Re: ABB & behavior - smart kid

[Guest guest]

Hi Marty,

It may be that the school needs to alter his program to keep him

interested, but...

Also consider the possibility of environmental problems at the

school, especially since he'll be more physically sensitive now that

the g & c are clearing out and he's less drugged, in a sense. What

about carpetting (gases), air-conditioning (clean filters?), cleaning

supplies, pesticides, playdoh, glue, fluorescent lighting, and so

on. I previously posted a link to the US DOE on multiple chemical

sensitivity and can try to dredge that up again for you. FYI, the

USDOE sent it to all special ed districts - where it seems to have

languished unread.

> There's a behavior problem with our son which has been going on a

while and

> seems to be getting worse....

>

> He's been having behavior problems at school that just get worse.

My wife

> has noticed the same as I that his behavior at school seems bad

when he's

> just fine at home. The teacher herself suggested to us that maybe

he's

> getting bored. And she's always saying that he's a very bright kid.

>

> Soooo, what are we to do? .....

[Guest guest]

Marty,

First, let me say that when you were wondering if your son's behavior

problems were a cry of: Let me outta here, I belong somewhere else;

or

I am having so many problems that I need to stay here. I would pick

the former. Heres why:

Now take this however you want to, yet not in a bad way please

because

it is not being said in any kind of judgemental way, but maybe your

son shouldn't be in school at all. Maybe the behavior problems that

occur there but not at home are because he is ONLY 4 amd misses his

parents. I am a homeschooling mom (therein lies my bias) of 3

(

NT, BEN PDD-NOS, Autumn 1.5 NT). My NT son went to preschool at 5.5

for a brief time (he was born in the fall so started kindegarten

close

to being 6). hated preschool. We both cried when I dropped him

off. We missed each other. This was a time when I had to return to

work (thank God it was only 4 months) and it was awful. When

was 5yrs 10 months he started kindegarten and had a wonderful time

and

*was ready* to be away from me. He was pulled out of 1st grade to

homeschool because 1st grade was a nightmare (long story). Anyway,

what this all boils down to is just because a kid has an autistic

spectrum disorder (especially if they're on the mild end , as you

described, which is like my son Ben)it doesn't mean they *have to*

languish in school all day, no matter how specialized the school is.

Kids STILL need their parents and families, NT or Not. I think more

kids would have less problems (and now I am specifically speaking

about NT kids) if they spent more time with their families who love

them and less time with teachers and a boatload of same-age kids.

Kids are being shipped off to daycare and preschool at younger and

younger ages. This mass institutionalization of children is really

going to come back to bite us all in the A** someday. Trust me. There

are reams of articles and books that discuss how kids (but especially

boys) are less ready to leave their parents at an early age, so I am

not making this stuff up. A great book is The Hurried Child by

Dr. Elkind.

So, never never underestimate the fact that your son may need you

more than the school. BTW, my son Ben was initially evaluated thru

Early Intervention Program of our county school system and was

eligible for the Dev Delay Preschool and D.D. kindegarten. We passed

on them because we feel we can still get him the therapy he needs

without him having to be away from us all day/everyday. We know Ben

and know that that would cause more harm to him than any of the

supposed good that the kindegarten can provide. Anyway, this is just

my opinion, take or leave it.

In peace,

[Guest guest]

Hi ,

I'm a homeschooling mom too, and my prejudice runs for homeschooling. There

have been enough studies done showing that homeschooled kids are not less

social than regularly schooled kids. And I feel that our kids need the

extra parenting. Saying that, I will add that each of us must work this out

for ourselves, as we are the only ones who know what's best for our

individual kids. And I have no doubt that you , and most everyone on

this list give 100% to your kids, so sending your kids to school would not

take from the parenting your child needs, but keeping them home wouldn't

hurt either.

I am posting this just so that those who question sending their kids to

school should not be fearful that it would be harmful to homeschool them.

Socializing starts at home. Children who are the only kids at home should

certainly be given opportunity to join in with other kids, and effort to

expose them to social situations is a must, whether these kids are NT or

ASD. And certainly homeschooling ASD kids is challenging, but if a parent

feels this is something they can take on, go for it. A parent's advantage

is that they understand and know their own child, even though they may not

have the training that a teacher does. Another thing to consider is the

program and teacher that your child may have. I have known a couple of

excellent special ed teachers, as well as one who was horrid and several

who were mediocre.

If you are considering homeschooling, learn all you can about it, about the

laws of your state regarding homeschooling, about the programs available to

you as homeschoolers. You can homeschool and still use public school

programs, if this is a concern.

Whether you homeschool or not, we all must be knowledgeable about our

choices and our rights.

Lolita

>, hi,

>I just had to give my 2 cents on this. I feel school is the right and

>appropriate choice for our kids because a main thing with asd kids is a

>lack of social skills, and being home is not going to address these

>issues. The earlier our children are taught and exposed, the better. I

>miss LJ all day and can't wait for him to be home, but I know I am doing

>the right thing sending him to school. My son is an only child at home

>here and I think it would be wrong not to have social activity (without

>mommy).

> on Long Island New York

[Guest guest]

At 09:22 PM 6/6/01 -0400, you wrote:

>I just had to give my 2 cents on this. I feel school is the right and

>appropriate choice for our kids because a main thing with asd kids is a

>lack of social skills, and being home is not going to address these

>issues. The earlier our children are taught and exposed, the better. I

I'd like to chime in too. Oddly enough in our situation our 4 1/2 yr old is

getting his socialization mainly in our neighborhood, but only after school

when the other kids are around.

His school is a 1:1 ABA program that we're privileged to live near and that

he was accepted into. But I don't think he gets much socialization there,

at least not with other kids. We've observed the teaching methods and they

are intense, teacher & student in a work cubicle. There is a little

socialization but not alot.

At home, we live in a small neighborhood with lots of kids. And two new

families just moved in with four kids between them. I watched my son and 6

y/o NT daughter last evening playing with three other neighborhood kids for

1 1/2 hours. One of the three is 6 and new to the neighborhood, the other

two are 5 and 13 and he knows them.

So, my son was very cranky and not too social. But I left him out there,

the other kids ignored his crankiness and eventually he got over it. Sounds

pretty normal in that respect. Later when the new kid left I noticed my son

got much more comfortable. So I think it's just the stress of new neighbors.

One of the new kids is a four year old girl, I met her and her older sister

who's 9, my oldest is 10 later than night. So now there is someone my

oldest's age and gender, and someone my son's age! Funny thing is we live

in a rural area and were house shopping for two+ years wanting a house with

land and a view... and privacy.

We ended up with a house w/ no land in a neighborhood. The opposite of what

we'd been looking for. But as it turns out, the ideal environment for our

children who after all are the important ones at this age. I keep telling

my wife that when the kids are older and leaving the house we can get that

house on the mountain with 12 acres.

Marty

[Guest guest]

Lolita Cook <lita@b...> wrote:

>I'm a homeschooling mom too, and my prejudice runs for

homeschooling. There

> have been enough studies done showing that homeschooled kids are

not

less

> social than regularly schooled kids. And I feel that our kids need

the

> extra parenting. Saying that, I will add that each of us must work

this out

> for ourselves, as we are the only ones who know what's best for our

> individual kids.

Lolita,

I loved your whole post, but I couldn't agree more with your above

post.

To everyone else conflicted about school,

One thing I find most interesting is that almost all people assume

that school-style socialization is what all kids need. However, if

one EVER sat down to think about it, there is nothing in real life

that is akin to that kind of socialization other than JAIL.

Now before anyone jumps on me, let me explain. In school (K-12

because no one HAS to go to college) you HAVE to go, according to the

law, by age 5,6, or7, depending on the state. You have no choice who

your teacher is going to be (even in private schools this is mostly

true), no choice what you are going to study or do all day. You have

no choice what kids will be in your class. You can't even talk to

people whenever you want or go to the bathroom without permission.

You

are told when and how long to eat and play outside and socialize. If

you break the rules you get record for being a behavior problem. Jail

is similar, the law mandates you go there if you have broken it. You

have no choice what cell you'll be in, can't really choose your cell

mate, and told what to do and eat all day etc... At least when you

are in school you get to leave!YIPEE.

Now, after compulsory school when is the world ever like that? People

get to pick their jobs, their friends, when they eat, and go to

sleep,

what they'll do. If you have a crappy boss that harasses you, you

can

leave your job or go higher up and have him reprimanded. Try that

with a crappy teacher who has tenure!! If a co-worker was bullying

you in someway you could get him fired or ask for a transfer (for him

or you LOL). You can't get rid of the bully in you class. I was on

the verge of a nervouos breakdown at 12, when in middle school I was

bullied by girls and sexually harassed by boys. My parents put me in

a private school that my grandparents paid for, because there was no

other public school I could attend. I am on my homeschooling support

group's phone list. At the end of the school year is when I get the

brunt of calls, and you know what they tell me? They aren't

interested in homeschooling for academic reason, but for social

reasons. Their kids are dying emotionally and they want to stop it.

I know many of you are still going to decide on school for your kids

and that's fine. Please, just realize you have options. If a child

is

*truly* happy at school, then that is where they should be. If the

are not happy, the child's parents MUST do something to alleviate

their child's misery.

Let me just wrap up this ridiculously long post with my son's

situation.

Ben will be 5 on 8-1-01. If I were the typical American parent

(which

does not homeschool or even consider it as an option) Ben would be

going to kindegarten this year. HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! Ben won't let me

leave him, nor can he leave me. This kid o'mine sucks at

transitioning! Part of his PDD-NOS is that seperation

anxiety/transitioning problem. Even when I am with him he is

horrible

at it! If it's my turn to volunteer at the nursery in church, I

bring

him with me (Ben never goes to sunday school) and he cries outside

the

door to go home for 45 minutes til I can coax him in the room, then

when it's time to leave I can't get him out of the room. We just

went

to a party a week ago to people's home that we (he) knows well. He

screamed and carried on (in front of everyone) about wanting to

leave...clinging very tightly to me. He's like a 2 year old. (Let me

just say we are NOT gf/cf yet. We are in the beginning stages of all

this. We are doing the yeast diet now and will move to cf then gf,

so

alot of this stuff could very well change for Ben.)

Now the EIP thru our county eval'd Ben and he was eligible for

DDPreschool. They were even nice enough to say he could come 2

mornings a week (because they know how committed I am to

homeschooling.) But when my dh and I spoke about it, we realized Ben

would so flip out that no matter what they thought they were going to

try to " teach " Ben, he would be catatonic from being away from us.

Yeah, I know kids need to learn to seperate from their parents. Well

NT kids do, and even for them it needs to be when THEY are ready, not

when I am ready. Plus, I am not dealing with an NT kid, so as far as

I

am concerned, Ben really needs to show me when HE is ready.

Now, I may be considered lucky by some, as Ben is at the mild end

of the spectrum and is social, he plays with his brother (11) and

sister (1.5). When we go to homeschool parkday where all the

homeschoolers in my group go on tuesdays and PLAY ALL DAY!!(real

socialization)Ben plays with his friends. Of course, he can still

have a difficult time moving from home to the park.:-) Ben also has

friends in the neighborhood and friends we cultivated from our old

neighborhood which we see often. All of these friends of mine and

Ben's know of Ben's quirkines and allow him to be himself without

judgement. There are so many ways to get a kid socialized in a

meaningful way that school cannot. Play days with friends and private

therapy can often times be better than a special school.

One last thing, I have a friend with a son who has Kanner's Autism.

He is in a speical ABA school. She says he really enjoys it, and

that

it has helped him immensely. I also have another friend whose son's

ABA takes place at home. However, my ABA school friend told me, when

dh and I considered the DDPreschool, that with Ben as high

functioning

as he is and given his passivity and anxiety, that he may pick up bad

behaviors from the kids in his class , or worse get picked on, and

that maybe I shouldn't put

him in school, but get private Speech therapy (which I can get thru

the school), and OT therapy. She said she

has seen bad things happen to ASD kids in school alot. I took her

advice and am glad I did. I

believe Ben will get better. I just have to trust my instincts. And

my instincts say that my Ben needs to be with his family. For others

the choice may be school.

Oh, and just so ya'll know, of my 3 closests friends, only 1

homeschools her kids. So I am not an intolerant creep. Just wanted

to

get the message out that sometimes school is not the answer.

[Guest guest]

Great Post.

Both my husband and I were in public school. Hated it. We were on

the bottom end of the totem pole - so got picked on for just about

everything under the sun.

If you take a look at what is going on in *some* public school

systems, well, I am not sure I want those kids socializing mine, if

you get my meaning.

I agree with the idea that you do what is best for your kids, but

please, people, don't assume that homeschooled kids are not getting

socialized. I have never seen a more well adjusted and educated

bunch in my life. The association out here in Kansas City is HUGE.

>

> >I'm a homeschooling mom too, and my prejudice runs for

> homeschooling. There

> > have been enough studies done showing that homeschooled kids are

> not

> less

> > social than regularly schooled kids. And I feel that our kids

need

> the

> > extra parenting. Saying that, I will add that each of us must

work

> this out

> > for ourselves, as we are the only ones who know what's best for

our

> > individual kids.

>

> Lolita,

>

> I loved your whole post, but I couldn't agree more with your above

> post.

>

> To everyone else conflicted about school,

>

> One thing I find most interesting is that almost all people assume

> that school-style socialization is what all kids need. However, if

> one EVER sat down to think about it, there is nothing in real life

> that is akin to that kind of socialization other than JAIL.

>

> Now before anyone jumps on me, let me explain. In school (K-12

> because no one HAS to go to college) you HAVE to go, according to

the

> law, by age 5,6, or7, depending on the state. You have no choice

who

> your teacher is going to be (even in private schools this is mostly

> true), no choice what you are going to study or do all day. You

have

> no choice what kids will be in your class. You can't even talk to

> people whenever you want or go to the bathroom without permission.

> You

> are told when and how long to eat and play outside and socialize.

If

> you break the rules you get record for being a behavior problem.

Jail

> is similar, the law mandates you go there if you have broken it.

You

> have no choice what cell you'll be in, can't really choose your

cell

> mate, and told what to do and eat all day etc... At least when you

> are in school you get to leave!YIPEE.

>

> Now, after compulsory school when is the world ever like that?

People

> get to pick their jobs, their friends, when they eat, and go to

> sleep,

> what they'll do. If you have a crappy boss that harasses you, you

> can

> leave your job or go higher up and have him reprimanded. Try that

> with a crappy teacher who has tenure!! If a co-worker was bullying

> you in someway you could get him fired or ask for a transfer (for

him

> or you LOL). You can't get rid of the bully in you class. I was

on

> the verge of a nervouos breakdown at 12, when in middle school I

was

> bullied by girls and sexually harassed by boys. My parents put me

in

> a private school that my grandparents paid for, because there was

no

> other public school I could attend. I am on my homeschooling

support

> group's phone list. At the end of the school year is when I get

the

> brunt of calls, and you know what they tell me? They aren't

> interested in homeschooling for academic reason, but for social

> reasons. Their kids are dying emotionally and they want to stop it.

> I know many of you are still going to decide on school for your

kids

> and that's fine. Please, just realize you have options. If a child

> is

> *truly* happy at school, then that is where they should be. If the

> are not happy, the child's parents MUST do something to alleviate

> their child's misery.

>

>

> Let me just wrap up this ridiculously long post with my son's

> situation.

>

> Ben will be 5 on 8-1-01. If I were the typical American parent

> (which

> does not homeschool or even consider it as an option) Ben would be

> going to kindegarten this year. HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! Ben won't let

me

> leave him, nor can he leave me. This kid o'mine sucks at

> transitioning! Part of his PDD-NOS is that seperation

> anxiety/transitioning problem. Even when I am with him he is

> horrible

> at it! If it's my turn to volunteer at the nursery in church, I

> bring

> him with me (Ben never goes to sunday school) and he cries outside

> the

> door to go home for 45 minutes til I can coax him in the room, then

> when it's time to leave I can't get him out of the room. We just

> went

> to a party a week ago to people's home that we (he) knows well. He

> screamed and carried on (in front of everyone) about wanting to

> leave...clinging very tightly to me. He's like a 2 year old. (Let

me

> just say we are NOT gf/cf yet. We are in the beginning stages of

all

> this. We are doing the yeast diet now and will move to cf then gf,

> so

> alot of this stuff could very well change for Ben.)

>

> Now the EIP thru our county eval'd Ben and he was eligible for

> DDPreschool. They were even nice enough to say he could come 2

> mornings a week (because they know how committed I am to

> homeschooling.) But when my dh and I spoke about it, we realized

Ben

> would so flip out that no matter what they thought they were going

to

> try to " teach " Ben, he would be catatonic from being away from us.

> Yeah, I know kids need to learn to seperate from their parents.

Well

> NT kids do, and even for them it needs to be when THEY are ready,

not

> when I am ready. Plus, I am not dealing with an NT kid, so as far as

> I

> am concerned, Ben really needs to show me when HE is ready.

>

> Now, I may be considered lucky by some, as Ben is at the mild end

> of the spectrum and is social, he plays with his brother (11) and

> sister (1.5). When we go to homeschool parkday where all the

> homeschoolers in my group go on tuesdays and PLAY ALL DAY!!(real

> socialization)Ben plays with his friends. Of course, he can still

> have a difficult time moving from home to the park.:-) Ben also

has

> friends in the neighborhood and friends we cultivated from our old

> neighborhood which we see often. All of these friends of mine and

> Ben's know of Ben's quirkines and allow him to be himself without

> judgement. There are so many ways to get a kid socialized in a

> meaningful way that school cannot. Play days with friends and

private

> therapy can often times be better than a special school.

>

> One last thing, I have a friend with a son who has Kanner's

Autism.

> He is in a speical ABA school. She says he really enjoys it, and

> that

> it has helped him immensely. I also have another friend whose

son's

> ABA takes place at home. However, my ABA school friend told me,

when

> dh and I considered the DDPreschool, that with Ben as high

> functioning

> as he is and given his passivity and anxiety, that he may pick up

bad

> behaviors from the kids in his class , or worse get picked on, and

> that maybe I shouldn't put

> him in school, but get private Speech therapy (which I can get thru

> the school), and OT therapy. She said she

> has seen bad things happen to ASD kids in school alot. I took her

> advice and am glad I did. I

> believe Ben will get better. I just have to trust my instincts.

And

> my instincts say that my Ben needs to be with his family. For

others

> the choice may be school.

>

> Oh, and just so ya'll know, of my 3 closests friends, only 1

> homeschools her kids. So I am not an intolerant creep. Just wanted

> to

> get the message out that sometimes school is not the answer.

>

>