggestions

> to

> > that end. I am not keen on the idea of a tenotomy, but after

> thinking

> > about it a bit, I don't think that it is any more or less invasive

> > than the Botox treatment. The Botox consisted of inserting the

> needle

> > and then moving it all around the tendon and injecting it bit by

> bit.

> > I suppose if it would help bring the tendon down just that little

> bit

> > more, then I would agree to it.

> >

> > At any rate, I am glad that I have this group of people to rely

on

> and

> > appreciate all of your kind words!

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Well this information is new to me so I appreciate the education.

s.

Thanks to Everyone

> >

> >

> > First off a great big thanks to so many caring and concerned

people

> > for all of your responses, support and suggestions, as well as

> > direction to articles, etc.

> >

> > I feel I should clarify a few things so that you can all have a

> fuller

> > understanding of the issues with Hayden's skin. It is not my

> > intention to bash on Dr. Alvarez because I feel that she truly

> > believes in what she is doing. And she has had success, no doubt

> > about it, as I have seen the older children that she has treated

> from

> > infancy. They look fine and all of the parents seem to think the

> > Botox is a good idea and that it works. It is not like Hayden

has

> not

> > made progress, either. His feet are worlds different from what

they

> > were at birth. I will post some photos so you can see the

> comparison.

> > My biggest issues have been with her particular bedside manner

> > (blunt) and the fact that Hayden screams so much when she is

> examining

> > him or when she was holding his foot in position for the casting.

> > When I took the casts off, there were often bruises across the

tops

> of

> > feet from where she had held his foot. This was very

disconcerting

> > for me, but I was always told that this was normal. Let me say

that

> > this did not offer me much reassurance. No one likes to see their

> > child marked in any way and while I understand that the treatment

is

> > going to involve discomfort in some form along the way, it

honestly

> > was starting to feel like ritual torture every week.

> >

> > The casts that Hayden had applied were fibreglass with a batting-

> type

> > underlayer. I do not know what fibre it was, but it appeared to

be

> > cotton. The final casts he had were put on with a cotton flannel

> > underlay which actually made his skin worse and was stuck to his

> skin

> > in many places where it had been weeping. There has been another

> > little girl undergoing the same treatment as Hayden with the same

> > issues. Both babies were large at birth (Hayden 9 pounds, Baby

> Girl 9

> > pounds 13 ounces) which made them sweaty and overly warm to start

> > with. We had an unusually hot and humid summer this year that

did

> not

> > help. Having a cast on in that kind of heat must be like wearing

> > three pairs of pants under a snow suit in the Bahamas! Knowing

that

> > the other child was enduring the same problems with her skin made

me

> > think that this was not an allergic reaction. It was suggested

to

> me

> > that the reason his feet were taking longer to correct was

because

> it

> > was so hot - his feet were swollen and they could not get a proper

> > position each time. The second to last casts we had on were done

by

> > another doctor because we were there on a different day and I

> noticed

> > that he worked very hard to get a " heel " in the cast and took his

> > time. I did see a big difference after that cast came off. That

> > being said, the Club Foot Clinic at Children's is very busy and I

> know

> > they are trying to see as many people as they can.

> >

> > I'm still feeling very uncertain about the boots and bar. I think

> > they are the Dennis Brown type. I kind of got a " just tough it

out "

> > response when I expressed concerns about how well they are

fitting

> him

> > as they continue to slip on his feet or come completely off.

He's a

> > real kicker and don't think for a moment he hasn't realized he can

> > free himself if he tries hard enough! I know that some of the

> > fussiness can come from them just not wanting to be in them as

they

> > are restrictive. But when I see his foot has slipped and he is

> > cranky, I can't understand how that would be comfortable and don't

> > think that I should be having to replace/adjust them all day

long.

> > How can they do their job if they don't fit properly? I have

tried

> > the socks without seams and the socks with grips on the bottom and

> > neither seems better than the other. When I look at Hayden's

feet

> in

> > socks, the right foot seems to be be fine, but the left does not

> fill

> > out the heel.

> >

> > I am interested in meeting with Dr. Pirani. If he decides that

> Hayden

> > will need more casts, then I am okay with that but it still

brings

> the

> > skin issue along with it. And maybe he will have other

suggestions

> to

> > that end. I am not keen on the idea of a tenotomy, but after

> thinking

> > about it a bit, I don't think that it is any more or less invasive

> > than the Botox treatment. The Botox consisted of inserting the

> needle

> > and then moving it all around the tendon and injecting it bit by

> bit.

> > I suppose if it would help bring the tendon down just that little

> bit

> > more, then I would agree to it.

> >

> > At any rate, I am glad that I have this group of people to rely

on

> and

> > appreciate all of your kind words!

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

Link to comment
Share on other sites

No you haven't pissed me off, in fact I need someone

to speak (write) strongly to me like that in order to

confirm that I am doing the right thing!

I don't know if you get into the whole astrology

thing, but my husband is a Virgo and according to a

friend of ours, Virgos like things to stay the same

and find it hard to change. Unfortunately for him (or

fortunately for Hayden), I am a Cancer and once we

grab onto something like an idea, or a desire - we

don't let go. So I have an appointment to get the

referral for my appointment that is already set up

next week with Dr. Pirani!

As a concession to my husband, I am going to the

orthotist today to get the shoes looked at, but I know

it won't help. And even if they manage to get them to

stay on, I'm not beyond sabotaging that to make a

point. Wow - what a rebel! As I type this, the baby

is up in bed with dh and somehow his boots

" accidentally " slipped off! Actually, he kicked one

off and the other came off by " accident " !

I think that many men (and sorry to generalize here,

because I know there are lots of guys out there who

do) including my hubby don't understand the connection

between a mother and a child. This is my third child

and I have had a real mind/body connection with him

since he was conceived. He " told " me there would be

something different about him two days before he was

born, that is why I was not at all surprised that he

was clubfoot. Each of his cries is so distinct that I

know almost instantly what he wants/needs. My husband

will often say " I think he's just pissed off " and I

will say " no, that's the owie cry " or " that's his

hungry cry " because I knew them from the moment he was

born. This seems to have gotten stronger with each

child. Anyway, don't mean to come off all new age

because it is new to me to be so linked with my child

- but that is why I think dh should listen to my

intuition and not worry about losing face or whatever.

Thanks for your strong support! I appreciate and NEED

it! Now I just can't wait until we see Dr. Pirani

next week! Yay!

--- number23 wrote:

---------------------------------

You hit the nail on the head. HE is not doing any of

his own research. He has put this baby firmly in your

hands so my opinion is you have his blessing to rock

it anyway you see fit.

Sweetie you have to think more about your child who

cannot make his own decisions and think less about

hurting the ego of a grown man, even if he is your

husband. Is saving your husband's hurt feelings today

going to be worth watching your son suffer through

this horrible treatment and a life time of ill feet?

It kind of ticks me off because it sounds like your dh

is forcing you to choose between either him or your

child and that plain sucks. ... but if that is the

case, well that baby cannot take care of himself and

if he could speak I can almost guarentee he'd ask you

for the easier, more painless, and more successful

form of treatment. But he can't ask. Therefore as

his mother you have to act on HIS behalf, screw your

fear of your husband, screw your husband's attitude

and opinions. Your mother instinct is right, it's

real, and you should be trusting it. There's a time

and place for that submissive wife stuff, but

compromising your child's health and welfare isn't one

of them in my book.

Seriously ask yourself what you are waiting for? What

are you afraid of? And how strong are your regrets

going to be in five years, ten years, twenty years,

for not trying an alternative while you had the

chance? How do you face your child through this

painful stuff knowing it doesn't have to be painful?

What is really the worst that is going to happen to

you if you go ahead and seek the treatment option

(Ponseti)? Are we condemning a child in some twisted

effort to save a marriage here? Ummm.....wow, don't

get me started on that one but to hear you talk you

are dancing mighty close to the edge of saying that

yourself and if that's the case you have some serious

soul searching to do.

Sorry to sound like a hard @$$ here but if he's not

going to be part of the solution, you need to take the

bull by the horns and do what is right for a helpless

child you concieved and gave birth to. That baby

didn't ask to be born but there he is anyway and you

have an obligation to him above all else until he can

become an adult and take care of himself.

That's my take on the situation. Hope I haven't

pissed you off.

s.

> >

> > , the problem with fiberglass casts is that

> the doc cannot

> form them around the foot as " custom " as a plaster

> cast, and it's

> very key that the doc form the cast and hold the

foot

> totally exact

> as it hardens, smoothing it in where it needs formed

> to fit like a

> glove. Like I said before, the bones in the foot

have

> to be placed

> in a very specific, sequential manner to do any good

> and held there

> while casted. It's not a cast just anyone can

apply

> as perhaps a

> broken-leg cast could be. There shouldn't be any

> bruising. It

> should be done slowly and methodically holding the

> bones exactly as

> it's done.

> >

> > The FAB (dbb) isn't going to stay on if his foot

> isn't corrected to

> begin with. The FAB is NOT to correct a foot but to

> MAINTAIN

> correction - big difference! Many docs seem to over

> look that little

> fact.

> >

> > Also, prior patients feet might look normal on the

> out side but

> that's no proof they will remain normal thorugh out

> life. Have you

> spoken to any adult patients or at least teen

age/oder

> kids whove

> been treated here? What are theire results?

> >

> > The tenotomy is a very minor, one=time deal. My

dh

> stayed in with

> our 2nd son while he had the tenotomy. It was one

> little prick in

> the heel and over with. Ten minutes or so start to

> finish, numbing

> the skin, pricking the tendon to release it, then

> re-casting so the

> foot would heal in the right position. Wiggling a

> needs injecting a

> burning agent sounds like hell to me compared to

the

> tenotomy. My

> nephew got botox shots for a non-cf condition and he

> says the pain

> was unbearable.

> >

> > I still say you should seek alternative treatments

> because it is

> taking too long. Your kid should be done by now and

> moved on to much

> greener pastures in his treatment by this many weeks

> in to the deal.

> My 1st son's doctor really believed in what he was

> doing too - and

> had other " happy " patients, but he totally screwed

up

> my kid and I

> didn't realize it until it was too late. It's not

too

> late for your

> kid.

> > Thanks to Everyone

> >

> >

> > First off a great big thanks to so many caring and

> concerned people

> > for all of your responses, support and

suggestions,

> as well as

> > direction to articles, etc.

> >

> > I feel I should clarify a few things so that you

can

> all have a

> fuller

> > understanding of the issues with Hayden's skin.

It

> is not my

> > intention to bash on Dr. Alvarez because I feel

that

> she truly

> > believes in what she is doing. And she has had

> success, no doubt

> > about it, as I have seen the older children that

she

> has treated

> from

> > infancy. They look fine and all of the parents

seem

> to think the

> > Botox is a good idea and that it works. It is not

> like Hayden has

> not

> > made progress, either. His feet are worlds

> different from what they

> > were at birth. I will post some photos so you can

> see the

> comparison.

> > My biggest issues have been with her particular

> bedside manner

> > (blunt) and the fact that Hayden screams so much

> when she is

> examining

> > him or when she was holding his foot in position

for

> the casting.

> > When I took the casts off, there were often

bruises

> across the tops

> of

> > feet from where she had held his foot. This was

> very disconcerting

> > for me, but I was always told that this was

normal.

> Let me say that

> > this did not offer me much reassurance. No one

> likes to see their

> > child marked in any way and while I understand

that

> the treatment is

> > going to involve discomfort in some form along the

> way, it honestly

> > was starting to feel like ritual torture every

week.

> >

> > The casts that Hayden had applied were fibreglass

> with a batting-

> type

> > underlayer. I do not know what fibre it was, but

it

> appeared to be

> > cotton. The final casts he had were put on with a

> cotton flannel

> > underlay which actually made his skin worse and

was

> stuck to his

> skin

> > in many places where it had been weeping. There

has

> been another

> > little girl undergoing the same treatment as

Hayden

> with the same

> > issues. Both babies were large at birth (Hayden 9

> pounds, Baby

> Girl 9

> > pounds 13 ounces) which made them sweaty and

overly

> warm to start

> > with. We had an unusually hot and humid summer

this

> year that did

> not

> > help. Having a cast on in that kind of heat must

be

> like wearing

> > three pairs of pants under a snow suit in the

> Bahamas! Knowing that

> > the other child was enduring the same problems

with

> her skin made me

> > think that this was not an allergic reaction. It

> was suggested to

> me

> > that the reason his feet were taking longer to

> correct was because

> it

> > was so hot - his feet were swollen and they could

> not get a proper

> > position each time. The second to last casts we

had

> on were done by

> > another doctor because we were there on a

different

> day and I

> noticed

> > that he worked very hard to get a " heel " in the

cast

> and took his

> > time. I did see a big difference after that cast

> came off. That

> > being said, the Club Foot Clinic at Children's is

> very busy and I

> know

> > they are trying to see as many people as they can.

> >

> > I'm still feeling very uncertain about the boots

and

> bar. I think

> > they are the Dennis Brown type. I kind of got a

> " just tough it out "

> > response when I expressed concerns about how well

> they are fitting

> him

> > as they continue to slip on his feet or come

> completely off. He's a

> > real kicker and don't think for a moment he hasn't

> realized he can

> > free himself if he tries hard enough! I know that

> some of the

> > fussiness can come from them just not wanting to

be

> in them as they

> > are restrictive. But when I see his foot has

> slipped and he is

> > cranky, I can't understand how that would be

> comfortable and don't

> > think that I should be having to replace/adjust

them

> all day long.

> > How can they do their job if they don't fit

> properly? I have tried

> > the socks without seams and the socks with grips

on

> the bottom and

> > neither seems better than the other. When I look

at

> Hayden's feet

> in

> > socks, the right foot seems to be be fine, but the

> left does not

> fill

> > out the heel.

> >

> > I am interested in meeting with Dr. Pirani. If he

> decides that

> Hayden

> > will need more casts, then I am okay with that but

> it still brings

> the

> > skin issue along with it. And maybe he will have

> other suggestions

> to

> > that end. I am not keen on the idea of a

tenotomy,

> but after

> thinking

> > about it a bit, I don't think that it is any more

or

> less invasive

> > than the Botox treatment. The Botox consisted of

> inserting the

> needle

> > and then moving it all around the tendon and

> injecting it bit by

> bit.

> > I suppose if it would help bring the tendon down

> just that little

> bit

> > more, then I would agree to it.

> >

> > At any rate, I am glad that I have this group of

> people to rely on

> and

> > appreciate all of your kind words!

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

Link to comment
Share on other sites

No you haven't pissed me off, in fact I need someone

to speak (write) strongly to me like that in order to

confirm that I am doing the right thing!

I don't know if you get into the whole astrology

thing, but my husband is a Virgo and according to a

friend of ours, Virgos like things to stay the same

and find it hard to change. Unfortunately for him (or

fortunately for Hayden), I am a Cancer and once we

grab onto something like an idea, or a desire - we

don't let go. So I have an appointment to get the

referral for my appointment that is already set up

next week with Dr. Pirani!

As a concession to my husband, I am going to the

orthotist today to get the shoes looked at, but I know

it won't help. And even if they manage to get them to

stay on, I'm not beyond sabotaging that to make a

point. Wow - what a rebel! As I type this, the baby

is up in bed with dh and somehow his boots

" accidentally " slipped off! Actually, he kicked one

off and the other came off by " accident " !

I think that many men (and sorry to generalize here,

because I know there are lots of guys out there who

do) including my hubby don't understand the connection

between a mother and a child. This is my third child

and I have had a real mind/body connection with him

since he was conceived. He " told " me there would be

something different about him two days before he was

born, that is why I was not at all surprised that he

was clubfoot. Each of his cries is so distinct that I

know almost instantly what he wants/needs. My husband

will often say " I think he's just pissed off " and I

will say " no, that's the owie cry " or " that's his

hungry cry " because I knew them from the moment he was

born. This seems to have gotten stronger with each

child. Anyway, don't mean to come off all new age

because it is new to me to be so linked with my child

- but that is why I think dh should listen to my

intuition and not worry about losing face or whatever.

Thanks for your strong support! I appreciate and NEED

it! Now I just can't wait until we see Dr. Pirani

next week! Yay!

--- number23 wrote:

---------------------------------

You hit the nail on the head. HE is not doing any of

his own research. He has put this baby firmly in your

hands so my opinion is you have his blessing to rock

it anyway you see fit.

Sweetie you have to think more about your child who

cannot make his own decisions and think less about

hurting the ego of a grown man, even if he is your

husband. Is saving your husband's hurt feelings today

going to be worth watching your son suffer through

this horrible treatment and a life time of ill feet?

It kind of ticks me off because it sounds like your dh

is forcing you to choose between either him or your

child and that plain sucks. ... but if that is the

case, well that baby cannot take care of himself and

if he could speak I can almost guarentee he'd ask you

for the easier, more painless, and more successful

form of treatment. But he can't ask. Therefore as

his mother you have to act on HIS behalf, screw your

fear of your husband, screw your husband's attitude

and opinions. Your mother instinct is right, it's

real, and you should be trusting it. There's a time

and place for that submissive wife stuff, but

compromising your child's health and welfare isn't one

of them in my book.

Seriously ask yourself what you are waiting for? What

are you afraid of? And how strong are your regrets

going to be in five years, ten years, twenty years,

for not trying an alternative while you had the

chance? How do you face your child through this

painful stuff knowing it doesn't have to be painful?

What is really the worst that is going to happen to

you if you go ahead and seek the treatment option

(Ponseti)? Are we condemning a child in some twisted

effort to save a marriage here? Ummm.....wow, don't

get me started on that one but to hear you talk you

are dancing mighty close to the edge of saying that

yourself and if that's the case you have some serious

soul searching to do.

Sorry to sound like a hard @$$ here but if he's not

going to be part of the solution, you need to take the

bull by the horns and do what is right for a helpless

child you concieved and gave birth to. That baby

didn't ask to be born but there he is anyway and you

have an obligation to him above all else until he can

become an adult and take care of himself.

That's my take on the situation. Hope I haven't

pissed you off.

s.

> >

> > , the problem with fiberglass casts is that

> the doc cannot

> form them around the foot as " custom " as a plaster

> cast, and it's

> very key that the doc form the cast and hold the

foot

> totally exact

> as it hardens, smoothing it in where it needs formed

> to fit like a

> glove. Like I said before, the bones in the foot

have

> to be placed

> in a very specific, sequential manner to do any good

> and held there

> while casted. It's not a cast just anyone can

apply

> as perhaps a

> broken-leg cast could be. There shouldn't be any

> bruising. It

> should be done slowly and methodically holding the

> bones exactly as

> it's done.

> >

> > The FAB (dbb) isn't going to stay on if his foot

> isn't corrected to

> begin with. The FAB is NOT to correct a foot but to

> MAINTAIN

> correction - big difference! Many docs seem to over

> look that little

> fact.

> >

> > Also, prior patients feet might look normal on the

> out side but

> that's no proof they will remain normal thorugh out

> life. Have you

> spoken to any adult patients or at least teen

age/oder

> kids whove

> been treated here? What are theire results?

> >

> > The tenotomy is a very minor, one=time deal. My

dh

> stayed in with

> our 2nd son while he had the tenotomy. It was one

> little prick in

> the heel and over with. Ten minutes or so start to

> finish, numbing

> the skin, pricking the tendon to release it, then

> re-casting so the

> foot would heal in the right position. Wiggling a

> needs injecting a

> burning agent sounds like hell to me compared to

the

> tenotomy. My

> nephew got botox shots for a non-cf condition and he

> says the pain

> was unbearable.

> >

> > I still say you should seek alternative treatments

> because it is

> taking too long. Your kid should be done by now and

> moved on to much

> greener pastures in his treatment by this many weeks

> in to the deal.

> My 1st son's doctor really believed in what he was

> doing too - and

> had other " happy " patients, but he totally screwed

up

> my kid and I

> didn't realize it until it was too late. It's not

too

> late for your

> kid.

> > Thanks to Everyone

> >

> >

> > First off a great big thanks to so many caring and

> concerned people

> > for all of your responses, support and

suggestions,

> as well as

> > direction to articles, etc.

> >

> > I feel I should clarify a few things so that you

can

> all have a

> fuller

> > understanding of the issues with Hayden's skin.

It

> is not my

> > intention to bash on Dr. Alvarez because I feel

that

> she truly

> > believes in what she is doing. And she has had

> success, no doubt

> > about it, as I have seen the older children that

she

> has treated

> from

> > infancy. They look fine and all of the parents

seem

> to think the

> > Botox is a good idea and that it works. It is not

> like Hayden has

> not

> > made progress, either. His feet are worlds

> different from what they

> > were at birth. I will post some photos so you can

> see the

> comparison.

> > My biggest issues have been with her particular

> bedside manner

> > (blunt) and the fact that Hayden screams so much

> when she is

> examining

> > him or when she was holding his foot in position

for

> the casting.

> > When I took the casts off, there were often

bruises

> across the tops

> of

> > feet from where she had held his foot. This was

> very disconcerting

> > for me, but I was always told that this was

normal.

> Let me say that

> > this did not offer me much reassurance. No one

> likes to see their

> > child marked in any way and while I understand

that

> the treatment is

> > going to involve discomfort in some form along the

> way, it honestly

> > was starting to feel like ritual torture every

week.

> >

> > The casts that Hayden had applied were fibreglass

> with a batting-

> type

> > underlayer. I do not know what fibre it was, but

it

> appeared to be

> > cotton. The final casts he had were put on with a

> cotton flannel

> > underlay which actually made his skin worse and

was

> stuck to his

> skin

> > in many places where it had been weeping. There

has

> been another

> > little girl undergoing the same treatment as

Hayden

> with the same

> > issues. Both babies were large at birth (Hayden 9

> pounds, Baby

> Girl 9

> > pounds 13 ounces) which made them sweaty and

overly

> warm to start

> > with. We had an unusually hot and humid summer

this

> year that did

> not

> > help. Having a cast on in that kind of heat must

be

> like wearing

> > three pairs of pants under a snow suit in the

> Bahamas! Knowing that

> > the other child was enduring the same problems

with

> her skin made me

> > think that this was not an allergic reaction. It

> was suggested to

> me

> > that the reason his feet were taking longer to

> correct was because

> it

> > was so hot - his feet were swollen and they could

> not get a proper

> > position each time. The second to last casts we

had

> on were done by

> > another doctor because we were there on a

different

> day and I

> noticed

> > that he worked very hard to get a " heel " in the

cast

> and took his

> > time. I did see a big difference after that cast

> came off. That

> > being said, the Club Foot Clinic at Children's is

> very busy and I

> know

> > they are trying to see as many people as they can.

> >

> > I'm still feeling very uncertain about the boots

and

> bar. I think

> > they are the Dennis Brown type. I kind of got a

> " just tough it out "

> > response when I expressed concerns about how well

> they are fitting

> him

> > as they continue to slip on his feet or come

> completely off. He's a

> > real kicker and don't think for a moment he hasn't

> realized he can

> > free himself if he tries hard enough! I know that

> some of the

> > fussiness can come from them just not wanting to

be

> in them as they

> > are restrictive. But when I see his foot has

> slipped and he is

> > cranky, I can't understand how that would be

> comfortable and don't

> > think that I should be having to replace/adjust

them

> all day long.

> > How can they do their job if they don't fit

> properly? I have tried

> > the socks without seams and the socks with grips

on

> the bottom and

> > neither seems better than the other. When I look

at

> Hayden's feet

> in

> > socks, the right foot seems to be be fine, but the

> left does not

> fill

> > out the heel.

> >

> > I am interested in meeting with Dr. Pirani. If he

> decides that

> Hayden

> > will need more casts, then I am okay with that but

> it still brings

> the

> > skin issue along with it. And maybe he will have

> other suggestions

> to

> > that end. I am not keen on the idea of a

tenotomy,

> but after

> thinking

> > about it a bit, I don't think that it is any more

or

> less invasive

> > than the Botox treatment. The Botox consisted of

> inserting the

> needle

> > and then moving it all around the tendon and

> injecting it bit by

> bit.

> > I suppose if it would help bring the tendon down

> just that little

> bit

> > more, then I would agree to it.

> >

> > At any rate, I am glad that I have this group of

> people to rely on

> and

> > appreciate all of your kind words!

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

Link to comment
Share on other sites

,

You don't sound new age at all! I knew my son was coming early, but

no one would believe me. I kept on telling my family to make

alternate plans for Christmas, thinking he was going to come on

December 24th. He decided he was ready a month earlier than that,

and came on November 24th.

In fact, the day my water broke, I was insiting that we pack my

hospital bag. My husband thought I was nuts. We still had a full

month and a half left to go. I was just about to get up to go

upstairs to pack when my water broke. He didn't think I was too nuts

then!

I know my son's cries as well. I can also tell when he's going to be

hungry or in need of a nap by the way he plays or crawls. He has

cues. I think all babies do, and it is our gift as their mom's to

recognize them.

My husband is slowly learning what the different cries and cues are,

but it is definitely taking him longer!

I'm so glad you are taking your little one for a second opinion. I

bet your husband will come around once your son's feet are corrected

and even more beautiful than they already are.

Best wishes!

> > >

> > > , the problem with fiberglass casts is that

> > the doc cannot

> > form them around the foot as " custom " as a plaster

> > cast, and it's

> > very key that the doc form the cast and hold the

> foot

> > totally exact

> > as it hardens, smoothing it in where it needs formed

> > to fit like a

> > glove. Like I said before, the bones in the foot

> have

> > to be placed

> > in a very specific, sequential manner to do any good

>

> > and held there

> > while casted. It's not a cast just anyone can

> apply

> > as perhaps a

> > broken-leg cast could be. There shouldn't be any

> > bruising. It

> > should be done slowly and methodically holding the

> > bones exactly as

> > it's done.

> > >

> > > The FAB (dbb) isn't going to stay on if his foot

> > isn't corrected to

> > begin with. The FAB is NOT to correct a foot but to

> > MAINTAIN

> > correction - big difference! Many docs seem to over

> > look that little

> > fact.

> > >

> > > Also, prior patients feet might look normal on the

> > out side but

> > that's no proof they will remain normal thorugh out

> > life. Have you

> > spoken to any adult patients or at least teen

> age/oder

> > kids whove

> > been treated here? What are theire results?

> > >

> > > The tenotomy is a very minor, one=time deal. My

> dh

> > stayed in with

> > our 2nd son while he had the tenotomy. It was one

> > little prick in

> > the heel and over with. Ten minutes or so start to

> > finish, numbing

> > the skin, pricking the tendon to release it, then

> > re-casting so the

> > foot would heal in the right position. Wiggling a

> > needs injecting a

> > burning agent sounds like hell to me compared to

> the

> > tenotomy. My

> > nephew got botox shots for a non-cf condition and he

>

> > says the pain

> > was unbearable.

> > >

> > > I still say you should seek alternative treatments

> > because it is

> > taking too long. Your kid should be done by now and

> > moved on to much

> > greener pastures in his treatment by this many weeks

> > in to the deal.

> > My 1st son's doctor really believed in what he was

> > doing too - and

> > had other " happy " patients, but he totally screwed

> up

> > my kid and I

> > didn't realize it until it was too late. It's not

> too

> > late for your

> > kid.

> > > Thanks to Everyone

> > >

> > >

> > > First off a great big thanks to so many caring and

> > concerned people

> > > for all of your responses, support and

> suggestions,

> > as well as

> > > direction to articles, etc.

> > >

> > > I feel I should clarify a few things so that you

> can

> > all have a

> > fuller

> > > understanding of the issues with Hayden's skin.

> It

> > is not my

> > > intention to bash on Dr. Alvarez because I feel

> that

> > she truly

> > > believes in what she is doing. And she has had

> > success, no doubt

> > > about it, as I have seen the older children that

> she

> > has treated

> > from

> > > infancy. They look fine and all of the parents

> seem

> > to think the

> > > Botox is a good idea and that it works. It is not

> > like Hayden has

> > not

> > > made progress, either. His feet are worlds

> > different from what they

> > > were at birth. I will post some photos so you can

> > see the

> > comparison.

> > > My biggest issues have been with her particular

> > bedside manner

> > > (blunt) and the fact that Hayden screams so much

> > when she is

> > examining

> > > him or when she was holding his foot in position

> for

> > the casting.

> > > When I took the casts off, there were often

> bruises

> > across the tops

> > of

> > > feet from where she had held his foot. This was

> > very disconcerting

> > > for me, but I was always told that this was

> normal.

> > Let me say that

> > > this did not offer me much reassurance. No one

> > likes to see their

> > > child marked in any way and while I understand

> that

> > the treatment is

> > > going to involve discomfort in some form along the

> > way, it honestly

> > > was starting to feel like ritual torture every

> week.

> > >

> > > The casts that Hayden had applied were fibreglass

> > with a batting-

> > type

> > > underlayer. I do not know what fibre it was, but

> it

> > appeared to be

> > > cotton. The final casts he had were put on with a

> > cotton flannel

> > > underlay which actually made his skin worse and

> was

> > stuck to his

> > skin

> > > in many places where it had been weeping. There

> has

> > been another

> > > little girl undergoing the same treatment as

> Hayden

> > with the same

> > > issues. Both babies were large at birth (Hayden 9

> > pounds, Baby

> > Girl 9

> > > pounds 13 ounces) which made them sweaty and

> overly

> > warm to start

> > > with. We had an unusually hot and humid summer

> this

> > year that did

> > not

> > > help. Having a cast on in that kind of heat must

> be

> > like wearing

> > > three pairs of pants under a snow suit in the

> > Bahamas! Knowing that

> > > the other child was enduring the same problems

> with

> > her skin made me

> > > think that this was not an allergic reaction. It

> > was suggested to

> > me

> > > that the reason his feet were taking longer to

> > correct was because

> > it

> > > was so hot - his feet were swollen and they could

> > not get a proper

> > > position each time. The second to last casts we

> had

> > on were done by

> > > another doctor because we were there on a

> different

> > day and I

> > noticed

> > > that he worked very hard to get a " heel " in the

> cast

> > and took his

> > > time. I did see a big difference after that cast

> > came off. That

> > > being said, the Club Foot Clinic at Children's is

> > very busy and I

> > know

> > > they are trying to see as many people as they can.

> > >

> > > I'm still feeling very uncertain about the boots

> and

> > bar. I think

> > > they are the Dennis Brown type. I kind of got a

> > " just tough it out "

> > > response when I expressed concerns about how well

> > they are fitting

> > him

> > > as they continue to slip on his feet or come

> > completely off. He's a

> > > real kicker and don't think for a moment he hasn't

> > realized he can

> > > free himself if he tries hard enough! I know that

> > some of the

> > > fussiness can come from them just not wanting to

> be

> > in them as they

> > > are restrictive. But when I see his foot has

> > slipped and he is

> > > cranky, I can't understand how that would be

> > comfortable and don't

> > > think that I should be having to replace/adjust

> them

> > all day long.

> > > How can they do their job if they don't fit

> > properly? I have tried

> > > the socks without seams and the socks with grips

> on

> > the bottom and

> > > neither seems better than the other. When I look

> at

> > Hayden's feet

> > in

> > > socks, the right foot seems to be be fine, but the

> > left does not

> > fill

> > > out the heel.

> > >

> > > I am interested in meeting with Dr. Pirani. If he

> > decides that

> > Hayden

> > > will need more casts, then I am okay with that but

> > it still brings

> > the

> > > skin issue along with it. And maybe he will have

> > other suggestions

> > to

> > > that end. I am not keen on the idea of a

> tenotomy,

> > but after

> > thinking

> > > about it a bit, I don't think that it is any more

> or

> > less invasive

> > > than the Botox treatment. The Botox consisted of

> > inserting the

> > needle

> > > and then moving it all around the tendon and

> > injecting it bit by

> > bit.

> > > I suppose if it would help bring the tendon down

> > just that little

> > bit

> > > more, then I would agree to it.

> > >

> > > At any rate, I am glad that I have this group of

> > people to rely on

> > and

> > > appreciate all of your kind words!

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

Link to comment
Share on other sites

,

You don't sound new age at all! I knew my son was coming early, but

no one would believe me. I kept on telling my family to make

alternate plans for Christmas, thinking he was going to come on

December 24th. He decided he was ready a month earlier than that,

and came on November 24th.

In fact, the day my water broke, I was insiting that we pack my

hospital bag. My husband thought I was nuts. We still had a full

month and a half left to go. I was just about to get up to go

upstairs to pack when my water broke. He didn't think I was too nuts

then!

I know my son's cries as well. I can also tell when he's going to be

hungry or in need of a nap by the way he plays or crawls. He has

cues. I think all babies do, and it is our gift as their mom's to

recognize them.

My husband is slowly learning what the different cries and cues are,

but it is definitely taking him longer!

I'm so glad you are taking your little one for a second opinion. I

bet your husband will come around once your son's feet are corrected

and even more beautiful than they already are.

Best wishes!

> > >

> > > , the problem with fiberglass casts is that

> > the doc cannot

> > form them around the foot as " custom " as a plaster

> > cast, and it's

> > very key that the doc form the cast and hold the

> foot

> > totally exact

> > as it hardens, smoothing it in where it needs formed

> > to fit like a

> > glove. Like I said before, the bones in the foot

> have

> > to be placed

> > in a very specific, sequential manner to do any good

>

> > and held there

> > while casted. It's not a cast just anyone can

> apply

> > as perhaps a

> > broken-leg cast could be. There shouldn't be any

> > bruising. It

> > should be done slowly and methodically holding the

> > bones exactly as

> > it's done.

> > >

> > > The FAB (dbb) isn't going to stay on if his foot

> > isn't corrected to

> > begin with. The FAB is NOT to correct a foot but to

> > MAINTAIN

> > correction - big difference! Many docs seem to over

> > look that little

> > fact.

> > >

> > > Also, prior patients feet might look normal on the

> > out side but

> > that's no proof they will remain normal thorugh out

> > life. Have you

> > spoken to any adult patients or at least teen

> age/oder

> > kids whove

> > been treated here? What are theire results?

> > >

> > > The tenotomy is a very minor, one=time deal. My

> dh

> > stayed in with

> > our 2nd son while he had the tenotomy. It was one

> > little prick in

> > the heel and over with. Ten minutes or so start to

> > finish, numbing

> > the skin, pricking the tendon to release it, then

> > re-casting so the

> > foot would heal in the right position. Wiggling a

> > needs injecting a

> > burning agent sounds like hell to me compared to

> the

> > tenotomy. My

> > nephew got botox shots for a non-cf condition and he

>

> > says the pain

> > was unbearable.

> > >

> > > I still say you should seek alternative treatments

> > because it is

> > taking too long. Your kid should be done by now and

> > moved on to much

> > greener pastures in his treatment by this many weeks

> > in to the deal.

> > My 1st son's doctor really believed in what he was

> > doing too - and

> > had other " happy " patients, but he totally screwed

> up

> > my kid and I

> > didn't realize it until it was too late. It's not

> too

> > late for your

> > kid.

> > > Thanks to Everyone

> > >

> > >

> > > First off a great big thanks to so many caring and

> > concerned people

> > > for all of your responses, support and

> suggestions,

> > as well as

> > > direction to articles, etc.

> > >

> > > I feel I should clarify a few things so that you

> can

> > all have a

> > fuller

> > > understanding of the issues with Hayden's skin.

> It

> > is not my

> > > intention to bash on Dr. Alvarez because I feel

> that

> > she truly

> > > believes in what she is doing. And she has had

> > success, no doubt

> > > about it, as I have seen the older children that

> she

> > has treated

> > from

> > > infancy. They look fine and all of the parents

> seem

> > to think the

> > > Botox is a good idea and that it works. It is not

> > like Hayden has

> > not

> > > made progress, either. His feet are worlds

> > different from what they

> > > were at birth. I will post some photos so you can

> > see the

> > comparison.

> > > My biggest issues have been with her particular

> > bedside manner

> > > (blunt) and the fact that Hayden screams so much

> > when she is

> > examining

> > > him or when she was holding his foot in position

> for

> > the casting.

> > > When I took the casts off, there were often

> bruises

> > across the tops

> > of

> > > feet from where she had held his foot. This was

> > very disconcerting

> > > for me, but I was always told that this was

> normal.

> > Let me say that

> > > this did not offer me much reassurance. No one

> > likes to see their

> > > child marked in any way and while I understand

> that

> > the treatment is

> > > going to involve discomfort in some form along the

> > way, it honestly

> > > was starting to feel like ritual torture every

> week.

> > >

> > > The casts that Hayden had applied were fibreglass

> > with a batting-

> > type

> > > underlayer. I do not know what fibre it was, but

> it

> > appeared to be

> > > cotton. The final casts he had were put on with a

> > cotton flannel

> > > underlay which actually made his skin worse and

> was

> > stuck to his

> > skin

> > > in many places where it had been weeping. There

> has

> > been another

> > > little girl undergoing the same treatment as

> Hayden

> > with the same

> > > issues. Both babies were large at birth (Hayden 9

> > pounds, Baby

> > Girl 9

> > > pounds 13 ounces) which made them sweaty and

> overly

> > warm to start

> > > with. We had an unusually hot and humid summer

> this

> > year that did

> > not

> > > help. Having a cast on in that kind of heat must

> be

> > like wearing

> > > three pairs of pants under a snow suit in the

> > Bahamas! Knowing that

> > > the other child was enduring the same problems

> with

> > her skin made me

> > > think that this was not an allergic reaction. It

> > was suggested to

> > me

> > > that the reason his feet were taking longer to

> > correct was because

> > it

> > > was so hot - his feet were swollen and they could

> > not get a proper

> > > position each time. The second to last casts we

> had

> > on were done by

> > > another doctor because we were there on a

> different

> > day and I

> > noticed

> > > that he worked very hard to get a " heel " in the

> cast

> > and took his

> > > time. I did see a big difference after that cast

> > came off. That

> > > being said, the Club Foot Clinic at Children's is

> > very busy and I

> > know

> > > they are trying to see as many people as they can.

> > >

> > > I'm still feeling very uncertain about the boots

> and

> > bar. I think

> > > they are the Dennis Brown type. I kind of got a

> > " just tough it out "

> > > response when I expressed concerns about how well

> > they are fitting

> > him

> > > as they continue to slip on his feet or come

> > completely off. He's a

> > > real kicker and don't think for a moment he hasn't

> > realized he can

> > > free himself if he tries hard enough! I know that

> > some of the

> > > fussiness can come from them just not wanting to

> be

> > in them as they

> > > are restrictive. But when I see his foot has

> > slipped and he is

> > > cranky, I can't understand how that would be

> > comfortable and don't

> > > think that I should be having to replace/adjust

> them

> > all day long.

> > > How can they do their job if they don't fit

> > properly? I have tried

> > > the socks without seams and the socks with grips

> on

> > the bottom and

> > > neither seems better than the other. When I look

> at

> > Hayden's feet

> > in

> > > socks, the right foot seems to be be fine, but the

> > left does not

> > fill

> > > out the heel.

> > >

> > > I am interested in meeting with Dr. Pirani. If he

> > decides that

> > Hayden

> > > will need more casts, then I am okay with that but

> > it still brings

> > the

> > > skin issue along with it. And maybe he will have

> > other suggestions

> > to

> > > that end. I am not keen on the idea of a

> tenotomy,

> > but after

> > thinking

> > > about it a bit, I don't think that it is any more

> or

> > less invasive

> > > than the Botox treatment. The Botox consisted of

> > inserting the

> > needle

> > > and then moving it all around the tendon and

> > injecting it bit by

> > bit.

> > > I suppose if it would help bring the tendon down

> > just that little

> > bit

> > > more, then I would agree to it.

> > >

> > > At any rate, I am glad that I have this group of

> > people to rely on

> > and

> > > appreciate all of your kind words!

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

Link to comment
Share on other sites

, I've missed the boards for a day or two but I'm so happy to

hear that you are going to see Dr. Pirani. Hayden (and your DH) will

thank you someday!

Good for you!

Daiga and Owen, 02/04/03

Unilateral LCF, FAB 14/7

> > >

> > > , the problem with fiberglass casts is that

> > the doc cannot

> > form them around the foot as " custom " as a plaster

> > cast, and it's

> > very key that the doc form the cast and hold the

> foot

> > totally exact

> > as it hardens, smoothing it in where it needs formed

> > to fit like a

> > glove. Like I said before, the bones in the foot

> have

> > to be placed

> > in a very specific, sequential manner to do any good

>

> > and held there

> > while casted. It's not a cast just anyone can

> apply

> > as perhaps a

> > broken-leg cast could be. There shouldn't be any

> > bruising. It

> > should be done slowly and methodically holding the

> > bones exactly as

> > it's done.

> > >

> > > The FAB (dbb) isn't going to stay on if his foot

> > isn't corrected to

> > begin with. The FAB is NOT to correct a foot but to

> > MAINTAIN

> > correction - big difference! Many docs seem to over

> > look that little

> > fact.

> > >

> > > Also, prior patients feet might look normal on the

> > out side but

> > that's no proof they will remain normal thorugh out

> > life. Have you

> > spoken to any adult patients or at least teen

> age/oder

> > kids whove

> > been treated here? What are theire results?

> > >

> > > The tenotomy is a very minor, one=time deal. My

> dh

> > stayed in with

> > our 2nd son while he had the tenotomy. It was one

> > little prick in

> > the heel and over with. Ten minutes or so start to

> > finish, numbing

> > the skin, pricking the tendon to release it, then

> > re-casting so the

> > foot would heal in the right position. Wiggling a

> > needs injecting a

> > burning agent sounds like hell to me compared to

> the

> > tenotomy. My

> > nephew got botox shots for a non-cf condition and he

>

> > says the pain

> > was unbearable.

> > >

> > > I still say you should seek alternative treatments

> > because it is

> > taking too long. Your kid should be done by now and

> > moved on to much

> > greener pastures in his treatment by this many weeks

> > in to the deal.

> > My 1st son's doctor really believed in what he was

> > doing too - and

> > had other " happy " patients, but he totally screwed

> up

> > my kid and I

> > didn't realize it until it was too late. It's not

> too

> > late for your

> > kid.

> > > Thanks to Everyone

> > >

> > >

> > > First off a great big thanks to so many caring and

> > concerned people

> > > for all of your responses, support and

> suggestions,

> > as well as

> > > direction to articles, etc.

> > >

> > > I feel I should clarify a few things so that you

> can

> > all have a

> > fuller

> > > understanding of the issues with Hayden's skin.

> It

> > is not my

> > > intention to bash on Dr. Alvarez because I feel

> that

> > she truly

> > > believes in what she is doing. And she has had

> > success, no doubt

> > > about it, as I have seen the older children that

> she

> > has treated

> > from

> > > infancy. They look fine and all of the parents

> seem

> > to think the

> > > Botox is a good idea and that it works. It is not

> > like Hayden has

> > not

> > > made progress, either. His feet are worlds

> > different from what they

> > > were at birth. I will post some photos so you can

> > see the

> > comparison.

> > > My biggest issues have been with her particular

> > bedside manner

> > > (blunt) and the fact that Hayden screams so much

> > when she is

> > examining

> > > him or when she was holding his foot in position

> for

> > the casting.

> > > When I took the casts off, there were often

> bruises

> > across the tops

> > of

> > > feet from where she had held his foot. This was

> > very disconcerting

> > > for me, but I was always told that this was

> normal.

> > Let me say that

> > > this did not offer me much reassurance. No one

> > likes to see their

> > > child marked in any way and while I understand

> that

> > the treatment is

> > > going to involve discomfort in some form along the

> > way, it honestly

> > > was starting to feel like ritual torture every

> week.

> > >

> > > The casts that Hayden had applied were fibreglass

> > with a batting-

> > type

> > > underlayer. I do not know what fibre it was, but

> it

> > appeared to be

> > > cotton. The final casts he had were put on with a

> > cotton flannel

> > > underlay which actually made his skin worse and

> was

> > stuck to his

> > skin

> > > in many places where it had been weeping. There

> has

> > been another

> > > little girl undergoing the same treatment as

> Hayden

> > with the same

> > > issues. Both babies were large at birth (Hayden 9

> > pounds, Baby

> > Girl 9

> > > pounds 13 ounces) which made them sweaty and

> overly

> > warm to start

> > > with. We had an unusually hot and humid summer

> this

> > year that did

> > not

> > > help. Having a cast on in that kind of heat must

> be

> > like wearing

> > > three pairs of pants under a snow suit in the

> > Bahamas! Knowing that

> > > the other child was enduring the same problems

> with

> > her skin made me

> > > think that this was not an allergic reaction. It

> > was suggested to

> > me

> > > that the reason his feet were taking longer to

> > correct was because

> > it

> > > was so hot - his feet were swollen and they could

> > not get a proper

> > > position each time. The second to last casts we

> had

> > on were done by

> > > another doctor because we were there on a

> different

> > day and I

> > noticed

> > > that he worked very hard to get a " heel " in the

> cast

> > and took his

> > > time. I did see a big difference after that cast

> > came off. That

> > > being said, the Club Foot Clinic at Children's is

> > very busy and I

> > know

> > > they are trying to see as many people as they can.

> > >

> > > I'm still feeling very uncertain about the boots

> and

> > bar. I think

> > > they are the Dennis Brown type. I kind of got a

> > " just tough it out "

> > > response when I expressed concerns about how well

> > they are fitting

> > him

> > > as they continue to slip on his feet or come

> > completely off. He's a

> > > real kicker and don't think for a moment he hasn't

> > realized he can

> > > free himself if he tries hard enough! I know that

> > some of the

> > > fussiness can come from them just not wanting to

> be

> > in them as they

> > > are restrictive. But when I see his foot has

> > slipped and he is

> > > cranky, I can't understand how that would be

> > comfortable and don't

> > > think that I should be having to replace/adjust

> them

> > all day long.

> > > How can they do their job if they don't fit

> > properly? I have tried

> > > the socks without seams and the socks with grips

> on

> > the bottom and

> > > neither seems better than the other. When I look

> at

> > Hayden's feet

> > in

> > > socks, the right foot seems to be be fine, but the

> > left does not

> > fill

> > > out the heel.

> > >

> > > I am interested in meeting with Dr. Pirani. If he

> > decides that

> > Hayden

> > > will need more casts, then I am okay with that but

> > it still brings

> > the

> > > skin issue along with it. And maybe he will have

> > other suggestions

> > to

> > > that end. I am not keen on the idea of a

> tenotomy,

> > but after

> > thinking

> > > about it a bit, I don't think that it is any more

> or

> > less invasive

> > > than the Botox treatment. The Botox consisted of

> > inserting the

> > needle

> > > and then moving it all around the tendon and

> > injecting it bit by

> > bit.

> > > I suppose if it would help bring the tendon down

> > just that little

> > bit

> > > more, then I would agree to it.

> > >

> > > At any rate, I am glad that I have this group of

> > people to rely on

> > and

> > > appreciate all of your kind words!

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

Link to comment
Share on other sites

, I've missed the boards for a day or two but I'm so happy to

hear that you are going to see Dr. Pirani. Hayden (and your DH) will

thank you someday!

Good for you!

Daiga and Owen, 02/04/03

Unilateral LCF, FAB 14/7

> > >

> > > , the problem with fiberglass casts is that

> > the doc cannot

> > form them around the foot as " custom " as a plaster

> > cast, and it's

> > very key that the doc form the cast and hold the

> foot

> > totally exact

> > as it hardens, smoothing it in where it needs formed

> > to fit like a

> > glove. Like I said before, the bones in the foot

> have

> > to be placed

> > in a very specific, sequential manner to do any good

>

> > and held there

> > while casted. It's not a cast just anyone can

> apply

> > as perhaps a

> > broken-leg cast could be. There shouldn't be any

> > bruising. It

> > should be done slowly and methodically holding the

> > bones exactly as

> > it's done.

> > >

> > > The FAB (dbb) isn't going to stay on if his foot

> > isn't corrected to

> > begin with. The FAB is NOT to correct a foot but to

> > MAINTAIN

> > correction - big difference! Many docs seem to over

> > look that little

> > fact.

> > >

> > > Also, prior patients feet might look normal on the

> > out side but

> > that's no proof they will remain normal thorugh out

> > life. Have you

> > spoken to any adult patients or at least teen

> age/oder

> > kids whove

> > been treated here? What are theire results?

> > >

> > > The tenotomy is a very minor, one=time deal. My

> dh

> > stayed in with

> > our 2nd son while he had the tenotomy. It was one

> > little prick in

> > the heel and over with. Ten minutes or so start to

> > finish, numbing

> > the skin, pricking the tendon to release it, then

> > re-casting so the

> > foot would heal in the right position. Wiggling a

> > needs injecting a

> > burning agent sounds like hell to me compared to

> the

> > tenotomy. My

> > nephew got botox shots for a non-cf condition and he

>

> > says the pain

> > was unbearable.

> > >

> > > I still say you should seek alternative treatments

> > because it is

> > taking too long. Your kid should be done by now and

> > moved on to much

> > greener pastures in his treatment by this many weeks

> > in to the deal.

> > My 1st son's doctor really believed in what he was

> > doing too - and

> > had other " happy " patients, but he totally screwed

> up

> > my kid and I

> > didn't realize it until it was too late. It's not

> too

> > late for your

> > kid.

> > > Thanks to Everyone

> > >

> > >

> > > First off a great big thanks to so many caring and

> > concerned people

> > > for all of your responses, support and

> suggestions,

> > as well as

> > > direction to articles, etc.

> > >

> > > I feel I should clarify a few things so that you

> can

> > all have a

> > fuller

> > > understanding of the issues with Hayden's skin.

> It

> > is not my

> > > intention to bash on Dr. Alvarez because I feel

> that

> > she truly

> > > believes in what she is doing. And she has had

> > success, no doubt

> > > about it, as I have seen the older children that

> she

> > has treated

> > from

> > > infancy. They look fine and all of the parents

> seem

> > to think the

> > > Botox is a good idea and that it works. It is not

> > like Hayden has

> > not

> > > made progress, either. His feet are worlds

> > different from what they

> > > were at birth. I will post some photos so you can

> > see the

> > comparison.

> > > My biggest issues have been with her particular

> > bedside manner

> > > (blunt) and the fact that Hayden screams so much

> > when she is

> > examining

> > > him or when she was holding his foot in position

> for

> > the casting.

> > > When I took the casts off, there were often

> bruises

> > across the tops

> > of

> > > feet from where she had held his foot. This was

> > very disconcerting

> > > for me, but I was always told that this was

> normal.

> > Let me say that

> > > this did not offer me much reassurance. No one

> > likes to see their

> > > child marked in any way and while I understand

> that

> > the treatment is

> > > going to involve discomfort in some form along the

> > way, it honestly

> > > was starting to feel like ritual torture every

> week.

> > >

> > > The casts that Hayden had applied were fibreglass

> > with a batting-

> > type

> > > underlayer. I do not know what fibre it was, but

> it

> > appeared to be

> > > cotton. The final casts he had were put on with a

> > cotton flannel

> > > underlay which actually made his skin worse and

> was

> > stuck to his

> > skin

> > > in many places where it had been weeping. There

> has

> > been another

> > > little girl undergoing the same treatment as

> Hayden

> > with the same

> > > issues. Both babies were large at birth (Hayden 9

> > pounds, Baby

> > Girl 9

> > > pounds 13 ounces) which made them sweaty and

> overly

> > warm to start

> > > with. We had an unusually hot and humid summer

> this

> > year that did

> > not

> > > help. Having a cast on in that kind of heat must

> be

> > like wearing

> > > three pairs of pants under a snow suit in the

> > Bahamas! Knowing that

> > > the other child was enduring the same problems

> with

> > her skin made me

> > > think that this was not an allergic reaction. It

> > was suggested to

> > me

> > > that the reason his feet were taking longer to

> > correct was because

> > it

> > > was so hot - his feet were swollen and they could

> > not get a proper

> > > position each time. The second to last casts we

> had

> > on were done by

> > > another doctor because we were there on a

> different

> > day and I

> > noticed

> > > that he worked very hard to get a " heel " in the

> cast

> > and took his

> > > time. I did see a big difference after that cast

> > came off. That

> > > being said, the Club Foot Clinic at Children's is

> > very busy and I

> > know

> > > they are trying to see as many people as they can.

> > >

> > > I'm still feeling very uncertain about the boots

> and

> > bar. I think

> > > they are the Dennis Brown type. I kind of got a

> > " just tough it out "

> > > response when I expressed concerns about how well

> > they are fitting

> > him

> > > as they continue to slip on his feet or come

> > completely off. He's a

> > > real kicker and don't think for a moment he hasn't

> > realized he can

> > > free himself if he tries hard enough! I know that

> > some of the

> > > fussiness can come from them just not wanting to

> be

> > in them as they

> > > are restrictive. But when I see his foot has

> > slipped and he is

> > > cranky, I can't understand how that would be

> > comfortable and don't

> > > think that I should be having to replace/adjust

> them

> > all day long.

> > > How can they do their job if they don't fit

> > properly? I have tried

> > > the socks without seams and the socks with grips

> on

> > the bottom and

> > > neither seems better than the other. When I look

> at

> > Hayden's feet

> > in

> > > socks, the right foot seems to be be fine, but the

> > left does not

> > fill

> > > out the heel.

> > >

> > > I am interested in meeting with Dr. Pirani. If he

> > decides that

> > Hayden

> > > will need more casts, then I am okay with that but

> > it still brings

> > the

> > > skin issue along with it. And maybe he will have

> > other suggestions

> > to

> > > that end. I am not keen on the idea of a

> tenotomy,

> > but after

> > thinking

> > > about it a bit, I don't think that it is any more

> or

> > less invasive

> > > than the Botox treatment. The Botox consisted of

> > inserting the

> > needle

> > > and then moving it all around the tendon and

> > injecting it bit by

> > bit.

> > > I suppose if it would help bring the tendon down

> > just that little

> > bit

> > > more, then I would agree to it.

> > >

> > > At any rate, I am glad that I have this group of

> > people to rely on

> > and

> > > appreciate all of your kind words!

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 1 month later...

Good luck, sun. You aren't alone. We're here. Robynnskynsun2003 wrote: I've been lurking on the list for sometime...while starting the process headed to wls. I have not been posting but I definitely read each and every one of your posts.Today posts from Francisco and Katchick have really been so helpfull and informative. I have tried to come to terms with so many issues reguarding my weight, wls and what changes would hit my life....the divorce rate is so high after wls...and I love my husband so much... I don't want to loose him in the process of finding me....i dont think i would change...but...who knows. We have a wonderful intimate life...would the weight loss change things somehow???I too am a survivor of childhood

sexual abuse....from what is suspected to be about age 3 (everything before age 10 is a total blank so it's more a guess based on other factors) until I left home at 17.. then a really young marriage (18-20) to a serious abuser...I know I'm just sort of rambling in this post....but it has meant so much to me to know...I'm not isolated in my feelings in these things....nor in the expreiences in my life that have led me to this point.Anyway...within all this rambling is a HUGE Thank You to everyone for their postings and sharing of such personal issues at times. You have helped me to feel like I am not so alone in all this.BY the way..I am just starting the process...my PCP started suggesting the surgery a year and a half ago and I resisted the idea of it for a long time....Have just finally come to terms with it and have had my first psyc evaluation...going to my first group meeting re: gastric bypass in

the morning at Santa Clara...we'll see how it goes from there.sun

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Sun I believe it's hard with all you've gone through, and I hope you have reach out for help through psychologist and doctors to help relieve some of the pain that life has brought you. After WLS once you are post op it does make you feel better about yourself, and sometimes stand up for yourself when you might not of when you were heavy, have different fears and sometimes you get closer to people and sometimes people go away. I hope your marriage is strong enough and things will be fine with you having WLS, but it you're marriage isn't that strong it could break it. I wasn't sure with my husband and his depression, and neither were the doctors, but with all the help we've gotten our marriage is doing good again and our love has just gotten stronger, the magic has come back like when we first got married. It is so nice. I hope you read, post and decide to do the WLS for you, and don't get scared because of the divorce rate. Those

marriages might not of made it even if the person didn't have the WLS, but it does bring up issues with spouses sometimes that you wouldn't think would be said. If your marriage is strong you will be able to work through them. Take care of yourself. Donnaskynsun2003 wrote: I've been lurking on the list for sometime...while starting the process headed to wls. I have not been posting but I definitely read each and every one of your posts.Today posts from Francisco and Katchick have really been so helpfull and informative. I have tried to come to terms with so many issues reguarding my weight, wls and what changes would hit my life....the divorce rate is so high after wls...and I love my husband so much... I don't want to loose him in the process of

finding me....i dont think i would change...but...who knows. We have a wonderful intimate life...would the weight loss change things somehow???I too am a survivor of childhood sexual abuse....from what is suspected to be about age 3 (everything before age 10 is a total blank so it's more a guess based on other factors) until I left home at 17.. then a really young marriage (18-20) to a serious abuser...I know I'm just sort of rambling in this post....but it has meant so much to me to know...I'm not isolated in my feelings in these things....nor in the expreiences in my life that have led me to this point.Anyway...within all this rambling is a HUGE Thank You to everyone for their postings and sharing of such personal issues at times. You have helped me to feel like I am not so alone in all this.BY the way..I am just starting the process...my PCP started suggesting the surgery a year and a half

ago and I resisted the idea of it for a long time....Have just finally come to terms with it and have had my first psyc evaluation...going to my first group meeting re: gastric bypass in the morning at Santa Clara...we'll see how it goes from there.sun Donna JordonDSJordon@...

Yahoo! Personals Let fate take it's course directly to your email. See who's waiting for you Yahoo! Personals

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Sun I believe it's hard with all you've gone through, and I hope you have reach out for help through psychologist and doctors to help relieve some of the pain that life has brought you. After WLS once you are post op it does make you feel better about yourself, and sometimes stand up for yourself when you might not of when you were heavy, have different fears and sometimes you get closer to people and sometimes people go away. I hope your marriage is strong enough and things will be fine with you having WLS, but it you're marriage isn't that strong it could break it. I wasn't sure with my husband and his depression, and neither were the doctors, but with all the help we've gotten our marriage is doing good again and our love has just gotten stronger, the magic has come back like when we first got married. It is so nice. I hope you read, post and decide to do the WLS for you, and don't get scared because of the divorce rate. Those

marriages might not of made it even if the person didn't have the WLS, but it does bring up issues with spouses sometimes that you wouldn't think would be said. If your marriage is strong you will be able to work through them. Take care of yourself. Donnaskynsun2003 wrote: I've been lurking on the list for sometime...while starting the process headed to wls. I have not been posting but I definitely read each and every one of your posts.Today posts from Francisco and Katchick have really been so helpfull and informative. I have tried to come to terms with so many issues reguarding my weight, wls and what changes would hit my life....the divorce rate is so high after wls...and I love my husband so much... I don't want to loose him in the process of

finding me....i dont think i would change...but...who knows. We have a wonderful intimate life...would the weight loss change things somehow???I too am a survivor of childhood sexual abuse....from what is suspected to be about age 3 (everything before age 10 is a total blank so it's more a guess based on other factors) until I left home at 17.. then a really young marriage (18-20) to a serious abuser...I know I'm just sort of rambling in this post....but it has meant so much to me to know...I'm not isolated in my feelings in these things....nor in the expreiences in my life that have led me to this point.Anyway...within all this rambling is a HUGE Thank You to everyone for their postings and sharing of such personal issues at times. You have helped me to feel like I am not so alone in all this.BY the way..I am just starting the process...my PCP started suggesting the surgery a year and a half

ago and I resisted the idea of it for a long time....Have just finally come to terms with it and have had my first psyc evaluation...going to my first group meeting re: gastric bypass in the morning at Santa Clara...we'll see how it goes from there.sun Donna JordonDSJordon@...

Yahoo! Personals Let fate take it's course directly to your email. See who's waiting for you Yahoo! Personals

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Donna,

I have not spent a lot of time in therapy/counseling with professionals, but have spent most of my adult life working on self-healing....Most recently I used a book/program called "The Artist's Way" recomended by my Kaiser NP...The book was originally designed for artists with artists block but the exersizes and such are easily adapted to other situations...in my case my history of obesity and abuse.

I'm 41 now...most of my younger years I let people overstep my boundrys a lot and seldom stood up for myself in any way. In the past 10 years or so I have gotten quite good at drawing the figurative line in the sand with others. My husband of the past 6 years in a healthy, whole individual and is the Great Love of My Life. Our relationship has always been very strongand we have a fantastic relationship all the waya round.....truely I do not think the weight loss will change our relationship, other than to possibly bond us together even more...Ths far, that is how we have always dealt with personal crisis'...we hold fast to one another, rather than turniong on one another, which I see way too often in other relationships. Our relationship, in itself, has served as a huge medium for my healing old wounds and scars...a good example of what I mean...and I dont share this one easily....

Most of my adult life I had this fantasy image of myself as a VERY young girl (roughly age 3)...always the fantasy was of me that age being taken(in the bibical sense) by an adult male....I told no one about this mental image because as a survivor of sexual abuse, I view a pedophile as the absolute worst human ...and to admit that my own fantasy image involved me as such a young child....I was terrified it would somehow look like pedophillia....so I lived with it and told no one....that is until my husband came into my world....there was nothing that we couldn't talk about or share. When we decided to marry, I confessed to him about this mental image I had of myself as 3 year old...His reaction...his love for me didnt change one iota...but he did want me to understand that for him, he saw absolutely NO attraction to the idea if sleeping with a child, he wanted a full-grown woman in his bed....several years into our marriage, one day it was like a major ehiany for me that that mental image I had always had of myself as such a young child had changed...the 3 year old didnt exist any longer, nor could i even fathom such an idea...i relaized the child I viewed was more life a 16-17 year old girl in my fantasy life....and the 3 year old had..."grown up" It was only after doing some serious research that I discovered wht was happening...that my "inner child" if you will...was finally in a place ...secure enough...safe enough...that she was being allowed to grow up. For many years I suspected the image was locked in at that age because that might have been when my actual abuse began (I have the actual memories of it from age 10 on....but have 0 memories from before age 10)

Bottom line...I will be having wls...I have hidden behind the weght all of my adult life for emotional reasons...now the weight has become a major health issue for me (Untreated Sleep Apnea, where i manage 1 -2 hours of sleep sitting up in a chair nightly; pre-diabeties, borderline hypertension and a lower back problem that has left me unable to do more than walk15-20 feet without it locking up and leaving me in excrutiating pain) We just moved our 21 yr old son back into our home to help with the 4 year old because I am unable to function any longer...am I going to accept existing like this, absolutely NOT... I am ready to start living my life, rather than just existing in it. Monday I had my first psyc evaluation, this morning I had my meeting with the nutritionalist...now I'm stuck waiting, but when I get my orientation Notice....I will be ready :)

..

[Mike & Dawn ]

From: gastric-bypass-support-kaiser-patients [mailto:gastric-bypass-support-kaiser-patients ]On Behalf Of Donna JordonSent: Wednesday, December 07, 2005 10:30 AMTo: gastric-bypass-support-kaiser-patients Subject: Re: Thanks to Everyone

Sun

I believe it's hard with all you've gone through, and I hope you have reach out for help through psychologist and doctors to help relieve some of the pain that life has brought you. After WLS once you are post op it does make you feel better about yourself, and sometimes stand up for yourself when you might not of when you were heavy, have different fears and sometimes you get closer to people and sometimes people go away. I hope your marriage is strong enough and things will be fine with you having WLS, but it you're marriage isn't that strong it could break it. I wasn't sure with my husband and his depression, and neither were the doctors, but with all the help we've gotten our marriage is doing good again and our love has just gotten stronger, the magic has come back like when we first got married. It is so nice. I hope you read, post and decide to do the WLS for you, and don't get scared because of the divorce rate. Those marriages might not of made it even if the person didn't have the WLS, but it does bring up issues with spouses sometimes that you wouldn't think would be said. If your marriage is strong you will be able to work through them. Take care of yourself. Donnaskynsun2003 wrote:

I've been lurking on the list for sometime...while starting the process headed to wls. I have not been posting but I definitely read each and every one of your posts.Today posts from Francisco and Katchick have really been so helpfull and informative. I have tried to come to terms with so many issues reguarding my weight, wls and what changes would hit my life....the divorce rate is so high after wls...and I love my husband so much... I don't want to loose him in the process of finding me....i dont think i would change...but...who knows. We have a wonderful intimate life...would the weight loss change things somehow???I too am a survivor of childhood sexual abuse....from what is suspected to be about age 3 (everything before age 10 is a total blank so it's more a guess based on other factors) until I left home at 17.. then a really young marriage (18-20) to a serious abuser...I know I'm just sort of rambling in this post....but it has meant so much to me to know...I'm not isolated in my feelings in these things....nor in the expreiences in my life that have led me to this point.Anyway...within all this rambling is a HUGE Thank You to everyone for their postings and sharing of such personal issues at times. You have helped me to feel like I am not so alone in all this.BY the way..I am just starting the process...my PCP started suggesting the surgery a year and a half ago and I resisted the idea of it for a long time....Have just finally come to terms with it and have had my first psyc evaluation...going to my first group meeting re: gastric bypass in the morning at Santa Clara...we'll see how it goes from there.sun

Donna JordonDSJordon@...

Yahoo! PersonalsLet fate take it's course directly to your email.See who's waiting for you Yahoo! Personals

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Donna,

I have not spent a lot of time in therapy/counseling with professionals, but have spent most of my adult life working on self-healing....Most recently I used a book/program called "The Artist's Way" recomended by my Kaiser NP...The book was originally designed for artists with artists block but the exersizes and such are easily adapted to other situations...in my case my history of obesity and abuse.

I'm 41 now...most of my younger years I let people overstep my boundrys a lot and seldom stood up for myself in any way. In the past 10 years or so I have gotten quite good at drawing the figurative line in the sand with others. My husband of the past 6 years in a healthy, whole individual and is the Great Love of My Life. Our relationship has always been very strongand we have a fantastic relationship all the waya round.....truely I do not think the weight loss will change our relationship, other than to possibly bond us together even more...Ths far, that is how we have always dealt with personal crisis'...we hold fast to one another, rather than turniong on one another, which I see way too often in other relationships. Our relationship, in itself, has served as a huge medium for my healing old wounds and scars...a good example of what I mean...and I dont share this one easily....

Most of my adult life I had this fantasy image of myself as a VERY young girl (roughly age 3)...always the fantasy was of me that age being taken(in the bibical sense) by an adult male....I told no one about this mental image because as a survivor of sexual abuse, I view a pedophile as the absolute worst human ...and to admit that my own fantasy image involved me as such a young child....I was terrified it would somehow look like pedophillia....so I lived with it and told no one....that is until my husband came into my world....there was nothing that we couldn't talk about or share. When we decided to marry, I confessed to him about this mental image I had of myself as 3 year old...His reaction...his love for me didnt change one iota...but he did want me to understand that for him, he saw absolutely NO attraction to the idea if sleeping with a child, he wanted a full-grown woman in his bed....several years into our marriage, one day it was like a major ehiany for me that that mental image I had always had of myself as such a young child had changed...the 3 year old didnt exist any longer, nor could i even fathom such an idea...i relaized the child I viewed was more life a 16-17 year old girl in my fantasy life....and the 3 year old had..."grown up" It was only after doing some serious research that I discovered wht was happening...that my "inner child" if you will...was finally in a place ...secure enough...safe enough...that she was being allowed to grow up. For many years I suspected the image was locked in at that age because that might have been when my actual abuse began (I have the actual memories of it from age 10 on....but have 0 memories from before age 10)

Bottom line...I will be having wls...I have hidden behind the weght all of my adult life for emotional reasons...now the weight has become a major health issue for me (Untreated Sleep Apnea, where i manage 1 -2 hours of sleep sitting up in a chair nightly; pre-diabeties, borderline hypertension and a lower back problem that has left me unable to do more than walk15-20 feet without it locking up and leaving me in excrutiating pain) We just moved our 21 yr old son back into our home to help with the 4 year old because I am unable to function any longer...am I going to accept existing like this, absolutely NOT... I am ready to start living my life, rather than just existing in it. Monday I had my first psyc evaluation, this morning I had my meeting with the nutritionalist...now I'm stuck waiting, but when I get my orientation Notice....I will be ready :)

..

[Mike & Dawn ]

From: gastric-bypass-support-kaiser-patients [mailto:gastric-bypass-support-kaiser-patients ]On Behalf Of Donna JordonSent: Wednesday, December 07, 2005 10:30 AMTo: gastric-bypass-support-kaiser-patients Subject: Re: Thanks to Everyone

Sun

I believe it's hard with all you've gone through, and I hope you have reach out for help through psychologist and doctors to help relieve some of the pain that life has brought you. After WLS once you are post op it does make you feel better about yourself, and sometimes stand up for yourself when you might not of when you were heavy, have different fears and sometimes you get closer to people and sometimes people go away. I hope your marriage is strong enough and things will be fine with you having WLS, but it you're marriage isn't that strong it could break it. I wasn't sure with my husband and his depression, and neither were the doctors, but with all the help we've gotten our marriage is doing good again and our love has just gotten stronger, the magic has come back like when we first got married. It is so nice. I hope you read, post and decide to do the WLS for you, and don't get scared because of the divorce rate. Those marriages might not of made it even if the person didn't have the WLS, but it does bring up issues with spouses sometimes that you wouldn't think would be said. If your marriage is strong you will be able to work through them. Take care of yourself. Donnaskynsun2003 wrote:

I've been lurking on the list for sometime...while starting the process headed to wls. I have not been posting but I definitely read each and every one of your posts.Today posts from Francisco and Katchick have really been so helpfull and informative. I have tried to come to terms with so many issues reguarding my weight, wls and what changes would hit my life....the divorce rate is so high after wls...and I love my husband so much... I don't want to loose him in the process of finding me....i dont think i would change...but...who knows. We have a wonderful intimate life...would the weight loss change things somehow???I too am a survivor of childhood sexual abuse....from what is suspected to be about age 3 (everything before age 10 is a total blank so it's more a guess based on other factors) until I left home at 17.. then a really young marriage (18-20) to a serious abuser...I know I'm just sort of rambling in this post....but it has meant so much to me to know...I'm not isolated in my feelings in these things....nor in the expreiences in my life that have led me to this point.Anyway...within all this rambling is a HUGE Thank You to everyone for their postings and sharing of such personal issues at times. You have helped me to feel like I am not so alone in all this.BY the way..I am just starting the process...my PCP started suggesting the surgery a year and a half ago and I resisted the idea of it for a long time....Have just finally come to terms with it and have had my first psyc evaluation...going to my first group meeting re: gastric bypass in the morning at Santa Clara...we'll see how it goes from there.sun

Donna JordonDSJordon@...

Yahoo! PersonalsLet fate take it's course directly to your email.See who's waiting for you Yahoo! Personals

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Sun I am so proud of you, for deciding the WLS which will help you in all those health problems. I had so many health problems also, now every thing keeps getting better and better. I'm sorry to hear what you had to go through as a child, but I am so happy you are married to such a supportive husband and I wish you well on this journey. I will keep you in my prayers and thoughts. This group is great and there's lots of people here for you. You take care. DonnaMike & Dawn wrote: Donna, I have not spent a lot of time in therapy/counseling with professionals, but have spent most of my adult life working on self-healing....Most recently I used a book/program called "The Artist's Way" recomended by my Kaiser NP...The book was originally designed for artists with artists block but the exersizes and such are easily adapted to other situations...in my case my history of obesity and abuse. I'm 41 now...most of my younger years I let people overstep my boundrys a lot and seldom stood up for myself in any way. In the past 10 years or so I have gotten quite good at drawing the figurative line in the sand with others. My husband of the past 6 years in a healthy, whole individual and is the Great Love

of My Life. Our relationship has always been very strongand we have a fantastic relationship all the waya round.....truely I do not think the weight loss will change our relationship, other than to possibly bond us together even more...Ths far, that is how we have always dealt with personal crisis'...we hold fast to one another, rather than turniong on one another, which I see way too often in other relationships. Our relationship, in itself, has served as a huge medium for my healing old wounds and scars...a good example of what I mean...and I dont share this one easily.... Most of my adult life I had this fantasy image of myself as a VERY young girl (roughly age 3)...always the fantasy was of me that age being taken(in the bibical sense) by an adult male....I told

no one about this mental image because as a survivor of sexual abuse, I view a pedophile as the absolute worst human ...and to admit that my own fantasy image involved me as such a young child....I was terrified it would somehow look like pedophillia....so I lived with it and told no one....that is until my husband came into my world....there was nothing that we couldn't talk about or share. When we decided to marry, I confessed to him about this mental image I had of myself as 3 year old...His reaction...his love for me didnt change one iota...but he did want me to understand that for him, he saw absolutely NO attraction to the idea if sleeping with a child, he wanted a full-grown woman in his bed....several years into our marriage, one day it was like a major ehiany for me that that mental image I had always had of myself as such a young child had changed...the 3 year old didnt exist any longer, nor could i even fathom such an idea...i relaized the child I

viewed was more life a 16-17 year old girl in my fantasy life....and the 3 year old had..."grown up" It was only after doing some serious research that I discovered wht was happening...that my "inner child" if you will...was finally in a place ...secure enough...safe enough...that she was being allowed to grow up. For many years I suspected the image was locked in at that age because that might have been when my actual abuse began (I have the actual memories of it from age 10 on....but have 0 memories from before age 10) Bottom line...I will be having wls...I have hidden behind the weght all of my adult life for emotional reasons...now the weight has become a major health issue for me

(Untreated Sleep Apnea, where i manage 1 -2 hours of sleep sitting up in a chair nightly; pre-diabeties, borderline hypertension and a lower back problem that has left me unable to do more than walk15-20 feet without it locking up and leaving me in excrutiating pain) We just moved our 21 yr old son back into our home to help with the 4 year old because I am unable to function any longer...am I going to accept existing like this, absolutely NOT... I am ready to start living my life, rather than just existing in it. Monday I had my first psyc evaluation, this morning I had my meeting with the nutritionalist...now I'm stuck waiting, but when I get my orientation Notice....I will be ready :) . [Mike & Dawn ] From: gastric-bypass-support-kaiser-patients [mailto:gastric-bypass-support-kaiser-patients ]On Behalf Of Donna JordonSent: Wednesday, December 07, 2005 10:30 AMTo: gastric-bypass-support-kaiser-patients Subject: Re: Thanks to Everyone Sun I believe it's hard with all you've gone through, and I hope you have reach out for help through psychologist and doctors to help relieve some of the pain that

life has brought you. After WLS once you are post op it does make you feel better about yourself, and sometimes stand up for yourself when you might not of when you were heavy, have different fears and sometimes you get closer to people and sometimes people go away. I hope your marriage is strong enough and things will be fine with you having WLS, but it you're marriage isn't that strong it could break it. I wasn't sure with my husband and his depression, and neither were the doctors, but with all the help we've gotten our marriage is doing good again and our love has just gotten stronger, the magic has come back like when we first got married. It is so nice. I hope you read, post and decide to do the WLS for you, and don't get scared because of the divorce rate. Those marriages might not of made it even if the person didn't have the WLS, but it does bring up issues with spouses sometimes that you wouldn't think would be said. If your

marriage is strong you will be able to work through them. Take care of yourself. Donnaskynsun2003 wrote: I've been lurking on the list for sometime...while starting the process headed to wls. I have not been posting but I definitely read each and every one of your posts.Today posts from Francisco and Katchick have really been so helpfull and informative. I have tried to come to terms with so many issues reguarding my weight, wls and what changes would hit my life....the divorce rate is so high after wls...and I love my husband so much... I don't want to loose him in the process of finding me....i dont think i would change...but...who knows. We have a wonderful intimate life...would the weight loss change things somehow???I too am a

survivor of childhood sexual abuse....from what is suspected to be about age 3 (everything before age 10 is a total blank so it's more a guess based on other factors) until I left home at 17.. then a really young marriage (18-20) to a serious abuser...I know I'm just sort of rambling in this post....but it has meant so much to me to know...I'm not isolated in my feelings in these things....nor in the expreiences in my life that have led me to this point.Anyway...within all this rambling is a HUGE Thank You to everyone for their postings and sharing of such personal issues at times. You have helped me to feel like I am not so alone in all this.BY the way..I am just starting the process...my PCP started suggesting the surgery a year and a half ago and I resisted the idea of it for a long time....Have just finally come to terms with it and have had my first psyc evaluation...going to my first group meeting

re: gastric bypass in the morning at Santa Clara...we'll see how it goes from there.sun Donna JordonDSJordon@... Yahoo! PersonalsLet fate take it's course directly to your email.See who's waiting for you Yahoo! Personals Donna JordonDSJordon@...

Yahoo! Personals Single? There's someone we'd like you to meet. Lots of someones, actually. Try Yahoo! Personals

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Sun I am so proud of you, for deciding the WLS which will help you in all those health problems. I had so many health problems also, now every thing keeps getting better and better. I'm sorry to hear what you had to go through as a child, but I am so happy you are married to such a supportive husband and I wish you well on this journey. I will keep you in my prayers and thoughts. This group is great and there's lots of people here for you. You take care. DonnaMike & Dawn wrote: Donna, I have not spent a lot of time in therapy/counseling with professionals, but have spent most of my adult life working on self-healing....Most recently I used a book/program called "The Artist's Way" recomended by my Kaiser NP...The book was originally designed for artists with artists block but the exersizes and such are easily adapted to other situations...in my case my history of obesity and abuse. I'm 41 now...most of my younger years I let people overstep my boundrys a lot and seldom stood up for myself in any way. In the past 10 years or so I have gotten quite good at drawing the figurative line in the sand with others. My husband of the past 6 years in a healthy, whole individual and is the Great Love

of My Life. Our relationship has always been very strongand we have a fantastic relationship all the waya round.....truely I do not think the weight loss will change our relationship, other than to possibly bond us together even more...Ths far, that is how we have always dealt with personal crisis'...we hold fast to one another, rather than turniong on one another, which I see way too often in other relationships. Our relationship, in itself, has served as a huge medium for my healing old wounds and scars...a good example of what I mean...and I dont share this one easily.... Most of my adult life I had this fantasy image of myself as a VERY young girl (roughly age 3)...always the fantasy was of me that age being taken(in the bibical sense) by an adult male....I told

no one about this mental image because as a survivor of sexual abuse, I view a pedophile as the absolute worst human ...and to admit that my own fantasy image involved me as such a young child....I was terrified it would somehow look like pedophillia....so I lived with it and told no one....that is until my husband came into my world....there was nothing that we couldn't talk about or share. When we decided to marry, I confessed to him about this mental image I had of myself as 3 year old...His reaction...his love for me didnt change one iota...but he did want me to understand that for him, he saw absolutely NO attraction to the idea if sleeping with a child, he wanted a full-grown woman in his bed....several years into our marriage, one day it was like a major ehiany for me that that mental image I had always had of myself as such a young child had changed...the 3 year old didnt exist any longer, nor could i even fathom such an idea...i relaized the child I

viewed was more life a 16-17 year old girl in my fantasy life....and the 3 year old had..."grown up" It was only after doing some serious research that I discovered wht was happening...that my "inner child" if you will...was finally in a place ...secure enough...safe enough...that she was being allowed to grow up. For many years I suspected the image was locked in at that age because that might have been when my actual abuse began (I have the actual memories of it from age 10 on....but have 0 memories from before age 10) Bottom line...I will be having wls...I have hidden behind the weght all of my adult life for emotional reasons...now the weight has become a major health issue for me

(Untreated Sleep Apnea, where i manage 1 -2 hours of sleep sitting up in a chair nightly; pre-diabeties, borderline hypertension and a lower back problem that has left me unable to do more than walk15-20 feet without it locking up and leaving me in excrutiating pain) We just moved our 21 yr old son back into our home to help with the 4 year old because I am unable to function any longer...am I going to accept existing like this, absolutely NOT... I am ready to start living my life, rather than just existing in it. Monday I had my first psyc evaluation, this morning I had my meeting with the nutritionalist...now I'm stuck waiting, but when I get my orientation Notice....I will be ready :) . [Mike & Dawn ] From: gastric-bypass-support-kaiser-patients [mailto:gastric-bypass-support-kaiser-patients ]On Behalf Of Donna JordonSent: Wednesday, December 07, 2005 10:30 AMTo: gastric-bypass-support-kaiser-patients Subject: Re: Thanks to Everyone Sun I believe it's hard with all you've gone through, and I hope you have reach out for help through psychologist and doctors to help relieve some of the pain that

life has brought you. After WLS once you are post op it does make you feel better about yourself, and sometimes stand up for yourself when you might not of when you were heavy, have different fears and sometimes you get closer to people and sometimes people go away. I hope your marriage is strong enough and things will be fine with you having WLS, but it you're marriage isn't that strong it could break it. I wasn't sure with my husband and his depression, and neither were the doctors, but with all the help we've gotten our marriage is doing good again and our love has just gotten stronger, the magic has come back like when we first got married. It is so nice. I hope you read, post and decide to do the WLS for you, and don't get scared because of the divorce rate. Those marriages might not of made it even if the person didn't have the WLS, but it does bring up issues with spouses sometimes that you wouldn't think would be said. If your

marriage is strong you will be able to work through them. Take care of yourself. Donnaskynsun2003 wrote: I've been lurking on the list for sometime...while starting the process headed to wls. I have not been posting but I definitely read each and every one of your posts.Today posts from Francisco and Katchick have really been so helpfull and informative. I have tried to come to terms with so many issues reguarding my weight, wls and what changes would hit my life....the divorce rate is so high after wls...and I love my husband so much... I don't want to loose him in the process of finding me....i dont think i would change...but...who knows. We have a wonderful intimate life...would the weight loss change things somehow???I too am a

survivor of childhood sexual abuse....from what is suspected to be about age 3 (everything before age 10 is a total blank so it's more a guess based on other factors) until I left home at 17.. then a really young marriage (18-20) to a serious abuser...I know I'm just sort of rambling in this post....but it has meant so much to me to know...I'm not isolated in my feelings in these things....nor in the expreiences in my life that have led me to this point.Anyway...within all this rambling is a HUGE Thank You to everyone for their postings and sharing of such personal issues at times. You have helped me to feel like I am not so alone in all this.BY the way..I am just starting the process...my PCP started suggesting the surgery a year and a half ago and I resisted the idea of it for a long time....Have just finally come to terms with it and have had my first psyc evaluation...going to my first group meeting

re: gastric bypass in the morning at Santa Clara...we'll see how it goes from there.sun Donna JordonDSJordon@... Yahoo! PersonalsLet fate take it's course directly to your email.See who's waiting for you Yahoo! Personals Donna JordonDSJordon@...

Yahoo! Personals Single? There's someone we'd like you to meet. Lots of someones, actually. Try Yahoo! Personals

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Good for you, that you admitted this. The reality is that to the extent that you were molested as a child, you experienced a sexual awakening for your first time. It's normal and natural to have that haunt you somewhat. But, it's really wonderful that you don't have to go back in time, to that place where you felt innocent (and maybe worthy of love?) before you were "tainted." And now...with the love of a good man, and your hardwork, you are starting to realize that you deserve love and sex as a grown up woman. That it can be innocent and pure even if it occurs today, in the now, as a grown up. Thanks for sharing that, Dawn. Good luck on your journey. RobynnMike & Dawn wrote: Donna, I have not spent a lot of time in therapy/counseling with professionals, but have spent most of my adult life working on self-healing....Most recently I used a book/program called "The Artist's Way" recomended by my Kaiser NP...The book was originally designed for artists with artists block but the exersizes and such are easily adapted to other situations...in my case my history of obesity and abuse. I'm 41 now...most of my younger years I let people overstep

my boundrys a lot and seldom stood up for myself in any way. In the past 10 years or so I have gotten quite good at drawing the figurative line in the sand with others. My husband of the past 6 years in a healthy, whole individual and is the Great Love of My Life. Our relationship has always been very strongand we have a fantastic relationship all the waya round.....truely I do not think the weight loss will change our relationship, other than to possibly bond us together even more...Ths far, that is how we have always dealt with personal crisis'...we hold fast to one another, rather than turniong on one another, which I see way too often in other relationships. Our relationship, in itself, has served as a huge medium for my healing old wounds and scars...a good example of what I mean...and I dont share this one easily.... Most of my adult life I had this fantasy image of myself as a VERY young girl (roughly age 3)...always the fantasy was of me that age being taken(in the bibical sense) by an adult male....I told no one about this mental image because as a survivor of sexual abuse, I view a pedophile as the absolute worst human ...and to admit that my own fantasy image involved me as such a young child....I was terrified it would somehow look like pedophillia....so I lived with it and told no one....that is until my husband came into my world....there was nothing that we couldn't talk about or share. When we decided to marry, I confessed to him about this mental image I had of myself as 3 year old...His reaction...his love for me didnt change one iota...but he did want me to understand that for him, he saw absolutely NO attraction to the idea if sleeping with a child, he wanted a full-grown woman in his

bed....several years into our marriage, one day it was like a major ehiany for me that that mental image I had always had of myself as such a young child had changed...the 3 year old didnt exist any longer, nor could i even fathom such an idea...i relaized the child I viewed was more life a 16-17 year old girl in my fantasy life....and the 3 year old had..."grown up" It was only after doing some serious research that I discovered wht was happening...that my "inner child" if you will...was finally in a place ...secure enough...safe enough...that she was being allowed to grow up. For many years I suspected the image was locked in at that age because that might have been when my actual abuse began (I have the actual memories of it from age 10 on....but have 0 memories from before age 10) Bottom line...I will be having wls...I have hidden behind the weght all of my adult life for emotional reasons...now the weight has become a major health issue for me (Untreated Sleep Apnea, where i manage 1 -2 hours of sleep sitting up in a chair nightly; pre-diabeties, borderline hypertension and a lower back problem that has left me unable to do more than walk15-20 feet without it locking up and leaving me in excrutiating pain) We just moved our 21 yr old son back into our home to help with the 4 year old because I am unable to function any longer...am I going to accept existing like this, absolutely NOT... I am ready to start living my life, rather than just existing in it. Monday I had my first psyc evaluation, this morning I had my meeting with the nutritionalist...now I'm stuck waiting, but when I get my orientation Notice....I will be ready

:) . [Mike & Dawn ] From: gastric-bypass-support-kaiser-patients [mailto:gastric-bypass-support-kaiser-patients ]On Behalf Of Donna JordonSent: Wednesday, December 07, 2005 10:30 AMTo:

gastric-bypass-support-kaiser-patients Subject: Re: Thanks to Everyone Sun I believe it's hard with all you've gone through, and I hope you have reach out for help through psychologist and doctors to help relieve some of the pain that life has brought you. After WLS once you are post op it does make you feel better about yourself, and sometimes stand up for yourself when you might not of when you were heavy, have different fears and sometimes you get closer to people and sometimes people go away. I hope your marriage is strong enough and things will be fine with you having WLS, but it you're marriage isn't that strong it could break it. I wasn't sure with my husband and his depression, and neither were the doctors, but with all the help we've gotten our marriage is doing good again and our love has just gotten stronger, the magic has come

back like when we first got married. It is so nice. I hope you read, post and decide to do the WLS for you, and don't get scared because of the divorce rate. Those marriages might not of made it even if the person didn't have the WLS, but it does bring up issues with spouses sometimes that you wouldn't think would be said. If your marriage is strong you will be able to work through them. Take care of yourself. Donnaskynsun2003 wrote: I've been lurking on the list for sometime...while starting the process headed to wls. I have not been posting but I definitely read each and every one of your posts.Today posts from Francisco and Katchick have really been so helpfull and informative. I have tried to come to terms with so many issues reguarding my

weight, wls and what changes would hit my life....the divorce rate is so high after wls...and I love my husband so much... I don't want to loose him in the process of finding me....i dont think i would change...but...who knows. We have a wonderful intimate life...would the weight loss change things somehow???I too am a survivor of childhood sexual abuse....from what is suspected to be about age 3 (everything before age 10 is a total blank so it's more a guess based on other factors) until I left home at 17.. then a really young marriage (18-20) to a serious abuser...I know I'm just sort of rambling in this post....but it has meant so much to me to know...I'm not isolated in my feelings in these things....nor in the expreiences in my life that have led me to this point.Anyway...within all this rambling is a HUGE Thank You to everyone for their postings and sharing of such personal issues at times. You

have helped me to feel like I am not so alone in all this.BY the way..I am just starting the process...my PCP started suggesting the surgery a year and a half ago and I resisted the idea of it for a long time....Have just finally come to terms with it and have had my first psyc evaluation...going to my first group meeting re: gastric bypass in the morning at Santa Clara...we'll see how it goes from there.sun Donna JordonDSJordon@... Yahoo! PersonalsLet fate take it's course directly to your email.See who's waiting for you Yahoo! Personals

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Good for you, that you admitted this. The reality is that to the extent that you were molested as a child, you experienced a sexual awakening for your first time. It's normal and natural to have that haunt you somewhat. But, it's really wonderful that you don't have to go back in time, to that place where you felt innocent (and maybe worthy of love?) before you were "tainted." And now...with the love of a good man, and your hardwork, you are starting to realize that you deserve love and sex as a grown up woman. That it can be innocent and pure even if it occurs today, in the now, as a grown up. Thanks for sharing that, Dawn. Good luck on your journey. RobynnMike & Dawn wrote: Donna, I have not spent a lot of time in therapy/counseling with professionals, but have spent most of my adult life working on self-healing....Most recently I used a book/program called "The Artist's Way" recomended by my Kaiser NP...The book was originally designed for artists with artists block but the exersizes and such are easily adapted to other situations...in my case my history of obesity and abuse. I'm 41 now...most of my younger years I let people overstep

my boundrys a lot and seldom stood up for myself in any way. In the past 10 years or so I have gotten quite good at drawing the figurative line in the sand with others. My husband of the past 6 years in a healthy, whole individual and is the Great Love of My Life. Our relationship has always been very strongand we have a fantastic relationship all the waya round.....truely I do not think the weight loss will change our relationship, other than to possibly bond us together even more...Ths far, that is how we have always dealt with personal crisis'...we hold fast to one another, rather than turniong on one another, which I see way too often in other relationships. Our relationship, in itself, has served as a huge medium for my healing old wounds and scars...a good example of what I mean...and I dont share this one easily.... Most of my adult life I had this fantasy image of myself as a VERY young girl (roughly age 3)...always the fantasy was of me that age being taken(in the bibical sense) by an adult male....I told no one about this mental image because as a survivor of sexual abuse, I view a pedophile as the absolute worst human ...and to admit that my own fantasy image involved me as such a young child....I was terrified it would somehow look like pedophillia....so I lived with it and told no one....that is until my husband came into my world....there was nothing that we couldn't talk about or share. When we decided to marry, I confessed to him about this mental image I had of myself as 3 year old...His reaction...his love for me didnt change one iota...but he did want me to understand that for him, he saw absolutely NO attraction to the idea if sleeping with a child, he wanted a full-grown woman in his

bed....several years into our marriage, one day it was like a major ehiany for me that that mental image I had always had of myself as such a young child had changed...the 3 year old didnt exist any longer, nor could i even fathom such an idea...i relaized the child I viewed was more life a 16-17 year old girl in my fantasy life....and the 3 year old had..."grown up" It was only after doing some serious research that I discovered wht was happening...that my "inner child" if you will...was finally in a place ...secure enough...safe enough...that she was being allowed to grow up. For many years I suspected the image was locked in at that age because that might have been when my actual abuse began (I have the actual memories of it from age 10 on....but have 0 memories from before age 10) Bottom line...I will be having wls...I have hidden behind the weght all of my adult life for emotional reasons...now the weight has become a major health issue for me (Untreated Sleep Apnea, where i manage 1 -2 hours of sleep sitting up in a chair nightly; pre-diabeties, borderline hypertension and a lower back problem that has left me unable to do more than walk15-20 feet without it locking up and leaving me in excrutiating pain) We just moved our 21 yr old son back into our home to help with the 4 year old because I am unable to function any longer...am I going to accept existing like this, absolutely NOT... I am ready to start living my life, rather than just existing in it. Monday I had my first psyc evaluation, this morning I had my meeting with the nutritionalist...now I'm stuck waiting, but when I get my orientation Notice....I will be ready

:) . [Mike & Dawn ] From: gastric-bypass-support-kaiser-patients [mailto:gastric-bypass-support-kaiser-patients ]On Behalf Of Donna JordonSent: Wednesday, December 07, 2005 10:30 AMTo:

gastric-bypass-support-kaiser-patients Subject: Re: Thanks to Everyone Sun I believe it's hard with all you've gone through, and I hope you have reach out for help through psychologist and doctors to help relieve some of the pain that life has brought you. After WLS once you are post op it does make you feel better about yourself, and sometimes stand up for yourself when you might not of when you were heavy, have different fears and sometimes you get closer to people and sometimes people go away. I hope your marriage is strong enough and things will be fine with you having WLS, but it you're marriage isn't that strong it could break it. I wasn't sure with my husband and his depression, and neither were the doctors, but with all the help we've gotten our marriage is doing good again and our love has just gotten stronger, the magic has come

back like when we first got married. It is so nice. I hope you read, post and decide to do the WLS for you, and don't get scared because of the divorce rate. Those marriages might not of made it even if the person didn't have the WLS, but it does bring up issues with spouses sometimes that you wouldn't think would be said. If your marriage is strong you will be able to work through them. Take care of yourself. Donnaskynsun2003 wrote: I've been lurking on the list for sometime...while starting the process headed to wls. I have not been posting but I definitely read each and every one of your posts.Today posts from Francisco and Katchick have really been so helpfull and informative. I have tried to come to terms with so many issues reguarding my

weight, wls and what changes would hit my life....the divorce rate is so high after wls...and I love my husband so much... I don't want to loose him in the process of finding me....i dont think i would change...but...who knows. We have a wonderful intimate life...would the weight loss change things somehow???I too am a survivor of childhood sexual abuse....from what is suspected to be about age 3 (everything before age 10 is a total blank so it's more a guess based on other factors) until I left home at 17.. then a really young marriage (18-20) to a serious abuser...I know I'm just sort of rambling in this post....but it has meant so much to me to know...I'm not isolated in my feelings in these things....nor in the expreiences in my life that have led me to this point.Anyway...within all this rambling is a HUGE Thank You to everyone for their postings and sharing of such personal issues at times. You

have helped me to feel like I am not so alone in all this.BY the way..I am just starting the process...my PCP started suggesting the surgery a year and a half ago and I resisted the idea of it for a long time....Have just finally come to terms with it and have had my first psyc evaluation...going to my first group meeting re: gastric bypass in the morning at Santa Clara...we'll see how it goes from there.sun Donna JordonDSJordon@... Yahoo! PersonalsLet fate take it's course directly to your email.See who's waiting for you Yahoo! Personals

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Wow, you've come through so much - but you sound like you're making

huge progress and gaining a lot of insight along the way. I'm sorry

about the past, but I'm proud of you for everything you've done and

how far you've come so far!

One thing worries me - you mention " untreated sleep apnea " . Why

untreated? Have you asked your PCP to refer you for a sleep study? If

you even suspect you have a sleep disorder, you should get a referral

RIGHT AWAY - you're leaving yourself at risk for a heart attack, not

to mention that the lack of good sleep is probably contributing to

elevated blood sugar and hypertension. Yes, your weight puts you at

risk for all those things as well, but you don't need to wait for

surgery to take care of sleep apnea - and getting enough sleep also

helps with losing the 10% you'll need to take off before surgery.

This is critical, and it's something you can do to take care of

yourself NOW!

Cathy C.

>

> Donna,

>

> I have not spent a lot of time in therapy/counseling with

professionals, but

> have spent most of my adult life working on self-healing....Most

recently I

> used a book/program called " The Artist's Way " recomended by my

Kaiser

> NP...The book was originally designed for artists with artists

block but the

> exersizes and such are easily adapted to other situations...in my

case my

> history of obesity and abuse.

>

> I'm 41 now...most of my younger years I let people overstep my

boundrys a

> lot and seldom stood up for myself in any way. In the past 10

years or so I

> have gotten quite good at drawing the figurative line in the sand

with

> others. My husband of the past 6 years in a healthy, whole

individual and

> is the Great Love of My Life. Our relationship has always been very

> strongand we have a fantastic relationship all the waya

round.....truely I

> do not think the weight loss will change our relationship, other

than to

> possibly bond us together even more...Ths far, that is how we have

always

> dealt with personal crisis'...we hold fast to one another, rather

than

> turniong on one another, which I see way too often in other

relationships.

> Our relationship, in itself, has served as a huge medium for my

healing old

> wounds and scars...a good example of what I mean...and I dont share

this one

> easily....

>

> Most of my adult life I had this fantasy image of myself as a VERY

young

> girl (roughly age 3)...always the fantasy was of me that age being

taken(in

> the bibical sense) by an adult male....I told no one about this

mental image

> because as a survivor of sexual abuse, I view a pedophile as the

absolute

> worst human ...and to admit that my own fantasy image involved me

as such a

> young child....I was terrified it would somehow look like

pedophillia....so

> I lived with it and told no one....that is until my husband came

into my

> world....there was nothing that we couldn't talk about or share.

When we

> decided to marry, I confessed to him about this mental image I had

of myself

> as 3 year old...His reaction...his love for me didnt change one

iota...but

> he did want me to understand that for him, he saw absolutely NO

attraction

> to the idea if sleeping with a child, he wanted a full-grown woman

in his

> bed....several years into our marriage, one day it was like a major

ehiany

> for me that that mental image I had always had of myself as such a

young

> child had changed...the 3 year old didnt exist any longer, nor

could i even

> fathom such an idea...i relaized the child I viewed was more life a

16-17

> year old girl in my fantasy life....and the 3 year old had... " grown

up " It

> was only after doing some serious research that I discovered wht was

> happening...that my " inner child " if you will...was finally in a

place

> ...secure enough...safe enough...that she was being allowed to grow

up. For

> many years I suspected the image was locked in at that age because

that

> might have been when my actual abuse began (I have the actual

memories of it

> from age 10 on....but have 0 memories from before age 10)

>

> Bottom line...I will be having wls...I have hidden behind the weght

all of

> my adult life for emotional reasons...now the weight has become a

major

> health issue for me (Untreated Sleep Apnea, where i manage 1 -2

hours of

> sleep sitting up in a chair nightly; pre-diabeties, borderline

hypertension

> and a lower back problem that has left me unable to do more than

walk15-20

> feet without it locking up and leaving me in excrutiating pain) We

just

> moved our 21 yr old son back into our home to help with the 4 year

old

> because I am unable to function any longer...am I going to accept

existing

> like this, absolutely NOT... I am ready to start living my life,

rather than

> just existing in it. Monday I had my first psyc evaluation, this

morning I

> had my meeting with the nutritionalist...now I'm stuck waiting, but

when I

> get my orientation Notice....I will be ready :)

> .

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Wow, you've come through so much - but you sound like you're making

huge progress and gaining a lot of insight along the way. I'm sorry

about the past, but I'm proud of you for everything you've done and

how far you've come so far!

One thing worries me - you mention " untreated sleep apnea " . Why

untreated? Have you asked your PCP to refer you for a sleep study? If

you even suspect you have a sleep disorder, you should get a referral

RIGHT AWAY - you're leaving yourself at risk for a heart attack, not

to mention that the lack of good sleep is probably contributing to

elevated blood sugar and hypertension. Yes, your weight puts you at

risk for all those things as well, but you don't need to wait for

surgery to take care of sleep apnea - and getting enough sleep also

helps with losing the 10% you'll need to take off before surgery.

This is critical, and it's something you can do to take care of

yourself NOW!

Cathy C.

>

> Donna,

>

> I have not spent a lot of time in therapy/counseling with

professionals, but

> have spent most of my adult life working on self-healing....Most

recently I

> used a book/program called " The Artist's Way " recomended by my

Kaiser

> NP...The book was originally designed for artists with artists

block but the

> exersizes and such are easily adapted to other situations...in my

case my

> history of obesity and abuse.

>

> I'm 41 now...most of my younger years I let people overstep my

boundrys a

> lot and seldom stood up for myself in any way. In the past 10

years or so I

> have gotten quite good at drawing the figurative line in the sand

with

> others. My husband of the past 6 years in a healthy, whole

individual and

> is the Great Love of My Life. Our relationship has always been very

> strongand we have a fantastic relationship all the waya

round.....truely I

> do not think the weight loss will change our relationship, other

than to

> possibly bond us together even more...Ths far, that is how we have

always

> dealt with personal crisis'...we hold fast to one another, rather

than

> turniong on one another, which I see way too often in other

relationships.

> Our relationship, in itself, has served as a huge medium for my

healing old

> wounds and scars...a good example of what I mean...and I dont share

this one

> easily....

>

> Most of my adult life I had this fantasy image of myself as a VERY

young

> girl (roughly age 3)...always the fantasy was of me that age being

taken(in

> the bibical sense) by an adult male....I told no one about this

mental image

> because as a survivor of sexual abuse, I view a pedophile as the

absolute

> worst human ...and to admit that my own fantasy image involved me

as such a

> young child....I was terrified it would somehow look like

pedophillia....so

> I lived with it and told no one....that is until my husband came

into my

> world....there was nothing that we couldn't talk about or share.

When we

> decided to marry, I confessed to him about this mental image I had

of myself

> as 3 year old...His reaction...his love for me didnt change one

iota...but

> he did want me to understand that for him, he saw absolutely NO

attraction

> to the idea if sleeping with a child, he wanted a full-grown woman

in his

> bed....several years into our marriage, one day it was like a major

ehiany

> for me that that mental image I had always had of myself as such a

young

> child had changed...the 3 year old didnt exist any longer, nor

could i even

> fathom such an idea...i relaized the child I viewed was more life a

16-17

> year old girl in my fantasy life....and the 3 year old had... " grown

up " It

> was only after doing some serious research that I discovered wht was

> happening...that my " inner child " if you will...was finally in a

place

> ...secure enough...safe enough...that she was being allowed to grow

up. For

> many years I suspected the image was locked in at that age because

that

> might have been when my actual abuse began (I have the actual

memories of it

> from age 10 on....but have 0 memories from before age 10)

>

> Bottom line...I will be having wls...I have hidden behind the weght

all of

> my adult life for emotional reasons...now the weight has become a

major

> health issue for me (Untreated Sleep Apnea, where i manage 1 -2

hours of

> sleep sitting up in a chair nightly; pre-diabeties, borderline

hypertension

> and a lower back problem that has left me unable to do more than

walk15-20

> feet without it locking up and leaving me in excrutiating pain) We

just

> moved our 21 yr old son back into our home to help with the 4 year

old

> because I am unable to function any longer...am I going to accept

existing

> like this, absolutely NOT... I am ready to start living my life,

rather than

> just existing in it. Monday I had my first psyc evaluation, this

morning I

> had my meeting with the nutritionalist...now I'm stuck waiting, but

when I

> get my orientation Notice....I will be ready :)

> .

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I go to Santa Clara; I think their current process is to refer you

to a class/orientation session (usually Wednesday afternoons) where

they explain all about sleep apnea and then set up your actual sleep

study. Like everything else it's not fast but at least you're

started - and then maybe there will be less to do with the bariatric

program down the road, right? It can take a few weeks, but it

shouldn't be long - I'd say that if you don't get a response in two -

three weeks you should send a message back to your PCP and ask her

to see if it can be expedited.

Cathy

> >

> > Donna,

> >

> > I have not spent a lot of time in therapy/counseling with

> professionals, but

> > have spent most of my adult life working on self-

healing....Most

> recently I

> > used a book/program called " The Artist's Way " recomended by my

> Kaiser

> > NP...The book was originally designed for artists with artists

> block but the

> > exersizes and such are easily adapted to other situations...in

my

> case my

> > history of obesity and abuse.

> >

> > I'm 41 now...most of my younger years I let people overstep my

> boundrys a

> > lot and seldom stood up for myself in any way. In the past 10

> years or so I

> > have gotten quite good at drawing the figurative line in the

sand

> with

> > others. My husband of the past 6 years in a healthy, whole

> individual and

> > is the Great Love of My Life. Our relationship has always

been very

> > strongand we have a fantastic relationship all the waya

> round.....truely I

> > do not think the weight loss will change our relationship,

other

> than to

> > possibly bond us together even more...Ths far, that is how we

have

> always

> > dealt with personal crisis'...we hold fast to one another,

rather

> than

> > turniong on one another, which I see way too often in other

> relationships.

> > Our relationship, in itself, has served as a huge medium for my

> healing old

> > wounds and scars...a good example of what I mean...and I dont

share

> this one

> > easily....

> >

> > Most of my adult life I had this fantasy image of myself as a

VERY

> young

> > girl (roughly age 3)...always the fantasy was of me that age

being

> taken(in

> > the bibical sense) by an adult male....I told no one about this

> mental image

> > because as a survivor of sexual abuse, I view a pedophile as

the

> absolute

> > worst human ...and to admit that my own fantasy image

involved me

> as such a

> > young child....I was terrified it would somehow look like

> pedophillia....so

> > I lived with it and told no one....that is until my husband

came

> into my

> > world....there was nothing that we couldn't talk about or

share.

> When we

> > decided to marry, I confessed to him about this mental image I

had

> of myself

> > as 3 year old...His reaction...his love for me didnt change

one

> iota...but

> > he did want me to understand that for him, he saw absolutely NO

> attraction

> > to the idea if sleeping with a child, he wanted a full-grown

woman

> in his

> > bed....several years into our marriage, one day it was like a

major

> ehiany

> > for me that that mental image I had always had of myself as

such a

> young

> > child had changed...the 3 year old didnt exist any longer, nor

> could i even

> > fathom such an idea...i relaized the child I viewed was more

life a

> 16-17

> > year old girl in my fantasy life....and the 3 year old

had... " grown

> up " It

> > was only after doing some serious research that I discovered

wht was

> > happening...that my " inner child " if you will...was finally in

a

> place

> > ...secure enough...safe enough...that she was being allowed to

grow

> up. For

> > many years I suspected the image was locked in at that age

because

> that

> > might have been when my actual abuse began (I have the actual

> memories of it

> > from age 10 on....but have 0 memories from before age 10)

> >

> > Bottom line...I will be having wls...I have hidden behind the

weght

> all of

> > my adult life for emotional reasons...now the weight has

become a

> major

> > health issue for me (Untreated Sleep Apnea, where i manage 1 -

2

> hours of

> > sleep sitting up in a chair nightly; pre-diabeties, borderline

> hypertension

> > and a lower back problem that has left me unable to do more

than

> walk15-20

> > feet without it locking up and leaving me in excrutiating

pain) We

> just

> > moved our 21 yr old son back into our home to help with the 4

year

> old

> > because I am unable to function any longer...am I going to

accept

> existing

> > like this, absolutely NOT... I am ready to start living my

life,

> rather than

> > just existing in it. Monday I had my first psyc evaluation,

this

> morning I

> > had my meeting with the nutritionalist...now I'm stuck

waiting, but

> when I

> > get my orientation Notice....I will be ready :)

> > .

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You are posting as a guest. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...
×
×
  • Create New...