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In a message dated 8/13/01 12:15:04 PM, duodenalswitch writes:

<< I can

imagine what someone who is just starting the process and less informed would

think. As much as we want to protect and inform, we can't scare people away

either. I feel that if someone wants to talk about mortality, then have

statistics to back it up. Same for infection, etc. Also, keep in mind that

doing your homework will greatly increase your odds for a successful outcome

too.

>>

Sherry: I definately think everyone should do their homework and that

statistically severe complications and death are in the *MINORITY*. But,

that being said, many will just kind of push these things to the back of

their minds (not saying YOU are doing this, mind you) and say 'hey,

statistically it's NOT going to happen to me!' Then, IF it does, it can be

really devastating.

At least this is the common thread I've found with those I have known who

experienced severe complications (leaks, blockages, pnemonia, coma, etc. -

you name it): They never thought it would happen to THEM and felt so

overwhelmed when it did. Many had said that they went into surgery prepared

for the possibility of death, but NOT for a long, drawn out hospitalization

and the painful, complicated recovery.

I don't want to scare pre-ops, either! But, I think we should openly discuss

what can happen regardless. I don't think anyone has stated that death or

complications are commonplace. Statistically they are rare -- but statistics

are no guarantee. That's my point. I mean, statistically I assured myself

that I would be at low(er) risk because my starting bmi was 45, I hadn't had

any previous abdominal surgeries and was in good health without any serious

co-morbidities. But, I still knew that anything *could* happen and went into

the surgery acknowledging this. Statistically, I came out with FLYING colors

but I know others who did not.

I think these issues are MOST imposing for soon-to-be-post-ops because many

can experience natural 'second thoughts' and fears regarding their impending

surgery. I think this is the time it really hits home. I've known many

people who go 'no mail' early because they do not want to read the lists and

have topics discussed affect them so deeply emotionally.

Yes, this surgery is about saving one's life! And, the complications that

can arise from being morbidly obese (including the risk of death) are great

as well. I mean, we all go in with at least one strike against us on the

operating table. :(

all the best,

NOverr-Chin

co-moderator

duodenalswitch

January 25, 2001

lap bpd/ds with gallbladder removal

Dr. Gagner/Mt. Sinai/NYC

pre-op: 307 lbs/bmi 45 (5' 9 1/2 " )

now: 234 (agh!)

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In a message dated 8/13/01 12:15:04 PM, duodenalswitch writes:

<< I can

imagine what someone who is just starting the process and less informed would

think. As much as we want to protect and inform, we can't scare people away

either. I feel that if someone wants to talk about mortality, then have

statistics to back it up. Same for infection, etc. Also, keep in mind that

doing your homework will greatly increase your odds for a successful outcome

too.

>>

Sherry: I definately think everyone should do their homework and that

statistically severe complications and death are in the *MINORITY*. But,

that being said, many will just kind of push these things to the back of

their minds (not saying YOU are doing this, mind you) and say 'hey,

statistically it's NOT going to happen to me!' Then, IF it does, it can be

really devastating.

At least this is the common thread I've found with those I have known who

experienced severe complications (leaks, blockages, pnemonia, coma, etc. -

you name it): They never thought it would happen to THEM and felt so

overwhelmed when it did. Many had said that they went into surgery prepared

for the possibility of death, but NOT for a long, drawn out hospitalization

and the painful, complicated recovery.

I don't want to scare pre-ops, either! But, I think we should openly discuss

what can happen regardless. I don't think anyone has stated that death or

complications are commonplace. Statistically they are rare -- but statistics

are no guarantee. That's my point. I mean, statistically I assured myself

that I would be at low(er) risk because my starting bmi was 45, I hadn't had

any previous abdominal surgeries and was in good health without any serious

co-morbidities. But, I still knew that anything *could* happen and went into

the surgery acknowledging this. Statistically, I came out with FLYING colors

but I know others who did not.

I think these issues are MOST imposing for soon-to-be-post-ops because many

can experience natural 'second thoughts' and fears regarding their impending

surgery. I think this is the time it really hits home. I've known many

people who go 'no mail' early because they do not want to read the lists and

have topics discussed affect them so deeply emotionally.

Yes, this surgery is about saving one's life! And, the complications that

can arise from being morbidly obese (including the risk of death) are great

as well. I mean, we all go in with at least one strike against us on the

operating table. :(

all the best,

NOverr-Chin

co-moderator

duodenalswitch

January 25, 2001

lap bpd/ds with gallbladder removal

Dr. Gagner/Mt. Sinai/NYC

pre-op: 307 lbs/bmi 45 (5' 9 1/2 " )

now: 234 (agh!)

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In a message dated 8/13/01 12:13:28 PM Eastern Daylight Time,

gporter@... writes:

> My date is the day after tomorrow

Good luck with the surgery Greg. I'll be thinking of you and saying a

prayer. I expect you to come back on the list soon, and tell us how well you

did! :o)

Sherry

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In a message dated 8/13/01 12:13:28 PM Eastern Daylight Time,

gporter@... writes:

> My date is the day after tomorrow

Good luck with the surgery Greg. I'll be thinking of you and saying a

prayer. I expect you to come back on the list soon, and tell us how well you

did! :o)

Sherry

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In a message dated 8/13/01 1:34:24 PM Eastern Daylight Time, ruisha@...

writes:

> But,

> that being said, many will just kind of push these things to the back of

> their minds (not saying YOU are doing this, mind you) and say 'hey,

> statistically it's NOT going to happen to me!' Then, IF it does, it can be

> really devastating.

>

I know this can happen to me. The possibilities are real but I think that if

we or rather I, didn't push it to the back of our minds, how many of us would

be able to go through with the surgery. I think if I didn't have a child I

wouldn't even be having this conversation but my biggest fear is leaving her

without a mother. I have to keep a positive attitude in order to stay calm

at this point. I'm going to a meeting tonight. I had stopped going when my

approval was pending. I would have been crushed if I was denied and was

going to the meetings, getting close to people, etc.

" They never thought it would happen to THEM and felt so

overwhelmed when it did. "

Honestly, I think anyone would feel overwhelmed.

Maybe I'm being overly sensitive since surgery is only 10 days away. I went

into this cautiously, found my first ray of hope in my life and fought like a

champ to get approval. Now reality is really hitting and it's scary. On the

positive side, I'm only 32 and relatively healthy with a BMI of about 49-50.

Oh how I wish I was already home and recouperating!

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In a message dated 8/13/01 1:34:24 PM Eastern Daylight Time, ruisha@...

writes:

> But,

> that being said, many will just kind of push these things to the back of

> their minds (not saying YOU are doing this, mind you) and say 'hey,

> statistically it's NOT going to happen to me!' Then, IF it does, it can be

> really devastating.

>

I know this can happen to me. The possibilities are real but I think that if

we or rather I, didn't push it to the back of our minds, how many of us would

be able to go through with the surgery. I think if I didn't have a child I

wouldn't even be having this conversation but my biggest fear is leaving her

without a mother. I have to keep a positive attitude in order to stay calm

at this point. I'm going to a meeting tonight. I had stopped going when my

approval was pending. I would have been crushed if I was denied and was

going to the meetings, getting close to people, etc.

" They never thought it would happen to THEM and felt so

overwhelmed when it did. "

Honestly, I think anyone would feel overwhelmed.

Maybe I'm being overly sensitive since surgery is only 10 days away. I went

into this cautiously, found my first ray of hope in my life and fought like a

champ to get approval. Now reality is really hitting and it's scary. On the

positive side, I'm only 32 and relatively healthy with a BMI of about 49-50.

Oh how I wish I was already home and recouperating!

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Sherry,

You are correct that the mortality rate is below 2%. However, the

risks vary greatly depending on the health, and BMI of the patient.

For somebody with a BMI of 83 it might well be close to 50/50. For a

fairly healthy individual with a BMI of 45 the risk might be less

than 0.5%. Pre-ops should be aware of what their risk is as well as

potential reward. However, nobody should take any one thread out of

context.

Hull

> This is really starting to bother me. Yes the DS is a major and

serious

> surgery but from what my surgeon told me and from everything I've

read, the

> mortality rate is low. I believe under 2%. There are

complications but the

> most common are hernia and wound infection. I am not saying that

someone

> contemplating this surgery should just go full steam ahead with one

eye open

> but what is being said lately, sounds a bit overboard as far as

making it

> sound like anyone who gets the DS has a 50/50 chance of dying.

This surgery

> is about saving one's life, not killing you. As a pre-op with only

10 days

> to go, these posts have been hard to read. I feel I did my

homework

> thoroughly and have come a long way to get up to this point and

even with all

> of that, reading these posts has scared me more than I already am.

I can

> imagine what someone who is just starting the process and less

informed would

> think. As much as we want to protect and inform, we can't scare

people away

> either. I feel that if someone wants to talk about mortality, then

have

> statistics to back it up. Same for infection, etc. Also, keep in

mind that

> doing your homework will greatly increase your odds for a

successful outcome

> too.

>

> Now with all of that being said, I honestly feel this is the

greatest group

> I've ever joined. The info I've received from all of you is

priceless to

> me. I just needed to get this off of my chest.

>

> Sherry

>

>

>

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Sherry,

You are correct that the mortality rate is below 2%. However, the

risks vary greatly depending on the health, and BMI of the patient.

For somebody with a BMI of 83 it might well be close to 50/50. For a

fairly healthy individual with a BMI of 45 the risk might be less

than 0.5%. Pre-ops should be aware of what their risk is as well as

potential reward. However, nobody should take any one thread out of

context.

Hull

> This is really starting to bother me. Yes the DS is a major and

serious

> surgery but from what my surgeon told me and from everything I've

read, the

> mortality rate is low. I believe under 2%. There are

complications but the

> most common are hernia and wound infection. I am not saying that

someone

> contemplating this surgery should just go full steam ahead with one

eye open

> but what is being said lately, sounds a bit overboard as far as

making it

> sound like anyone who gets the DS has a 50/50 chance of dying.

This surgery

> is about saving one's life, not killing you. As a pre-op with only

10 days

> to go, these posts have been hard to read. I feel I did my

homework

> thoroughly and have come a long way to get up to this point and

even with all

> of that, reading these posts has scared me more than I already am.

I can

> imagine what someone who is just starting the process and less

informed would

> think. As much as we want to protect and inform, we can't scare

people away

> either. I feel that if someone wants to talk about mortality, then

have

> statistics to back it up. Same for infection, etc. Also, keep in

mind that

> doing your homework will greatly increase your odds for a

successful outcome

> too.

>

> Now with all of that being said, I honestly feel this is the

greatest group

> I've ever joined. The info I've received from all of you is

priceless to

> me. I just needed to get this off of my chest.

>

> Sherry

>

>

>

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My date is the day after tomorrow, so I read these things with a

little trepidation. On one hand, I want to know where all the

alligators are, and how big they are before I jump in the swimming

hole. On the other hand, I wonder if I'll see my little boy again.

I know this - my dad died at 57 from stroke. Being overweight killed

him dead. I gotta do something, or I'll be laid beside him. In my

opinion DS is the best surgical option for me.

So although I know what might happen, I know what will happen if I

don't.

Greg

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My date is the day after tomorrow, so I read these things with a

little trepidation. On one hand, I want to know where all the

alligators are, and how big they are before I jump in the swimming

hole. On the other hand, I wonder if I'll see my little boy again.

I know this - my dad died at 57 from stroke. Being overweight killed

him dead. I gotta do something, or I'll be laid beside him. In my

opinion DS is the best surgical option for me.

So although I know what might happen, I know what will happen if I

don't.

Greg

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I think anything related to death is hard to read, especially right before your

surgery. I do however think that the odds are different depending on your

size...with an average of 2%. I know more people come thru fine and while its

hard to read...you have to keep it real. Reality is you'll do fine...and the

healthier you are now, the better chance you have.

AJ

GABS12992@... wrote:

>This is really starting to bother me. Yes the DS is a major and serious

>surgery but from what my surgeon told me and from everything I've read, the

>mortality rate is low. I believe under 2%. There are complications but the

>most common are hernia and wound infection. I am not saying that someone

>contemplating this surgery should just go full steam ahead with one eye open

>but what is being said lately, sounds a bit overboard as far as making it

>sound like anyone who gets the DS has a 50/50 chance of dying. This surgery

>is about saving one's life, not killing you. As a pre-op with only 10 days

>to go, these posts have been hard to read. I feel I did my homework

>thoroughly and have come a long way to get up to this point and even with all

>of that, reading these posts has scared me more than I already am. I can

>imagine what someone who is just starting the process and less informed would

>think. As much as we want to protect and inform, we can't scare people away

>either. I feel that if someone wants to talk about mortality, then have

>statistics to back it up. Same for infection, etc. Also, keep in mind that

>doing your homework will greatly increase your odds for a successful outcome

>too.

>

>Now with all of that being said, I honestly feel this is the greatest group

>I've ever joined. The info I've received from all of you is priceless to

>me. I just needed to get this off of my chest.

>

>Sherry

>

>

>

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I think anything related to death is hard to read, especially right before your

surgery. I do however think that the odds are different depending on your

size...with an average of 2%. I know more people come thru fine and while its

hard to read...you have to keep it real. Reality is you'll do fine...and the

healthier you are now, the better chance you have.

AJ

GABS12992@... wrote:

>This is really starting to bother me. Yes the DS is a major and serious

>surgery but from what my surgeon told me and from everything I've read, the

>mortality rate is low. I believe under 2%. There are complications but the

>most common are hernia and wound infection. I am not saying that someone

>contemplating this surgery should just go full steam ahead with one eye open

>but what is being said lately, sounds a bit overboard as far as making it

>sound like anyone who gets the DS has a 50/50 chance of dying. This surgery

>is about saving one's life, not killing you. As a pre-op with only 10 days

>to go, these posts have been hard to read. I feel I did my homework

>thoroughly and have come a long way to get up to this point and even with all

>of that, reading these posts has scared me more than I already am. I can

>imagine what someone who is just starting the process and less informed would

>think. As much as we want to protect and inform, we can't scare people away

>either. I feel that if someone wants to talk about mortality, then have

>statistics to back it up. Same for infection, etc. Also, keep in mind that

>doing your homework will greatly increase your odds for a successful outcome

>too.

>

>Now with all of that being said, I honestly feel this is the greatest group

>I've ever joined. The info I've received from all of you is priceless to

>me. I just needed to get this off of my chest.

>

>Sherry

>

>

>

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At 11:42 AM -0400 8/13/01, GABS12992@... wrote:

>This is really starting to bother me.... As a pre-op with only 10 days

>to go, these posts have been hard to read. I feel I did my homework

>thoroughly and have come a long way to get up to this point and even with all

>of that, reading these posts has scared me more than I already am. I can

>imagine what someone who is just starting the process and less informed would

>think. As much as we want to protect and inform, we can't scare people away

>either.

Be scared. Be VERY scared. Then, with all the research you have

done, and all the soul searching you can do, if you STILL decide to

go through with it, that's OK. But, don't just blindly follow the

yellow brick road to the operating room!

Scared is good. If we scare some people away, that's probably good,

too. That means that they need to do more homework or more

soul-searching or both. If they ask, we can help them with the

soul-searching and with the facts, but Heaven knows, this is not a

popularity contest; this is not an evangelical religion; we are not

magnified by large numbers of DS-converted. There will be more

people knocking at the DS door than there are top-notch DS surgeons

to accommodate them.

--Steve

--

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At 11:42 AM -0400 8/13/01, GABS12992@... wrote:

>This is really starting to bother me.... As a pre-op with only 10 days

>to go, these posts have been hard to read. I feel I did my homework

>thoroughly and have come a long way to get up to this point and even with all

>of that, reading these posts has scared me more than I already am. I can

>imagine what someone who is just starting the process and less informed would

>think. As much as we want to protect and inform, we can't scare people away

>either.

Be scared. Be VERY scared. Then, with all the research you have

done, and all the soul searching you can do, if you STILL decide to

go through with it, that's OK. But, don't just blindly follow the

yellow brick road to the operating room!

Scared is good. If we scare some people away, that's probably good,

too. That means that they need to do more homework or more

soul-searching or both. If they ask, we can help them with the

soul-searching and with the facts, but Heaven knows, this is not a

popularity contest; this is not an evangelical religion; we are not

magnified by large numbers of DS-converted. There will be more

people knocking at the DS door than there are top-notch DS surgeons

to accommodate them.

--Steve

--

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At 4:09 PM +0000 8/13/01, gporter@... wrote:

>My date is the day after tomorrow, so I read these things with a

>little trepidation.

Bless you, Greg. Even without having read this stuff, being that

close to surgery is a scary time in one's life. I was a bit out of

my gourd. Funny, but the day before surgery, faced with the citrate

of magnesia drill and so forth, I got real calm and focused. But,

we're all different.

> On one hand, I want to know where all the

>alligators are, and how big they are before I jump in the swimming

>hole.

My guess is that you know all that by now.

>On the other hand, I wonder if I'll see my little boy again.

Yes, that is the big unknown. I was telling my wife where to find

things like insurance policies, etc. We just cannot know. That's

why we have to trust our surgeon and, if we are believers, a higher

power as well.

>

>I know this - my dad died at 57 from stroke. Being overweight killed

>him dead. I gotta do something, or I'll be laid beside him. In my

>opinion DS is the best surgical option for me.

Let that knowledge sustain you.

>

>So although I know what might happen, I know what will happen if I

>don't.

Go in peace, Greg. We'll all be rooting for you.

--Steve

--

Steve Goldstein, age 61

Lap BPD/DS on May 2, 2001

Dr. Elariny, INOVA Fairfax Hospital, Virginia

Starting (05/02/01) BMI = 51

BMI on 08/07 = 42

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At 4:09 PM +0000 8/13/01, gporter@... wrote:

>My date is the day after tomorrow, so I read these things with a

>little trepidation.

Bless you, Greg. Even without having read this stuff, being that

close to surgery is a scary time in one's life. I was a bit out of

my gourd. Funny, but the day before surgery, faced with the citrate

of magnesia drill and so forth, I got real calm and focused. But,

we're all different.

> On one hand, I want to know where all the

>alligators are, and how big they are before I jump in the swimming

>hole.

My guess is that you know all that by now.

>On the other hand, I wonder if I'll see my little boy again.

Yes, that is the big unknown. I was telling my wife where to find

things like insurance policies, etc. We just cannot know. That's

why we have to trust our surgeon and, if we are believers, a higher

power as well.

>

>I know this - my dad died at 57 from stroke. Being overweight killed

>him dead. I gotta do something, or I'll be laid beside him. In my

>opinion DS is the best surgical option for me.

Let that knowledge sustain you.

>

>So although I know what might happen, I know what will happen if I

>don't.

Go in peace, Greg. We'll all be rooting for you.

--Steve

--

Steve Goldstein, age 61

Lap BPD/DS on May 2, 2001

Dr. Elariny, INOVA Fairfax Hospital, Virginia

Starting (05/02/01) BMI = 51

BMI on 08/07 = 42

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Sherry--

So sorry about adding to your fears--none of us want to add to your

anxiety so close to your surgery. It is just part of the cycle the

group goes through--we try to pick apart and analyse things that

happen and information is shared that puts us in the driver's seat

again.

I think all of us feel 1 death out of a thousand is still too much--

life is precious--if we can gain something that protects those that

follow--such as you in 10 days--me in 9weeks--we've accomplished a

great thing.

Pammi

> This is really starting to bother me. Yes the DS is a major and

serious

> surgery but from what my surgeon told me and from everything I've

read, the

> mortality rate is low. I believe under 2%. There are

complications but the

> most common are hernia and wound infection. I am not saying that

someone

> contemplating this surgery should just go full steam ahead with one

eye open

> but what is being said lately, sounds a bit overboard as far as

making it

> sound like anyone who gets the DS has a 50/50 chance of dying.

This surgery

> is about saving one's life, not killing you. As a pre-op with only

10 days

> to go, these posts have been hard to read. I feel I did my

homework

> thoroughly and have come a long way to get up to this point and

even with all

> of that, reading these posts has scared me more than I already am.

I can

> imagine what someone who is just starting the process and less

informed would

> think. As much as we want to protect and inform, we can't scare

people away

> either. I feel that if someone wants to talk about mortality, then

have

> statistics to back it up. Same for infection, etc. Also, keep in

mind that

> doing your homework will greatly increase your odds for a

successful outcome

> too.

>

> Now with all of that being said, I honestly feel this is the

greatest group

> I've ever joined. The info I've received from all of you is

priceless to

> me. I just needed to get this off of my chest.

>

> Sherry

>

>

>

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Sherry--

So sorry about adding to your fears--none of us want to add to your

anxiety so close to your surgery. It is just part of the cycle the

group goes through--we try to pick apart and analyse things that

happen and information is shared that puts us in the driver's seat

again.

I think all of us feel 1 death out of a thousand is still too much--

life is precious--if we can gain something that protects those that

follow--such as you in 10 days--me in 9weeks--we've accomplished a

great thing.

Pammi

> This is really starting to bother me. Yes the DS is a major and

serious

> surgery but from what my surgeon told me and from everything I've

read, the

> mortality rate is low. I believe under 2%. There are

complications but the

> most common are hernia and wound infection. I am not saying that

someone

> contemplating this surgery should just go full steam ahead with one

eye open

> but what is being said lately, sounds a bit overboard as far as

making it

> sound like anyone who gets the DS has a 50/50 chance of dying.

This surgery

> is about saving one's life, not killing you. As a pre-op with only

10 days

> to go, these posts have been hard to read. I feel I did my

homework

> thoroughly and have come a long way to get up to this point and

even with all

> of that, reading these posts has scared me more than I already am.

I can

> imagine what someone who is just starting the process and less

informed would

> think. As much as we want to protect and inform, we can't scare

people away

> either. I feel that if someone wants to talk about mortality, then

have

> statistics to back it up. Same for infection, etc. Also, keep in

mind that

> doing your homework will greatly increase your odds for a

successful outcome

> too.

>

> Now with all of that being said, I honestly feel this is the

greatest group

> I've ever joined. The info I've received from all of you is

priceless to

> me. I just needed to get this off of my chest.

>

> Sherry

>

>

>

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In a message dated 8/13/01 4:36:15 PM Eastern Daylight Time,

psbilyeu@... writes:

> I think all of us feel 1 death out of a thousand is still too much--

> life is precious--if we can gain something that protects those that

> follow--such as you in 10 days--me in 9weeks--we've accomplished a

> great thing.

>

I agree. I am feeling so much better now. I went to my meeting tonight and

am feeling much more comfortable as I did before. I even got to see scars.

:o) They weren't as bad as I imagined.

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In a message dated 8/13/01 6:24:29 PM Pacific Daylight Time,

GABS12992@... writes:

> I agree. I am feeling so much better now. I went to my meeting tonight and

> am feeling much more comfortable as I did before. I even got to see scars.

> :o) They weren't as bad as I imagined.

>

>

>

Isn't funny how we show them off...LOL I think mine is looking pretty good

already...and its only going to get better. The best part is when I do my

tummy tuck down the road...mine will get pulled down low and it won't

interfer if I want to wear something a bit daring...LOL

~~* AJ *~~

Post op 7/24/01 Open DS

self pay - Dr Baltasar -Alcoy Spain

07/24/01 BMI 64 - 415.1

08/06/01 BMI 59 - 390.2 -24.9 lbs!!!!!!!!!!~~~~

Check out the

Bellingham Support for WLS

WWW.WLSBellingham.homestead.com

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Now aren't you glad you hung in there and worked through the

feelings? If we had heard of Larry's death and not talked about it,

there is this " lingering " question in the back of your mind " what

about me " ?

Glad you're feeling better!!

Pammmi

> In a message dated 8/13/01 4:36:15 PM Eastern Daylight Time,

> psbilyeu@y... writes:

>

>

> > I think all of us feel 1 death out of a thousand is still too

much--

> > life is precious--if we can gain something that protects those

that

> > follow--such as you in 10 days--me in 9weeks--we've accomplished

a

> > great thing.

> >

>

> I agree. I am feeling so much better now. I went to my meeting

tonight and

> am feeling much more comfortable as I did before. I even got to

see scars.

> :o) They weren't as bad as I imagined.

>

>

>

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