OT: Epsom bath-- what did we do wrong update

[Guest guest]

UGH! what a horrible night! He fought and fought us until 10:30

(screaming/kicking/ect, usual bedtime is between 8 and 8:30). Finally fell

asleep and then started crying (sobbing) in his sleep around 11:30. Picked

him up and brought to bed with us and he settled down, but then woke up again

at 3, screaming. I took him to the living room and put in Toy Story and laid

down with him.. He laid there, holding my arm on him, and would cry if I

needed to move or get up (and with our hard tile floors, I had to move a lot

to remain comfortable.. He was on a body length boppy, but poor me had no

padding.). Is this a normal type reaction? I'm afraid to try the bath

again.. He wasn't hyperactive or anything, but kept crying out.. it was the

saddest thing..

Thanks in advance.

Married to Dan

Mom to:

Dana (3/4/98)

36 week preemie, now a spirited 3 y/o

~~~~~and~~~~~~

(3/26/99)

33 week preemie, now a 2 y.o. growing boy!

Hearing impaired/mild autism

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

<A

HREF= " http://www.butcherfamily.freeservers.com " >http://www.butcherfamily.freeser\

vers.com</A>

[Guest guest]

Have you taken him to a gastroenterologist to be tested for reflux? Waking

up at night especially with crying and screaming is one of the symptoms.

In a message dated 5/29/2001 9:14:42 AM Eastern Daylight Time,

RT2@... writes:

<< UGH! what a horrible night! He fought and fought us until 10:30

(screaming/kicking/ect, usual bedtime is between 8 and 8:30). Finally fell

asleep and then started crying (sobbing) in his sleep around 11:30. Picked

him up and brought to bed with us and he settled down, but then woke up

again

at 3, screaming. I took him to the living room and put in Toy Story and

laid

down with him.. He laid there, holding my arm on him, and would cry if I

needed to move or get up (and with our hard tile floors, I had to move a lot

to remain comfortable.. He was on a body length boppy, but poor me had no

padding.). Is this a normal type reaction? I'm afraid to try the bath

again.. He wasn't hyperactive or anything, but kept crying out.. it was the

saddest thing..

Thanks in advance.

Married to Dan

Mom to:

Dana (3/4/98)

36 week preemie, now a spirited 3 y/o >>

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 05/29/2001 9:23:57 AM Eastern Daylight Time,

Lake260@... writes:

> Have you taken him to a gastroenterologist to be tested for reflux? Waking

> up at night especially with crying and screaming is one of the symptoms.

>

>

>

>

He was diagnosed with reflux as an infant, however he had outgrown it some

time ago. And he doesn't normally do this.. He wakes up at night almost

every night, but not the screaming/crying bit. He just gets up and thinks

it's time to eat or play or whatever at 2-3AM.. Last night was different with

the crying/screaming/clinging stuff.. It was so sad to hear, made my heart

break for him. That's why I thought it might have been related to the epsom

salt bath since last night was the first one he'd ever had. He enjoyed the

bath well enough, but fought us at bedtime..

Thinking back, He did have an infrigement last night at a birthday party.. He

got ahold of one Kix cereal piece and downed it before I could stop him.. One

piece couldn't possibly have caused all this, could it?

Married to Dan

Mom to:

Dana (3/4/98)

36 week preemie, now a spirited 3 y/o

~~~~~and~~~~~~

(3/26/99)

33 week preemie, now a 2 y.o. growing boy!

Hearing impaired/mild autism

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

<A

HREF= " http://www.butcherfamily.freeservers.com " >http://www.butcherfamily.freeser\

vers.com</A>

[Guest guest]

,

I have heard of this sort of reaction before, and like diet infractions

that can really scare us by their intensity, your son's reaction is not a

" casual " or " typical " response to a treatment that has been used

uneventfully by people soaking sore muscles and otherwise relaxing for

centuries. So this should tell you that something significant is happening

in your son's system. This should not at all tell you that sulfate

supplementation is " wrong " for him, and I'll tell you why I have that opinion.

Tests of sulfation in autism have shown that insufficient sulfate appears

to be an issue in about 92% of cases. (See RH Waring's work.) My

impressions are that some children are so deficient in sulfate that a large

initial dose is just overwhelming. They may have processes dialed up that

have been dialed down for their entire memory, and this much change that

fast is just too much to handle.

But this is not " psychological " . There is a physiological reason for

this. When a signal is lacking in the body, the cells that are supposed to

pick up that signal do something extraordinary to make the best out of a

bad situation. They dial up the receptors, to increase the odds of a

receptor running into the rare appropriately prepared ligand. So these

receptors are now super-sensitive. It is a bit like if you couldn't hear

well, that your body would adjust by popping out a hundred ears all over

your body so that you could amplify the effect of any noise in your

environment.

There are no sulfate receptors, per se, but there are receptors that

require a sulfated form of the chemical they are designed to " pick up " , and

it is them that might be " dialed up " . It looks like most receptors work by

an association with sulfated proteoglycans on the cell surface, so rather

than affecting only one system, this may affect ALL SORTS of chemical

systems all at once. So this, for your son, may have been like the shock

you get if you have been sitting in silence thinking you were alone and

somebody unexpectedly makes a loud noise or touches you...very unnerving

because you weren't expecting it, and you haven't had time to adjust. But

the same level of noise at a large party wouldn't make you think twice,

because you have had time to adjust to the level of noise and are expecting

it. But, again, if his receptors are dialed up, the signal really is TOO

loud, and it takes time for those " extra ears " to disappear as the signal

(or noise) attains a more normal level.

The best example of this I can think of is the reports on what secretin

does in the lab test when it is used on those with autism. Because,

theoretically, these children may not have had enough secretin signal in

their systems, then when the IV secretin was used, the amount of stuff the

pancreas put out was way too abundant: far above normal...the receptors for

secretin were apparently " dialed up " (more abundant than usual), and that

made the physiological response to secretin much higher than it would be in

a " control " population.

I don't know how much epsom salts you used, but it might be wiser to give

his body a chance to downregulate the receptors which are sensitive to

sulfate issues. Start with about an eighth of the quantity you used

before, and do it in the morning. Only slowly each day add more if you are

seeing he is tolerating it. But most of all, notice how he is doing for

the next few days, for if he had been really low, you might see some

benefits as the sulfate gets incorporated more " evenly " into systems in his

body.

I hope this helps.

(who studies what sulfate does through the Brain Health Center at UTD)

At 5/29/2001 -040009:13 AM, you wrote:

>UGH! what a horrible night! He fought and fought us until 10:30

>(screaming/kicking/ect, usual bedtime is between 8 and 8:30). Finally fell

>asleep and then started crying (sobbing) in his sleep around 11:30. Picked

>him up and brought to bed with us and he settled down, but then woke up again

>at 3, screaming. I took him to the living room and put in Toy Story and laid

>down with him.. He laid there, holding my arm on him, and would cry if I

>needed to move or get up (and with our hard tile floors, I had to move a lot

>to remain comfortable.. He was on a body length boppy, but poor me had no

>padding.). Is this a normal type reaction? I'm afraid to try the bath

>again.. He wasn't hyperactive or anything, but kept crying out.. it was the

>saddest thing..

>

>Thanks in advance.

>

>

>Married to Dan

>Mom to:

>Dana (3/4/98)

>36 week preemie, now a spirited 3 y/o

>~~~~~and~~~~~~

> (3/26/99)

>33 week preemie, now a 2 y.o. growing boy!

>Hearing impaired/mild autism

>~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

><A

>HREF= " http://www.butcherfamily.freeservers.com " >http://www.butcherfamily.fr

>eeservers.com</A>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>