Guest guest Posted August 8, 2001 Report Share Posted August 8, 2001 When I was about 12 I got caught in a riptide at the beach, it was frighteningly powerful and I was getting so exhausted trying to fight it that I was terrified I'd drown. Suddenly I heard the voice of the lifeguard who had taught me to swim years before telling me to stop fighting and swim at an angle. I did and was soon free of the riptide. I never met the lifeguard again but I still think of him often and thank him for my life. Last year I got a death sentence. After a lifetime of obesity I was diagnosed with diabetes, high blood pressure and other obesity related diseases which had killed my parents and my sister. It felt a lot like the riptide, I was overwhelmed, exhausted and terrified. Then I stumbled across the DS website and I found this message board and once again I heard lifeguards telling me how to save myself. Their names were and Theresa. They spend enormous amounts of time and effort giving total strangers the tools they need to save their lives and I'll always think of them and thank them for my life. Reading Nicks posts and those of some others who seem to think their mere existence gives them the right to bully , Theresa and other posters who don't meet their lofty standards and the right to be abusive to those they disagree with I wonder it they also kick sand on the lifeguards at the beach. On my personal scale I'm weighing people who give me consistent lifesaving information vs the occasional semi-amusing display of semi- wit and frankly I don't give a rat's hindquarters if the sand kickers are satisfied here or not. Just my two cents which is what most people's opinion is worth, Lee Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 8, 2001 Report Share Posted August 8, 2001 Very eloquently stated Lee! Thank You! Lisbeth leescott9@... wrote: When I was about 12 I got caught in a riptide at the beach, it was frighteningly powerful and I was getting so exhausted trying to fight it that I was terrified I'd drown. Suddenly I heard the voice of the lifeguard who had taught me to swim years before telling me to stop fighting and swim at an angle. I did and was soon free of the riptide. I never met the lifeguard again but I still think of him often and thank him for my life. Last year I got a death sentence. After a lifetime of obesity I was diagnosed with diabetes, high blood pressure and other obesity related diseases which had killed my parents and my sister. It felt a lot like the riptide, I was overwhelmed, exhausted and terrified. Then I stumbled across the DS website and I found this message board and once again I heard lifeguards telling me how to save myself. Their names were and Theresa. They spend enormous amounts of time and effort giving total strangers the tools they need to save their lives and I'll always think of them and thank them for my life. Reading Nicks posts and those of some others who seem to think their mere existence gives them the right to bully , Theresa and other posters who don't meet their lofty standards and the right to be abusive to those they disagree with I wonder it they also kick sand on the lifeguards at the beach. On my personal scale I'm weighing people who give me consistent lifesaving information vs the occasional semi-amusing display of semi- wit and frankly I don't give a rat's hindquarters if the sand kickers are satisfied here or not. Just my two cents which is what most people's opinion is worth, Lee ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 8, 2001 Report Share Posted August 8, 2001 Kudos, Lee. Sharon in KY --- leescott9@... wrote: > When I was about 12 I got caught in a riptide at the > beach, it was > frighteningly powerful and I was getting so > exhausted trying to fight > it that I was terrified I'd drown. Suddenly I heard > the voice of the > lifeguard who had taught me to swim years before > telling me to stop > fighting and swim at an angle. I did and was soon > free of the > riptide. I never met the lifeguard again but I still > think of him > often and thank him for my life. > > Last year I got a death sentence. After a lifetime > of obesity I was > diagnosed with diabetes, high blood pressure and > other obesity > related diseases which had killed my parents and my > sister. It felt a > lot like the riptide, I was overwhelmed, exhausted > and terrified. > > Then I stumbled across the DS website and I found > this message board > and once again I heard lifeguards telling me how to > save myself. > Their names were and Theresa. They spend > enormous amounts of > time and effort giving total strangers the tools > they need to save > their lives and I'll always think of them and thank > them for my life. > > Reading Nicks posts and those of some others who > seem to think their > mere existence gives them the right to bully > , Theresa and > other posters who don't meet their lofty standards > and the right to > be abusive to those they disagree with I wonder it > they also kick > sand on the lifeguards at the beach. > > On my personal scale I'm weighing people who give me > consistent > lifesaving information vs the occasional > semi-amusing display of semi- > wit and frankly I don't give a rat's hindquarters if > the sand kickers > are satisfied here or not. > > Just my two cents which is what most people's > opinion is worth, > Lee > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 9, 2001 Report Share Posted August 9, 2001 > Reading Nicks posts and those of some others who > seem to think their mere existence gives them the > right to bully . . . other posters who don't meet their > lofty standards and the right to be abusive to those > they disagree with I wonder it they also kick sand on > the lifeguards at the beach. > > On my personal scale I'm weighing people who give me > consistent lifesaving information vs the occasional semi- > amusing display of semi-wit and frankly I don't give a rat's > hindquarters if the sand kickers are satisfied here or not. > > Just my two cents which is what most people's opinion is worth, > Lee Lee; Your unkind comments about Nick assumes facts not in evidence. I have had far more experience with him than you have and I know that his intention is much more altruistic than you realize. I am under the impression that you are lashing out at him in an effort to support and Theresa. I believe that your intentions are honorable but and Theresa have both had plenty of experience with Nick. I think they both see Nick for what he is: a very intelligent, quick witted person who expresses himself often times, in a sardonic tone. Is he mean? No, not really. Is he helpful? Usually. If you ever have the opportunity to exchange private email with Nick, I believe you will see him for who he really is. I too was put off by him when I first read some of his posts during a previous uproar. Then, quite unexpectedly, he wrote to me about an issue that he saw me post several times. I am so lucky that he did. It gave me the opportunity to discover what a thoughtful, caring, and bright man he is. I doubt that Nick gives a " rat's hindquarters " whether everyone on this list approves of him. Your writing was extremely competent. Do you think your life guard would have let some smart aleck kid drown just because the kid had offended you as Nick seems to have done? Please give everyone on this list a chance. Right now, the list seems to be frequented by people who really care about the DS and about reaching out to others. gobo Lap DGB/Dr. July 9, 2001 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 9, 2001 Report Share Posted August 9, 2001 It's nice to see you back on the list; I was worried about you. --stella Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 9, 2001 Report Share Posted August 9, 2001 In a message dated 8/9/01 7:17:59 PM, duodenalswitch writes: << > You make it sound like I have physically beaten Mother . >> Hey, Nick - NOW you're getting personal -- this was my nickname in Catholic school, you know! ROFL All tongue in cheek here! I do agree with Lee and I'm glad he spoke up about his feelings. I think many on the list share it. I also agree that Nick is a valuable resource and *may* just be trying to be extremely sarcastic. His intentions may not be malevolent but I hope he can also understand that we don't WANT to start or incite another flamewar about censorship, 'niceness' and such since it really tore the group up not in the distant past. Hopefully we can come to an understanding here. Nick, we aren't saying (at least I'm not saying LOL) that you are a total ass or anything like this --- Just that constant comments about being 'nice', etc. are getting annoying and can be potentially detrimental to the lists' well being. Not to say you should never post or are never 'allowed' to be sardonic but I hope you can see where the niceness stuff can get old??? :) All the best, lap ds with gallbladder removal January 25, 2001 Dr. Gagner/Mt. Sinai/NYC pre-op: 307 lbs/bmi 45 now: 228 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 9, 2001 Report Share Posted August 9, 2001 In a message dated 8/9/01 7:17:59 PM, duodenalswitch writes: << > Joe Frost already left this list in part because of Nick's > anti-nice crusade. Are you absolutely positiive that Nick is single-handedly responsible for Joe's choice of groups? I happen to know Joe and it is my opinion that Joe does not allow other individuals to determine where he spends his time. I know for a fact that Joe and Nick are BOTH valuable and welcome members of another group. >> Joe is his own person and surely makes decisions based on his feelings not out of sheer intimidation by anyone else. I certainly consider him a valid member of this list whether he posts/reads or not. And, Lee did not say 'singlehandedly', he commented that Nick was part of the reasons why Joe (and others) decided to leave. If one searches the archives you'll see that he did post that he was sick of the anti-censorship campaign and all the issues surrounding Deb that he was signing off (for now?). There is another list wlss... I can't remember the full address. I've been a member of that group for a long time but all the sudden a few people (Gobo, I do believe you were one of them) were touting it as the 'alternate' to this list and that people who were sick of bickering (and/or of censorship). they should just get out of here and patronize that list. I emphasized several times that people should feel free to join whatever lists they want but there does not have to be any 'choice' of lists and people can be members of both (as I am). It got pretty nasty --- From repetitive and extensive censorship lists being posted continuously to people calling for an essential boycott of the duodenalswitch list in favor of another list where 'the free and brave (and nice?)' people congregate... I can totally understand where Nick's 'niceness' posts can be seen in isolation as being merely sarcastic but the history behind it is what puts some people on edge. <<<<<I believe that Nick is not bullying; Nick is keeping us on our toes. The thing that bothers me is the eruption of unnecessary negativity. One of the best lessons my Mothers taught me is to just ignore someone behaving in a way that bothers me. If Nick or anyone else bothers you, I suggest you stop reading their posts and ignore the ones you've read. This group is not supposed to be about controlling others. We're all here to support those we can.>>>>> I think almost everyone who has been on this list has gotten aggrevated at one point or another and/or responded to someone's post thinking it was a personal assault or disagreed with someone. Ideally, yeah - if a particular person offends just 'ignore' them. But, if Nick is allowed to post how he feels then people should also be allowed to respond if they disagree. Hopefully the dialogue will result in a deeper understanding on all sides and perhaps compromise on all sides so that we can come to a mutual understanding? all the best, Noverr-Chin co-moderator lap ds with gallbladder removal January 25, 2001 six months post-op and still feelin' fabu Pre-op: 307 lbs/bmi 45 now: 228 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 9, 2001 Report Share Posted August 9, 2001 Gobo, The " facts in evidence " to me is that Nick is using this list for an ongoing rant about a decision made by the list owner with which he disagrees. Personally from what I've read on the list archives I also disagree with the decision but it wasn't my (or Nick's) decision to make nor was it made by or Theresa who Nick keeps pounding about it. The stated purpose of this list is to obtain information about the DS and having read the list archives as well as current messages, I've obtained far more information about the DS from and Theresa than I have from Nick and the rest of their critics. It's ironic that you accuse me of " lashing out " and making " unkind comments " because I object to Nick's ongoing anti-nice crusade - given his apparent distain for civility toward others I would think he and his supporters would be more concerned that my method of expressing myself isn't sufficiently rude. But then I learned long ago that the class clown and his audience rarely find it nearly as amusing when the " joke " is on them. >Do you think your life guard would have let some smart aleck kid drown just because the kid had offended you as Nick seems to have done?< Should people be condemed to death because they offend me? Well gee Gobo talk about demonizing people you don't know because you don't agree with them. Of course the lifeguard should save the smart aleck's life but he should also ban the smart aleck from the beach if his actions are putting the lifeguard or other swimmers at risk. Joe Frost already left this list in part because of Nick's anti-nice crusade. is talking about suspending work on the website because she is overwhelmed and doesn't have the time to coddle or deal with absurd disruptions from people who are supposed to be adults and supposed to here to get information about a lifesaving operation. If that is the price of Nick showing off how clever he is it is way too high a price for me. As for the personal testimonials to what a great guy Nick is they aren't necessary, he might very well be the most fantastic human ever to walk the internet but I still think his bullying the moderators of this list is inappropriate and immature. Lee > > > Reading Nicks posts and those of some others who > > seem to think their mere existence gives them the > > right to bully . . . other posters who don't meet their > > lofty standards and the right to be abusive to those > > they disagree with I wonder it they also kick sand on > > the lifeguards at the beach. > > > > On my personal scale I'm weighing people who give me > > consistent lifesaving information vs the occasional semi- > > amusing display of semi-wit and frankly I don't give a rat's > > hindquarters if the sand kickers are satisfied here or not. > > > > Just my two cents which is what most people's opinion is worth, > > Lee > > Lee; > Your unkind comments about Nick assumes facts not in > evidence. I have had far more experience with him than > you have and I know that his intention is much more > altruistic than you realize. > > I am under the impression that you are lashing out at him > in an effort to support and Theresa. I believe that your > intentions are honorable but and Theresa have > both had plenty of experience with Nick. I think they both > see Nick for what he is: a very intelligent, quick witted > person who expresses himself often times, in a sardonic > tone. Is he mean? No, not really. Is he helpful? Usually. > > If you ever have the opportunity to exchange private > email with Nick, I believe you will see him for who he > really is. I too was put off by him when I first read some > of his posts during a previous uproar. Then, quite > unexpectedly, he wrote to me about an issue that he > saw me post several times. I am so lucky that he did. > It gave me the opportunity to discover what a thoughtful, > caring, and bright man he is. > > I doubt that Nick gives a " rat's hindquarters " whether > everyone on this list approves of him. > > Your writing was extremely competent. Do you think your > life guard would have let some smart aleck kid drown just > because the kid had offended you as Nick seems to have > done? > > Please give everyone on this list a chance. Right now, > the list seems to be frequented by people who really care > about the DS and about reaching out to others. > > gobo > Lap DGB/Dr. > July 9, 2001 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 9, 2001 Report Share Posted August 9, 2001 I'm gonna agree here. I did not know Nick from Adam, yet he contacted me and gave me INVALUABLE information and now I have a surgery date on 9/5/01. Like him or not, he has a reason for being here just as and the others. Each of us bring a unique quality to this list and I would encourage everyone to remember that next time you feel the urge to become a fire bug. HUGZ to you all. Liz Oceanside, CA. Pre-op/Surgery date 9/5/01 Dr. K. > > > Reading Nicks posts and those of some others who > > seem to think their mere existence gives them the > > right to bully . . . other posters who don't meet their > > lofty standards and the right to be abusive to those > > they disagree with I wonder it they also kick sand on > > the lifeguards at the beach. > > > > On my personal scale I'm weighing people who give me > > consistent lifesaving information vs the occasional semi- > > amusing display of semi-wit and frankly I don't give a rat's > > hindquarters if the sand kickers are satisfied here or not. > > > > Just my two cents which is what most people's opinion is worth, > > Lee > > Lee; > Your unkind comments about Nick assumes facts not in > evidence. I have had far more experience with him than > you have and I know that his intention is much more > altruistic than you realize. > > I am under the impression that you are lashing out at him > in an effort to support and Theresa. I believe that your > intentions are honorable but and Theresa have > both had plenty of experience with Nick. I think they both > see Nick for what he is: a very intelligent, quick witted > person who expresses himself often times, in a sardonic > tone. Is he mean? No, not really. Is he helpful? Usually. > > If you ever have the opportunity to exchange private > email with Nick, I believe you will see him for who he > really is. I too was put off by him when I first read some > of his posts during a previous uproar. Then, quite > unexpectedly, he wrote to me about an issue that he > saw me post several times. I am so lucky that he did. > It gave me the opportunity to discover what a thoughtful, > caring, and bright man he is. > > I doubt that Nick gives a " rat's hindquarters " whether > everyone on this list approves of him. > > Your writing was extremely competent. Do you think your > life guard would have let some smart aleck kid drown just > because the kid had offended you as Nick seems to have > done? > > Please give everyone on this list a chance. Right now, > the list seems to be frequented by people who really care > about the DS and about reaching out to others. > > gobo > Lap DGB/Dr. > July 9, 2001 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 9, 2001 Report Share Posted August 9, 2001 Nick evidently feels that some people are too quick to shout down folks who don't meet their expectation of " niceness " on the list. His way of proving his point, I suppose, is to post comments that are potentially provocative, in hopes I guess of starting a flame war. Then, he can triumphantly step forward to chastise all the " nice-makers " for valuing style over substance. He's entitled to whatever opinion he wants to hold of this list, but repeatedly harping on this matter isn't helpful to anyone. The archives show that Nick's contributions can be good; unfortunately, the number of helpful posts are seemingly outnumbered by the ones that are designed to annoy. > Re: This list, moderators > > > Gobo, > > The " facts in evidence " to me is that Nick is using this list for an > ongoing rant about a decision made by the list owner with which he > disagrees. Personally from what I've read on the list archives I also > disagree with the decision but it wasn't my (or Nick's) decision to > make nor was it made by or Theresa who Nick keeps pounding > about it. _________________________________________________________ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 9, 2001 Report Share Posted August 9, 2001 Okay, Lee, let's get down to brass tacks. My red-herring detector went off the scale when I read your posts. You make it sound like I have physically beaten Mother . Just what is the decision made by the list owner with which I do not agree? That would be a fact, if it existed, upon which you could base your case. I'm curious just what that decision is, though. Where did you get the idea that mine is an " anti-nice " campaign? I have always been, and still remain, a staunch advocate of " nice. " I even expect to be " nice " to me. I've never lashed out at her personally as she has at me. As to civility towards others, I think that you may be ignorant of who has said what about whom. As you might have noted, I was upgraded to " jackass. " Imagine in your mind what that upgrade was from. My only problem with is her penchant for going on the attack. If is so overwhelmed, she could just let things pass. If you reread prior posts, you'll find that I never even mentioned until she went off on me. I also have to plead innocent as to the charge that I am somehow solely responsible for the overwhelming component of 's life. The only time she has to spend on me is the time that she herself chooses to spend. As to who helps whom, if you should ever have an issue, you might just find that I am a very willing resource. So far all that I've seen is a rather verbose lifeguard metaphor that basically puts forth a plethora of red herrings. Let's look at what started the whole thing, Lee. You are interested in factual information about the DS. I am too. There was a situation involving a surgeon who had a bad surgical outcome that should have raised some red flags in people's minds, especially that surgeon's preops. Instead of permitting a discussion of this, there was a major effort to stifle that discussion. Gee, if you're interested in information, isn't that something that you should know about? Lee, this isn't something that is " clever. " It is something that patients need to be aware of with their doctors. Don't you agree? To follow your metaphor - isn't it a good idea to point out that the lifeguard is not doing their job? N.B. In case you think that this is an attack on anyone on this list, it is not. It is a criticism of the doctor and of those who would rather have seen the information swept under the rug. I think having complete information is " nice. " The criticism I took for advocating open discussion was far from " nice. " Nick in Sage > > > > > Reading Nicks posts and those of some others who > > > seem to think their mere existence gives them the > > > right to bully . . . other posters who don't meet their > > > lofty standards and the right to be abusive to those > > > they disagree with I wonder it they also kick sand on > > > the lifeguards at the beach. > > > > > > On my personal scale I'm weighing people who give me > > > consistent lifesaving information vs the occasional semi- > > > amusing display of semi-wit and frankly I don't give a rat's > > > hindquarters if the sand kickers are satisfied here or not. > > > > > > Just my two cents which is what most people's opinion is worth, > > > Lee > > > > Lee; > > Your unkind comments about Nick assumes facts not in > > evidence. I have had far more experience with him than > > you have and I know that his intention is much more > > altruistic than you realize. > > > > I am under the impression that you are lashing out at him > > in an effort to support and Theresa. I believe that your > > intentions are honorable but and Theresa have > > both had plenty of experience with Nick. I think they both > > see Nick for what he is: a very intelligent, quick witted > > person who expresses himself often times, in a sardonic > > tone. Is he mean? No, not really. Is he helpful? Usually. > > > > If you ever have the opportunity to exchange private > > email with Nick, I believe you will see him for who he > > really is. I too was put off by him when I first read some > > of his posts during a previous uproar. Then, quite > > unexpectedly, he wrote to me about an issue that he > > saw me post several times. I am so lucky that he did. > > It gave me the opportunity to discover what a thoughtful, > > caring, and bright man he is. > > > > I doubt that Nick gives a " rat's hindquarters " whether > > everyone on this list approves of him. > > > > Your writing was extremely competent. Do you think your > > life guard would have let some smart aleck kid drown just > > because the kid had offended you as Nick seems to have > > done? > > > > Please give everyone on this list a chance. Right now, > > the list seems to be frequented by people who really care > > about the DS and about reaching out to others. > > > > gobo > > Lap DGB/Dr. > > July 9, 2001 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 9, 2001 Report Share Posted August 9, 2001 You all have made your points.. agree to disagree and lets have an end to this. Thank you. ! > > > > > > > Reading Nicks posts and those of some others who > > > > seem to think their mere existence gives them the > > > > right to bully . . . other posters who don't meet their > > > > lofty standards and the right to be abusive to those > > > > they disagree with I wonder it they also kick sand on > > > > the lifeguards at the beach. > > > > > > > > On my personal scale I'm weighing people who give me > > > > consistent lifesaving information vs the occasional semi- > > > > amusing display of semi-wit and frankly I don't give a rat's > > > > hindquarters if the sand kickers are satisfied here or not. > > > > > > > > Just my two cents which is what most people's opinion is worth, > > > > Lee > > > > > > Lee; > > > Your unkind comments about Nick assumes facts not in > > > evidence. I have had far more experience with him than > > > you have and I know that his intention is much more > > > altruistic than you realize. > > > > > > I am under the impression that you are lashing out at him > > > in an effort to support and Theresa. I believe that your > > > intentions are honorable but and Theresa have > > > both had plenty of experience with Nick. I think they both > > > see Nick for what he is: a very intelligent, quick witted > > > person who expresses himself often times, in a sardonic > > > tone. Is he mean? No, not really. Is he helpful? Usually. > > > > > > If you ever have the opportunity to exchange private > > > email with Nick, I believe you will see him for who he > > > really is. I too was put off by him when I first read some > > > of his posts during a previous uproar. Then, quite > > > unexpectedly, he wrote to me about an issue that he > > > saw me post several times. I am so lucky that he did. > > > It gave me the opportunity to discover what a thoughtful, > > > caring, and bright man he is. > > > > > > I doubt that Nick gives a " rat's hindquarters " whether > > > everyone on this list approves of him. > > > > > > Your writing was extremely competent. Do you think your > > > life guard would have let some smart aleck kid drown just > > > because the kid had offended you as Nick seems to have > > > done? > > > > > > Please give everyone on this list a chance. Right now, > > > the list seems to be frequented by people who really care > > > about the DS and about reaching out to others. > > > > > > gobo > > > Lap DGB/Dr. > > > July 9, 2001 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 9, 2001 Report Share Posted August 9, 2001 > You make it sound like I have physically beaten Mother . Nope I said you bullied and abused the moderators of this list and in my opinion doing so is inappropriate and immature. > > Just what is the decision made by the list owner with which I do not > agree? That would be a fact, if it existed, upon which you could > base your case. I'm curious just what that decision is, though. You answer your own question later in your post. You disagreed with list owner's decision to remove one of Deb's posts and (depending on who's version one is reading) inform Deb she could not make certain statements about her surgeon on this list. > > Where did you get the idea that mine is an " anti-nice " campaign? I > have always been, and still remain, a staunch advocate of " nice. " I > even expect to be " nice " to me. I've never lashed out at her > personally as she has at me. You repreatedly use the word nice - reminding others to be nice, pointing out how nice you are being - the context in which you use the word nice seems to me to be consistently full of distain but then perhaps I'm stupid as well as verbose. > > As to civility towards others, I think that you may be ignorant of > who has said what about whom. As you might have noted, I was > upgraded to " jackass. " Imagine in your mind what that upgrade was > from. My only problem with is her penchant for going on the > attack. Oops add ignorant to stupid and verbose. So your ongoing attacks on are justified because she refused to be a nice little punching bag or be censored by your version of how she should think and what she should say - the nerve of that woman. > > If is so overwhelmed, she could just let things pass. If you > reread prior posts, you'll find that I never even mentioned > until she went off on me. I also have to plead innocent as to the > charge that I am somehow solely responsible for the overwhelming > component of 's life. The only time she has to spend on me is > the time that she herself chooses to spend. > Oh right the " not matter how disruptive I am the people who's face I'm in don't need to notice me " argument. It's all over the internet and in most junior highs - it's bogus. Maybe people can hold a coherent conversation around someone who insists on standing in the middle of floor and screaming but why should they have to? > As to who helps whom, if you should ever have an issue, you might > just find that I am a very willing resource. So far all that I've > seen is a rather verbose lifeguard metaphor that basically puts forth > a plethora of red herrings. Maybe someday I will find you are a willing resource but I won't find other people who used to be willing and valuable resources on this list because they don't participate here anymore. In a t least one case your " nice " campaign was specifically singled out as the reason. > > Let's look at what started the whole thing, Lee. You are interested > in factual information about the DS. I am too. There was a > situation involving a surgeon who had a bad surgical outcome that > should have raised some red flags in people's minds, especially that > surgeon's preops. Instead of permitting a discussion of this, there > was a major effort to stifle that discussion. Gee, if you're > interested in information, isn't that something that you should know > about? Lee, this isn't something that is " clever. " It is something > that patients need to be aware of with their doctors. Don't you > agree? > Yes I do agree and I read all the information on Deb's case both here and on Deb's group which was linked to from this list. If the moderators were indeed trying to surpress discussion of Deb's surgery or opinions about Dr. Ren they did an exceeding poor job of it. > To follow your metaphor - isn't it a good idea to point out that the > lifeguard is not doing their job? N.B. In case you think that this > is an attack on anyone on this list, it is not. It is a criticism of > the doctor and of those who would rather have seen the information > swept under the rug. > > I think having complete information is " nice. " The criticism I took > for advocating open discussion was far from " nice. " > Yes it is a good idea if indeed the lifeguard, who I specified in my first post were and Theresa, were suppressing unfavorable information - they say they didn't, you haven't provided any evidence they did, so what is your problem with them and why do we keep having to hear about it? Lee Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 9, 2001 Report Share Posted August 9, 2001 > > Just what is the decision made by the list owner with which I do > > not agree? That would be a fact, if it existed, upon which you > > could base your case. I'm curious just what that decision is, > > though. > > You answer your own question later in your post. You disagreed > with list owner's decision to remove one of Deb's posts and > (depending on who's version one is reading) inform Deb she could > not make certain statements about her surgeon on this list. For the record, no posts of Deb's (nor any posts pertaining to that entire issue) have ever been removed or moderated or held for review. Rouse, the list owner, did write privately to Deb and asked her to refrain from posting about Dr. Ren. Almost immediately thereafter -- AND THIS IS THE PART THAT SEEMS TO BE CONTINUALLY FORGOTTEN -- wrote to the list and aplogized for this action, explaining that she was distraight over the suicide of her closest friend and had acted rashly. Apparently, the few people who were so het up over the whole thing somehow missed the truth that there was never any censorship. (Hell, if this list was censor-happy, wouldn't we have banned a bunch of people by now? LOL) The subsequent petition that was promoted here by these few people was completely bogus, since it was based on the false premise that Deb was censored and/or banned. There you have it, in a nutshell. > > You make it sound like I have physically beaten Mother . > > Nope I said you bullied and abused the moderators of this list and in > my opinion doing so is inappropriate and immature. > > > > Just what is the decision made by the list owner with which I do > not > > agree? That would be a fact, if it existed, upon which you could > > base your case. I'm curious just what that decision is, though. > > You answer your own question later in your post. You disagreed with > list owner's decision to remove one of Deb's posts and (depending on > who's version one is reading) inform Deb she could not make certain > statements about her surgeon on this list. > > > > Where did you get the idea that mine is an " anti-nice " campaign? I > > have always been, and still remain, a staunch advocate of " nice. " > I > > even expect to be " nice " to me. I've never lashed out at > her > > personally as she has at me. > > You repreatedly use the word nice - reminding others to be nice, > pointing out how nice you are being - the context in which you use > the word nice seems to me to be consistently full of distain but then > perhaps I'm stupid as well as verbose. > > > > As to civility towards others, I think that you may be ignorant of > > who has said what about whom. As you might have noted, I was > > upgraded to " jackass. " Imagine in your mind what that upgrade was > > from. My only problem with is her penchant for going on > the > > attack. > > Oops add ignorant to stupid and verbose. So your ongoing attacks on > are justified because she refused to be a nice little > punching bag or be censored by your version of how she should think > and what she should say - the nerve of that woman. > > > > > If is so overwhelmed, she could just let things pass. If > you > > reread prior posts, you'll find that I never even mentioned > > until she went off on me. I also have to plead innocent as to the > > charge that I am somehow solely responsible for the overwhelming > > component of 's life. The only time she has to spend on me > is > > the time that she herself chooses to spend. > > > Oh right the " not matter how disruptive I am the people who's face > I'm in don't need to notice me " argument. It's all over the internet > and in most junior highs - it's bogus. Maybe people can hold a > coherent conversation around someone who insists on standing in the > middle of floor and screaming but why should they have to? > > > As to who helps whom, if you should ever have an issue, you might > > just find that I am a very willing resource. So far all that I've > > seen is a rather verbose lifeguard metaphor that basically puts > forth > > a plethora of red herrings. > > Maybe someday I will find you are a willing resource but I won't find > other people who used to be willing and valuable resources on this > list because they don't participate here anymore. In a t least one > case your " nice " campaign was specifically singled out as the reason. > > > > > Let's look at what started the whole thing, Lee. You are > interested > > in factual information about the DS. I am too. There was a > > situation involving a surgeon who had a bad surgical outcome that > > should have raised some red flags in people's minds, especially > that > > surgeon's preops. Instead of permitting a discussion of this, > there > > was a major effort to stifle that discussion. Gee, if you're > > interested in information, isn't that something that you should > know > > about? Lee, this isn't something that is " clever. " It is > something > > that patients need to be aware of with their doctors. Don't you > > agree? > > > > Yes I do agree and I read all the information on Deb's case both here > and on Deb's group which was linked to from this list. If the > moderators were indeed trying to surpress discussion of Deb's surgery > or opinions about Dr. Ren they did an exceeding poor job of it. > > > To follow your metaphor - isn't it a good idea to point out that > the > > lifeguard is not doing their job? N.B. In case you think that this > > is an attack on anyone on this list, it is not. It is a criticism > of > > the doctor and of those who would rather have seen the information > > swept under the rug. > > > > I think having complete information is " nice. " The criticism I > took > > for advocating open discussion was far from " nice. " > > > > Yes it is a good idea if indeed the lifeguard, who I specified in my > first post were and Theresa, were suppressing unfavorable > information - they say they didn't, you haven't provided any evidence > they did, so what is your problem with them and why do we keep having > to hear about it? > > Lee Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 9, 2001 Report Share Posted August 9, 2001 Lee, > > The " facts in evidence " to me is that Nick is using this list for > an ongoing rant about a decision made by the list owner with > which he disagrees. I would say this is your IMPRESSION of what Nick's doing. While our impressions are valid, they are not facts. > It's ironic that you accuse me of " lashing out " and making " unkind > comments " because I object to Nick's ongoing anti-nice crusade - I did not accuse you of anything (I hope not anyway), I stated to you clearly what my own impressions are as well as the fact that I believed you to have honorable intent. > But then I learned long ago that the class clown and his audience > rarely find it nearly as amusing when the " joke " is on them. I have no idea what this means. > Should people be condemed to death because they offend me? Well gee > Gobo talk about demonizing people you don't know because you don't > agree with them. I have not as of yet 'demonized' any person, regardless of whether I know them or not. > > Do you think your life guard would have let some smart aleck kid > > drown just because the kid had offended you as Nick seems to >> have done? > > Of course the lifeguard should save the smart aleck's life but he > should also ban the smart aleck from the beach if his actions are > putting the lifeguard or other swimmers at risk. Since your eloquent writing has been used by both of us as an analogy for this group, I assume you are implying that Nick should be banned? He certainly hasn't put anyone's life at risk. If we start trying to ban members because they rattle our sensibilities, we create a slippery slope. Eventually, we who were offended will offend someone else, and then we too shall be banned from the beach, er the group. > > Joe Frost already left this list in part because of Nick's > anti-nice crusade. Are you absolutely positiive that Nick is single-handedly responsible for Joe's choice of groups? I happen to know Joe and it is my opinion that Joe does not allow other individuals to determine where he spends his time. I know for a fact that Joe and Nick are BOTH valuable and welcome members of another group. > As for the personal testimonials to what a great guy Nick is they > aren't necessary, he might very well be the most fantastic human > ever to walk the internet but I still think his bullying the moderators > of this list is inappropriate and immature. I believe that Nick is not bullying; Nick is keeping us on our toes. The thing that bothers me is the eruption of unnecessary negativity. One of the best lessons my Mothers taught me is to just ignore someone behaving in a way that bothers me. If Nick or anyone else bothers you, I suggest you stop reading their posts and ignore the ones you've read. This group is not supposed to be about controlling others. We're all here to support those we can. Best wishes & Good luck to you, Lee. gobo Lap DGB/Dr. July 9, 2001 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 9, 2001 Report Share Posted August 9, 2001 Gobo, I get it - be NICE. To disagree with Nick is NOT NICE while Nick jumping on people who are only trying to help others is VERY NICE indeed. If I don't agree with Nick abusing others I should just close my mouth because Nick says that no one on this list should ever be censored or told to shut up unless he (or his acolytes) is the one censoring or trying to control others. No problem I'll leave, Nick will once again be free to rant and rage without fear of anyone (except ) telling him they think he's acting like a spoiled brat and will be roundly criticized for defending herself or trying to maintain the integrity of what she has worked so hard to create. Lee > The thing that bothers me is the eruption of unnecessary negativity. > One of the best lessons my Mothers taught me is to just ignore > someone behaving in a way that bothers me. If Nick or anyone > else bothers you, I suggest you stop reading their posts and > ignore the ones you've read. This group is not supposed > to be about controlling others. We're all here to support > those we can. > > Best wishes & Good luck to you, Lee. > > gobo > Lap DGB/Dr. > July 9, 2001 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 9, 2001 Report Share Posted August 9, 2001 Apparently you don't get it . . . or, were you being facetious? I am no judge of what fits the rules of 'Being Nice'. You know Lee, there are times when the marvelous Nick offends me too. I mentioned that in my intial post to you. All I'm saying is that when he or anyone else offends me, usually I find it easier to ignore them then to try to control them. You can go to any group you want to but I have a feeling that you'll find the same aversion to being controlled by the sensibilities of any one single member. By the way, if you DO find another group to go to, chances are that Nick and many other members of this group are already there as well. good luck & best wishes. gobo Lap DGB/Dr. July 9, 2001 > Gobo, > > I get it - be NICE. To disagree with Nick is NOT NICE while Nick > jumping on people who are only trying to help others is VERY NICE > indeed. > > If I don't agree with Nick abusing others I should just close my > mouth because Nick says that no one on this list should ever be > censored or told to shut up unless he (or his acolytes) is the one > censoring or trying to control others. > > No problem I'll leave, Nick will once again be free to rant and rage > without fear of anyone (except ) telling him they think he's > acting like a spoiled brat and will be roundly criticized for > defending herself or trying to maintain the integrity of what she has > worked so hard to create. > > Lee > > > The thing that bothers me is the eruption of unnecessary negativity. > > One of the best lessons my Mothers taught me is to just ignore > > someone behaving in a way that bothers me. If Nick or anyone > > else bothers you, I suggest you stop reading their posts and > > ignore the ones you've read. This group is not supposed > > to be about controlling others. We're all here to support > > those we can. > > > > Best wishes & Good luck to you, Lee. > > > > gobo > > Lap DGB/Dr. > > July 9, 2001 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 9, 2001 Report Share Posted August 9, 2001 Nick wrote: > As to civility towards others, I think that you may be ignorant of > who has said what about whom. As you might have noted, I was > upgraded to " jackass. " Imagine in your mind what that upgrade was > from. My only problem with is her penchant for going on the > attack. Actually, I said that I felt your comments shed a negative light on you, and I did use colorful language to describe how it made you look. In the earlier post you are referring to, I wrote, " Clearly you don't care if you come off like an asshole " , and in the most recent case, I wrote, " You clearly just want to be provocative, for whatever reason. What's the point? It has nothing to do with the DS, and it only serves to make you look like a jackass. " In any case, you're right that I haven't been charitable in characterizing how you come off sometimes. > If is so overwhelmed, she could just let things pass. If you > reread prior posts, you'll find that I never even mentioned > until she went off on me. I also have to plead innocent as to the > charge that I am somehow solely responsible for the overwhelming > component of 's life. The only time she has to spend on me is > the time that she herself chooses to spend. I don't believe I ever said that you are solely responsible for me being overwhelmed. I blame myself completely for that. Want to do everything, but don't have time to do it all as timely as I would like. > Let's look at what started the whole thing, Lee. Why, Nick? Why must we rehash this issue ad nauseum? Many of your basic assumptions and finger-pointing on the whole thing were just plain wrong. I was in the middle of a cross-country move when this all happened, but I do believe that it was blown way beyond proportion. I don't know why you can't let it go, stop with the misguided object lessons, and let the list get on with its business. M. --- in Valrico, FL, age 38 Starting weight 299, now 156 Starting BMI 49.7, now 26.0 Lap DGB/DS by Dr. Rabkin 10-19-99 http://www.duodenalswitch.com Direct replies: mailto:melanie@... _________________________________________________________ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 9, 2001 Report Share Posted August 9, 2001 T-R-U-C-E already, huh? Enough is enough. Let's move on. --Steve -- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 9, 2001 Report Share Posted August 9, 2001 Steve.. my MAN!! lol.. your always talking so much SENSE!! lol.. Sue. > T-R-U-C-E already, huh? Enough is enough. Let's move on. > > --Steve > -- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 9, 2001 Report Share Posted August 9, 2001 My Gosh, maybe I did beat Mother ! If I did, it surely wasn't " nice. " I hang my head in shame. Best- Nick in Sage > > In a message dated 8/9/01 7:17:59 PM, duodenalswitch@y... writes: > > << > You make it sound like I have physically beaten Mother . >> > > Hey, Nick - NOW you're getting personal -- this was my nickname in Catholic > school, you know! ROFL All tongue in cheek here! > > I do agree with Lee and I'm glad he spoke up about his feelings. I think > many on the list share it. I also agree that Nick is a valuable resource and > *may* just be trying to be extremely sarcastic. His intentions may not be > malevolent but I hope he can also understand that we don't WANT to start or > incite another flamewar about censorship, 'niceness' and such since it really > tore the group up not in the distant past. > > Hopefully we can come to an understanding here. Nick, we aren't saying (at > least I'm not saying LOL) that you are a total ass or anything like this --- > Just that constant comments about being 'nice', etc. are getting annoying and > can be potentially detrimental to the lists' well being. Not to say you > should never post or are never 'allowed' to be sardonic but I hope you can > see where the niceness stuff can get old??? :) > > All the best, > > lap ds with gallbladder removal > January 25, 2001 > > Dr. Gagner/Mt. Sinai/NYC > > pre-op: 307 lbs/bmi 45 > now: 228 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 9, 2001 Report Share Posted August 9, 2001 Thanks, Steve -- I was afraid that I'd have to hold my breath until I turned blue - purple - whatever - yet again. You saved me with this truce. I couldn't possible withstand yet another frontal barrage by Crusader Lee. Best- Nick in Sage > T-R-U-C-E already, huh? Enough is enough. Let's move on. > > --Steve > -- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 10, 2001 Report Share Posted August 10, 2001 Lord have mercy! I have been gone for 8 weeks having a panni and in recovery-- and I was one of the lot involved in the first uproar-- I am amazed to find this nonsense is still alive. GET OVER IT. It is ancient history. Move on, folks, I did. Nan E. -- pre ds in Ca with Dr. Anthone Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 10, 2001 Report Share Posted August 10, 2001 YES, PUHLEEZE!!!, Meli -- In duodenalswitch@y..., Steve Goldstein <steve-goldstein@c...> wrote: > T-R-U-C-E already, huh? Enough is enough. Let's move on. > > --Steve > -- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 10, 2001 Report Share Posted August 10, 2001 In a message dated 8/10/01 2:29:56 AM, duodenalswitch writes: << Thanks, Steve -- I was afraid that I'd have to hold my breath until I turned blue - purple - whatever - yet again. You saved me with this truce. I couldn't possible withstand yet another frontal barrage by Crusader Lee. >> Nick: Steve referred to a truce and 'dropping it already' --- You are continuing on and on... No one says you have to hold your breathe, but you (and everyone else) have been asked to stop from making further comments on this issue. All the best, Noverr-Chin co-moderator, duodenalswitch lap ds with gallbladder removal January 25,2 001 Dr. Gagner/Mt. Sinai/NYC pre-op: 307 lbs/bmi 45 now: 228 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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