Re: SCD vs. Oxalates?

[Guest guest]

I would like to say something about this because the

Trying_Low_Oxalates list files contain a lot of misinformation about

diets and nutrition. I have written in the past about how much of

the nutritional information given on that list is misleading, and

the information on Vitamin D and calcium absorption is just plain

wrong. The list owner has no education in nutrition.

Almonds and beans are high in oxalates but much of the oxalate is

bound to calcium, making it insoluble and therefore inert - it just

passes through the intestines unless oxalate-degrading bacteria

break down the oxalate and free up the calcium for absorption.

Oxalate-degrading bacteria are found in SCD yogurt. Those same

oxalate-degrading bacteria in SCD yogurt can also break down the

soluble oxalate in almonds and beans (soluble means free oxalate not

bound to calcium). In a reverse reaction the soluble oxalates will

bind to calcium, found in cheese and yogurt, thereby making them

insoluble and inert. So dietary oxalates are not nearly such a big

deal as the TLO list makes them out to be.

A huge problem with the Low Oxalate Diet is that it restricts a

number of fruits and vegetables, all of which are healthy for the

children. It also restricts so many other foods that parents end up

taking their children off SCD, with bad results. I have followed

that list closely since its inception and only a small handful of

children on LOD have actually improved, most of whom are on SCD,

while many other children, including mine, have gotten worse on

LOD. A handful of foods - peanuts, cashews, rhubarb, and chocolate

which is SCD-illegal anyway - should probably not be eaten because

they are very high in soluble oxalates but restricting fruits and

vegetables is going in exactly the wrong direction.

I am strongly of the opinion that dietary absorption is not the

major source of oxalates in the children. Certain species of fungus

are known to produce oxalate, and I believe that a Vitamin K

deficiency also causes the children to produce oxalate. If the

children are producing their own oxalates then restricting dietary

sources has about the same impact as emptying out a swimming pool

with a teacup.

>

> Hi Ang -

>

> The OAT test will tell you how much oxalic acid your child is

carrying around and generally is a good indicator of if she has an

oxalate problem. I am told that SCD/LOD can be accomplished. (It

ain't easy) We are trying now with mixed results. The

trying_lox_oxalates group on yahoo has some good information on

going LOD. They've also got a list of foods that are high oxalate.

Almonds, in particular are high oxalate, and tragically a key

ingredient in SCD. Try out the group, they've got good

information.

>

> It sounds like you've tested w/complex carbs and have your answer

as far as the effectiveness of SCD.

[Guest guest]

Hi ,

Thank you for clarifying this to the list and explaining about

soluble and insoluble oxalates. If list members need/would like

further information or to discuss this can you please give/repost us

some appropriate links.

Sheila, SCD Feb. 2001, UC 23yrs,

mom of and

> I would like to say something about this because the

> Trying_Low_Oxalates list files contain a lot of misinformation

about

> diets and nutrition. I have written in the past about how much of

> the nutritional information given on that list is misleading, and

> the information on Vitamin D and calcium absorption is just plain

> wrong. The list owner has no education in nutrition.

>

> Almonds and beans are high in oxalates but much of the oxalate is

> bound to calcium, making it insoluble and therefore inert - it just

> passes through the intestines unless oxalate-degrading bacteria

> break down the oxalate and free up the calcium for absorption.

> Oxalate-degrading bacteria are found in SCD yogurt. Those same

> oxalate-degrading bacteria in SCD yogurt can also break down the

> soluble oxalate in almonds and beans (soluble means free oxalate

not

> bound to calcium). In a reverse reaction the soluble oxalates will

> bind to calcium, found in cheese and yogurt, thereby making them

> insoluble and inert. So dietary oxalates are not nearly such a big

> deal as the TLO list makes them out to be.

>

> A huge problem with the Low Oxalate Diet is that it restricts a

> number of fruits and vegetables, all of which are healthy for the

> children. It also restricts so many other foods that parents end

up

> taking their children off SCD, with bad results. I have followed

> that list closely since its inception and only a small handful of

> children on LOD have actually improved, most of whom are on SCD,

> while many other children, including mine, have gotten worse on

> LOD. A handful of foods - peanuts, cashews, rhubarb, and chocolate

> which is SCD-illegal anyway - should probably not be eaten because

> they are very high in soluble oxalates but restricting fruits and

> vegetables is going in exactly the wrong direction.

>

> I am strongly of the opinion that dietary absorption is not the

> major source of oxalates in the children. Certain species of

fungus

> are known to produce oxalate, and I believe that a Vitamin K

> deficiency also causes the children to produce oxalate. If the

> children are producing their own oxalates then restricting dietary

> sources has about the same impact as emptying out a swimming pool

> with a teacup.

>

>

>

>

> >

> > Hi Ang -

> >

> > The OAT test will tell you how much oxalic acid your child is

> carrying around and generally is a good indicator of if she has an

> oxalate problem. I am told that SCD/LOD can be accomplished. (It

> ain't easy) We are trying now with mixed results. The

> trying_lox_oxalates group on yahoo has some good information on

> going LOD. They've also got a list of foods that are high

oxalate.

> Almonds, in particular are high oxalate, and tragically a key

> ingredient in SCD. Try out the group, they've got good

> information.

> >

> > It sounds like you've tested w/complex carbs and have your answer

> as far as the effectiveness of SCD.

>