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Hello, I've just joined this list after a whirlwind of discoveries

(autism-spectrum symptoms in my 2 boys and myself, likely mercury

toxicity and nutritional deficiencies, yeast overgrowth, etc).

My research's led me to both Andy Cutler and Elaine Gottschall, but

I'm so overwhelmed and don't know where to begin. About 2 weeks ago, I

cut out all illegal food and started making kefir cheese & Greek

yogurt (both cultured 24 hours and drained) and have been trying out

some of the recipes. I feel like we really need to do this right and

start with the intro diet.

However, I don't think I can get my children to eat any of the meats

or broths. Until just a few months ago, we rarely ate even eggs &

milk. In fact, we spent 2 years eating a mostly raw vegan diet (mainly

fruit). For a while I felt GREAT, and though I didn't understand my

boys' symptoms at the time to be autism-related, they were so much

better (probably from cutting out grains)!

But then, we must have develop poor digestion and nutritional

deficiencies because things have gotten much worse.

Anyway, my point is, the only thing I can likely get them to eat on

the intro are the eggs (and my 10 year old is mad at me for making him

eat them--says he wants to go back to being a raw foodist). Given that

we went without them for so long, I'm wondering if there's risk that

we don't even tolerate eggs well. Is it safe to eat eggs for 5 days in

a row?

I've read on a mercury chelation listserve, that eggs can make things

worse for some people--I'm craving them now, but don't know that I can

trust this craving as a healthy thing.

Also, I'm wondering if it's best to begin with the diet or with

chelation. I have so much to learn and have very little internet

access for research. It's all so overwhelming.

I'd greatly appreciate any advice.

Thanks, Kay

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It is best to begin iwth the diet because you need to heal the gut before you

begin chelating. A good DAN(defeat autism now) physician will not chelate a

child without making sure that their gut has begun its healing journey first.

You are asking for trouble to chelate with a lot of gut damage.

Meleah

Just Joined the List

Hello, I've just joined this list after a whirlwind of discoveries

(autism-spectrum symptoms in my 2 boys and myself, likely mercury

toxicity and nutritional deficiencies, yeast overgrowth, etc).

My research's led me to both Andy Cutler and Elaine Gottschall, but

I'm so overwhelmed and don't know where to begin. About 2 weeks ago, I

cut out all illegal food and started making kefir cheese & Greek

yogurt (both cultured 24 hours and drained) and have been trying out

some of the recipes. I feel like we really need to do this right and

start with the intro diet.

However, I don't think I can get my children to eat any of the meats

or broths. Until just a few months ago, we rarely ate even eggs &

milk. In fact, we spent 2 years eating a mostly raw vegan diet (mainly

fruit). For a while I felt GREAT, and though I didn't understand my

boys' symptoms at the time to be autism-related, they were so much

better (probably from cutting out grains)!

But then, we must have develop poor digestion and nutritional

deficiencies because things have gotten much worse.

Anyway, my point is, the only thing I can likely get them to eat on

the intro are the eggs (and my 10 year old is mad at me for making him

eat them--says he wants to go back to being a raw foodist). Given that

we went without them for so long, I'm wondering if there's risk that

we don't even tolerate eggs well. Is it safe to eat eggs for 5 days in

a row?

I've read on a mercury chelation listserve, that eggs can make things

worse for some people--I'm craving them now, but don't know that I can

trust this craving as a healthy thing.

Also, I'm wondering if it's best to begin with the diet or with

chelation. I have so much to learn and have very little internet

access for research. It's all so overwhelming.

I'd greatly appreciate any advice.

Thanks, Kay

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Welcome to the group Kay,

<<About 2 weeks ago, I

> cut out all illegal food and started making kefir cheese & Greek

> yogurt (both cultured 24 hours and drained)>>

Kefir is not a good idea for those just starting the diet. Elaine

recommended to wait on adding in Kefir until well healed with the

diet.

<<we don't even tolerate eggs well. Is it safe to eat eggs for 5 days

in> a row?>>

I eat eggs every day. As long as you tolerate eggs it should be

fine. The intro diet is only done for 2-5 days (5 is the maximum). 5

days for those with severe diarrhea, 2-3 is sufficient for all other

conditions.

I was unable to tolerate regular eggs, but when I tried free range

chicken eggs not only did I tolerate them but them seemd to actually

firm up the bowels. I felt much better after eating them.

Sheila, SCD Feb. 2001, UC 23yrs, PCOD 22yrs

mom of and

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Thank you Robin and Sheila,

I guess we'll be focusing on eggs for a while.

I no longer live in the US and haven't been able to find a DAN doctor,

so I may have to figure all this out on my own. The boys will be

crushed to have to cut out the kefir--they love it! Since starting it

a few months back, they've gone through a huge growth spurt and have

finally put on some muscle (I no longer see their ribs and other bones

poking through). I thought by culturing it for 24 hours and draining

it, it would be okay.

Well, is there any reason why the Greek yogurt won't do? It doesn't

contain acidophilus--should I try to find some to add to it?

This diet is going to be a hard sell to my husband who's really had it

with all the things we've tried. He says he has " diet fatigue " , and

thinks the food-obsessed boys would be better off being free to eat

" normal " food and that all this control over their diet is messing

them up psychologically. It doesn't help that his Mother is a nurse

and thinks their only problem is my obsession over their diet. It's

frustrating--he just doesn't see the food-mood-stimming connection,

when it seems so clear to me. At least my oldest has recently asked

him not to tempt him with muffins after their soccer game (of course

he gives in then doesn't feel great).

Thanks again, I look forward to making some real progress.

Kay from Down Under

>

> Welcome to the group Kay,

>

> <<About 2 weeks ago, I

> > cut out all illegal food and started making kefir cheese & Greek

> > yogurt (both cultured 24 hours and drained)>>

>

> Kefir is not a good idea for those just starting the diet. Elaine

> recommended to wait on adding in Kefir until well healed with the

> diet.

>

>

> <<we don't even tolerate eggs well. Is it safe to eat eggs for 5 days

> in> a row?>>

>

> I eat eggs every day. As long as you tolerate eggs it should be

> fine. The intro diet is only done for 2-5 days (5 is the maximum). 5

> days for those with severe diarrhea, 2-3 is sufficient for all other

> conditions.

>

> I was unable to tolerate regular eggs, but when I tried free range

> chicken eggs not only did I tolerate them but them seemd to actually

> firm up the bowels. I felt much better after eating them.

>

> Sheila, SCD Feb. 2001, UC 23yrs, PCOD 22yrs

> mom of and

>

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The camps go back and forth between mercury as the sole source of autism

(Cutler, Buttar & Klinghardt) and autism as a multi-factoral illness (pretty

much everybody else). The facts support the latter and oral DMSA (Cuttler) is a

poor chelator (recent conslusion of a university study), so I would get started

on SCD and when diet is in place as the foundation, then you can look into all

that stuff further.

I wouldn't obsess over the egg count. Give them a try and adjust them as

necessary. I don't understand the chelation/problem with eggs. Eggs are high

sulfur just like chelators -- why are they contra-indicated? Regardless, you

always improve the gut prior to chelation.

The reason the kids can't stomach the thought of meat is a raw vegan diet

deprives the body of zinc & zinc deficiency causes meat aversion. You may need

to supplement zinc and go easy on the (legal) dairy as dairy raises the body's

copper level which in-turn lowers zinc further. I also recommend simmering

broths on the stovetop for days on end (just freeze it), as the sense of smell

may eventually lead to an appreciate of the meat flavor. You might also try an

appropriate enzyme to help digest the meat as the stomach has probably stopped

producing the necessary ones.

-

Faith wrote:

Hello, I've just joined this list after a whirlwind of discoveries

(autism-spectrum symptoms in my 2 boys and myself, likely mercury

toxicity and nutritional deficiencies, yeast overgrowth, etc).

My research's led me to both Andy Cutler and Elaine Gottschall, but

I'm so overwhelmed and don't know where to begin. About 2 weeks ago, I

cut out all illegal food and started making kefir cheese & Greek

yogurt (both cultured 24 hours and drained) and have been trying out

some of the recipes. I feel like we really need to do this right and

start with the intro diet.

However, I don't think I can get my children to eat any of the meats

or broths. Until just a few months ago, we rarely ate even eggs &

milk. In fact, we spent 2 years eating a mostly raw vegan diet (mainly

fruit). For a while I felt GREAT, and though I didn't understand my

boys' symptoms at the time to be autism-related, they were so much

better (probably from cutting out grains)!

But then, we must have develop poor digestion and nutritional

deficiencies because things have gotten much worse.

Anyway, my point is, the only thing I can likely get them to eat on

the intro are the eggs (and my 10 year old is mad at me for making him

eat them--says he wants to go back to being a raw foodist). Given that

we went without them for so long, I'm wondering if there's risk that

we don't even tolerate eggs well. Is it safe to eat eggs for 5 days in

a row?

I've read on a mercury chelation listserve, that eggs can make things

worse for some people--I'm craving them now, but don't know that I can

trust this craving as a healthy thing.

Also, I'm wondering if it's best to begin with the diet or with

chelation. I have so much to learn and have very little internet

access for research. It's all so overwhelming.

I'd greatly appreciate any advice.

Thanks, Kay

---------------------------------

Be a better Heartthrob. Get better relationship answers from someone who knows.

Yahoo! Answers - Check it out.

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Hi Faith,

<<Well, is there any reason why the Greek yogurt won't do? It doesn't

> contain acidophilus--should I try to find some to add to it?>>

If your homemade greek yogurt contains Lactobacillus bulgaricus and

Streptococcus thermophilus and you ferment/incubate it for 24 hours

according to the directions in BTVC (also on the pecanbread website) it

will be fine. :)

If using goat milk you should only heat the milk to 185°F/80°C

Sheila, SCD Feb. 2001, UC 23 yrs, PCOD 22yrs

mom of and

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& Sheila, thanks for your advice.

I made my first broth today (turkey), but my boys were disgusted with

the taste of meat (though they only had a sip of the straight broth).

I'll get the zinc as recommended. Maybe it'll help. In the meantime,

I'll keep making it (I found the taste really satisfying).

What type of enzymes are recommended to help us digest the meat? Would

ProZymesâ„¢ do this? Wouldn't just the broth by itself do this in time?

Could you please answer a few more questions for me?

* Does turkey broth have the same anti-inflammatory properties as

chicken broth?

* Since I don't have access to the recommended goat's milk, is it

nearly as good to drain the whey off of the cow's yogurt?

* Where can I find some information describing the symptoms of yeast

overgrowth and/or yeast die-off? Since our symptoms are not consistent

and clear (and no diarrea), I'm not sure I'll know how to tell whether

or not a new food is tolerable.

Thanks again,

Kay

Tourettes, Aspergers, Sensory-Integration Disorder

SCD-getting ready to begin

> Hello, I've just joined this list after a whirlwind of

discoveries

> (autism-spectrum symptoms in my 2 boys and myself, likely mercury

> toxicity and nutritional deficiencies, yeast overgrowth, etc).

>

> My research's led me to both Andy Cutler and Elaine Gottschall, but

> I'm so overwhelmed and don't know where to begin. About 2 weeks ago, I

> cut out all illegal food and started making kefir cheese & Greek

> yogurt (both cultured 24 hours and drained) and have been trying out

> some of the recipes. I feel like we really need to do this right and

> start with the intro diet.

>

> However, I don't think I can get my children to eat any of the meats

> or broths. Until just a few months ago, we rarely ate even eggs &

> milk. In fact, we spent 2 years eating a mostly raw vegan diet (mainly

> fruit). For a while I felt GREAT, and though I didn't understand my

> boys' symptoms at the time to be autism-related, they were so much

> better (probably from cutting out grains)!

>

> But then, we must have develop poor digestion and nutritional

> deficiencies because things have gotten much worse.

>

> Anyway, my point is, the only thing I can likely get them to eat on

> the intro are the eggs (and my 10 year old is mad at me for making him

> eat them--says he wants to go back to being a raw foodist). Given that

> we went without them for so long, I'm wondering if there's risk that

> we don't even tolerate eggs well. Is it safe to eat eggs for 5 days in

> a row?

>

> I've read on a mercury chelation listserve, that eggs can make things

> worse for some people--I'm craving them now, but don't know that I can

> trust this craving as a healthy thing.

>

> Also, I'm wondering if it's best to begin with the diet or with

> chelation. I have so much to learn and have very little internet

> access for research. It's all so overwhelming.

>

> I'd greatly appreciate any advice.

> Thanks, Kay

>

>

>

>

>

>

> ---------------------------------

> Be a better Heartthrob. Get better relationship answers from someone

who knows.

> Yahoo! Answers - Check it out.

>

>

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Hi Kay (sorry about goofing up your name previously- v. long day :)

<<I made my first broth today (turkey), but my boys were disgusted

with> the taste of meat (though they only had a sip of the straight

broth).>>

You could puree the carrots with the broth. That will change the

flavour and still provide you with all the great nutrients.

<<What type of enzymes are recommended to help us digest the meat?>>

You'd need proteases to help digest meat. Do you think you need to

use enzymes? Any particular symptoms?

<<Wouldn't just the broth by itself do this in time?>>

The broth will supply some of the nutrients necessary to heal the

body which in turn will lead to better digestion and absorption.

<<* Does turkey broth have the same anti-inflammatory properties as

> chicken broth?>>

turkey broth has some anti - inflammatory properties but they aren't

the same as chicken broth. Read curative powers at

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chicken_soup

<<* Since I don't have access to the recommended goat's milk, is it

> nearly as good to drain the whey off of the cow's yogurt?>>

Dripping SCD cow yogurt makes it more digestible for some (if that is

what you mean by draining off the whey). Where are you located ?

There is a goat milk finder at http://www.realmilk.com/where2.html

Not all is goat just look for your area.

<<* Where can I find some information describing the symptoms of yeast

> overgrowth and/or yeast die-off? Since our symptoms are not

consistent> and clear (and no diarrea), I'm not sure I'll know how to

tell whether> or not a new food is tolerable. >>

http://pecanbread.com/new/temporarysymptoms.html

http://pecanbread.com/new/yeast.html

Sheila, SCD Feb. 2001, UC 23yrs, PCOD 22yrs

mom of Em & Dan

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Thanks again Sheila,

Yes, I tried the carrot/broth puree -- didn't go over well (they can

taste the broth and now know my sneaky trick). So now it's bribery,

" You can have the muffin after you've eaten your carrots. "

Someone suggested we get enzymes to digest the meat since we've been

vegetarian for so long (and hadn't been eating eggs either). We've

been eating eggs for the last month with no obvious problem (though

I'm chronically constipated--now drinking SCD electrolite drink with

no relief yet), and I had a few morsels of turkey with the broth the

other day with some temporary stomach discomfort, but not enough to be

sure it was the meat. Think I could go ahead without the Protease at

first?

This is part of the challenge I see in introducing new foods after the

intro diet. I'm not sure I'll know what's not being well tolerated

since our symptoms were never that closely associated with what we ate.

I'd like to begin by introducing cooked bananas (we have access to a

lot of them and everyone likes them cooked or raw) and other fruit

right away, but I wonder if this is wise since I think it was an

overconsumption of fruit, especially bananas, that may have led us to

our yeast problems in the first place. I do realize we may need to

wait a month or more to eat any fruit raw, but I'm still unclear if

cooking it makes it completely safe for yeast for all individuals.

I've also read that some people need to hold off on honey, yet we're

really anxious to get to the muffins soon. Is this also due to

individual problems with honey and yeast? I've read so much lately I'm

just getting confused. Does the yeast adapt in some people and change

its diet, feeding on the honey?

Looking at this link to " Beyond the Intro Diet "

http://www.pecanbread.com/new/scdfoods1.html#intro, it seems that we

can't have any muffins or nut flours until stage three. Doesn't it

usually take months to get to this stage? I also don't see any advice

as to when to introduce honey or the yogurt cheese. Without eating

meat, we'll need the dairy for nutrients. I saw somewhere to start

with 1/8 tsp yogurt, but then what? Double it each day if there are no

problems?

Sorry for so many questions. I'm also on the ASD spectrum and am

feeling really overwhelmed, but want to do this right.

Is there someplace where I can download the whole Knowledge Base from

Elaine's website? My internet connection is horribly inconsistent and

slow and it takes forever to research by having to open a page for

each little item. Many thanks!!!

Kay,

Aspergers, Tourettes, Sensory-Integration Disorder, toxicity (boys and

I share symptoms of all of these), SCD-will begin Friday.

>

> Hi Kay (sorry about goofing up your name previously- v. long day :)

>

> <<I made my first broth today (turkey), but my boys were disgusted

> with> the taste of meat (though they only had a sip of the straight

> broth).>>

>

> You could puree the carrots with the broth. That will change the

> flavour and still provide you with all the great nutrients.

>

>

> <<What type of enzymes are recommended to help us digest the meat?>>

>

> You'd need proteases to help digest meat. Do you think you need to

> use enzymes? Any particular symptoms?

>

>

> <<Wouldn't just the broth by itself do this in time?>>

>

> The broth will supply some of the nutrients necessary to heal the

> body which in turn will lead to better digestion and absorption.

>

> <<* Does turkey broth have the same anti-inflammatory properties as

> > chicken broth?>>

>

> turkey broth has some anti - inflammatory properties but they aren't

> the same as chicken broth. Read curative powers at

> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chicken_soup

>

>

> <<* Since I don't have access to the recommended goat's milk, is it

> > nearly as good to drain the whey off of the cow's yogurt?>>

>

> Dripping SCD cow yogurt makes it more digestible for some (if that is

> what you mean by draining off the whey). Where are you located ?

> There is a goat milk finder at http://www.realmilk.com/where2.html

> Not all is goat just look for your area.

>

> <<* Where can I find some information describing the symptoms of yeast

> > overgrowth and/or yeast die-off? Since our symptoms are not

> consistent> and clear (and no diarrea), I'm not sure I'll know how to

> tell whether> or not a new food is tolerable. >>

>

> http://pecanbread.com/new/temporarysymptoms.html

> http://pecanbread.com/new/yeast.html

>

> Sheila, SCD Feb. 2001, UC 23yrs, PCOD 22yrs

> mom of Em & Dan

>

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Hi Kay,

<<Someone suggested we get enzymes to digest the meat since we've been

> vegetarian for so long (and hadn't been eating eggs either). We've

> been eating eggs for the last month with no obvious problem (though

> I'm chronically constipated--now drinking SCD electrolite drink with

> no relief yet),>>

Constipation is fairly common at the beginning of the diet. The body

can swing back and forth between D and C during the healing process.

For constipation see the Constipation protocol Elaine wrote at:

http://www.breakingtheviciouscycle.info/knowledge_base/kb/constipation

..htm

http://www.breakingtheviciouscycle.info/knowledge_base/kb/constipation

_continued.htm

<<and I had a few morsels of turkey with the broth the

> other day with some temporary stomach discomfort, but not enough to

be sure it was the meat. Think I could go ahead without the Protease

at first?>>

What are your bowel symptoms: gas, frequency, dry stool, etc.

<<I'd like to begin by introducing cooked bananas (we have access to a

> lot of them and everyone likes them cooked or raw) and other fruit

> right away, but I wonder if this is wise since I think it was an

> overconsumption of fruit, especially bananas, that may have led us

to our yeast problems in the first place. I do realize we may need to

> wait a month or more to eat any fruit raw, but I'm still unclear if

> cooking it makes it completely safe for yeast for all individuals.>>

Cooking helps with digestibility, but may not make it completely safe

for all.

The best thing to do is try a little raw, ripe banana and see how

bowel symptoms are (any changes) and see if it seems to affect your

yeast. When I was unable to tolerate bananas because of yeast it was

very obvious within minutes. If you are going to have a reaction it

may take longer- especially since you have constipation.

<<I've also read that some people need to hold off on honey, yet we're

> really anxious to get to the muffins soon. Is this also due to

> individual problems with honey and yeast? I've read so much lately

I'm> just getting confused.>>

I had to stop all honey and after a long time wrestling with yeast I

can finally tolerate some occasionally. I make baked goods with

cooked pureed vegetables or fruits. If you like it sweeter than you

can get it with veg & Fruit you can try reduced honey or add a

sweetener like saccharine.

You may be fine with honey, you really won't know until you try a

little. I do suggest yu look at the constipation protocol first

though because if your yeast flares up it may make your constipation

worse.

<<Does the yeast adapt in some people and change

> its diet, feeding on the honey?>>

Seems to, but it depends on the types of yeast you have and the

severity of your overgrowth, state of your immune system etc..

<<Looking at this link to " Beyond the Intro Diet "

> http://www.pecanbread.com/new/scdfoods1.html#intro, it seems that we

> can't have any muffins or nut flours until stage three. Doesn't it

> usually take months to get to this stage?>>

The stages don't correpsond to time they are based on a person rate

of healing and what ***types*** of food they are able to digest

sucessfully. When I write *type* I mean peeled, cooked fruit is one

type and raw fruit is another type. The foods listed are examples.

Since you are dealing with constipation let the Const. Protocol guide

you in the introduction of foods. If after you read it it is still

unclear let me know.

<<I also don't see any advice as to when to introduce honey or the

yogurt cheese.>>

Both are on the intro, that is why they are not mentioned on the BTID

chart (stages chart). You can start with a little at the beginning

and see if they are tolerated. If you haven't tried the yogurt

before this go slow. It is very helpful but can increase die off as

bad microbes die - which in your case may increase Constipation. If

that happens try epsom salt baths and/or activated charcoal to help

get rid of the die off toxins.

<<Without eating

> meat, we'll need the dairy for nutrients. I saw somewhere to start

> with 1/8 tsp yogurt, but then what? Double it each day if there are

no> problems?>>

Correct. : )

<<Is there someplace where I can download the whole Knowledge Base

from Elaine's website? My internet connection is horribly

inconsistent and> slow and it takes forever to research by having to

open a page for> each little item. Many thanks!!!>>

I don't know.

Gay? Mimi?

Sheila, SCD Feb. 2001, UC 23yrs, PCOD 22yrs

mom of Em & Dan

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