Re: ADEK Water Soluble Vitamins/

[Guest guest]

;

you sound like an ardent advocate for the CF Foundation. They

are lucky to have customers who support them as terrifically as

you do.

By the way, you mentioned that the form is an 'antiquated way to

register'.

That's an interesting POV as the telephone, which you obviously

prefer is over 100 years old while internet commerce is barely a

decade old.

I am glad you are happy with the choices the CF Foundation

offers you.

Good luck,

gobo

PS,

I hope you'll read my post that responded to your prior one. I

originally thought they were duplicates since they were back to

back but I did post a unique and separate response to your prior

message as well.

>

> In a message dated 7/19/01 7:37:15 AM, duodenalswitch@y...

writes:

>

> << I just looked on the site and one of the printed conditions of

> registering as a customer is stating that one does in fact have

> the diagnosis of CF.

>

> If they go ahead and take a doc's Rx, it sounds like they are

> throwning the 'lying' or whatever it is, over to the medical

> professional.

>

> Before I read your above response, I sent them the following

> email. I will be interested in getting their reply and will share

it:

> >>

>

> I will also be interested in their reply. There are TWO ways to

register at

> Cystic Fibrosis Foundation. One is to call and provide

information. You are

> NOT asked whether you have CF but I and others have asked

point blank whether

> this is a necessity. I have talked LIVE with customer service

reps at the

> Foundation. They assured me each time that this is NOT a

requirement. The

> other format, the form you sign and fax in, is to guarantee that

you are not

> someone who is re-selling the vitamins and making a profit or

some other

> situation where you would be 'taking advantage' of the low

prices. At least,

> this is what I was told.

>

> I think the form and fax is an antiquated way to register and

perhaps they

> need to reword or adjust that form. However, registering by

phone is JUST AS

> VALID. YOu cannot just have the surgeon provide a

prescription without

> registering yourself. This must be done by you and LIVE with a

> representative. I do not think it is 'lying' to any degree or a

way

to 'get

> around' the faxed registration (I don't even HAVE a fax machine)

since I

> directly asked and informed them of my condition. ANy phone

registration

> does not require a declaration or anything to that effect. And,

this is

> Cystic Fibrosis Foundation policy. They have different methods

for

> registration by phone than by fax.

>

> Now, if someone withheld information intentionally, that to me

would be a

> form of lying. If someone does not own a fax machine and

prefers to register

> by phone, fully informing the reps that their malapsortion is

NOT a result of

> CF and the foundation states that this is not a requirement,

then that is NOT

> lying, IMHO. If Cystic Fibrosis Foundation does not put a

priority on

> updating the wording of their website, that's their perogative.

The choice

> is EITHER to fill out the form and fax it OR call to register.

Calling is

> much more immediate and accurate and I'm going to take the

word of a live

> representative over a form on a website.

>

> all the best,

>

[Guest guest]

you sound like an ardent advocate for the CF Foundation. They

are lucky to have customers who support them as terrifically as

you do.

By the way, you mentioned that the form is an 'antiquated way to

register'.

That's an interesting POV as the telephone, which you obviously

prefer is over 100 years old while internet commerce is barely a

decade old.

I am glad you are happy with the choices the CF Foundation

offers you. >>>>>

Yes, I AM glad with the choices CF Foundation offers me, thank you. Please

Gobo, the form is NOT sent via internet it is to be submitted via FAX. Yes,

in that way it is antiquated. If the registration were to be performed

online by sending an e-mail, etc. then I would consider it 'internet

commerce.' The way it is set up is very stilted --- They offer the option to

call or to print out and FAX a form. I have e-mail and internet access but

I do NOT have a fax.

And, Gobo -- I refill orders online! GASP! So, commenting about my

preference to speak with a live person rather than submit a form that does

not have any mention of my situation can hardly be considered an antiquated

way of thinking. Personally, I think just sending a form letter to the

company without trying to obtain more specific information -- and then

claiming that they are ignoring you (you did this what... within the past

week or so?) is a little unreasonable. As a matter of fact there are many

people who prefer live contact with human beings to simple automation on the

internet (or even with phone answering prompts). It can be a very useful

tool but if I want a quick answer and explanation, I will call for more

specific information.

To me, this is being proactive. We still have to deal with human beings

(darn it, right? LOL) and if we just believed everything we read as being

written in stone, then nothing would progress, no mistakes would be caught

and there would be a hell of a lot of misunderstanding going on. After all,

human interaction is still the MAIN method of getting things done at some

level. Yes, a lot can be performed purely by turning on a computer but if

there are problems or clarifications are needed -- If challenges need to be

made -- then, communication in the form of human voice/face will be quicker

and issues can be addressed more automatically.

For example, I use Oxford's online webpage. It's nice. I switched primary

physicians and ob/gyn that way. Quick. But, when I have a bill that

obviously hasn't been taken care of because the hospital is still mailing me

notices about it, I pick up the phone and CALL for God's sake and explain

the situation, find out what needs to be done, etc. That is MUCH faster than

submitting an e-mail letter explaining things to some anonymous person who

may have to pass it on to someone else and so on and so on.

all the best,

lap ds with gallbladder removal

January 25, 2001

five months post-op and still feelin' fabu!

pre-op: 307 lbs/bmi 45 (5' 9 1/2 " )

now: 235

[Guest guest]

Oh geez...not ANOTHER round of sniping, I hope.

Lets just say you CAN order Adeks from the CF foundation, and not

worry 'how' we each choose to go about it. Now let it drop....PLEEZE?

Colleen - Iowa

1-15-01

312/232/160

Dr Buchwald U of MN

> you sound like an ardent advocate for the CF Foundation. They

>

> are lucky to have customers who support them as terrifically as

>

> you do.

>

>

> By the way, you mentioned that the form is an 'antiquated way to

>

> register'.

>

> That's an interesting POV as the telephone, which you obviously

>

> prefer is over 100 years old while internet commerce is barely a

>

> decade old.

>

>

> I am glad you are happy with the choices the CF Foundation

>

> offers you. >>>>>

>

> Yes, I AM glad with the choices CF Foundation offers me, thank

you. Please

> Gobo, the form is NOT sent via internet it is to be submitted via

FAX. Yes,

> in that way it is antiquated. If the registration were to be

performed

> online by sending an e-mail, etc. then I would consider

it 'internet

> commerce.' The way it is set up is very stilted --- They offer the

option to

> call or to print out and FAX a form. I have e-mail and internet

access but

> I do NOT have a fax.

>

> And, Gobo -- I refill orders online! GASP! So, commenting about

my

> preference to speak with a live person rather than submit a form

that does

> not have any mention of my situation can hardly be considered an

antiquated

> way of thinking. Personally, I think just sending a form letter to

the

> company without trying to obtain more specific information -- and

then

> claiming that they are ignoring you (you did this what... within

the past

> week or so?) is a little unreasonable. As a matter of fact there

are many

> people who prefer live contact with human beings to simple

automation on the

> internet (or even with phone answering prompts). It can be a very

useful

> tool but if I want a quick answer and explanation, I will call for

more

> specific information.

>

> To me, this is being proactive. We still have to deal with human

beings

> (darn it, right? LOL) and if we just believed everything we read

as being

> written in stone, then nothing would progress, no mistakes would be

caught

> and there would be a hell of a lot of misunderstanding going on.

After all,

> human interaction is still the MAIN method of getting things done

at some

> level. Yes, a lot can be performed purely by turning on a computer

but if

> there are problems or clarifications are needed -- If challenges

need to be

> made -- then, communication in the form of human voice/face will be

quicker

> and issues can be addressed more automatically.

>

> For example, I use Oxford's online webpage. It's nice. I switched

primary

> physicians and ob/gyn that way. Quick. But, when I have a bill

that

> obviously hasn't been taken care of because the hospital is still

mailing me

> notices about it, I pick up the phone and CALL for God's sake and

explain

> the situation, find out what needs to be done, etc. That is MUCH

faster than

> submitting an e-mail letter explaining things to some anonymous

person who

> may have to pass it on to someone else and so on and so on.

>

> all the best,

>

> lap ds with gallbladder removal

> January 25, 2001

>

> five months post-op and still feelin' fabu!

>

> pre-op: 307 lbs/bmi 45 (5' 9 1/2 " )

> now: 235

[Guest guest]

> Oh geez...not ANOTHER round of sniping, I hope.

> Lets just say you CAN order Adeks from the CF foundation, and not

> worry 'how' we each choose to go about it. Now let it

drop....PLEEZE?

Colleen: I am just as sick and tired of sniping as anyone else -

especially since I co-moderate the boards. Yes, you can order ADEKS

from CF Foundation and NO you do NOT 'have to lie' in order to obtain

them. The fact is ANYONE who has provided information (and that has

been numerous times on the boards as people request further details,

etc.) has mentioned that they INFORMED CF Foundation that they had

WLS, not CF and it was ACCEPTABLE to the CF representative (yes, they

CALLED because that's normally what people do when they have questions

about something they read or see online or in any other printed

format).

If Gobo feels this is 'getting around' things, that's her perogative.

IF she feels the CF Foundation is unethical or unclear in that they do

not specify that use of their services can be open to other people on

their website, that's her opinion. But, to say that people blatently

have LIED and had to say they got CF is totally INCORRECT. This is

also not the information many who have ordered from CF Foundation have

clearly stated in previous posts.

All the best,

TEresa Noverr-Chin

co-moderator

lap ds with gallbladder removal

January 25, 2001

five months post-op and still feelin' fabu!

pre-op: 307 lbs/bmi 45 (5'9 1/2 "

[Guest guest]

> Oh geez...not ANOTHER round of sniping, I hope.

> Lets just say you CAN order Adeks from the CF foundation, and not

> worry 'how' we each choose to go about it. Now let it

drop....PLEEZE?

Colleen: I am just as sick and tired of sniping as anyone else -

especially since I co-moderate the boards. Yes, you can order ADEKS

from CF Foundation and NO you do NOT 'have to lie' in order to obtain

them. The fact is ANYONE who has provided information (and that has

been numerous times on the boards as people request further details,

etc.) has mentioned that they INFORMED CF Foundation that they had

WLS, not CF and it was ACCEPTABLE to the CF representative (yes, they

CALLED because that's normally what people do when they have questions

about something they read or see online or in any other printed

format).

If Gobo feels this is 'getting around' things, that's her perogative.

IF she feels the CF Foundation is unethical or unclear in that they do

not specify that use of their services can be open to other people on

their website, that's her opinion. But, to say that people blatently

have LIED and had to say they got CF is totally INCORRECT. This is

also not the information many who have ordered from CF Foundation have

clearly stated in previous posts.

All the best,

TEresa Noverr-Chin

co-moderator

lap ds with gallbladder removal

January 25, 2001

five months post-op and still feelin' fabu!

pre-op: 307 lbs/bmi 45 (5'9 1/2 "

[Guest guest]

;

The thing that I and possibly Colleen are stuck by is how ardently

you continued to try to 'justify' or support your point of view. It

certianly felt to me like you were trying to get me to change my

own mind, although I'm not sure that was your intent.

I simply stated my view without any suggestion that others would

do better to agree with me at all, yet I felt that I was trying to be

convinced to agree with yours.

Further, when I simply sent you a polite acknowledgment that

you are lucky to enjoy their services so well, you wrote another

full page statement that continued to sound like an argument in

favor of your point of view.

No one has ever challenged you or your view points. At least not

from where I sit. Colleen can speak up for herself but I don't think

she either was challenging you, yet I got the distinct impression

you are on a 'mission' to convert others to your way of thinking.

Personally, I have recently been left out when some are being

thanked for offering suggestions in some problems others have

had. This has happened twice; most recently, someone asked

about previous carpel tunnel surgeries. I was the first to speak

up yet over-looked when all the others were thanked for their

'valuable experience'. This happened over something else as

well, don't recall what it was.

I'm not criticizing the original poster for leaving me out. I'm only

pointing that all told, my experience on this list is one of

1) not feeling appreciated;

2) feeling invalidated when my point of view does not support

those of you, a moderator;

3) I've even been lambasted when I did not seem to support Deb

in the Dr. Ren controversy. That was a long time ago, so I really

don't want to revisit that one.

What I am saying is that this list continues to disappoint.

Personally, I would have preferrred you not try so hard to get me

to agree with your point of view and had been more willing to

simply let me share my own without challenging it. Am I being

overly sensitive? I don't believe so. I do not feel bruised by you,

only amazed that this has become inordinantly important.

gobo

> > Oh geez...not ANOTHER round of sniping, I hope.

> > Lets just say you CAN order Adeks from the CF foundation,

and not

> > worry 'how' we each choose to go about it. Now let it

> drop....PLEEZE?

>

> Colleen: I am just as sick and tired of sniping as anyone else -

> especially since I co-moderate the boards. Yes, you can order

ADEKS

> from CF Foundation and NO you do NOT 'have to lie' in order to

obtain

> them. The fact is ANYONE who has provided information (and

that has

> been numerous times on the boards as people request further

details,

> etc.) has mentioned that they INFORMED CF Foundation that

they had

> WLS, not CF and it was ACCEPTABLE to the CF representative

(yes, they

> CALLED because that's normally what people do when they

have questions

> about something they read or see online or in any other printed

> format).

>

> If Gobo feels this is 'getting around' things, that's her

perogative.

> IF she feels the CF Foundation is unethical or unclear in that

they do

> not specify that use of their services can be open to other

people on

> their website, that's her opinion. But, to say that people

blatently

> have LIED and had to say they got CF is totally INCORRECT.

This is

> also not the information many who have ordered from CF

Foundation have

> clearly stated in previous posts.

>

> All the best,

> TEresa Noverr-Chin

> co-moderator

> lap ds with gallbladder removal

> January 25, 2001

>

> five months post-op and still feelin' fabu!

>

> pre-op: 307 lbs/bmi 45 (5'9 1/2 "

[Guest guest]

;

The thing that I and possibly Colleen are stuck by is how ardently

you continued to try to 'justify' or support your point of view. It

certianly felt to me like you were trying to get me to change my

own mind, although I'm not sure that was your intent.

I simply stated my view without any suggestion that others would

do better to agree with me at all, yet I felt that I was trying to be

convinced to agree with yours.

Further, when I simply sent you a polite acknowledgment that

you are lucky to enjoy their services so well, you wrote another

full page statement that continued to sound like an argument in

favor of your point of view.

No one has ever challenged you or your view points. At least not

from where I sit. Colleen can speak up for herself but I don't think

she either was challenging you, yet I got the distinct impression

you are on a 'mission' to convert others to your way of thinking.

Personally, I have recently been left out when some are being

thanked for offering suggestions in some problems others have

had. This has happened twice; most recently, someone asked

about previous carpel tunnel surgeries. I was the first to speak

up yet over-looked when all the others were thanked for their

'valuable experience'. This happened over something else as

well, don't recall what it was.

I'm not criticizing the original poster for leaving me out. I'm only

pointing that all told, my experience on this list is one of

1) not feeling appreciated;

2) feeling invalidated when my point of view does not support

those of you, a moderator;

3) I've even been lambasted when I did not seem to support Deb

in the Dr. Ren controversy. That was a long time ago, so I really

don't want to revisit that one.

What I am saying is that this list continues to disappoint.

Personally, I would have preferrred you not try so hard to get me

to agree with your point of view and had been more willing to

simply let me share my own without challenging it. Am I being

overly sensitive? I don't believe so. I do not feel bruised by you,

only amazed that this has become inordinantly important.

gobo

> > Oh geez...not ANOTHER round of sniping, I hope.

> > Lets just say you CAN order Adeks from the CF foundation,

and not

> > worry 'how' we each choose to go about it. Now let it

> drop....PLEEZE?

>

> Colleen: I am just as sick and tired of sniping as anyone else -

> especially since I co-moderate the boards. Yes, you can order

ADEKS

> from CF Foundation and NO you do NOT 'have to lie' in order to

obtain

> them. The fact is ANYONE who has provided information (and

that has

> been numerous times on the boards as people request further

details,

> etc.) has mentioned that they INFORMED CF Foundation that

they had

> WLS, not CF and it was ACCEPTABLE to the CF representative

(yes, they

> CALLED because that's normally what people do when they

have questions

> about something they read or see online or in any other printed

> format).

>

> If Gobo feels this is 'getting around' things, that's her

perogative.

> IF she feels the CF Foundation is unethical or unclear in that

they do

> not specify that use of their services can be open to other

people on

> their website, that's her opinion. But, to say that people

blatently

> have LIED and had to say they got CF is totally INCORRECT.

This is

> also not the information many who have ordered from CF

Foundation have

> clearly stated in previous posts.

>

> All the best,

> TEresa Noverr-Chin

> co-moderator

> lap ds with gallbladder removal

> January 25, 2001

>

> five months post-op and still feelin' fabu!

>

> pre-op: 307 lbs/bmi 45 (5'9 1/2 "