Shot in the dark

July 7, 2003

I'm a musician. I just do back-up's so singing isn't really an

issue for me. I did know that Hyperthyroidism is caused by

Graves. Not that that makes too much sense to me.

I need to speak with my new Doc. about splitting up my PTU to 3

times a day. I didn't know that could be an issue.I've heard that I

could actually get off PTU all together, and I bet that could

happen when and if I stop drinking and smoking and making

other changes in my activltiy and diet. -I am vegetarian as well.

And I've also heard that Hyper can eventually lead to Hypo -which

I'm really worried about.

-

> > I'm a musician

>

> Are you a musician only or also a singer? That along with the

vision

> concerns that were raised would be major concerns of mine.

You want to

> protect your voice, so you want to maximize the efficacy of the

ATDs.

>

> Do you know if your hyperthyroidism is caused by Graves? If so

you want

> to be very careful about when and how you go off the PTU - you

have to be

> sure the TSI antibodies are sufficiently low.

>

> Have you been on ATDs continuously? 5 years is a long time,

but not too

> long. If this is what it takes to keep you going 100 mg./ day isn't

> terribly much.

>

> > also feel pretty crappy most of the time.

> Hyper or hypo? If you still have hyper symptoms you may want

to consider

> taking the PTU the way it's recommended - in 3 doses, which

will require

> pill splitting but which will give you continuous coverage. If

you're

> hypo, you may want to consider BRT (block and replace

therapy), which is

> adding thyroid hormone to your regimen to balance you out

and enable you

> to stay on the PTU. If you are hypo it may seem simpler and

more logical

> to just go off the PTU (if you do, do it slowly) but if the

> hyperthyroidism is caused by Graves it's a bit more complex

than that.

>

> Take care, Fay

>

__________________________________________________

______________

> The best thing to hit the internet in years - Juno SpeedBand!

> Surf the web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER!

> Only $14.95/ month - visit www.juno.com to sign up today!

July 7, 2003

Forgot to mention - Elaine on this website is a pathology technician

(probably not the proper title - sorry Elaine) - anyway... she's written a

book that really helps with getting the hang of the terminology and

considering alternative treatment options -

it's called " Graves' Disease - a practical guide " and is written by Elaine

A. and .

You can get it on Amazon I think.

Also - I was vegetarian for 12 years or so too - part of me wonders if the

lack of protein combined with the smoking drinking lifestyle was a poor

combination!

DAWN ROSE

Reply-To: graves_support

To: graves_support

Subject: Re: Shot in the dark

Date: Mon, 07 Jul 2003 18:39:05 -0000

You've said a lot of stuff that rings true for me too. When I was

really sick the palpatations were a daily thing, as was constant

sweating, shortness of breath and the shakes. I thought it was

due to my unhealthy lifestyle. I'm sure that did not help and

excaserbated perhaps brought on my Hyperthyroid.

And I can relate so well to having my entire identity wrapped in a

world/image of drinking and partying. That's what my band does.

We hang out late, and get in trouble.

I've seen a bit of what your talking about when you mentioned

copper and mineral imbalances.

At some point, I know I have to quit this. I think. -Like I said I'm

aware of the choices I make and sometimes don't know why I

make them, and other times I realize that's the way I am and the

way I want to live.

-

> Hi ,

>

> When I got sick with Graves', I was a theatre staging technician

and had

> been in that line of work for about ten years. I started off

working in

> Variety theatres where worn out rock and roll bands and tribute

bands would

> tour(!), sometimes I'd sit and follow spot the wrestling, and

sometimes I

> was lucky enough to stage manage on shows like WOMAD

festivals. The last few

> years in that line of work were in Opera in big cities, which I

loved as

> there was a lot of set building etc.

>

> I was never on a music tour and never really lived the heady life

that you

> are leading as I was always afraid of taking drugs. I'd had

problems with

> palpitations as young as 18 - (though Graves' never officially

exploded

> until I was 32) and I instinctively believed I would die if I took

any class

> A drugs so I never did -but I was there for the late nights etc.

>

> I loved drinking beer and smoking! I LOVED shift work, loved

late nights. I

> had to give up work about six months before I finally got

diagnosed with

> Graves' - I was shaking alot and getting thin and kept dropping

things (a

> shifter from the top of a tallescope, whoops) which is not a

great state for

> a stagehand to be in. I think alot of people I was working with

just

> thought I was taking too many drugs and drinking alot - I told

them I

> wasn't, but they smiled knowingly. In fact I was going home

and sleeping

> and getting up and working - and that was all. I didn't know

what was wrong

> with me, but I knew I couldn't do my job well and saw myself

just becoming

> more unreliable and more unpleasant to be around as time

went on, so I gave

> it up.

>

> My whole identity was wrapped up in the theatre world and

work that I was

> doing. It was very hard to let it go but push came to shove for

me when I

> realised I was too ill to enjoy what I was doing anyway -so what

was the

> point. I am not saying you should give up your lifestyle or your

work, I'm

> just saying I couldn't do that work and live that lifestyle with the

kind of

> extreme hyperthyroidism that I experienced.

>

> My feeling is that I had to get out of that world to heal, at least

for a

> time. In my world - on the tech side of things anyway in the

performing

> arts - it seemed that people were either drinking and taking

drugs, or were

> in AA, or NA - as I've said, I was always moderate and being

female that was

> easier to navigate I think, but I didn't find a place that helped

me within

> the culture of my work. I think if I had known what was wrong

with me

> earlier I might have been able to work out how to be and how to

manage my

> environment better... but it wasn't to be and I had to quit before I

got

> diagnosed.

>

> I gave up smoking and drinking beer - I'm not suggesting that

you do, you

> sound quite settled into your decisions, but this is what

happened with me.

>

> It was easy to stop drinking because it made me feel so ill, ill I

thought I

> would die- alcohol seemed to go straight from being tipsy to

having a

> hangover before I even got home. I realised I was drinking

chiefly, because

> it made all my friends feel comfortable and not because I

enjoyed it. So I

> stopped and it really annoyed people and made life difficult for

a time.

>

> Smoking was more difficult and I couldnt' have done it without

hypnosis...

> which is something I had often sneered at before I did it, but I'd

tried

> everything and " quit " about 30 times. In retrospect (though

many will

> disagree with me) I think sudden dramatic changes to your

chemnical intake

> can place a great strain on your body and I am not sure that

going from

> smoking 30 cigarettes a day to smoking none, was a very good

thing for me.

>

> There is an intersting web site called iThyrod (search Google

for iThyroid)

> written and researched by a bloke called - his theory is

that Hyper and

> Hypo are triggered and made worse by mineral imbalances....

>

> His point of view is that Copper deficiency is a major problem

for Graves'

> sufferers - I find it interesting that beer has a fair amount of

copper in

> it - and so does chocolate and I wonder if this would account

for my

> lifestyle betweent the ages of 20 and 30!!

>

> Cigarettes have a lot of Cadmium in them and this mineral is

also supposed

> to be significant though I can't remember the mechanisms of

how.

> HOWEVER.... the biggest incentive for giving up smoking for

me was my fear

> of blindness - I had a look at some of those horrific " END

STAGE " Graves eye

> disease pictures - and read that smoking was the single

biggest factor

> affecting the severity of people's eye disease. It took the

pleasure out of

> every puff I took.

>

> ERRRR what else. Oh yeah - have you tried taking any herbs?

(!)

> I found that once I started using herbs to help get me better, my

Graves'

> antibody levels dropped out of view and I went into remission

(very slowly).

> The herbs come in tincutres and you take them in drops -

bugleweed is the

> one that directly affects your antibody levels and I found them

very

> powerful.

>

> Alright then... all the best - I've rambled rather aimlessly, but

hope some

> of it makes sense.

>

> Dawn Rose

>

> DAWN ROSE

>

> From: Terry ding <aldente@s...>

> Reply-To: graves_support

> To: <graves_support >

> Subject: Re: Shot in the dark

> Date: Sun, 06 Jul 2003 20:08:07 -0700

>

> Hi ,

>

> Interesting dilemma you present. You sound like you've made

your choices

> with your eyes open, and imply you know that the stuff you

mention is not

> necessarily the best for your health. Smoking, especially has

been shown to

> exacerbate eye symptoms--yet there have been people in this

group who smoke

> despite Graves eye disease; I myself drink coffee, and while

having a glass

> of wine with dinner is not probably what you mean by drinking, I

do that

> too. We all make our choices, and quality of life issues come

with us.

>

> I have a good friend who is out on a big tour as one of the

cooks, so I know

> a bit about your lifestyle. You can get carried along into things

that are

> not necessarily what your body or mind need at the time.

Without a doubt,

> it's a difficult position to be in when hyper. You need to make

sure not to

> forget your meds, you need regular sleep, and stress definitely

makes hyper

> people worse. You need to be aware that Graves Rage, for

instance, is a real

> symptom, and not just a personality quirk. If your symptoms

are bad, it

> means you are not being monitored properly. If you're not being

monitored,

> you are at risk for problems with your heart, a place you don't

really want

> to go.

>

> One thing you can do that will help you is to get regular testing,

and know

> what your levels of Free T4 and Free T3 are, and make sure

your meds are at

> the right level for you. Another thing is, you really ought to be

dividing

> it into 3 daily doses spaced 8 hrs. apart. Especially with PTU

that's

> important to avoid swings and help your body heal. It may be

hard to do it,

> but you'll probably feel better, as the half-life of PTU is fairly

short and

> you therefore experience too many swings. I have a theory,

quite unproven

> medically but I know it's so for me, that taking the meds in such

a way as

> to keep your body from having any big swings in level helps the

thyroid heal

> and normalize. I personally take Tapazole not PTU, but I think

it's the same

> no matter what drug you use.

>

> We're a pretty friendly group of people, and over the years

dealing with

> this disease and helping each other with it, we've become

pretty

> knowledgeable too. Feel free to post lab results, ask

opinions--or just join

> in the discussions. Given that we're spread out all over the

world with

> people from the US to the UK and Australia and even

occasionally Thailand,

> there might just be somebody awake when you want to talk.

>

> Terry

>

> > From: " Rosenberg " <immediately12@y...>

> > Reply-To: graves_support

> > Date: Mon, 07 Jul 2003 00:19:49 -0000

> > To: graves_support

> > Subject: Shot in the dark

> >

> > Hey, I figured I'd ask if there's anyone else in this group with

a

> > similar lifestyle to mine so that we may be able to chat and

> > discuss our choices, etc...

> > I'm 31 years old. I smoke, drink, take drugs every so often

and

> > am Hyperthyroid. I've been on Proply. I take 50MG twice a

day,

> > usually with coffee in the morning and alchohol at night.

> > I was really sick when I was finally diagnosed with 2 very

scary

> > visits to the emergency room about 5 years ago.

> > I'm a musician so I tour a lot and hang out late and have fun.

I

> > also feel pretty crappy most of the time.

> > Anyway, more later if there's others out there who share my

late

> > nights.

> >

> > -------------------------------------

> > The Graves' list is intended for informational purposes only

and is not

> > intended to replace expert medical care.

> > Please consult your doctor before changing or trying new

treatments.

> > ----------------------------------------

> > DISCLAIMER

> >

> > Advertisments placed on this yahoo groups list do not have

the

> endorsement of

> > the listowner. I have no input as to what ads are attached to

emails.

> >

>

------------------------------------------------------------------------------

> > --------

> >

July 8, 2003

I actually own that book and have gotten a good amount of

knowledge out of it. I keep coming back to it. I think the

vegetarian lifestyle is just fine with Graves.

-

> > Hi ,

> >

> > When I got sick with Graves', I was a theatre staging

technician

> and had

> > been in that line of work for about ten years. I started off

> working in

> > Variety theatres where worn out rock and roll bands and

tribute

> bands would

> > tour(!), sometimes I'd sit and follow spot the wrestling, and

> sometimes I

> > was lucky enough to stage manage on shows like WOMAD

> festivals. The last few

> > years in that line of work were in Opera in big cities, which I

> loved as

> > there was a lot of set building etc.

> >

> > I was never on a music tour and never really lived the heady

life

> that you

> > are leading as I was always afraid of taking drugs. I'd had

> problems with

> > palpitations as young as 18 - (though Graves' never officially

> exploded

> > until I was 32) and I instinctively believed I would die if I took

> any class

> > A drugs so I never did -but I was there for the late nights etc.

> >

> > I loved drinking beer and smoking! I LOVED shift work, loved

> late nights. I

> > had to give up work about six months before I finally got

> diagnosed with

> > Graves' - I was shaking alot and getting thin and kept

dropping

> things (a

> > shifter from the top of a tallescope, whoops) which is not a

> great state for

> > a stagehand to be in. I think alot of people I was working

with

> just

> > thought I was taking too many drugs and drinking alot - I told

> them I

> > wasn't, but they smiled knowingly. In fact I was going home

> and sleeping

> > and getting up and working - and that was all. I didn't know

> what was wrong

> > with me, but I knew I couldn't do my job well and saw myself

> just becoming

> > more unreliable and more unpleasant to be around as time

> went on, so I gave

> > it up.

> >

> > My whole identity was wrapped up in the theatre world and

> work that I was

> > doing. It was very hard to let it go but push came to shove for

> me when I

> > realised I was too ill to enjoy what I was doing anyway -so

what

> was the

> > point. I am not saying you should give up your lifestyle or

your

> work, I'm

> > just saying I couldn't do that work and live that lifestyle with

the

> kind of

> > extreme hyperthyroidism that I experienced.

> >

> > My feeling is that I had to get out of that world to heal, at least

> for a

> > time. In my world - on the tech side of things anyway in the

> performing

> > arts - it seemed that people were either drinking and taking

> drugs, or were

> > in AA, or NA - as I've said, I was always moderate and being

> female that was

> > easier to navigate I think, but I didn't find a place that helped

> me within

> > the culture of my work. I think if I had known what was wrong

> with me

> > earlier I might have been able to work out how to be and how

to

> manage my

> > environment better... but it wasn't to be and I had to quit

before I

> got

> > diagnosed.

> >

> > I gave up smoking and drinking beer - I'm not suggesting

that

> you do, you

> > sound quite settled into your decisions, but this is what

> happened with me.

> >

> > It was easy to stop drinking because it made me feel so ill,

ill I

> thought I

> > would die- alcohol seemed to go straight from being tipsy to

> having a

> > hangover before I even got home. I realised I was drinking

> chiefly, because

> > it made all my friends feel comfortable and not because I

> enjoyed it. So I

> > stopped and it really annoyed people and made life difficult

for

> a time.

> >

> > Smoking was more difficult and I couldnt' have done it

without

> hypnosis...

> > which is something I had often sneered at before I did it, but

I'd

> tried

> > everything and " quit " about 30 times. In retrospect (though

> many will

> > disagree with me) I think sudden dramatic changes to your

> chemnical intake

> > can place a great strain on your body and I am not sure that

> going from

> > smoking 30 cigarettes a day to smoking none, was a very

good

> thing for me.

> >

> > There is an intersting web site called iThyrod (search

Google

> for iThyroid)

> > written and researched by a bloke called - his theory is

> that Hyper and

> > Hypo are triggered and made worse by mineral

imbalances....

> >

> > His point of view is that Copper deficiency is a major

problem

> for Graves'

> > sufferers - I find it interesting that beer has a fair amount of

> copper in

> > it - and so does chocolate and I wonder if this would account

> for my

> > lifestyle betweent the ages of 20 and 30!!

> >

> > Cigarettes have a lot of Cadmium in them and this mineral

is

> also supposed

> > to be significant though I can't remember the mechanisms

of

> how.

> > HOWEVER.... the biggest incentive for giving up smoking

for

> me was my fear

> > of blindness - I had a look at some of those horrific " END

> STAGE " Graves eye

> > disease pictures - and read that smoking was the single

> biggest factor

> > affecting the severity of people's eye disease. It took the

> pleasure out of

> > every puff I took.

> >

> > ERRRR what else. Oh yeah - have you tried taking any

herbs?

> (!)

> > I found that once I started using herbs to help get me better,

my

> Graves'

> > antibody levels dropped out of view and I went into

remission

> (very slowly).

> > The herbs come in tincutres and you take them in drops -

> bugleweed is the

> > one that directly affects your antibody levels and I found them

> very

> > powerful.

> >

> > Alright then... all the best - I've rambled rather aimlessly, but

> hope some

> > of it makes sense.

> >

> > Dawn Rose

> >

> > DAWN ROSE

> >

> > From: Terry ding <aldente@s...>

> > Reply-To: graves_support

> > To: <graves_support >

> > Subject: Re: Shot in the dark

> > Date: Sun, 06 Jul 2003 20:08:07 -0700

> >

> > Hi ,

> >

> > Interesting dilemma you present. You sound like you've

made

> your choices

> > with your eyes open, and imply you know that the stuff you

> mention is not

> > necessarily the best for your health. Smoking, especially has

> been shown to

> > exacerbate eye symptoms--yet there have been people in

this

> group who smoke

> > despite Graves eye disease; I myself drink coffee, and while

> having a glass

> > of wine with dinner is not probably what you mean by

drinking, I

> do that

> > too. We all make our choices, and quality of life issues come

> with us.

> >

> > I have a good friend who is out on a big tour as one of the

> cooks, so I know

> > a bit about your lifestyle. You can get carried along into

things

> that are

> > not necessarily what your body or mind need at the time.

> Without a doubt,

> > it's a difficult position to be in when hyper. You need to make

> sure not to

> > forget your meds, you need regular sleep, and stress

definitely

> makes hyper

> > people worse. You need to be aware that Graves Rage, for

> instance, is a real

> > symptom, and not just a personality quirk. If your symptoms

> are bad, it

> > means you are not being monitored properly. If you're not

being

> monitored,

> > you are at risk for problems with your heart, a place you don't

> really want

> > to go.

> >

> > One thing you can do that will help you is to get regular

testing,

> and know

> > what your levels of Free T4 and Free T3 are, and make sure

> your meds are at

> > the right level for you. Another thing is, you really ought to be

> dividing

> > it into 3 daily doses spaced 8 hrs. apart. Especially with PTU

> that's

> > important to avoid swings and help your body heal. It may be

> hard to do it,

> > but you'll probably feel better, as the half-life of PTU is fairly

> short and

> > you therefore experience too many swings. I have a theory,

> quite unproven

> > medically but I know it's so for me, that taking the meds in

such

> a way as

> > to keep your body from having any big swings in level helps

the

> thyroid heal

> > and normalize. I personally take Tapazole not PTU, but I

think

> it's the same

> > no matter what drug you use.

> >

> > We're a pretty friendly group of people, and over the years

> dealing with

> > this disease and helping each other with it, we've become

> pretty

> > knowledgeable too. Feel free to post lab results, ask

> opinions--or just join

> > in the discussions. Given that we're spread out all over the

> world with

> > people from the US to the UK and Australia and even

> occasionally Thailand,

> > there might just be somebody awake when you want to talk.

> >

> > Terry

> >

> > > From: " Rosenberg " <immediately12@y...>

> > > Reply-To: graves_support

> > > Date: Mon, 07 Jul 2003 00:19:49 -0000

> > > To: graves_support

> > > Subject: Shot in the dark

> > >

> > > Hey, I figured I'd ask if there's anyone else in this group

with

> a

> > > similar lifestyle to mine so that we may be able to chat

and

> > > discuss our choices, etc...

> > > I'm 31 years old. I smoke, drink, take drugs every so often

> and

> > > am Hyperthyroid. I've been on Proply. I take 50MG twice a

> day,

> > > usually with coffee in the morning and alchohol at night.

> > > I was really sick when I was finally diagnosed with 2 very

> scary

> > > visits to the emergency room about 5 years ago.

> > > I'm a musician so I tour a lot and hang out late and have

fun.

> I

> > > also feel pretty crappy most of the time.

> > > Anyway, more later if there's others out there who share

my

> late

> > > nights.

> > >

> > > -------------------------------------

> > > The Graves' list is intended for informational purposes

only

> and is not

> > > intended to replace expert medical care.

> > > Please consult your doctor before changing or trying new

> treatments.

> > > ----------------------------------------

> > > DISCLAIMER

> > >

> > > Advertisments placed on this yahoo groups list do not

have

> the

> > endorsement of

> > > the listowner. I have no input as to what ads are attached

to

> emails.

> > >

> >

> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------

> > > --------

> > >

July 11, 2003

Like other people who've come down with Graves', I loved existing on cigarettes

and coffee. Perhaps there's something about being hyper that makes them

especially enjoyable. I did stop drinking after a bout of Hep B at age 25. And I

guess that's my point. Eventually the damage to your body gets serious enough

that you may need to rescue yourself.

Cigarettes and Graves' are a particular problem, as they seem to be strongly

linked to worsening the eye disease. I wish I'd known this during the hot phase

of my eye disease, as I would have avoided smoke and the few I bummed and maybe

wouldn't be suffering with bulging, irritated eyes now. It's tough to avoid the

smoke though, as the bars are filled with it, and it's tough to explain to

people that it's a serious problem.

I loved cigarettes ( " Mother Nicotine " ) and spent years using the patch and then

the gum. I only stopped the gum when I was diagnosed with Graves. Like Dawn

Rose, I'd probably try hypnosis if I still needed to quit. But as far as things

that force us to change bad habits--there's no harm in heeding the warning

signs. My boyfriend smoked everyone else under the table until, at age 45, he's

crippled with emphysema (can't walk 50 feet). He'll bum a cigarette whenever he

can, though, and still buys them occasionally, I think. My father's smoking

didn't slow him down until age 80, when a massive lung tumor turned into a brain

tumor (common with lung cancer) and turned him into a near-vegetable before

killing him.

I had a tough time changing from the " I'll sleep when I'm dead " mentality. Of

course the man who wrote that line, Warren Zevon, is now dying from lung cancer,

made worse, he says, by the " tactical error " of not going to a doctor for 25

years. I blame the cigarette mfgs. rather than ourselves, as it's a tough

addiction. But there's no shame in trying to adapt your lifestyle to survive.

Best wishes,

B.

July 11, 2003

Hi ,

A couple suggestions. First of all, when you're drinking nobody really has

to know what's in the glass. Second, as a cold-turkey former smoker, I just

want to let you know it is possible to do it, you just have to have a

compelling reason. For me it was my baby's asthma (I'd cut down during

pregnancy to 2 cigs a day, but my husband chain smoked, and after my baby

was born I went right back up to the pack-a-day level). Well, we almost lost

that child--nothing can be scarier! He is now 21 years old, and quite

healthy, and neither of us have had a cigarette for 20 years plus. It only

hurt really bad for about the first 5.

Is there a point where you take a break from the touring? If you can, at

least at that point start developing some better habits and steel yourself

to continue them on tour. I know social pressure is overwhelming sometimes,

but I also know there are a few musicians out there who don't succumb to the

wiles of the road. With your eye problems, it may be a question of

straighten up or get too sick to survive. If you want to see how bad it can

get (yes, I'm trying to scare you a bit!) look at the photos files on the

group home page.

Good luck,

Terry

>

> Reply-To: graves_support

> Date: Fri, 11 Jul 2003 05:31:55 -0000

> To: graves_support

> Subject: Re: Shot in the dark

>

> Donna, we're in the same boat in a lot of ways. I think I do a lot

> more damage to myself than in your case. I smoke almost a 1/2

> pack a day at least and drink every night. Last night I was out

> until last call, than had more. It's a social thing though. It's my

> " lifestyle " . I kind of have this image to keep up a bit, and

> sometimes it catches up with me. I'm starting to get worried or

> perhaps just burn out on the same routine of partying, you know?

> I definately have some eye issues. I've been a smoker for 12

> years.I wish I could stop too.

> I don't want to get too dramatic here...

> -

>

>>> Hey, I figured I'd ask if there's anyone else in this group with

> a

>>> similar lifestyle to mine so that we may be able to chat and

>>> discuss our choices, etc...

>>> I'm 31 years old. I smoke, drink, take drugs every so often

> and

>>> am Hyperthyroid. I've been on Proply. I take 50MG twice a day,

>>> usually with coffee in the morning and alchohol at night.

>>> I was really sick when I was finally diagnosed with 2 very

> scary

>>> visits to the emergency room about 5 years ago.

>>> I'm a musician so I tour a lot and hang out late and have fun. I

>>> also feel pretty crappy most of the time.

>>> Anyway, more later if there's others out there who share my

> late

>>> nights.

>

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July 11, 2003

Dear ,

The other thing about the drinking and smoking lifestyle - is that it tends

to change with age anyway, but it's hard to see that if you are

concentrating so hard (as I was) on resisting Grave's induced change,

because I saw it as a way of giving in and letting the disease define me.

In the end though, it became more about surviving as my hyperthyoidism went

off the scale and I really didn't think I would get better.

Getting ill with Graves' in your early thirties is tricky timing - or it was

for me - because I still (at 37) cling fondly to the memory of all my " bad "

social habits, partly because I associate them with being well! But perhaps

I should associate them with being in my twenties and early thirties!

I'm the only one I know in real life who has Graves' and I was one of the

first ones out of the pub and away from the culture of " I'll sleep when I'm

dead " (as Donna puts it) and I found it very hard to do. But now I look

around me at the people I know and they have all toned it down as they head

out past 35 and on to 40. Life is far more pedestrian than it used to be

for me, but it is for many of the people I know who never had Graves' . I

don't think life's as fun and wild as it was - but it's not as awful as it

was when I was ill either. I never felt better than when I was drinking

and smoking heavily (and I agree with Donna about liking to survive on

coffee and cigarettes... that's how I used to live)! But I never felt worse

than when I was drinking and smoking with Graves' and don't fully get why I

let peer pressure get me to drink when I physically felt it harming me and

didn't want to (before I was diagnosed and trying to " cheer up " !).

I'm quite curious to know what your observations are of the people around

you on the touring circuit. What does 36, 38, 40, 45 look like amongst the

people you work with?

DAWN ROSE

Reply-To: graves_support

To: graves_support

Subject: Re: Re: Shot in the dark

Date: Fri, 11 Jul 2003 07:42:16 -0700