Trying to get to phase 1 without ruining everything

[Guest guest]

Hi,

I have a confession to make. I've been pretty stupid about starting

out the diet, and I'm starting over.

Stupidity 1: I added goat yogurt on the 4th day. Charlie and I were

both very irritable that day about 4 hours later and most of the rest

of the day. I felt very good the morning of the 5th day, and Charlie

seemed to be doing well, too.

Stupidity 2: I added applesauce made with honey yesterday for the 1st

time and I'm pretty sure we ate too much of it. I was gassy (although

quite modestly by pre-nut diet standards, and not even bad by nut diet

standards, but more than I was used to based on the previous 4 days)

and spacey (which is mostly what I'm used to, a joke, but true too)

later that day; and Charlie, though mostly good, seemed to be more

bi-polar. Today my psoriasis is driving me nuts, which I haven't even

thought about really since starting my 1st pass at the introductory

diet 6 days ago.

I assume that the yogurt isn't a problem, and our irritability was a

die off thing. My impression from our nut diet experience of the last

6 months is that the yogurt helps, and there was no intestinal

distress (at least on my part) at all when we added it on day 4. Our

response appeared to be purely psychological and emotional. And our

stools, when we finally had some in the afternoon on day 5, were quite

solid.

As for the applesauce, I'm concerned about the possibility that there

may be corn syrup in the honey. With the bee problems they keep

talking about in the news, I wonder if it is becoming common practice

to use other sweeteners as filler.

It's been driven home to me very clearly that patience is absolutely

essential when implementing SCD. But I also get the feeling that

there must be at least an element of urgency when adding foods at the

beginning. I remember seeing something in my browsing through BTVC

and the associated web pages where an SCD dieter was chided (by

Elaine, I think) for still being on the introductory diet after 3

weeks. And if after 3 weeks I've only added honey, apples and

zucchini, I might as well be on the introductory diet, still.

My sense is that any dietary changes, whether or not the food can be

tolerated, are likely to cause some changes in the way you feel.

So I have some basic questions:

The best way is to add a food, small quantities at first, and then

gradually increase amounts over the next few or several days. Is

doubling from day to day about right? too much? At what point do you

consider a food " tolerable " , and stop worrying about it as a source of

possible problems? Is two days enough or is more time required? Can

you continue to increase amounts of already-phased-in foods when you

are introducing something brand new, or is that asking for trouble?

Also, it occurs to me that I may be overreacting, which I imagine

would be a pretty natural thing to do during the introductory diet.

Should I just use Bob Dylan's wisdom, i.e. " If something ain't right,

it's wrong, " or should I be a little more tolerant of marginally

undesirable symptoms, so long as it's not really bad?

Finally, about honey, do you all find that commercial honeys are a

reliable source, or do you mostly look for beekeepers who don't look

too shifty?

I apologize for the sound advice I've ignored. I also apologize for

the length of this note. I'm done.

Wayne

[Guest guest]

Hi Wayne,

<<The best way is to add a food, small quantities at first, and then

gradually increase amounts over the next few or several days. Is

doubling from day to day about right? too much?>>

That sounds good. Exceptions: The first time with the yogurt should be very

small - start with 1/8 - 1/4 tsp especially if still experiencing any de off.

There are great tips on the website about the yogurt at

http://www.pecanbread.com/new/yogurt1.html

Foods to which there is a greater possibility of a reaction: eg. phenolic foods

for those with phenol sensitivities (should be tried in small amounts when some

improvements are made; cabbage family foods (should also be tried in small

amounts in case they are still problematic)

If a person has a slow or long transit time they should do small amounts and go

gradually so they know their reaction. If you have a quick transit time you'll

probably know faster if the food agrees.

Mostly you have to 'listen' to your individual body signals for tolerance or

intolerance.

<< At what point do you

consider a food " tolerable " , and stop worrying about it as a source of

possible problems? Is two days enough or is more time required?>>

See above explanation.

<< Can

you continue to increase amounts of already-phased- in foods when you

are introducing something brand new, or is that asking for trouble?>>

Yes, but try to keep the amounts reasonable and balanced. If you are okay with

some cheese and then eat 1/2 pound you may get bound up. Don't laugh it has

happened, but mostly when people overdo the sweets or baked goods.

<<Also, it occurs to me that I may be overreacting, which I imagine

would be a pretty natural thing to do during the introductory diet.

Should I just use Bob Dylan's wisdom, i.e. " If something ain't right,

it's wrong, " or should I be a little more tolerant of marginally

undesirable symptoms, so long as it's not really bad?>>

Look through the die off symptoms and compare there.

http://www.pecanbread.com/new/temporarysymptoms.htmlIf you have cramps or

general unwellness chances are the new food is not agreeing with you yet. If

unsure how to interpret ask the list we've pretty much seen or heard it all and

may be able to help decipher it with you.

<<Finally, about honey, do you all find that commercial honeys are a

reliable source, or do you mostly look for beekeepers who don't look

too shifty?>>

Look for pure or 100% honey on the label. Check the fine prints on commercial

honey. The honey should also be clear to denote that the pollen has been

filtered out (pollen is tough on the gut). Local honeys can be good also - just

check the ingredients.

<<I apologize for the sound advice I've ignored. I also apologize for

the length of this note. I'm done.

No need to apologize - it can be overwhelming at first... and I've seen and

written longer notes - not that that's a challenge! LOL

SheilaRecent Activity

11New Members

Visit Your Group

[Guest guest]

Sheila,

I read your email to Wayne and checked the links, but am still confused.

I've looked at the link you gave for initial symptoms of die off, but I still

can't tell what is happening with my son. His eyes were blacker than normal for

a couple of days. None of those symptoms of initial die off seem to fit him at

all. Bm's sure would be an easier cut and dry way to tell. Behavior

(hyperactivity, spacey, repetitive actions, out of control, etc) is the ONLY way

I have been able to tell but I know sometimes you don't see improvement in

behaviors for a little while. So, how do I know when to introduce another food?

The zucchini and spinach are higher in salicylates so I can't introduce those

right now either. Or should I take the chance even though he is highly

sensitive to sal.'s?

If his behavior worsens, do I back up on the foods some? Do I go ahead when I

get through the green beans safely and mayo, should I start on stage 2 foods or

wait until he tolerates the high sal. stage 1 foods? At what point do I say,

wait a minute, his behavior is still not better, I better go back to the intro?

He started Wednesday afternoon on SCD, so I guess we will be starting day 5

tonight. He was constipated during the intro. I think it was from all the

protein. I have upped his water intake considerably. He can't have apples

right now due to salicylates. He did finally have a bm yesterday, in fact 2

and they were very hard. He was extremely hyper until Friday when he seemed to

start calming down. Then Saturday morning he snuck some tortilla chips - I

think only 3, but chips are chips. His behavior disintegrated yesterday some

and today seems a little worse. Today he has some focus, but not a lot and

mostly he is in constant motion (like the autistic behaviors, repetitive and

such). He's really not hyper, but just scattered and out there a little, aloof

a little. I don't know if it was the chips or what. When should I go to add

more foods and spices/herbs?

Sorry for so many additional questions. My whole family always fits in between

the lines on the page.

Bonita

son - SCD almost 5 days

Asperger's, OCD, ADHD

food allergies

highly salicylate sensitive

Re: Trying to get to phase 1 without ruining everything

Hi Wayne,

<<The best way is to add a food, small quantities at first, and then

gradually increase amounts over the next few or several days. Is

doubling from day to day about right? too much?>>

That sounds good. Exceptions: The first time with the yogurt should be very

small - start with 1/8 - 1/4 tsp especially if still experiencing any de off.

There are great tips on the website about the yogurt at

http://www.pecanbread.com/new/yogurt1.html

Foods to which there is a greater possibility of a reaction: eg. phenolic

foods for those with phenol sensitivities (should be tried in small amounts when

some improvements are made; cabbage family foods (should also be tried in small

amounts in case they are still problematic)

If a person has a slow or long transit time they should do small amounts and

go gradually so they know their reaction. If you have a quick transit time

you'll probably know faster if the food agrees.

Mostly you have to 'listen' to your individual body signals for tolerance or

intolerance.

<< At what point do you

consider a food " tolerable " , and stop worrying about it as a source of

possible problems? Is two days enough or is more time required?>>

See above explanation.

<< Can

you continue to increase amounts of already-phased- in foods when you

are introducing something brand new, or is that asking for trouble?>>

Yes, but try to keep the amounts reasonable and balanced. If you are okay with

some cheese and then eat 1/2 pound you may get bound up. Don't laugh it has

happened, but mostly when people overdo the sweets or baked goods.

<<Also, it occurs to me that I may be overreacting, which I imagine

would be a pretty natural thing to do during the introductory diet.

Should I just use Bob Dylan's wisdom, i.e. " If something ain't right,

it's wrong, " or should I be a little more tolerant of marginally

undesirable symptoms, so long as it's not really bad?>>

Look through the die off symptoms and compare there.

http://www.pecanbread.com/new/temporarysymptoms.htmlIf you have cramps or

general unwellness chances are the new food is not agreeing with you yet. If

unsure how to interpret ask the list we've pretty much seen or heard it all and

may be able to help decipher it with you.

<<Finally, about honey, do you all find that commercial honeys are a

reliable source, or do you mostly look for beekeepers who don't look

too shifty?>>

Look for pure or 100% honey on the label. Check the fine prints on commercial

honey. The honey should also be clear to denote that the pollen has been

filtered out (pollen is tough on the gut). Local honeys can be good also - just

check the ingredients.

<<I apologize for the sound advice I've ignored. I also apologize for

the length of this note. I'm done.

No need to apologize - it can be overwhelming at first... and I've seen and

written longer notes - not that that's a challenge! LOL

SheilaRecent Activity

11New Members

Visit Your Group

[Guest guest]

Sheila,

Correction, his eyes are getting black again today AND he's getting more and

more hyper and out of control. Is that die off again or is that some sort of

die off from the chips?

Bonita

son-, SCD 5 days

ADHD, OCD, Aspergers's

high salicylate sensitive

food allergies

Re: Trying to get to phase 1 without ruining everything

Hi Wayne,

<<The best way is to add a food, small quantities at first, and then

gradually increase amounts over the next few or several days. Is

doubling from day to day about right? too much?>>

That sounds good. Exceptions: The first time with the yogurt should be very

small - start with 1/8 - 1/4 tsp especially if still experiencing any de off.

There are great tips on the website about the yogurt at

http://www.pecanbread.com/new/yogurt1.html

Foods to which there is a greater possibility of a reaction: eg. phenolic

foods for those with phenol sensitivities (should be tried in small amounts when

some improvements are made; cabbage family foods (should also be tried in small

amounts in case they are still problematic)

If a person has a slow or long transit time they should do small amounts and

go gradually so they know their reaction. If you have a quick transit time

you'll probably know faster if the food agrees.

Mostly you have to 'listen' to your individual body signals for tolerance or

intolerance.

<< At what point do you

consider a food " tolerable " , and stop worrying about it as a source of

possible problems? Is two days enough or is more time required?>>

See above explanation.

<< Can

you continue to increase amounts of already-phased- in foods when you

are introducing something brand new, or is that asking for trouble?>>

Yes, but try to keep the amounts reasonable and balanced. If you are okay with

some cheese and then eat 1/2 pound you may get bound up. Don't laugh it has

happened, but mostly when people overdo the sweets or baked goods.

<<Also, it occurs to me that I may be overreacting, which I imagine

would be a pretty natural thing to do during the introductory diet.

Should I just use Bob Dylan's wisdom, i.e. " If something ain't right,

it's wrong, " or should I be a little more tolerant of marginally

undesirable symptoms, so long as it's not really bad?>>

Look through the die off symptoms and compare there.

http://www.pecanbread.com/new/temporarysymptoms.htmlIf you have cramps or

general unwellness chances are the new food is not agreeing with you yet. If

unsure how to interpret ask the list we've pretty much seen or heard it all and

may be able to help decipher it with you.

<<Finally, about honey, do you all find that commercial honeys are a

reliable source, or do you mostly look for beekeepers who don't look

too shifty?>>

Look for pure or 100% honey on the label. Check the fine prints on commercial

honey. The honey should also be clear to denote that the pollen has been

filtered out (pollen is tough on the gut). Local honeys can be good also - just

check the ingredients.

<<I apologize for the sound advice I've ignored. I also apologize for

the length of this note. I'm done.

No need to apologize - it can be overwhelming at first... and I've seen and

written longer notes - not that that's a challenge! LOL

SheilaRecent Activity

11New Members

Visit Your Group

[Guest guest]

Thanks Sheila. For the sake of myself and anyone else who is

following along, I'll try to summarize:

1) Go slow (go really slow with yogurt)

2) Take notes

3) Be honest with yourself and the group

4) Don't be shy about asking for help

5) If it's gone all the way through without causing problems, it's

probably OK.

I appreciate your response.

Wayne

[Guest guest]

Hi Bonita,

<< I've looked at the link you gave for initial symptoms of die off,

but I still can't tell what is happening with my son. His eyes were

blacker than normal for a couple of days. None of those symptoms

of initial die off seem to fit him at all. Bm's sure would be an

easier cut and dry way to tell. Behavior (hyperactivity, spacey,

repetitive actions, out of control, etc) is the ONLY way I have been

able to tell but I know sometimes you don't see improvement in

behaviors for a little while. So, how do I know when to introduce

another food? The zucchini and spinach are higher in salicylates so

I can't introduce those right now either. Or should I take the

chance even though he is highly sensitive to sal.'s?>>

Although some of the problem may be salicylates it may also be die

off. What foods is he eating?

> If his behavior worsens, do I back up on the foods some? Do I go

ahead when I get through the green beans safely and mayo, should I

start on stage 2 foods or wait until he tolerates the high sal.

stage 1 foods?

Asparagus, mushrooms, frozen spinach are relatively low in

salicylates. If his bowels aren't too bad you may want to try these

foods. Are you able to use any of the supplements that help some

people with salicylate issues.?

<< He started Wednesday afternoon on SCD, so I guess we will be

starting day 5 tonight. He was constipated during the intro. I

think it was from all the protein. I have upped his water intake

considerably. He can't have apples right now due to salicylates.>>

Die off can trigger constipation or diarrhea for some people so it

may not have been the protein or only a contributing factor to the

constipation.

Some of the behaviour may be from the constipation. It has been

reported by others.

Most of the phenolic compounds are located near the peel so some

find that double peelin a fruit or veggie (like zucchini) makes them

easiert to tolerate.

<< He did finally have a bm yesterday, in fact 2 and they were very

hard. He was extremely hyper until Friday when he seemed to start

calming down.>>

Then Saturday morning he snuck some tortilla chips - I think only

3, but chips are chips. His behavior disintegrated yesterday some

and today seems a little worse. Today he has some focus, but not a

lot and mostly he is in constant motion (like the autistic

behaviors, repetitive and such). He's really not hyper, but just

scattered and out there a little, aloof a little. I don't know if

it was the chips or what. When should I go to add more foods and

spices/herbs?

If the behaviour after the chip doesn't improve to where it was

Friday (pre-tortilla chip) you may want to redo the intro for a day

or two to " clean " him out.

<<Sorry for so many additional questions. My whole family always

fits in between the lines on the page.>>

No problem. These are common questions and concerns.

Sheila, SCD Feb. 2001, UC 23 yrs, PCOD 22yrs

mom of and

[Guest guest]

Hi Bonita,

<<Correction, his eyes are getting black again today AND he's getting

more and more hyper and out of control. Is that die off again or is

that some sort of die off from the chips?>>

It is probably a combination of both. Epsom salt baths and/or

activated charcoal may help (with both).

Sheila, SCD Feb. 2001, UC 23 yrs, PCOD 22yrs

mom of and

[Guest guest]

Sheila,

He hasn't gotten really out of intro much yet. He eats:

boiled chicken

pureed chicken and carrots together (he really likes this)

boiled carrots

boiled eggs

eggs over easy

I did give him green beans one also.

He started making big behavioral improvements and his black eyes were getting

better Friday. Then he got the chips Sat morning. All day Sat he started

getting worse again. By Sunday evening his eyes were really black again and he

was to the point of being almost out of control. We did have to give him some

of his prescription Clonidine to settle him. I have been doing the Epsom salts

baths, he's likes that too. I can't really tell if it is doing good or not, but

keep doing it as he likes it and the toxins need to come out. I can buy some of

the activated charcoal. Do I get that at a local health food store or will I

have to order it? Is there certain criteria for it or certain brands? Could

this be continual die off after this many days? Should I go on to introduce

more foods regardless?

Oh, I did make some of the electrolyte drink Friday afternoon. I made a quart

and between Friday night and Sat morning, he drank all of it (and really like it

too). Later Sat morning and late Sat night he had bm's and it was very hard.

I haven't tried any of the supplements for phenols. I have been sorting out his

issues and haven't gotten a chance to try them. The only one I know of is No

Phenol and I hear the reaction can be pretty bad for a couple of weeks till they

get used to it. I hadn't had any luck with any of the vitamin or fish oil

supp's so I hadn't tried the phenol yet. It seemed he reacted to everything.

The sal issue with him is bad. Should I go ahead and try the No Phenol or

another brand to help out?

He seems to be getting constipated again too. I have been really pushing water,

but it is still happening. I can give him pearsauce, but he likes it with

allspice in it. That would be 2 new things at once, but that might help with

the constipation?

So, on the zucchini, you should peel it and take the seeds out too? Then it

should be boiled till it's mushy or at this stage, could it be just peeled,

seeded, diced and cook till soft? He really likes pureed foods (never wanted to

go to anything else since he was a baby), so I could boil some frozen spinach

and/or zucchini and puree it in the carrots and chicken. I wouldn't begin to

know what to do with Asparagus. I'm willing to try it if you or anyone else has

a suggestion of how to cook it.

So, I can introduce the legal oils slowly now also?

And the spices?

So, all the foods, spices and oils have to be introduced all one at a time and

that is a little one day and increasing it another day till I know it's okay and

on to the next one. Is that correct? Seems like a long arduous task. Nothing

new to me though.

I usually cooked chicken and especially fish with lime or lemon juice. Can that

be introduced now also. I see raw lemon and limes in the later stage. Does

that mean you can't use it for marinades in cooking meats/fish/poultry?

Last of the questions for now.

It's all so confusing since his " die-off " symptoms seem to go on and on.

Bonita

son, - SCD 5 days

Aspie, ADHD, OCD

food allergies

high salicylate sensitivity

Re: Trying to get to phase 1 without ruining everything

Hi Bonita,

<< I've looked at the link you gave for initial symptoms of die off,

but I still can't tell what is happening with my son. His eyes were

blacker than normal for a couple of days. None of those symptoms

of initial die off seem to fit him at all. Bm's sure would be an

easier cut and dry way to tell. Behavior (hyperactivity, spacey,

repetitive actions, out of control, etc) is the ONLY way I have been

able to tell but I know sometimes you don't see improvement in

behaviors for a little while. So, how do I know when to introduce

another food? The zucchini and spinach are higher in salicylates so

I can't introduce those right now either. Or should I take the

chance even though he is highly sensitive to sal.'s?>>

Although some of the problem may be salicylates it may also be die

off. What foods is he eating?

> If his behavior worsens, do I back up on the foods some? Do I go

ahead when I get through the green beans safely and mayo, should I

start on stage 2 foods or wait until he tolerates the high sal.

stage 1 foods?

Asparagus, mushrooms, frozen spinach are relatively low in

salicylates. If his bowels aren't too bad you may want to try these

foods. Are you able to use any of the supplements that help some

people with salicylate issues.?

<< He started Wednesday afternoon on SCD, so I guess we will be

starting day 5 tonight. He was constipated during the intro. I

think it was from all the protein. I have upped his water intake

considerably. He can't have apples right now due to salicylates.>>

Die off can trigger constipation or diarrhea for some people so it

may not have been the protein or only a contributing factor to the

constipation.

Some of the behaviour may be from the constipation. It has been

reported by others.

Most of the phenolic compounds are located near the peel so some

find that double peelin a fruit or veggie (like zucchini) makes them

easiert to tolerate.

<< He did finally have a bm yesterday, in fact 2 and they were very

hard. He was extremely hyper until Friday when he seemed to start

calming down.>>

Then Saturday morning he snuck some tortilla chips - I think only

3, but chips are chips. His behavior disintegrated yesterday some

and today seems a little worse. Today he has some focus, but not a

lot and mostly he is in constant motion (like the autistic

behaviors, repetitive and such). He's really not hyper, but just

scattered and out there a little, aloof a little. I don't know if

it was the chips or what. When should I go to add more foods and

spices/herbs?

If the behaviour after the chip doesn't improve to where it was

Friday (pre-tortilla chip) you may want to redo the intro for a day

or two to " clean " him out.

<<Sorry for so many additional questions. My whole family always

fits in between the lines on the page.>>

No problem. These are common questions and concerns.

Sheila, SCD Feb. 2001, UC 23 yrs, PCOD 22yrs

mom of and

[Guest guest]

I don't have the BTVC book yet. It may take a week longer to get here, so I

don't have the " basic muffin " recipe. Also, my son is allergic to almondsand

peanuts but cashews are okay. Not sure about walnuts, pecans or any other nuts

as those 3 were all they tested for. Should I try the recipe when I get it with

pecan or walnut flour or another nut flour?

The constipation is definitely continuing. Should I give him more electrolyte

drink or is that a bad idea?

Bonita

son, SCD 6 days

ADHD, OCD, Aspie

food allergies

highly sal sensitive

Re: Trying to get to phase 1 without ruining everything

Hi Bonita,

<< I've looked at the link you gave for initial symptoms of die off,

but I still can't tell what is happening with my son. His eyes were

blacker than normal for a couple of days. None of those symptoms

of initial die off seem to fit him at all. Bm's sure would be an

easier cut and dry way to tell. Behavior (hyperactivity, spacey,

repetitive actions, out of control, etc) is the ONLY way I have been

able to tell but I know sometimes you don't see improvement in

behaviors for a little while. So, how do I know when to introduce

another food? The zucchini and spinach are higher in salicylates so

I can't introduce those right now either. Or should I take the

chance even though he is highly sensitive to sal.'s?>>

Although some of the problem may be salicylates it may also be die

off. What foods is he eating?

> If his behavior worsens, do I back up on the foods some? Do I go

ahead when I get through the green beans safely and mayo, should I

start on stage 2 foods or wait until he tolerates the high sal.

stage 1 foods?

Asparagus, mushrooms, frozen spinach are relatively low in

salicylates. If his bowels aren't too bad you may want to try these

foods. Are you able to use any of the supplements that help some

people with salicylate issues.?

<< He started Wednesday afternoon on SCD, so I guess we will be

starting day 5 tonight. He was constipated during the intro. I

think it was from all the protein. I have upped his water intake

considerably. He can't have apples right now due to salicylates.>>

Die off can trigger constipation or diarrhea for some people so it

may not have been the protein or only a contributing factor to the

constipation.

Some of the behaviour may be from the constipation. It has been

reported by others.

Most of the phenolic compounds are located near the peel so some

find that double peelin a fruit or veggie (like zucchini) makes them

easiert to tolerate.

<< He did finally have a bm yesterday, in fact 2 and they were very

hard. He was extremely hyper until Friday when he seemed to start

calming down.>>

Then Saturday morning he snuck some tortilla chips - I think only

3, but chips are chips. His behavior disintegrated yesterday some

and today seems a little worse. Today he has some focus, but not a

lot and mostly he is in constant motion (like the autistic

behaviors, repetitive and such). He's really not hyper, but just

scattered and out there a little, aloof a little. I don't know if

it was the chips or what. When should I go to add more foods and

spices/herbs?

If the behaviour after the chip doesn't improve to where it was

Friday (pre-tortilla chip) you may want to redo the intro for a day

or two to " clean " him out.

<<Sorry for so many additional questions. My whole family always

fits in between the lines on the page.>>

No problem. These are common questions and concerns.

Sheila, SCD Feb. 2001, UC 23 yrs, PCOD 22yrs

mom of and

[Guest guest]

Give him more electrolite drink if that works for his constepation. I would try

either pecan or walnut flour when you give him the muffins.

Meleah

Re: Trying to get to phase 1 without ruining everything

Hi Bonita,

<< I've looked at the link you gave for initial symptoms of die off,

but I still can't tell what is happening with my son. His eyes were

blacker than normal for a couple of days. None of those symptoms

of initial die off seem to fit him at all. Bm's sure would be an

easier cut and dry way to tell. Behavior (hyperactivity, spacey,

repetitive actions, out of control, etc) is the ONLY way I have been

able to tell but I know sometimes you don't see improvement in

behaviors for a little while. So, how do I know when to introduce

another food? The zucchini and spinach are higher in salicylates so

I can't introduce those right now either. Or should I take the

chance even though he is highly sensitive to sal.'s?>>

Although some of the problem may be salicylates it may also be die

off. What foods is he eating?

> If his behavior worsens, do I back up on the foods some? Do I go

ahead when I get through the green beans safely and mayo, should I

start on stage 2 foods or wait until he tolerates the high sal.

stage 1 foods?

Asparagus, mushrooms, frozen spinach are relatively low in

salicylates. If his bowels aren't too bad you may want to try these

foods. Are you able to use any of the supplements that help some

people with salicylate issues.?

<< He started Wednesday afternoon on SCD, so I guess we will be

starting day 5 tonight. He was constipated during the intro. I

think it was from all the protein. I have upped his water intake

considerably. He can't have apples right now due to salicylates.>>

Die off can trigger constipation or diarrhea for some people so it

may not have been the protein or only a contributing factor to the

constipation.

Some of the behaviour may be from the constipation. It has been

reported by others.

Most of the phenolic compounds are located near the peel so some

find that double peelin a fruit or veggie (like zucchini) makes them

easiert to tolerate.

<< He did finally have a bm yesterday, in fact 2 and they were very

hard. He was extremely hyper until Friday when he seemed to start

calming down.>>

Then Saturday morning he snuck some tortilla chips - I think only

3, but chips are chips. His behavior disintegrated yesterday some

and today seems a little worse. Today he has some focus, but not a

lot and mostly he is in constant motion (like the autistic

behaviors, repetitive and such). He's really not hyper, but just

scattered and out there a little, aloof a little. I don't know if

it was the chips or what. When should I go to add more foods and

spices/herbs?

If the behaviour after the chip doesn't improve to where it was

Friday (pre-tortilla chip) you may want to redo the intro for a day

or two to " clean " him out.

<<Sorry for so many additional questions. My whole family always

fits in between the lines on the page.>>

No problem. These are common questions and concerns.

Sheila, SCD Feb. 2001, UC 23 yrs, PCOD 22yrs

mom of and

[Guest guest]

Hi Bonita,

<<He hasn't gotten really out of intro much yet. He eats:

> boiled chicken

> pureed chicken and carrots together (he really likes this)

> boiled carrots

> boiled eggs

> eggs over easy

> I did give him green beans one also.

>

> He started making big behavioral improvements and his black eyes

were getting better Friday. Then he got the chips Sat morning. All

day Sat he started getting worse again. By Sunday evening his eyes

were really black again and he was to the point of being almost out

of control. We did have to give him some of his prescription

Clonidine to settle him. I have been doing the Epsom salts baths,

he's likes that too. I can't really tell if it is doing good or

not, but keep doing it as he likes it and the toxins need to come

out. I can buy some of the activated charcoal. Do I get that at a

local health food store or will I have to order it?>>

Most are able to get it from their local drugstore/pharmacy. Health

food stores may carry it.

<<Is there certain criteria for it or certain brands?>>

No sucrose, illegal gums etc..

<< Could this be continual die off after this many days?>>

Yes, especially since he had the tortilla chips. Often the weakest

microbes will die first and the hardier microbes are lft to die off

later. Since they fed on the tortilla chips they'll be hanging

around a little longer.

<< Should I go on to introduce more foods regardless? >>

Once his behaviours and symptoms (black eyes) either clear up or

start to improve then you could try new foods. If you introduce

foods now you won't know if it is the chip reaction or intolerance

of the new food.

<<Oh, I did make some of the electrolyte drink Friday afternoon. I

made a quart and between Friday night and Sat morning, he drank all

of it (and really like it too). Later Sat morning and late Sat

night he had bm's and it was very hard.>>

Others have reported that the elec. mix can help with constipation.

It is good hois bowels are moving again.

<< I haven't tried any of the supplements for phenols. I have been

sorting out his issues and haven't gotten a chance to try them. The

only one I know of is No Phenol and I hear the reaction can be

pretty bad for a couple of weeks till they get used to it.>>

More die off.

<< I hadn't had any luck with any of the vitamin or fish oil supp's

so I hadn't tried the phenol yet. It seemed he reacted to

everything. The sal issue with him is bad. Should I go ahead and

try the No Phenol or another brand to help out?>>

Others have found that it or other supplements help. Maybe other

parents will tell you what helped them. (you may want to ask in a

seperate post)

<<He seems to be getting constipated again too. I have been really

pushing water, but it is still happening. I can give him pearsauce,

but he likes it with allspice in it. That would be 2 new things at

once, but that might help with the constipation?>>

Will he continue the electrolyte mix - it may help again. You could

go ahead with the pearsauce if he just can't get things moving.

<<So, on the zucchini, you should peel it and take the seeds out

too? Then it should be boiled till it's mushy or at this stage,

could it be just peeled, seeded, diced and cook till soft? >>

With the salicylate issue try double peeling zucchini. Small

zucchini with immature seeds don't need to be deseeded (about 1 foot

long or smaller and about 1.5 inches or less in diameter - you want

to avoid the mature hard seeds in the large zucchini.) Yes, it

should be cooked until soft and mushy for him now.

<< He really likes pureed foods (never wanted to go to anything else

since he was a baby), so I could boil some frozen spinach and/or

zucchini and puree it in the carrots and chicken.>>

Yes try one new food at a time.

<< I wouldn't begin to know what to do with Asparagus. I'm willing

to try it if you or anyone else has a suggestion of how to cook it.>>

Crack off the hard bottoms, cook until soft. You can then puree it

with the rest if you like.

<<> So, I can introduce the legal oils slowly now also?

> And the spices?>>

Yes and yes.

<< So, all the foods, spices and oils have to be introduced all one

at a time and that is a little one day and increasing it another day

till I know it's okay and on to the next one. Is that correct?

>>Seems like a long arduous task. Nothing new to me though. >>

Yes, that's correct. Slow going at the beginning but speeds up as

healing takes place.

>

> I usually cooked chicken and especially fish with lime or lemon

juice. Can that be introduced now also. I see raw lemon and limes

in the later stage. Does that mean you can't use it for marinades

in cooking meats/fish/poultry?>>

No, you could try the marinade, just try one new thing at at time.

If you want to try lemon/lime juice earlier just juice them, remove

pulp, pith and peel and dilute it.

Sheila, SCD Feb. 2001, UC 23 yrs, PCOD 22yrs

mom of and

[Guest guest]

Sheila,

Thanks for your wealth of knowledge and help.

Bonita

Re: Trying to get to phase 1 without ruining everything

Hi Bonita,

<<He hasn't gotten really out of intro much yet. He eats:

> boiled chicken

> pureed chicken and carrots together (he really likes this)

> boiled carrots

> boiled eggs

> eggs over easy

> I did give him green beans one also.

>

> He started making big behavioral improvements and his black eyes

were getting better Friday. Then he got the chips Sat morning. All

day Sat he started getting worse again. By Sunday evening his eyes

were really black again and he was to the point of being almost out

of control. We did have to give him some of his prescription

Clonidine to settle him. I have been doing the Epsom salts baths,

he's likes that too. I can't really tell if it is doing good or

not, but keep doing it as he likes it and the toxins need to come

out. I can buy some of the activated charcoal. Do I get that at a

local health food store or will I have to order it?>>

Most are able to get it from their local drugstore/pharmacy. Health

food stores may carry it.

<<Is there certain criteria for it or certain brands?>>

No sucrose, illegal gums etc..

<< Could this be continual die off after this many days?>>

Yes, especially since he had the tortilla chips. Often the weakest

microbes will die first and the hardier microbes are lft to die off

later. Since they fed on the tortilla chips they'll be hanging

around a little longer.

<< Should I go on to introduce more foods regardless? >>

Once his behaviours and symptoms (black eyes) either clear up or

start to improve then you could try new foods. If you introduce

foods now you won't know if it is the chip reaction or intolerance

of the new food.

<<Oh, I did make some of the electrolyte drink Friday afternoon. I

made a quart and between Friday night and Sat morning, he drank all

of it (and really like it too). Later Sat morning and late Sat

night he had bm's and it was very hard.>>

Others have reported that the elec. mix can help with constipation.

It is good hois bowels are moving again.

<< I haven't tried any of the supplements for phenols. I have been

sorting out his issues and haven't gotten a chance to try them. The

only one I know of is No Phenol and I hear the reaction can be

pretty bad for a couple of weeks till they get used to it.>>

More die off.

<< I hadn't had any luck with any of the vitamin or fish oil supp's

so I hadn't tried the phenol yet. It seemed he reacted to

everything. The sal issue with him is bad. Should I go ahead and

try the No Phenol or another brand to help out?>>

Others have found that it or other supplements help. Maybe other

parents will tell you what helped them. (you may want to ask in a

seperate post)

<<He seems to be getting constipated again too. I have been really

pushing water, but it is still happening. I can give him pearsauce,

but he likes it with allspice in it. That would be 2 new things at

once, but that might help with the constipation?>>

Will he continue the electrolyte mix - it may help again. You could

go ahead with the pearsauce if he just can't get things moving.

<<So, on the zucchini, you should peel it and take the seeds out

too? Then it should be boiled till it's mushy or at this stage,

could it be just peeled, seeded, diced and cook till soft? >>

With the salicylate issue try double peeling zucchini. Small

zucchini with immature seeds don't need to be deseeded (about 1 foot

long or smaller and about 1.5 inches or less in diameter - you want

to avoid the mature hard seeds in the large zucchini.) Yes, it

should be cooked until soft and mushy for him now.

<< He really likes pureed foods (never wanted to go to anything else

since he was a baby), so I could boil some frozen spinach and/or

zucchini and puree it in the carrots and chicken.>>

Yes try one new food at a time.

<< I wouldn't begin to know what to do with Asparagus. I'm willing

to try it if you or anyone else has a suggestion of how to cook it.>>

Crack off the hard bottoms, cook until soft. You can then puree it

with the rest if you like.

<<> So, I can introduce the legal oils slowly now also?

> And the spices?>>

Yes and yes.

<< So, all the foods, spices and oils have to be introduced all one

at a time and that is a little one day and increasing it another day

till I know it's okay and on to the next one. Is that correct?

>>Seems like a long arduous task. Nothing new to me though. >>

Yes, that's correct. Slow going at the beginning but speeds up as

healing takes place.

>

> I usually cooked chicken and especially fish with lime or lemon

juice. Can that be introduced now also. I see raw lemon and limes

in the later stage. Does that mean you can't use it for marinades

in cooking meats/fish/poultry?>>

No, you could try the marinade, just try one new thing at at time.

If you want to try lemon/lime juice earlier just juice them, remove

pulp, pith and peel and dilute it.

Sheila, SCD Feb. 2001, UC 23 yrs, PCOD 22yrs

mom of and

[Guest guest]

Hi Bonita,

I believe the recipe at http://www.scdiet.org/2recipes/bread01.html

called " Bread details " is almost identical (except for the vinegar

which is optional) to the recipe in BTVC. I just checked and Elaine

also adds 1/4 C or butter, or yogurt or fruit juice etc...

<< I don't have the BTVC book yet. It may take a week longer to get

here, so I don't have the " basic muffin " recipe. Also, my son is

allergic to almondsand peanuts but cashews are okay. Not sure about

walnuts, pecans or any other nuts as those 3 were all they tested

for. Should I try the recipe when I get it with pecan or walnut

flour or another nut flour?>>

Pecans are a good nut to try if he isn't allergic/sensitive to it.

They are one of the easiet to digest. cashews are more advanced

because they are starchy. However if they are all he can use try a

little to see how he reacts (bowel wise).

<<The constipation is definitely continuing. Should I give him more

electrolyte drink or is that a bad idea?>>

No, this is not a bad idea if it helps with his constipation.

Sheila, SCD Feb. 2001, UC 23 yrs, PCOD 22yrs

mom of and