iq testing

[Guest guest]

Very well put, RicK!

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 3/2/01 11:37:09 AM Central Standard Time,

rdill@... writes:

> BTW, there was some level of triumph when Jan's IQ numbers didn't

>

I have never seen any sign of 's abilities diminishing either as

they used to say. He never had any IQ tests till the last few years and then

only to get into a good program so I don't know what it was before. I think

they miss it by about 100 points though. The head of his school used to say

she had never seen an IQ score used to help anyone. I think there are a few

exceptions to that. Jessie

[Guest guest]

The director of the school where went said she had never seen

an IQ score used to help a child. They did not use any testing on any child,

however I don;t entirely agree. When my older daughter was in grade school I

didn't think she was doing as well as she should so I talked to the

principal. He checked and found she had one of the highest IQ's in her class.

So he

said he would make sure her teacher's knew that and would expect more of her.

That did help.

However I agree with , all they test is a person's ability to

take IQ tests. I am much better at taking the tests than is, I once

scored 175 on an I Q test and I know that is ridiculous, I also know that he is

basically smarter than I am. There are some things he just doesn't " get " but he

is often ahead of me. Some of his teachers said they saw flashes of genius.

Of course, IQ is just part of any evaluation, or should be. The

trouble with that is that our kids are often smarter than the testers. A

" tester "

once told me that read at a 2nd grade level. I told her he could read

the newspaper, was that a 2nd grade level? No answer. That day in the car

going home he read to me Lincoln's Gettysburg Address. Aloud. 2nd grade? I

think the main trouble is that testers, teachers,etc. expect our kids to do

poorly, to plateau in their teens so that is what they find. And that is the

main problem with testing.

started in school with a teacher that didn't know he couldn't

read so she taught him, along with everyone else. Not all our kids are that

lucky. More now than then, thank goodness. Jessie

[Guest guest]

The director of the school where went said she had never seen

an IQ score used to help a child. They did not use any testing on any child,

however I don;t entirely agree. When my older daughter was in grade school I

didn't think she was doing as well as she should so I talked to the

principal. He checked and found she had one of the highest IQ's in her class.

So he

said he would make sure her teacher's knew that and would expect more of her.

That did help.

However I agree with , all they test is a person's ability to

take IQ tests. I am much better at taking the tests than is, I once

scored 175 on an I Q test and I know that is ridiculous, I also know that he is

basically smarter than I am. There are some things he just doesn't " get " but he

is often ahead of me. Some of his teachers said they saw flashes of genius.

Of course, IQ is just part of any evaluation, or should be. The

trouble with that is that our kids are often smarter than the testers. A

" tester "

once told me that read at a 2nd grade level. I told her he could read

the newspaper, was that a 2nd grade level? No answer. That day in the car

going home he read to me Lincoln's Gettysburg Address. Aloud. 2nd grade? I

think the main trouble is that testers, teachers,etc. expect our kids to do

poorly, to plateau in their teens so that is what they find. And that is the

main problem with testing.

started in school with a teacher that didn't know he couldn't

read so she taught him, along with everyone else. Not all our kids are that

lucky. More now than then, thank goodness. Jessie

[Guest guest]

Yes, it is possible that an IQ test can be used against your child, but

it is possible than any evaluation, no matter how done can be used in

evil ways. On the other hand, testing does give the professionals some

measure of what they are dealing with and often is used in positive ways.

Jan was frequently given a variety of IQ tests. She never tested out of

the MR range, but in her mid teens when they warned us that she had

plateaued and we should expect her scores to diminish, they didn't.

Because IQ is set to track normal development, it can also give some

measures of the development of our kids.

IQ and inclusion ought to be separate issues, but sometimes they

aren't. You have to examine your environment and see whether you want

to permit IQ testing and perhaps whether you have any option to really

prevent it. You judge to decide whether it will be used in postive or

negative ways.

Some parents are strongly against IQ testing. Others see little harm in

using it with their children. We were in the latter category.

BTW, high IQ does not assure success in life. I went to college closely

aligned to the other kids who had academic scholarships. Many of them

were extremely bright, but as I look at success of myself and my peers,

it didn't follow IQ very closely. I've done remarkably well and I've

dealt with some significant learning deficits all my life. I have other

friends with similar stories. My genius level roommate with an

equivalent level wife just drifted off into nowhere.

Rick .. dad to Jan who still carries the label MR as part of her

protective coloring

[Guest guest]

Yes, it is possible that an IQ test can be used against your child, but

it is possible than any evaluation, no matter how done can be used in

evil ways. On the other hand, testing does give the professionals some

measure of what they are dealing with and often is used in positive ways.

Jan was frequently given a variety of IQ tests. She never tested out of

the MR range, but in her mid teens when they warned us that she had

plateaued and we should expect her scores to diminish, they didn't.

Because IQ is set to track normal development, it can also give some

measures of the development of our kids.

IQ and inclusion ought to be separate issues, but sometimes they

aren't. You have to examine your environment and see whether you want

to permit IQ testing and perhaps whether you have any option to really

prevent it. You judge to decide whether it will be used in postive or

negative ways.

Some parents are strongly against IQ testing. Others see little harm in

using it with their children. We were in the latter category.

BTW, high IQ does not assure success in life. I went to college closely

aligned to the other kids who had academic scholarships. Many of them

were extremely bright, but as I look at success of myself and my peers,

it didn't follow IQ very closely. I've done remarkably well and I've

dealt with some significant learning deficits all my life. I have other

friends with similar stories. My genius level roommate with an

equivalent level wife just drifted off into nowhere.

Rick .. dad to Jan who still carries the label MR as part of her

protective coloring

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 1/8/2005 2:08:13 AM Eastern Standard Time, JB66111@...

writes:

> The director of the school where went said she had never seen

> an IQ score used to help a child. They did not use any testing on any

> child,

> however I don;t entirely agree. When my older daughter was in grade school

> I

> didn't think she was doing as well as she should so I talked to the

> principal. He checked and found she had one of the highest IQ's in her

> class. So he

> said he would make sure her teacher's knew that and would expect more of

> her.

> That did help.

>

---

An IQ test is useful for

1) qualifying child as MR under IDEA in the first place

2) for identifying SLD (Specific Learning DIsability) category under IDEA

I've never seen it give the kind of info that is really useful and beneficial

for tracking, assessing, tailoring a program for a child with DS. Most IQ

tests are invalid if used with a child who has either OT or speech processing

issues. There are built in time factors that help score the child and if the

child has issues that are not intelligence based that interfere with the child's

ability to give the expected answer then the results are not " valid. "

This applies to both the WISC and SB (the most common IQ tests used by

schools).

If the school psych is familiar and trained in using alternative IQ

assessments then it might be OK. Otherwise push to use a skills inventory

assessment

instead.

- Becky

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 1/8/2005 2:08:13 AM Eastern Standard Time, JB66111@...

writes:

> The director of the school where went said she had never seen

> an IQ score used to help a child. They did not use any testing on any

> child,

> however I don;t entirely agree. When my older daughter was in grade school

> I

> didn't think she was doing as well as she should so I talked to the

> principal. He checked and found she had one of the highest IQ's in her

> class. So he

> said he would make sure her teacher's knew that and would expect more of

> her.

> That did help.

>

---

An IQ test is useful for

1) qualifying child as MR under IDEA in the first place

2) for identifying SLD (Specific Learning DIsability) category under IDEA

I've never seen it give the kind of info that is really useful and beneficial

for tracking, assessing, tailoring a program for a child with DS. Most IQ

tests are invalid if used with a child who has either OT or speech processing

issues. There are built in time factors that help score the child and if the

child has issues that are not intelligence based that interfere with the child's

ability to give the expected answer then the results are not " valid. "

This applies to both the WISC and SB (the most common IQ tests used by

schools).

If the school psych is familiar and trained in using alternative IQ

assessments then it might be OK. Otherwise push to use a skills inventory

assessment

instead.

- Becky

[Guest guest]

In NY, an IQ score is necessary to determine some services rendered by

medicaid. In fact for medicaid, a dx of DS will not cut it alone without a

score-

the DX does not stand alone.

Right now I wanted amanda on Alternate Assessment and there are 3 new

criteria for a child to qualify for Alternate Assessment- one of them is 'severe

cognitive delay' and or functioning level of a 5 year old. Although amanda's

functioning is above a 5 year old, I have to go with her IQ score which may in

the

eyes of the state qualify her.

I use her IQ score when it is in her favor to use it to get services or some

educational benefit that she should otherwise be entitled to just because she

has DS- but that is not always the case....

Her IQ score has never been used against her in any way.

[Guest guest]

In NY, an IQ score is necessary to determine some services rendered by

medicaid. In fact for medicaid, a dx of DS will not cut it alone without a

score-

the DX does not stand alone.

Right now I wanted amanda on Alternate Assessment and there are 3 new

criteria for a child to qualify for Alternate Assessment- one of them is 'severe

cognitive delay' and or functioning level of a 5 year old. Although amanda's

functioning is above a 5 year old, I have to go with her IQ score which may in

the

eyes of the state qualify her.

I use her IQ score when it is in her favor to use it to get services or some

educational benefit that she should otherwise be entitled to just because she

has DS- but that is not always the case....

Her IQ score has never been used against her in any way.

[Guest guest]

If they already have the alternate assessment, they are not affected. I dont

know about other states- I know that in NY things change by the minute and

NCLB (which is federal) has only proven to work against most of our kids.

[Guest guest]

If they already have the alternate assessment, they are not affected. I dont

know about other states- I know that in NY things change by the minute and

NCLB (which is federal) has only proven to work against most of our kids.

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 1/8/2005 9:22:35 PM Eastern Standard Time,

lisaneff@... writes:

Her IQ score has never been used against her in any way.

---------the IQ testing process has been used against us twice

- Becky

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 1/8/2005 9:22:35 PM Eastern Standard Time,

lisaneff@... writes:

Her IQ score has never been used against her in any way.

---------the IQ testing process has been used against us twice

- Becky

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 1/8/2005 9:22:10 PM Eastern Standard Time,

lisaneff@... writes:

are the 3 new criteria for Alternate Assessment for NY only or is the

country? Caty is on the Alt.Ass. but has never had an IQ test done (and I

really don't want to start at this late date). in WV

-----

under NCLB all states must come up with an alternate method of assessing and

tracking progress. In the past it was not uncommon for schools to get parents

to agree to exempt low performing kids from standardized testing in order to

artificailly inflate school overall scores. The alternate testing programs is

meant to stop this practice from happening

- Becky

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 1/8/2005 9:22:10 PM Eastern Standard Time,

lisaneff@... writes:

are the 3 new criteria for Alternate Assessment for NY only or is the

country? Caty is on the Alt.Ass. but has never had an IQ test done (and I

really don't want to start at this late date). in WV

-----

under NCLB all states must come up with an alternate method of assessing and

tracking progress. In the past it was not uncommon for schools to get parents

to agree to exempt low performing kids from standardized testing in order to

artificailly inflate school overall scores. The alternate testing programs is

meant to stop this practice from happening

- Becky

[Guest guest]

But it is making it very difficult to get my daughter into alternate

assessment because she does not meet the criteria of 'serverly cognigtively

delayed'

or functioning at the level of a 5 year old. Her IQ score may actually qualify

her- I hate going that route, but the DOE is making my life miserable.

How can she possibly take an 8th grade ELA (English Language Arts exam) when

she reads on a 4th grade level??????? She couldnt take the 4th grade ELA now.

She will not be taking the 8th grade test which is next week- I just found

out.

it was a hard decision for me to put her alternate assessment and not go the

regents diploma route- she is definately in what the powers that be call 'in

the gray area'- she is too high functioning to really fit the current criteria.

On the other hand, do you know what regular 9th grade math is like? The one

you have to take a regents for???? I couldnt do 9th grade math without lots

of refreshers now!

[Guest guest]

But it is making it very difficult to get my daughter into alternate

assessment because she does not meet the criteria of 'serverly cognigtively

delayed'

or functioning at the level of a 5 year old. Her IQ score may actually qualify

her- I hate going that route, but the DOE is making my life miserable.

How can she possibly take an 8th grade ELA (English Language Arts exam) when

she reads on a 4th grade level??????? She couldnt take the 4th grade ELA now.

She will not be taking the 8th grade test which is next week- I just found

out.

it was a hard decision for me to put her alternate assessment and not go the

regents diploma route- she is definately in what the powers that be call 'in

the gray area'- she is too high functioning to really fit the current criteria.

On the other hand, do you know what regular 9th grade math is like? The one

you have to take a regents for???? I couldnt do 9th grade math without lots

of refreshers now!

[Guest guest]

Since didn't have a valid IQ score in his records we had to

take him to a psychologist at KU. He was so impressed with him I was afraid it

was going to come in too high for HCBS, but the guy knew what we were there

for and made sure to make him elegible. He spent about 2 hours with him,

instead of the 20 minutes often done. And he spent time with me too.

Jessie

[Guest guest]

Since didn't have a valid IQ score in his records we had to

take him to a psychologist at KU. He was so impressed with him I was afraid it

was going to come in too high for HCBS, but the guy knew what we were there

for and made sure to make him elegible. He spent about 2 hours with him,

instead of the 20 minutes often done. And he spent time with me too.

Jessie

[Guest guest]

are the 3 new criteria for Alternate Assessment for NY only or is the

country? Caty is on the Alt.Ass. but has never had an IQ test done (and I really

don't want to start at this late date). in WV

Re: re: IQ testing

In NY, an IQ score is necessary to determine some services rendered by

medicaid. In fact for medicaid, a dx of DS will not cut it alone without a

score-

the DX does not stand alone.

Right now I wanted amanda on Alternate Assessment and there are 3 new

criteria for a child to qualify for Alternate Assessment- one of them is

'severe

cognitive delay' and or functioning level of a 5 year old. Although amanda's

functioning is above a 5 year old, I have to go with her IQ score which may in

the

eyes of the state qualify her.

I use her IQ score when it is in her favor to use it to get services or some

educational benefit that she should otherwise be entitled to just because she

has DS- but that is not always the case....

Her IQ score has never been used against her in any way.

Click reply to all for messages to go to the list. Just hit reply for

messages to go to the sender of the message.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------

[Guest guest]

are the 3 new criteria for Alternate Assessment for NY only or is the

country? Caty is on the Alt.Ass. but has never had an IQ test done (and I really

don't want to start at this late date). in WV

Re: re: IQ testing

In NY, an IQ score is necessary to determine some services rendered by

medicaid. In fact for medicaid, a dx of DS will not cut it alone without a

score-

the DX does not stand alone.

Right now I wanted amanda on Alternate Assessment and there are 3 new

criteria for a child to qualify for Alternate Assessment- one of them is

'severe

cognitive delay' and or functioning level of a 5 year old. Although amanda's

functioning is above a 5 year old, I have to go with her IQ score which may in

the

eyes of the state qualify her.

I use her IQ score when it is in her favor to use it to get services or some

educational benefit that she should otherwise be entitled to just because she

has DS- but that is not always the case....

Her IQ score has never been used against her in any way.

Click reply to all for messages to go to the list. Just hit reply for

messages to go to the sender of the message.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------

[Guest guest]

We have managed to avoid the MR issue (and the IQ testing required to

prove/disprove this) all together by having labeled as " Speech

and language impaired " for her " Qualifying handicapping condition " .

Since she is still in elementary school, we have not run into any

problems...... they ask to IQ test her, I state me reasons for refusing,

and we move on :-) Her trienial review is coming up in the spring, and

I'm sure we'll go through it once again, hee hee. Maybe they have it in

her file now " Mom absolutely, without a doubt, will refuse all IQ

testing at this time " As I always ask them...... " Have you ever had a

child in the district that had DS and did not qualify for and IEP? What

does it matter what her IQ is, you will still be providing the exact

same services! " I guess if we need an IQ test at age, I'll worry about

it them.

, mom to (9), (almost 7, DS), and (5)

RSYOSH@... wrote:

>In a message dated 1/8/2005 8:23:38 PM Eastern Standard Time,

>tcasten@... writes:

>Absolutely not true, DS is qualifying in itself, no IQ test need be

>done!

>--

>sorry Tim - you are wrong on this one.

>

>DS is not an IDEA category.

> MR is. You need to be qualified under an IDEA category to get an IEP.

>Note that your child might in fact qualify under more than one category

>(therefore actually be assigned the category " multiple disabilities " ) if you

child

>has issues not related to mental retardation - such as significant health

>issues, autism, visual impairment not correctable with glasses.

>

>

>IDEA's Categories of Disability

>Autism

>Deafness

>Deaf-blindness

>Hearing impairment

>Mental retardation

>Multiple disabilities

>Orthopedic impairment

>Other health impairment

>Serious emotional disturbance

>Specific learning disability

>Speech or language impairment

>Traumatic brain injury

>Visual impairment, including blindness

>and developmentally delayed (in a limited way until the age of 9)

>

>- Becky

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

We have managed to avoid the MR issue (and the IQ testing required to

prove/disprove this) all together by having labeled as " Speech

and language impaired " for her " Qualifying handicapping condition " .

Since she is still in elementary school, we have not run into any

problems...... they ask to IQ test her, I state me reasons for refusing,

and we move on :-) Her trienial review is coming up in the spring, and

I'm sure we'll go through it once again, hee hee. Maybe they have it in

her file now " Mom absolutely, without a doubt, will refuse all IQ

testing at this time " As I always ask them...... " Have you ever had a

child in the district that had DS and did not qualify for and IEP? What

does it matter what her IQ is, you will still be providing the exact

same services! " I guess if we need an IQ test at age, I'll worry about

it them.

, mom to (9), (almost 7, DS), and (5)

RSYOSH@... wrote:

>In a message dated 1/8/2005 8:23:38 PM Eastern Standard Time,

>tcasten@... writes:

>Absolutely not true, DS is qualifying in itself, no IQ test need be

>done!

>--

>sorry Tim - you are wrong on this one.

>

>DS is not an IDEA category.

> MR is. You need to be qualified under an IDEA category to get an IEP.

>Note that your child might in fact qualify under more than one category

>(therefore actually be assigned the category " multiple disabilities " ) if you

child

>has issues not related to mental retardation - such as significant health

>issues, autism, visual impairment not correctable with glasses.

>

>

>IDEA's Categories of Disability

>Autism

>Deafness

>Deaf-blindness

>Hearing impairment

>Mental retardation

>Multiple disabilities

>Orthopedic impairment

>Other health impairment

>Serious emotional disturbance

>Specific learning disability

>Speech or language impairment

>Traumatic brain injury

>Visual impairment, including blindness

>and developmentally delayed (in a limited way until the age of 9)

>

>- Becky

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 1/9/2005 2:04:30 AM Eastern Standard Time,

leslie-kerrigan@... writes:

>

> We have managed to avoid the MR issue (and the IQ testing required to

> prove/disprove this) all together by having labeled as " Speech

> and language impaired " for her " Qualifying handicapping condition " .

> Since she is still in elementary school, we have not run into any

> problems...... they ask to IQ test her, I state me reasons for refusing,

> and we move on :-) Her trienial review is coming up in the spring, and

> I'm sure we'll go through it once again, hee hee. Maybe they have it in

> her file now " Mom absolutely, without a doubt, will refuse all IQ

> testing at this time " As I always ask them...... " Have you ever had a

> child in the district that had DS and did not qualify for and IEP? What

> does it matter what her IQ is, you will still be providing the exact

> same services! " I guess if we need an IQ test at age, I'll worry about

> it them.

>

> , mom to (9), (almost 7, DS), and (5

---

The down side to this category is that you don't get OT/PT service

When my daughter was in Preschool in CA she was put in the " Developmentally

Delayed " category but when we got to MD (when she was 3) the school didn't

recognize the DD category (it wasn't until much later I found out I could have

fought them on this) and I tried to get her in a MD (multiple disability catego

ry) recognizing her speech issues (apraxia) and OT issues. It was a losing

battle. They did the WPSSI to put her in MR - and then used that to argue she

couldn't go to her neighborhood school. We went to DP and lost (but got the

issue

resolved another way). DP was brutal. They used the IQ results to prove to the

ALJ (Administrative Law Judge) that she was in pretty bad shape and there was

no way she could be in an Inclusion setting without a dedicated Special Ed

teacher (not mere aide) in the class with her at all times. This in spite of the

fact she knew all her letters, colors, shapes, and was generally a

well-behaved kid.

- Becky