Re: Who's making the big bucks? /Self Pay

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 8/18/01 12:18:12 PM Pacific Daylight Time,

chull1@... writes:

> On the other hand the " clinica " clearly doesn't

> have the latest gear, so their costs are much lower.

>

>

The clinica is older but they do have alot of equipment. Maybe not all the

newer high tech stuff but please don't make it sound 3rd world. They have a

room where they can do x-rays, lab work and ekgs. They have all the proper

equipment to provide good care and from what I remember of the OR...it was

very well equiped and they can handle anything that comes up. The big

hospital is up the road and in the event of things getting really serious

they can send you there for the ICU if need be. The clinica not being

overly equiped is one reason its cheaper...but by no means does it mean

people are not properly being cared for. He is in the process of plans to

upgrade and really make this place something...so I think he's working hard

to put that money together and make this an even better facility to go to. I

think he wants to move on from his other job....

~~* AJ *~~

Post op 7/24/01 Open BPD/DS

self pay - Dr Baltasar -Alcoy Spain

07/24/01 BMI 64 - 415.1

08/06/01 BMI 59 - 390.2 -24.9 lbs!!!!!!!!!!~~~~

08/16/01 BMI 58 - 387.0 -27.9 lbs!!!!!!!!!!~~~~

Check out the Bellingham Support Group

and my personal page at WWW.WLSBellingham.homestead.com

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 8/18/01 2:00:20 PM Pacific Daylight Time, sage@...

writes:

> My point is that Dr. Baltasar's fees are probably higher than the

> amount that US doctors receive from insurance companies. That is the

> question that I pose. I think that it is an interesting one to

> ponder

Thats true I'm sure...its sad that a surgeon, who spends the majority of his

life training and trying to improve his techniques and find new and better

ways to save people get paid such low fees. Unfortuntely, the drs are signing

the contracts. The problems are the insurance companies...at least in my

opinion. I have one appeal left with my insurance and I'm going to the media

and try to get my story published about having to leave the country and how

now I owe on a 15 year loan and the insurance company will now make money off

me because I'm no longer running to the dr every week, no longer on 6

prescriptions they pay for ect. So what a favor I did for them...and I have

no money...

~~* AJ *~~

Post op 7/24/01 Open BPD/DS

self pay - Dr Baltasar -Alcoy Spain

07/24/01 BMI 64 - 415.1

08/06/01 BMI 59 - 390.2 -24.9 lbs!!!!!!!!!!~~~~

08/16/01 BMI 58 - 387.0 -27.9 lbs!!!!!!!!!!~~~~

Check out the Bellingham Support Group

and my personal page at WWW.WLSBellingham.homestead.com

[Guest guest]

Nick,

I did a little research on self-pay a while back " just in case " . The

$11,000 fee for Dr. B is the total fee for everything. By comparison

Dr. Anthone's policy is not to take self-pays, but he did take one.

The total costs were $42,000 of which Dr. A only gets about $3500 (I

believe). One patient of Dr. K's payed about $25,000 for the package

deal. Dr. Rabkin's $11,000 fee does NOT include the hospital. The

total package for Dr. R would be around $35,000. By the way, these

are pre-negotiated cash up front deals. If you wait for the bill at

USC it will be somewhare around $100,000 or more!

Thus going to Dr. B is still significantly less expensive than self-

pay (at least for any Dr. in Calironia). I wonder what Dr. Welker

would charge. I imagine that Dr. K's fees are about as low as they

get. The cost of living in Delano has got to be low.

The truth is that the suregons fees don't vary all that much. They

ask for $8000-$11,000 and they usually get from $2000-$4000 from the

insurance companies. Rembmer that they don't pocket these fees. Much

of the money goes to cover the costs of the whole program (e.g. to

pay or Dawn etc).

It is the hospital that makes the real killing (hopefully not

lieterally!). USC gets about $25,000 from Aetna for a 6 day stay. At

over $4000 /day it is the most epensive rent I have every seen. LOL.

Of cousre you are paying for all the latest gadgets and gizmos. Many

of them arn't really required for the baraitric patient but that is

the way it goes. On the other hand the " clinica " clearly doesn't

have the latest gear, so their costs are much lower.

The big think about suregons like Dr. Rabkin (or Dr. Wittgrove) is

that they get 2-3x as much cash flow as the Dr's that accept

insurance. An medicare is even worse! By the way, other than

medicare, Blue Cross/Blue Shield is rumored to be the absolute worst

payer.

Also keep in mind that DS surgieries take longer than simply RNY

surgeries, yet the insurance companies do not pay proportionaly. Also

DS suregeries require much more support than do RNY suregeries. Is

it any wonder that most suregons don't do the DS! Dr. Wittgrove does

12 patients per week, Dr. Anthone does only 4 per week! OK, at

$2500 per surgery Dr. A would gross about $500,000. Sounds great,

but take out Angie's salary and 's salary and nn's salary

and then take out the cost of the office facilities and electricity

etc. I am guessing that Dr. A takes home somewhare around $200,000.

Not bad, but consider the years he has put into training where he

made no money. Also think about the hours the guy works. He gets in

by 6am and he stays until 7pm. He won't be able to keep up that pace

forever. Also consider the cost of living in the LA area.

Now Dr. K only did something like 30 surgeries that year, so he and

his wife must share something like $75,000 - eech gad - not a lot

even for Delano. On the other hand they reduced number of surgeries

gives him a more relaxed lifestyle.

Now Dr. Rabkin/Jossart would gross about $2.2 million. Figure after

expenses they are left with $1.6 million (expenses assumed more than

Dr.A's gross take). Then they each take home $800,000. Now that is

ridiculous in my opinion. True, the bay area cost of living is sky

high, but still. On the other hand this is a capatilist society and

charging that fee has not scared away enough patients to ruin his

buisness. He still makes far less than pop stars, footbal players etc.

Hull

[Guest guest]

Nick,

I did a little research on self-pay a while back " just in case " . The

$11,000 fee for Dr. B is the total fee for everything. By comparison

Dr. Anthone's policy is not to take self-pays, but he did take one.

The total costs were $42,000 of which Dr. A only gets about $3500 (I

believe). One patient of Dr. K's payed about $25,000 for the package

deal. Dr. Rabkin's $11,000 fee does NOT include the hospital. The

total package for Dr. R would be around $35,000. By the way, these

are pre-negotiated cash up front deals. If you wait for the bill at

USC it will be somewhare around $100,000 or more!

Thus going to Dr. B is still significantly less expensive than self-

pay (at least for any Dr. in Calironia). I wonder what Dr. Welker

would charge. I imagine that Dr. K's fees are about as low as they

get. The cost of living in Delano has got to be low.

The truth is that the suregons fees don't vary all that much. They

ask for $8000-$11,000 and they usually get from $2000-$4000 from the

insurance companies. Rembmer that they don't pocket these fees. Much

of the money goes to cover the costs of the whole program (e.g. to

pay or Dawn etc).

It is the hospital that makes the real killing (hopefully not

lieterally!). USC gets about $25,000 from Aetna for a 6 day stay. At

over $4000 /day it is the most epensive rent I have every seen. LOL.

Of cousre you are paying for all the latest gadgets and gizmos. Many

of them arn't really required for the baraitric patient but that is

the way it goes. On the other hand the " clinica " clearly doesn't

have the latest gear, so their costs are much lower.

The big think about suregons like Dr. Rabkin (or Dr. Wittgrove) is

that they get 2-3x as much cash flow as the Dr's that accept

insurance. An medicare is even worse! By the way, other than

medicare, Blue Cross/Blue Shield is rumored to be the absolute worst

payer.

Also keep in mind that DS surgieries take longer than simply RNY

surgeries, yet the insurance companies do not pay proportionaly. Also

DS suregeries require much more support than do RNY suregeries. Is

it any wonder that most suregons don't do the DS! Dr. Wittgrove does

12 patients per week, Dr. Anthone does only 4 per week! OK, at

$2500 per surgery Dr. A would gross about $500,000. Sounds great,

but take out Angie's salary and 's salary and nn's salary

and then take out the cost of the office facilities and electricity

etc. I am guessing that Dr. A takes home somewhare around $200,000.

Not bad, but consider the years he has put into training where he

made no money. Also think about the hours the guy works. He gets in

by 6am and he stays until 7pm. He won't be able to keep up that pace

forever. Also consider the cost of living in the LA area.

Now Dr. K only did something like 30 surgeries that year, so he and

his wife must share something like $75,000 - eech gad - not a lot

even for Delano. On the other hand they reduced number of surgeries

gives him a more relaxed lifestyle.

Now Dr. Rabkin/Jossart would gross about $2.2 million. Figure after

expenses they are left with $1.6 million (expenses assumed more than

Dr.A's gross take). Then they each take home $800,000. Now that is

ridiculous in my opinion. True, the bay area cost of living is sky

high, but still. On the other hand this is a capatilist society and

charging that fee has not scared away enough patients to ruin his

buisness. He still makes far less than pop stars, footbal players etc.

Hull

[Guest guest]

Hi -

I wasn't comparing self-pay in the US with Dr. Baltasar's fee. I was

playing with the idea of what the doctors actually receive from the

insurance company vs. Baltasar's charges. I did hear someone say

that they had prenegotiated a package in the US for around

$28,000.00. The issue isn't one of where's the best price to the

consumer, rather it is which doctors are actually banking the most

money.

As to Dr. K, I thought he performed significantly more than 30 his

first year. However, in addition to the DS, he does other surgery as

well. I'm sure it keeps the roof over his head - and the propeller

on his airplane.

Best -

Nick in Sage

[Guest guest]

Hi -

I wasn't comparing self-pay in the US with Dr. Baltasar's fee. I was

playing with the idea of what the doctors actually receive from the

insurance company vs. Baltasar's charges. I did hear someone say

that they had prenegotiated a package in the US for around

$28,000.00. The issue isn't one of where's the best price to the

consumer, rather it is which doctors are actually banking the most

money.

As to Dr. K, I thought he performed significantly more than 30 his

first year. However, in addition to the DS, he does other surgery as

well. I'm sure it keeps the roof over his head - and the propeller

on his airplane.

Best -

Nick in Sage

[Guest guest]

I really wasn't trying to cast Dr. Baltasar in any negative light. I

know, hands down, that he is the best bargain for the DS. He is

also, from the research that I have done, one of the very top

surgeons in the world. If I didn't have insurance, I'd be going to

cheaptickets.com right now.

My point is that some of our doctors in the US may be actually

receiving less than Baltasar because they are being beaten up by the

insurance companies. Granted, some of them are finding out that they

can get us to pony up the extra bucks to make up for what they losing

because of the insurance companies. All of them, even the ones who

might be criticized for overreaching for money, are well worth their

fees because of the incredible changes that they make in our lives.

My point is that Dr. Baltasar's fees are probably higher than the

amount that US doctors receive from insurance companies. That is the

question that I pose. I think that it is an interesting one to

ponder.

Best-

Nick in Sage

[Guest guest]

You said that the result was that you now have no money. What a

tragedy.

The good news is, though, that you now have a new life! Money can't

buy that for most people. I guess that in somewhat perverse way,

this surgery gives obese people an advantage that others don't have.

Best -

Nick in Sage

Dr. Keshishian

8/29/01

[Guest guest]

The good news is, though, that you now have a new life! Money can't

buy that for most people. I guess that in somewhat perverse way,

this surgery gives obese people an advantage that others don't have.>>>>>>

How true, Nick.....how true! Id rather have my life than all the money in

the world!

Judie

[Guest guest]

At 20:59 +0000 8/18/01, sage@... wrote:

>My point is that Dr. Baltasar's fees are probably higher than the

>amount that US doctors receive from insurance companies. That is the

>question that I pose. I think that it is an interesting one to

>ponder.

And my point is his fees are still lower than US doctors for self-pay

patients. Apples-Apples, not Apples-Oranges.

--stella

[Guest guest]

At 20:59 +0000 8/18/01, sage@... wrote:

>My point is that Dr. Baltasar's fees are probably higher than the

>amount that US doctors receive from insurance companies. That is the

>question that I pose. I think that it is an interesting one to

>ponder.

And my point is his fees are still lower than US doctors for self-pay

patients. Apples-Apples, not Apples-Oranges.

--stella

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 8/18/01 5:41:08 PM Pacific Daylight Time,

psbilyeu@... writes:

> After what you've said--I know Dr. B " makes out " somewhere closer to Dr.K in

> delano. Because he only does 1 per day at most.

>

>

and from what I gather not even always 5 days aweek.....LOL

~~* AJ *~~

Age 37 5'8''

Post op 7/24/01 Open BPD/DS

self pay - Dr Baltasar -Alcoy Spain

07/24/01 BMI 64 - 415.1

08/06/01 BMI 59 - 390.2 -24.9 lbs!!!!!!!!!!~~~~

08/16/01 BMI 58 - 387.0 -27.9 lbs!!!!!!!!!!~~~~

Check out the Bellingham Support Group

and my personal page at WWW.WLSBellingham.homestead.com

[Guest guest]

Chris

If you're not a lawyer you ought to be!! My goodness do you drive the

details and contingencies!! Impressive!!

After what you've said--I know Dr. B " makes out " somewhere closer to Dr.K in

delano. Because he only does 1 per day at most.

Pammi

_________________________________________________________

[Guest guest]

Chris

If you're not a lawyer you ought to be!! My goodness do you drive the

details and contingencies!! Impressive!!

After what you've said--I know Dr. B " makes out " somewhere closer to Dr.K in

delano. Because he only does 1 per day at most.

Pammi

_________________________________________________________