Re: Cured Diabetes? (was lab results)

[Guest guest]

> This is an interesting subject to persue......how can we be at risk

for

> diabetes when its cured with the surgery?

>

Judie - I guess " cure " is not the right word to use. Do any surgeons

out there say that diabetes is cured by the surgery?

I know that if you are a Type II diabetic, lose weight, exercise,

etc, and get your sugars under control, without using any

medications, you are not considered 'cured " - just under control,

according to the diabetic medical community.

And there are planty of slim, exercising, non high risk people out

there who are diabetic anyway.

So, it seems to me, that anyone can be at risk.

I think, for me, the risk is still there, based on genetic pre-

disposition.

JMHO

Ellen

DS 2/14/01

Dr. Anthone

8/16/01 231

- 79 lbs.

[Guest guest]

> This is an interesting subject to persue......how can we be at risk

for

> diabetes when its cured with the surgery?

>

Judie - I guess " cure " is not the right word to use. Do any surgeons

out there say that diabetes is cured by the surgery?

I know that if you are a Type II diabetic, lose weight, exercise,

etc, and get your sugars under control, without using any

medications, you are not considered 'cured " - just under control,

according to the diabetic medical community.

And there are planty of slim, exercising, non high risk people out

there who are diabetic anyway.

So, it seems to me, that anyone can be at risk.

I think, for me, the risk is still there, based on genetic pre-

disposition.

JMHO

Ellen

DS 2/14/01

Dr. Anthone

8/16/01 231

- 79 lbs.

[Guest guest]

Judie,

Indeed both the RNY and DS seem to " cure " diabetes in the vast

majority of cases. This is one of the key arguments that diabetics

can use to get WLS even if their policy has an exclusion. Our next

ASBS president, Dr. Poires, spent his career proving that the RNY

cured diabetes. Unfortunately for some reason Dr. Poires is very anti-

DS. The information that he quotes seems to be 10 years out of date.

Anyway, I doubt that a slim person in this country would be allowed

this procedure, though a version of BPD without gastric restriction

was done in Italy. The results was moderate weight loss and

normalization of blood suger and lipid profiles.

Hull

> Ellen,

> I have a friend who was diabetic for 18 yrs.....no longer considered

> diabetic 2 months after surgery. Her labs are perfect. She pays no

> attention to sugar and that stuff and eats whatever she wants and in

> moderation which is easy when you have the surgery as it limits how

much you

> can eat anyway. " under control " with perfect labs and being able to

eat

> sugar with no adverse affects pretty much says : " cured " to

me......my

> surgeon thinks the results gained from no more required insulin is

a pretty

> powerful reason for the surgery, even someday for diabetics who are

not

> overweight! That day just might come if we can get the drug

companies out

> of the way!!!

>

> Judie

[Guest guest]

Judie,

Indeed both the RNY and DS seem to " cure " diabetes in the vast

majority of cases. This is one of the key arguments that diabetics

can use to get WLS even if their policy has an exclusion. Our next

ASBS president, Dr. Poires, spent his career proving that the RNY

cured diabetes. Unfortunately for some reason Dr. Poires is very anti-

DS. The information that he quotes seems to be 10 years out of date.

Anyway, I doubt that a slim person in this country would be allowed

this procedure, though a version of BPD without gastric restriction

was done in Italy. The results was moderate weight loss and

normalization of blood suger and lipid profiles.

Hull

> Ellen,

> I have a friend who was diabetic for 18 yrs.....no longer considered

> diabetic 2 months after surgery. Her labs are perfect. She pays no

> attention to sugar and that stuff and eats whatever she wants and in

> moderation which is easy when you have the surgery as it limits how

much you

> can eat anyway. " under control " with perfect labs and being able to

eat

> sugar with no adverse affects pretty much says : " cured " to

me......my

> surgeon thinks the results gained from no more required insulin is

a pretty

> powerful reason for the surgery, even someday for diabetics who are

not

> overweight! That day just might come if we can get the drug

companies out

> of the way!!!

>

> Judie

[Guest guest]

> Judie - I guess " cure " is not the right

> word to use. Do any surgeons out there

> say that diabetes is cured by the surgery?

Yep. Diabetes is CURED by the DS.

Check this out. It's from Dr. Hess' long-term followup article.

First, the key sentence:

" WE CAN SAY WITHOUT HESITATION FOR THE OBESE TYPE

II DIABETIC, THIS SURGERY WILL CURE THEIR DIABETES. "

Now, here's the entire long paragraph from which that quote came.

" With the biliopancreatic bypass and the duodenal switch we have

operated on 36 diabetics, all Type II, of which 18 of them are non-

insulin dependent and 18 were insulin dependent. One patient was

taking as high as 500 units of insulin a day, but generally they were

taking insulin in the range of 40 to 50 units per day. The non-

insulin dependent patients would leave the hospital after surgery

taking no medication and have continued taking no medication since

their surgery. The insulin dependent diabetics would occasionally

take a small amount of insulin or a hypoglycemic agent for a short

time, but never more than two months following surgery. All of the

above patients, after a few months and up to seven years following

surgery, are taking no medication of any type for their diabetes.

All of them have normal blood sugars as indicated in the graph

showing the pre-operative average blood sugar and the post-operative

average blood sugar on all these patients up to 5 years (Figure 8).

The present glycosylated hemoglobin average for this group is 5.0%

(normal reference range is 4.2%-5.9%). We can say without hesitation

for the obese Type II diabetic, this surgery will cure their

diabetes. "

Tom

[Guest guest]

It's from Dr. Hess' long-term followup article.

> First, the key sentence:

>

> " WE CAN SAY WITHOUT HESITATION FOR THE OBESE TYPE

> II DIABETIC, THIS SURGERY WILL CURE THEIR DIABETES. "

Tom - thanks for the info - as usual you are full of good

information!

But, I'm still having trouble with this. OK - right now I can accept

that I am " cured " ...maybe. But, is there something about the

surgery, the malabsorbtion perhaps, that causes this, or helps with

it? I mean, besides the fact that we have lost weight, are eating

better and exercising? Because, I just can't get past the part that

many otherwise healthy, slim, exercise types, still come down with

type II diabetes. Exactly like my father.

Did my weight help bring on the disease? Certainly. Would I have

gotten it if I was slim? Who knows? Certainly my chances would be

increased.

So, it seems to me, that since I've already had it, (and quite badly,

very uncontrolled despite doing all the right things and taking 5

different meds), that when I get down to goal weight, and am

exercising, I am still at a higher risk, because of the genetic

thread. My biggest hope is that there is something in the

malabsorbtion process that affects this.

This has become my big obsession lately - the thought that i could be

back on all those crappy pills and their side affects, and the damn

needle. Not to mention the long term effects of this disaster of a

disease. Just as a side note, the reason I had this surgery in the

first place was because of my mother in law. A tiny, slim woman who

walked everywhere who became diabetic, against all odds - no family

history, etc. 2 days after she died after complications from

amputation, I phoned for my surgical consult.

Ellen

DS 2/14/01 310

Dr. Anthone

8/16/01 231

- 79 lbs.

[Guest guest]

This is a subject close to my heart. With strict diet and 2000 mg/day

of Glucophage (that's 1000 mg 2x/day) my pre-op blood sugars had a

problem staying under 150. When I had my surgery I expected to be put

on insulin post-op, at least while in the hospital. Most diabetics do

after surgery, since it's such a trauma to your body that your blood

sugar usually skyrockets. It really surprised me (and dismayed me)

that they weren't even worried about my BS. On day 2 I got a nurse to

do an accucheck - my BS was 68! And it's never gone over 100 post-op,

usually never over 80.

When I tell medical people about my diabetes being " gone " they

usually get a pitying look and say " Well, of course, you have a much

limited intake so your pancreas doesn't have to work so hard. " Then I

remind them of a diabetic's usual surgery response, the extremely

elevated BS and the insulin required. Somehow, they can never explain

why my BS dropped so dramatically, so quickly. Usually they then go

off muttering to themselves and scratching their heads. (I work with

a LOT of doctors and nurses.)

P

> > This is an interesting subject to persue......how can we be at

risk

> for

> > diabetes when its cured with the surgery?

> >

> Judie - I guess " cure " is not the right word to use. Do any

surgeons

> out there say that diabetes is cured by the surgery?

> I know that if you are a Type II diabetic, lose weight, exercise,

> etc, and get your sugars under control, without using any

> medications, you are not considered 'cured " - just under control,

> according to the diabetic medical community.

> And there are planty of slim, exercising, non high risk people out

> there who are diabetic anyway.

> So, it seems to me, that anyone can be at risk.

> I think, for me, the risk is still there, based on genetic pre-

> disposition.

> JMHO

> Ellen

> DS 2/14/01

> Dr. Anthone

> 8/16/01 231

> - 79 lbs.