HyperT & criminal activities; vroche0522 & Simon

[Guest guest]

For Simon & Vroche0522

> By the way, anyone read; Am J Med 2001 Apr 15;110(6):505-6

> Hyperthyroidism and criminal behavior.

>

> I have no decent medical library to hand,

I have got it for you, go to

http://www.zoe73.net/miscfiles/criminalbehaviour.pdf

I won't keep it there indefinately so if you find the link in the

archives and it doesn't work email me and I'll send you the letter

directly.

My comments would be that of the 4 patients/criminals discussed, one

already had a previous criminal record, two had previous history of

depression.

Leaving just the one patient (age 17/male) who in my book might be

able to seriously consider hyperthyroidism as a mitigating factor in

his crime (he also has the highest FT4 level of the patients

indicating that his thyrotoxicosis is more severe). However, he is

17 year old lad - perhaps peer pressure had a lot to do it. I

personally know several teenagers from " good " backgrounds who have

been drawn into the drama & excitement of crime (though I could

never figure out why myself) - and I'm pretty sure none of them have

a thyroid disorder.

Of course, the other three cases used could all put their history

down to the hyperthyroidism...

I find this whole issue interesting and I'm not sure where I stand

on it. Sure, hyperthyroidism can affect our personality in many

different ways - not always for the better - but I'm not convinced

that its effects would make you do something you weren't already

predisposed to do...

Z.

[Guest guest]

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Zoë wrote:

>

> I have got it for you, go to

> http://www.zoe73.net/miscfiles/criminalbehaviour.pdf

Thanks

> My comments would be that of the 4 patients/criminals discussed, one

> already had a previous criminal record, two had previous history of

> depression.

Depression doesn't exactly exclude thyroid disorders.

I've only experienced noticable depression with hypothyroidism, but I've

been here long enough to know that it isn't uncommon in Graves, or

related autoimmune complaints.

There is some suggestion that HPA is responsible for depression in many

euthyroid people, abnormal response to TRH is common, as well as perhaps

underlying bipolar disorder, and I suspect it is responsible for

psychosis when thyroid levels are changing.

In that sense the mental effects of thyroid disorders might be

classified into several physical causes (Depression due to fast

metabolism (neurotransmitter imbalance - keep that serotonin production

up, eat lots of carbohydrates). Depression/Psychosis due to changes in

HPA. Depression due to low metabolism, and others no doubt). I think one

individual would be very unlucky to have experienced all of these, so

our own individual experiences probably isn't the best guide.

> I

> personally know several teenagers from " good " backgrounds who have

> been drawn into the drama & excitement of crime (though I could

> never figure out why myself) - and I'm pretty sure none of them have

> a thyroid disorder.

Wrong approach, you assuming Graves would be responsible for all

societies ills, you need to look at the rate in offenders versus the

normal population, but that doesn't tell you what moral position to take

just how much more likely people with hyperthyroidism are to end up

getting caught for a specific offence.

> I find this whole issue interesting and I'm not sure where I stand

> on it. Sure, hyperthyroidism can affect our personality in many

> different ways - not always for the better - but I'm not convinced

> that its effects would make you do something you weren't already

> predisposed to do...

There is quite a lot of other stuff published, including work on

maternal child abuse and thyroid disorders. Certainly I've come across

issues of responsility for children in thyroid support groups before.

I suspect it has to be a case by case basis, but having seen clear

mental problems resulting from Graves, I'd accept it as a mitigating

factor. Although as always the mentally ill are usually more dangerous

to themselves than others.

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[Guest guest]

Hi Simon,

> > My comments would be that of the 4 patients/criminals discussed,

one

> > already had a previous criminal record, two had previous history

of

> > depression.

>

> Depression doesn't exactly exclude thyroid disorders.

I know that, which is why I later qualified it in my initial post :-)

> > I

> > personally know several teenagers from " good " backgrounds who have

> > been drawn into the drama & excitement of crime (though I could

> > never figure out why myself) - and I'm pretty sure none of them

have

> > a thyroid disorder.

>

> Wrong approach, you assuming Graves would be responsible for all

> societies ills, you need to look at the rate in offenders versus the

> normal population, but that doesn't tell you what moral position to

take

> just how much more likely people with hyperthyroidism are to end up

> getting caught for a specific offence.

Yes indeed, my concern is about this particular letter to the

American Journal of Medicine - which I'm not sure has any real value,

with the exception of brining this issue to the fore. You are right

that you would need to look at the rate in offenders vs the normal

population to get a real idea.

Anyway, what I was trying to say was that in this lad's case the fact

that he was hyperthyroid from Graves disease at the time may not be a

mitigating factor...indeed, it may not have been a factor at all.

Just because someone has Graves disease, and possibly associated

mental health issues, does not mean you can assume the bad things

they do are as a result of that. Particularly in a 17 year old - a

very impressionable age where peer pressure and self-image is a HUGE

issue. I wasn't trying to state that all of societies ills were

caused by thyroid disorders...

Interestingly, the letter stated " None of them had shown psychotic

behaviour when arrested " . If Graves induced psychosis was responsible

for their crimes - as we have been discussing - would they not have

shown evidence of it at arrest? Just a question...after all,

psychosis is a major mental disorder right? and if it were a factor

in their crimes would they not still be displaying it at arrest? Just

trying figure this out...

> I suspect it has to be a case by case basis, but having seen clear

> mental problems resulting from Graves, I'd accept it as a mitigating

> factor.

I would agree that it would have to be on a case by case basis. I too

have seen clear mental problems resulting from Graves, but as I've

already said I'm not convinced that this would make someone do

something they were not already pre-disposed to do...

Of course, everyone is affected differently and maybe I'm wrong here,

but that is just my opinion.

If it were to be used as a mitigating factor I would want to be real

clear that the Graves was the *only* possible explanation for out of

character behaviour.....i.e. the person has never done anything like

this ever before and there is no other possible reason for them doing

it. I think it would be incredibly dangerous to use it as a

mitigating factor otherwise - especially to Graves patients as a

community who have already had enough of being branded as nuts &

hypochondriacs and wouldn't want to be labelled as criminals as

well....

Just my thoughts,

Z.