Question about dark circles under eyes.

[Guest guest]

Hello all!

My daughter used to have dark circles under her eyes and that improved with

SCD. In the last week I have noticed that the dark circles came back but now

they look " red " . Has anybody else seen this? She's eating pretty much the same

basic SCD and I haven't used anything new.

This worries me a little since she has been acting as if she were having

die-off or a regression. She has been SCD since Feb.

Can someone help? Thanks.

Ximena

---------------------------------

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[Guest guest]

Hi, Ximena,

Since nothing is really different I would wait it out and see if this

is just another round of die-off. Maybe the red circles are from

histamines being release from the dying bacteria.

Since there was only one post in the archives about red circles under

the eyes (in a dicussion of possible phenol sensitivity) I didn't

learn much there. But I Googled " red circles under the eyes " and

found they are caused by histamines and that there are many

possibilites for the histamine reaction.

I have always relied on SCD to take care of this type of thing given

time. I have never limited 's intake of high phenol foods. He

does get a lot of B6 in his Kirkman multi-vitamin. B-6 helps in

metabolizing histamines.

But some parents see such bad reactions from high phenol foods that

they pull them from the diet. Or they take an enzyme product called

No-Phenol from http://houstonni.com/products/

or Phenol assist from

http://www.kirkmanlabs.com/products/enzymes/phenol/phenol_bp835.html

I hope you get some other replies from those who have actually dealt

with this problem.

mom to -12

SCD 4/23/04

[Guest guest]

Ximena,

My son has horrible reactions to phenols. He is not " allergic " to milk (via

skim tests) but has typical allergy symptoms from milk of any kind. The red

circles are definitely can be from allergies. Being highly sensitive to phenols

give my son horrendous behavioral symptoms, so I had to get some of that

no-phenol for him. His diet is down to almost nothing without the phenols,

that's why we had to try it. I'm convinced he probably has many " delayed "

allergy reactions that would only test positive with the expensive IgG blood

tests. I really think leaky gut is the culprit in food allergies and phenol

sensitivity. It seems they all work against each other cynergisticially. I'm

just a newer SCDer, but have dealt with food allergies and sensitivities all my

life.

Bonita

Re: Question about dark circles under eyes.

Hi, Ximena,

Since nothing is really different I would wait it out and see if this

is just another round of die-off. Maybe the red circles are from

histamines being release from the dying bacteria.

Since there was only one post in the archives about red circles under

the eyes (in a dicussion of possible phenol sensitivity) I didn't

learn much there. But I Googled " red circles under the eyes " and

found they are caused by histamines and that there are many

possibilites for the histamine reaction.

I have always relied on SCD to take care of this type of thing given

time. I have never limited 's intake of high phenol foods. He

does get a lot of B6 in his Kirkman multi-vitamin. B-6 helps in

metabolizing histamines.

But some parents see such bad reactions from high phenol foods that

they pull them from the diet. Or they take an enzyme product called

No-Phenol from http://houstonni.com/products/

or Phenol assist from

http://www.kirkmanlabs.com/products/enzymes/phenol/phenol_bp835.html

I hope you get some other replies from those who have actually dealt

with this problem.

mom to -12

SCD 4/23/04

[Guest guest]

Thank you and Bonita for your replies. I really don't know much about

phenols and would like to start educating myself if my daughter is now dealing

with that too. Could you tell me what kind of behavioral symptoms to look for?

Which kind of foods are to be limited?

Where can I find information about it?

Thanks again, your help is very appreciated.

Ximena

Bonita Todd wrote:

Ximena,

My son has horrible reactions to phenols. He is not " allergic " to milk (via skim

tests) but has typical allergy symptoms from milk of any kind. The red circles

are definitely can be from allergies. Being highly sensitive to phenols give my

son horrendous behavioral symptoms, so I had to get some of that no-phenol for

him. His diet is down to almost nothing without the phenols, that's why we had

to try it. I'm convinced he probably has many " delayed " allergy reactions that

would only test positive with the expensive IgG blood tests. I really think

leaky gut is the culprit in food allergies and phenol sensitivity. It seems they

all work against each other cynergisticially. I'm just a newer SCDer, but have

dealt with food allergies and sensitivities all my life.

Bonita

Re: Question about dark circles under eyes.

Hi, Ximena,

Since nothing is really different I would wait it out and see if this

is just another round of die-off. Maybe the red circles are from

histamines being release from the dying bacteria.

Since there was only one post in the archives about red circles under

the eyes (in a dicussion of possible phenol sensitivity) I didn't

learn much there. But I Googled " red circles under the eyes " and

found they are caused by histamines and that there are many

possibilites for the histamine reaction.

I have always relied on SCD to take care of this type of thing given

time. I have never limited 's intake of high phenol foods. He

does get a lot of B6 in his Kirkman multi-vitamin. B-6 helps in

metabolizing histamines.

But some parents see such bad reactions from high phenol foods that

they pull them from the diet. Or they take an enzyme product called

No-Phenol from http://houstonni.com/products/

or Phenol assist from

http://www.kirkmanlabs.com/products/enzymes/phenol/phenol_bp835.html

I hope you get some other replies from those who have actually dealt

with this problem.

mom to -12

SCD 4/23/04

[Guest guest]

Which kind of foods are to be limited?

> Where can I find information about it?

Hi, Ximena,

Here's a good link about phenols. The second link is a list of foods

according to amount of phenols.

http://www.danasview.net/phenol.htm

http://users.bigpond.net.au/allergydietitian/fi/sal.html

mom to -12

SCD 4/23/04

[Guest guest]

Thank you for the information. After reading this, I don't have much left

to feed my child. What to do? Is it necessary to cut completely with the foods

or just to limite them?

I'm afraid she won't have much carbs in her diet. She tolerates just a few

foods and most of them are high in salicylates. What options do we have?

Sorry for all the questions, but this is just too much. It seems to me that

just about everything is bad in one way or the other... I'm a little

frustrated...

Thank God I have you all to give me advice... THANKS!

Ximena

julie46250 wrote:

Which kind of foods are to be limited?

> Where can I find information about it?

Hi, Ximena,

Here's a good link about phenols. The second link is a list of foods

according to amount of phenols.

http://www.danasview.net/phenol.htm

http://users.bigpond.net.au/allergydietitian/fi/sal.html

mom to -12

SCD 4/23/04

---------------------------------

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[Guest guest]

Ximena,

sorry so late on the response. i had surgery on my wrist yesterday morning and

the numbing pain shot wore off earlier today, so i am typing this one handed

(hence no caps). my journey with my 8 y/o Asperger's, ADHD, OCD, Tourette's,

dyslexic son has been a long one of gradual removals of artificials, sugars,

then milk and then phenols. i knew starches caused some kind of problem but

didn't understand the true complexity of the why, hows and far reaching results

until i discovered scd. scd seemed to be my only hope of survival for my son

long term. when my mother died last year of heart failure and lung

complications, she had been so weak and malnutritioned due to severe food

allergies, intolerances and horrible gut problems which left her so weak

already. i really wish i had known about this sooner.

my son appeared to have horrible allergies - on perscription allergy meds since

he was 1 1/2 y/o. 3 months ago he finally went through skin tests and he is only

allergic to dust mites (terribly), cats, peanuts and almonds (really a drag for

SCD). it seems to have been all those intolerances and not true food allergies

that caused so much of his " allergy " symptoms. when I removed milk completely,

his runny nose went away although he still has itchy nose some. milk (due to

ASD and the leaky gut and the opiate effect) made his more bizzare autistic

behavior so bad. he would get totally out of control so easy. casein made him

angry and more physically challenging and almost like he was high.

Then I really noticed the phenol problems. the meats were not a problem, just

couldn't put anything on or in them to make them taste good. He could only have

a very couple of veggies, bananas, pearsauce, no spices, no other fruits, etc.

couldn't tolerate olive oil, coconut oil,etc. doing SCD so limited was almost

impossible. he couldn't take any of the supplement vitamins or fish oils due to

his high sensitivity. Salicylate sensitivity makes my son extremely hyper,

oppositional to authority, difficlt to deal with, overstimulates VERY easily and

gives him HORRIBLE tics. I had no choice and have started the No-Phenol and it

seems to be helping. i have my son on a tiny consistent daily dose of

thoroughly dripped yogurt in hopes of healing his gut so he can eventually

tolerate many more foods. i really didn't want him to take the no-phenol, but

had no choice.

Through all my interventions I have been able to get him off all his meds

(stimulant for ADHD, another for tics, appetite stimulant to counter-act

stimulant med causing such weight loss and zoloft for the anxiety and stress of

Asperger's and other meds) and we are still only a few months into SCD. It has

been a horribly difficult road and task, but it really does get better. when he

has those bad days and cloudy mind again, i have to remind myself of how far

we've come so far and that we are still at the beginning of his healing journey.

hope this helps. be glad to answer any specific questions if i can. hope julie

was able to give you enough info on the phenols. i've got a few web sites saved

somewhere also if you still need them.

bonita

Re: Question about dark circles under eyes.

Hi, Ximena,

Since nothing is really different I would wait it out and see if this

is just another round of die-off. Maybe the red circles are from

histamines being release from the dying bacteria.

Since there was only one post in the archives about red circles under

the eyes (in a dicussion of possible phenol sensitivity) I didn't

learn much there. But I Googled " red circles under the eyes " and

found they are caused by histamines and that there are many

possibilites for the histamine reaction.

I have always relied on SCD to take care of this type of thing given

time. I have never limited 's intake of high phenol foods. He

does get a lot of B6 in his Kirkman multi-vitamin. B-6 helps in

metabolizing histamines.

But some parents see such bad reactions from high phenol foods that

they pull them from the diet. Or they take an enzyme product called

No-Phenol from http://houstonni.com/products/

or Phenol assist from

http://www.kirkmanlabs.com/products/enzymes/phenol/phenol_bp835.html

I hope you get some other replies from those who have actually dealt

with this problem.

mom to -12

SCD 4/23/04

[Guest guest]

>

> Thank you for the information. After reading this, I don't

have much left to feed my child. What to do? Is it necessary to cut

completely with the foods or just to limite them?

> I'm afraid she won't have much carbs in her diet. She tolerates

just a few foods and most of them are high in salicylates. What

options do we have?

Ximena,

Well, first of all this might just be another round of die-off and

will get better. I remember that you posted that you haven't added

any new foods lately (so why a reaction now?)and your dd had been

doing well. So maybe the problem will stop on its own. I didn't

want to pull any of the early foods from and just waited things

out and progressed slowly. I know not everyone can do that.

Bonita's son had horrible reactions to phenols and she had to pull

foods as well as use No-Phenol. Check her latest post for the good

news. Some parents find that when they add the No-Phenol or Phenol

Assist, they do not have to pull foods.

mom to -12

SCD 4/23/04

[Guest guest]

Thank you Bonita for sharing your experience. I would like to know as much as I

can to make the right decisions for . She's been on the diet for 6 months

but still has loose stools sometimes and doesn't tolerate new foods easily. I

believe the diet IS working, it's been a blessing for us but the real problem is

that she still puts everything in her mouth and what's worse, she EATS terrible

things like paint or dirt and that always makes her to regress in the healing

process. I stay at home to take care of her but that's not enough, she always

finds a way to eat bad stuff. Her diet is very limited but I think I'll start

observing her reaction with each food for a couple days at a time and that way

I'll now what's really affecting her. She loves zucchini and avocado and that's

going to be something difficult to pull but I'll do it if necessary.

I've been reading a lot about phenols, but the list of foods high in

salicylates confuses me a little. I saw three different versions. Do you have a

clear one I can use?

Thank you for your help. I hope you recover soon from your surgery:)

Ximena

---------------------------------

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[Guest guest]

Bonita,

Thank you for your descriptive post yesterday about phenols. That is

really helping me put together the puzzle as to why SCD hasn't been

more successful with my husband. We began in April. We saw immediate

results when we got rid of milk, bread and sugar... he stopped being

in a brainfog almost every day. But since June, something has not

been right with him. He is exhausted 80% of the time. Comes home from

his full-time job with no energy.

Thanks to what you said about phenol, I have spent the past day

reading up on it. I believe it explains his symptoms and why he has

been worse these months. He has been making almond milk and drinking

it A LOT... in addition to eating veggies, fruits and spices that he

NEVER ate a year ago that we see are high in phenols.

I am worried about what he can eat now. He is 25 years old, active

social and work life. SCD has been exclusive enough... but now, no

phenol and scd? whew! I just hope we can get enough nutrition in him!

He is 6 foot 4 but only weighs about 135. Extremely skinny and hasnt

gained any weight on SCD. He doesnt tolerate the multi-vitamins

because of citrus bioflavanoids... I am still trying to find a multi

without bioflavanoids. I have just bought no-fenol... so I hope that

can help! He was really excited that there might be a supplement he

can take so that he can eat phenols.

well, i will read through past posts to get more ideas on reduced-

phenol protocol.

thanks again!

-kelly

since april 2007

[Guest guest]

I just read a brilliant post from a year ago on pecanbread that

warned about trying to follow another protocol in addition to SCD.

So, I think we will just continue with the SCD levels and avoid foods

that we have definitely seen him react to. Hopefully there will be

enough gut healing soon so he can eat the high phenol things he has

been reacting to again.

-

[Guest guest]

Hi, ,

I don't believe anyone here would think you are following another

protocol to give your husband No-Phenol to help him deal with the high-

phenol foods you have seen him react to. It is on the list of legal

supplements. These digestive enzymes are a blessing to many. If you

use them, start slowly with small amounts. I understand the company

that makes them is very helpful over the phone if you need advice.

mom to -12

SCD 4/23/04

[Guest guest]

hi kelly,

a couple of things re: phenols...

try introducing kirkmans phenol assist to help the body better

tolerate foods that have phenols. i cant tolerate tomato at all (and

some other foods) - i break out in hives - and since introducing the

enzymes i have only a very mild reaction. also you could try adding

a couple of supps to help... part of not being able to tolerate the

phenols / sals is that the bodies detoxification pathways are not

working efficiently. you can add epsom salt baths to help this

process along and also give glycine. the other thing that was really

amazing around her is milk thistle - to support the liver - my

daughter was getting orange skin from eating too much carrot /

pumpkin and when i added the milk thistle it improved beyond

belief... all of these reactions are phenols and all of these

suggestions have been tried by many. if you like i can email you a

great paper i read on phenols written by the moderator of another

diet group im on - she and al 3 of her kids have huge issues with

phenols and she has dedicated alot of time to finding out more and

wrote about her experiences to share with others - email me off group

if you want me to forward it?

should say - better do you own research as to if all of the above

things are legal (although im pretty sure they are). hope something

helps you!

roweena x

mum to audrey 4yrs

scd since july 2006

sydney, australia

Re: Question about dark circles under eyes.

Posted by: " Ottesen " kosovokelly@... kosovo_kelly

Mon Aug 13, 2007 3:07 am (PST)

I just read a brilliant post from a year ago on pecanbread that

warned about trying to follow another protocol in addition to SCD.

So, I think we will just continue with the SCD levels and avoid foods

that we have definitely seen him react to. Hopefully there will be

enough gut healing soon so he can eat the high phenol things he has

been reacting to again.

-

[Guest guest]

pwople come to scd with different levels of physical difficulties and food

intolerances. We all have to work around them or through them. not everyone on

scd has trouble with phenols, but some of us do and we have to work a little

harder to get to the complete healing. don't think you are doing wrong by

addressing the phenols situation. i've been through all those mental exercises

already and punished myself for feeling that way. now, we are getting through it

with no-phenol help and a carefully planned diet.

Bonita

Re: Question about dark circles under eyes.

I just read a brilliant post from a year ago on pecanbread that

warned about trying to follow another protocol in addition to SCD.

So, I think we will just continue with the SCD levels and avoid foods

that we have definitely seen him react to. Hopefully there will be

enough gut healing soon so he can eat the high phenol things he has

been reacting to again.

-