Re: Body image--response to Donna

[Guest guest]

Double dates, anybody? It sounds like he and are a lot alike. It's so amazing to have such an open person, not playing games, just being frank and ready and willing and able. So, we can go out and they can prattle in French (and we can tag along with our less than perfect French.) What do you think? He sounds like a keeper. Robynnmanisodream wrote: Warning. If you are offended by a frank discussion of intimate, sexual relationships, plese delete this message and read no further. Thanks.Wow, Donna…You point out something that I struggle with. Body image.I've been at goal weight for over a year, and I've been single for nearly nine months. In that

time, I've dated, and on some of those dates, I've ended up in more intimate circumstances.I have never been comfortable being naked in front of a stranger, let alone someone I'm attracted to. Yes, after 11 years, when my ex saw me naked, that was no big deal. But someone new always seems like a mine field to me.Jim was a man who I met while square dancing. He is so cute, so athletic, so out of my league (or so I thought). He's got a shaved head and to small hoop earrings like Mr. Clean. He's got an olive complexion and a flirtatious way about him. I could tell he was interested. I think the way he pinched my butt and held on while we hugged (hugging is the way you thank your square in gay and lesbian square dancing) clued me in to his interest.We went out to dinner one Wednesday before square dancing class, and well, we never made to the class. In the parking garage,

at my car, he surprised me with a passionate, deep kiss, and practically plastered me to my car door. The intensity and power of his movements were intoxicating, yet he was gentle.Jim took me to his place where we could enjoy the hot tub. His clothes were off in an instant, but I was disrobing more slowly. He approached me, totally naked (wow, I thought that kind of body only existed in underwear catalogs) and began undressing me."You know, I have some scars…" I demurred. He said, "I figured you would. But you don't realize how sexy you are." And as he removed my shirt, he felt my chest scars and said, "You should be proud of what achievement these represent." He then kissed my scars, moving from my chest to my stomach (I had open RNY). "Your stomach is amazingly tight. I thought it would feel somehow, I don't know, looser." The abdominoplasty and thousands of sit

ups had made the difference.And now we come to Philippe. Oh, this man has me wondering how things will play out between us. I revealed to my dear friend Norah, how much Philippe is getting close to my heart. There is definite infatuation on both our parts. I told Norah, "Philippe looks like a husband." And just as all long-term friends understand each other's language, she knew exactly what I meant. He's not a pretty boy. He's just an average, masculine guy. The kind of guy you see on the street with a husband (or wife) and maybe a kid in tow. And you say to yourself, "How did he (she) get so lucky?" He just has this solid look that speaks to my being at a deep level.Philippe and I have not had sex, and we are taking things slowly because we both see that as something important, a milestone in the development of a relationship. But last night, as we

spoke about everything and nothing, he revealed something that hit a raw nerve. He said, "I fantasize about you all the time, and it scares me… I'm usually attracted to a different type of guy. But last Thursday… getting your emails and hearing your voice. I was in a constant state of arousal at my desk at work. You're driving me crazy." My heart sank, and I fell silent.He continued saying, "I love your nose. I want to bite you. Is it OK to bite you?" And I didn't answer. He said, "What's wrong? Did I go too far? Did I offend you?" "No, um….""Just say it, Francisco. Tell me.""You… well, I… well, you know I have body image issues, right?""Yes, we've talked about that. And I don't know what's happening to me. The guys I've been with before… well, let me just say, my ex was 6'4" and 230 lbs of muscle.""OK, now

I feel better," I said with ironic sarcasm."Let me just say Francisco, I am scared by how much I want you. I want sex between us to be wonderful, but I'm scared by the fantasy of having you."The fantasy of me? Me? How can this be? Philippe and I went on to discuss that the physical is only the window dressing and that it's the person who matters. There's obvious chemistry between us, but we'll have to see how that plays out in the bedroom, when the time is right, if it is ever right.Then I inadvertently touched on his insecurities. He said, "So… Francisco, tell me. What do you think of me? I mean, you know that I am at the mercy of my company and the INS. If I get fired (he's a biochemist), I could end up in Canada in a year. What do you feel about that?"I said, "Well, um…" struggling with my words, "I think that well, as you know, I've dated a lot

since I broke up with my ex.""Yes, I know. You've told me…""I haven't found the one, and well, I'm wanting to slow down and take a break from it all. Take a break for dating so many guys… and…""Francisco, if I am annoying you, just tell me, and I'll stop bothering you…""Oh my God, no, Philippe, no. What I'm struggling to tell you is that… What I'm afraid to tell you is the exact opposite. I only want to date you. I don't want anyone else. I want to explore where things will go with us… OK?""Why would you be afraid to tell me that? I thought you were dumping me. Here I am falling for this great guy I just met, and I think, `he's dumping me'."Falling for me. Those words stuck in my head. I like the way they sound. Maybe I've found someone who's on the same page as me. Maybe. The tone in his voice changed from hurt and

confusion to reassurance. He's been really hurt by his ex who cheated on him left and right. That's why he left everything behind and came to San Francisco to start out anew. So, Philippe, like all of us, has his deep insecurities too. And I think that's part of his attraction to me. I think he likes that fact that I'm a simple, church-going, regular Joe. Maybe he thinks I'm husband material too. If he does think that, he's right.As the conversation came to a close, he said, "Can I ask you a favor?""Sure…""Will you pray for me in church tomorrow?" he asked. That touched me deeper than he knows."You've already been in my prayers," I replied."What did you ask for?""I asked that your transition from Montreal to San Francisco be as pain free and smooth as possible, that you find connections that having meaning for you, and that you be

happy.""That is sweet. Will you light a candle for me too?""Yes, of course," I said. We said our good-byes, and soon I fell into a contented sleep in which there were many undefined, random dreams about him. Wouldn't it be wonderful if those dreams came to life?So… here I am again. My internal tapes want to tell me that I'm not good enough. My insecurities are telling me that I will be hurt once again. But one thing I've learning through all this is that I have to walk through my fear. I have to be OK with it and face it with courageous optimism. Sure, I may get hurt again, but I'll be OK. And amazingly, all these heart matters have not caused me to stray from taking care of myself. My eating and exercise regime are intact because I'm feeding myself what I need. I'm nourishing my soul with love from me, and I'm allowing the love from God to penetrate

into my soul, my core, and I'm holding it there.I never let anyone, not even God into that space where unconditional love resides. Now I feel that presence, and it's made all the difference in the world.Franciscon gastric-bypass-support-kaiser-patients , Donna Jordon <dsjordon@y...> wrote:>> Francisco> Reconstructive surgery helps make the person more sexy, or you have to keep the saggy skin. I just think all people don't understand, if they see you in clothes and you look sexy they don't understand the need for reconstructive surgery which causes pain and leaves scares. Then for WLS people it makes them feel even better about the surgery they had, which is a hard thing for many to understand in the first place. We need to feel beautiful and good about our self. There is nothing wrong with this,but not every in our lives

will understand this and we have to except this. LOL Donna>

[Guest guest]

Francisco I think things sound really great with Philippe. He has his hurts of the past and so do you, he sounds like he will love you scars or not. Life will take you where it may and I hope for you it's not hurtful again. We need to stay strong and look on the bright side of things and we can get through whatever life brings. Life can hurt, but we can survive and with time love will be found with the right person for you. I hope Philippe is the one. I have been married 24 years and I love my husband so dearly, we have had our ups and downs through life, but we manage to keep life happy. He gets depressed with life at times, but he's doing really good right now. We went on a date today, we went bowling and we had a lot of fun. After two people are together for a long time they forget to do fun simple things, always seem to busy, and this is what we are relearning. Each to enjoy things for our self and yet

make time for each other for fun, romance, sex, whatever is needed at that time. We had a great time and worked my upper body. Then came home to finish yard work and walked and did crunches, I'm sore a little but it's a good sore. I really hope the best for you. Take care. Donnamanisodream wrote: Warning. If you are offended by a frank discussion of intimate, sexual relationships, plese delete this message and read no further. Thanks.Wow, Donna…You point out something that I struggle with. Body image.I've been at goal weight for over a year, and I've been single for nearly nine months. In that time, I've dated, and on some of those dates, I've ended up in more intimate circumstances.I have never been comfortable being

naked in front of a stranger, let alone someone I'm attracted to. Yes, after 11 years, when my ex saw me naked, that was no big deal. But someone new always seems like a mine field to me.Jim was a man who I met while square dancing. He is so cute, so athletic, so out of my league (or so I thought). He's got a shaved head and to small hoop earrings like Mr. Clean. He's got an olive complexion and a flirtatious way about him. I could tell he was interested. I think the way he pinched my butt and held on while we hugged (hugging is the way you thank your square in gay and lesbian square dancing) clued me in to his interest.We went out to dinner one Wednesday before square dancing class, and well, we never made to the class. In the parking garage, at my car, he surprised me with a passionate, deep kiss, and practically plastered me to my car door. The intensity and power

of his movements were intoxicating, yet he was gentle.Jim took me to his place where we could enjoy the hot tub. His clothes were off in an instant, but I was disrobing more slowly. He approached me, totally naked (wow, I thought that kind of body only existed in underwear catalogs) and began undressing me."You know, I have some scars…" I demurred. He said, "I figured you would. But you don't realize how sexy you are." And as he removed my shirt, he felt my chest scars and said, "You should be proud of what achievement these represent." He then kissed my scars, moving from my chest to my stomach (I had open RNY). "Your stomach is amazingly tight. I thought it would feel somehow, I don't know, looser." The abdominoplasty and thousands of sit ups had made the difference.And now we come to Philippe. Oh, this man has me wondering how things will play out between

us. I revealed to my dear friend Norah, how much Philippe is getting close to my heart. There is definite infatuation on both our parts. I told Norah, "Philippe looks like a husband." And just as all long-term friends understand each other's language, she knew exactly what I meant. He's not a pretty boy. He's just an average, masculine guy. The kind of guy you see on the street with a husband (or wife) and maybe a kid in tow. And you say to yourself, "How did he (she) get so lucky?" He just has this solid look that speaks to my being at a deep level.Philippe and I have not had sex, and we are taking things slowly because we both see that as something important, a milestone in the development of a relationship. But last night, as we spoke about everything and nothing, he revealed something that hit a raw nerve. He said, "I fantasize about you all the time,

and it scares me… I'm usually attracted to a different type of guy. But last Thursday… getting your emails and hearing your voice. I was in a constant state of arousal at my desk at work. You're driving me crazy." My heart sank, and I fell silent.He continued saying, "I love your nose. I want to bite you. Is it OK to bite you?" And I didn't answer. He said, "What's wrong? Did I go too far? Did I offend you?" "No, um….""Just say it, Francisco. Tell me.""You… well, I… well, you know I have body image issues, right?""Yes, we've talked about that. And I don't know what's happening to me. The guys I've been with before… well, let me just say, my ex was 6'4" and 230 lbs of muscle.""OK, now I feel better," I said with ironic sarcasm."Let me just say Francisco, I am scared by how much I want you. I want sex

between us to be wonderful, but I'm scared by the fantasy of having you."The fantasy of me? Me? How can this be? Philippe and I went on to discuss that the physical is only the window dressing and that it's the person who matters. There's obvious chemistry between us, but we'll have to see how that plays out in the bedroom, when the time is right, if it is ever right.Then I inadvertently touched on his insecurities. He said, "So… Francisco, tell me. What do you think of me? I mean, you know that I am at the mercy of my company and the INS. If I get fired (he's a biochemist), I could end up in Canada in a year. What do you feel about that?"I said, "Well, um…" struggling with my words, "I think that well, as you know, I've dated a lot since I broke up with my ex.""Yes, I know. You've told me…""I haven't found the one, and well, I'm wanting to slow

down and take a break from it all. Take a break for dating so many guys… and…""Francisco, if I am annoying you, just tell me, and I'll stop bothering you…""Oh my God, no, Philippe, no. What I'm struggling to tell you is that… What I'm afraid to tell you is the exact opposite. I only want to date you. I don't want anyone else. I want to explore where things will go with us… OK?""Why would you be afraid to tell me that? I thought you were dumping me. Here I am falling for this great guy I just met, and I think, `he's dumping me'."Falling for me. Those words stuck in my head. I like the way they sound. Maybe I've found someone who's on the same page as me. Maybe. The tone in his voice changed from hurt and confusion to reassurance. He's been really hurt by his ex who cheated on him left and right. That's why he left

everything behind and came to San Francisco to start out anew. So, Philippe, like all of us, has his deep insecurities too. And I think that's part of his attraction to me. I think he likes that fact that I'm a simple, church-going, regular Joe. Maybe he thinks I'm husband material too. If he does think that, he's right.As the conversation came to a close, he said, "Can I ask you a favor?""Sure…""Will you pray for me in church tomorrow?" he asked. That touched me deeper than he knows."You've already been in my prayers," I replied."What did you ask for?""I asked that your transition from Montreal to San Francisco be as pain free and smooth as possible, that you find connections that having meaning for you, and that you be happy.""That is sweet. Will you light a candle for me too?""Yes, of course," I said. We said our good-byes, and soon

I fell into a contented sleep in which there were many undefined, random dreams about him. Wouldn't it be wonderful if those dreams came to life?So… here I am again. My internal tapes want to tell me that I'm not good enough. My insecurities are telling me that I will be hurt once again. But one thing I've learning through all this is that I have to walk through my fear. I have to be OK with it and face it with courageous optimism. Sure, I may get hurt again, but I'll be OK. And amazingly, all these heart matters have not caused me to stray from taking care of myself. My eating and exercise regime are intact because I'm feeding myself what I need. I'm nourishing my soul with love from me, and I'm allowing the love from God to penetrate into my soul, my core, and I'm holding it there.I never let anyone, not even God into that space where unconditional love

resides. Now I feel that presence, and it's made all the difference in the world.Franciscon gastric-bypass-support-kaiser-patients , Donna Jordon <dsjordon@y...> wrote:>> Francisco> Reconstructive surgery helps make the person more sexy, or you have to keep the saggy skin. I just think all people don't understand, if they see you in clothes and you look sexy they don't understand the need for reconstructive surgery which causes pain and leaves scares. Then for WLS people it makes them feel even better about the surgery they had, which is a hard thing for many to understand in the first place. We need to feel beautiful and good about our self. There is nothing wrong with this,but not every in our lives will understand this and we have to except this. LOL Donna>

[Guest guest]

This is beautiful Francisco and so captures the reason I started the

other group...you should really check it out. Robynn you too even if

you arent a year out I would welcome your insights and wisdom.

Huggles

> >

> > Francisco

> > Reconstructive surgery helps make the person more sexy, or you

> have to keep the saggy skin. I just think all people don't

> understand, if they see you in clothes and you look sexy they don't

> understand the need for reconstructive surgery which causes pain

and

> leaves scares. Then for WLS people it makes them feel even better

> about the surgery they had, which is a hard thing for many to

> understand in the first place. We need to feel beautiful and good

> about our self. There is nothing wrong with this,but not every in

our

> lives will understand this and we have to except this. LOL Donna

> >

>