Re: SCD vs. Oxaltes?

[Guest guest]

Ang,

Please go to http://www.pecanbread.com/new/ox1.html and read every thing there

as well as the links to Catharine Tamaro's paper. This will help you not feel

defeated. Its very interesting and may answer the questions you have.

Charlene

<><

Charlene Flikkema

Choir Director

Harvest Bible Chapel Oakville

Spirit Led! Galations 5:16

SCD vs. Oxaltes?

A couple of months ago I sat in on a online conference with Dr.

Shaw of Great Plains Labs/ New Beginnings with the subject

being, " Oxalates and Autism " . I spent three hours listening and

watching a powerpoint presentation about oxaltes and pictures that

scared me to death! I typed a question in regard to my daughter's diet

being SCD and his views on that. He shot the whole diet down and

seriously believed that it really does not do anything. He suggested I

go back to GF/CF with the low Oxalate diet attached. I felt very

defeated! My DAN who works very close with DR. Shaw was the one who

told me she needed SCD and now I need to go backward? I would LOVE any

feedback on this. Thanks, Ang

[Guest guest]

>

> A couple of months ago I sat in on a online conference with Dr.

> Shaw of Great Plains Labs/ New Beginnings with the subject

> being, " Oxalates and Autism " . I spent three hours listening and

> watching a powerpoint presentation about oxaltes and pictures that

> scared me to death! I typed a question in regard to my daughter's diet

> being SCD and his views on that. He shot the whole diet down and

> seriously believed that it really does not do anything. He suggested I

> go back to GF/CF with the low Oxalate diet attached. I felt very

> defeated! My DAN who works very close with DR. Shaw was the one who

> told me she needed SCD and now I need to go backward? I would LOVE any

> feedback on this. Thanks, Ang

>

Ang, You need to read the latest research we have been doing on this and make an

informed decison. The VSL #3 on the low oxalate diet is not good for SCD and

SCD yogurt

is just as powerful. We haverecently been researching this.

GFCF contains starch and polysaccharides that will interfere with starving out

bad gut

bacteria.

I will not be the one to tell you to contradict your doctor yet I think trying

SCD for a month

is worthwhile. Dr. Sydney Baker, a leading DAN practitioner considers SCD the

best diet

for autism.

The oxalate theory used in dietary intervention for autism is very new and

unproven. Some

who tried to combine such a diet with SCD became ill. I feel SCD does not need

constant

defense. Our archives of improvement and success are plentiful. If you want to

try SCD,

askyour doctor if he/she s willing to have you do so for one month.

Carol F.

SCD 7 years

[Guest guest]

Hi Ang -

Has you done an OAT to determine if your child has high oxalic acid? This (or

other tests) may be able to give you guidance as to if reducing oxalates makes

sense. As far as if SCD works or not, I think it is safe to say it works for

some, and not for others. Many parents will report die off reactions in their

children at regular intervals; start up, 2 months, 4 months, ect. In many cases

this is accompanied by a rash. If you give SCD a shot and see the behavioral

changes and/or physiological changes your concerns from a webcast commentary

will fade. If you see no changes after a few months on SCD, it may not be right

for you.

Your other option might be an experiment. Withhold all complex carbohydrates

for a few weeks. Then one weekend let free with rice, fries, corn chips and

anything else and see what happens. Your child's behavior will likely tell you

what you need to know.

brian

SCD vs. Oxaltes?

A couple of months ago I sat in on a online conference with Dr.

Shaw of Great Plains Labs/ New Beginnings with the subject

being, " Oxalates and Autism " . I spent three hours listening and

watching a powerpoint presentation about oxaltes and pictures that

scared me to death! I typed a question in regard to my daughter's diet

being SCD and his views on that. He shot the whole diet down and

seriously believed that it really does not do anything. He suggested I

go back to GF/CF with the low Oxalate diet attached. I felt very

defeated! My DAN who works very close with DR. Shaw was the one who

told me she needed SCD and now I need to go backward? I would LOVE any

feedback on this. Thanks, Ang

__________________________________________________

[Guest guest]

>

> Hi Ang -

>

> Has you done an OAT to determine if your child has high oxalic acid? This (or

other

tests) may be able to give you guidance as to if reducing oxalates makes sense.

As far as

if SCD works or not, I think it is safe to say it works for some, and not for

others. Many

parents will report die off reactions in their children at regular intervals;

start up, 2

months, 4 months, ect. In many cases this is accompanied by a rash. If you

give SCD a

shot and see the behavioral changes and/or physiological changes your concerns

from a

webcast commentary will fade. If you see no changes after a few months on SCD,

it may

not be right for you.

>

> Your other option might be an experiment. Withhold all complex carbohydrates

for a

few weeks. Then one weekend let free with rice, fries, corn chips and anything

else and

see what happens. Your child's behavior will likely tell you what you need to

know.

>

> brian

>

,

Complex carbs are not even on the SCD diet which is the focus of this list so

how would

they be withdrawn?

I personally would never endorse the experiment you suggest for a child that has

been on

SCD as it could be disastrous to bombard the digestive system with so many toxic

foods, (

foods that don't even get re-introduced to children that are healed) Our list

guideline do

not support such protocols and experiments.

We address the oxalate issues at:

http://www.pecanbread.com/new/ox1.html

Carol F.

SCD 7 years, celiac

[Guest guest]

I made lots of mistakes when I started SCD for my family. It is very

easy to make mistakes with SCD but there is lots of help to correct

these mistakes and change " failure with SCD " into " success with SCD " .

The following webpages will help you:

http://www.pecanbread.com/new/overcome1.html

http://www.pecanbread.com/new/Improvethediet.htm

The SCD counselors have an outstanding record for improving the

outcome of their clients. The results from SCD are worth a million

dollars; why not spend $50 or $100 to insure this success with SCD.

I had a telephone conversation with Sheila recently and she told me

that she had been able to help every client of hers. I also had a

similar record when I used to give free counseling. Only once did we

not succeeed. (Unfortunately, I no longer have the time for

counseling. )

All the best,

Mimi

> If you see no changes after a

> few months on SCD, it may not be right for you.

>

[Guest guest]

Hi Carol -

I wasn't sure the OP had completely gone SCD or not. It looks like she has.

As far as I am aware, there are no reliable and accessible diagnostics for

determining if the bacterial imbalances SCD is designed to counteract actually

exist in a particular person. Until this is rectified, we need a mechanism for

determining if SCD is helping our children. In many instances, the only tool

for determining if SCD is helping is the behavior of our children. As many of

us are using SCD with a variety of other things, making this determination with

certainty can be difficult. The test I described could go a long ways in

achieving that certainty. In all likelyhood the child in the post spent 90%+ of

her life eating foods restricted on SCD with regularity; what needs to be

evaluated is the benifit from having certainty SCD is right for the child versus

the cost of a few more days out of literally thousands of days eating complex

carbs. As far as not supporting expirementation, putting autistic children on

SCD is a very laborious experiment to start with.

I'd like to say, I am a beleiver in SCD for our child, but only because we saw

the changes in our child's stool, behavior, and cognitive skills that others

have reported. What's more, we experienced the predicted die off reactions I

described in my post. But that doesn't mean that every autistic child needs to

go SCD. The OP (apparently) hasn't seen enough to convince her that SCD is

helping her child.

brian

Re: SCD vs. Oxaltes?

>

> Hi Ang -

>

> Has you done an OAT to determine if your child has high oxalic acid? This (or

other

tests) may be able to give you guidance as to if reducing oxalates makes sense.

As far as

if SCD works or not, I think it is safe to say it works for some, and not for

others. Many

parents will report die off reactions in their children at regular intervals;

start up, 2

months, 4 months, ect. In many cases this is accompanied by a rash. If you give

SCD a

shot and see the behavioral changes and/or physiological changes your concerns

from a

webcast commentary will fade. If you see no changes after a few months on SCD,

it may

not be right for you.

>

> Your other option might be an experiment. Withhold all complex carbohydrates

for a

few weeks. Then one weekend let free with rice, fries, corn chips and anything

else and

see what happens. Your child's behavior will likely tell you what you need to

know.

>

> brian

>

,

Complex carbs are not even on the SCD diet which is the focus of this list so

how would

they be withdrawn?

I personally would never endorse the experiment you suggest for a child that has

been on

SCD as it could be disastrous to bombard the digestive system with so many toxic

foods, (

foods that don't even get re-introduced to children that are healed) Our list

guideline do

not support such protocols and experiments.

We address the oxalate issues at:

http://www.pecanbre ad.com/new/ ox1.html

Carol F.

SCD 7 years, celiac

__________________________________________________

[Guest guest]

>

> Hi Carol -

>

>

> I'd like to say, I am a beleiver in SCD for our child, but only because we saw

the changes

in our child's stool, behavior, and cognitive skills that others have reported.

What's more,

we experienced the predicted die off reactions I described in my post. But that

doesn't

mean that every autistic child needs to go SCD. The OP (apparently) hasn't seen

enough to

convince her that SCD is helping her child.

>

> brian

>

>

I have archived posts since 2002 where people reported similar improvements.

Have her:

a: check our web site:

b.. Try it. If she can hack it until after the initial die off, several weeks

on SCD will rveal if

it lives up to its positive notices.

Carol F.

SCD 7 years, celiac

[Guest guest]

and Carol,

Yes, my 4 year old daughter has been SCD for 1 1/2 years now. Before

that we were GFCFSF for a year with gains until she all of a sudden

became very aggressive. Our DAN did an organic oat test and said she

had high levels of clostridia in her system which he speculated was

the cause of her agression. She is also one of those kiddos who had

frequent bouts of ear infections and was given tons of antibiotics,

so we knew before yeast was a problem. Changing diets was not easy,

we had to incorparate it without eggs, but I did what I was told and

the agression dropped huge! I have challenged this diet once by

giving GF fries for dinner one night and the next day she was a mess.

I don't question the validity of this diet at all, I guess my

concerns are that I still might be missing something such as the

oxalates. My DAN also told me this diet was to help heal her gut so

one day she could tolerate normal food even gluten and casein. Is

there an end? Will her gut heal or do I need to search harder or do

more tests to understand what is going on in there? Although behavior

is quite well her bowels go up and down in consistantcy which

confuses me since she eats the same thing every day for every meal!

Could you inform me of what exactly a yeast die off looks like? She

does get the pimple like rashes on her bottom sometimes worse than

others but I stumped otherwise. My kiddo is also chelating with

suppositories so I can by pass the gut, they to are also SCD

compliant. Any suggestions from this group would be great. I am very

exhausted and I want to find out if I am doing the right things.

Thanks to all for your responses.

Ang

> >

> > Hi Ang -

> >

> > Has you done an OAT to determine if your child has high oxalic

acid? This (or other

> tests) may be able to give you guidance as to if reducing oxalates

makes sense. As far as

> if SCD works or not, I think it is safe to say it works for some,

and not for others. Many

> parents will report die off reactions in their children at regular

intervals; start up, 2

> months, 4 months, ect. In many cases this is accompanied by a rash.

If you give SCD a

> shot and see the behavioral changes and/or physiological changes

your concerns from a

> webcast commentary will fade. If you see no changes after a few

months on SCD, it may

> not be right for you.

> >

> > Your other option might be an experiment. Withhold all complex

carbohydrates for a

> few weeks. Then one weekend let free with rice, fries, corn chips

and anything else and

> see what happens. Your child's behavior will likely tell you what

you need to know.

> >

> > brian

> >

> ,

>

> Complex carbs are not even on the SCD diet which is the focus of

this list so how would

> they be withdrawn?

>

> I personally would never endorse the experiment you suggest for a

child that has been on

> SCD as it could be disastrous to bombard the digestive system with

so many toxic foods, (

> foods that don't even get re-introduced to children that are

healed) Our list guideline do

> not support such protocols and experiments.

>

> We address the oxalate issues at:

>

> http://www.pecanbre ad.com/new/ ox1.html

>

> Carol F.

> SCD 7 years, celiac

>

>

>

>

> __________________________________________________

>

[Guest guest]

Hi Ang -

The OAT test will tell you how much oxalic acid your child is carrying around

and generally is a good indicator of if she has an oxalate problem. I am told

that SCD/LOD can be accomplished. (It ain't easy) We are trying now with mixed

results. The trying_lox_oxalates group on yahoo has some good information on

going LOD. They've also got a list of foods that are high oxalate. Almonds, in

particular are high oxalate, and tragically a key ingredient in SCD. Try out

the group, they've got good information.

It sounds like you've tested w/complex carbs and have your answer as far as the

effectiveness of SCD.

Re: SCD vs. Oxaltes?

and Carol,

Yes, my 4 year old daughter has been SCD for 1 1/2 years now. Before

that we were GFCFSF for a year with gains until she all of a sudden

became very aggressive. Our DAN did an organic oat test and said she

had high levels of clostridia in her system which he speculated was

the cause of her agression. She is also one of those kiddos who had

frequent bouts of ear infections and was given tons of antibiotics,

so we knew before yeast was a problem. Changing diets was not easy,

we had to incorparate it without eggs, but I did what I was told and

the agression dropped huge! I have challenged this diet once by

giving GF fries for dinner one night and the next day she was a mess.

I don't question the validity of this diet at all, I guess my

concerns are that I still might be missing something such as the

oxalates. My DAN also told me this diet was to help heal her gut so

one day she could tolerate normal food even gluten and casein. Is

there an end? Will her gut heal or do I need to search harder or do

more tests to understand what is going on in there? Although behavior

is quite well her bowels go up and down in consistantcy which

confuses me since she eats the same thing every day for every meal!

Could you inform me of what exactly a yeast die off looks like? She

does get the pimple like rashes on her bottom sometimes worse than

others but I stumped otherwise. My kiddo is also chelating with

suppositories so I can by pass the gut, they to are also SCD

compliant. Any suggestions from this group would be great. I am very

exhausted and I want to find out if I am doing the right things.

Thanks to all for your responses.

Ang

> >

> > Hi Ang -

> >

> > Has you done an OAT to determine if your child has high oxalic

acid? This (or other

> tests) may be able to give you guidance as to if reducing oxalates

makes sense. As far as

> if SCD works or not, I think it is safe to say it works for some,

and not for others. Many

> parents will report die off reactions in their children at regular

intervals; start up, 2

> months, 4 months, ect. In many cases this is accompanied by a rash.

If you give SCD a

> shot and see the behavioral changes and/or physiological changes

your concerns from a

> webcast commentary will fade. If you see no changes after a few

months on SCD, it may

> not be right for you.

> >

> > Your other option might be an experiment. Withhold all complex

carbohydrates for a

> few weeks. Then one weekend let free with rice, fries, corn chips

and anything else and

> see what happens. Your child's behavior will likely tell you what

you need to know.

> >

> > brian

> >

> ,

>

> Complex carbs are not even on the SCD diet which is the focus of

this list so how would

> they be withdrawn?

>

> I personally would never endorse the experiment you suggest for a

child that has been on

> SCD as it could be disastrous to bombard the digestive system with

so many toxic foods, (

> foods that don't even get re-introduced to children that are

healed) Our list guideline do

> not support such protocols and experiments.

>

> We address the oxalate issues at:

>

> http://www.pecanbre ad.com/new/ ox1.html

>

> Carol F.

> SCD 7 years, celiac

>

>

>

>

> ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ __

>

[Guest guest]

>

My DAN also told me this diet was to help heal her gut so

> one day she could tolerate normal food even gluten and casein. Is

> there an end? Will her gut heal or do I need to search harder or do

> more tests to understand what is going on in there?

No one can predict. I have no statistics and few reports of people who are back

on the

Standard American Diet (not called " SAD " for nothing)

Elaine was not happy with a lot of the testing, felt it was too costly and

uneccessary and

that the doctors took advantage of desperate parents..

My own goal has never been to eat gluten again. I am fortunate to tolerate the

SCD legal

dairy,...goat yogurt, goat and cow cheeses...pretty well so casein is neither a

worry nor a

desire.

My personal goal was only to either heal or control my reaction to foods that

provoke

celiac disease, and for that SCD has been successful. It has controlled bi-polar

mood

swings, and yo yo weight changes as well. I was in multiple distress before SCD

and on

several medications which I no longer require (thyroid, lithium, Xanex)

I decided after sixty-nine years of starch and sugar, even if I can never have

another

bagel, life's been good to me since SCD which I started seven years ago.

It's easy to be an adult who doesn't take supplements or enzymes or undergo

frequent

tests or allow herself to be railroaded by doctors who know nothing about SCD.

It's been

half a century since I was on the night watch with a distressed child in great

pain and

anger so I have to have great empathy and respect for what the parents and their

little

people on this list have to go through.

That said, I have been blessed to see many emerge from the dark tunnel and the

confining

cocoon to lead fuller lives.

Carol F.

SCD7 yeras, MCS, Latex Allergy, EMF, celiac

[Guest guest]

Hi Ang,

Thank you for explaining in detail what is going on. I AM DELIGHTED

TO HEAR THAT SCD HELPED THE BEHAVIOR!! The chelation might still be

messing things up even if it does not go through the gut. I REALLY

recommend getting SCD counseling; it is cheaper than the supplements

on the Low Oxalate Diet.

Also try getting a chelation break.

I understand that you are tempted to try the Low Oxalate Diet. because

there once was the perception that the Low Oxalate Diet. would make

it possible for children to tolerate all foods. Let me explain how

this happened. The mother of the first child who responded well to the

Low Oxalate Diet became the list moderator. The moderator reported

that her son was able to eat many forbidden foods after doing the

Low Oxalate Diet.for about 6 months, Tremendous excitement arose and

everyone assumed that this was going to happen to all the other kids.

Owens, the Low Oxalate Diet.list owner, is a member of the DAN

doctors' list and she reported the exciting news to the DAN list.

Unfortunately, several months later, the moderator reported her son

had a serious regression. It is not clear if the child was ever able

to regain the loss. That mother is no longer very active on that list

and might not be moderator anymore.

Someone once made a list to get parents together to investigate the

idea of combining the Low Oxalate Diet and SCD. Unfortunately, that

person never had the time to get the list active. However, the list is

still there and available for parents to jointly research the oxalate

diet issue.

If anyone wants to explore this issue then they can join that special

list. I will also join and provide the info on how to access from the

archives, the story about the moderator and her son. The list is not

to give directions on how to combine the 2 diets but to evaluate the

benefit of that treatment. Parents working together to explore new

treatments is what Yahoo groups is all about.

Information for registering:

SCDandLOD-subscribe

http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/SCDandLOD/

Mimi

>I guess my

> concerns are that I still might be missing something such as the

> oxalates. My DAN also told me this diet was to help heal her gut so

> one day she could tolerate normal food even gluten and casein. Is

> there an end? Will her gut heal or do I need to search harder or do

> more tests to understand what is going on in there? Although behavior

> is quite well her bowels go up and down in consistantcy which

> confuses me since she eats the same thing every day for every meal!

> Could you inform me of what exactly a yeast die off looks like? She

> does get the pimple like rashes on her bottom sometimes worse than

> others but I stumped otherwise. My kiddo is also chelating with

> suppositories so I can by pass the gut, they to are also SCD

> compliant. Any suggestions from this group would be great. I am very

> exhausted and I want to find out if I am doing the right things.

> Thanks to all for your responses.

> Ang

>

>

>

>

>

> > >

> > > Hi Ang -

> > >

> > > Has you done an OAT to determine if your child has high oxalic

> acid? This (or other

> > tests) may be able to give you guidance as to if reducing oxalates

> makes sense. As far as

> > if SCD works or not, I think it is safe to say it works for some,

> and not for others. Many

> > parents will report die off reactions in their children at regular

> intervals; start up, 2

> > months, 4 months, ect. In many cases this is accompanied by a rash.

> If you give SCD a

> > shot and see the behavioral changes and/or physiological changes

> your concerns from a

> > webcast commentary will fade. If you see no changes after a few

> months on SCD, it may

> > not be right for you.

> > >

> > > Your other option might be an experiment. Withhold all complex

> carbohydrates for a

> > few weeks. Then one weekend let free with rice, fries, corn chips

> and anything else and

> > see what happens. Your child's behavior will likely tell you what

> you need to know.

> > >

> > > brian

> > >

> > ,

> >

> > Complex carbs are not even on the SCD diet which is the focus of

> this list so how would

> > they be withdrawn?

> >

> > I personally would never endorse the experiment you suggest for a

> child that has been on

> > SCD as it could be disastrous to bombard the digestive system with

> so many toxic foods, (

> > foods that don't even get re-introduced to children that are

> healed) Our list guideline do

> > not support such protocols and experiments.

> >

> > We address the oxalate issues at:

> >

> > http://www.pecanbre ad.com/new/ ox1.html

> >

> > Carol F.

> > SCD 7 years, celiac

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > __________________________________________________

> >