update w/ many questions

[Guest guest]

My son has been eating starch-free since February and we are soon to take the

plunge with the intro diet -- depending on what some of his labs indicate. This

was the way we planned to do this diet, as cold-turkey is always a big mistake

with him! While starch-free, he continued to have diarrhea 8-10 times/day,

which we were able to reduce to 6/day when we removed all supplements.

We had a family emergency a week ago (my son was in a situation where he was

not able to eat starch-free) and I need some counsel on what happened. He ate

some gluten-free starches and also some with gluten. When we were GF, he never

showed any reaction to an infraction, so the reaction I was looking for was a

reaction to large amounts of starch, not gluten per se. I personally could not

tell the difference in behavior (probably because of the different dynamics of a

mom watching 3 kids running around vs. a therapist working 1-on-1), but his

music therapist, gymnastic instructor and hab worker did comment that he was not

himself. He was defiant and uninterested in participating -- thought it was

funny to cause trouble. They told me this without me asking, so it was an

unsolicited remark from 3 separate people who do not work together. That being

said -- he had the best stools he has had since we removed starch in February --

they were normal looking instead of

watery diarrhea & he only had 2/day instead of 6 rounds of diarrhea. This

leaves me wondering how I am to trust his stools as an indicator of what he is

tolerating -- especially when foods listed in the intro and stage 1 are often

found to be problematic (carrots/green beans).

For my son, vegetables and fruits of all kinds historically cause diarrhea.

This did not change when we prepared them peeled and cooked. If I avoid fruits

and vegetables, that only leaves meat. I am not too worried about giving him

dairy (except he won't eat the goat yogurt!), but if I could find a way to get

him to eat fruit/vegetables mixed with yogurt -- should that change the

digestibility of fruit/vegetables?

One last question, we had previously used a fiber supplement (one that is

illegal) per GI doc to slow down his hypermotility. It slowed down a bit, but

it really just kept the diarrhea at bay (not a cure). On the early stages of

SCD, there is almost no fiber. Fiber can either slow down or speed up the GI

motility depending on the problem and the amount being digested. If there is no

fiber, what exactly is regulating the GI tract motility?

We meet next month to review my son's stool tests with his GI doctor. She is

looking for problems with his pancreas among other things that would cause his

diarrhea and malabsorption. Has anyone else here had multiple GI problems that

made the results of the diet more complicated to predict? For instance she is

checking his ability to not only digest sugars, but also fats and proteins.

What if he cannot break down more than just starches -- or what if he breaks

those down better than fats and proteins? Anyone been down this road?!

-

---------------------------------

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[Guest guest]

Hi ,

Bacterial toxins cause motility problems. Fruit and veggies are good

foods for motility.

Mimi

>

>

> One last question, we had previously used a fiber supplement (one that is

> illegal) per GI doc to slow down his hypermotility. It slowed down a bit,

> but it really just kept the diarrhea at bay (not a cure). On the early

> stages of SCD, there is almost no fiber. Fiber can either slow down or

> speed up the GI motility depending on the problem and the amount being

> digested. If there is no fiber, what exactly is regulating the GI tract

> motility?

[Guest guest]

Hi ,

Gram negative bacteria emit a lot more poison when they are starved to

death than when they are alive. It is possible that your son was going

through a very long lasting die off reaction and that was preventing

good GI results because the gut bugs were emitting a lot of poison as

they were dying.

When your son consumed starch, the bacteria got some food and

stopped giving out so much toxins and that is why you saw the good

results. However, if your son continues eating starch then the number

of bacteria will increase and the amount of toxins will be very high

again.

Mimi

>

> We had a family emergency a week ago (my son was in a situation where he

> was not able to eat starch-free) and I need some counsel on what happened.

> He ate some gluten-free starches and also some with gluten. When we were

> GF, he never showed any reaction to an infraction, so the reaction I was

> looking for was a reaction to large amounts of starch, not gluten per se. I

> personally could not tell the difference in behavior (probably because of

> the different dynamics of a mom watching 3 kids running around vs. a

> therapist working 1-on-1), but his music therapist, gymnastic instructor and

> hab worker did comment that he was not himself. He was defiant and

> uninterested in participating -- thought it was funny to cause trouble.

> They told me this without me asking, so it was an unsolicited remark from 3

> separate people who do not work together. That being said -- he had the

> best stools he has had since we removed starch in February -- they were

> normal looking instead of

> watery diarrhea & he only had 2/day instead of 6 rounds of diarrhea. This

> leaves me wondering how I am to trust his stools as an indicator of what he

> is tolerating -- especially when foods listed in the intro and stage 1 are

> often found to be problematic (carrots/green beans).

>

[Guest guest]

So if I remove those to stop the hypermotility, he only has meat in his diet.

This is where I do not know how to proceed.

-

pecan post wrote:

Hi ,

Bacterial toxins cause motility problems. Fruit and veggies are good

foods for motility.

Mimi

>

>

> One last question, we had previously used a fiber supplement (one that is

> illegal) per GI doc to slow down his hypermotility. It slowed down a bit,

> but it really just kept the diarrhea at bay (not a cure). On the early

> stages of SCD, there is almost no fiber. Fiber can either slow down or

> speed up the GI motility depending on the problem and the amount being

> digested. If there is no fiber, what exactly is regulating the GI tract

> motility?

---------------------------------

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photos & more.

[Guest guest]

Hi

What exactly are you going to remove?

What is he eating?

> So if I remove those to stop the hypermotility, he only has meat in his

> diet. This is where I do not know how to proceed.

>

> -

>

> pecan post wrote:

> Hi ,

>

> Bacterial toxins cause motility problems. Fruit and veggies are good

> foods for motility.

>

> Mimi

> >

> >

> > One last question, we had previously used a fiber supplement (one that is

> > illegal) per GI doc to slow down his hypermotility. It slowed down a bit,

> > but it really just kept the diarrhea at bay (not a cure). On the early

> > stages of SCD, there is almost no fiber. Fiber can either slow down or

> > speed up the GI motility depending on the problem and the amount being

> > digested. If there is no fiber, what exactly is regulating the GI tract

> > motility?

>

>

>

>

>

> ---------------------------------

> Take the Internet to Go: Yahoo!Go puts the Internet in your pocket: mail,

> news, photos & more.

>

>

[Guest guest]

Dear ,

Fats and oils are supposed to slow down transit time. Can he tolerate olive

oil for example? Judicious use of a little oil might help him tolerate the

vegetable sources of carbs that he needs to balance the meat. Can he eat winter

squash for example? Or peas? How does he do with carrots, especially mashed

with a bit of oil?

Rob or Sunseri wrote:

So if I remove those to stop the hypermotility, he only has meat in

his diet. This is where I do not know how to proceed.

-

pecan post wrote:

Hi ,

Bacterial toxins cause motility problems. Fruit and veggies are good

foods for motility.

Mimi

>

>

> One last question, we had previously used a fiber supplement (one that is

> illegal) per GI doc to slow down his hypermotility. It slowed down a bit,

> but it really just kept the diarrhea at bay (not a cure). On the early

> stages of SCD, there is almost no fiber. Fiber can either slow down or

> speed up the GI motility depending on the problem and the amount being

> digested. If there is no fiber, what exactly is regulating the GI tract

> motility?

---------------------------------

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photos & more.

[Guest guest]

We do lots of oil for that very reason. Thus far I have not found any vegetable

or fruit that does not come out in less than 4 hours -- I don't think there is

one for him! If there is, it's one he won't touch (avacado, butternut squash,

watermelon). He willingly eats all the others.

-

Lake wrote:

Dear ,

Fats and oils are supposed to slow down transit time. Can he tolerate olive oil

for example? Judicious use of a little oil might help him tolerate the vegetable

sources of carbs that he needs to balance the meat. Can he eat winter squash for

example? Or peas? How does he do with carrots, especially mashed with a bit of

oil?

Rob or Sunseri wrote:

So if I remove those to stop the hypermotility, he only has meat in his diet.

This is where I do not know how to proceed.

-

pecan post wrote:

Hi ,

Bacterial toxins cause motility problems. Fruit and veggies are good

foods for motility.

Mimi

>

>

> One last question, we had previously used a fiber supplement (one that is

> illegal) per GI doc to slow down his hypermotility. It slowed down a bit,

> but it really just kept the diarrhea at bay (not a cure). On the early

> stages of SCD, there is almost no fiber. Fiber can either slow down or

> speed up the GI motility depending on the problem and the amount being

> digested. If there is no fiber, what exactly is regulating the GI tract

> motility?

---------------------------------

Take the Internet to Go: Yahoo!Go puts the Internet in your pocket: mail, news,

photos & more.

[Guest guest]

For the past 4 months he has been eating baked meat, overly steamed vegetables

and apple sauce and drinking water. There have been a few other foods I have

tried here and there, but he won't eat them regularly (yogurt, cheese, nut

butter). The diarrhea did not let up for 4 months, so according to everything I

have read on SCD, this is not die off. Stool tests were negative for anything

pathogenic (like clostridia), but showed " non-pathogenic bacterial overgrowth. "

Due to a family emergency where he needed to stay with a friend, he ate a rice

cake and whole grain ezeckial bread. His stools were good as a result of this,

but his behavior not so good. We are now back to the diet above and he now has

good behavior and watery stools full of undigested vegetables.

I think the fiber in the grains helped bulk up his stool and slowed down his

motility, but I don't know how to formally start the intro diet and get thru the

early stages as there is no fiber in that part of the diet.

-

pecan post wrote:

Hi

What exactly are you going to remove?

What is he eating?

> So if I remove those to stop the hypermotility, he only has meat in his

> diet. This is where I do not know how to proceed.

>

> -

>

> pecan post wrote:

> Hi ,

>

> Bacterial toxins cause motility problems. Fruit and veggies are good

> foods for motility.

>

> Mimi

> >

> >

> > One last question, we had previously used a fiber supplement (one that is

> > illegal) per GI doc to slow down his hypermotility. It slowed down a bit,

> > but it really just kept the diarrhea at bay (not a cure). On the early

> > stages of SCD, there is almost no fiber. Fiber can either slow down or

> > speed up the GI motility depending on the problem and the amount being

> > digested. If there is no fiber, what exactly is regulating the GI tract

> > motility?

>

>

>

>

>

> ---------------------------------

> Take the Internet to Go: Yahoo!Go puts the Internet in your pocket: mail,

> news, photos & more.

>

>

[Guest guest]

Hi ,

<<This leaves me wondering how I am to trust his stools as an

indicator of what he is tolerating -- especially when foods listed in

the intro and stage 1 are often found to be problematic

(carrots/green beans). >>

If he still isn't 100% onn the diet you can't be sure that the

carrots and beans will be problematic. They may only be problematic

right now because he is still receiving illegals.

I used to think I could not eat onions, they caused gas and cramping

etc. When I started SCD and cut out the starches etc.. I had no

problem with onions.

<<For my son, vegetables and fruits of all kinds historically cause

diarrhea. This did not change when we prepared them peeled and

cooked. If I avoid fruits and vegetables, that only leaves meat. >>

Has he always had diarrhea?

<< I am not too worried about giving him dairy (except he won't eat

the goat yogurt!), but if I could find a way to get him to eat

fruit/vegetables mixed with yogurt -- should that change the

digestibility of fruit/vegetables? >>

If the fruits and veggies are peeled and cooked (except ripe bananas

which don't need to be cooked) adding them to yogurt will only help.

<<One last question, we had previously used a fiber supplement (one

that is illegal) per GI doc to slow down his hypermotility. It

slowed down a bit, but it really just kept the diarrhea at bay (not a

cure). On the early stages of SCD, there is almost no fiber. Fiber

can either slow down or speed up the GI motility depending on the

problem and the amount being digested. If there is no fiber, what

exactly is regulating the GI tract motility? >>

There are two kinds of fiber: soluble and insoluble fiber. Popular

thought is that soluble fibre helps food stay in the GI tract,

absorbing water from the colon (helps make the stool drier). Some

SCD examples of solubles fibre are Fruits: apples, bananas,

grapefruit, oranges, strawberries, avacado, papaya

Vegetables: carrots, peas, Legumes: lentils, dried peas, beans

(though the legumes are for later in the diet).

The insoluble fibre is the type that gets things moving. Some SCD

examples: apples, melons, lemons, grapefruit, pears

peppers, greens, celery, onions, broccoli(part of the cabbage

family), Nuts.

<<We meet next month to review my son's stool tests with his GI

doctor. She is looking for problems with his pancreas among other

things that would cause his diarrhea and malabsorption. Has anyone

else here had multiple GI problems that made the results of the diet

more complicated to predict? For instance she is checking his

ability to not only digest sugars, but also fats and proteins. What

if he cannot break down more than just starches -- or what if he

breaks those down better than fats and proteins? Anyone been down

this road?! >>

With a damaged gut fats can be more difficult to digest. That is why

Elaine set up the intro diet with very little fat. The food is easy

to digest, feeding the body while starving out harmful microbes. As

healing occurs and malabsorption begins to be corrected the body is

more able to digest all types of foods and nutrients and good fats

etc. can slowly be introduced.

Sheila, SCD Feb. 2001, UC 23 yrs

nmom of and

[Guest guest]

Hi ,

You had asked a question about fiber. I found an interesting article

about fiber and motility. I will post it in a few minutes.

Mimi

> Hi ,

>

> <<This leaves me wondering how I am to trust his stools as an

> indicator of what he is tolerating -- especially when foods listed in

> the intro and stage 1 are often found to be problematic

> (carrots/green beans). >>

>

> If he still isn't 100% onn the diet you can't be sure that the

> carrots and beans will be problematic. They may only be problematic

> right now because he is still receiving illegals.

> I used to think I could not eat onions, they caused gas and cramping

> etc. When I started SCD and cut out the starches etc.. I had no

> problem with onions.

>

>

> <<For my son, vegetables and fruits of all kinds historically cause

> diarrhea. This did not change when we prepared them peeled and

> cooked. If I avoid fruits and vegetables, that only leaves meat. >>

>

> Has he always had diarrhea?

>

> << I am not too worried about giving him dairy (except he won't eat

> the goat yogurt!), but if I could find a way to get him to eat

> fruit/vegetables mixed with yogurt -- should that change the

> digestibility of fruit/vegetables? >>

>

> If the fruits and veggies are peeled and cooked (except ripe bananas

> which don't need to be cooked) adding them to yogurt will only help.

>

> <<One last question, we had previously used a fiber supplement (one

> that is illegal) per GI doc to slow down his hypermotility. It

> slowed down a bit, but it really just kept the diarrhea at bay (not a

> cure). On the early stages of SCD, there is almost no fiber. Fiber

> can either slow down or speed up the GI motility depending on the

> problem and the amount being digested. If there is no fiber, what

> exactly is regulating the GI tract motility? >>

>

> There are two kinds of fiber: soluble and insoluble fiber. Popular

> thought is that soluble fibre helps food stay in the GI tract,

> absorbing water from the colon (helps make the stool drier). Some

> SCD examples of solubles fibre are Fruits: apples, bananas,

> grapefruit, oranges, strawberries, avacado, papaya

> Vegetables: carrots, peas, Legumes: lentils, dried peas, beans

> (though the legumes are for later in the diet).

> The insoluble fibre is the type that gets things moving. Some SCD

> examples: apples, melons, lemons, grapefruit, pears

> peppers, greens, celery, onions, broccoli(part of the cabbage

> family), Nuts.

>

> <<We meet next month to review my son's stool tests with his GI

> doctor. She is looking for problems with his pancreas among other

> things that would cause his diarrhea and malabsorption. Has anyone

> else here had multiple GI problems that made the results of the diet

> more complicated to predict? For instance she is checking his

> ability to not only digest sugars, but also fats and proteins. What

> if he cannot break down more than just starches -- or what if he

> breaks those down better than fats and proteins? Anyone been down

> this road?! >>

>

> With a damaged gut fats can be more difficult to digest. That is why

> Elaine set up the intro diet with very little fat. The food is easy

> to digest, feeding the body while starving out harmful microbes. As

> healing occurs and malabsorption begins to be corrected the body is

> more able to digest all types of foods and nutrients and good fats

> etc. can slowly be introduced.

>

> Sheila, SCD Feb. 2001, UC 23 yrs

> nmom of and

>

>