Re: ENZYME DISCUSSIONS

[Guest guest]

If I can hit the delete button when it comes to mattress discussions,

you can hit the delete button when it comes to talk about enzymes.

This diet helped some, but it is NOT the solution for my son. The

reason I am still on it is because my son is allergic to casein and

gluten. I am NOT wrong for my CAREFULLY researched decision to use

enzymes in order to stop my child's seriously distended belly and 2-3

day poop cycles.

I have NEVER discouraged anybody from doing this diet. We don't slip

on this diet. I am so anal I have driven away friends and family. I

don't go on playdates. I am housebound. That is how serious I take

this diet. But it is not making my little boy better.

There are other options out there and parents have the right to hear

about them. True, just like vaccinations and breastfeeding, you can

offer only what you are doing for your family and why, and leave it

for another parent to decide (and contact you offlist if they'd like

more information), but most people don't know how to research

archives and need to know there are other options.

We don't need to discuss enzymes in great detail, but that they are

out there and are working WONDERS in people's lives cannot be

ignored, no matter how hard you try. You have the right in your

family to never try enzymes. Don't tell me I should not do this with

my child. I would never presume to tell you that you would make your

child better if you did them.

>The GFCF diet is a way of eating, a new lifestyle for

> many. They have an enzyme list, why can't those interested just go

>there

> and leave this to discussions about being GFCF, not how not to be.

Why? Because I belong to both. My child uses enzymes AND he is

GFCF. I have every right to be on this list. And like I said, there

are plenty of topics that come up that don't interest me (no offense

to anybody out there). Enzymes interest me a great deal. I am

grateful that it was mentioned HERE so that I could pursue it further

off list. If you are going to tie the hands of people on this topic

then I propose that ALL OT's be completely avoided as that is the

only fair way to proceed. It is not right for a few people to tell

me what OT is allowed and which one isn't. That is far too

controlling and cult-like.

[Guest guest]

On Fri, 06 Jul 2001 23:42:39 -0000 " MomToTwoKids "

> . You have the right in your

> family to never try enzymes. Don't tell me I should not do this

> with

> my child. I would never presume to tell you that you would make

> your

> child better if you did them.

.

CALM DOWN LADY - this is going too far. Were you told not to take

enzymes? Not by me you weren't. But yet people are telling how you can

stop GFCF diet and do enzymes. That is wrong to say. I never said they

shouldn't say that they use tyhem or whatever, but to discouage the diet

is wrong. Do they have calming down enzymes? I will have no further

response to any enzyme matter, should I go on their list and tell them to

eliminate them with the GFCF diet and stop spending money on enzymes? By

the way, I was emailed privately by MANY who feel this enzyme thing has

gone too far with the others and how they are in agreement that it is

confusing to them just starting out and by others that have been on this

diet and dedicated to it and that the GFCF diet should not be discouaged

and replaced with enzyme usage.

in New York

*

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[Guest guest]

Well this topic is getting very hot again, and though I normally sit

on the sidelines and watch I am going to add my two cents.

If there are new enzymes coming along I want to hear a little about

them with possibly a source to follow for information other than

testamonials.

But with enzymes (and with other topics at times) I see very similar

messages, often reading like promos although not always, appearing on

multiple boards related to autism at about the same time and often

being repeated over and over again with minor variations. Ad nauseum.

Whether this is well meaning or not, the repetition is annoying to

say the least. Sure I am interested in many things related to autism

and sure I can ignore threads that don't interest me, but the pattern

I see really is not helpful or useful and when repeated just wastes

precious bandwidth.

So my take (as I prepare to get behind my firewall and vanish for a

while)is that enough is enough and while a few messages on enzymes is

fine on the GFCF board if I wanted to get more info or spend all of

my time reading about them I could easily shift over to the list or

web site I have heard about again and again and again (ad nauseum).

so for the moment - so long and thanks for all the fish

jan

[Guest guest]

>Were you told not to take

> enzymes? Not by me you weren't.

These are your words:

Hey, many pills, even vits, yeaRS later you'll hear of complications,

internal damage, etc. - GFCF eating is natural.

Pop a pill and away go all your troubles.

that maybe isn'e even around long enough to know the possible long

term side effects

*****

So yes, you implied that GFCF is the ONLY way to do this.

>Do they have calming down enzymes?

Quite honestly, I am not sure what you mean by this. Are you trying

to insult me? Please note that I am not one of the people pushing

enzymes down anybody's throat. But how dare you tell me or anybody

else they can't even talk about it period? If you want people to

stay away from over-advertising, then fine. But don't try and

control any discussion about it by telling us this is so OT that it

doesn't belong here. Anything related to making our children better

has some place at this site. Odviously, the only thing the members

have completely in common is that we are trying to implement a GFCF

diet in our kids lives. With 1986 people, don't you think some

people are doing more than this to help our children fulfill their

potential? Perhaps it is you that should spin off your own list -

GFCF_ONLY_AND_NOTHING_ELSE.

>I will have no further

> response to any enzyme matter, should I go on their list and tell

>them to

> eliminate them with the GFCF diet and stop spending money on

enzymes?

If you went on the enzyme list you would find them A LOT more open

than you are acting right now. That list has many people doing a

GFCF diet AND trying enzymes. You know, there are carbohydrate

malabsorption disorders out there that require some assistance with

enzymes in order for kids just to digest and get simple vitamins and

nutrients from their food. Not everybody on that list is attempting

to get away from the diet!!!!

>By

> the way, I was emailed privately by MANY who feel this enzyme thing

has

> gone too far with the others and how they are in agreement that it

is

> confusing to them

There are 1986 people on this list. I doubt you have been contacted

by them all, so that you have been contacted by 'many' does not

impress me. Quite frankly, I believe people are intelligent enough

to work through their confusion - in fact to delete my email if they

chose.

I found enzymes confusing at first as well. I skipped enzyme posts

until I had a better handle of stuff. And I most certainly don't

rely on this list to help me make decisions regarding them. However,

it was a small discussion on the topic that caught my interest and I

finally started looking at it further.

I don't underestimate people's abiltity to do what is best by their

children. I found the whole mattress discussion confusing and deeper

than I can go right now. But one day, because it was mentioned here,

I may search the archives and come back to it. Being exposed to

something only makes me smarter. I did not ask people to stop

talking about it because my mind could not take it.

[Guest guest]

I just went and reread the description of our group. I decided if I

could find anything on it that forbid enzyme discussions then I would

go along with it regardless of my personal feelings.

....Appropriate topics for discussion on the list include anything at

all related to diet and autism spectrum disorders-including GFCF but

also yeast, nitrates/nitrites, dyes, vitamins, minerals,supplements,

dealing with teachers, friends, schools, outings, siblings, testing,

etc...Please keep general off topic information off the list as much

as possible and clearly mark off-topic posts.

Enzymes don't qualify as off-topic according to this. If in addition

to a GFCF diet I use enzymes, I am allowed to discuss them -

according to the rules that we all agreed to when we signed up. I do

not see any difference in enzymes from 'vitamins, minerals and

supplements' (which we also do in all three) as long as I do not on

this list try and tell anybody that they can skip the diet (which I

have never said). We use this stuff in ADDITION to the diet. We also

avoid nitrates/nitrites and dyes and are using Nystatin for a yeast

infection.

According to the description of our group, I don't have to mark posts

OT when I discuss enzymes. However, out of respect for people, I

will. I only ask for that respect in return - allow those of us with

interest to read these posts - and use your delete button for posts

you find irrelevant. You are not walking in my shoes, watching a

child suffer from a bloated belly full of 2-3 day old food because

the GFCF only diet is NOT working for us in regards to his diarrhea.

It may be OT for you because you never have an intention of using

enzymes. But for parents who have tried this diet for a awhile,

don't tie our hands behind our backs as far as exposure to *some*

information.

You may think I am being overemotional. I don't have any problem

with people saying - your post sounded like an advertisement - you

claim all this stuff about enzymes - well, send me some hard

evidence - what I have a problem with is anybody saying we cannot

even bring up this at all and somebody implying that those of us

using enzymes are not serious about being GFCF and that we are

somehow endangering our child by giving them enzymes. I am emotional

because I dislike it when people tell me I can't talk about

something - and in this case - I didn't even bring it up - I am just

one of the 'many' out there who like to read about enzyme posts and

don't want them stopped.

>

> >Were you told not to take

> > enzymes? Not by me you weren't.

>

> These are your words:

>

> Hey, many pills, even vits, yeaRS later you'll hear of

complications,

> internal damage, etc. - GFCF eating is natural.

>

> Pop a pill and away go all your troubles.

>

> that maybe isn'e even around long enough to know the possible long

> term side effects

>

> *****

> So yes, you implied that GFCF is the ONLY way to do this.

>

>

> >Do they have calming down enzymes?

>

> Quite honestly, I am not sure what you mean by this. Are you

trying

> to insult me? Please note that I am not one of the people pushing

> enzymes down anybody's throat. But how dare you tell me or anybody

> else they can't even talk about it period? If you want people to

> stay away from over-advertising, then fine. But don't try and

> control any discussion about it by telling us this is so OT that it

> doesn't belong here. Anything related to making our children

better

> has some place at this site. Odviously, the only thing the members

> have completely in common is that we are trying to implement a GFCF

> diet in our kids lives. With 1986 people, don't you think some

> people are doing more than this to help our children fulfill their

> potential? Perhaps it is you that should spin off your own list -

> GFCF_ONLY_AND_NOTHING_ELSE.

>

>

> >I will have no further

> > response to any enzyme matter, should I go on their list and tell

> >them to

> > eliminate them with the GFCF diet and stop spending money on

> enzymes?

>

> If you went on the enzyme list you would find them A LOT more open

> than you are acting right now. That list has many people doing a

> GFCF diet AND trying enzymes. You know, there are carbohydrate

> malabsorption disorders out there that require some assistance with

> enzymes in order for kids just to digest and get simple vitamins

and

> nutrients from their food. Not everybody on that list is

attempting

> to get away from the diet!!!!

>

> >By

> > the way, I was emailed privately by MANY who feel this enzyme

thing

> has

> > gone too far with the others and how they are in agreement that

it

> is

> > confusing to them

>

> There are 1986 people on this list. I doubt you have been

contacted

> by them all, so that you have been contacted by 'many' does not

> impress me. Quite frankly, I believe people are intelligent enough

> to work through their confusion - in fact to delete my email if

they

> chose.

>

> I found enzymes confusing at first as well. I skipped enzyme posts

> until I had a better handle of stuff. And I most certainly don't

> rely on this list to help me make decisions regarding them.

However,

> it was a small discussion on the topic that caught my interest and

I

> finally started looking at it further.

>

> I don't underestimate people's abiltity to do what is best by their

> children. I found the whole mattress discussion confusing and

deeper

> than I can go right now. But one day, because it was mentioned

here,

> I may search the archives and come back to it. Being exposed to

> something only makes me smarter. I did not ask people to stop

> talking about it because my mind could not take it.

>

>

[Guest guest]

I never meant this to get out of hand. I just thought

it would be nice if could post the enzymes group

address, because people were getting concerned. If

you will read the original post and 's response,

everything was peachy to that point. I know has

stopped the diet (No, not the from TX) and I

know some of us feel that if you've stopped the diet

for whatever reason, it's not right to try to sway

those of us who have struggled for months to finally

get it right to quit and go with enzymes. This is,

after all, GFCF Kids. I am committed to my son

staying GFCF, he's allergic to milk and nearly every

grain anyway. I really don't mind seeing the enzyme

posts, but I am concerned about the newbies being so

strongly pressed by those who have quit the diet.

The last time there was a blowup, I formed

GFCFdiet for those that want GFCF diet

support, not enzyme support. It is still availabe to

any who may want to join. I subscribe to both, and

will continue to. I encourage those who are

interested in enzymes to subscribe to their group as

well as GFCFKids. There's no reason to go ballistic

over this. As for the mattress issue, maybe you

didn't read the post. Researchers are linking crib

mattresses to autism and leaky gut. I would like to

damn well know who is responsible for my child having

to live like this. I can't turn my head and say " I'm

not interested " . I want the practice of putting

arsenic and antimony in crib mattresses to stop so

that no other child will have to live like my baby

does. I will post no other messages about it to this

group--any info will be posted to

www.gfcfdiet , unless some want to be

emailed privately.

=====

__________________________________________________

[Guest guest]

Our DAN doctor is recommending we add enzymes to Austin's diet. I ordered

them yesterday. Also, at a recent conference with all of the DAN presenters

there, the enzymes were discussed. From what I learned, it is something

that should be considered. It is so difficult to be 100% gfcf. We strive

to be -- but I suspect Austin gets things he shouldn't at school and else

where (rarely -- but it does happen). We are chelating and seeing good

results. Our doctor says that there is hope that one day Austin will be

able to go off the diet. That is my dream for him.

I have always suspected that Austin may have a problem with corn--he doesn't

digest it well and sometimes gets diarreha from it. His problem with corn

is nothing like the gluten and casien -- but I suspect the enzymes might

help with this.

Personally, I love to read as much about other's experiences as possible --

That's why I weed through so many posts every day.

Someone on the list referred to the group as being like the neighborhood

mom's standing over the fence swapping recipes and stories. I remember

those days -- I also remember the occassional disagreement. It is human

nature -- imho.

Anyway, that's my two cents.

Evelyn

Mom to Austin (recovered from pdd) and (nt)

5 yr old twins

[Guest guest]

Whenever I join a new list, I always wait several days or even weeks

before I post a message, so I can get the " feel " of the list. I read

the rules, look at the messages, and learn what is expected on that

specific list. I don't like the unknown and looking stupid, I get

that enough in my life already, because I am AS and I am basically

socially clueless.

I have three of my four children on gfcfdiet because they all have

food issues, even tho only one of them is autistic. But they react to

all but 7 foods, and I knew it was unrealistic to expect them to be

limited to only those foods for possibly the rest of their lives, so I

did try enzymes from a source which it appears I should not mention

on this message board because certain people will be upset about that.

With these enzymes, my kids can now eat many foods they could not eat

previously, but not all foods.

I am a member of the enzyme list, as well as the " unregistered " [or

whatever it is called] gfcfdiet message board, as well as so many

other autism and other type lists. On the enzyme and the

" unregistered " list, people talk all the time about things which sure

seem to me to be off-topic, like NAET and right now something called

metagenesis which I have no idea what that is, and other things like

that. Personally I think these things are relatively strange and

bordering on " quackery " , but there are other parents who believe in

them and they say those things have helped their children, so who am I

to say my opinion is best, or that these parents do not know what is

the best interest of their own children? And who am I to say parents

are confused and therefore other alternatives should be kept from them

until they are " settled " into the way of thinking that I personally

believe is correct? I just ignore those messages with which I

disagree, but that is easier for me because I read the messages on the

message board and I do not receive them in my email box each day.

I have found that each list has its own personality, based on what the

owners of the list require and also by the members who participate on

that list, and I have found that this list here is very rule-oriented,

which is very confusing for me, because there seem to be unwritten

rules that the other people here know about, but that I seem to be

unable to understand.

I do not like that people on message boards and lists which are

ostensibly for " information and support " , post messages which are

inflammatory and consist of personal attacks. There are other message

boards that cater to that type of message, and at least the

participants are aware of that aspect of the nature of that forum

before they choose to participate. However, most of the time I can

see the difference between strong opinions and personal attacks.

Someone could post an opinion like " wow these enzymes work so great

that I don't need to do this diet any more " and other people would

either reply " wow I am so happy for you, altho I personally believe

this diet is required, but I am happy you have found a solution for

your own child " , or even " please be careful about abandoning this

diet, I know it has done wonders for my own child " , but never the type

of things which I am seeing on this message board right now, people on

those lists with that opinion would just keep it to themselves, or try

to phrase it nicely as a disagreement.

On the enzyme list, I even posted a link to an " interesting "

photograph [which I clearly marked as off-topic], and I know there

must have been some people who did not like the idea that I would do

that, but the only people who publicly posted to that message were

people who had fun with it, just like I did. I would never do that on

this list tho, because it is more rule-oriented, and I am glad I have

learned that before I made that sort of mistake here.

I believe everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but I personally

find that this list here is more in line with my " opinion " forums,

where people are actually relatively free to attack and flame each

other. That is good to know, because now I am very glad I do not

actively participate on this forum so much as I do on my other forums

which are primarily for information and support, because the

rule-orientation of this forum and the fact that I do not understand

the unwritten rules is very unsettling to me. It is nice to learn the

personality of this forum, people here seem less tolerant of

differences of opinion than on other forums, I need to stay within the

written rules so I do not do something " wrong " , and I hate being more

different and having more social difficulty than is already necessary

in my life. So I will lurk here and try to learn what are these

unwritten rules, perhaps post messages that I am very sure are within

the rules as written, and try not to directly disagree too much.

There are other forums where differences of opinion are more

tolerated and even welcome.

But this message here will hopefully be my only message which is

entirely off-topic, so far as I understand what is ON topic. This

list does have a list owner/moderator, and because that person/s do

own the list, I do respect ownership and I believe it is required that

I do my best to attempt to conform, to the best of my ability, to the

desires of the owner/s.

[Guest guest]

You are not walking in my shoes, watching a

> child suffer from a bloated belly full of 2-3 day old food because

> the GFCF only diet is NOT working for us in regards to his diarrhea.

Hi ...this part of your post struck me because my son was the

same way until a few weeks ago when I switched his soy milk over to

rice milk. His bloating went away as did his diarrhea. For the

first time ever, he has solid stools. Just thought I would throw

that out for you...I know what you mean about dealing with the

diarrhea and bloating. Good luck!

Cathy

[Guest guest]

I sont think your post about mattress contamination was off topic and if you

get any more information as for me I would like you to post it. Lis aF

RE: Enzyme Discussions

> I never meant this to get out of hand. I just thought

> it would be nice if could post the enzymes group

> address, because people were getting concerned. If

> you will read the original post and 's response,

> everything was peachy to that point. I know has

> stopped the diet (No, not the from TX) and I

> know some of us feel that if you've stopped the diet

> for whatever reason, it's not right to try to sway

> those of us who have struggled for months to finally

> get it right to quit and go with enzymes. This is,

> after all, GFCF Kids. I am committed to my son

> staying GFCF, he's allergic to milk and nearly every

> grain anyway. I really don't mind seeing the enzyme

> posts, but I am concerned about the newbies being so

> strongly pressed by those who have quit the diet.

> The last time there was a blowup, I formed

> GFCFdiet for those that want GFCF diet

> support, not enzyme support. It is still availabe to

> any who may want to join. I subscribe to both, and

> will continue to. I encourage those who are

> interested in enzymes to subscribe to their group as

> well as GFCFKids. There's no reason to go ballistic

> over this. As for the mattress issue, maybe you

> didn't read the post. Researchers are linking crib

> mattresses to autism and leaky gut. I would like to

> damn well know who is responsible for my child having

> to live like this. I can't turn my head and say " I'm

> not interested " . I want the practice of putting

> arsenic and antimony in crib mattresses to stop so

> that no other child will have to live like my baby

> does. I will post no other messages about it to this

> group--any info will be posted to

> www.gfcfdiet , unless some want to be

> emailed privately.

>

>

> =====

>

>

> __________________________________________________

>

[Guest guest]

I thought we could not do soy milk because the Great Plains

Laboratory found kids who drink it had high casein levels?

Ethan gets about 8 ounces of rice milk per day, across several

watered down sippy cups. He does get rice in other ways, too. We

did 16 days rice free with no poop changes so figured it was not what

was causing the bloating/diarrhea. Did we not try long enough?

Ethan has been GF for over 2.5 months and CF for almost 1.5 months.

Thanks!

> You are not walking in my shoes, watching a

> > child suffer from a bloated belly full of 2-3 day old food

because

> > the GFCF only diet is NOT working for us in regards to his

diarrhea.

>

> Hi ...this part of your post struck me because my son was the

> same way until a few weeks ago when I switched his soy milk over to

> rice milk. His bloating went away as did his diarrhea. For the

> first time ever, he has solid stools. Just thought I would throw

> that out for you...I know what you mean about dealing with the

> diarrhea and bloating. Good luck!

>

> Cathy