[SPAM] Re: My son finally can stick out his tongue!!!!!

[Guest guest]

,

That is a great post....

Mark has both dysarthria and apraxia and I never have quite gotten the

difference of which was which! Thank you for that.....

So.... lets say we get rid of all of the dysarthria and are just left with the

dyspraxia/apraxia..... what I don't get is that where previously Mark always

spoke poorly making some sounds correct which one would expect of a speech

delay.

Now we have changed..... we either have good speech days where he speaks in a

manner that is completely NT or bad speech days where articulation is 'off' the

entire day. This will usually be one or the other for a few days on or a few

days off. Every once in a while I think that I have the 'ah haaaa' sollution

that is environmental only to be proven wrong.

Have you ever heard of this before? We get good speech and bad speech in

'chunks', say 4 days of good speech followed by 3-5 days of bad speech. It's

exhausting for I tend to run around trying to figure out how to get the good

speech back.... (I sometimes fear that it won't come back.)

It is sooooo odd and I would just like to get this over with. We have worked so

hard and we are so close to being completely done with speech but we get these

darn regressions!!!!! It is driving me batty. (Can you tell that we haven't

come out of our speech regression that has persisted for well over a week now?)

Does this happen with Tanner? Mark is so darn inconsistent!

UGH!

Janice

Mother of Mark, 13

[sPAM][ ] Re: My son finally can stick out his

tongue!!!!!

It's great that there have been wonderful suggestions on things you

can do at home to help with tongue control -but you need to find out

what the cause is from (motor planning vs weakness or sensory or more

than one of the above) to know which therapy/therapies would be most

effective to help. For the most part the peanut butter on the lips

is just a way to test for possible oral apraxia -not necessarily a

therapy depending -but it could be. Yes the mirror can be so

important for those with motor planning issues. Professional speech

therapy -and probably with oral motor therapy as well - will probably

show the quickest improvements and they'll give you " homework " .

Below are some archives on the differences between oral apraxia and

dysarthria. There's more on this in The Late Talker as my son Tanner

had apraxia, some dysarthria, and sensory issues that we had to deal

with in working with oral motor therapy/speech therapy (outside of

what we did with OT etc)

~~start of archives

Are they sure it's oral apraxia and not dysarthria? It could also

be a combination of the two (which is what my son Tanner had)

Apraxia is the motor planning impairment of doing things on

command. In other words -your son may not have any trouble lifting

his tongue up or moving it side to side when not thinking about it,

but when he tries to do it on command -he can't...or it goes the

wrong way. Weakness issues would mean he just can't do it ever. My

son could not ever lift his tongue up to touch his top lip when

three (weakness) but in addition, couldn't get his tongue to go

which way he wanted it to go side to side or down. If you put

peanut butter on the right side -his tongue would typically go to

the left. Actually most times he just used his fingers to push it

into his mouth.

If there are other " soft signs "

http://www.cherab.org/information/speechlanguage/parentfriendlysoftsig

ns.html

like weakness/hypotonia or sensory integration dysfunction

for example, it's probably not just a simple delay in speech or a

phonological disorder. Also those children with just phonological

disorders and/or those with dysarthria/weakness typically

have 'consistent errors. Apraxia = inconsistent errors. Then

again -apraxia can co exist with any of the above, or just about

anything else. This is why you need to know what symptoms if any

are from apraxia -and what are from something else. So you can get

Kellen appropriate therapy/therapies!

More from cuts from archives below on this:

" It is confusing, this is why it's so important to make sure your

child is properly diagnosed. Dysarthria and apraxia can stand

alone, they can also co exist together -it's not unusual.

" Some speech disorders can overlap, or be misdiagnosed. For

example, " Verbal apraxia, a disorder of central nervous system (CNS)

processing, and dysarthria, a disorder of output, are commonly

confused " , says Dr. , chief of child development at the

Chicago College of Medicine. " Experts are able to differentiate

between these two disorders by listening carefully to a child's

speech and by identifying certain physical clues " , says Dr. ,

but adds, " These disorders are poorly understood by physicians and

by a lot of speech therapists as well. " It is possible for

phonological disorders, apraxia and dysarthria to all occur together

in the same child. Speech Language Impairments, which is connected

to language based learning difficulties may also be present. And the

severity of each may vary. "

http://www.cherab.org/information/latetalkerhandout.html

My son Tanner had to work on these two conditions (and more) and he

is talking and a straight A student in first grade now. He plays

ball, rides a bike, roller blades -maybe not all as graceful as

other boys -but he pushes himself to keep up with all his friends.

The Late Talker book has many exercises that you can do at home

(many pulled from what worked for Tanner who was diagnosed with oral

and verbal apraxia, dysarthria, and sensory integration dysfunction -

and mild hypotonia too)

http://www.cherab.org/information/familiesrelate/letter.html

How did I tell the difference between what was due to apraxia and

what was due to dysarthria or hypotonia? Here's my parent

friendly explanation. Apraxia is trying to pick up a fork to pick

up a cooked noodle... while looking in a mirror. Weakness is like

trying to pick up the fork 'with' a cooked noodle. Having

both -well it's, both.

If Tanner never did it, and made consistent errors when he tried to

do it -that was from weakness. Dysarthria and hypotonia made

sense. " He needs to work on this " If he could do it once in a while,

mainly not on command, and was inconsistent in how he did it -that

was the motor planning. Apraxia doesn't make sense " I don't get it

why can't he do this when he can do that? " or " He just did it why

can't he do it again? " Actually if you start your sentence off when

describing your child with " it doesn't make sense " ...big warning

sign of apraxia!

Again you'll know what I mean if you know what I mean! If even the

experts are not 100% sure, it doesn't hurt to incorporate both motor

planning and strengthening therapies to see which helps the most, or

if both are needed. (again not unusual)

Here are just a few links about dysarthria. Keep in mind a child

can have more than one diagnosis.

http://www.d.umn.edu/~ameredit/Neurogenic%20speech%20disorders/Management%20of%2\

\

0Children%20with%20Dysarthrianotes.htm

http://www.stronghealth.com/services/childrens/conditions/Dysarthria.cfm

http://www.speech-express.com/diagnosis-destinations/dysarthria/dysarthria.html

http://neuro-www.mgh.harvard.edu/forum_2/SpeechDisordersF/Childhooddysarthria.ht\

\

ml

http://www.asha.org/about/publications/leader-online/reviews/dysarthia.htm

http://www.csuchico.edu/~pmccaff/syllabi/SPPA342/342unit14.html

Oral apraxia

verbal apraxia

http://www.cherab.org/information/speechlanguage/verbalapraxia.html

oral apraxia

http://www.cherab.org/information/speechlanguage/oralapraxia.html

Some speech disorders can overlap, or be misdiagnosed. For

example, " Verbal apraxia, a disorder of central nervous system (CNS)

processing, and dysarthria, a disorder of output, are commonly

confused " , says Dr. , chief of child development at the

Chicago College of Medicine. " Experts are able to differentiate

between these two disorders by listening carefully to a child's

speech and by identifying certain physical clues " , says Dr. ,

but adds, " These disorders are poorly understood by physicians and

by a lot of speech therapists as well. " It is possible for

phonological disorders, apraxia and dysarthria to all occur together

in the same child. Speech Language Impairments, which is connected

to language based learning difficulties may also be present. And the

severity of each may vary.

http://www.cherab.org/information/latetalkerhandout.html

Have you read The Late Talker -can't recall.

~~~~~~~~~~~end of archives

=====

[Guest guest]

On a weekend day can you reduce a fish oil pill to sort of have an

extra E effect? Or would that still require vitamin K? Or is it just

to scary to mess with the formula. I get that.

>

> Hey Janice!

>

> YES -It's not split up so even like 4 days on and 4 off...but Tanner

> still has an off day here and there and of course we all wonder why.

> On Tanner's off days he stutters. I've been wanting to increase the

> vitamin E since we are still low according to -so wanted to

> add vitamin K -but between Tanner's " FOUR " ProEFA and " TWO " ProEPA

> and " FOUR " alpha/gamma vitamin E capsules -Tanner's counted up that

> he has to take TEN capsules a DAY! And " that's too much! " " what am

> I supposed to take more and more and MORE? By the time I'm twenty I

> be taking ONE HUNDRED capsules a day?!! " (yes that's pretty much

how

> he says it every time I want to increase a bit!) That's what I told

> -and I'm sure you understand from Mark that working with an

> almost teen =in my case an 11 year old tweenie -he's got his own

mind

> and is very strong in what he does and doesn't want to do. Not like

> working with a young child for sure. Gone are the days I could just

> tweak this or that and Tanner wouldn't notice. Have you noticed

that

> with Mark?

>

> But as I just said in a recent message -sometimes the bad days could

> have nothing to do with a regression -but perhaps because in another

> way he is growing. There are so many changes -too many to even

think

> of all at once. Tanner's has developed into a " young man " (what he

> wants to be called) that likes to communicate and talk to just about

> everyone even though yes his speech isn't 100%. Most of the time

for

> the type of talking he does it's perfect- just certain words -longer

> more complex thoughts- he has trouble still. We talk about the

> planet, space, current events, things he is learning at school, how

> things are made, what happens if you do this or that. Just like

week

> we had a very long and deep conversation about death since Tanner

had

> a bad dream that me and Glenn both died and it upset him. I never

> knew how much he was thinking before and it's like now that he can

> talk more -we are all getting to know Tanner even better! Well on

> the good days -on the bad days Tanner doesn't talk non stop. He is

> very aware and even though he participates with all his friends -he

> laughs and plays -just doesn't talk much on the " bad " days.

>

> So about the bad days -perhaps it's because our boys are no longer

> boys- but young men and they are going through the start of puberty.

> Tanner just keeps sprouting up -I'm 5 foot 51/2 and Tanner at 11

> years old is my height now, wears a man's size 9 shoe, and doesn't

> look like he's going to stop shooting up anytime soon. In addition

> to physical growing -he's learning about so much more intellectual

> subjects than he ever did before in school. He's being encouraged

to

> think in a much more sophisticated way for his work in 5th grade. I

> can't even help Tanner with his math homework anymore as that was

> never my forte -if I had to divide fractions I'd have to use a

> calculator! Fortunately Tanner rarely needs help with homework and

> for the most part does things himself. (but math homework is Daddy

> or Dakota to the rescue if he needs any help!)

>

> Tanner's very aware and is willing to talk about what he remembers

> and the way things are for him now. Tanner's been on the phone

with

> quite a few parents to explain how he used to have trouble getting

> words out and how things are for him now.

>

> And speaking of talking...We should have our two boys talk. Who

> knows -perhaps the two of them can figure out the whys of the up and

> down days. If nothing else I'm sure it would just be great for the

> two of them to get to know someone around their own age who has the

> same type of condition. None of Tanner's friends have had any

speech

> issues since we've moved to Florida. There aren't many other kids

> like him around. Call me at 772 335 5135 after 4 or send me your

> number and I'll have Tanner call you!

>

> BTW -Tanner's " the " song to listen to is Soulja Boy - Crank That

> Soulja Boy. LOVES it!! I try to dance like they do in this video

> and he laughs and corrects me to show me the right way to do it

(he's

> learning Hip Hop at school now too)

>

>

> Also does Mark have Rock Band or Guitar Hero? We don't (goodness

> knows why as we have everything else! My neighbor Laurie says why

> should I get it when she has it and our boys play with it together)

> but my neighbor's boys have Rock Band and they take turns being the

> different parts and that too is very fun for Tanner and Dakota -all

> the kids. Actually from what I hear adults love it too.

>

> =====

>