Question about PI, Histadelia, and still struggling to make it off intro

[Guest guest]

So ladies, with this PI thing, does it make you unable to digest carbs

and fats? Is it possible to have it and only have an issue with carbs

and not fats? My son is still struggling to make it off the intro

diet. It has been near a month now. We are still super cooking and

pureeing the carrots, he can't even tolerate them sliced and cooked.

We have tried homemade pear sauce, avocado, tomato juice cooked down

into sauce, and ripe banana and all have made the stools loosen back

up. This is with 4 capsules of Houston Zyme Prime digestive enzymes

with each meal!!!! I don't understand how the enzymes could work so

well for me, but not for my son. I am looking at this PI thing, but my

son has no issues digesting fats. Is it possible for him to have PI

and NOT have an issue with fats? There has to be some reason that he

still can't tolerate some of these simple foods like ripe banana,

avocado, etc. I am thinking of leaving the intro

diet/introduction-of-new-foods-phase and just feed simple stage one

and two SCD foods for a bit (no nut butter though). We just need a

break from carrots and squash. Those are the only carbs we have eaten

for a month now.

I am also looking into the Histadelia thing that someone mentioned

after I posted about our problems with folinic acid supplements. It

really makes a lot of sense for us. We have most of the symptoms. And

because we are copper overloaded, our bodies don't have useable

copper. Well, turns out copper is necessary in an enzyme that breaks

down histamine. Go figure! This could be what set up the histadelia in

our family chemistry! We also don't have much useable calcium in our

bodies, which we are trying to remedy using the vit K protocol.

Calcium is an anti-folate so that makes sense too! Does anyone know

anything more about histadelia or where I could find more info?

Much of this biochemistry stuff is starting to line up and make sense,

I just wish I had a degree in it so that I would know what to do next!

K in Dayton, Ohio

Hashimoto's Thyroiditis, Fibro, CFS, yeast/candida, copper overload,

adrenal fatigue (mostly healed!!!)

Kids: son Rhowan 5 yrs old, chronic diarrhea/loose stools,

yeast/candida, ADHD, salicylate intolerance; daughter Willow 6.5 yrs

old, mild GI issues, salicylate intolerance

Started SCD June 2006, went slightly off for awhile in Nov 2006, back

on strict SCD starting May 2007. (Just redid intro the last week of

June 2007 and are struggling to find tolerated foods)

[Guest guest]

Hi Kuykendall,

Pam Ferro, the head of a famous biomedical clinic and the SCD

pioneer, told me that some children need to get treated for

clostridia and parasites. You need to do the 3 day stool test

http://www.gdx.net/home/assessments/cdsa/appguide/

I will call her today and get more info.

Mimi

[Guest guest]

Okay thanks, I'll check out that link.

On an interesting side note, I just came across a reference that

mentioned that people with too much histamine (ie histadelia) often

have chronic diarrhea. Perhaps this could be way his loose stools persist?

K in Dayton, Ohio

Hashimoto's Thyroiditis, Fibro, CFS, yeast/candida, copper overload,

adrenal fatigue(mostly healed!!!)

Kids: son Rhowan 5 yrs old, chronic diarrhea/loose stools,

yeast/candida, ADHD, salicylate intolerance; daughter Willow 6.5 yrs

old, mild GI issues, salicylate intolerance

Started SCD June 2006, went slightly off for awhile in Nov 2006, back

on strict SCD starting May 2007. (Just redid intro the last week of

June 2007 and are struggling to find tolerated foods)

>

> Hi Kuykendall,

>

> Pam Ferro, the head of a famous biomedical clinic and the SCD

> pioneer, told me that some children need to get treated for

> clostridia and parasites. You need to do the 3 day stool test

> http://www.gdx.net/home/assessments/cdsa/appguide/

> I will call her today and get more info.

>

> Mimi

>

[Guest guest]

If it's any consolation, the first two months I

was on SCD, I tolerated exactly 4 (well, five)

foods -- roast beef, roast pork (fat removed),

steamed zucchini (served with butter or cheese),

and soft-boiled eggs with butter. I tolerated

chicken soup only if I didn't put the carrots in

it. In fact, I didn't tolerate carrots at all for

a good six or eight months on the diet.

Fruits -- even ripe banana -- were a problem for

me for a very long time. (Still are, actually --

as much as I love blueberries and strawberries, I

can't have them more than a couple times a week,

and it's best to separate them by at least a day.

Ripe bananas I can now do daily if I choose.)

— Marilyn

New Orleans, Louisiana, USA

Undiagnosed IBS since 1976, SCD since 2001

Darn Good SCD Cook

No Human Children

Shadow & Sunny Longhair Dachshund

[Guest guest]

Thanks so much for sharing that Marilyn. So it did get better though?

How did you get by on so little carbs? I guess I should just tough it

out and stick with our carrots and squash? I'm thinking of maybe

trying some cheese since my son is not autistic and we seem to do okay

with cow milk yogurt. Maybe adding some cheddar cheese would be a nice

change of pace for us! I'm just getting so bored in the kitchen! I

mean, there are only so many ways to prepare carrots and squash,

especially since they have to be extremely well cooked and pureed in

order for my son to tolerate them. I dream of the day when I can start

experimenting with all the yummy foods allowed on SCD and try some of

the cookbooks out there.

K in Dayton, Ohio

Hashimoto's Thyroiditis, Fibro, CFS, yeast/candida, copper overload,

adrenal fatigue(mostly healed!!!)

Kids: son Rhowan 5 yrs old, chronic diarrhea/loose stools,

yeast/candida, ADHD, salicylate intolerance; daughter Willow 6.5 yrs

old, mild GI issues, salicylate intolerance

Started SCD June 2006, went slightly off for awhile in Nov 2006, back

on strict SCD starting May 2007. (Just redid intro the last week of

June 2007 and are struggling to find tolerated foods)

>

>

>

>

> If it's any consolation, the first two months I

> was on SCD, I tolerated exactly 4 (well, five)

> foods -- roast beef, roast pork (fat removed),

> steamed zucchini (served with butter or cheese),

> and soft-boiled eggs with butter. I tolerated

> chicken soup only if I didn't put the carrots in

> it. In fact, I didn't tolerate carrots at all for

> a good six or eight months on the diet.

>

> Fruits -- even ripe banana -- were a problem for

> me for a very long time. (Still are, actually --

> as much as I love blueberries and strawberries, I

> can't have them more than a couple times a week,

> and it's best to separate them by at least a day.

> Ripe bananas I can now do daily if I choose.)

>

>

>

> — Marilyn

> New Orleans, Louisiana, USA

> Undiagnosed IBS since 1976, SCD since 2001

> Darn Good SCD Cook

> No Human Children

> Shadow & Sunny Longhair Dachshund

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Hi

I have particular interest in cases where there appears to be

problems with carb digestion, because yours truly has been suffering

from that affliction for years. I now have the condition under

control. So let's go back and revisit some of your son's issues, so

I can get up to speed on your son's case. It's another long post,

sorry 'bout that.

Here is one red flag: You had stated that you were " …using the vit K

protocol. " If you are talking about Tamaro's Vitamin K

protocol, that is contraindicated at this point in time. Even

herself has said that one should wait after a year of

healing on the SCD before attempting her protocol. The VSL#3

product, which is part of the Vit K protocol, is definitely not

recommended due to its inclusion of the bifidus strain of bacteria.

Could you list out what supplements you are currently taking? I am

aware that your son is taking " 4 capsules of Houston Zyme Prime

digestive enzymes with each meal! " Are there any other supplements

that he is currently taking? Please provide the name and dose of

each supp and list out any other medical interventions that apply to

your son's case.

Now let's focus on the food issues. I know that you have

previously " tried homemade pear sauce, avocado, tomato juice cooked

down into sauce, and ripe banana and all have made the stools loosen

back up. " I tend towards loose stools also, which are due to

multiple problems, but I only wanted to discuss them if they appeared

to be relevant to your son's condition. That's why I would like you

to supply me with more info. Okay, it looks as if the only foods

that you have discovered that keep the diarrhea at bay are carrots,

which are super cooked and pureed, as well as squash. What kinds of

squash is he able to tolerate? For instance, is he able to tolerate

butternut squash, zucchini, or crooked-neck squash? Could you be

more specific? And are these also peeled, deseeded, super-cooked and

pureed? It's important to know precisely what type of squash as well

as the processing method. Regarding the general category of squash,

I, for instance, cannot tolerate winter squash, but have no problems

with summer squash.

How much carrot and squash is he able to tolerate during each meal?

Could you please supply me with a list of foods that make up a

typical day's meal? I think I remember you mentioning yoghurt in

another post. Is your son able to tolerate yoghurt? If so, is it

cow or goat yoghurt. How much can he tolerate? What are the strains

that you use?

You had made the statement " my son has no issues digesting fats. " Is

this a conclusion that your doctor came to, or is this based on your

own observations? The reason that I ask this question, is because I

thought that I was only having issues with carbs, but then my GI

requested a three day stool test, and the stools contained abnormal

levels of fat. I never observed oil or floating stools, so I was a

bit surprised to find that out! The cause of the fat malabsorption

is still under investigation.

I have some other questions for you that would be really helpful in

trying to understand your son's case. When he experiences the loose

stools, does he also experience rapid transit times? How long is the

time between BMs? I have problems with loose stools that are

controlled with enzymes. But I do not have problems with rapid

transit. The BMs come around like clockwork, usually two separate

BMs in the morning.

Do you observe undigested material in the stool?

All of these questions are not only useful to me, but the answers

will provide useful information for your son's doctor(s) as well.

When I went to visit my doctors, I would come armed with a list of

observations regarding my food intake and my reactions towards the

foods. Good doctors will take the time to read through the list, as

long as the descriptions are concise and to the point.

Also, has your child been scoped and/or biopsied yet? I had no clue

that I was suffering from esophagitis until I went through an

endoscopy. And this was while I was on the SCD. I was later able to

cure the esophagitis through further food restrictions.

I couldn't have recovered as much as I have without the indispensable

help of my GI doc and the tests that he performed. And data from the

medical tests that are performed will provide you with further

insights into your son's condition, and will definitely help you

further refine and re-establish your son's health baseline. What

kind of tests have you had previously performed on your son? I

notice already that you've had your son's copper levels tested and

that doesn't " have much useable calcium " in his body.

Who came up with the " yeast/candida " diagnosis for your son? Why are

these conditions suspected?

Thank you in advance for answering these questions. We'll try our

hardest to get to the bottom of his problems!

- Sally G.

SCD since March 2003, Celiac Disease, possible soy enteropathy, SBBO,

Fat Malabsorption