Reactions to casein

[Guest guest]

I tried giving my son goat yogurt last thursday and last friday....

He had some horrible reactions and behaviors that I hadn't seen since

we eliminated cow's milk a year ago. He appeared to be

hallucinating....staring at curtain and laughing...staring at places

on the ceiling, and laughing, like he was looking at something that

wasn't there. He was screaming and crying all day long-so I took him

off of it on Saturday. I also have reduced him diet down to:

Chicken

butternut squash

homeade pear sauce

Chicken stock/broth for soup

I make squash muffins (chicken, squash, and some pear)

and he has been eating chicken soup

I have been doing this for a couple of days, and was going to

continue a couple of days longer, hoping to get a baseline diet where

he wasn't having any behavior problems/reactions... He seems to still

be having problems, though, and I am wondering, does anyone think

it's probably from the casein not leaving his body completely?

We started the diet on 3-24-07, with the intro diet for one day, and

then we added some banana.

His bowel movements are pretty much mush, like dark, pureed,

butternut squash. They are slightly formed, but most of the time

they're not. I give him laxatives daily.

He is on Dr. Neubrander's multivitamin for the b-12 protocol and he

is on , gingo biloba, melatonin, folinic acid, calcium, , b-6, milk

thistle, taurine, acidophilus 3 times a day, and S. boulardii twice a

day, along with coconut oil. I also have been giving no phenol

because he reacts to new foods with extreme hyperactivity (as if he

is on crack-literally)

He is also eating MASSIVE quantities of food.

I make the muffins with the ingredients listed above-which means/per

day he has been eating:

9 chicken tenders

4 cups of mashed butternut squash

4 pears

coconut oil added to the muffins

plus he has been eating chicken soup, and additional squash mashed up

on the side..

I have three questions:

Is it normal to eat that much food-for a 4-year-old, almost five,

that weighs like 41 pounds?

Do you think the problem behavior could be do to the casein?

What should I do about him BM problems?

Any advice is appreciated....Does it take days to see results of

" pulling " carrots and bananas from the diet?

I really don't want him to eat all this protein

thanks...

, mother to 4-year-old with autism and Numerous GI problems

[Guest guest]

>

>Hi

No doubt the moderators will get back to you to help but all I can say

is that when my daughter goes " to the dark side " it usually takes

betwen 3-5 days before she's back with us. She is tube fed and I can

see exactly which food causes it. This was before I started giving her

SCD foods, which she does not react to. How much yoghurt were you

giving and was it made the SCD way, for 24 hours? You are supposed to

start off with 1/8 teaspoon and watch for reactions. Was it compliant

and made as per instructions with the correct starter? As I said

someone will be able to help more, but the affects of D-lactic acid

acidosis last for 36-80 hours.

Hope this helps

Glynis Steele mam to Jasmine 7yrs

Kabuki Syndrome and tube fed.

[Guest guest]

I gave a little too much, the second day...It was made exactly

according to the pecanbread.com directions. It was all SCD compliant.

What is the protocol for increasing the goat yogurt.

1/8 or 1/10 of a tsp for how many days before you increase?

> >

>

> >Hi

>

> No doubt the moderators will get back to you to help but all I can

say

> is that when my daughter goes " to the dark side " it usually takes

> betwen 3-5 days before she's back with us. She is tube fed and I

can

> see exactly which food causes it. This was before I started giving

her

> SCD foods, which she does not react to. How much yoghurt were you

> giving and was it made the SCD way, for 24 hours? You are supposed

to

> start off with 1/8 teaspoon and watch for reactions. Was it

compliant

> and made as per instructions with the correct starter? As I said

> someone will be able to help more, but the affects of D-lactic acid

> acidosis last for 36-80 hours.

>

> Hope this helps

>

> Glynis Steele mam to Jasmine 7yrs

> Kabuki Syndrome and tube fed.

>

[Guest guest]

Please tell me more about dlactic acid acidosis.

Pam

************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com.

[Guest guest]

Please tell me more aout d lactic acid acidosis

Thanks

Pam

> >

>

> >Hi

>

> No doubt the moderators will get back to you to help but all I can

say

> is that when my daughter goes " to the dark side " it usually takes

> betwen 3-5 days before she's back with us. She is tube fed and I

can

> see exactly which food causes it. This was before I started giving

her

> SCD foods, which she does not react to. How much yoghurt were you

> giving and was it made the SCD way, for 24 hours? You are supposed

to

> start off with 1/8 teaspoon and watch for reactions. Was it

compliant

> and made as per instructions with the correct starter? As I said

> someone will be able to help more, but the affects of D-lactic acid

> acidosis last for 36-80 hours.

>

> Hope this helps

>

> Glynis Steele mam to Jasmine 7yrs

> Kabuki Syndrome and tube fed.

>

[Guest guest]

>

> Please tell me more about dlactic acid acidosis.

> Pam

>

> D-lactic acic acidosis is mentioned in BTVC on pages 48 and 55 and

causes neurological symptoms such as aggressiveness, disorientation,

blurred vision, blunted judgement, abusive behaviour, slurred speech,

staggering gait, rolling of the eye-balls,confusion and delirium. I

think these symptoms are reported in adults so who knows with

children. and Blass reported it in a small study of autistic

children in The Journal of Development Disorders, 1985. The attacks

last between 36-80 hours, and can occur with short-bowel syndrome/or

surgery. It is caused when undigested carbs are fermented by

bacteria. I have requested that my daughter has a lactulose breath

test and am waiting for this to be set up. This is to see whether she

has small bowel bacterial overgrowth. She is fed via NG tube and the

feed, when increased causes behaviour changes. I have blamed carbs for

this for a couple of years, as oral carbs cause the same thing. I

stumbled my way to this site and Pecanbread.com and the foods I now

give her do not cause this change.

>

Regards

Glynis mam to Jasmine 7yrs

Diagnosed with Kabuki Syndrome

and NG tube fed.

> ************************************** See what's free at

http://www.aol.com.

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Thanks for the reply..

************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com.

[Guest guest]

Thanks for the reply.

So are you giving her any probiotics.

My son has been doing SCD for about 8 months now.

We have given him probiotics on and off. It does seem

that he has an aggressive reaction to the probiotics.

What can you do instead.

Pam

************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com.

[Guest guest]

> >

> > Please tell me more about dlactic acid acidosis.

> > Pam

> >

> > D-lactic acic acidosis is mentioned in BTVC on pages 48 and 55 and

> causes neurological symptoms such as aggressiveness, disorientation,

> blurred vision, blunted judgement, abusive behaviour, slurred speech,

> staggering gait, rolling of the eye-balls,confusion and delirium. I

> think these symptoms are reported in adults so who knows with

> children.

Please those reading this entire post, remeber that the casein in SCD goat

yogurt gets

denatured.

Carol F.

SCD7 years, celiac

[Guest guest]

if it gets totally denatured then why do they recommend that children

who have been casein free gradaully build up? Why do other parents

report their children are intolerant of it, yet they tolerate

probiotics in the pill form? I am very confused???

> > >

> > > Please tell me more about dlactic acid acidosis.

> > > Pam

> > >

> > > D-lactic acic acidosis is mentioned in BTVC on pages 48 and 55

and

> > causes neurological symptoms such as aggressiveness,

disorientation,

> > blurred vision, blunted judgement, abusive behaviour, slurred

speech,

> > staggering gait, rolling of the eye-balls,confusion and

delirium. I

> > think these symptoms are reported in adults so who knows with

> > children.

>

> Please those reading this entire post, remeber that the casein in

SCD goat yogurt gets

> denatured.

>

> Carol F.

> SCD7 years, celiac

>

[Guest guest]

I think this is what is happening with my son. He has been on SCD

for about 8 months. We have given him probiotics on and off during

this time and I have always had a gut feeling that it is causing a

reaction. I thought maybe it was something in th probiotic. Is

there a test for this? is there something else you can give instead

of a probiotic?

Thanks

Pam

> >

> > Please tell me more about dlactic acid acidosis.

> > Pam

> >

> > D-lactic acic acidosis is mentioned in BTVC on pages 48 and 55

and

> causes neurological symptoms such as aggressiveness,

disorientation,

> blurred vision, blunted judgement, abusive behaviour, slurred

speech,

> staggering gait, rolling of the eye-balls,confusion and delirium.

I

> think these symptoms are reported in adults so who knows with

> children. and Blass reported it in a small study of

autistic

> children in The Journal of Development Disorders, 1985. The attacks

> last between 36-80 hours, and can occur with short-bowel

syndrome/or

> surgery. It is caused when undigested carbs are fermented by

> bacteria. I have requested that my daughter has a lactulose breath

> test and am waiting for this to be set up. This is to see whether

she

> has small bowel bacterial overgrowth. She is fed via NG tube and

the

> feed, when increased causes behaviour changes. I have blamed carbs

for

> this for a couple of years, as oral carbs cause the same thing. I

> stumbled my way to this site and Pecanbread.com and the foods I now

> give her do not cause this change.

> >

> Regards

>

> Glynis mam to Jasmine 7yrs

> Diagnosed with Kabuki Syndrome

> and NG tube fed.

> > ************************************** See what's free at

> http://www.aol.com.

> >

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

>

> Thanks for the reply.

> So are you giving her any probiotics.

> My son has been doing SCD for about 8 months now.

> We have given him probiotics on and off. It does seem

> that he has an aggressive reaction to the probiotics.

> What can you do instead.

> Pam

>

> I only give Jasmine SCD yoghurt as a probiotic, and only 1/8 tspoon

per day. Other probiotics have caused her problems, even at tiny

amounts. I am not able to do SCD with her as her feed contains

illegals, but have nagged her gastroenterologist into trying a new feed

which contains fructose as the carbohydrate. This will take some weeks

to implement as it means a stay overnight in hospital, she has severe

hypoglycaemia and there's concerns her blood sugar level might not last

thu' the night with the fructose based feed. The SCD foods she does

have don't cause her problems which is a huge relief for us.

Regards

Glynis mam to Jasmine 7 yrs

Diagnosed with Kabuki Syndrome

and NG tube fed

>

> ************************************** See what's free at

http://www.aol.com.

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

,

There are two reasons for introducing the yogurt with tiny amounts:

1 The yogurt has a very high dose of probiotics and might produce a

strong die off reaction. You need to start out with minute amounts.

2 The latest scientific research links the poison from gut bacteria to

the negative reaction to dairy. (The latest scientific research finds

it to be a dairy isue rather than a casein issue. )

http://www.pecanbread.com/new/researchdairyissue.html

We want to make sure that the gut has healed before trying the dairy.

We want to try a small amount in case the gut did not have sufficient

time to heal.

Please wait at least one month before trying the yogurt; 3 months in

case your child has an extreme sensitivity. Pam Ferro RN has told me

that one of her clients could not tolerate the yogurt until the mother

dripped it for 3 days. Dripping eliminates the galactose in dairy.

Maybe some of our children are intolerant to the galactose in the goat

yogurt.

The traditional way to drip the yogurt:

http://uclbs.org/recipes/dairy/suegoatcheese.php

The easy way to drip the yogurt:

http://www.digestivewellness.com/itempage-1048-24-13-1584.html

Mimi

On 4/18/07, jessicaclarkasd <no_reply > wrote:

> if it gets totally denatured then why do they recommend that children

> who have been casein free gradaully build up? Why do other parents

> report their children are intolerant of it, yet they tolerate

> probiotics in the pill form? I am very confused???

>

>

>

>

> > > >

> > > > Please tell me more about dlactic acid acidosis.

> > > > Pam

> > > >

> > > > D-lactic acic acidosis is mentioned in BTVC on pages 48 and 55

> and

> > > causes neurological symptoms such as aggressiveness,

> disorientation,

> > > blurred vision, blunted judgement, abusive behaviour, slurred

> speech,

> > > staggering gait, rolling of the eye-balls,confusion and

> delirium. I

> > > think these symptoms are reported in adults so who knows with

> > > children.

> >

> > Please those reading this entire post, remeber that the casein in

> SCD goat yogurt gets

> > denatured.

> >

> > Carol F.

> > SCD7 years, celiac

> >

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Hi ,

<<His bowel movements are pretty much mush, like dark, pureed,

> butternut squash. They are slightly formed, but most of the time

> they're not. I give him laxatives daily. >>

What is the frequency of his bm's? What is the laxative?

<< Is it normal to eat that much food-for a 4-year-old, almost five,

> that weighs like 41 pounds? >>

Yes, huge increases in hunger are very common. Moms and Dads often

find they do *a lot* of cooking and food preparation especially at

the beginning of the diet.

Once people start the diet they often have increased

appetites for a few reasons:

-they don't feel sick anymore and actually get their appetite back

-their body is switching from rumen type digestion to actual human

digestion

-their body is healing (which will burn extra calories)

- and the big one we have noticed on the children's list is that

they start catching up in growth. Many have reported huge growth

spurts. Their body is able to continue normal growth patterns now

that it is absorbing nutrients whereas preSCD many have reported

their kids were at the lower percentiles for weight and height.

> Do you think the problem behavior could be do to the casein?

I think that the problem may be that your son does not tolerate the

yogurt yet. It may be the casein, it may be the additional enzymes,

it may be die off. I would wait at least a few weeks before trying

again. If you retry the goat yogurt start with an 1/8 tsp or less on

the first day, skip 1-2 days and if all is well try 1/8 tsp again.

If symptoms reoccur wait at least 1 month more. If no symptoms then

try 1/4 tsp. Skipping a day between is a good idea until you get to

larger amounts.

<< What should I do about him BM problems? >>

If he has constipation see http://www.breakingtheviciouscycle.info/

Go to the " Knowledge Base " and then to

1. " Constipation " and

2. " Constipation continued "

Sheila, SCD Feb. 2001, UC 23 yrs

mom of and

[Guest guest]

Hi Pam,

<< I think this is what is happening with my son. He has been on SCD

> for about 8 months. We have given him probiotics on and off during

> this time and I have always had a gut feeling that it is causing a

> reaction. I thought maybe it was something in th probiotic. Is

> there a test for this? is there something else you can give

instead of a probiotic? >>

How about non dairy fermented foods? When I was unable to tolerate

yogurt I made some sauerkraut. I didn't try the cabbage but poured

off the juice which was rich with good bacteria. You can make

sauerkraut either with yogurt starter (the SCDophilus is dairy free)

or without starter (by using the natural bacteria in the cabbage).

You can ferment other veggies besides cabbage with yogurt starter.

Sheila, SCD Feb. 2001, UC 23 yrs

mom of and

[Guest guest]

>

> Hi ,

>

> <<His bowel movements are pretty much mush, like dark, pureed,

> > butternut squash. They are slightly formed, but most of the time

> > they're not. I give him laxatives daily. >>

>

> What is the frequency of his bm's? What is the laxative?

>

>

> << Is it normal to eat that much food-for a 4-year-old, almost

five,

> > that weighs like 41 pounds? >>

>

> Yes, huge increases in hunger are very common. Moms and Dads often

> find they do *a lot* of cooking and food preparation especially at

> the beginning of the diet.

>

> Once people start the diet they often have increased

> appetites for a few reasons:

> -they don't feel sick anymore and actually get their appetite back

> -their body is switching from rumen type digestion to actual human

> digestion

> -their body is healing (which will burn extra calories)

> - and the big one we have noticed on the children's list is that

> they start catching up in growth. Many have reported huge growth

> spurts. Their body is able to continue normal growth patterns now

> that it is absorbing nutrients whereas preSCD many have reported

> their kids were at the lower percentiles for weight and height.

>

>

>

> > Do you think the problem behavior could be do to the casein?

>

> I think that the problem may be that your son does not tolerate the

> yogurt yet. It may be the casein, it may be the additional

enzymes,

> it may be die off. I would wait at least a few weeks before trying

> again. If you retry the goat yogurt start with an 1/8 tsp or less

on

> the first day, skip 1-2 days and if all is well try 1/8 tsp again.

> If symptoms reoccur wait at least 1 month more. If no symptoms

then

> try 1/4 tsp. Skipping a day between is a good idea until you get

to

> larger amounts.

>

>

> << What should I do about him BM problems? >>

>

> If he has constipation see http://www.breakingtheviciouscycle.info/

> Go to the " Knowledge Base " and then to

> 1. " Constipation " and

> 2. " Constipation continued "

>

>

> Sheila, SCD Feb. 2001, UC 23 yrs

> mom of and

>

He is on dulcolax suppositories (1/2)-we have been giving him this

since last year. Enzymes have been given sporadically for a year now

with no reaction noted other than FIRMER stools. As far as probiotics

are concerned, he was taking Custom Probiotics at one time, plus

others-so, that would have been like 80 BILLION per day, not

including culterelle-he did fine on this. I am very confused, because

he is only getting 9 billion acidophilus/day, and when I introduced a

little of the dripped goat yogurt he acts as if he is hallucinating,

but maybe it was the " dairy " itself-I just don't know. Does anyone

have any good recipes for fermented foods that a child could eat that

is complicant with stage 1 or 2 of the diet. He will take just about

anything I give him as far as medicine, so taste isn't an issue.

Thanks, I would really like to start giving him more probiotic

foods...

[Guest guest]

Hi ,

<< He is on dulcolax suppositories (1/2)-we have been giving him this

> since last year. Enzymes have been given sporadically for a year

now

> with no reaction noted other than FIRMER stools. >>

You wrote " His bowel movements are pretty much mush, like dark,

pureed,> butternut squash. They are slightly formed, but most of the

time> they're not. I give him laxatives daily "

- Is he having daily bm's?

- Without the laxatives is he constipated with a.) dry hard stools,

b.) infrequent stools c.) combination of both etc.

- Are you using any enzymes now? If yes, whih one(s)?

<<Does anyone > have any good recipes for fermented foods that a

child could eat that is complicant with stage 1 or 2 of the diet. He

will take just about anything I give him as far as medicine, so

taste isn't an issue.

> Thanks, I would really like to start giving him more probiotic

foods... >>

There are some recipes for fermented foods at

http://pecanbread.com/new/fermented1.html

If you try homemade sauerkraut just drink the tangy juice and avoid

the fibrous cabbage - too advanced for him right now. You can make

sauerkraut either with yogurt starter (the SCDophilus is dairy free)

or without starter (by using the natural bacteria in the cabbage).

You can ferment other veggies besides cabbage with yogurt starter, so

you could ferment any vegetable that he now tolerates. I'd still

start with just the juices to see how he does with them.

Sheila, SCD Feb. 2001, UC 23 yrs

mom of and