Re: pancreatic insufficiency/D-Lactic Acidosis

[Guest guest]

So again, I come across a reference to D-Lactic Acidosis. How do I

figure out if this is my son's problem? What are the treatment

options? Should I not be giving him the yogurt?

K in Dayton, Ohio

Hashimoto's Thyroiditis, Fibro, CFS, yeast/candida, copper overload,

adrenal fatigue(mostly healed!!!)

Kids: son Rhowan 5 yrs old, chronic diarrhea/loose stools,

yeast/candida, ADHD, salicylate intolerance; daughter Willow 6.5 yrs

old, mild GI issues, salicylate intolerance

Started SCD June 2006, went slightly off for awhile in Nov 2006, back

on strict SCD starting May 2007. (Just redid intro the last week of

June 2007 and are struggling to find tolerated foods)

>

> The livers failure to detoxify

> *

http://www.breakingtheviciouscycle.info/knowledge_base/kb/liver_failing_to-detox\

ify.htm

> PANCREASE

> The livers failure to detoxify. There are " two way streets " from gut

to liver to bile to pancrease via ducts. Although in university we are

taught that they are one way streets, ...

>

> Esther Aproposof@... SON in New York, I think. May have to

look in the phone book for her to help... Her e-mail address keeps

coming back. Put in Subject: SCDiet and Pancrease help.

> Because she does not have you address in her contact list.

> Tell her that Grammy Gay B. hebegb70@... sent you to her.

>

>

>

>

>

> ---------------------------------

> Bored stiff? Loosen up...

> Download and play hundreds of games for free on Yahoo! Games.

>

>

[Guest guest]

--- Hi

I think there is a blood test for D-Lactic Acid Acidosis, and there

is also a hydrogen breath test for small bowel bacterial overgrowth.

Jazzie had this done recently, but it was negative. However, she had

a stomach bug for a week prior to testing, and could hardly tolerate

any feed (she is tube fed). I am convinced this is why the test was

negative, but I belive her GI just thinks I am neurotic!! I must add

that for 2 weeks after this, Jazzie ate all sorts of food and did not

react to anything. I have read a study where autistic children were

given vancomycin and their behaviours improved, but returned 2 weeks

after treatment stopped, so it seems that when Jazzie was ill, the

gut bugs were killed off. I wish her GI would repeat the breath

test, but no luck. I hope things improve for you soon .

Regards Glynis mam to Jasmine 7 yrs

Diagnosed with Kauki Syndrome

NG tube fed.

In pecanbread , " Kuykendall "

wrote:

>

> So again, I come across a reference to D-Lactic Acidosis. How do I

> figure out if this is my son's problem? What are the treatment

> options? Should I not be giving him the yogurt?

>

> K in Dayton, Ohio

> Hashimoto's Thyroiditis, Fibro, CFS, yeast/candida, copper overload,

> adrenal fatigue(mostly healed!!!)

> Kids: son Rhowan 5 yrs old, chronic diarrhea/loose stools,

> yeast/candida, ADHD, salicylate intolerance; daughter Willow 6.5 yrs

> old, mild GI issues, salicylate intolerance

> Started SCD June 2006, went slightly off for awhile in Nov 2006,

back

> on strict SCD starting May 2007. (Just redid intro the last week of

> June 2007 and are struggling to find tolerated foods)

>

>

>

>

> >

> > The livers failure to detoxify

> > *

>

http://www.breakingtheviciouscycle.info/knowledge_base/kb/liver_failin

g_to-detoxify.htm

> > PANCREASE

> > The livers failure to detoxify. There are " two way streets " from

gut

> to liver to bile to pancrease via ducts. Although in university we

are

> taught that they are one way streets, ...

> >

> > Esther Aproposof@ SON in New York, I think. May have to

> look in the phone book for her to help... Her e-mail address keeps

> coming back. Put in Subject: SCDiet and Pancrease help.

> > Because she does not have you address in her contact list.

> > Tell her that Grammy Gay B. hebegb70@ sent you to her.

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > ---------------------------------

> > Bored stiff? Loosen up...

> > Download and play hundreds of games for free on Yahoo! Games.

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

Hi

I apologize for the long post. You had asked " How do I figure out if

this [D-lactic acidosis] is my son's problem? "

Sunseri's son and I both suffer from SBBO, specifically

overgrowth of D-lactate producing bacteria. I am by no means an

authority in this area, but I can share with you our having to live

with the consequences of this affliction for years. The only foods

that we appear to tolerate at this point in time are low carb, " no

starch " veggies (i.e. veggies that are so low in starch, the amount

is considered negligible). If you believe that your child suffers

from this affliction, be on the look out for symptoms of drunkenness

or sleepiness (aka somnolence), as well as the other symptoms

enumerated below in the list entitled " Symptoms of D-Lactic Acidosis "

near the bottom of my response. These symptoms are usually induced

through ingestion of the following:

1) Non low carb foods*

2) Foods that contain D-lactate such as certain cheeses and

other fermented foods.

3) Microbial strains of D-lactic producing bacteria found in

many probiotics, such as L. Acidophilus.

*It is possible that the problems related to carb ingestion, in some

individuals, might be related to total carb content in a given meal

and not to the individual carb content of a given food. In my case,

it appears that I can consume an unlimited amount of low carb, " no

starch " foods, but cannot tolerate other higher carb foods at all.

If you notice an unusual intolerance to carbs in your child, and they

appear to trigger the symptoms associated with D-lactic acidosis, it

is possible your child may be suffering from this affliction.

You also asked " Should I not be giving him the yogurt? "

Strains such as those found in the probiotics found in this product

http://www.giprohealth.com/progurt.html should be okay, since they

largely produce the L- or L+ Lactic isomers instead of the D-Lactic

isomer. Elaine discussed the issue of D-lactic acid production from

certain probiotic strains in the following link:

http://www.breakingtheviciouscycle.info/knowledge_base/kb/d_lactic_aci

d.htm At the end of the post, she was going to research the L.

Acidophilus strain, but I was unable to ascertain whether she posted

any follow-through research. Anyway, L. Acidophilus does produce the

D-lactic isomer and is contraindicated for those who suffer from D-

lactic overproduction, because we typically are suffering from L.

Acidophilus overgrowth. L. Casei, which is found in the progurt

product from GIPROHEALTH, is a L-lactic producer and Elaine approved

its used for those with ASD.

Finally, you ask " What are the treatment options? " Avoidance of the

foods and microbial strains that induce the symptoms, as listed

above. Antibiotics that specifically target the bacteria, such as

Vancomycin, are another option if the case is severe enough to

warrant their use. However, it is possible that the antibiotic

treatment options might be prolonged and numerous. There are some

therapy options which involve the ingestion of Lactobacillus GG

microbes, a L-Lactic isomer producing strain. The theory is that

this strain should competitively crowd out some of the L. Acidophilus

microbes, thus resolving the problem of overgrowth. This therapy

appears to be in the research stages at this point in time, and I

haven't come across any long term follow-up studies. Since there was

one case study that involved a child who suffered from D-lactic

acidosis and who also had an overgrowth of Lactobacillus GG, I'm

hesitant to use this form of microbial replacement therapy.

I, myself, am going to try a low carb version of the SCD for a few

months to see if I can avoid antibiotic therapy. Interestingly, it

turns out that I recovered from this affliction back in 1991 without

implementing an elimination diet! Instead, I started a program of

endurance bicycle riding, and I recovered from the affliction after

one year. I always noted I felt better after long periods of

physical activity. In terms of recovery this time around, after one

month on a low carb version of the SCD, I am recovering at a much,

much faster clip. Probably 10 times faster!

The following list was extracted from:

http://patients.uptodate.com/image.asp?file=neph_pix/neurolog.htm

Symptoms of D-Lactic Acidosis

Neurologic manifestation Percent

Altered mental status* 100

Dysarthria (slurred speech) 65

Ataxia 45

Gait disturbance 34

Weakness 21

Impaired motor coordination 21

Hostile, aggressive, abusive behavior 17

Inability to concentrate 14

Nystagmus 14

Hallucinations 10

Delirium, euphoria 10

Paranoid ideation 7

Irritability 3

Excessive hunger 3

Headache 3

Partial ptosis 3

Asterixis 3

Blurred vision 3

* * From mild drowsiness to coma

Adapted from Uribarri, J, Oh, MS, Carroll, HJ. Medicine 1998; 77:73.

Asterixis is a flapping tremor of the hand that is an early sign of

hepatic encephalopathy (damage to brain cells due to toxins not

cleared from the blood by the liver). The exact cause of this

disorder is not known but it is thought to be related to by abnormal

ammonia metabolism.

Asterixis is the medical word to describe flapping tremor (sometimes

said to resemble a " bird flapping its wings " ). Definitions from:

http://encyclopedia.thefreedictionary.com/asterixis

Nystagmus is rapid involuntary rhythmic eye movement, with the eyes

moving quickly in one direction (quick phase), and then slowly in the

other (slow phase). In medicine, the clinical importance of nystagmus

is that it indicates that the patient's spatial sensory system

perceives rotation and is rotating the eyes to adjust. Thus it

depends on the coordination of activities between two major

physiological systems: the vision and the vestibular apparatus (which

controls posture and balance). This may be physiological (or normal)

or pathological.

Definition from:

http://encyclopedia.thefreedictionary.com/nystagmus

Ptosis = Abnormal lowering or drooping of an organ or a part,

especially a drooping of the upper eyelid caused by muscle weakness

or paralysis. Definition from:

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/ptosis

- Sally G.

SCD since March 2003. Celiac Disease, SBBO, Fat Malabsorption

problems

[Guest guest]

Thank you so much for such a long and informative post! It was very

helpful. My son doesn't seem sluggish or drowsy after eating, which

was stated as one of the main symptoms, so perhaps this isn't my son's

issues with carbs. He seems to get hyper, sometimes irritable, and

even impulsive after eating carbs. Perhaps children's reactions are

different and instead of sluggish they get hyper? Or perhaps that just

isn't my son's issue. I think maybe we will try switching to the

progurt yogurt culture for a while and see if that helps any. We are

already very low carb these days due to his intolerance.

K in Dayton, Ohio

Hashimoto's Thyroiditis, Fibro, CFS, yeast/candida, copper overload,

adrenal fatigue(mostly healed!!!)

Kids: son Rhowan 5 yrs old, chronic diarrhea/loose stools,

yeast/candida, ADHD, salicylate intolerance; daughter Willow 6.5 yrs

old, mild GI issues, salicylate intolerance

Started SCD June 2006, went slightly off for awhile in Nov 2006, back

on strict SCD starting May 2007. (Just redid intro the last week of

June 2007 and are struggling to find tolerated foods)

>

> Hi

>

> I apologize for the long post. You had asked " How do I figure out if

> this [D-lactic acidosis] is my son's problem? "

> Sunseri's son and I both suffer from SBBO, specifically

> overgrowth of D-lactate producing bacteria. I am by no means an

> authority in this area, but I can share with you our having to live

> with the consequences of this affliction for years. The only foods

> that we appear to tolerate at this point in time are low carb, " no

> starch " veggies (i.e. veggies that are so low in starch, the amount

> is considered negligible). If you believe that your child suffers

> from this affliction, be on the look out for symptoms of drunkenness

> or sleepiness (aka somnolence), as well as the other symptoms

> enumerated below in the list entitled " Symptoms of D-Lactic Acidosis "

> near the bottom of my response. These symptoms are usually induced

> through ingestion of the following:

>

> 1) Non low carb foods*

> 2) Foods that contain D-lactate such as certain cheeses and

> other fermented foods.

> 3) Microbial strains of D-lactic producing bacteria found in

> many probiotics, such as L. Acidophilus.

>

> *It is possible that the problems related to carb ingestion, in some

> individuals, might be related to total carb content in a given meal

> and not to the individual carb content of a given food. In my case,

> it appears that I can consume an unlimited amount of low carb, " no

> starch " foods, but cannot tolerate other higher carb foods at all.

> If you notice an unusual intolerance to carbs in your child, and they

> appear to trigger the symptoms associated with D-lactic acidosis, it

> is possible your child may be suffering from this affliction.

>

> You also asked " Should I not be giving him the yogurt? "

> Strains such as those found in the probiotics found in this product

> http://www.giprohealth.com/progurt.html should be okay, since they

> largely produce the L- or L+ Lactic isomers instead of the D-Lactic

> isomer. Elaine discussed the issue of D-lactic acid production from

> certain probiotic strains in the following link:

> http://www.breakingtheviciouscycle.info/knowledge_base/kb/d_lactic_aci

> d.htm At the end of the post, she was going to research the L.

> Acidophilus strain, but I was unable to ascertain whether she posted

> any follow-through research. Anyway, L. Acidophilus does produce the

> D-lactic isomer and is contraindicated for those who suffer from D-

> lactic overproduction, because we typically are suffering from L.

> Acidophilus overgrowth. L. Casei, which is found in the progurt

> product from GIPROHEALTH, is a L-lactic producer and Elaine approved

> its used for those with ASD.

>

> Finally, you ask " What are the treatment options? " Avoidance of the

> foods and microbial strains that induce the symptoms, as listed

> above. Antibiotics that specifically target the bacteria, such as

> Vancomycin, are another option if the case is severe enough to

> warrant their use. However, it is possible that the antibiotic

> treatment options might be prolonged and numerous. There are some

> therapy options which involve the ingestion of Lactobacillus GG

> microbes, a L-Lactic isomer producing strain. The theory is that

> this strain should competitively crowd out some of the L. Acidophilus

> microbes, thus resolving the problem of overgrowth. This therapy

> appears to be in the research stages at this point in time, and I

> haven't come across any long term follow-up studies. Since there was

> one case study that involved a child who suffered from D-lactic

> acidosis and who also had an overgrowth of Lactobacillus GG, I'm

> hesitant to use this form of microbial replacement therapy.

>

> I, myself, am going to try a low carb version of the SCD for a few

> months to see if I can avoid antibiotic therapy. Interestingly, it

> turns out that I recovered from this affliction back in 1991 without

> implementing an elimination diet! Instead, I started a program of

> endurance bicycle riding, and I recovered from the affliction after

> one year. I always noted I felt better after long periods of

> physical activity. In terms of recovery this time around, after one

> month on a low carb version of the SCD, I am recovering at a much,

> much faster clip. Probably 10 times faster!

>

> The following list was extracted from:

> http://patients.uptodate.com/image.asp?file=neph_pix/neurolog.htm

>

> Symptoms of D-Lactic Acidosis

>

> Neurologic manifestation Percent

> Altered mental status* 100

> Dysarthria (slurred speech) 65

> Ataxia 45

> Gait disturbance 34

> Weakness 21

> Impaired motor coordination 21

> Hostile, aggressive, abusive behavior 17

> Inability to concentrate 14

> Nystagmus 14

> Hallucinations 10

> Delirium, euphoria 10

> Paranoid ideation 7

> Irritability 3

> Excessive hunger 3

> Headache 3

> Partial ptosis 3

> Asterixis 3

> Blurred vision 3

> * * From mild drowsiness to coma

> Adapted from Uribarri, J, Oh, MS, Carroll, HJ. Medicine 1998; 77:73.

>

> Asterixis is a flapping tremor of the hand that is an early sign of

> hepatic encephalopathy (damage to brain cells due to toxins not

> cleared from the blood by the liver). The exact cause of this

> disorder is not known but it is thought to be related to by abnormal

> ammonia metabolism.

> Asterixis is the medical word to describe flapping tremor (sometimes

> said to resemble a " bird flapping its wings " ). Definitions from:

> http://encyclopedia.thefreedictionary.com/asterixis

>

> Nystagmus is rapid involuntary rhythmic eye movement, with the eyes

> moving quickly in one direction (quick phase), and then slowly in the

> other (slow phase). In medicine, the clinical importance of nystagmus

> is that it indicates that the patient's spatial sensory system

> perceives rotation and is rotating the eyes to adjust. Thus it

> depends on the coordination of activities between two major

> physiological systems: the vision and the vestibular apparatus (which

> controls posture and balance). This may be physiological (or normal)

> or pathological.

> Definition from:

> http://encyclopedia.thefreedictionary.com/nystagmus

>

> Ptosis = Abnormal lowering or drooping of an organ or a part,

> especially a drooping of the upper eyelid caused by muscle weakness

> or paralysis. Definition from:

> http://www.thefreedictionary.com/ptosis

>

> - Sally G.

> SCD since March 2003. Celiac Disease, SBBO, Fat Malabsorption

> problems

>

[Guest guest]

Are there any tests that can detect if you have the problem with D-Lactic

Acidosis. Would it show up on a stool sample? Do you give the

Saccharomyces Boulardii or any other probiotic? I would love to

pick your brain more about this condition.

Pam

mom to Ean ASD

SCD 1 year

************************************** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at

http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour

[Guest guest]

A stool sample would be used to detect the bacterial overgrowth (or a breath

test, but stool might be good to detect other problems as well) & a blood draw

detects the D-LA itself. It must be done while the person is having symptoms

and it may take more than 1 draw to make the diagnosis.

SB is really helping my son's gut right now.

-

Pieterpamplus2@... wrote:

Are there any tests that can detect if you have the problem with

D-Lactic

Acidosis. Would it show up on a stool sample? Do you give the

Saccharomyces Boulardii or any other probiotic? I would love to

pick your brain more about this condition.

Pam

mom to Ean ASD

SCD 1 year

************************************** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at

http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour