iq testing

[Guest guest]

Don't forget, there are more criteria than IQ score that are needed to earn

an MR label.

Cheryl in VA

The AAMR Definition of Mental Retardation

Mental retardation is a disability characterized by significant limitations

both in intellectual functioning and in adaptive behavior as expressed in

conceptual, social, and practical adaptive skills.

This disability originates before age 18.

Five Assumptions Essential to the Application of the Definition 1.

Limitations in present functioning must be considered within the context of

community environments typical of the individual's age peers and culture.

2.

Valid assessment considers cultural and linguistic diversity as well as

differences in communication, sensory, motor, and behavioral factors.

3.

Within an individual, limitations often coexist with strengths.

4.

An important purpose of describing limitations is to develop a profile of

needed supports.

5.

With appropriate personalized supports over a sustained period, the life

functioning of the person with mental retardation generally will improve.

©2002 American Association on Mental Retardation.

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 1/10/05 9:49:30 AM, wildwards@... writes:

<< The AAMR Definition of Mental Retardation

Mental retardation is a disability characterized by significant limitations

both in intellectual functioning and in adaptive behavior as expressed in

conceptual, social, and practical adaptive skills.

This disability originates before age 18.

Five Assumptions Essential to the Application of the Definition 1.

Limitations in present functioning must be considered within the context of

community environments typical of the individual's age peers and culture.

2.

Valid assessment considers cultural and linguistic diversity as well as

differences in communication, sensory, motor, and behavioral factors.

3.

Within an individual, limitations often coexist with strengths.

4.

An important purpose of describing limitations is to develop a profile of

needed supports.

5.

With appropriate personalized supports over a sustained period, the life

functioning of the person with mental retardation generally will improve.

©2002 American Association on Mental Retardation. >>

Something to be a little hopeful about- its not so bad...

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 1/10/05 9:49:30 AM, wildwards@... writes:

<< The AAMR Definition of Mental Retardation

Mental retardation is a disability characterized by significant limitations

both in intellectual functioning and in adaptive behavior as expressed in

conceptual, social, and practical adaptive skills.

This disability originates before age 18.

Five Assumptions Essential to the Application of the Definition 1.

Limitations in present functioning must be considered within the context of

community environments typical of the individual's age peers and culture.

2.

Valid assessment considers cultural and linguistic diversity as well as

differences in communication, sensory, motor, and behavioral factors.

3.

Within an individual, limitations often coexist with strengths.

4.

An important purpose of describing limitations is to develop a profile of

needed supports.

5.

With appropriate personalized supports over a sustained period, the life

functioning of the person with mental retardation generally will improve.

©2002 American Association on Mental Retardation. >>

Something to be a little hopeful about- its not so bad...

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 1/10/2005 9:27:15 AM Eastern Standard Time,

wildwards@... writes:

>

>

> Labels do not drive services, they just are a source of qualifying for

> services. You can have two students with disabilities, with two different

> labels

> and their services are the same.

> Cheryl in VA

>

---------

not entirely true..

Labels can limit the types od services a child gets. Techinically a child

with speech and language doesn't get OT - the student must be qualified as

having an orthopedic involvement. ( an argument CAN be made for fine motor

involvement involving written language output however). A blind child will not

get

speech services unless that child qualifies separately as having a speech and

language issue under IDEA. A child with SED will not qualify for either speech

or

OT services based on SED alone.

However some categories are very broad and make the possible list of services

available very broad. MR and Autism are 2 such categories.

And while it is illegal for a category alone to drive placement, it IS legal

for a school to argue that the kind of services a child needs to make a

meaningful advancement to an IEP goal are too expensive to be delivered in a

full

inclusion setting. (I'ld have to dig to find the actual cases, but there was one

out of Virginia that was used against us in DP).

- Becky

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 1/10/2005 9:27:15 AM Eastern Standard Time,

wildwards@... writes:

>

>

> Labels do not drive services, they just are a source of qualifying for

> services. You can have two students with disabilities, with two different

> labels

> and their services are the same.

> Cheryl in VA

>

---------

not entirely true..

Labels can limit the types od services a child gets. Techinically a child

with speech and language doesn't get OT - the student must be qualified as

having an orthopedic involvement. ( an argument CAN be made for fine motor

involvement involving written language output however). A blind child will not

get

speech services unless that child qualifies separately as having a speech and

language issue under IDEA. A child with SED will not qualify for either speech

or

OT services based on SED alone.

However some categories are very broad and make the possible list of services

available very broad. MR and Autism are 2 such categories.

And while it is illegal for a category alone to drive placement, it IS legal

for a school to argue that the kind of services a child needs to make a

meaningful advancement to an IEP goal are too expensive to be delivered in a

full

inclusion setting. (I'ld have to dig to find the actual cases, but there was one

out of Virginia that was used against us in DP).

- Becky

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 1/11/2005 12:15:40 AM Eastern Standard Time, RSYOSH writes:

Techinically a child with speech and language doesn't get OT - the student

must be qualified as having an orthopedic involvement.

We have kids here with speech delay or severe language delay receiving

related services like OT or PT so I suppose that decision is IEP team driven,

not

label driven.

Cheryl in VA

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 1/11/2005 12:15:40 AM Eastern Standard Time, RSYOSH writes:

Techinically a child with speech and language doesn't get OT - the student

must be qualified as having an orthopedic involvement.

We have kids here with speech delay or severe language delay receiving

related services like OT or PT so I suppose that decision is IEP team driven,

not

label driven.

Cheryl in VA

[Guest guest]

My husband did an assessment on for his college class (getting another

MS in special ed.) and it actually showed what knew and NOT what he

didn't. It is a nonverbal IQ test called a TONI.

Elaine

Re: re: IQ testing

But it is making it very difficult to get my daughter into alternate

assessment because she does not meet the criteria of 'serverly cognigtively

delayed'

or functioning at the level of a 5 year old. Her IQ score may actually

qualify

her- I hate going that route, but the DOE is making my life miserable.

How can she possibly take an 8th grade ELA (English Language Arts exam) when

she reads on a 4th grade level??????? She couldnt take the 4th grade ELA now.

She will not be taking the 8th grade test which is next week- I just found

out.

it was a hard decision for me to put her alternate assessment and not go the

regents diploma route- she is definately in what the powers that be call 'in

the gray area'- she is too high functioning to really fit the current

criteria.

On the other hand, do you know what regular 9th grade math is like? The one

you have to take a regents for???? I couldnt do 9th grade math without lots

of refreshers now!

Click reply to all for messages to go to the list. Just hit reply for

messages to go to the sender of the message.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------

[Guest guest]

My husband did an assessment on for his college class (getting another

MS in special ed.) and it actually showed what knew and NOT what he

didn't. It is a nonverbal IQ test called a TONI.

Elaine

Re: re: IQ testing

But it is making it very difficult to get my daughter into alternate

assessment because she does not meet the criteria of 'serverly cognigtively

delayed'

or functioning at the level of a 5 year old. Her IQ score may actually

qualify

her- I hate going that route, but the DOE is making my life miserable.

How can she possibly take an 8th grade ELA (English Language Arts exam) when

she reads on a 4th grade level??????? She couldnt take the 4th grade ELA now.

She will not be taking the 8th grade test which is next week- I just found

out.

it was a hard decision for me to put her alternate assessment and not go the

regents diploma route- she is definately in what the powers that be call 'in

the gray area'- she is too high functioning to really fit the current

criteria.

On the other hand, do you know what regular 9th grade math is like? The one

you have to take a regents for???? I couldnt do 9th grade math without lots

of refreshers now!

Click reply to all for messages to go to the list. Just hit reply for

messages to go to the sender of the message.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 7/18/2006 10:16:26 PM Eastern Standard Time,

Loree5@... writes:

I have a question. The school wants to do a psycho educational on Micah.

We have refused permission and said we would have it done privately.

--- ask them WHY they need the psycho-ed eval. Is it to renew his

categorization? Or for some other purpose? What their response is will help you

form

your response and also tell you what type of testing to have your outside

evaluator do.

Do we

have to give them a standard IQ test (we have to have testing for a

non-verbal

child anyway).

---- You want an IQ test that is " valid " for Mcah. Depending on Micah's

verbal skills, WISC IV or SB may not even be valid. Additionally, the law

requires that more than one assesment tool be used (typically you'll see the

Vineland Scale, an inventory which measures functional and behavior skills).

Talk

to the evaluator about your concerns. Also make sure whoever does the

evaluation will be available to come to the IEP meeting afterwards to explain

testing

protocol and results.

We have to test because it has been three years since they

tested him. We had a psychological without IQ when he was three. I don't

mind

getting the number for myself but with all the trouble I have been having

with

them I don't want to let them start playing the " numbers game " . Can't I ask

for testing done that will show his age equivalent or cognitive level? Does

anyone know the law in New York? I had heard that mandatory IQ testing

didn't kick in until around 9 years old, is this correct.

----- States have the " option " of categorizing a child as Developmentally

Delayed (instead of MR or any of the other categories) thru age 9. However

they don't HAVE to do that. They can push to categorize your child under one of

the IDEA categories. Sounds like they want the IQ test to qualify Micah

under MR.

-------- Keep in mind that Micah will have to be categorized under one of

the categories (mental retardation; a hearing impairment or deafness; a speech

or language impairment; a visual impairment, including blindness; emotional

disturbance; an orthopedic impairment; autism; traumatic brain injury; an

other health impairment; or a specific learning disability) to continue to

qualify for services under IDEA.

---- MR is a tough diagnosis to swallow, because of the stigma that comes

with it. An IQ is a poor indication of total learning potential, but

unfortunately a majority of people are stuck on it. It's often used by schools

as an

excuse when a child does not progress (he has MR so we don't expect him to

progress any faster) than addressing the child's learning style (which may be

vastly different than what is being foisted on the child). So be prepared that

Micah will probably end up classified as MR... BUT... make sure your outside

eval includes a lot of information specifically addressing Micah's learning

style and appropriate accomodations necessary so that Micah can benefit from an

Inclusion setting, and continue to make good progress all around.

At least that would give

us a little more time. I know they can't keep him out of LRE but I do not

want to play this game with them. The first thing out of the elementary

school principals mouth when we approached her about an inclusive kindy a

year

and a half agowas " Well, what is his IQ score? " It is going to be a long,

hard, rocky road folks.

Loree

- Becky

[Guest guest]

Loree,

If you are paying for the test, then the eval should come straight to you

and a copy should NOT be sent to the school. Take your copy, copy it and

remove all the information you do not want shared - including the numbers.

This will drive some team members crazy - but they are those who are hung up

on numbers anyway. Someday, those professionals will get it, until then,

we just have to keep plugging away and being seen as difficult

parents...lol!

Re:IQ testing

>I have a question. The school wants to do a psycho educational on Micah.

> We have refused permission and said we would have it done privately. Do

> we

> have to give them a standard IQ test (we have to have testing for a

> non-verbal

> child anyway). We have to test because it has been three years since they

> tested him. We had a psychological without IQ when he was three. I don't

> mind

> getting the number for myself but with all the trouble I have been having

> with

> them I don't want to let them start playing the " numbers game " . Can't I

> ask

> for testing done that will show his age equivalent or cognitive level?

> Does

> anyone know the law in New York? I had heard that mandatory IQ testing

> didn't kick in until around 9 years old, is this correct. At least that

> would give

> us a little more time. I know they can't keep him out of LRE but I do

> not

> want to play this game with them. The first thing out of the elementary

> school principals mouth when we approached her about an inclusive kindy

> a year

> and a half agowas " Well, what is his IQ score? " It is going to be a

> long,

> hard, rocky road folks.

>

> Loree

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Yes, 110 or more would be good.

Roxanna

( ) IQ testing

Brie had her IQ testing today. She is going to be six in October. She was

doing parts of the test at a twelve year old level. The psychologist said

he has to score it yet, but has no doubt she will be over 110. What does

that mean? Is that good?

Stef

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[Guest guest]

100 is considered " average " 130 is considered " gifted " .

( ) IQ testing

Brie had her IQ testing today. She is going to be six in October. She was

doing parts of the test at a twelve year old level. The psychologist said

he has to score it yet, but has no doubt she will be over 110. What does

that mean? Is that good?

Stef

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Version: 7.1.405 / Virus Database: 268.11.6/428 - Release Date: 8/25/2006

[Guest guest]

lol, well - wouldn't we agree that " average " would be good? I think it is! So

110 would be good!

Roxanna

( ) IQ testing

Brie had her IQ testing today. She is going to be six in October. She was

doing parts of the test at a twelve year old level. The psychologist said

he has to score it yet, but has no doubt she will be over 110. What does

that mean? Is that good?

Stef

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Checked by AVG Free Edition.

Version: 7.1.405 / Virus Database: 268.11.6/428 - Release Date: 8/25/2006

[Guest guest]

We allowed the school to do it without much hesitation. They tested every three

years. When we went on the state's 'waiver' program, they had us have testing

done independendently and paid for it.

I always thought the numbers were low--i.e. he is really much brighter than the

numbers show. However, I was amazed that all the times he was tested the

numbers were almost the same numbers.

He's 18 now.

Best wishes to you.

Shirley

[Guest guest]

I am not sure what the general consensus *is*- I do get the feeling the trend is to not allow it.The question you want to ask is WHY? Why would the school need and IQ test? A good assesment is going to give them all the information they need.If you are getting it to qualify for SS, then do it privately and only share that number with SS.I went to a meeting here by a lawyer/advocate/parent and he said to never let them have that number- ever. His 12 yr old son has CP and some DD.I have not allowed school to do IQ testing because teachers can be just as dumb as the next person- get a low IQ score and they will KNOW for a fact that your child is not teachable. Carol in IL AIM doihavtasay1Mom to seven including , 6 with TOF, AVcanal, GERD, LS, Asthma, subglottal stenosis, and DS.My problem is not how I look. It's how you see me. Join our Down Syndrome information group - Down Syndrome Treatment/ Listen to oldest dd's music http://www.myspace.com/vennamusic----- Original Message ----From: "JoanElder@..." <JoanElder@...>EINSTEIN-SYNDROME@...; Down Syndrome Treatment ; DS-NUTRITION@...Sent: Wednesday, May 16, 2007 1:26:14 PMSubject: IQ testing

What is the general concenssion on IQ testing.

joan elder************ ********* ********* ******** See what's free at http://www.aol. com.

Don't get soaked. Take a quick peak at the forecast with the Search weather shortcut.

[Guest guest]

We have decided not to do the IQ testing as it is

mostly up to the person giving its interpretation. A

typical child would not get tested under the age of 9

in most areas. I also feel that they (schools,

districts) in our area use this number to justify not

doing more for a child with a low score. By law they

are not suppose to do that but the law does not go

behind close doors. I spoke to the psychologist who

the school recommends to parents when a dispute

happens over a score. She said that parents would be

angry to know what the staff really does with those.

She went so far as to say that the diagnositians tend

to score on the low side. She also said that once the

number is out you can't take it back so it then

becomes an uphill battle.

One question that was discussed on another group was

gift and present. The tests only allows for one

answer. If the child only knows it by the other one,

they would get marked wrong. Same can be said with

Soda and Pop. In my opinion they can do non IQ

assessments that would give them a clearer answer then

that test.

Just my opinion and the opinions of others that I have

spoken too. I know others here are comfortable with

it and I thinks that great. I know that it would work

against him in our area.

B

--- Carol in IL <ps1272000@...> wrote:

> I am not sure what the general consensus *is*- I do

> get the feeling the trend is to not allow it.

> The question you want to ask is WHY? Why would the

> school need and IQ test?

> A good assesment is going to give them all the

> information they need.

>

> If you are getting it to qualify for SS, then do it

> privately and only share that number with SS.

>

> I went to a meeting here by a lawyer/advocate/parent

> and he said to never let them have that number-

> ever. His 12 yr old son has CP and some DD.

>

> I have not allowed school to do IQ testing because

> teachers can be just as dumb as the next person- get

> a low IQ score and they will KNOW for a fact that

> your child is not teachable.

>

>

> Carol in IL AIM doihavtasay1

> Mom to seven including , 6 with TOF,

> AVcanal, GERD, LS, Asthma, subglottal stenosis, and

> DS.

>

> My problem is not how I look. It's how you see me.

>

>

> Join our Down Syndrome information group -

>

Down Syndrome Treatment/

>

> Listen to oldest dd's music

> http://www.myspace.com/vennamusic

>

>

> IQ testing

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

> What is the general concenssion on IQ

> testing.

>

> joan elder

>

>

> ************ ********* ********* ********

> See what's free at http://www.aol. com.

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

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[Guest guest]

That's reminds me of something that happened years ago to us.

Josiah had had some test and didn't do very well on it. He was 4 yo.

When I questioned them at a meeting, they told me 'for example' : he didn't

know what an egg beater was. The more I thought about it the crazier/funnier it

seemed. I immediately said, That would be my fault because when I used our

'egg beater,' He was not usually in the kitchen.

My husband insisted that there are MANY young women today that do not know what

an egg beater is or how it is used.

Best wishes to you all!

Shirley

[Guest guest]

I just had a meeting for my daughter Emma who will be starting

Kindergarten in September. All went well and I got all I wanted for her.

When the psychologist came to the part about the IQ testing that was

given, he had given me the score and then he proceeded to tell me that

she was below average intelligence/boderline mentally retarted. I

disagreed with these results but bit my lip. Who are these people who

come in and test our children!?! All they see is a snapshot of our

children. And they would never take into consideration that maybe on

the day of the testing that child was having a bad day or was tired or

not feeling well. I really don't believe in them.

The best was when he told me that she was easily distracted. Hmmmmmmm,

I thought. I didn't agree with this " Finding " either. When I asked for

an example he told me that while testing her, she didn't want to sit at

the table with him after a while - she wanted to get up and play with a

dollhouse that was in the room. What 5 year old girl is going to want

to sit a a table with a boring old guy and answer questions when there

is a dollhouse 3 feet away!?! Is that easily distracted or is that just

being smart.

Oh yea, he also told me that when he showed her a picture of an apple,

she told him what it was. He then wanted her to tell him some more abot

it. He told me that most 5 year olds say " You eat it " ... Emma said " Its

a fruit " . Go Emma!

[Guest guest]

I do not put a lot of stock in IQ tests. It totally depends on the child's mood, how they are feeling and even more importantly who the tester is! I have heard many accounts where a child was counted "wrong" on questions when the tester showed pictures and used words that MOST children of that age wouldn't know! For example: a child was shown a picture of a wrapped box with a bow. The child was asked what the picture was and the child said a Present. Because the tester had the answers in front of her, she marked the question wrong because the answer said "gift"! Another example: a child was shown several pictures and was asked to point to the "pop" this child was in the south and had no idea what "Pop" was! In the south we call it "Coke" or "Soda" but not "Pop" and the tester was from the north! So, this child was marked wrong for the question! My son, who is very intelligent, has had 3 IQ tests in his life. They ranged from

84-110! This was a span of 6 years! The 110 was from his first test and the 84 was from his last test. I know that he has not lost any intelligence over these years, in fact he has gained a lot! (the IQ of 84 was done right after he hacked into the school district computer system to change a grade he didn't like! lol) So, if you choose to get an IQ test, be sure to not take it completely to heart if the scores are lower than you expect. Because this is a very rough estimate and most of the time, in my opinion, not very accurate. Kristy Colvin IMDSA President Mom to Arron 25, 22, Tim 21 (MDS), Stevan 20 and Garrett 11 SAVE THE DATE! JUNE 29-JULY 1 MDS RESEARCH & AWARENESS CONFERENCE! www.imdsa.com

[Guest guest]

We wouldn't allow IQ testing... likes to tell the wrong answers on purpose...he thinks its funny...like when they were testing him on colors..they pointed to blue and asked 'what color is this?'

he said, "red' and rolled his eyes...I am sure he was thinking, "You're an adult, don't you know what color it is?"

also didn't know what an iron or ironing board were...we don't own either!

Oh, and for the distractability...they put in a room full of toys and giant Barney...he was OBSESSED with Barney at the time...and they were surprised he was distracted?

The other reason not to allow IQ testing in our district is inclusion is still a little illusive...we have known parents whose kids were denied inclusion based on an IQ score...and the parents were to weak, uninformed, or just believed them and went along with that information.

Depends on where you are and what they will do with the information...and if you will never move to a less accepting school district...that score follows you forever, and what does it tell you about how the kid learns? Nothing.

, Mom to 13, DS, Southern CaliforniaTo succeed in life,you need three things:a wishbone, a backbone and a funny bone.~ Reba McIntyre

Diagnosis Down Syndrome: A Site of Hope for New Parents or Parents with a Prenatal Diagnosishttp://www.leeworks.net/DDS/What to Say to Parents of a Child with a Diagnosishttp://www.leeworks.net/DDS/speech.html

Re: IQ testing

I just had a meeting for my daughter Emma who will be starting Kindergarten in September. All went well and I got all I wanted for her.When the psychologist came to the part about the IQ testing that was given, he had given me the score and then he proceeded to tell me that she was below average intelligence/boderline mentally retarted. I disagreed with these results but bit my lip. Who are these people who come in and test our children!?! All they see is a snapshot of our children. And they would never take into consideration that maybe on the day of the testing that child was having a bad day or was tired or not feeling well. I really don't believe in them.The best was when he told me that she was easily distracted. Hmmmmmmm, I thought. I didn't agree with this "Finding" either. When I asked for an example he told me that while testing her, she didn't want to sit at the table with him after a while - she wanted to get up and play with a dollhouse that was in the room. What 5 year old girl is going to want to sit a a table with a boring old guy and answer questions when there is a dollhouse 3 feet away!?! Is that easily distracted or is that just being smart.Oh yea, he also told me that when he showed her a picture of an apple, she told him what it was. He then wanted her to tell him some more abot it. He told me that most 5 year olds say "You eat it"... Emma said "Its a fruit". Go Emma!

[Guest guest]

We also will not allow IQ testing on our son. You may already know that there are position statements against IQ testing for individuals with Ds from both NDSC and Canadian Ds Society. There are also some excellent research articles that give reasons why these tests do not yield valid results for our kids. One very big factor has to do with exactly what mentioned. Kids with Ds don't seem particularly motivated to give the correct answer, unlike their typically developing peers. That may be the reason that we often see such widely varying results. Or, we see the same score, but for completely different reasons. I have a friend whose child earned an IQ score of 80. They re-tested her a few years later, and her score is now 40. In the ARD, the district said that the child was untestable during the first eval (even though the report said the score of 80 was

accurate). The district went on to state that the 40 was her true score. Even though the report for the 40 reads that the child was uncooperative and had to sit in the examiner's lap!!! (The child is 5 and too young to be given IQ tests anyway.) The parents are fighting it and getting and IEE. There are plenty of tests that measure a child's ability without generating an IQ score. If the purpose of IQ testing is to help develop IEP goals, why not use a more appropriate test for our kids? Of course, the big concern for paretns is that our child might be having one of those days when he/she is going to do the opposite of everything the examiner says. Then the child is stuck with a low score that will be distributed among educators and which will set up low expectations for your child. Or worse still, be used as a reason that he can't learn to read

and/or be the reason teachers don't put as much effort into teaching him academic skills (life skills here we come!) I think we just all have to be careful. If your child has already had the test and you think the scores are too low, you might want that documented in his permanent record. You might also want to get copies of the position statements against IQ testing for kids with Ds and staple it to the document as well. FYI, Emma's answer of fruit is the superior answer for that question and advanced for any 5 year old. So. . . "way to go Emma!" is right! Paige McElwee <sandra.mcelwee@...> wrote: We wouldn't allow IQ testing... likes to tell the wrong answers on purpose...he thinks its funny...like when they were testing him on colors..they pointed to blue and asked 'what color is this?' he said, "red' and rolled his eyes...I am sure he was thinking, "You're an adult, don't you know what color it is?" also didn't know what an iron or ironing board were...we don't own either! Oh, and

for the distractability...they put in a room full of toys and giant Barney...he was OBSESSED with Barney at the time...and they were surprised he was distracted? The other reason not to allow IQ testing in our district is inclusion is still a little illusive...we have known parents whose kids were denied inclusion based on an IQ score...and the parents were to weak, uninformed, or just believed them and went along with that information. Depends on where you are and what they will do with the information...and if you will never move to a less accepting school district...that score follows you forever, and what does it tell you about how the kid learns? Nothing. , Mom to 13, DS, Southern CaliforniaTo succeed in

life,you need three things:a wishbone, a backbone and a funny bone.~ Reba McIntyre Diagnosis Down Syndrome: A Site of Hope for New Parents or Parents with a Prenatal Diagnosishttp://www.leeworks.net/DDS/What to Say to Parents of a Child with a Diagnosishttp://www.leeworks.net/DDS/speech.html Re: IQ testing I just had a meeting for my daughter Emma who will be starting Kindergarten in September. All went well and I got all I wanted for her.When the psychologist came to the part about the IQ testing that was given, he had given me the score and then he proceeded to tell me that she was below average intelligence/boderline mentally retarted. I disagreed with these results but bit my lip. Who are these people who come in and test our children!?! All they see is a snapshot of our children. And they would never take into consideration that maybe on the day of the testing that child was having a bad day or was tired or not feeling well. I really don't believe in them.The best was when he told me that she was easily

distracted. Hmmmmmmm, I thought. I didn't agree with this "Finding" either. When I asked for an example he told me that while testing her, she didn't want to sit at the table with him after a while - she wanted to get up and play with a dollhouse that was in the room. What 5 year old girl is going to want to sit a a table with a boring old guy and answer questions when there is a dollhouse 3 feet away!?! Is that easily distracted or is that just being smart.Oh yea, he also told me that when he showed her a picture of an apple, she told him what it was. He then wanted her to tell him some more abot it. He told me that most 5 year olds say "You eat it"... Emma said "Its a fruit". Go Emma!

[Guest guest]

FYI, Emma's answer of fruit is the superior answer for that question

and advanced for any 5 year old. So. . . " way to go Emma! " is right!

>

> Paige

Thanks Paige. I thought so too.

I tried to look up the position statement against IQ testing on the

NDSC website but couldn't find it. Do you have a link you can send?

Thanks,

[Guest guest]

, I pulled it off their webpage back in March or April. I believe I found it under their FAQ's at that time. Since then, they have re-done the whole website. You may need to call them directly for it. Did you find the one from the Canadian Down Syndrome Society? It not only states its position, but gives clear reasons for the tests inappropriateness for the Ds population. Good luck. Paige PS: In my opinion, the fact that Emma overcame language issues and fine-motor issues (which pretty much make up the entirety of most IQ tests) and do as well as she did says a lot about how smart really is. Remember that her disability prevents her from fully communicating what she knows. Naturally, the score will be depressed if the basic skills required to take the test require the very areas that our kids are weakest in.

How would typically developing kids do if we told them they had to respond in sign language. They might be able to gesture enough to communicate some answers, but I bet they'd score in the MR range too. These IQ tests were not designed for kids with Ds. I've asked the school district to show me one that is, and then I'll consider it. These tests were designed for kids who had normal language and fine motor skills and a motivation to answer correctly. malsiny <malb@...> wrote: FYI, Emma's answer of fruit is the superior answer for that question and advanced for any 5 year old. So. . . "way to go Emma!" is right!> > PaigeThanks Paige. I thought so too.I tried to look up the position statement against IQ testing on the NDSC website but couldn't find it. Do you have a link you can send?Thanks,

[Guest guest]

I know our experience with this is unusual, but the IQ score has not been a

factor. The psychologist when Faith started Kdg was sure Faith would fail with

full inclusion, just because of that score. When Faith did not fail, she had

nothing to say, and retired that year. Yeah! The present psych puts no value on

that score and it is always commented at meetings that Faith does a lot with

what she's got.

I had her IQ done at 3, hoping for a low enough score to qualify for the state

Medwaiver program. I had it done by the school because we couldn't afford

private and there were no other state agencies that would do it. So, it is in

her record, but I always add that it was done at 3 and therefore unreliable.

Last year was a re-eval year and they asked what testing I wanted done, if any.

They did the Brigance, but even that is not reliable for reflecting what she can

do. The mainstream consultant did the test and commented on it extensively. She

said that Faith was able to answer questions beyond where she was required to

stop. She was amazed at the way Faith learns things...and doesn't learn things.

I think being well informed about IQ testing is important in dealing with the

school. I know there are some people who will want to limit her because of it,

but those are probably the same people who would want to limit her because she

has DS.

ette

mom to Faith (9)DS

>

> From: Carol in IL <ps1272000@...>

> Date: 2007/05/16 Wed PM 03:55:21 EDT

> Down Syndrome Treatment

> Subject: Re: IQ testing

>

>