Re: Calling all Dr. Ren Patients!

[Guest guest]

Deb read this , thanks for lovely letter

[Guest guest]

Deb read this , thanks for lovely letter

[Guest guest]

Dr Ren has had mostly excellent outcomes to her surgeries.. however,

the exception was a doosie. Check out:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NYUMC-TheTruthAboutRen

to find out about that case...

Good luck in your quest for a surgeon!

Hugs,

Liane

[Guest guest]

Dr Ren has had mostly excellent outcomes to her surgeries.. however,

the exception was a doosie. Check out:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NYUMC-TheTruthAboutRen

to find out about that case...

Good luck in your quest for a surgeon!

Hugs,

Liane

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 8/6/01 9:37:11 PM, duodenalswitch writes:

<<

I'd like to hear from those of you who see/saw Dr. Ren, especially

men. I've heard some great things, and then some hushed mentions

of " a bad outcome " . Is this a taboo topic or can someone shed some

light on this?

>>

It is not a taboo topic and it has been avidly discussed, debated and such on

these boards. One of the members of our community, Deb (ciar1, I think is

her e-mail addy), had an uneventful and unexpected outcome after her DS with

Dr. Ren. The issue really divided this group and emotions flared. This is

why, now that things have finally died down a bit, no one wants to have it

flare up again!

I think if you go to the archives and search for Dr. Ren and/or Ciar1, etc.

you will get all the past information and be privy to the discussions and

debates.

All the best,

Noverr-Chin

co-moderator, duodenalswitch

lap ds with gallbladder removal

January 25, 2001

Dr. Gagner/Mt. SInai/NYC

six months post-op and still feelin' fabu!

pre-op: 307 lbs/bmi 45 (5' 9 1/2 " )

now: 228

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 8/6/01 9:37:11 PM, duodenalswitch writes:

<<

I'd like to hear from those of you who see/saw Dr. Ren, especially

men. I've heard some great things, and then some hushed mentions

of " a bad outcome " . Is this a taboo topic or can someone shed some

light on this?

>>

It is not a taboo topic and it has been avidly discussed, debated and such on

these boards. One of the members of our community, Deb (ciar1, I think is

her e-mail addy), had an uneventful and unexpected outcome after her DS with

Dr. Ren. The issue really divided this group and emotions flared. This is

why, now that things have finally died down a bit, no one wants to have it

flare up again!

I think if you go to the archives and search for Dr. Ren and/or Ciar1, etc.

you will get all the past information and be privy to the discussions and

debates.

All the best,

Noverr-Chin

co-moderator, duodenalswitch

lap ds with gallbladder removal

January 25, 2001

Dr. Gagner/Mt. SInai/NYC

six months post-op and still feelin' fabu!

pre-op: 307 lbs/bmi 45 (5' 9 1/2 " )

now: 228

[Guest guest]

Liane,

Another gal from another group I belong to said that dr ren tried to talk

her out of the ds....that her BMI was not high enough (its 42) and that the

recuperation for taking care of 3 kids was too much to justify the surgery

and instead tried to tell her the RNY was much safer.....

Im really puzzled!

Judie

[Guest guest]

Liane,

Another gal from another group I belong to said that dr ren tried to talk

her out of the ds....that her BMI was not high enough (its 42) and that the

recuperation for taking care of 3 kids was too much to justify the surgery

and instead tried to tell her the RNY was much safer.....

Im really puzzled!

Judie

[Guest guest]

Dear Judie,

I am puzzled too since my BMI was just barely 40, I had no co-

morbitities (except knees that hurt from the excess weight), I have

two small children and a very demanding job as a CFO of a company and

Dr. Ren was convinced that the Lap BPD/DS was the right surgery for

me. Sometimes there is more to it than meets the eye. Sometimes a

surgeon may think compliance will be an issue. Maybe there are other

health/social/mental/physical issues that the person on the other

side of the computer didn't tell you about. You will never really

know and we cannot second guess why a surgeon who does all the types

of WLS out there tells someone that a particular surgery may not be

for them. If a patient was rejected for a particular reason, it is

not unheard of for them to delete that info from their history and go

to another surgeon who may not pick up on it and give them the DS. I

know this statement may cause a riot here but, statistically

speaking, the RNY does have less serious complications by % than a

BPD/DS. I knew this going into it and had a Lap BPD/DS anyway. Long

term, even though we will lose more weight, have a better eating

lifestyle (in my opinion) and keep more of the weight off, there is a

degree of diligence that a DSer must have that an RNYer (unless

extremely distal) doesn't have to have. That is why there are

several types of WLS. Part of a pre-op's homework is not only to

find a surgeon but a surgery that suits them best.

Jane J.

230/178

Lap BPD/DS

April 26, 2001

Dr. Ren

NYU Medical Center, NYC

www.thinforlife.org

> Liane,

> Another gal from another group I belong to said that dr ren tried

to talk

> her out of the ds....that her BMI was not high enough (its 42) and

that the

> recuperation for taking care of 3 kids was too much to justify the

surgery

> and instead tried to tell her the RNY was much safer.....

> Im really puzzled!

>

> Judie

[Guest guest]

Dear Judie,

I am puzzled too since my BMI was just barely 40, I had no co-

morbitities (except knees that hurt from the excess weight), I have

two small children and a very demanding job as a CFO of a company and

Dr. Ren was convinced that the Lap BPD/DS was the right surgery for

me. Sometimes there is more to it than meets the eye. Sometimes a

surgeon may think compliance will be an issue. Maybe there are other

health/social/mental/physical issues that the person on the other

side of the computer didn't tell you about. You will never really

know and we cannot second guess why a surgeon who does all the types

of WLS out there tells someone that a particular surgery may not be

for them. If a patient was rejected for a particular reason, it is

not unheard of for them to delete that info from their history and go

to another surgeon who may not pick up on it and give them the DS. I

know this statement may cause a riot here but, statistically

speaking, the RNY does have less serious complications by % than a

BPD/DS. I knew this going into it and had a Lap BPD/DS anyway. Long

term, even though we will lose more weight, have a better eating

lifestyle (in my opinion) and keep more of the weight off, there is a

degree of diligence that a DSer must have that an RNYer (unless

extremely distal) doesn't have to have. That is why there are

several types of WLS. Part of a pre-op's homework is not only to

find a surgeon but a surgery that suits them best.

Jane J.

230/178

Lap BPD/DS

April 26, 2001

Dr. Ren

NYU Medical Center, NYC

www.thinforlife.org

> Liane,

> Another gal from another group I belong to said that dr ren tried

to talk

> her out of the ds....that her BMI was not high enough (its 42) and

that the

> recuperation for taking care of 3 kids was too much to justify the

surgery

> and instead tried to tell her the RNY was much safer.....

> Im really puzzled!

>

> Judie

[Guest guest]

The surgeon makes their decision based upon what they think think

is best for each individual. I think that they have to feel that

you can make the neccessary lifestyle changes to succeed at wls.

Gagner reccommended RNY to me. I personally didn't feel that RNY

was for me and would make my life miserable. The important thing to

remember here is that they surgeon reccommends the type of surgery

that they feel you would do best with. There are some factors in your

life and in your personality which the surgeon may not cover which let

you know that perhaps another surgery might be better for you. However

the two of you decide together what is best for you. And in the end

you decide whether you can adhere to the new way of life post-op. I

knew that I could not bear to be sick. I also knew that I would

rather not eat than eat what I do not like. I knew that RNY would

not allow me to eat what I wanted to eat so I would not heal very

well because I would not eat. I also knew that if I got sick regularly

from eating that I would stop eating. I also knew several people who

has succeeded at the Atkins diet so I knew that a high protein low fat

and low carb diet would help me lose weight. I also knew that I wanted

a family and I have yet to meet a RNY patient who has children and not

piled the pounds back on. I also knew that it would easier to add

supplements to my diet than take them out. It has not been easy with

DS. I am struggling every day to meet the protein requirements due to

my hectic work schedule. Post-Op a lot of foods and textures turn

my stomach upside down. As a CFO or a VP of a company there would be

now way that I would have the time to do it.

I think that the surgeons want to make sure you are aware of how

difficult it is to get in 75g of protein a day and eventually work up

to 150g. This is challenge on someone who access to a kitchen all

day. But for someone who has to work 10+ hours a day which many of do

it is a daily challenge. In this day of downsizing and cut-backs we

are all doing what we can to stay employed. Combine these factors with

wls and your increased nutritional needs and you have a lot of work

cut out for you. This does not include family, freinds,children, and

other obligations.

I am convinced that DS was the right way for me to go. However,

everyone has to know how difficult it can be in the early phases of

recovery. I think that everyone should try to get in 75g of protein in

the course of day for a week. This would give you a good idea of what

life will be like post-op.

> Greetings.

>

> I'd like to hear from those of you who see/saw Dr. Ren, especially

> men. I've heard some great things, and then some hushed mentions

> of " a bad outcome " . Is this a taboo topic or can someone shed some

> light on this?

>

> I originally thought Dr. Gagner was the answer, but I'm hearing so

> many horror stories about Mt. Sinai that I'm re-thinking.

>

> Arrrrrrggghhhhhhhh!

>

> Thanks everyone!

[Guest guest]

Jane,

Ive known this person for quite some time now......when she found out about

the DS, cancelled her plans for the RNY and then Dr Ren tried to talk her

into the lap band instead of the DS......I think that should be an

individual choice. Ren did tell her she would do it if she really wanted it

but wasnt entusiastic about it. My own surgeon does both the RNY and the

DS and leaves the decision up to the individual as long as hes done his

homework......however, she is not convinced the lap band is the right thing

to do and doesnt want any revisions in the future and Ren had insisted if

the lap band didnt work they could do the DS then......I dont buy that when

the DS is by far, the best way to go today!

Judie

[Guest guest]

wow.. guess that explains why the guy from that MSNBC show, " The Last

Chance " got an RnY, even tho he was a prime DS candidate...

Strange...

Liane

> Liane,

> Another gal from another group I belong to said that dr ren tried to

talk

> her out of the ds....that her BMI was not high enough (its 42) and

that the

> recuperation for taking care of 3 kids was too much to justify the

surgery

> and instead tried to tell her the RNY was much safer.....

> Im really puzzled!

>

> Judie

[Guest guest]

This is just a guess, but I think that Dr. Ren has

just started to do the lap band surgery and so if you

go to see her and you fit the criteria for getting it

( 100 pounds overweight) than she will recommend it.

She is looking to expand this part of her practice.

If one is informed about the efficacy of the

adjustable lap band procedure, one is less inclined to

get it. I'd love to haveit IF it would work. But Dr.

Gagner's literature stated patients lose only 40

percent of the excess weight and Dr. Herron in his

lecture at the informational meetings said it was more

like 30 percent effective.

Debra

--- dreamweavergirlus@... wrote:

> The surgeon makes their decision based upon what

> they think think

> is best for each individual. I think that they have

> to feel that

> you can make the neccessary lifestyle changes to

> succeed at wls.

> Gagner reccommended RNY to me. I personally didn't

> feel that RNY

> was for me and would make my life miserable. The

> important thing to

> remember here is that they surgeon reccommends the

> type of surgery

> that they feel you would do best with. There are

> some factors in your

> life and in your personality which the surgeon may

> not cover which let

> you know that perhaps another surgery might be

> better for you. However

> the two of you decide together what is best for you.

> And in the end

> you decide whether you can adhere to the new way of

> life post-op. I

> knew that I could not bear to be sick. I also knew

> that I would

> rather not eat than eat what I do not like. I knew

> that RNY would

> not allow me to eat what I wanted to eat so I would

> not heal very

> well because I would not eat. I also knew that if I

> got sick regularly

> from eating that I would stop eating. I also knew

> several people who

> has succeeded at the Atkins diet so I knew that a

> high protein low fat

> and low carb diet would help me lose weight. I also

> knew that I wanted

> a family and I have yet to meet a RNY patient who

> has children and not

> piled the pounds back on. I also knew that it would

> easier to add

> supplements to my diet than take them out. It has

> not been easy with

> DS. I am struggling every day to meet the protein

> requirements due to

> my hectic work schedule. Post-Op a lot of foods and

> textures turn

> my stomach upside down. As a CFO or a VP of a

> company there would be

> now way that I would have the time to do it.

>

> I think that the surgeons want to make sure you are

> aware of how

> difficult it is to get in 75g of protein a day and

> eventually work up

> to 150g. This is challenge on someone who access to

> a kitchen all

> day. But for someone who has to work 10+ hours a day

> which many of do

> it is a daily challenge. In this day of downsizing

> and cut-backs we

> are all doing what we can to stay employed. Combine

> these factors with

> wls and your increased nutritional needs and you

> have a lot of work

> cut out for you. This does not include family,

> freinds,children, and

> other obligations.

>

>

> I am convinced that DS was the right way for me to

> go. However,

> everyone has to know how difficult it can be in the

> early phases of

> recovery. I think that everyone should try to get in

> 75g of protein in

> the course of day for a week. This would give you a

> good idea of what

> life will be like post-op.

>

>

>

> > Greetings.

> >

> > I'd like to hear from those of you who see/saw Dr.

> Ren, especially

> > men. I've heard some great things, and then some

> hushed mentions

> > of " a bad outcome " . Is this a taboo topic or can

> someone shed some

> > light on this?

> >

> > I originally thought Dr. Gagner was the answer,

> but I'm hearing so

> > many horror stories about Mt. Sinai that I'm

> re-thinking.

> >

> > Arrrrrrggghhhhhhhh!

> >

> > Thanks everyone!

>

>

>

----------------------------------------------------------------------

>

[Guest guest]

I went to see Dr. Ren for my consult about two weeks ago, and I, too, was

told about the lap band. I went home and thought about it and there are

strong arguments in its favor - the surgery is so much less complicated, the

recovery time faster, the weight loss, if you are in the 100-120 pound

range, is nearly as good as the DS (according to her numbers) - and decided

to go for the lap band.

Then I went to meet with Barrie Wolfe, Dr. Ren's nutritionist. I brought my

9 year old daughter with me, since I grew up a few blocks from NYU and she

likes to see my old neighborhood and she did NOT want to go to day camp that

day. Barrie invited my daughter in. Amy sat and listened to the discussion

of what a lap band patient could and could not eat. I said yes, i thought I

could do it. In the hallway Amy turned to me and said, " mommy, please don't

do this. You're going to puke all the time. And you're never going to get

to eat what you like to anymore. You can't have a steak, you have to stick

to this list. Mom. You always tell me dieting doesn't work, and this is

like a diet for the rest of your life! "

Hmm.

Sunday I went to a party with a bunch of WLS people, almost all of whom have

had a DS (or are planning it). The food included corn on the cob, hot dogs,

hamburgers, eggplant parmagiana...it was indistinguishable from what anybody

" normal " would have at a barbecue. Someone I spoke to was telling me about

dinner the night before with a lap band patient, who ate a tiny this and

that and had to stick to all soft foods.

I could probably work my way around to accepting that the band has to stay

in forever or else I gain back all the weight (plus some, as we know). I

have a lot of problems, though, with never having another steak, with not

being able to eat asparagus because it is too fibrous. I haven't been on a

diet in many years, but the thought of going to a supermarket and thinking,

" I can't eat this " and " I can't eat that " makes my skin crawl. I can't live

with the restrictions. The band is no doubt a wonderful thing for a lot of

people but I don't think i'm going to be one of them.

Dr. Ren, on the other hand, is smart, and capable, and personable, and

unhurried. I liked her very much. I spent a long time with her discussing

the DS in detail before we turned to the lap band. She is worth the trip

from anywhere.

Re: Re: Calling all Dr. Ren Patients!

>This is just a guess, but I think that Dr. Ren has

>just started to do the lap band surgery and so if you

>go to see her and you fit the criteria for getting it

>( 100 pounds overweight) than she will recommend it.

>She is looking to expand this part of her practice.

>If one is informed about the efficacy of the

>adjustable lap band procedure, one is less inclined to

>get it. I'd love to haveit IF it would work. But Dr.

>Gagner's literature stated patients lose only 40

>percent of the excess weight and Dr. Herron in his

>lecture at the informational meetings said it was more

>like 30 percent effective.

>Debra

>--- dreamweavergirlus@... wrote:

>> The surgeon makes their decision based upon what

>> they think think

>> is best for each individual. I think that they have

>> to feel that

>> you can make the neccessary lifestyle changes to

>> succeed at wls.

>> Gagner reccommended RNY to me. I personally didn't

>> feel that RNY

>> was for me and would make my life miserable. The

>> important thing to

>> remember here is that they surgeon reccommends the

>> type of surgery

>> that they feel you would do best with. There are

>> some factors in your

>> life and in your personality which the surgeon may

>> not cover which let

>> you know that perhaps another surgery might be

>> better for you. However

>> the two of you decide together what is best for you.

>> And in the end

>> you decide whether you can adhere to the new way of

>> life post-op. I

>> knew that I could not bear to be sick. I also knew

>> that I would

>> rather not eat than eat what I do not like. I knew

>> that RNY would

>> not allow me to eat what I wanted to eat so I would

>> not heal very

>> well because I would not eat. I also knew that if I

>> got sick regularly

>> from eating that I would stop eating. I also knew

>> several people who

>> has succeeded at the Atkins diet so I knew that a

>> high protein low fat

>> and low carb diet would help me lose weight. I also

>> knew that I wanted

>> a family and I have yet to meet a RNY patient who

>> has children and not

>> piled the pounds back on. I also knew that it would

>> easier to add

>> supplements to my diet than take them out. It has

>> not been easy with

>> DS. I am struggling every day to meet the protein

>> requirements due to

>> my hectic work schedule. Post-Op a lot of foods and

>> textures turn

>> my stomach upside down. As a CFO or a VP of a

>> company there would be

>> now way that I would have the time to do it.

>>

>> I think that the surgeons want to make sure you are

>> aware of how

>> difficult it is to get in 75g of protein a day and

>> eventually work up

>> to 150g. This is challenge on someone who access to

>> a kitchen all

>> day. But for someone who has to work 10+ hours a day

>> which many of do

>> it is a daily challenge. In this day of downsizing

>> and cut-backs we

>> are all doing what we can to stay employed. Combine

>> these factors with

>> wls and your increased nutritional needs and you

>> have a lot of work

>> cut out for you. This does not include family,

>> freinds,children, and

>> other obligations.

>>

>>

>> I am convinced that DS was the right way for me to

>> go. However,

>> everyone has to know how difficult it can be in the

>> early phases of

>> recovery. I think that everyone should try to get in

>> 75g of protein in

>> the course of day for a week. This would give you a

>> good idea of what

>> life will be like post-op.

>>

>>

>>

>> > Greetings.

>> >

>> > I'd like to hear from those of you who see/saw Dr.

>> Ren, especially

>> > men. I've heard some great things, and then some

>> hushed mentions

>> > of " a bad outcome " . Is this a taboo topic or can

>> someone shed some

>> > light on this?

>> >

>> > I originally thought Dr. Gagner was the answer,

>> but I'm hearing so

>> > many horror stories about Mt. Sinai that I'm

>> re-thinking.

>> >

>> > Arrrrrrggghhhhhhhh!

>> >

>> > Thanks everyone!

>>

>>

>>

>----------------------------------------------------------------------

>>

[Guest guest]

Dear Liane,

I met Bob Goldstein, the guy on the MSNBC Show Last Chance. Bob had

an RNY because he was an out of control non-compliant severe

diabetic. The RNY was felt to be the best surgery for him. Bob also

had a very tough recovery which they felt would have been alot worse

in his case if he had a DS. Bob is doing very well, his diabetes is

now under control because he can't have sugar (which he admits he

would have if he could) and he is very happy with his surgery of

choice. Bob has lost alot of weight, exercises like a fanatic now

and is very happy, healthy and looks fantastic.

There are different weight loss surgeries because different patients

have different needs. It is nice to feel that our surgery is the

best and yes it is; for us, but not for everyone.

Quite honestly, if I was a young women who wanted to have a baby or

just have more children, I would probably have had the LapBand just

because I personally would be afraid to have malabsorbtion during

pregnancy (just my opinion, I never spoke with a doctor about this).

I look at a case like Joe Frost where the poor man is eating more

protein then 2 people and suffers from such low protein numbers that

he has open sores. I would be afraid of something like that

happening to me while carrying a baby. I also would worry about

being low in the other important nutrients that are needed to help a

growing fetus. There are DSers that get iron transfusions and have a

hard time keeping their levels up and I would be afraid that a

pregnancy would not be a good thing if I had these issues.

Education and research are the key. There is something for everyone,

they just have to find it. Yes, the BPD/DS is a great surgery, just

not for everyone.

Jane J.

230/178 (-52 #)

Lap BPD/DS

April 26, 2001

Dr. Ren

> > Liane,

> > Another gal from another group I belong to said that dr ren tried

to

> talk

> > her out of the ds....that her BMI was not high enough (its 42)

and

> that the

> > recuperation for taking care of 3 kids was too much to justify

the

> surgery

> > and instead tried to tell her the RNY was much safer.....

> > Im really puzzled!

> >

> > Judie

[Guest guest]

> Bob is doing very well, his diabetes is

> now under control because he can't have sugar (which he admits he

> would have if he could) and he is very happy with his surgery of

> choice.

So strange though.. I got the DS because I wanted to be able to have

sugar if I wanted.. but now I don't want it.. I see his logic, but I

wonder if my experience is really so unusual? As long as he's happy &

healthy, that's all that matters.. but these surgeries are so wierd-

he got RnY to make sugar a bad experience, but still wants it.. I got

a DS so sugar wouldn't hurt me, but I don't want it anymore. Wish

there was some way to know preop how you'd change, yanno?

Just Musing-

Liane

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 8/7/01 1:46:07 PM, duodenalswitch writes:

<< Quite honestly, if I was a young women who wanted to have a baby or

just have more children, I would probably have had the LapBand just

because I personally would be afraid to have malabsorbtion during

pregnancy (just my opinion, I never spoke with a doctor about this).

I look at a case like Joe Frost where the poor man is eating more

protein then 2 people and suffers from such low protein numbers that

he has open sores. I would be afraid of something like that

happening to me while carrying a baby. I also would worry about

being low in the other important nutrients that are needed to help a

growing fetus. There are DSers that get iron transfusions and have a

hard time keeping their levels up and I would be afraid that a

pregnancy would not be a good thing if I had these issues.

>>

Jane J: I had the very same concerns since I would like to conceive again (I

have two children now). Dr. Gagner said that being pregnant after the DS

(and at least 18 months post-op) would not be a problem whatsoever. He said

that I had to have an OB/GYN that would understand the malapsorptive issues

involved and get regular labs done, etc. I even discussed adoption with my

husband and mentioned it to Dr. Gagner. He said that he expected me to have

a pretty normal pregnancy. I was concerned not only about nutritional issues

but the possibilities of getting a hernia or blockage and requiring emergency

surgery while pregnant. Once again, he did not seem to think that this would

be an issue.

I think of course that one would have to have perfect labs and no history of

nutritional/protein deficiencies in order to really seriously consider a

pregnancy as a post-op. Or, such deficiencies of course will have been

rectified and corrected before conceiving. It is a natural stress on the

body regardless but if one's body adjusted well to the DS then I think one's

pregnant body would, too.

All the best,

lap ds with gallbladder removal

January 25, 2001

six months post-op and still feelin' fabu!

pre-op: 307 lbs/bmi 45 (5' 9 1/2 " )

now: 228

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 8/7/01 1:46:07 PM, duodenalswitch writes:

<< I've had several

abdominal surgeries to date, which have been without

complications, so if my luck would just stay with me through this (and

God's watchful eye), then the hospital may not

even be a concern. And you're absolutely right about the aftercare; that

will be provided here at home, so again ...

a non-issue :-) >>

Donna: I would look into the private aides even if you have someone with

you. First of all, your husband would most likely want to get some

shuteye/rest and you could have a private aide for the late shift only when

he wouldn't be there. Also, these private aides have nice little tricks up

their sleeves - They know where clean bedding and gowns are located, for

example and stash some away for you. My aide always got breakfast for me

ahead of time off the cart before she left in the early am. She also

gave me sponge baths and the like.

Even with dh there, it may take a long time to get things like clean gowns,

etc. It's definately worth it, especially for the late evening and/or first

24 hours.

Wow - that's a long wait for Dr. . I don't know what the waiting time

is nowadays for Dr. Gagner or Dr. Herron - you might want to call and

compare. I know they can get pretty booked up as well.

If you have any questions about Mt. Sinai or my experience, please feel free

to write me at ruisha@...

all the best,

TEresa

lap ds with gallbladder removal

January 25, 2001

six months post-op and still feelin' fabu!

pre-op: 307 lbs/bmi 45 (5' 9 1/2 " )

now: 228

[Guest guest]

I ended up hanging up and immediately logged on and sent Dr. Herron a note.

I basically told him that I certainly

don't need to take a shitty attitude like that from insurance coordinator

and that if the patients are so inconsequential

to them that I could just as easily cart my fat ass to Georgia to an

equally competent surgeon. I told him if he felt

differently, to please respond, otherwise, I'd pursue another surgeon.

Well, then I called Dr. 's office in Georgia, only to find out there

is at least a 2 month waiting list just to get a

consult and that the surgery would be done sometime next year. I don't

want to wait 6+ months to do this. I don't

want to jeopardize my health by going to just anyone ... but I don't want

to wait 6 months or more, either. I actually

feel like just sobbing.

I contacted Dr. 's office in Winston-Salem, and there's a

possibility he could do the surgery lap on me

since my BMI is 45 or 46 (good day/bad day sort of thing :-) ), but he

certainly is more comfortable with doing it

open.

Talk to me ... tell me what you think.... am I being too impatient ?

Should I pursue NY and disregard what that

creep said and go around him ?? Have you heard anything about Dr.

?? Have you heard rave reviews

about any surgeons I haven't mentioned ?? I'm appreciate anyone's input>>>>>

{{{{Donna}}}}: What a horrible day, I agree! Man, Daryl must have been in

some mood! I never talked with him until I was getting my insurance

approval submitted, so I don't know what that would be like. I certainly

don't see anything wrong with trying to get some information beforehand,

especially with all this talk about Dr. Gagner not taking most insurance

policies nowadays, etc.

With a bmi of 45-46, I HIGHLY DOUBT that you'd be a candidate for a two part

lap DS. Those are given to patients who have a marked increased risk with a

lap DS - usually those with a bmi in the 60's (perhaps high 50's too, I'm not

totally sure). I know my bmi was 45 and this wasn't even MENTIONED as a

possibility. I don't know where Daryl got that information unless he was

merely trying to scare you off of choosing Mt. Sinai? That would really piss

me off!

I think it is pretty inevitable that you may have to wait for a consult with

the most reputable surgeons. It is unfortunate, but they are booked solid.

I'm not sure what the wait for Dr. Herron would be or even Dr. Gagner.

But, I made my consultation in Sept 2000 for November (so I had a wait of a

few months). I've heard that others called the office and got earlier

consults because of cancellations, etc. but it didn't really bother me that I

had to wait. I saw it as an opportunity to do more research and get used to

the idea. LOL

Then, my surgery was scheduled for January 25, 2001 (from a November 15, 2000

consult date). I could have had an earlier date, especially if I informed

them that I could go in at a moment's notice, but once again I wanted to plan

ahead and wait.

I totally understand your desire to get this done YESTERDAY and that you are

extremely frustrated with the bureaucratic bs, etc. I would say: Make a

consult with both Dr. and Dr. Gagner/Herron NOW. That way you won't

keep waiting. I did this -- made appointments with Dr. Gagner, another Dr.

At Lennox Hill (who only did laparoscopic RNY), Dr. Macura (on Staten Island,

which is closer to my home, but he only does open and I didn't realize he did

the DS anyway. I thought he only did the RNY) and Dr. Driscoll (assistant to

Dr. Goodman, who took my insurance since Dr. Goodman didn't take it anymore!

LOL)... Then, I read more and decided the DS was for me. CAncelled all the

other consults and stuck with Dr. Gagner. For me, he was the only way to go.

I didn't know about Dr. Ren at NYU until later. I would check her out. Most

of her patients rave about her bedside manner, accomodations at the hospital,

her skills, etc. She did train under Dr. Gagner. Dr. in

Portland, Oregon just opened a practice and she trained under Dr. Gagner as

well. I've heard her office is pretty busy, though. There are also fine

doctors in California (Dr. kershinian, spelling -and another guy - I'm

drawing a blank sorry).. Dr. Hess in Ohio but he only does open, I think..

Dr. Elairny in Kansas? Not sure where he is. I would look on the

duodenalswitch.com website for lap surgeons who perform the DS.

Hopefully Dr. Herron will respond and clear things up for you. I've heard

he's very personable and responds to e-mails promptly. I would make

appointments now so you have a spot reserved, check out other surgeons (like

you just did - asking people for their experience/suggestions, etc.). Six

months is a long time to wait -- but this is for the REST of your life. If

you want the surgery done laparoscopically, then be sure you are totally

comfortable with your surgeon's experience and skill. I was 110 pct

confident in Dr. Gagner. Sure, I did (and still do) have headaches with the

staff and the hospital stay wasn't great by any standards but I would wait

six months for that man anyday. I personally would wait for the surgeon

of choice, however long it may take. To me, picking the right surgeon is one

of the most crucial aspects of the surgery process. You want to feel totally

confident and secure in your decision. And, if you want laparoscopic

surgery, I would go with some of the best lap surgeons in the country,

especially since you mentioned you've had previous abdominal surgeries. I

can only speak for Dr. Gagner and I know that he honestly has seen some of

the most complex situations and has been able to perform the surgery

laparoscopically despite this.

In the end, it is up to you. I'm sure that the best surgeons are well worth

the wait, however frustrating. Other surgeons may not be as popular or

experienced (in terms of no of operations performed) but are still excellent.

I hope everything works out for you! Let me know what Dr. Herron says!

I haven't heard of Dr. , but anyone who says they feel more

comfortable with an open surgery probably would NOT be the best surgeon to

insist on a laparoscopic surgery with. This is ESPECIALLY true if you've had

previous abdominal surgeries since there may be extensive adhesions/internal

scarring. I don't think that person would have the experience and skill

necessary for lap surgery. I think it is totally different than traditional

open surgery and many surgeons may be 'trying their hand at it' or offering

it due to patient demand but may not be the best choice to perform it. Not to

say they are not skilled at open surgery, but that you don't want to be one

of the first forays into lapwork!

all the best and hugs,

lap ds with gallbladder removal

January 25, 2001

six months post-op and still feelin' fabu!

pre-op: 307 lbs/bmi 45 (5' 9 1/2 " )

now: 228

[Guest guest]

Donna....how about Dr. Elariny in Arlington, Virginia? I had my surgery on

April 30th and think he is great.....

Bobbi-jo

[Guest guest]

,

I have just had the most discouraging afternoon. I called this Darryl

guy, Drs Gagner/Herrons' insurance

person .. Dr. Herron told me (via e-mail) to call one number to make an

appt. and to call Darryl for insurance info.

Well, I called Darryl first. The 'first impression' he made was the worst

I have had of anyone .... he didn't answer with

the name of the medical practice ... had a radio absolutely blaring in the

background, and had the 'attitude' from hell.

He told me they will not deal with people whose insurance carrier is Cigna

unless I come to the consultation with an

authorization from them to do the surgery. I tried to explain to him (when

he wasn't cutting me off), that this is not normal

practice and that NO insurance company is going to give a carte blanche

note basically saying ... go ahead .. have

whatever you want done and by whom, and we'll cover it all. He then

started spitting out codes and told me to bring

something from Cigna stating they'd cover those codes .;. he hadn't

listened to a word I'd said. Then he told me that

Cigna will not cover any insurance anywhere if it is done LAP ... I told

him he was dead wrong about that and that just

ensued in an arguement. Then he tried to tell me I'd have to make numerous

pre-op trips to NY and I told him Dr.

Herron told me just one ... I could do my consult up there and have my

pre-op work done at home. Darryl said

absolutely not. He said I'd have to have ... GET THIS ... the first part

of the surgery done and then return 6 to 7

months later for the second half .... DO YOU BELIEVE THAT !!! When I told

him he didn't know what he was talking

about, he just got snottier and snottier.

I ended up hanging up and immediately logged on and sent Dr. Herron a note.

I basically told him that I certainly

don't need to take a shitty attitude like that from insurance coordinator

and that if the patients are so inconsequential

to them that I could just as easily cart my fat ass to Georgia to an

equally competent surgeon. I told him if he felt

differently, to please respond, otherwise, I'd pursue another surgeon.

Well, then I called Dr. 's office in Georgia, only to find out there

is at least a 2 month waiting list just to get a

consult and that the surgery would be done sometime next year. I don't

want to wait 6+ months to do this. I don't

want to jeopardize my health by going to just anyone ... but I don't want

to wait 6 months or more, either. I actually

feel like just sobbing.

I contacted Dr. 's office in Winston-Salem, and there's a

possibility he could do the surgery lap on me

since my BMI is 45 or 46 (good day/bad day sort of thing :-) ), but he

certainly is more comfortable with doing it

open.

Talk to me ... tell me what you think.... am I being too impatient ?

Should I pursue NY and disregard what that

creep said and go around him ?? Have you heard anything about Dr.

?? Have you heard rave reviews

about any surgeons I haven't mentioned ?? I'm appreciate anyone's input

.....

Feeling quite hopeless,

Donna

Donna C. Joostema

(T/L) 444-7949

WES Build Support

email: joostema@...

ruisha@...

To: duodenalswitch

08/07/01 04:25 cc:

PM Subject: Re: Re:

Calling all Dr. Ren Patients!

Please respond

to

duodenalswitch

In a message dated 8/7/01 1:46:07 PM, duodenalswitch

writes:

<< I've had several

abdominal surgeries to date, which have been without

complications, so if my luck would just stay with me through this (and

God's watchful eye), then the hospital may not

even be a concern. And you're absolutely right about the aftercare; that

will be provided here at home, so again ...

a non-issue :-) >>

Donna: I would look into the private aides even if you have someone with

you. First of all, your husband would most likely want to get some

shuteye/rest and you could have a private aide for the late shift only when

he wouldn't be there. Also, these private aides have nice little tricks up

their sleeves - They know where clean bedding and gowns are located, for

example and stash some away for you. My aide always got breakfast for

me

ahead of time off the cart before she left in the early am. She also

gave me sponge baths and the like.

Even with dh there, it may take a long time to get things like clean gowns,

etc. It's definately worth it, especially for the late evening and/or

first

24 hours.

Wow - that's a long wait for Dr. . I don't know what the waiting time

is nowadays for Dr. Gagner or Dr. Herron - you might want to call and

compare. I know they can get pretty booked up as well.

If you have any questions about Mt. Sinai or my experience, please feel

free

to write me at ruisha@...

all the best,

TEresa

lap ds with gallbladder removal

January 25, 2001

six months post-op and still feelin' fabu!

pre-op: 307 lbs/bmi 45 (5' 9 1/2 " )

now: 228

----------------------------------------------------------------------

[Guest guest]

It seems interesting to me that Dr. Ren is following the latest stuff

rather than sticking with the DS as her primary procedure. It seems

like she is more interested in being on the bleeding edge then doing

the procedure that is best for the patient (I am speculating here).>>>>

Well, I can see your point, -- but I don't think that she's just

marketing it for the sake of marketing. She's in a very competitive area

here in NYC, with some of the best laparoscopic surgeons having set up shop

in uptown Manhattan at Mt. Sinai! :) I can't speak for her but she could

very well believe that this procedure is a viable and attractive alternative

and that many patients would be interested in it.

<<<<<Dr. Anthone for example does 100% DS and really feels strongly about

the superiority of the procedure.

I tend to think that DS suregons should concentrate on the DS given

they lack of available surgeons that will do it. There are plenty of

good RNY surgeons in every corner of the country. Because there are

so few DS surgeons they are all backed up to one degree or another.

It seems like a waste for a properly trained DS surgeon to spend

her/his time on a simpler procedure.>>>>>

Once again, I can see where this is logical and justified, but there are

great DS surgeons who ALSO perform other procedures. I do NOT think the DS

is the best procedure for everyone. I think that, overall, it is ideally the

best procedure for losing weight and keeping it off longterm. BUT, it also

requires a lot of patient education and commitment. Also, some patients may

not be prepared for the nutritional risks and post-op lifestyle. So, even if

I think the procedure is superior in many ways, I think that it is not

necessarily suitable for everyone (either by surgeon decision, pre-existing

medical conditions and/or patient choice/preference).

For example, Dr. Gagner (who pioneered the lap DS) does the DS, RNY and even

VGB (although I mainly hear of people having the RNY or DS with him). I think

he is personally VERY pro-DS but he doesn't just offer it to everyone who

walks through the office. I requested it and came fully prepared to show

that I was knowledgeable about the procedure. He got an earful. ROFL He

didn't have any qualms about me having the DS with a starting bmi of 45 but

I've known others on whom he's performed an RNY at the same BMI, above or

below.

All the best,

lap ds with gallbladder removal

Dr. Gagner/Mt. Sinai/NYC

january 25, 2001

six months post-op and still feelin' fabu!

pre-op: 307 lbs/bmi 45 (5 '9 1/2 " )

now: 228

[Guest guest]

It seems interesting to me that Dr. Ren is following the latest stuff

rather than sticking with the DS as her primary procedure. It seems

like she is more interested in being on the bleeding edge then doing

the procedure that is best for the patient (I am speculating here).>>>>

Well, I can see your point, -- but I don't think that she's just

marketing it for the sake of marketing. She's in a very competitive area

here in NYC, with some of the best laparoscopic surgeons having set up shop

in uptown Manhattan at Mt. Sinai! :) I can't speak for her but she could

very well believe that this procedure is a viable and attractive alternative

and that many patients would be interested in it.

<<<<<Dr. Anthone for example does 100% DS and really feels strongly about

the superiority of the procedure.

I tend to think that DS suregons should concentrate on the DS given

they lack of available surgeons that will do it. There are plenty of

good RNY surgeons in every corner of the country. Because there are

so few DS surgeons they are all backed up to one degree or another.

It seems like a waste for a properly trained DS surgeon to spend

her/his time on a simpler procedure.>>>>>

Once again, I can see where this is logical and justified, but there are

great DS surgeons who ALSO perform other procedures. I do NOT think the DS

is the best procedure for everyone. I think that, overall, it is ideally the

best procedure for losing weight and keeping it off longterm. BUT, it also

requires a lot of patient education and commitment. Also, some patients may

not be prepared for the nutritional risks and post-op lifestyle. So, even if

I think the procedure is superior in many ways, I think that it is not

necessarily suitable for everyone (either by surgeon decision, pre-existing

medical conditions and/or patient choice/preference).

For example, Dr. Gagner (who pioneered the lap DS) does the DS, RNY and even

VGB (although I mainly hear of people having the RNY or DS with him). I think

he is personally VERY pro-DS but he doesn't just offer it to everyone who

walks through the office. I requested it and came fully prepared to show

that I was knowledgeable about the procedure. He got an earful. ROFL He

didn't have any qualms about me having the DS with a starting bmi of 45 but

I've known others on whom he's performed an RNY at the same BMI, above or

below.

All the best,

lap ds with gallbladder removal

Dr. Gagner/Mt. Sinai/NYC

january 25, 2001

six months post-op and still feelin' fabu!

pre-op: 307 lbs/bmi 45 (5 '9 1/2 " )

now: 228

[Guest guest]

If I may interject: I am a patient of Dr. Ren's, 3 weeks post-op and

thoroughly satisfied. My surgery took 6 hours, a little longer than norm but

Ren removed my gall bladder, appendix, and repaired a massive hiatal hernia.

The important thing was that everything went smoothly and uneventfully. I

left the hospital on the third day and was off ALL pain medication within

the week (even managed a Broadway play less than a week after discharge). So

far, all is well. My original surgery was scheduled for 6/26 (after an

initial consult 3/26 - the delay was my choice, I wanted to finish out the

school year) but was postponed due to irregularities in my pre-op X-rays.

Dr. Ren arranged the consult with the thoracic surgeon who gave me the

all-clear (thank G-d!) and, on the spot made the new appointment for July

13th. I HIGHLY recommend her and the service you receive from her staff.

Paperwork goes out a little slower due to the resignation of her insurance

facilitator after a death in the family, but the remaining staff is still

efficient and, most of all, courteous! The care at NYU post-op was

excellent; there was no need for private care. All in all, a positive

experience and I'M FEELING GREAT!!!

The one thing you should be aware of though is that Dr. Ren is very high on

the Lap-Band procedure now; she recently observed and participated in a

number of procedures with an expert (Dr. Fielding) in Australia. She

explains it all in a posting she made to NYUMC-thinforlife

on Mon.8/6. But, remember, enthusiastic as she is about this new procedure

as she is, she is an expert at the DS and will perform the procedure that

you want.

Good luck to you in whatever course you may decide to follow.

Marcia

> Re: Re: Calling all Dr. Ren Patients!

>

>

> I ended up hanging up and immediately logged on and sent Dr.

> Herron a note.

>

> I basically told him that I certainly

>

> don't need to take a shitty attitude like that from insurance coordinator

>

> and that if the patients are so inconsequential

>

> to them that I could just as easily cart my fat ass to Georgia to an

>

> equally competent surgeon. I told him if he felt

>

> differently, to please respond, otherwise, I'd pursue another surgeon.

>

>

> Well, then I called Dr. 's office in Georgia, only to find out there

>

> is at least a 2 month waiting list just to get a

>

> consult and that the surgery would be done sometime next year. I don't

>

> want to wait 6+ months to do this. I don't

>

> want to jeopardize my health by going to just anyone ... but I don't want

>

> to wait 6 months or more, either. I actually

>

> feel like just sobbing.

>

>

> I contacted Dr. 's office in Winston-Salem, and there's a

>

> possibility he could do the surgery lap on me

>

> since my BMI is 45 or 46 (good day/bad day sort of thing :-) ), but he

>

> certainly is more comfortable with doing it

>

> open.

>

>

> Talk to me ... tell me what you think.... am I being too impatient ?

>

> Should I pursue NY and disregard what that

>

> creep said and go around him ?? Have you heard anything about

> Dr.

>

> ?? Have you heard rave reviews

>

> about any surgeons I haven't mentioned ?? I'm appreciate

> anyone's input>>>>>

>

> {{{{Donna}}}}: What a horrible day, I agree! Man, Daryl must

> have been in

> some mood! I never talked with him until I was getting my insurance

> approval submitted, so I don't know what that would be like. I certainly

> don't see anything wrong with trying to get some information beforehand,

> especially with all this talk about Dr. Gagner not taking most insurance

> policies nowadays, etc.

>

> With a bmi of 45-46, I HIGHLY DOUBT that you'd be a candidate for

> a two part

> lap DS. Those are given to patients who have a marked increased

> risk with a

> lap DS - usually those with a bmi in the 60's (perhaps high 50's

> too, I'm not

> totally sure). I know my bmi was 45 and this wasn't even MENTIONED as a

> possibility. I don't know where Daryl got that information unless he was

> merely trying to scare you off of choosing Mt. Sinai? That would

> really piss

> me off!

>

> I think it is pretty inevitable that you may have to wait for a

> consult with

> the most reputable surgeons. It is unfortunate, but they are

> booked solid.

> I'm not sure what the wait for Dr. Herron would be or even

> Dr. Gagner.

> But, I made my consultation in Sept 2000 for November (so I had a

> wait of a

> few months). I've heard that others called the office and got earlier

> consults because of cancellations, etc. but it didn't really

> bother me that I

> had to wait. I saw it as an opportunity to do more research and

> get used to

> the idea. LOL

>

> Then, my surgery was scheduled for January 25, 2001 (from a

> November 15, 2000

> consult date). I could have had an earlier date, especially if I

> informed

> them that I could go in at a moment's notice, but once again I

> wanted to plan

> ahead and wait.

>

> I totally understand your desire to get this done YESTERDAY and

> that you are

> extremely frustrated with the bureaucratic bs, etc. I would say: Make a

> consult with both Dr. and Dr. Gagner/Herron NOW. That way

> you won't

> keep waiting. I did this -- made appointments with Dr. Gagner,

> another Dr.

> At Lennox Hill (who only did laparoscopic RNY), Dr. Macura (on

> Staten Island,

> which is closer to my home, but he only does open and I didn't

> realize he did

> the DS anyway. I thought he only did the RNY) and Dr. Driscoll

> (assistant to

> Dr. Goodman, who took my insurance since Dr. Goodman didn't take

> it anymore!

> LOL)... Then, I read more and decided the DS was for me.

> CAncelled all the

> other consults and stuck with Dr. Gagner. For me, he was the

> only way to go.

>

>

> I didn't know about Dr. Ren at NYU until later. I would check

> her out. Most

> of her patients rave about her bedside manner, accomodations at

> the hospital,

> her skills, etc. She did train under Dr. Gagner. Dr. in

> Portland, Oregon just opened a practice and she trained under Dr.

> Gagner as

> well. I've heard her office is pretty busy, though. There are also fine

> doctors in California (Dr. kershinian, spelling -and another guy - I'm

> drawing a blank sorry).. Dr. Hess in Ohio but he only does open,

> I think..

> Dr. Elairny in Kansas? Not sure where he is. I would look on the

> duodenalswitch.com website for lap surgeons who perform the DS.

>

> Hopefully Dr. Herron will respond and clear things up for you.

> I've heard

> he's very personable and responds to e-mails promptly. I would make

> appointments now so you have a spot reserved, check out other

> surgeons (like

> you just did - asking people for their experience/suggestions,

> etc.). Six

> months is a long time to wait -- but this is for the REST of your

> life. If

> you want the surgery done laparoscopically, then be sure you are totally

> comfortable with your surgeon's experience and skill. I was 110 pct

> confident in Dr. Gagner. Sure, I did (and still do) have

> headaches with the

> staff and the hospital stay wasn't great by any standards but I

> would wait

> six months for that man anyday. I personally would wait for

> the surgeon

> of choice, however long it may take. To me, picking the right

> surgeon is one

> of the most crucial aspects of the surgery process. You want to

> feel totally

> confident and secure in your decision. And, if you want laparoscopic

> surgery, I would go with some of the best lap surgeons in the country,

> especially since you mentioned you've had previous abdominal

> surgeries. I

> can only speak for Dr. Gagner and I know that he honestly has

> seen some of

> the most complex situations and has been able to perform the surgery

> laparoscopically despite this.

>

> In the end, it is up to you. I'm sure that the best surgeons are

> well worth

> the wait, however frustrating. Other surgeons may not be as popular or

> experienced (in terms of no of operations performed) but are

> still excellent.

> I hope everything works out for you! Let me know what Dr. Herron says!

>

> I haven't heard of Dr. , but anyone who says they feel more

> comfortable with an open surgery probably would NOT be the best

> surgeon to

> insist on a laparoscopic surgery with. This is ESPECIALLY true if

> you've had

> previous abdominal surgeries since there may be extensive

> adhesions/internal

> scarring. I don't think that person would have the experience and skill

> necessary for lap surgery. I think it is totally different than

> traditional

> open surgery and many surgeons may be 'trying their hand at it'

> or offering

> it due to patient demand but may not be the best choice to

> perform it. Not to

> say they are not skilled at open surgery, but that you don't want

> to be one

> of the first forays into lapwork!

>

>

> all the best and hugs,

>

> lap ds with gallbladder removal

> January 25, 2001

>

> six months post-op and still feelin' fabu!

>

> pre-op: 307 lbs/bmi 45 (5' 9 1/2 " )

> now: 228

>

> ----------------------------------------------------------------------

>