Richmond and protein drinks

[Guest guest]

Ok, those who know me will understand that this may be straining my

tact, but here goes.

I think there are a bunch of factors going on here. The first is that

they tend to lump all protein drinks together. If people are drinking

stuff like Ensure (which was originally designed to PREVENT weight loss)

or Carnation Instant Breakfast, the results will be very different than

with a high quality, low sugar, whey based protein drink.

There are also huge differences in how the drinks are PREPARED. If you

start with a high quality whey, but then add lots of fruit or juice or

milk, you're adding tons of sugar and maybe a bit of protein, in a form

that we don't absorb very well anyway. I just use water and ice.

They may be looking at just the number of pounds lost, but I think that

is highly misleading. I think it is far better to lose 30 pounds, if it

is all fat, than 50 pounds, if 30 of that is fat, and the rest is bone

and/or muscle. With the malabsorbtion, replacing the bone and/or muscle

is MUCH harder than preserving it.

I will not pretend to be unbiased regarding this issue. When I was

researching this issue, before my own surgery, I decided to take a look

at what successful long-term posties were doing. I found that the VAST

majority of them were doing protein drinks. I decided that if I wanted

what they got, maybe I should do what they do.

For me, the factor that cinches my decision is the difference in how I

feel when I drink them, and how I feel when I don't drink them. When I

drink the protein drinks, it is MUCH easier to resist the Carb Monster.

Is all this scientific? Probably not. I would LOVE to see long-term

studies done. Unfortunately, I don't see that happening in the near

future. Part of the problem is that the folks who do supplement protein

are also more likely to take their other supplements consistently. In

addition, I think many of the medical professionals aren't getting the

full picture regarding protein supplementation. I personally know quite

a few people who LIE to their doc, not admitting that they're drinking

protein drinks, because they know that if they say they are, the doc

will have a kneejerk negative response. So the patient loses weight, and

the doc says " See, she's losing weight well, and SHE'S not doing the

drinks " when she IS drinking them.

Not sure if any of this makes any sense. I personally welcome well

documented studies regarding this issue. Until I see them, I have to

rely on what works FOR ME, as well as what works for others who have

gone before me, whom I respect.

Hope that helps!

wrote:

> I wonder why Richmond Kaiser is so against the protein drinks. Kaiser

> in SSF is for them. They tell us that if your not going to have time

> to eat a meal to at least have a protein drink. I just had my Lifesyle

> 3 class and this is the subject they talked about.

--

Eleanor Oster

eleanor@... (personal address)

www.smallboxes.com/gastricbypass.htm

San , CA

Open RNY (100 cm bypassed) 07/15/2003

P. Fisher, M.D., Kaiser Richmond (CA)

~5'9 " tall

05/09/2003 319 Orientation

07/15/2003 ~290 Surgery

Current 157±2 Goal until plastics?

[Guest guest]

I want to make very clear that I totally respect Dr. Fisher, AS A

SURGEON. I also think he is totally wrong about the protein drinks. I

think part of my willingness to separate my respect from my blind

acceptance of everything he (or any physician) says comes from my own

upbringing. My mother graduated from medical school the year before I

graduated from high school. When she was applying for medical school, it

was just before the big push to encourage women to become physicians. I

saw what she went through to complete her studies, finish her internship

and residency, and establish her own medical practice. She worked very

hard for everything she ever got. BUT, I also know that she is quite as

capable of being as full of, er, spit, as anyone else.

Part of the problem is that there has not been a lot of long-term

research on the nutritional requirements of post-RNY patients. In

addition, there is very little nutritional education in medical school.

This is not a criticism, just an observation. There are SO many subjects

that a medical student has to become proficient in, that they just can't

study everything. I do think it is unfortunate that so many

nutritionists are STILL utterly clueless about what malabsorbtion really

means. I did meet with one, who had never really heard the concept that

we absorb protein from different sources differently. And this was a

nutritionist who was affiliated with a bariatrics program. At that

point, I concluded I was on my own, and had to be extremely proactive in

educating myself as much as possible about what the changes were in my

innards, and what those changes mean. After all, who has the most to

lose? If I follow the instructions of a doctor who teaches Tums and

Carnation Instant Breakfast (and there are a LOT of bariatric surgeons

still touting that as the way to stay healthy), whose bones will crumble

and muscles (like the heart) will waste away? The doctor's? I think not.

I do look forward to seeing valid, long-term studies done on post-op

nutrition. In the meantime, I have to do what I believe to be right, for

my body, based on my own research and what works for others.

Diane Duenas wrote:

>I agree with you Eleanor. But its so hard when a doctor you really

>respect tells you not to do them. I think thats why I do them for a

>while and then feel guilty. But like you I do feel better and can

>resist snacking when I do them.

>

--

Eleanor Oster

eleanor@... (personal address)

www.smallboxes.com/gastricbypass.htm

San , CA

Open RNY (100 cm bypassed) 07/15/2003

P. Fisher, M.D., Kaiser Richmond (CA)

~5'9 " tall

05/09/2003 319 Orientation

07/15/2003 ~290 Surgery

Current 157±2 Goal until plastics?