Guest guest Posted July 19, 2007 Report Share Posted July 19, 2007 Hello, I've just joined this list after a whirlwind of discoveries (autism-spectrum symptoms in my 2 boys and myself, likely mercury toxicity and nutritional deficiencies, yeast overgrowth, etc). My research's led me to both Andy Cutler and Elaine Gottschall, but I'm so overwhelmed and don't know where to begin. About 2 weeks ago, I cut out all illegal food and started making kefir cheese & Greek yogurt (both cultured 24 hours and drained) and have been trying out some of the recipes. I feel like we really need to do this right and start with the intro diet. However, I don't think I can get my children to eat any of the meats or broths. Until just a few months ago, we rarely ate even eggs & milk. In fact, we spent 2 years eating a mostly raw vegan diet (mainly fruit). For a while I felt GREAT, and though I didn't understand my boys' symptoms at the time to be autism-related, they were so much better (probably from cutting out grains)! But then, we must have develop poor digestion and nutritional deficiencies because things have gotten much worse. Anyway, my point is, the only thing I can likely get them to eat on the intro are the eggs (and my 10 year old is mad at me for making him eat them--says he wants to go back to being a raw foodist). Given that we went without them for so long, I'm wondering if there's risk that we don't even tolerate eggs well. Is it safe to eat eggs for 5 days in a row? I've read on a mercury chelation listserve, that eggs can make things worse for some people--I'm craving them now, but don't know that I can trust this craving as a healthy thing. Also, I'm wondering if it's best to begin with the diet or with chelation. I have so much to learn and have very little internet access for research. It's all so overwhelming. I'd greatly appreciate any advice. Thanks, Kay Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 19, 2007 Report Share Posted July 19, 2007 It is best to begin iwth the diet because you need to heal the gut before you begin chelating. A good DAN(defeat autism now) physician will not chelate a child without making sure that their gut has begun its healing journey first. You are asking for trouble to chelate with a lot of gut damage. Meleah Just Joined the List Hello, I've just joined this list after a whirlwind of discoveries (autism-spectrum symptoms in my 2 boys and myself, likely mercury toxicity and nutritional deficiencies, yeast overgrowth, etc). My research's led me to both Andy Cutler and Elaine Gottschall, but I'm so overwhelmed and don't know where to begin. About 2 weeks ago, I cut out all illegal food and started making kefir cheese & Greek yogurt (both cultured 24 hours and drained) and have been trying out some of the recipes. I feel like we really need to do this right and start with the intro diet. However, I don't think I can get my children to eat any of the meats or broths. Until just a few months ago, we rarely ate even eggs & milk. In fact, we spent 2 years eating a mostly raw vegan diet (mainly fruit). For a while I felt GREAT, and though I didn't understand my boys' symptoms at the time to be autism-related, they were so much better (probably from cutting out grains)! But then, we must have develop poor digestion and nutritional deficiencies because things have gotten much worse. Anyway, my point is, the only thing I can likely get them to eat on the intro are the eggs (and my 10 year old is mad at me for making him eat them--says he wants to go back to being a raw foodist). Given that we went without them for so long, I'm wondering if there's risk that we don't even tolerate eggs well. Is it safe to eat eggs for 5 days in a row? I've read on a mercury chelation listserve, that eggs can make things worse for some people--I'm craving them now, but don't know that I can trust this craving as a healthy thing. Also, I'm wondering if it's best to begin with the diet or with chelation. I have so much to learn and have very little internet access for research. It's all so overwhelming. I'd greatly appreciate any advice. Thanks, Kay Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 19, 2007 Report Share Posted July 19, 2007 Welcome to the group Kay, <<About 2 weeks ago, I > cut out all illegal food and started making kefir cheese & Greek > yogurt (both cultured 24 hours and drained)>> Kefir is not a good idea for those just starting the diet. Elaine recommended to wait on adding in Kefir until well healed with the diet. <<we don't even tolerate eggs well. Is it safe to eat eggs for 5 days in> a row?>> I eat eggs every day. As long as you tolerate eggs it should be fine. The intro diet is only done for 2-5 days (5 is the maximum). 5 days for those with severe diarrhea, 2-3 is sufficient for all other conditions. I was unable to tolerate regular eggs, but when I tried free range chicken eggs not only did I tolerate them but them seemd to actually firm up the bowels. I felt much better after eating them. Sheila, SCD Feb. 2001, UC 23yrs, PCOD 22yrs mom of and Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 19, 2007 Report Share Posted July 19, 2007 Thank you Robin and Sheila, I guess we'll be focusing on eggs for a while. I no longer live in the US and haven't been able to find a DAN doctor, so I may have to figure all this out on my own. The boys will be crushed to have to cut out the kefir--they love it! Since starting it a few months back, they've gone through a huge growth spurt and have finally put on some muscle (I no longer see their ribs and other bones poking through). I thought by culturing it for 24 hours and draining it, it would be okay. Well, is there any reason why the Greek yogurt won't do? It doesn't contain acidophilus--should I try to find some to add to it? This diet is going to be a hard sell to my husband who's really had it with all the things we've tried. He says he has " diet fatigue " , and thinks the food-obsessed boys would be better off being free to eat " normal " food and that all this control over their diet is messing them up psychologically. It doesn't help that his Mother is a nurse and thinks their only problem is my obsession over their diet. It's frustrating--he just doesn't see the food-mood-stimming connection, when it seems so clear to me. At least my oldest has recently asked him not to tempt him with muffins after their soccer game (of course he gives in then doesn't feel great). Thanks again, I look forward to making some real progress. Kay from Down Under > > Welcome to the group Kay, > > <<About 2 weeks ago, I > > cut out all illegal food and started making kefir cheese & Greek > > yogurt (both cultured 24 hours and drained)>> > > Kefir is not a good idea for those just starting the diet. Elaine > recommended to wait on adding in Kefir until well healed with the > diet. > > > <<we don't even tolerate eggs well. Is it safe to eat eggs for 5 days > in> a row?>> > > I eat eggs every day. As long as you tolerate eggs it should be > fine. The intro diet is only done for 2-5 days (5 is the maximum). 5 > days for those with severe diarrhea, 2-3 is sufficient for all other > conditions. > > I was unable to tolerate regular eggs, but when I tried free range > chicken eggs not only did I tolerate them but them seemd to actually > firm up the bowels. I felt much better after eating them. > > Sheila, SCD Feb. 2001, UC 23yrs, PCOD 22yrs > mom of and > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 20, 2007 Report Share Posted July 20, 2007 The camps go back and forth between mercury as the sole source of autism (Cutler, Buttar & Klinghardt) and autism as a multi-factoral illness (pretty much everybody else). The facts support the latter and oral DMSA (Cuttler) is a poor chelator (recent conslusion of a university study), so I would get started on SCD and when diet is in place as the foundation, then you can look into all that stuff further. I wouldn't obsess over the egg count. Give them a try and adjust them as necessary. I don't understand the chelation/problem with eggs. Eggs are high sulfur just like chelators -- why are they contra-indicated? Regardless, you always improve the gut prior to chelation. The reason the kids can't stomach the thought of meat is a raw vegan diet deprives the body of zinc & zinc deficiency causes meat aversion. You may need to supplement zinc and go easy on the (legal) dairy as dairy raises the body's copper level which in-turn lowers zinc further. I also recommend simmering broths on the stovetop for days on end (just freeze it), as the sense of smell may eventually lead to an appreciate of the meat flavor. You might also try an appropriate enzyme to help digest the meat as the stomach has probably stopped producing the necessary ones. - Faith wrote: Hello, I've just joined this list after a whirlwind of discoveries (autism-spectrum symptoms in my 2 boys and myself, likely mercury toxicity and nutritional deficiencies, yeast overgrowth, etc). My research's led me to both Andy Cutler and Elaine Gottschall, but I'm so overwhelmed and don't know where to begin. About 2 weeks ago, I cut out all illegal food and started making kefir cheese & Greek yogurt (both cultured 24 hours and drained) and have been trying out some of the recipes. I feel like we really need to do this right and start with the intro diet. However, I don't think I can get my children to eat any of the meats or broths. Until just a few months ago, we rarely ate even eggs & milk. In fact, we spent 2 years eating a mostly raw vegan diet (mainly fruit). For a while I felt GREAT, and though I didn't understand my boys' symptoms at the time to be autism-related, they were so much better (probably from cutting out grains)! But then, we must have develop poor digestion and nutritional deficiencies because things have gotten much worse. Anyway, my point is, the only thing I can likely get them to eat on the intro are the eggs (and my 10 year old is mad at me for making him eat them--says he wants to go back to being a raw foodist). Given that we went without them for so long, I'm wondering if there's risk that we don't even tolerate eggs well. Is it safe to eat eggs for 5 days in a row? I've read on a mercury chelation listserve, that eggs can make things worse for some people--I'm craving them now, but don't know that I can trust this craving as a healthy thing. Also, I'm wondering if it's best to begin with the diet or with chelation. I have so much to learn and have very little internet access for research. It's all so overwhelming. I'd greatly appreciate any advice. Thanks, Kay --------------------------------- Be a better Heartthrob. Get better relationship answers from someone who knows. Yahoo! Answers - Check it out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 23, 2007 Report Share Posted July 23, 2007 Hi Faith, <<Well, is there any reason why the Greek yogurt won't do? It doesn't > contain acidophilus--should I try to find some to add to it?>> If your homemade greek yogurt contains Lactobacillus bulgaricus and Streptococcus thermophilus and you ferment/incubate it for 24 hours according to the directions in BTVC (also on the pecanbread website) it will be fine. If using goat milk you should only heat the milk to 185°F/80°C Sheila, SCD Feb. 2001, UC 23 yrs, PCOD 22yrs mom of and Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 23, 2007 Report Share Posted July 23, 2007 & Sheila, thanks for your advice. I made my first broth today (turkey), but my boys were disgusted with the taste of meat (though they only had a sip of the straight broth). I'll get the zinc as recommended. Maybe it'll help. In the meantime, I'll keep making it (I found the taste really satisfying). What type of enzymes are recommended to help us digest the meat? Would ProZymesâ„¢ do this? Wouldn't just the broth by itself do this in time? Could you please answer a few more questions for me? * Does turkey broth have the same anti-inflammatory properties as chicken broth? * Since I don't have access to the recommended goat's milk, is it nearly as good to drain the whey off of the cow's yogurt? * Where can I find some information describing the symptoms of yeast overgrowth and/or yeast die-off? Since our symptoms are not consistent and clear (and no diarrea), I'm not sure I'll know how to tell whether or not a new food is tolerable. Thanks again, Kay Tourettes, Aspergers, Sensory-Integration Disorder SCD-getting ready to begin > Hello, I've just joined this list after a whirlwind of discoveries > (autism-spectrum symptoms in my 2 boys and myself, likely mercury > toxicity and nutritional deficiencies, yeast overgrowth, etc). > > My research's led me to both Andy Cutler and Elaine Gottschall, but > I'm so overwhelmed and don't know where to begin. About 2 weeks ago, I > cut out all illegal food and started making kefir cheese & Greek > yogurt (both cultured 24 hours and drained) and have been trying out > some of the recipes. I feel like we really need to do this right and > start with the intro diet. > > However, I don't think I can get my children to eat any of the meats > or broths. Until just a few months ago, we rarely ate even eggs & > milk. In fact, we spent 2 years eating a mostly raw vegan diet (mainly > fruit). For a while I felt GREAT, and though I didn't understand my > boys' symptoms at the time to be autism-related, they were so much > better (probably from cutting out grains)! > > But then, we must have develop poor digestion and nutritional > deficiencies because things have gotten much worse. > > Anyway, my point is, the only thing I can likely get them to eat on > the intro are the eggs (and my 10 year old is mad at me for making him > eat them--says he wants to go back to being a raw foodist). Given that > we went without them for so long, I'm wondering if there's risk that > we don't even tolerate eggs well. Is it safe to eat eggs for 5 days in > a row? > > I've read on a mercury chelation listserve, that eggs can make things > worse for some people--I'm craving them now, but don't know that I can > trust this craving as a healthy thing. > > Also, I'm wondering if it's best to begin with the diet or with > chelation. I have so much to learn and have very little internet > access for research. It's all so overwhelming. > > I'd greatly appreciate any advice. > Thanks, Kay > > > > > > > --------------------------------- > Be a better Heartthrob. Get better relationship answers from someone who knows. > Yahoo! Answers - Check it out. > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 25, 2007 Report Share Posted July 25, 2007 Hi Kay (sorry about goofing up your name previously- v. long day <<I made my first broth today (turkey), but my boys were disgusted with> the taste of meat (though they only had a sip of the straight broth).>> You could puree the carrots with the broth. That will change the flavour and still provide you with all the great nutrients. <<What type of enzymes are recommended to help us digest the meat?>> You'd need proteases to help digest meat. Do you think you need to use enzymes? Any particular symptoms? <<Wouldn't just the broth by itself do this in time?>> The broth will supply some of the nutrients necessary to heal the body which in turn will lead to better digestion and absorption. <<* Does turkey broth have the same anti-inflammatory properties as > chicken broth?>> turkey broth has some anti - inflammatory properties but they aren't the same as chicken broth. Read curative powers at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chicken_soup <<* Since I don't have access to the recommended goat's milk, is it > nearly as good to drain the whey off of the cow's yogurt?>> Dripping SCD cow yogurt makes it more digestible for some (if that is what you mean by draining off the whey). Where are you located ? There is a goat milk finder at http://www.realmilk.com/where2.html Not all is goat just look for your area. <<* Where can I find some information describing the symptoms of yeast > overgrowth and/or yeast die-off? Since our symptoms are not consistent> and clear (and no diarrea), I'm not sure I'll know how to tell whether> or not a new food is tolerable. >> http://pecanbread.com/new/temporarysymptoms.html http://pecanbread.com/new/yeast.html Sheila, SCD Feb. 2001, UC 23yrs, PCOD 22yrs mom of Em & Dan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 25, 2007 Report Share Posted July 25, 2007 Thanks again Sheila, Yes, I tried the carrot/broth puree -- didn't go over well (they can taste the broth and now know my sneaky trick). So now it's bribery, " You can have the muffin after you've eaten your carrots. " Someone suggested we get enzymes to digest the meat since we've been vegetarian for so long (and hadn't been eating eggs either). We've been eating eggs for the last month with no obvious problem (though I'm chronically constipated--now drinking SCD electrolite drink with no relief yet), and I had a few morsels of turkey with the broth the other day with some temporary stomach discomfort, but not enough to be sure it was the meat. Think I could go ahead without the Protease at first? This is part of the challenge I see in introducing new foods after the intro diet. I'm not sure I'll know what's not being well tolerated since our symptoms were never that closely associated with what we ate. I'd like to begin by introducing cooked bananas (we have access to a lot of them and everyone likes them cooked or raw) and other fruit right away, but I wonder if this is wise since I think it was an overconsumption of fruit, especially bananas, that may have led us to our yeast problems in the first place. I do realize we may need to wait a month or more to eat any fruit raw, but I'm still unclear if cooking it makes it completely safe for yeast for all individuals. I've also read that some people need to hold off on honey, yet we're really anxious to get to the muffins soon. Is this also due to individual problems with honey and yeast? I've read so much lately I'm just getting confused. Does the yeast adapt in some people and change its diet, feeding on the honey? Looking at this link to " Beyond the Intro Diet " http://www.pecanbread.com/new/scdfoods1.html#intro, it seems that we can't have any muffins or nut flours until stage three. Doesn't it usually take months to get to this stage? I also don't see any advice as to when to introduce honey or the yogurt cheese. Without eating meat, we'll need the dairy for nutrients. I saw somewhere to start with 1/8 tsp yogurt, but then what? Double it each day if there are no problems? Sorry for so many questions. I'm also on the ASD spectrum and am feeling really overwhelmed, but want to do this right. Is there someplace where I can download the whole Knowledge Base from Elaine's website? My internet connection is horribly inconsistent and slow and it takes forever to research by having to open a page for each little item. Many thanks!!! Kay, Aspergers, Tourettes, Sensory-Integration Disorder, toxicity (boys and I share symptoms of all of these), SCD-will begin Friday. > > Hi Kay (sorry about goofing up your name previously- v. long day > > <<I made my first broth today (turkey), but my boys were disgusted > with> the taste of meat (though they only had a sip of the straight > broth).>> > > You could puree the carrots with the broth. That will change the > flavour and still provide you with all the great nutrients. > > > <<What type of enzymes are recommended to help us digest the meat?>> > > You'd need proteases to help digest meat. Do you think you need to > use enzymes? Any particular symptoms? > > > <<Wouldn't just the broth by itself do this in time?>> > > The broth will supply some of the nutrients necessary to heal the > body which in turn will lead to better digestion and absorption. > > <<* Does turkey broth have the same anti-inflammatory properties as > > chicken broth?>> > > turkey broth has some anti - inflammatory properties but they aren't > the same as chicken broth. Read curative powers at > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chicken_soup > > > <<* Since I don't have access to the recommended goat's milk, is it > > nearly as good to drain the whey off of the cow's yogurt?>> > > Dripping SCD cow yogurt makes it more digestible for some (if that is > what you mean by draining off the whey). Where are you located ? > There is a goat milk finder at http://www.realmilk.com/where2.html > Not all is goat just look for your area. > > <<* Where can I find some information describing the symptoms of yeast > > overgrowth and/or yeast die-off? Since our symptoms are not > consistent> and clear (and no diarrea), I'm not sure I'll know how to > tell whether> or not a new food is tolerable. >> > > http://pecanbread.com/new/temporarysymptoms.html > http://pecanbread.com/new/yeast.html > > Sheila, SCD Feb. 2001, UC 23yrs, PCOD 22yrs > mom of Em & Dan > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 26, 2007 Report Share Posted July 26, 2007 Hi Kay, <<Someone suggested we get enzymes to digest the meat since we've been > vegetarian for so long (and hadn't been eating eggs either). We've > been eating eggs for the last month with no obvious problem (though > I'm chronically constipated--now drinking SCD electrolite drink with > no relief yet),>> Constipation is fairly common at the beginning of the diet. The body can swing back and forth between D and C during the healing process. For constipation see the Constipation protocol Elaine wrote at: http://www.breakingtheviciouscycle.info/knowledge_base/kb/constipation ..htm http://www.breakingtheviciouscycle.info/knowledge_base/kb/constipation _continued.htm <<and I had a few morsels of turkey with the broth the > other day with some temporary stomach discomfort, but not enough to be sure it was the meat. Think I could go ahead without the Protease at first?>> What are your bowel symptoms: gas, frequency, dry stool, etc. <<I'd like to begin by introducing cooked bananas (we have access to a > lot of them and everyone likes them cooked or raw) and other fruit > right away, but I wonder if this is wise since I think it was an > overconsumption of fruit, especially bananas, that may have led us to our yeast problems in the first place. I do realize we may need to > wait a month or more to eat any fruit raw, but I'm still unclear if > cooking it makes it completely safe for yeast for all individuals.>> Cooking helps with digestibility, but may not make it completely safe for all. The best thing to do is try a little raw, ripe banana and see how bowel symptoms are (any changes) and see if it seems to affect your yeast. When I was unable to tolerate bananas because of yeast it was very obvious within minutes. If you are going to have a reaction it may take longer- especially since you have constipation. <<I've also read that some people need to hold off on honey, yet we're > really anxious to get to the muffins soon. Is this also due to > individual problems with honey and yeast? I've read so much lately I'm> just getting confused.>> I had to stop all honey and after a long time wrestling with yeast I can finally tolerate some occasionally. I make baked goods with cooked pureed vegetables or fruits. If you like it sweeter than you can get it with veg & Fruit you can try reduced honey or add a sweetener like saccharine. You may be fine with honey, you really won't know until you try a little. I do suggest yu look at the constipation protocol first though because if your yeast flares up it may make your constipation worse. <<Does the yeast adapt in some people and change > its diet, feeding on the honey?>> Seems to, but it depends on the types of yeast you have and the severity of your overgrowth, state of your immune system etc.. <<Looking at this link to " Beyond the Intro Diet " > http://www.pecanbread.com/new/scdfoods1.html#intro, it seems that we > can't have any muffins or nut flours until stage three. Doesn't it > usually take months to get to this stage?>> The stages don't correpsond to time they are based on a person rate of healing and what ***types*** of food they are able to digest sucessfully. When I write *type* I mean peeled, cooked fruit is one type and raw fruit is another type. The foods listed are examples. Since you are dealing with constipation let the Const. Protocol guide you in the introduction of foods. If after you read it it is still unclear let me know. <<I also don't see any advice as to when to introduce honey or the yogurt cheese.>> Both are on the intro, that is why they are not mentioned on the BTID chart (stages chart). You can start with a little at the beginning and see if they are tolerated. If you haven't tried the yogurt before this go slow. It is very helpful but can increase die off as bad microbes die - which in your case may increase Constipation. If that happens try epsom salt baths and/or activated charcoal to help get rid of the die off toxins. <<Without eating > meat, we'll need the dairy for nutrients. I saw somewhere to start > with 1/8 tsp yogurt, but then what? Double it each day if there are no> problems?>> Correct. : ) <<Is there someplace where I can download the whole Knowledge Base from Elaine's website? My internet connection is horribly inconsistent and> slow and it takes forever to research by having to open a page for> each little item. Many thanks!!!>> I don't know. Gay? Mimi? Sheila, SCD Feb. 2001, UC 23yrs, PCOD 22yrs mom of Em & Dan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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